Father Behr has delivered an excellent video on the Centrality of Christ in the Orthodox Church. He gives a very passionate and insightful illumination on the significant challenges facing Orthodox Christians in these fallen times.
Fr. Behr speaks with such profound wisdom and brilliance. Every time I listen to him, my mind opens to something I'd not seen, learned, or thought about before. Excellent.
"The Son of God suffered unto the death, not that we might not suffer but that our suffering might be like His." George MacDonald - 1824-1905. Thanks John, Lord bless you.
Glory be to God for all things+++ Suffering and struggles are what a Christians life is - without them we would not truly understand our Lord Jesus Christ - Lord have mercy+++
We need a church unchanged, yet explicitly present in our modern world. I am glad to be a part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church; unchanged and present.
Father John Behr's universalism and rejection of all notions of home and ethnic identities/loyalties are a stark contrast to the late R Scruton's un-Christian notion of oikophilia. I look forward to reading his books and listening to his talks.
Yet the Greek church is uniquely Greek and the Russians uniquely russian. The oriential ...and so forth.. Amen that God blessed us with ethnic groups. Amen for Babel. yes yes all are invited but let the church be unique and beautifly different in unity, in Christ. Anyone who would set against the beautiful expression of eachs differences have been consumed by human ideology of diversity in unhealthy ways. that doesn't reflect the plethora of different liturgy and the incredible expressions of the same faith.. l The western right is good, the differing customs also.. Let us not try to separate the ethnic groups and people from such customs, from such uniqueness for they are apart of the fabric of the church. The unity of man's efforts and Gods. A synergia of people's each in their own national expressions both in their race and culture, in unity.
We are pilgrims and this land we are in is not our home. We have left Egypt and traversed the waters of the Red Sea to arrive in the desert, with great hope of the promised land.
I love your final comment there: In other words, being FAIR means respecting people wherever they are: If they came with ethnic churches, we RESPECT those ethnic churches and try to grow them as they are; not tell them they are not allowed to be the way they are.
I need to listen to F. John's words many types, in order to understand them fully, and write them down. His words bring transformation, but you need to be patient to catch them. Otherwise, they'll become empty.
Scripture is living in us Thankyou - for that moment; it is played out -2/ transcendence 3/ turmoil One body manifested- In the body of Christ Jesus there are many rooms
I personally have found that it is actually the other way around. It is the modern life, the scientific research findings etc that have to agree with the orthodox view of life. About diet, about relationships, about way of raising our children, even about breastfeeding (st Paisios advised women to breastfeed their children because it gives to the children a sense of love and peace, in accordance to the findings of the latest scientific research).
"We are going to end up with a situation where people have absolutely no idea what is going on in church" (John Behr). But we already have people who have no idea what is going on in church- and, indeed, it is _not_ simply a modern phenomenon. The Serfs in Russia, according to Pavel Florensky, never had any real idea what was going on in church, they were just impressed by its dignity and weight.
A bit of a long story...suffice to say that (although far from ideal(!)) this version (with the filter) was preferable to the non-filter version...Glad you enjoyed the talk!
I greatly appreciate this thoughtful commentary from Fr John. It is a needed reminder that we ought not orient ourselves to this world. However, I have a slight disagreement with his remarks regarding the development of an American Orthodox church. Perhaps some might think I'm splitting hairs here, but I can't see the development of an American church as being ethnocentric in nature, quite the opposite, actually. The situation in America is unique in that it is NOT any single ethnic group, but rather the collection of rejects and refugees from every corner of the globe. Any sense of unity that exists in America (which is frightfully little these days, admittedly, sadly) is not ethnic but civic in nature. We cannot be united by tribe or blood, so we must be united, if possible, by our ideals. I pray that Orthodoxy might become our national ideal; but how will this happen if Orthodoxy in America is to always be competing jurisdictions (itself a canonical problem) and allegiances to a collection of foreign patriarchs who, by necessity, must care more for their local flocks than for their 'colonies' in America? Can any of our existing patriarchs properly guide America into Orthodoxy while addressing the very vital issues facing the local flocks within their Sees? Perhaps I have gone afield of Fr John's advice about existing in this world, but I don't see how remaining as we are helps us to overcome that obstacle, either...
I think that the issue he raises about modernity vs ancient, isn’t just a problem in the church. It’s a problem in art, and music, and literature and even architecture and history. Since the form of ‘critical theory’ it’s now mandatory to hold the past in contempt and essentially to make a God of progress. It’s very dubious to cut oneself off from the past and declare that we are creating civilization from scratch - it’s just a bad idea. There’s no foundation. So this isn’t even a religious issue per se, this is a social problem today. And the solution is to realize that we don’t need to be so biased. Older movies are so much better as stories than movies today.
I would suggest that an "American" church label is needed as it represents the diverse cultural and racial strata that should be unifying and representative of the whole body of Christ. A case in point, while recently visiting Mt. Athos the non-Orthodox nature of my first name seemed to raise a red flag to many there. An American Orthodox Church label would not be adding to a nationalistic Orthodox mixture but rather as a caution against rigid assumptions.
I think Fr. John would argue the opposite - rather than add new ethnic labels, we need to diminish the ethnic labels that we have. I think St. Paul would agree... "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
@@ProtectingVeil I think you are making my point. An American church, by its great diversity would not be adding an ethnic component. Unless one proposes and gains acceptance for the removal of all ethnic labels associated with Orthodoxy, which Fr. John may advocate, an alternative would be to reduce ethnic significance by the formation of a church in which ethnicities are naturally blended.
@@OrthodoxGardener It seems there is an important point you are missing: St. Paul, for example, addressed his epistles to "the Church of God which is at . . . "(1 Corinthians 1:2, et al). It simply is not proper to refer to the Church by putting either location or ethnicity first. The Church is manifested in and through the local eucharistic community which is why anyone baptized into Orthodox Christianity has their membership in a local parish and not in some universal, geographical, this-world sense. Fr. John is correctly asserting that we must understand the Church as one in its other-worldliness and not merely in some geographical or ethnic sense.
@@shaundaugherty1028 I agree that it is not appropriate to refer to the church by either location of ethnicity first - "We believe in one Holy Catholic, and Apostolic Church" is recited throughout the world in the Nicene Creed, so I was not making that argument. I was relating my own experience on Mount Athos and how an American Church might blur the lines of what one might expect Orthodoxy to look like - precisely due to the diverse ethnicities that comprise our country. Have a great day.
Yes, if the various ethnic Church jurisdictions would merge into an American Orthodox Church (or Canadian, Mexican, etc.) embracing North American souls using their local vernacular, the beauty, fullness, and significance of Orthodoxy could be conveyed so clearly and warmly. No need to feel second best to a Hellene, or a Rus, or a Slav. And the sooner the better; with tensions growing amongst the Hierarchs of the “Mother”Churches, our ability to co-celebrate might be in peril. The attempt to consider North Americans as “diaspora” might have worked 100 years but now it just sounds silly and is damaging our parishes. The need for unified Orthodoxy in the US (or Globally) is Now!
Herman, this is a wonderful interview, and thanks for your work, which is so important. But I would lose the faux film scratches and washed out color. It's manipulation, low level to be sure, but unmistakable.
Christ is risen! Haha...I don't disagree...I use filters sparingly, and never without reason...rest assured that there was method to my madness (happy to share with you sometime!)
Prospering or suffering success or failure are not the questions. Those are the questions asked and conveniently answered by evangelicals on my TV. Preparation for the opportunity to Understand our individual position in relation to creation is the reason for the Church and administration of the sacraments not enlightenment that’s for the Buddhist. Do we serve Christ more by martyrdom or by providing food, fiber and shelter for our fellow man through works especially in times of prosperity and opportunity? Any notion that you can only “be with Christ” by sacrifice and suffering I reject completely. If that were true the Church fathers and all the saints didn’t sacrifice for us, they only did it for themselves to serve their own purposes, selfishly, so they would be close to God, what’s Christian about that? Didn’t Christ himself die on the cross because of his unending love. If they wanted to help us by making sure we remained suffering they wouldn’t have become martyrs they would have ran for public office. The problem with Orthodoxy today are priest, Bishops and Archbishops who involve themselves in every aspect of, life, culture and politics as if they somehow know better. The Church has not, cannot and should not change and this leaves only the Clergy responsible. Rather than attempting to wield perceived power they should love and joyously welcome people, all people, with faith love and fear of God to the sacraments. That’s the job period end of story. Teach us to know the Sacraments, the history the why the meaning and importance of each. If the clergy focused singularly on that they would make better people and everything else would then take care of itself. Rather today GoArch is more busy driving wedges with meaningless opinion about vaccines, BLM, Immigration or autocephalous for this group or that group or whatever. I know people even a priest who have left the Church because of the flurry of opinions. A Pontiffs pontifications are useless as any mans opinion and God knows we have a surplus as evidenced by this very response.
Saint Paul reminds us throughout his epistles that we are saved by grace through faith. Water baptism does is not a conduit for the Holy Spirit. God places the Holy Spirit within us the moment we believe (Acts 10:44 and 11:15-17).
Father Behr speaks convincingly of some genuine problems facing Orthodoxy (and almost all Christian offshoot communities, frankly) at present. But neither he nor any other major Christian doctrinal authority/tradition addresses the greatest and most staggering source of theological contradiction and tension within all of Christianity itself, and within Christianity’s relationship to the non-Christian world. Namely, no explanation is being offered to counter the harrowing falsehood that exists at the bedrock of Christian belief: the lie about the primordial “Fall” of humanity from an initial state of perfection/immortality/unimpeded grace, etc. into a state of struggle and aimlessness and hardship and loss of grace. A supposed “Fall,” due to our species’s *own* culpability (by simply *being* imperfect, error-prone creatures?!?) that not only ripped us from a formerly immaculate and immortal existence, but which also had such horrific ramifications that it transformed the entire planet itself into a habitat of struggle, war, and dog-eat-dog hardship, whereas that habitat had supposedly been a trouble-free “paradise” beforehand. The fact remains that today’s human beings know, through appropriate gifts of scientific study, that the Genesis myth (however well-intentioned) is a mistaken model that can no longer be employed to explain, sanely, the reality of the origin and *reason* for human suffering and supposed separation from God, much less the reality that this is and has always been a planet of constant, often cataclysmic conflict and hardship and struggle. The human race (much less its first two supposed members) was never immortal or error-free or traipsing about with God in a garden. The human species evolved after millions of years of relentless pain, suffering, hardship, disease, extinctions, and once humans reached a level of sentience which allowed them to realize and reflect upon just how harsh and unforgiving life on this planet can be, they faced even *greater* anxiety and pain and struggle-not because of some paradise-smashing “Fall” caused by their own primordial error. Humans and our humanoid ancestors have been subjected to trial and error, screwing up (and warring and killing and being eaten by disease and predators) since we existed. There was no Garden of Human Immortality. Period. We know that, now. The ancients throughout the history of Christian thought were not able to know that, so Genesis was all they had, and it’s not their “fault” for sticking to that story in order to make sense of the world, in some respects. But the jig is up, now. People with any measure of sense know that the foundational myth of Christian culpability is false. This is a conflict of such terrifying doctrinal, philosophical, psychological, and existential proportions and implications that I am aghast at the silence of contemporary theologians in this regard. It makes of Christianity (and certainly of Roman Catholic/Protestant Christianity, with its largely Augustinian concepts of Original Sin and concupiscence) a house of cards. The entirety of the West is sensing this and millions feel rightly bamboozled. So bamboozled that millions are turning completely away into smug forms of atheism and a genuine idolatry centered upon nihilistic secularism and/or hedonism. These problems are spreading rapidly. And the Churches are doing N.O.T.H.I.N.G. The answer is not to make the doctrine of the Church(es) more secular or modern. Hardly! But a sensible reinterpretation of the foundational doctrine of human origins-which has shattering repercussions for the entirety of Orthodox Christian soteriology-is mandatory. The irony, perhaps, is that the Orthodox are best equipped among all churches to rectify this grave crisis because their belief in theosis leaves much greater room for a revised understanding and subsequent evangelism of the actuality of human origins and even universal origins ... yet the Orthodox are the *least* likely to take up this cause because of their immobility when it comes to the preservation of tradition. I have no problem with my faith that Christ is indeed the Logos-made-flesh and that His incarnation/death/resurrection have “redeemed” the very matter of the universe, as well as human souls via baptism, Eucharist, and loving, active faith. But these times find people aware of the universe and of the truth about human origins in ways never before possible or accessible to them in recorded history, and the vastness of the conflict between the Christian origin myth and scientific earthly reality is abysmal. All of Christian doctrine is threaded with and colored by the incorrect understanding-unintentional falsehood-of a primordial Fall. And we are seeing the ramifications of that disastrous, discordant note in Western culture right now. But please notice that I said all of Christian *doctrine* is colored by a false understanding of actual human temporal/spiritual origins. Christ, however, is not colored by any of this. The Person of Christ is not in jeopardy, and theosis/salvation is not in jeopardy. I cannot be the only believer in Christ who is horrified by this dichotomy and its effect upon the wider spiritual health of the West. What will the churches do? Simply ignore this complete sundering of reasonable, logical theology and tell us to “pretend” we don’t see what is clear? To take the Genesis tale (and its now-absurd ramifications) literally? Shall we hope the world falls into another Dark Age when all useful and beneficial scientific knowledge is lost and myths can be promulgated once more? What about souls living now, who need and deserve the Light of Christ? I would hope that Orthodoxy might, by some miracle, take on this doom-riddled theological dilemma, because I believe that Orthodoxy otherwise possesses the closest vision of the Person of Christ that can be shared on this earth, and certainly in the unfailing mystery of the Eucharist. A disservice is being done to the Gospel exhortation of Christ to teach, and to millions of souls who need to know Him, but who are perhaps prevented from accepting the gift of faith in His Person because we have discovered that the bedrock portrayal of our human origins in ancient canonical texts-and the doctrinal/existential ramifications of that portrayal-is not only flawed but false.
So the "profound" "genius" of the Orthodox church is depicting historical occurrences contrary to the Holy Bible? Based on later invented traditions? That is certainly profound indeed. A profound recipe for disaster! And now you refuse correction because that would be giving in to "modernity". It does not get more ungodly and lame than that.
Minucius I would suggest you revisit what he might mean, and what might be meant by the iconography and what father Behr is referring to. It’s doing SOMETHING ELSE.
Father Behr is not aware of the corruption modernity has wrought upon him. The blind leading the blind. That is the ultimate conquest of the corruption of our time. A corruption Christ warned about. I’d say this Father needs to let Christ live in him first. Then he will have the help and answers he wants to guide others back to life. And I would like to imagine that will only take submitting to God and his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. Perhaps easy, perhaps not.
📙 FREE eBOOK on the wisdom of modern Orthodox Christian elders:
social.protectingveil.com/freebook1
Father Behr has delivered an excellent video on the Centrality of Christ in the Orthodox Church. He gives a very passionate and insightful illumination on the significant challenges facing Orthodox Christians in these fallen times.
Fr. Behr speaks with such profound wisdom and brilliance. Every time I listen to him, my mind opens to something I'd not seen, learned, or thought about before. Excellent.
Christ is Risen! Thanks to God...I find him very helpful, too!
@@ProtectingVeil Truly He is risen!
"The Son of God suffered unto the death, not that we might not suffer but that our suffering might be like His."
George MacDonald - 1824-1905.
Thanks John, Lord bless you.
Glory be to God for all things+++
Suffering and struggles are what a Christians life is - without them we would not truly understand our Lord Jesus Christ - Lord have mercy+++
Amen...may we endure our crosses with patience and love!
Christ Is Risen!!!! I just want to thank you for these wonderful videos that you have been producing. Your work is a blessing to us all.
He is Risen indeed! Thanks brother, it's a blessing to get positive feedback!
We need a church unchanged, yet explicitly present in our modern world. I am glad to be a part of the One, Holy, Catholic and Apostolic Church; unchanged and present.
Excellent interview. He makes it so easy to understand ... much appreciated.. ☦️
Orthodoxy did not go through modernity?! Thanks God!
Indeed! One of the many paradoxes of Orthodoxy...
But isn't Fordham University, who Behr is associated with, primarily focused on pushing "Orthodoxy through modernity."
Jared Emry pushing through modernity not into modernity
Nothing necessary to change. Orthodoxy does not need to adapt.
awesome, rich, eloquent , humble, caring
The Eastern Orthodox Church has much work to do in the West to help westerners return to right living.
Super condensed and super articulated. Thank you!
Thanks to God!
Father John Behr's universalism and rejection of all notions of home and ethnic identities/loyalties are a stark contrast to the late R Scruton's un-Christian notion of oikophilia. I look forward to reading his books and listening to his talks.
Yet the Greek church is uniquely Greek and the Russians uniquely russian. The oriential ...and so forth.. Amen that God blessed us with ethnic groups. Amen for Babel. yes yes all are invited but let the church be unique and beautifly different in unity, in Christ.
Anyone who would set against the beautiful expression of eachs differences have been consumed by human ideology of diversity in unhealthy ways. that doesn't reflect the plethora of different liturgy and the incredible expressions of the same faith.. l
The western right is good, the differing customs also.. Let us not try to separate the ethnic groups and people from such customs, from such uniqueness for they are apart of the fabric of the church. The unity of man's efforts and Gods. A synergia of people's each in their own national expressions both in their race and culture, in unity.
Powerful message! Thanks for what you have done.
Thanks to God! Glad you're finding it edifying!
Absolutely inspired father, thank you.
Wonderful. There is no life in this world. We are not yet born.
Thanks to God...Amen.
Uu
We are pilgrims and this land we are in is not our home. We have left Egypt and traversed the waters of the Red Sea to arrive in the desert, with great hope of the promised land.
There was an Exodus story in the New Testament as well.
Glory to God for all things☦️☦️☦️
I love your final comment there: In other words, being FAIR means respecting people wherever they are: If they came with ethnic churches, we RESPECT those ethnic churches and try to grow them as they are; not tell them they are not allowed to be the way they are.
Thank you!
I need to listen to F. John's words many types, in order to understand them fully, and write them down. His words bring transformation, but you need to be patient to catch them. Otherwise, they'll become empty.
Fr John this is beautiful
wonderful!
It's helpful, right?!
Glory to the Lord. Kyrie eleison. 🙏❤🙂
Scripture is living in us Thankyou - for that moment; it is played out -2/ transcendence 3/ turmoil
One body manifested- In the body of Christ Jesus there are many rooms
yes that part struck me as well!
I personally have found that it is actually the other way around. It is the modern life, the scientific research findings etc that have to agree with the orthodox view of life. About diet, about relationships, about way of raising our children, even about breastfeeding (st Paisios advised women to breastfeed their children because it gives to the children a sense of love and peace, in accordance to the findings of the latest scientific research).
I agree. No one must fix Orthodoxy to adapt to the chaos of today. Nothing to change in the hymns. Nothing to change in Orthodoxy.
Thank you !!! Enlightening!!!
Brilliant!
Just excellent ...
"We are going to end up with a situation where people have absolutely no idea what is going on in church" (John Behr). But we already have people who have no idea what is going on in church- and, indeed, it is _not_ simply a modern phenomenon. The Serfs in Russia, according to Pavel Florensky, never had any real idea what was going on in church, they were just impressed by its dignity and weight.
Lovely inspiration from patristics to some clear modern existentialist influence (facticity, throwness).
Thanks to God...thanks for stopping by, Sam!
thank you for this; really informative
Amazing talk. Why the weird video filter tho?
A bit of a long story...suffice to say that (although far from ideal(!)) this version (with the filter) was preferable to the non-filter version...Glad you enjoyed the talk!
Interesting, reminds me of Heidegger at times.
I greatly appreciate this thoughtful commentary from Fr John. It is a needed reminder that we ought not orient ourselves to this world. However, I have a slight disagreement with his remarks regarding the development of an American Orthodox church. Perhaps some might think I'm splitting hairs here, but I can't see the development of an American church as being ethnocentric in nature, quite the opposite, actually. The situation in America is unique in that it is NOT any single ethnic group, but rather the collection of rejects and refugees from every corner of the globe. Any sense of unity that exists in America (which is frightfully little these days, admittedly, sadly) is not ethnic but civic in nature. We cannot be united by tribe or blood, so we must be united, if possible, by our ideals. I pray that Orthodoxy might become our national ideal; but how will this happen if Orthodoxy in America is to always be competing jurisdictions (itself a canonical problem) and allegiances to a collection of foreign patriarchs who, by necessity, must care more for their local flocks than for their 'colonies' in America? Can any of our existing patriarchs properly guide America into Orthodoxy while addressing the very vital issues facing the local flocks within their Sees? Perhaps I have gone afield of Fr John's advice about existing in this world, but I don't see how remaining as we are helps us to overcome that obstacle, either...
I think that the issue he raises about modernity vs ancient, isn’t just a problem in the church. It’s a problem in art, and music, and literature and even architecture and history. Since the form of ‘critical theory’ it’s now mandatory to hold the past in contempt and essentially to make a God of progress. It’s very dubious to cut oneself off from the past and declare that we are creating civilization from scratch - it’s just a bad idea. There’s no foundation.
So this isn’t even a religious issue per se, this is a social problem today. And the solution is to realize that we don’t need to be so biased. Older movies are so much better as stories than movies today.
I would suggest that an "American" church label is needed as it represents the diverse cultural and racial strata that should be unifying and representative of the whole body of Christ. A case in point, while recently visiting Mt. Athos the non-Orthodox nature of my first name seemed to raise a red flag to many there. An American Orthodox Church label would not be adding to a nationalistic Orthodox mixture but rather as a caution against rigid assumptions.
I think Fr. John would argue the opposite - rather than add new ethnic labels, we need to diminish the ethnic labels that we have. I think St. Paul would agree... "There is neither Jew nor Greek, there is neither bond nor free, there is neither male nor female: for ye are all one in Christ Jesus."
@@ProtectingVeil I think you are making my point. An American church, by its great diversity would not be adding an ethnic component. Unless one proposes and gains acceptance for the removal of all ethnic labels associated with Orthodoxy, which Fr. John may advocate, an alternative would be to reduce ethnic significance by the formation of a church in which ethnicities are naturally blended.
@@OrthodoxGardener It seems there is an important point you are missing: St. Paul, for example, addressed his epistles to "the Church of God which is at . . . "(1 Corinthians 1:2, et al). It simply is not proper to refer to the Church by putting either location or ethnicity first. The Church is manifested in and through the local eucharistic community which is why anyone baptized into Orthodox Christianity has their membership in a local parish and not in some universal, geographical, this-world sense. Fr. John is correctly asserting that we must understand the Church as one in its other-worldliness and not merely in some geographical or ethnic sense.
@@shaundaugherty1028 I agree that it is not appropriate to refer to the church by either location of ethnicity first - "We believe in one Holy Catholic, and Apostolic Church" is recited throughout the world in the Nicene Creed, so I was not making that argument. I was relating my own experience on Mount Athos and how an American Church might blur the lines of what one might expect Orthodoxy to look like - precisely due to the diverse ethnicities that comprise our country. Have a great day.
Yes, if the various ethnic Church jurisdictions would merge into an American Orthodox Church (or Canadian, Mexican, etc.) embracing North American souls using their local vernacular, the beauty, fullness, and significance of Orthodoxy could be conveyed so clearly and warmly. No need to feel second best to a Hellene, or a Rus, or a Slav. And the sooner the better; with tensions growing amongst the Hierarchs of the “Mother”Churches, our ability to co-celebrate might be in peril. The attempt to consider North Americans as “diaspora” might have worked 100 years but now it just sounds silly and is damaging our parishes. The need for unified Orthodoxy in the US (or Globally) is Now!
🙏🙏🙏
Glad you found us, Rachel!
Is there a comprehensive resource list available for those who want to research Orthodoxy from the ground up?
The Holy Bible.
Herman, this is a wonderful interview, and thanks for your work, which is so important. But I would lose the faux film scratches and washed out color. It's manipulation, low level to be sure, but unmistakable.
Christ is risen! Haha...I don't disagree...I use filters sparingly, and never without reason...rest assured that there was method to my madness (happy to share with you sometime!)
We dont wont modernization.If i want something modern i go to a club not to a church.Greetings from Greece.
Where is this dude from? Somewhere in England, but I can't determine where.
We live in deadly web reality of our own make. A good book to read : "Civilized to Death: The Price of Progress"", Christopher Ryan.
It's theological unity; not bureaucratic-power unity.
Prospering or suffering success or failure are not the questions. Those are the questions asked and conveniently answered by evangelicals on my TV. Preparation for the opportunity to Understand our individual position in relation to creation is the reason for the Church and administration of the sacraments not enlightenment that’s for the Buddhist. Do we serve Christ more by martyrdom or by providing food, fiber and shelter for our fellow man through works especially in times of prosperity and opportunity? Any notion that you can only “be with Christ” by sacrifice and suffering I reject completely. If that were true the Church fathers and all the saints didn’t sacrifice for us, they only did it for themselves to serve their own purposes, selfishly, so they would be close to God, what’s Christian about that? Didn’t Christ himself die on the cross because of his unending love. If they wanted to help us by making sure we remained suffering they wouldn’t have become martyrs they would have ran for public office.
The problem with Orthodoxy today are priest, Bishops and Archbishops who involve themselves in every aspect of, life, culture and politics as if they somehow know better. The Church has not, cannot and should not change and this leaves only the Clergy responsible. Rather than attempting to wield perceived power they should love and joyously welcome people, all people, with faith love and fear of God to the sacraments. That’s the job period end of story. Teach us to know the Sacraments, the history the why the meaning and importance of each. If the clergy focused singularly on that they would make better people and everything else would then take care of itself. Rather today GoArch is more busy driving wedges with meaningless opinion about vaccines, BLM, Immigration or autocephalous for this group or that group or whatever. I know people even a priest who have left the Church because of the flurry of opinions. A Pontiffs pontifications are useless as any mans opinion and God knows we have a surplus as evidenced by this very response.
Saint Paul reminds us throughout his epistles that we are saved by grace through faith. Water baptism does is not a conduit for the Holy Spirit. God places the Holy Spirit within us the moment we believe (Acts 10:44 and 11:15-17).
Father Behr speaks convincingly of some genuine problems facing Orthodoxy (and almost all Christian offshoot communities, frankly) at present. But neither he nor any other major Christian doctrinal authority/tradition addresses the greatest and most staggering source of theological contradiction and tension within all of Christianity itself, and within Christianity’s relationship to the non-Christian world. Namely, no explanation is being offered to counter the harrowing falsehood that exists at the bedrock of Christian belief: the lie about the primordial “Fall” of humanity from an initial state of perfection/immortality/unimpeded grace, etc. into a state of struggle and aimlessness and hardship and loss of grace. A supposed “Fall,” due to our species’s *own* culpability (by simply *being* imperfect, error-prone creatures?!?) that not only ripped us from a formerly immaculate and immortal existence, but which also had such horrific ramifications that it transformed the entire planet itself into a habitat of struggle, war, and dog-eat-dog hardship, whereas that habitat had supposedly been a trouble-free “paradise” beforehand.
The fact remains that today’s human beings know, through appropriate gifts of scientific study, that the Genesis myth (however well-intentioned) is a mistaken model that can no longer be employed to explain, sanely, the reality of the origin and *reason* for human suffering and supposed separation from God, much less the reality that this is and has always been a planet of constant, often cataclysmic conflict and hardship and struggle. The human race (much less its first two supposed members) was never immortal or error-free or traipsing about with God in a garden. The human species evolved after millions of years of relentless pain, suffering, hardship, disease, extinctions, and once humans reached a level of sentience which allowed them to realize and reflect upon just how harsh and unforgiving life on this planet can be, they faced even *greater* anxiety and pain and struggle-not because of some paradise-smashing “Fall” caused by their own primordial error. Humans and our humanoid ancestors have been subjected to trial and error, screwing up (and warring and killing and being eaten by disease and predators) since we existed. There was no Garden of Human Immortality. Period. We know that, now. The ancients throughout the history of Christian thought were not able to know that, so Genesis was all they had, and it’s not their “fault” for sticking to that story in order to make sense of the world, in some respects.
But the jig is up, now.
People with any measure of sense know that the foundational myth of Christian culpability is false.
This is a conflict of such terrifying doctrinal, philosophical, psychological, and existential proportions and implications that I am aghast at the silence of contemporary theologians in this regard. It makes of Christianity (and certainly of Roman Catholic/Protestant Christianity, with its largely Augustinian concepts of Original Sin and concupiscence) a house of cards. The entirety of the West is sensing this and millions feel rightly bamboozled. So bamboozled that millions are turning completely away into smug forms of atheism and a genuine idolatry centered upon nihilistic secularism and/or hedonism. These problems are spreading rapidly. And the Churches are doing N.O.T.H.I.N.G.
The answer is not to make the doctrine of the Church(es) more secular or modern. Hardly! But a sensible reinterpretation of the foundational doctrine of human origins-which has shattering repercussions for the entirety of Orthodox Christian soteriology-is mandatory. The irony, perhaps, is that the Orthodox are best equipped among all churches to rectify this grave crisis because their belief in theosis leaves much greater room for a revised understanding and subsequent evangelism of the actuality of human origins and even universal origins ... yet the Orthodox are the *least* likely to take up this cause because of their immobility when it comes to the preservation of tradition.
I have no problem with my faith that Christ is indeed the Logos-made-flesh and that His incarnation/death/resurrection have “redeemed” the very matter of the universe, as well as human souls via baptism, Eucharist, and loving, active faith.
But these times find people aware of the universe and of the truth about human origins in ways never before possible or accessible to them in recorded history, and the vastness of the conflict between the Christian origin myth and scientific earthly reality is abysmal. All of Christian doctrine is threaded with and colored by the incorrect understanding-unintentional falsehood-of a primordial Fall. And we are seeing the ramifications of that disastrous, discordant note in Western culture right now.
But please notice that I said all of Christian *doctrine* is colored by a false understanding of actual human temporal/spiritual origins. Christ, however, is not colored by any of this. The Person of Christ is not in jeopardy, and theosis/salvation is not in jeopardy. I cannot be the only believer in Christ who is horrified by this dichotomy and its effect upon the wider spiritual health of the West.
What will the churches do? Simply ignore this complete sundering of reasonable, logical theology and tell us to “pretend” we don’t see what is clear? To take the Genesis tale (and its now-absurd ramifications) literally?
Shall we hope the world falls into another Dark Age when all useful and beneficial scientific knowledge is lost and myths can be promulgated once more? What about souls living now, who need and deserve the Light of Christ?
I would hope that Orthodoxy might, by some miracle, take on this doom-riddled theological dilemma, because I believe that Orthodoxy otherwise possesses the closest vision of the Person of Christ that can be shared on this earth, and certainly in the unfailing mystery of the Eucharist.
A disservice is being done to the Gospel exhortation of Christ to teach, and to millions of souls who need to know Him, but who are perhaps prevented from accepting the gift of faith in His Person because we have discovered that the bedrock portrayal of our human origins in ancient canonical texts-and the doctrinal/existential ramifications of that portrayal-is not only flawed but false.
We are fallen. Nothing else makes sense.
Love how neither of these responses have even a sliver of depth the original comment does.
Unfortunately, the USA is not an ethnic population. It would be great if it was.
A video on homosexuality might be good.
Tiresome topic
The oldies filter is silly.
Except when it's useful...there is, believe it or not, method to my madness!
Protecting Veil anything to do with point one of his talk!!!
The greatest challenges are the homosexual clergy, ecumenism and modernism.
!Warning!
Fordham university
This is call for "reformation" of the Orthodoxy... he is completely misunderstanding The Church. Sadly. Can't support this video.
So the "profound" "genius" of the Orthodox church is depicting historical occurrences contrary to the Holy Bible? Based on later invented traditions? That is certainly profound indeed. A profound recipe for disaster! And now you refuse correction because that would be giving in to "modernity". It does not get more ungodly and lame than that.
Are you replying to someone? I'd be interested to see the context in which you're commenting.
Im commenting on what Behr says in the video!
Minucius I would suggest you revisit what he might mean, and what might be meant by the iconography and what father Behr is referring to. It’s doing SOMETHING ELSE.
How are you today? I see your pfp, maybe God softened your heart
@@nathanael5606 Im fine thanks, hope you are well too! Has God "softened" my heart to accept Eastern Orthodoxy? No, He has not.
Father Behr is not aware of the corruption modernity has wrought upon him. The blind leading the blind. That is the ultimate conquest of the corruption of our time. A corruption Christ warned about. I’d say this Father needs to let Christ live in him first. Then he will have the help and answers he wants to guide others back to life. And I would like to imagine that will only take submitting to God and his Son, our Lord Jesus Christ. Perhaps easy, perhaps not.
Momma Llama your lack of charity and respect is disturbing