I love that the theory that Ryder was never meant to be a traitor has gained so much traction. He was too cool to switch sides and every mission he did was specifically to benefit GSF. Him dying in the Green Sabre fighting alongside Sweet should have been canon. Would've shown his dedication to his friends and highlight how treacherous Big Smoke really is.
That's exactly what we think as well! Do we really have to consider Ryder a traitor just because it is in the final version shown in a rather poor way..
I don’t consider him a traitor. One of my fave characters but this man is definitely set up by smoke and definitely tenpenny. His missions were always to benefit the grove and I think they just forced him that’s why he was on the water too much at some point. He didn’t want to sell out but didn’t want to die either.
That's right! He was added there forcefully in order to introduce their new concept of Ryder. If you are interested in this character, we encourage you to watch this video 🙂 -> ua-cam.com/video/n4qKs9WB7no/v-deo.html
The "Orange grove for life" line can be heard in the game. Most recently, I noticed it being uttered when walking up to some Rifas in San Fierro. They were talking about who this punk (CJ) is and when pressing reply, he replied with, you guessed it, "Orange Grove for life, [bitch?].
@@gaminginvestigators you can also trigger that by going to ballas and them asking you "Which hood you from fool" and cj answers if you press Y ( Yes ) "Orange gsf"
It was always weird how despite being the main "rival" gang, there's no actual leader mentioned among the Ballas. I'm sure there had to be one before Big Smoke came along. Only person I remember is Kilo Trey or whatever his name was and that was it.
Well, the thing with the street gangs like these is a bit different than in terms of Cosa Nostra for instance 😉 The Italian Mafia has a Don and few Captains (of course there's an Underboss, Consigliere, and so on) while some street gangs have a leader and few OGs, it is a bit similar in terms of the structure 😃
@@cjvaye99 Kane was described as Front Yard Ballas royalty, so he may of been leader of them. I mean technically Sweet and CJ are OG Grove leaders but then there have to be leaders for the other sets. Temple and Seville should have their own leaders. So In short, Kilo Trays, Rollin Heights and Temple drive I’m sure had their own set leaders. I’ll assume Little weasel became leader of the Kilo Trays set when he turned over from the Grove as he was the target to flush out and being protected over in Glen Park, which is Kilo Trays territory.
You're welcome, my man! 😃 Judging by the other comments, it looks like the developers wanted to create not only the Crips vs Bloods thread but also some internal conflict between two Crip factions.
I really like how well thought out & presented your videos are I can tell a lot of work & research has gone intoo them, unlike some other channels that discuss GTA lore 😂😁
I must’ve had a different version of the game when it first came out because I remember hearing CJ saying he was from Orange Grove families. This also supports your theory about the families being based off of the Hoovers. Great upload.
this was quite an interesting breakdown. ive been watching these at work while on my lunch break over the last month or so. very informative, and well put together. also, GTA Defective Edition. that made me laugh way harder than it should have.
I hope who ever at R* that had the idea to change the gang colour from orange to green got a nice cash bonus. Orange is a very striking and over powering colour when it's the majority colour and hard to get decent shades of.
Yeah, we also think that changing the color from orange to green was a good idea 🙂 This "darker" color seems to fit the gang much more, at least from our point of view 😃
@@gaminginvestigators also GTA never have "real" gang colors and since San andreas is based in Los angeles and orange relate to the Hoovers in LA. also fitting that the hoovers call eachother groove
Bro you straight up read my mind because I was looking for this video the other day and I could not find it. I like your content because you go very in depth with all the facts and details. It's a miracle you Uploaded this today because I have so many questions that need answers
@@gaminginvestigators keep up the great content 👏 If you ever have the chance to find anything on Las Brujas by area 69 I'd love to watch it. So far I can't find nothing other than some sort of curse. Just an idea!
Real life gang sets can be seen wearing different colors. So Blood sets wear green. Grape street clips wear purple. So it could be possible for orange Grove to wear a different color especially after Families split. I would think it would be confusing for some players. Grove street shares many similarities with Hoover Criminals gang. That could be why they wore Orange originally. The OG Loc prison release was almost 1 for 1 shot of OG Bobby Johnson's release from prison in the movie South Central.
And all gta games take many inspirations from movies too... Like how theres 2 NPCs from boyz n the hood. You can see trey in his outfit from the BBQ at the beginning of the movie and theres a guy who looks like Ricky in his football jacket from the crenshaw Mac 10 scene.
Yeah, we also noticed that detail. It looks like Rockstar North thought about adding three more related to each other Los Santos gangs before creating Los Santos Vagos and Varrio Los Aztecas. 🤔 Moreover, you're totally right about OG Loc's appearance. It is a cool reference to South Central (great movie btw).
@@demonjmh The families are based off of the Crips. And Ballas are based off the Bloods. Rockstar confirmed it. And also both gangs protagonist are real life Crips such as CJ and Franklin.
@@TheBlacGhost2093 rockstar never confirmed that its why its a debate but the families gang sign looks closer to the original blood symbol and the ballas looks closer to the traditional C most crips throw upj
Interesting video. I think the Flats were originally supposed to be the Ballas’ most powerful faction, and after Smoke’s takeover he would theoretically merge the Ballas sets together. I guess Rockstar scrapped that idea because they liked the other names better. As for OGF, it’s possible that in the GSF’s early years, they used this name, and it’s colour. When I use the OGF mod, I like using it late in the story, so it would seem as if the Families choose to change their attire to it’s supposedly original form to honour their fallen because of Smoke and Ryder’s betrayal and honour those who were also incarcerated. As for Ryder…. Story wise, based on the game’s current plot, his betrayal can be interpreted to various ways - he was just doing what he saw fit to survive and played both sides, or the drugs clouded his judgment. Also, I think Ryder always hated CJ, even after he proved himself to the gang, out of jealousy. Ryder’s self serving nature is also shown in “Reuniting the Families”, where he originally deliberately abandoned Sweet and Carl. Yes, he and Smoke returned, but it’s possible that it was under C.R.A.S.H’s orders. Also the reason why Carl didn’t express his rage against Ryder originally is, story wise, it’s possible his betrayal didn’t shock him as much, or was more surprised of Smoke’s betrayal because of his friendly behaviour. Because their betrayal had such devastating consequences, CJ later on expressed considerable anger toward Ryder, but it doesn’t seem like he didn’t realise Ryder’s betrayal beforehand. He wasn’t mentioned in “King in Exile” because he wasn’t a major influence in the crack epidemic along with Smoke and Tenpenny’s alliance. That’s my interpretation based on the story.
Thank you so much for your support, Just! 🤘 And yeah, the possibility of the Flats being the fifth Ballas faction is worth considering. But it's really hard to find some answers whether it was like it or not :/ In terms of OGF, it's a bit of shame that so much information got thrown into the bin 😦 As for Ryder, yeah, it is debatable how to perceive his fate in this game. The majority of people would say he's a traitor, but on the other hand, there are various reasons proving them wrong.. Thanks for the comment!
One thing that would have been cool is if you beat the whole game you unlock everything including beta character models they took out an add all of the models so you see the fat gsf member with a hoodie an another thing that could have been cool tht when u beat the whole game you can take over Aztecas turf an they become your allies an wear green an blue that would be cool if you understand what I’m saying
I have a lore for the fictional street gang I created. Thanks to LS Central: the Brown Town Locos. A Mexican, Central American and Chelonian street gang. Who originated from those third world Latin American nations who moved to LS. They were originally vigilante gangs who didn’t wanted to be pushed into the hard gang life by the Aztecas and Vagos. However after 1992, the Brown Town Locos thought of expanding to San Fierro after the Rifa were weakened. But the Tezcas took over the Riga’s turf. And decided to move to Las Venturas or Silver Valley after the collapse of 94. Where Las Venturas is an open opportunity. It’s a pain but also a blessing in disguise as well. Because the casino city has gone bankrupt during that decade but they were opening themselves to the meth drug business when Gus Fring; owner of pollos hermanos was expanding business into San Andreas outside of Redemption state. The state which houses the lands of red dead redemption games. As well as San Andreas declaring to be an independent republic from the USA. Brings in opportunity. And thus expand their gang business from street to cartel.
Yeah! OGF = Original Grove Family, OGS = Original Grove Street. This is like we've reenacted a Rockstar North Meeting and got the minutes. It works for me!
OG Loc had a mustache originally? God damn, i never knew that. Now it makes sense to me why Carl would mention "Hey, i like a nice mustache, myself" after finding out Loc's prison affair was a man.
My head canon is that the subset of Families that is from Grove Street was originally Orange Grove Families, in universe I mean. They then joined the larger Families gang and adopted green. But this would have been years before the events of the game. Likely even before CJ and Sweet were part of it.
In real life this happened alot actually, for example the bounty hunter bloods were green jackets and the piru bloods were the piru street boys before joining the bloods. Orange Grove probably joined the families and became the Grove street family.
cool head canon! there’s videos that go way in depth about the start of most gangs in SA. piece together in game content and some cut material from SA and you’ll find that the Orange Grove Families is the original set in the Families street gang. OGF started on Grove Street repping the colors orange, black, and green. OGF members put on the neighboring kids/teens that lived in Ganton Courts (the blue projects left of Grove Street). OGF spread out to the surrounding neighborhoods of Idlewood, Willowfield, and Playa Del Seville. OGF had Idlewood on lock being that it was right across the tracks, the same couldn’t be said for Playa Del Seville. The Families members there wanted their own identity, as they felt distant from the Grove and the other neighborhoods banging OGF, so they started the Seville Boulevard subset. SBF quickly spread their influence into Willowfield, Willowfield being the bigger neighborhood with kids who knew the other children who lived in the Seville Projects. The kids in Willowfield started claiming SBF and repped the color dark green and orange alongside their Seville Boulevard kin who initially started the dark green trend. OGF members get older (and drug addicted due to crack epidemic) and The Johnson Brothers are making a name for themselves in the streets (all 3 brothers are OGF members put on by Grove OGs). The Temple Drive Families started a bit later but were basically influenced by the growing popularity of the Families gang and wanted to join the thug lifestyle. They were also facing heat from the Kilo Tray Ballas and Los Santos Vagos coming into their neighborhoods punking them out so they were put on by young OGF members who moved into Temple from Ganton. In correlation with Seville, Temple was also distant from the Grove and they also wanted their own identity. They began the Temple Drive Families subset and posted up in not only Temple, but the neighboring areas of Market and Vinewood. By the time TDF had been fully established as their own subset of the Families, the OGF OGs had succumbed to the crack epidemic and became washed up and drugged out. The Families split for the first time after OGF fell off. Sweet Johnson now being a newly turned Original Gangster of OGF, decides to reunite all sets of the Families under the sole color green. The orange flag is dropped and Orange Grove Street Families is now shortened to Grove Street Families. You can see the old OGF members still walk around the hood. They wear orange hoodies and black bucket hats with orange chucks. CJ can also still rock the OGSF back tattoo and the Rimmers Orange Hoodie.
The flats gang. The former gang that would become the Ballas. Orange grove families are the oldest gang in Los Santos and they separate and evolve the gang colors from orange to various shades of green. And one branch would become the grove street families. North and south grove street families. The north grove street which CJ and sweet control survive past 2004 from outsider gang influence. The south grove street got taken over by the Ballas and thus the grove street of gta v Los santos become Ballas turf. Generally the Families gang. One would form temple drive. Seville boulevard. Forum drive families and chamberlain gangsters families. Carson avenue fam. Davis neighborhood fam.
Interesting backstory theory! Unfortunately, Grove Street Families from GTA San Andreas is not related to Grove Street Families from GTA V so that would have to be changed for sure 😉
@@gaminginvestigators I thought maybe that there’s two grove street cul de sacs. One with a bridge over it and east of downtown and the other not having a bridge over it. Located in the south of downtown.
@@Originalchili different “universes” or different street grids. I wished they merged the stories of gta San Andreas and gta v as one. Two grove streets; one with the bridge above it stayed families turf. The other grove street without the bridge turned into Ballas turf as revenge or karma for destroying the Ballas sets in 1992 or post gta San Andreas. Maybe CJ and sweet left the hood for the rich life
Sometimes it makes me sad when i get to know cut content from games. One time its for the better but the other time not so much. It makes you think the game was supposed to be bigger and better.
Yeah, we feel exactly the same :/ It's awesome to discover new things being cut/unused in the game but at the same time, you shed a tear because it wasn't implemented after all. 🙁
I would have loved if they had did a buffer or in between before 6 like San Andreas in the mid to late 80's like the GTA stories to see how the Grove fell on hard times and how the other gangs came to be in the area
Yeah, GTA San Andreas Stories would be highly appreciated.. Unfortunately, Rockstar decided to move on with GTA 4, leaving us only with The Introduction movie :/
@@gaminginvestigators I'm guessing that GTA San Andreas is probably meant to take place between San Andreas and vice city like somewhere after cj left, or perhaps even before vice city stories took place. Makes me wonder if you're also meant to play as another gsf member so that you can really see the backstory of the gsf
Not only is san andreas the best gta game imo, it has such a rich and interesting history and development cycle. Been really enjoying watching your gta content recently, you really do your homework, this channel deserves to be much bigger!
OGF should’ve been the hoovas if we being honest and stayed another set of the crips and then OGF (hoovas) beef with everyone like real life but thanks for the info
I still think some inclusion of other families in san andreas like the orange grove families would have been cool, they wouldn't have even had to do much beyond just including them at points in the story where one faction of grove street is beefing with another. It would have tied a lot of the concept artwork together where you have members of the orange grove families wearing orange or riding in an orange car.
Now the real question is, was GSF ever orange colored? The name was orange grove for sure but was the color orange too? Or it was always shades of green as shown in all of the released screenshots?
Off topic, but in saints row, the gang you were in was originally green, then they changed it to purple, I'm guessing because it was close to Grove street from gta
39 cents channel rules! 🤘 They have great cosplay in some missions, although they should stick more to the original scenario, like not changing the voice lines, that's our little issue there 😅
I dunno if it had something to do with it, but there are numerous real life Flats gangs in Los Angeles, namely the Primera and Cuatro Flats in Boyle Heights, Primera Flats 23 in South Central, and the Tortilla Flats from Compton. Maybe the developers didn’t want any issues with real gangs?
Orange grove families was the name of the hood, grove st was not only the st they lived on but their particular set within orange grove. A group within a group if u will
@@gaminginvestigators so there are the families, they wear green. All the families not just grove. Then there is orange grove which is the general area that they "the orange grove families" control. Then there is grove st. Which is one street of the orange grove neighborhood. The grove st families which sweet is the leader of. Which is all the guys that grew up on grove st. Basically the families are like the crips or bloods it isnt just one gang. Which is also why they had to be on the lookout "not everyone wearing green os an ally" cuz the other families started beefing with grove st.
Orange Grove isn’t the name of the neighborhood. The name of the neighborhood is Ganton. Orange Grove Street Families is the original set in the Families street gang. They had orange in the name cuz that was the color they rep, along with green and black and sometimes red. Rimmers colors, a sports team in SA. Sweet Started GSF when OGF OG’s fell off due to the crack epidemic. They became drugged out and you can see them walking the streets with Black bucket Hats, orange rimmer hoodies with #12 on them, and orange chucks. R* just basically did a last minute content cut on the color and in depth OGF backstory for various reasons.
piece together in game content and some cut material from SA and you’ll find that the Orange Grove Families is the original set in the Families street gang. OGF started on Grove Street repping the colors orange, black, and green. OGF members put on the neighboring kids/teens that lived in Ganton Courts (the blue projects left of Grove Street). OGF spread out to the surrounding neighborhoods of Idlewood, Willowfield, and Playa Del Seville. OGF had Idlewood on lock being that it was right across the tracks, the same couldn’t be said for Playa Del Seville. The Families members there wanted their own identity, as they felt distant from the Grove and the other neighborhoods banging OGF, so they started the Seville Boulevard subset. SBF quickly spread their influence into Willowfield, Willowfield being the bigger neighborhood with kids who knew the other children who lived in the Seville Projects. The kids in Willowfield started claiming SBF and repped the color dark green and orange alongside their Seville Boulevard kin who initially started the dark green trend. OGF members get older (and drug addicted due to crack epidemic) and The Johnson Brothers are making a name for themselves in the streets (all 3 brothers are OGF members put on by Grove OGs). The Temple Drive Families started a bit later but were basically influenced by the growing popularity of the Families gang and wanted to join the thug lifestyle. They were also facing heat from the Kilo Tray Ballas and Los Santos Vagos coming into their neighborhood punking them out so they were put on by young OGF members who moved into Temple from Ganton. In correlation with Seville, Temple was also distant from the Grove and they also wanted their own identity. They began the Temple Drive Families subset and posted up in not only Temple, but the neighboring areas of Market and Vinewood(colors being forest/faint green, orange and black). By the time TDF had been fully established as their own subset of the Families, the OGF OGs had succumbed to the crack epidemic and became washed up and drugged out. The Families split for the first time after OGF falls off and the different Fam sets drop the orange flag and rep their version of green(however they do not beef with each other, they just no longer rep Orange Grove). Sweet Johnson now being a newly turned Original Gangster of OGF, decides to reunite all sets of the Families under the sole color green. The orange flag is fully dropped by all active Families members and Orange Grove Street Families is now shortened to Grove Street Families. You can see the old OGF members still walk around the hood. They wear orange hoodies and black bucket hats with orange chucks. CJ can also still rock the OGSF back tattoo and the Rimmers Orange Hoodie.
My biggest question is why Ryder is called short, Midget etc. He's as tall as CJ, and in some cut-scenes seems taller than Tenpenny. Why is that? Is there evidence that he was supposed to be short in-game? That's your next video subject (unless you've already done it, and I've missed it)
We are happy to answer this question 😃 Unfortunately, he was supposed to be shorter than CJ, Tenpenny, and so on. Not like a midget really. There are many lines of dialogue indicating that: 1) there was unused CJ's monologue before going for the "Ryder" mission where he says "Ryder always was crazy. A big guy trapped in a little guy's body, and real angry about it." (source: tcrf.net/Grand_Theft_Auto:_San_Andreas/Unused_Mission-Related_Text_and_Audio/Los_Santos#Ryder) 2) pizza parlor's line of dialogue in the "Ryder" mission -> "No one else is that small! I feel sorry for your dad!" 3) Tenpenny's comment on Ryder's appearance in the "Catalyst" mission -> "What should I call you? Midget?" So yeah, overall it is obvious they thought about Ryder being shorter than other characters we meet during the Los Santos storyline. We'll add this idea to our list, but we don't know when the video about will come, it really depends on how much evidence we can find 🙂
He’s pretty clearly based on rapper Eazy-E who in real life was a very short 5-3. I think this may also be an idea that got crossed up between the script and the programmers.
real life there's an area called the flats with a lot of sets that are part of the flats.. IE Tortilla Flats, Primera Flats, Cuatro Flats and the list goes on
That is because we are talking about two universes here, my man. Grove Street Families from GTA San Andreas and Grove Street Families from GTA 5 are not connected whatsoever. They do share the same name and exist in the same named city or state, but besides that, their history differs 🙂
ballas sound like crips its times they even say cuz i mean peep this rollin heights ballas hmm rollin sixty crips,kilo tray ballas eight trey gangster crips,glen park is kelly park ion know the rest
it’s crazy that you bring up orange grove families, there is a gang in LA called ‘Hoovas’ their predominant color is Orange. They might’ve changed it due to not wanting to depict real life gangs, idk i could be wrong. (All of this speculation is from me growing up in the hoods of Los Angeles!)
What you're saying is totally right, my friend. Some people also mentioned Hoovers as Rockstar's inspiration there, we might discuss this in the future one day 😉
Orange Grove Families aka Orange Twelve's boys Also the names for the Three Families people Fat Families Gang: Tarnell Basketball Jersey G.M: Troy Drealocks Member: T.C for Tyrell Cornelius
Tarnell and Troy aren't my names for them there's an guy call Hugo One who refers to Fam1 and Fam2 as those names since I just got the D.E for the Switch I gaved Fam 3 an name
I love that the theory that Ryder was never meant to be a traitor has gained so much traction. He was too cool to switch sides and every mission he did was specifically to benefit GSF.
Him dying in the Green Sabre fighting alongside Sweet should have been canon. Would've shown his dedication to his friends and highlight how treacherous Big Smoke really is.
That's exactly what we think as well! Do we really have to consider Ryder a traitor just because it is in the final version shown in a rather poor way..
I don’t consider him a traitor. One of my fave characters but this man is definitely set up by smoke and definitely tenpenny. His missions were always to benefit the grove and I think they just forced him that’s why he was on the water too much at some point. He didn’t want to sell out but didn’t want to die either.
Exactly what im thinking
It's not even a theory it's factual.
Or survives and gets the respect he deserves
The way CJ says "Smoke What you into? Crash making you sell us out?" sounds like Ryder doesn't even exist in the cutscene
That's right! He was added there forcefully in order to introduce their new concept of Ryder. If you are interested in this character, we encourage you to watch this video 🙂 -> ua-cam.com/video/n4qKs9WB7no/v-deo.html
Frfr
Ryder wasn’t suppose to betray CJ an grove street
As much as Ryder was his guy I think CJ was always closer to Smoke
CJ knew Ryder was a busta, just listen to them talk after the house robbery.
Smoke was an actual shock to him.
The "Orange grove for life" line can be heard in the game. Most recently, I noticed it being uttered when walking up to some Rifas in San Fierro. They were talking about who this punk (CJ) is and when pressing reply, he replied with, you guessed it, "Orange Grove for life, [bitch?].
Oh, so we were not lying then 😅 It's great that they are still present in the game (even though they don't fit with the final concept anymore) 🙂
you can also get a back tattoo that reads 'orange grove st families ' or something like that too
@@gaminginvestigators you can also trigger that by going to ballas and them asking you "Which hood you from fool" and cj answers if you press Y ( Yes ) "Orange gsf"
There are many CJ lines refrencing OGS
Also "What's to you busta, Orange Grove"
It was always weird how despite being the main "rival" gang, there's no actual leader mentioned among the Ballas. I'm sure there had to be one before Big Smoke came along. Only person I remember is Kilo Trey or whatever his name was and that was it.
you mean Kane? the balla you kill at a funeral for another balla called little weasel?
Well, the thing with the street gangs like these is a bit different than in terms of Cosa Nostra for instance 😉 The Italian Mafia has a Don and few Captains (of course there's an Underboss, Consigliere, and so on) while some street gangs have a leader and few OGs, it is a bit similar in terms of the structure 😃
Kane, wich was killed in the los sepulcros mission, was probably the boss of The Ballas gang before Smoke’s rise
@@cjvaye99 Kane was described as Front Yard Ballas royalty, so he may of been leader of them. I mean technically Sweet and CJ are OG Grove leaders but then there have to be leaders for the other sets. Temple and Seville should have their own leaders. So In short, Kilo Trays, Rollin Heights and Temple drive I’m sure had their own set leaders. I’ll assume Little weasel became leader of the Kilo Trays set when he turned over from the Grove as he was the target to flush out and being protected over in Glen Park, which is Kilo Trays territory.
Kilo Tray is a Balla faction, not a person
Didn’t know the Ballas were called “The Flats” so that’s interesting asf! Thanks brother for the information
You're welcome, my man! 😃 Judging by the other comments, it looks like the developers wanted to create not only the Crips vs Bloods thread but also some internal conflict between two Crip factions.
I love watching videos about beta versions/content of the GTA series, one of my favorite pass times.
Welcome to the family then, Phamboy! 😃
I really like how well thought out & presented your videos are I can tell a lot of work & research has gone intoo them, unlike some other channels that discuss GTA lore 😂😁
It's been an honor to hear those kind words! More videos coming soon 🤘
I must’ve had a different version of the game when it first came out because I remember hearing CJ saying he was from Orange Grove families. This also supports your theory about the families being based off of the Hoovers. Great upload.
this was quite an interesting breakdown. ive been watching these at work while on my lunch break over the last month or so. very informative, and well put together.
also, GTA Defective Edition. that made me laugh way harder than it should have.
I hope who ever at R* that had the idea to change the gang colour from orange to green got a nice cash bonus. Orange is a very striking and over powering colour when it's the majority colour and hard to get decent shades of.
Yeah, we also think that changing the color from orange to green was a good idea 🙂 This "darker" color seems to fit the gang much more, at least from our point of view 😃
@@gaminginvestigators also GTA never have "real" gang colors and since San andreas is based in Los angeles and orange relate to the Hoovers in LA. also fitting that the hoovers call eachother groove
If they woulda went with orange it would of basically been grape street crips vs Hoovers 😂
Bro you straight up read my mind because I was looking for this video the other day and I could not find it. I like your content because you go very in depth with all the facts and details. It's a miracle you Uploaded this today because I have so many questions that need answers
Thank you so much for your kind words, Frank! It's great to have you with us, welcome to the family! 🤘
@@gaminginvestigators keep up the great content 👏
If you ever have the chance to find anything on Las Brujas by area 69 I'd love to watch it. So far I can't find nothing other than some sort of curse. Just an idea!
Love that you have the gta2 menu music as bgm, what a blast from the past
I just love how a video about GTA has Saint's Row 2's pause menu music in the background.
Love this new channel I discovered!
Welcome to the family, Mr. Teal. Did Mr. Black send you here? 😁
@@gaminginvestigators 😂😂😂😂 nice observation! My UA-cam name was heavily inspired by Leo Teal aka Mr. Teal 😂😂
no lie, this is such a good video and the script and voice over are well done!
Thank you so much, Kendyl!
Best GTA content channel ever, no doubt !
Thank you so much, c0a! 🙂 Glad you enjoyed this episode!🤘
Real life gang sets can be seen wearing different colors. So Blood sets wear green. Grape street clips wear purple. So it could be possible for orange Grove to wear a different color especially after Families split. I would think it would be confusing for some players.
Grove street shares many similarities with Hoover Criminals gang. That could be why they wore Orange originally. The OG Loc prison release was almost 1 for 1 shot of OG Bobby Johnson's release from prison in the movie South Central.
Its largely excepted that kilo tray ballas are grape street crips (purple and blue) and grove street families are lime pirus (green and red)
And all gta games take many inspirations from movies too... Like how theres 2 NPCs from boyz n the hood.
You can see trey in his outfit from the BBQ at the beginning of the movie and theres a guy who looks like Ricky in his football jacket from the crenshaw Mac 10 scene.
Yeah, we also noticed that detail. It looks like Rockstar North thought about adding three more related to each other Los Santos gangs before creating Los Santos Vagos and Varrio Los Aztecas. 🤔 Moreover, you're totally right about OG Loc's appearance. It is a cool reference to South Central (great movie btw).
@@demonjmh The families are based off of the Crips. And Ballas are based off the Bloods. Rockstar confirmed it. And also both gangs protagonist are real life Crips such as CJ and Franklin.
@@TheBlacGhost2093 rockstar never confirmed that its why its a debate but the families gang sign looks closer to the original blood symbol and the ballas looks closer to the traditional C most crips throw upj
The fact that saints row 2 music is playing in a gta explanation video is hilarious 😂😂😂
Keep up the good work. Already become my favorite channel
Thank you very much for your support, abu! Welcome to the family! 🤘
Such an old game and I always learn something new about it, keep posting. This is becoming the best gta channel
Thank you so much for your kind words, Celtic! It is a pleasure to make those videos for you guys 🤘
This channel is really underrated i really like your videos keep it up soon you will have 100k subscribers :)
Thank you very much for your kind words, homie!
@@gaminginvestigators You're welcome!
man i really enjoy your videos , i wish that you will keep posting
Thank you so much for your support, qwakazee!
Amazing details!! Love all the videos :)
Thank you for your support, Diecastbuffet (great nickname lol) 🤘 We hope you'll enjoy future episodes as much as you do now! 😃
@@gaminginvestigators haha! Appreciate that my dude!! 😄
2:05 they should have kept the cm punk easter egg
Interesting video. I think the Flats were originally supposed to be the Ballas’ most powerful faction, and after Smoke’s takeover he would theoretically merge the Ballas sets together. I guess Rockstar scrapped that idea because they liked the other names better. As for OGF, it’s possible that in the GSF’s early years, they used this name, and it’s colour. When I use the OGF mod, I like using it late in the story, so it would seem as if the Families choose to change their attire to it’s supposedly original form to honour their fallen because of Smoke and Ryder’s betrayal and honour those who were also incarcerated. As for Ryder…. Story wise, based on the game’s current plot, his betrayal can be interpreted to various ways - he was just doing what he saw fit to survive and played both sides, or the drugs clouded his judgment. Also, I think Ryder always hated CJ, even after he proved himself to the gang, out of jealousy. Ryder’s self serving nature is also shown in “Reuniting the Families”, where he originally deliberately abandoned Sweet and Carl. Yes, he and Smoke returned, but it’s possible that it was under C.R.A.S.H’s orders. Also the reason why Carl didn’t express his rage against Ryder originally is, story wise, it’s possible his betrayal didn’t shock him as much, or was more surprised of Smoke’s betrayal because of his friendly behaviour. Because their betrayal had such devastating consequences, CJ later on expressed considerable anger toward Ryder, but it doesn’t seem like he didn’t realise Ryder’s betrayal beforehand. He wasn’t mentioned in “King in Exile” because he wasn’t a major influence in the crack epidemic along with Smoke and Tenpenny’s alliance. That’s my interpretation based on the story.
Thank you so much for your support, Just! 🤘 And yeah, the possibility of the Flats being the fifth Ballas faction is worth considering. But it's really hard to find some answers whether it was like it or not :/ In terms of OGF, it's a bit of shame that so much information got thrown into the bin 😦 As for Ryder, yeah, it is debatable how to perceive his fate in this game. The majority of people would say he's a traitor, but on the other hand, there are various reasons proving them wrong.. Thanks for the comment!
5:25 Defective edition files. I'd say gamers decisively agree with this rename.
Grove Street Games should have thought twice before releasing this crap! 😂
Ayo not the SR2 pause menu music LMAO
1:39 the image on the right = when you turn sharpness all the way up on the tv.
😂 😂
One thing that would have been cool is if you beat the whole game you unlock everything including beta character models they took out an add all of the models so you see the fat gsf member with a hoodie an another thing that could have been cool tht when u beat the whole game you can take over Aztecas turf an they become your allies an wear green an blue that would be cool if you understand what I’m saying
Yeah, that would be cool, bro, but unfortunately Rockstar wasn't keen on this :/
Green is a better color but it still would've been cool to wear a orange bandana
I have a lore for the fictional street gang I created. Thanks to LS Central: the Brown Town Locos. A Mexican, Central American and Chelonian street gang. Who originated from those third world Latin American nations who moved to LS. They were originally vigilante gangs who didn’t wanted to be pushed into the hard gang life by the Aztecas and Vagos. However after 1992, the Brown Town Locos thought of expanding to San Fierro after the Rifa were weakened. But the Tezcas took over the Riga’s turf. And decided to move to Las Venturas or Silver Valley after the collapse of 94. Where Las Venturas is an open opportunity. It’s a pain but also a blessing in disguise as well. Because the casino city has gone bankrupt during that decade but they were opening themselves to the meth drug business when Gus Fring; owner of pollos hermanos was expanding business into San Andreas outside of Redemption state. The state which houses the lands of red dead redemption games. As well as San Andreas declaring to be an independent republic from the USA. Brings in opportunity. And thus expand their gang business from street to cartel.
Not bad.
That's some great piece of fan-fiction, my man! 👌 It was a pleasure reading all details 🙂
I’m happy to inspire you brother ❤️
That is good do they ever come into contact with the grove street family?
as a kid I always thought OGF was Original Grove st. Families lmao
Yeah! OGF = Original Grove Family, OGS = Original Grove Street. This is like we've reenacted a Rockstar North Meeting and got the minutes. It works for me!
Original vs Orange is not that far from the truth 😁 But calling yourself Orange Grove Street Families is definitely too long for a name lol
Maybe the Original Grove Families WAS Orange Grove & it jus goes without sayin for a Original member like CJ 🤷🏽♂️
this groove street game member almost forgot his script in the came and had to teleport quick to the bike part 8:14
OG Loc had a mustache originally? God damn, i never knew that. Now it makes sense to me why Carl would mention "Hey, i like a nice mustache, myself" after finding out Loc's prison affair was a man.
Yeah, exactly! The line of dialogue you mentioned is one of the clues, but there are many pre-release screenshots showing that as well 😃
My head canon is that the subset of Families that is from Grove Street was originally Orange Grove Families, in universe I mean. They then joined the larger Families gang and adopted green. But this would have been years before the events of the game. Likely even before CJ and Sweet were part of it.
In real life this happened alot actually, for example the bounty hunter bloods were green jackets and the piru bloods were the piru street boys before joining the bloods. Orange Grove probably joined the families and became the Grove street family.
cool head canon! there’s videos that go way in depth about the start of most gangs in SA. piece together in game content and some cut material from SA and you’ll find that the Orange Grove Families is the original set in the Families street gang. OGF started on Grove Street repping the colors orange, black, and green. OGF members put on the neighboring kids/teens that lived in Ganton Courts (the blue projects left of Grove Street). OGF spread out to the surrounding neighborhoods of Idlewood, Willowfield, and Playa Del Seville. OGF had Idlewood on lock being that it was right across the tracks, the same couldn’t be said for Playa Del Seville. The Families members there wanted their own identity, as they felt distant from the Grove and the other neighborhoods banging OGF, so they started the Seville Boulevard subset. SBF quickly spread their influence into Willowfield, Willowfield being the bigger neighborhood with kids who knew the other children who lived in the Seville Projects. The kids in Willowfield started claiming SBF and repped the color dark green and orange alongside their Seville Boulevard kin who initially started the dark green trend. OGF members get older (and drug addicted due to crack epidemic) and The Johnson Brothers are making a name for themselves in the streets (all 3 brothers are OGF members put on by Grove OGs). The Temple Drive Families started a bit later but were basically influenced by the growing popularity of the Families gang and wanted to join the thug lifestyle. They were also facing heat from the Kilo Tray Ballas and Los Santos Vagos coming into their neighborhoods punking them out so they were put on by young OGF members who moved into Temple from Ganton. In correlation with Seville, Temple was also distant from the Grove and they also wanted their own identity. They began the Temple Drive Families subset and posted up in not only Temple, but the neighboring areas of Market and Vinewood. By the time TDF had been fully established as their own subset of the Families, the OGF OGs had succumbed to the crack epidemic and became washed up and drugged out. The Families split for the first time after OGF fell off. Sweet Johnson now being a newly turned Original Gangster of OGF, decides to reunite all sets of the Families under the sole color green. The orange flag is dropped and Orange Grove Street Families is now shortened to Grove Street Families. You can see the old OGF members still walk around the hood. They wear orange hoodies and black bucket hats with orange chucks. CJ can also still rock the OGSF back tattoo and the Rimmers Orange Hoodie.
They should’ve made orange grow families in the game instead of green
"Orange fuccing Grove fuccing Street"
7:00 the fact it just gets more & more aggressive🤣🤣🤣🤣💀
It can be easily assumed CJ is going crazy like Catalina out there 😂 😂
The flats gang. The former gang that would become the Ballas. Orange grove families are the oldest gang in Los Santos and they separate and evolve the gang colors from orange to various shades of green. And one branch would become the grove street families. North and south grove street families. The north grove street which CJ and sweet control survive past 2004 from outsider gang influence. The south grove street got taken over by the Ballas and thus the grove street of gta v Los santos become Ballas turf. Generally the Families gang. One would form temple drive. Seville boulevard. Forum drive families and chamberlain gangsters families. Carson avenue fam. Davis neighborhood fam.
Temple is the most savage set of the families
Interesting backstory theory! Unfortunately, Grove Street Families from GTA San Andreas is not related to Grove Street Families from GTA V so that would have to be changed for sure 😉
@@gaminginvestigators I thought maybe that there’s two grove street cul de sacs. One with a bridge over it and east of downtown and the other not having a bridge over it. Located in the south of downtown.
@@elperrodelautumo7511 I think rockstar said gta sa and v are apart of different universes
@@Originalchili different “universes” or different street grids. I wished they merged the stories of gta San Andreas and gta v as one. Two grove streets; one with the bridge above it stayed families turf. The other grove street without the bridge turned into Ballas turf as revenge or karma for destroying the Ballas sets in 1992 or post gta San Andreas. Maybe CJ and sweet left the hood for the rich life
The only thing I never got with OGF, is CJ referring to it on a couple of occasions as "Orange Grove Street Famalies".. Is it a Grove or a Street? 😅
It's probably both 😂 But it is quite impressive that they decided to leave so many traces of this old concept 😃
Idk, but there's a Grove st near me where I live
@@Originalchili is it run by a bunch of guys dressed in green? 🤣🤣
@@Originalchili I live right next to Grove St. where I am.
anyone else notice the saints row background music for a gta video? 🤣
That beat was so fire i had to keep the game paused for so damn long if you a og saints row fan well 1 and 2 😭🔥🔥🔥🔥
Love vids like this
Thanks so much, bro! New episodes coming soon 🤘
@@gaminginvestigators bro use GTA music next time not no damn saints row music on a video about GRAND THEFT AUTO
Orange 12 is considered as tweela ve by hugo 1..lol another streamer i often watch..js here an honorable mention 😄
Saints row 2 main menu music for a GTA lore video. Nice!
Lol. The OGF lines were getting higher pitches dialogue by dialogue 😂
ORANGE GROVE STREET FAMILIES, it gets even higher 🤭 Thanks for the comment!
Sometimes it makes me sad when i get to know cut content from games. One time its for the better but the other time not so much. It makes you think the game was supposed to be bigger and better.
Yeah, we feel exactly the same :/ It's awesome to discover new things being cut/unused in the game but at the same time, you shed a tear because it wasn't implemented after all. 🙁
I would have loved if they had did a buffer or in between before 6 like San Andreas in the mid to late 80's like the GTA stories to see how the Grove fell on hard times and how the other gangs came to be in the area
Yeah, GTA San Andreas Stories would be highly appreciated.. Unfortunately, Rockstar decided to move on with GTA 4, leaving us only with The Introduction movie :/
@@gaminginvestigators I'm guessing that GTA San Andreas is probably meant to take place between San Andreas and vice city like somewhere after cj left, or perhaps even before vice city stories took place. Makes me wonder if you're also meant to play as another gsf member so that you can really see the backstory of the gsf
[In 1:23] I like such visuals of ballas when viewing this screenshot, those would be in the game too
Interesting
Also i like how you used Saints Row 2 OST :)
Great to hear you liked the video! Yeah this song has a cool gangster vibe :)
@@gaminginvestigators yeah :)
Too bad Saints Row stopped being about the gangster setting, and then became woke
Actually the OGF wasn't any secret or an Easter Egg.
Thanks for another great video 🤘
It's our pleasure, Ben! Good to have you here! 🤘
Is the background music from Saints Row 2?
Did you know that? There are 4 faction of grove street Black and Orange faction,Green (Grove street) faction, and last Seville Blvd faction
Not only is san andreas the best gta game imo, it has such a rich and interesting history and development cycle.
Been really enjoying watching your gta content recently, you really do your homework, this channel deserves to be much bigger!
OGF should’ve been the hoovas if we being honest and stayed another set of the crips and then OGF (hoovas) beef with everyone like real life but thanks for the info
You're welcome, bro 🙂 Glad to hear the video met your expectations 😃
I was just thinking of that too
I take a shot of vodka everytime i hear CJ saying "OGS"
Challenge accepted!
I think orange was changed due to it representing the la hoovers which rep orange aswell
I still think some inclusion of other families in san andreas like the orange grove families would have been cool, they wouldn't have even had to do much beyond just including them at points in the story where one faction of grove street is beefing with another. It would have tied a lot of the concept artwork together where you have members of the orange grove families wearing orange or riding in an orange car.
Now the real question is, was GSF ever orange colored?
The name was orange grove for sure but was the color orange too?
Or it was always shades of green as shown in all of the released screenshots?
Taking into account that there are no screenshots showing orange members of our gang whatsoever, we would probably say no.
Off topic, but in saints row, the gang you were in was originally green, then they changed it to purple, I'm guessing because it was close to Grove street from gta
This was in my recommendation after watching “39 cents” UA-cam channel
39 cents channel rules! 🤘 They have great cosplay in some missions, although they should stick more to the original scenario, like not changing the voice lines, that's our little issue there 😅
Can u do what real life gangs are based off gta Sa???
For sure, homie! We will cover real-life gangs that were Rockstar's inspirations in one of the future videos 😃
So that's why the game Icon wears orange because it was originally Orange Grove Families
The OGF lines had me crying laughing 🤣😂
They're not so bad 😃 It turns out to be even more interesting when CJ starts screaming louder 😂
OGS bitch!!! You ain't got it yet!!!??😂😂😂
I dunno if it had something to do with it, but there are numerous real life Flats gangs in Los Angeles, namely the Primera and Cuatro Flats in Boyle Heights, Primera Flats 23 in South Central, and the Tortilla Flats from Compton. Maybe the developers didn’t want any issues with real gangs?
Yeah, you're probably right 🤔 But still, many Ballas factions are still referencing few real-life ones, like Kilo Trays and such.
I never knew who the dude in the orange was
The mystery has been solved 😃
7:00 yo why the duck he getting madder nd louder? That shit had me fucking dying
Always did wonder what would happened if Grove gang would have stayed orange instead of going to green
Unfortunately, we do not know what would happen in this instance, my man 🤔
@@gaminginvestigators Thanks for feedback boss man
Love the Saints Row 2 backround music, great memories.
Ya know.. I'm kinda happy they changed the name to Ballas' and not Flats... something about it wouldn't really fit the game.
Adding the Saints Row 2 pause menu music to a GTA video is the ultimate Chad move
Hi, is gta the trilogy definitive edition worth it
Pls I need answers
Orange grove families was the name of the hood, grove st was not only the st they lived on but their particular set within orange grove. A group within a group if u will
So you're saying there Orange Grove Families and Grove Street Families? That seems odd as hell, my dude 😃
@@gaminginvestigators maybe u need to look a lil more into LA Gang culture and structure my guy
@@gaminginvestigators so there are the families, they wear green. All the families not just grove. Then there is orange grove which is the general area that they "the orange grove families" control. Then there is grove st. Which is one street of the orange grove neighborhood. The grove st families which sweet is the leader of. Which is all the guys that grew up on grove st. Basically the families are like the crips or bloods it isnt just one gang. Which is also why they had to be on the lookout "not everyone wearing green os an ally" cuz the other families started beefing with grove st.
Orange Grove isn’t the name of the neighborhood. The name of the neighborhood is Ganton. Orange Grove Street Families is the original set in the Families street gang. They had orange in the name cuz that was the color they rep, along with green and black and sometimes red. Rimmers colors, a sports team in SA. Sweet Started GSF when OGF OG’s fell off due to the crack epidemic. They became drugged out and you can see them walking the streets with Black bucket Hats, orange rimmer hoodies with #12 on them, and orange chucks. R* just basically did a last minute content cut on the color and in depth OGF backstory for various reasons.
piece together in game content and some cut material from SA and you’ll find that the Orange Grove Families is the original set in the Families street gang. OGF started on Grove Street repping the colors orange, black, and green. OGF members put on the neighboring kids/teens that lived in Ganton Courts (the blue projects left of Grove Street). OGF spread out to the surrounding neighborhoods of Idlewood, Willowfield, and Playa Del Seville. OGF had Idlewood on lock being that it was right across the tracks, the same couldn’t be said for Playa Del Seville. The Families members there wanted their own identity, as they felt distant from the Grove and the other neighborhoods banging OGF, so they started the Seville Boulevard subset. SBF quickly spread their influence into Willowfield, Willowfield being the bigger neighborhood with kids who knew the other children who lived in the Seville Projects. The kids in Willowfield started claiming SBF and repped the color dark green and orange alongside their Seville Boulevard kin who initially started the dark green trend. OGF members get older (and drug addicted due to crack epidemic) and The Johnson Brothers are making a name for themselves in the streets (all 3 brothers are OGF members put on by Grove OGs). The Temple Drive Families started a bit later but were basically influenced by the growing popularity of the Families gang and wanted to join the thug lifestyle. They were also facing heat from the Kilo Tray Ballas and Los Santos Vagos coming into their neighborhood punking them out so they were put on by young OGF members who moved into Temple from Ganton. In correlation with Seville, Temple was also distant from the Grove and they also wanted their own identity. They began the Temple Drive Families subset and posted up in not only Temple, but the neighboring areas of Market and Vinewood(colors being forest/faint green, orange and black). By the time TDF had been fully established as their own subset of the Families, the OGF OGs had succumbed to the crack epidemic and became washed up and drugged out. The Families split for the first time after OGF falls off and the different Fam sets drop the orange flag and rep their version of green(however they do not beef with each other, they just no longer rep Orange Grove). Sweet Johnson now being a newly turned Original Gangster of OGF, decides to reunite all sets of the Families under the sole color green. The orange flag is fully dropped by all active Families members and Orange Grove Street Families is now shortened to Grove Street Families. You can see the old OGF members still walk around the hood. They wear orange hoodies and black bucket hats with orange chucks. CJ can also still rock the OGSF back tattoo and the Rimmers Orange Hoodie.
So it would been Hoover crip vs Grape Street crips, but in the end Lime Street piru vs grape state vs Latin kings.
Yeah, it looks like it 🙂 The question is, was it a good change after all? 🤔
So grove street was based on bloods Piru street? I see grove members throwing up B hand gang signs
My biggest question is why Ryder is called short, Midget etc. He's as tall as CJ, and in some cut-scenes seems taller than Tenpenny. Why is that? Is there evidence that he was supposed to be short in-game? That's your next video subject (unless you've already done it, and I've missed it)
We are happy to answer this question 😃 Unfortunately, he was supposed to be shorter than CJ, Tenpenny, and so on. Not like a midget really. There are many lines of dialogue indicating that:
1) there was unused CJ's monologue before going for the "Ryder" mission where he says "Ryder always was crazy. A big guy trapped in a little guy's body, and real angry about it." (source: tcrf.net/Grand_Theft_Auto:_San_Andreas/Unused_Mission-Related_Text_and_Audio/Los_Santos#Ryder)
2) pizza parlor's line of dialogue in the "Ryder" mission -> "No one else is that small! I feel sorry for your dad!"
3) Tenpenny's comment on Ryder's appearance in the "Catalyst" mission -> "What should I call you? Midget?"
So yeah, overall it is obvious they thought about Ryder being shorter than other characters we meet during the Los Santos storyline. We'll add this idea to our list, but we don't know when the video about will come, it really depends on how much evidence we can find 🙂
He’s pretty clearly based on rapper Eazy-E who in real life was a very short 5-3. I think this may also be an idea that got crossed up between the script and the programmers.
5:15 it was changed to a brown shirt on the original game
Now I gotta play saints row 2 with this menu music😤🤦
real life there's an area called the flats with a lot of sets that are part of the flats.. IE Tortilla Flats, Primera Flats, Cuatro Flats and the list goes on
02:10 CM Punk? Wtf 😂
I was your old subscriber I have like the video is a script and I am back at your video
Ah yes twelevy makes an appearance If you know you know
So why is grove st tooking over by ballas in gta 5 in grove st hood is now in the ballas hood why is it like that I wish we got a sanadreas two
That is because we are talking about two universes here, my man. Grove Street Families from GTA San Andreas and Grove Street Families from GTA 5 are not connected whatsoever. They do share the same name and exist in the same named city or state, but besides that, their history differs 🙂
8:50 orange 12: do your shower and dodo 💩💩💩
Hoovers vs EightTreys is what the real world version would look like.
Hoovas & 83's get along & have always gotten along...
The real life version would be more like The Inglewood Families vs QueenStreet Families
@@wolf7el356 60's vs the 3's actually
@@g187um The Ballas vs the GSF was actually loosely based around the Bounty Hunters & Grape Street Crips in Watts.
@@wolf7el356 exactly
Any idea on who voiced orange 12?
Unfortunately, we have absolutely no idea who would it be :/
that guy wearing an orange shirt is supposed to be Ryder, not OG Loc
I dont think the orange 12 guy was a member I think he was originally supposed to be just a wannabe
Yeah, that might be it as well. Perhaps he wanted to join OGF but was still at the point of trying to prove his usefulness. 🤔
No he is a washed up OGF OG. just the rest of OGF content got cut and renamed/rearranged by r* last minute
Flat is suppose to be ballas in beta version and Grove Street in beta is Orange Grove .!
We need a gta from the ballas perspectives 💯💯💯
Not even a minute in its just not right listening to saints row music in a video about gta
Kinda of irritated me not gonna lie.
ballas sound like crips its times they even say cuz i mean peep this rollin heights ballas hmm rollin sixty crips,kilo tray ballas eight trey gangster crips,glen park is kelly park ion know the rest
Yes, it really shows how much inspiration the developers took from real-life gangs and movies to make it all work perfectly 🙂
it’s crazy that you bring up orange grove families, there is a gang in LA called ‘Hoovas’ their predominant color is Orange. They might’ve changed it due to not wanting to depict real life gangs, idk i could be wrong. (All of this speculation is from me growing up in the hoods of Los Angeles!)
What you're saying is totally right, my friend. Some people also mentioned Hoovers as Rockstar's inspiration there, we might discuss this in the future one day 😉
Wait is that saints row 2 pause music I hear?
So glad they went with green orange looks like prison colors
Yeah, the change from orange to green seems to be the right way 😃
Bro Carjacked Jizzy Before He Knew Jizzy
"Orange 12" uh, his name is Tweleve (pronounced Twee-le-vay") lol
The flats still exist it’s just a set near the docks
Do you mean Ocean Flats? 😃 It's a neighborhood in SF, but if you were talking about Ocean Docks, still, no Flats set is present in-game :/
im sure they changed the name flats cause theres actually a real gang called flats in Los Angeles...a really old gang that still is active..
Talks about GTA
Plays Saints Row music in intro 🤣
I swear I'm finna become a GTA SA historian by just watching beta content😂
Do we have a theory that the Orange Grove was rebranded after CJ ran off to Liberty City?
Orange Grove Families aka Orange Twelve's boys
Also the names for the Three Families people
Fat Families Gang: Tarnell
Basketball Jersey G.M: Troy
Drealocks Member: T.C for Tyrell Cornelius
That's a cool reference right there! Although there are some people who link this old concept to the Hoovers 😃
Tarnell and Troy aren't my names for them there's an guy call Hugo One who refers to Fam1 and Fam2 as those names since I just got the D.E for the Switch I gaved Fam 3 an name