After living with this device for a while and due to the limited availability, I'm now recommending the Ifi Zen Blue instead of the Topping. amzn.to/32wEcmo
Answered my question! Thanks! You have fired up the audio bug in me again. Video suggestion if you haven’t already, Cambridge audio dac vs Soundavio dac? See you at the next cupa coffee…
Terrible nerdy queck quack . Not for ex analog cable FM listerers who are forced to go digital only. I look for understandable reviews dig tuners with internet and dig antenna for cable companies. But less expensive as Argon 3m .
I instantly subscribed when you said "This is not about looking down on someone because they spend less on something than someone else". You're so humble when you talk and you have a big heart, bless you!
Randy, I appreciate your philosophy and enjoy your content. I have recently repurposed an iPhone 6 to be my streamer/source. For music on the phone I use VOX in order to play any HiRes files I have purchased as well as other music files. I have also installed Qobuz and stream from their library. The iPhone is wired to a Schiit Modi 3 DAC which is hooked to a Schiit Magni 3+. Glad to hear your comments on this approach of repurposing. And, it is a green solution! No old phone in the landfill and zero energy to make something new.
Wow one of the best straight forward no nonsense reviews I've seen in a look time and he right, there's no need to go out and spend hundreds on a streamer when you've got products like these that do exactly the same thing and sound as good. Thanks and I've subscribed🙂
I’ll have to argue the best music streamer is a turntable. In all seriousness I agree. I use a laptop or an ipad out to a dac for my streaming. I tried the raspberry pi and hated the apps. Music lovers use equipment to listen to music. Audiophiles use music to listen to their equipment.
“Music lovers use equipment to listen to music. Audiophiles use music to listen to their equipment.” Best quote surrounding this hobby I’ve ever heard.
On a Pi, you can use a ton of different operating systems. I simply use Hifiberry OS which allows me to stream from any phone app that allows airplay. Nothing more to it. No Pi interface to deal with after setup.
Thank you! Been doing this cheap method of streaming music for the last three or four years as it's convenient and allows any of my portable Android devices to wirelessly stream my bookmarked Internet radio stations to my various music rigs around the house. Keeps my kids, my wife and myself happy which is most important in maintaining peace at home. Keep those suggestions and videos coming.
I just use my gaming PC which is hidden behind the TV in the living room. I know some people would say a PC like that would be too noisy, but to my ears it sounds fine. Got it connected to a Hegel HD11 dac.
Thanks. You can optical out right into the magni if you like the sound of that DAC or try it straight into your amp. It’s internal DAC is actually very good. Try the amazon hd music for free. And see if you can tell a difference. I have a link to a free 3 month trial to amazon music hd. Check one of my recent videos and there’s a link for it.
@@cheapaudioman have you found that your tab a 10.5 no longer supports the aptx hd codec? I'm not certain if maybe after updating mine to android 10 it disappeared, as I updated it prior to checking the bluetooth codecs available.
@@cheapaudioman yes, ldac is still there, as well as at least regular aptx...kind of strange....I guess samsung is known to do this with the codecs...a bit disappointing, but I did hook up the bc3 last night to my musical fidelity v90 dac via optical, playing through my hifi and it works wonderfully!! Not sure, but can I use ldac with amazon music hd, if I decide to try it?
@@tonydeniro284 yes you certainly can. BT doesn't care about what it's sending as long as the device and the receiver both have the same codec and are configured for the same codec. The codec just packages data on the device side and unpacks it on the receiver side. I use LDAC with Amazon HD all the time, my friend
i took a raspberry pi and a hifiberry digital out hat (additional card) and an external ssd drive and made a standalone music server that can be controlled via touchscreen/phone/tablet/PC. If you have a usb drive on hand you can do the whole thing for under $100. The good part is that since it's a direct connection from the Pi to my stereo/dac I don't have to worry about the network once I pick what I want to play.
You’re amazing man… I was searching for this on yt for a very long time and came across streaming devices for hundreds and thousands of dollars, I thought well that’s it, let’s see in ten years maybe I’ll be able to set up loan to buy this 😂😭 Nope… Watched this video and ordered this little ideal receiver right away! Already bought 4 products based on your content, best bargains ever done ✅
Great video! I just got into audio for movies and games in my room and your videos are gems to watch. I see you are a wristwatch connoisseur as well as you are spotting a Rolex Air-King. This is what UA-cam should be.
my music streamer is my TV. Amazon music, XMradio, You Tube for a little visual stimulation, though you tube sounds like crap. I like the sound of Amazon.
My current streamer setup is a Chromecast ($30) into an HDMI audio extractor ($20). I run that into a receiver I got used with a Klipsch 5.1 speaker set and speaker wire all for $75. I'm shocked I was able to get a complete setup for $125. Even if you factor in that the rear channels didn't work on that receiver, and I got a better one (also used) or $50, I still paid less than $200 for a complete home theater sound system. I remember asking on a forum for recommendations for an amp, dac, headphones, and speakers with an overall budget of $300. Multiple people told me to just pick one with that budget. The most I ever spent on HiFi was my Sennheiser HD58x, and it's the worst purchase I've ever made in the space. I enjoy my Moondrop Quarks more.
Hi there, I have Marantz na6006 with HEOS, sound good, interface not so and no Qobuz integration. Used Qobuz through Samsung tablet usb into Marantz HD dac1. Sound as good, interface better,also have usb audio pro, for 6 dollars, very good value. Now have Roon on pc, library on NAS, old Squeezebox touch as end point into DAC with coax connection. Does up to 24/96 hires and this is the best sound I've achieved. Roon interface and Qobuz integration very good. Roon was this year's upgrade and am very happy to have my old touch back again. Not sure though if Roon or the coaxial connection made the difference but there it is. Good interesting video, have subscribed thanks.👍
I hated my NA6006. I've loved marantz for years, but they QC is terrible now and customer care is beyond lacking. Be sure to keep the analogue outs connected else you won't be able to stream DSD :)
First off as a music fanatic of modest means I LOVE your channel and greatly appreciate your tips and advice. It has helped me immensely and allowed me to enjoy music even more. Will I benefit from this set up: Amazon HD from Galaxy tab directly into Aiyima T9 to JBL A130? Significantly better than BT? Would adding a SMSL Sanskrit into the chain be better? Thanks so much again.
I’m a Tidal sub. I get the veterans discount so no significant difference in cost. But I tried Amazon HD. SQ was subjectively as good as Tidal. But no “Connect” feature was the killer. I understand that Amazon wants to push their product. But I like convenience.
Hi Randy< It is strange as a grown up man to say I'm a huge fan of your channel. But it is. I watch your youtube video's like I watch TV (which I don't have ;-)). But I want to ask you something. I have a old luxmann r800 receiver and in order to "stream" my music I have a prozor 192 kHz dac with bluetooth. I ordered it on aliexpress and it is not a bad dac! But if I play a cd (or use the radio) on this very same receiver, it is much much louder! Even if everything is on max volume, incl my phone. I was wondering it that is a bluetooth issue, or a typical prozor (cheap ass dac thing) issue. And if I buy this amazing topping, do I have the same (volume) problem?! All the best! Keep up the good work!! Martijn (The Netherlands). P.s. I also have the SMSL SA300, and this amp does not play very loud, as you might expect due to the watt the amp have. If I stream to it with bluetooth. Which is more than enough to get you in trouble with the neighbors (I have a pair with markaudio allpair 10 and various Sonab (made in Sweden) loudspeakers.
Forgive me to say, I would like the person who is telling about a thing to look me in the eye and say what he want to say. Through out the video you were looking down at your desk and the gadgets as if you are not confident enough to convince me with your thoughts. Nevertheless thank you for putting the time to produce this video and reading my comment. Have a nice day
The USB on the Raspberry Pi 4 is a good upgrade over the v3. On the v3 the Ethernet used the USB, causing electrical noise. On the v4 it's been decoupled, so the USB is cleaner. A good PSU like the Ifi Ipower is a good upgrade too.
This video is a few years older, today 5th December 2023 I purchased th latest amazon fire hd 8 with Bluetooth 5.2 & 1 tb memory card to put on my 3000 flac albums & streamed them through my bluetooth YMOO Optical Bluetooth 5.3 Adapter Audio for TV Speaker/Bluetooth Headphone/Plane1 , 2 in 1 Toslink & 3.5mm Bluetooth Transmitter and Receiver for Lossless Stereo Audio, Dual Link aptX LL,130ft Range Optical. & it sounds great.
May I ask you to explain things rather than spending time being melancholic? What is the thing you held up? State what it is and what is needed. Does it need a DAC or not, etc...?
Hi Randy, I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your youtube channel. So keep up the good work. My experience with this streamers is very good, sound quality wise. But the sound level output is pretty crappy, low output/low volume, when I stream from all my devices (apple, samsung, "windy hoos" laptop). Is this device a exception to most others? Did you try the sonab speakers already?
This is a year old but I’ve only just seen it! Very useful! I don’t have a streamer, but I’m probably going to get the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE dac with pre, so I’m thinking I can hook up this cheap little LDAC thing to the Holo via their optical connectors, then stream HD digital from my phone to my hifi! It’s worth a try!
The problem I find in using Bluetooth if your phone is the music source is that you are transmiting to the BT receiver all the sound in the phone, inlcuding calls and notifications. Instead a BT receiver I prefer to use a Chromecast Audio or a simple Chromecast with a HDMI toslink converter. Very cheap solutions that also allows to you a multi-room use ;)
Hi Randy, love your videos and have used several of your product recommendations. In this video I am still a bit confused on how to hook up an iPad to my Hi Fi system. I want to use my iPad as my Music Streamer primarily using Amazon HD Unlimited. I originally thought I could go from my iPad to my Outboard DAC to my Hi Fi. I am not concerned about super high resolution audio. CD quality is perfect for my needs. Anyway, do I really need a Bluetooth device between my iPad and my Hi Fi ? Thanks 🙏
For sure get the Amazon link and hook it up to Alexa. $200 and true streaming. I haven’t done the review yet but it your heavy Amazon music user it’s a no brainer.
@@cheapaudioman , thanks Randy ! Your the BEST 😎 Actually waiting for Prime Day in 2 more weeks, June 21st this year. The Echo Link is already sitting in my Amazon Save for Later checkout basket. Hoping there will be a significant discount on Prime Day 🙏 For anyone else interested, Amazon just recently lowered the price for Amazon HD Unlimited. If your a Prime Member, the monthly subscription is even lower. Plus the first 4 months are FREE, if your a new subscriber. Enjoy 😉
Thanks Man. I am entering this world for the first time and your thoughts on cost have given me hope. I just like music and want to enjoy it more. I appreciate the info!
I use for years a chromecast audio (circa 25 usd, used only). It has optical out, it has analogue out, and works on every app on android. Also, support groups, integration etc. And the music doesnt go through your phone, so you may even trun it off. You could also stream from your pc. The problem is that Google stopped selling this (probably to sell their own allinone things). But you can still get a new chromecast with hdmi and extract optical out/coax to your DAC. Cheers from Poland
I just use the TV's optical out to my DAC through my Chromecast. Works great. it upscales everything to 48khz but I don't mind or notice. Sounds great. And I get album art. But the tv does need to be on. Or I'll airplay to the tv itself which also goes out the optical to the DAC and also sounds great
Great video from you. I was wondering if you could do a video on speaker isolation. You can buy very cheap nobosound springs to fit under the speakers and i think they do as good a job as the much more expensive townshend spring ones. You gave great tips on how to save a packet.
As a newbie to streaming, I would've like to have 60 to 120 seconds of 'introduction' to the concept of a 'home NAS' and it's benefits to home (or office) dwellers. Then, the concept of streaming one's music would make a lot more sense. Otherwise, the above video was good.
I can elaborate for you : a NAS means "Network Attached Storage ". If you imagine it like a USB stick, but it can hold A LOT more data. U usb stick can hold maybe up to 30 gigabytes of data, where as a NAS can hold many terabytes of data (some even more). A NAS can be used for all manner of applications, they can store photos, videos, documents, you can back up your computer to them, pretty much the options of data types are limitless. However, those that have a passion for videos/ Movies, Music or both will have a NAS dedicated purely for these purposes. The word "Synology" was mentioned, that's just a brand name of NAS, there are many in the same way, computers have many brand names. As for "the concept " of streaming music, well depending upon your stand point with audio, firstly it allows you to be able to get rid of that pile of or wall of CDs and have them all in a small (ish) box as a series of zeros and ones (basically, stored on your NAS). You can also join "streaming services " like Tidal, Qobuz and ithers and download all manner of music that you like in very high quality (and believe it or not, even higher quality than cd). So, now you have a NAS, your CDs are in the NAS, it now also means that anything connected to your Internet router either by WiFi or LAN cable can acces the NAS and "stream " that music or video. It's definitely a convenience, but for some the initial outlay and/or the technical setup side is too much to take on and so don't venture down this route. I hope hope this gives you more clarity 🙂
Off to work now but afterward I’m going to check out more of your videos. Digital streaming is for me the biggest learning curve since I was ten, learning what a turntable jack was of the back of my brother’s Muntz 8-track (1973). Easy to get led to believe on other channels you need to spend a lot on stacks of multiple dacs, Bluetooth or wifi receivers, streamers, only to find out you’re still in mp3 land. Not that I can tell the diff between mp3 and 24/96.
Hi, just seen your video. Wanted to buy a streamer but you are totally right about the apps. i had a Blue note streamer and I hated the GUI. Now I am using the Qobuz outlay and I find it much better. I would like to buy the ldac receiver but want to make sure my mac air sends out more than AAC. Or does the LDAC transform the AAC signal into hires(which I think is impossible)?
I watch UA-cam a lot so i have Premium $10 a month. It also comes with UA-cam stream (UA-cam gotten alot better with audio) sometimes I play music from my TV via HDMI or from my AirPlay on iPhone to a receiver
I have the node 2i. Didn’t want to pay the price but liked that it integrates to alexa for Amazon music hd. I’m about a week in and haven’t decided if I will keep it. The major reason not being the sound quality or even sound related. That’s all good! The issue is exactly what you spoke about. I hate using another app to get to my streaming services. Granted, the bluOS app is actually very well made and works flawlessly, I don’t need another app to control my other streaming apps... I am considering using AirPlay to the node but haven’t tried it yet. Great video! 👌
Thanks. This is back when my videos were really bad. Now they're just bad. I think until the streamers are able to adopt a "spotify connect" type of connection for all of the streamer services it's always going to be clunky. A good example of great integration is Roon and I wish one of the streamer companies would buy roon and then use that platform for app integration.
@@cheapaudioman i agree on the “connect” style integration. I just finished testing tidal connect through airplay to the node 2 and it’s decent. Not familiar enough to rule out amazon music yet but I’ll do more testing. I bought the node through amazon so that I had a safety net to return it if I decide to take a different route. It’s great but probably does more than I really need it to. I don’t have any local music storage and I don’t use roon. Yet...😁
Thank you!!! I appreciate your honesty and sincerity. You are so right music is about enjoyment. I’m New to this whole audiophile world and it seems like I need to have to the best of the best to really enjoy music. Happy new year!!! 🎆🎊🎈
Thanks so much. Just have some fun and don’t worry too much about your equipment. After you’ve lived with something for a while maybe think about upgrading. Excellent video about the song receiver. For $200 you can be up and running and having a ball.
I ordered a BC3. Thanks for the knowledge and great content. I need to buy a gift for my brother. What do you like out of these 4; BluDento AudioEngine B1, Prozor 192k DAC with Bluetooth Receiver with Volume Control, S.M.S.L B1, Topping BC3? Thanks
I'm new to all of this so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge but I thought I had read that connecting to Bluetooth isn't as good audio quality as connecting through Wi-Fi. If that's true, do any of the recommendations in this video still apply to connecting via Wi-Fi? Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.
Isn't there a basic streamer with LAN connection and digital-out? I do not want the music to go through my phone via wifi-in and Bluetooth-out... The music should go straight from the server in to the DAC via the streamer. I only want the phone to tell the streamer what to play, not be in the path of data transmission. I am using a big old Marantz network streamer for that purpose right now - the most awful piece of hardware I have seen in 30 years :)
Was wondering if you could give me some advice. So are you saying that the Audioengine Bluetooth receiver I have connected to my marantz sr7010 receiver is already giving me Highres audio comparable to a streamer? I either connect my galaxy s22 ultra or my FiiO M11 to the Bluetooth receiver via aptxHD and It sounds really good but I always thought I needed to buy a DAC and a steamer
He is completely on point. As long your bluetooth receiver has LDAC or Aptx for and you have a good Android device with good audio processing like Samsung Galaxy S8 upwards, Sony or Huawei with one of the above bluetotth codes, then it's the same thing. I will use Spotify, Tidal and Amazons native smartphone apps which optimized and great, instead half ass streaming apps for another platform. Unless you wanna buy 20 000 dollar speakers, 8000 dollar streamers and hear Eric Claptons subtile farting in the background of a live set, then you are just buying in the peer pressure of wannabe audio royalty and placebo.
Sorry for the noob question as I'm new to the modern side of Hi Fi- but does this mean I'm currently out of luck if I want to use this device or another Bluetooth streamer with equal sound quality as an iPhone user? I was under the impression that Bluetooth doesn't offer great sound quality. Looks like I need to do some research on Bluetooth codecs. If these Hi Fi quality devices won't work with iOS and obtaining a suitable Android device is out of budget or otherwise impractical, what's the next best cheap (sub-$100) solution for streaming high quality audio? I was looking into a Chromecast Audio.
@@rustyjeep2469 iPhones use The AAC codec and that is better than SBC Will transmit at around MP3 levels which is about what Apple Music or Spotify. It’s pretty good.
@@cheapaudioman Always! You should also mention Xbox One Gen 1 and upwards has Spotify Connect as well as Amazon Music. You dont even need your TV to be on. I dont even turn on my TV. Xbox should be connected to the same wifi network as mobile device, like other streamers. Connect Xbox with optic cable to receiver. Start your xbox. Open Spotify on phone, start song and choose xbox one and it will become a streamer. You dont need to start the Spotify app on Xbox, it starts auto when you play music from your phone. If you want you can start your TV and go to setting menu on the xbox and fiddle with audio settings like Bitstream, DTS, Dolby and so on, whatever is your sound output preference. And the turn of TV again and run Spotify Connect dark only from your phone Spotify menu. You can even turn on the Xbox with the Xbox app on your phone. Great sound as well. Xbox One was and will be the ultimate swiss army knife in the tech world.
Great video. There are so many ways to skin the same cat in audio. I have a question, could you please confirm how you do volume control , in analog or digital domain, and is there a quality difference you can hear. Cheers
Not picking at you, but wanted more info on the statement usb digital audio being bad/crappy output. (1:48) I don’t understand, are you talking about the pi having bad usb output or just usb out in general is bad. Can’t usb 2.0 support like 40MBps. Is it not well utilized? I literally have no experience with usb digital audio, but was planning on using it with something like the smsl ad18 with my pc.
Usb has issues, including noise, beyond the bitrate (and the zeroes and ones). Over my head but written about and talked about by a handful of reviewers. If you can try an A/B, probably best so you can see if you and your system noticed the diff
So this is the 1st vid of yours that caught my eye, I've seen a couple other guys mention stuff like this but never in such detail. I really thought I needed a good dedicated streamer and/or dac but now I understand things a bit better. I use spotify premium, for now, so obviously a $500 streamer would just be a waste at this time. Currently I only have a decent onkyo reciever 7.1 setup and once I find the right ldac bluetooth reciever I'll decide on a decent amp to go with it and hopefully be able to try out a couple decent speaker options too. I'm pretty sure my system sounds great but I really have no reference, so part of this process is kinda to establish a decent stereo setup and verify whether or not there's room for improvement over the onkyo, the rest is just gonna be for fun, thanks again!
@@artsmodelstation9396 I tried to do the same thing and I couldn’t get it to work. I think it was something going on with the receiver though. I’ve got one of those. I’ll try it again sometime.
And the best portable music streamer is Monolith THX Portable ~250usd + Hybi R2 ~90usd. Hybi can LDAC in / USB coax out to Monolith that has THX amp and EQ should you need it. And little Hybi accepts 2tb sd cards for your FLACs and MP3s.
Hi Randy, I bought a high resolution BT receiver with the intention of using my Samsung s21 (2021 flagship model) phone as a source for streaming Amazon HD music to my vintage Marantz (2215B) receiver. Guess what! The S21 does not support aptx hd nor LDAC, and neither do the more recent s22 and s23 flagship phones. I am not sure about other versions of the S-series (the plus and Ultra) or other models of Samsung phones. So, not all android phones support these high resolution BT codecs, and Apple phones for sure do not.
Hi all, This is an update on my post. I found how to turn on LDAC on my S21. The turn-on is in Settings, Connection, Bluetooth then click on the cog net to the bluetooth device and there is a slide switch to turn on LDAC. Then if you go into Developer Settings you will see that LDAC codec is turned. So, i apologize forbeing incorrect about the bluetooth capabilities of my S21 and also the s22 and s23 phones.
Hey Randy, I currently stream music with amazon music through my smart tv. Do you think it would make a difference in the sound if I got an outboard dac?
To be fair, even just using a soundbar will make a huge difference. Most soundbars have digital inputs, which also means they have a DAC built into them also. So it kinda covers both your cinc, you'll enjoy much better sound with better depth and clarity AND you'll be using a DAC and all in the one "box" :)
Do I need more than LDAC or Aptx HD Bluetooth for streaming only youtube music premium 256 kbps AAC? Or do I get a dedicated streamer like the Bluesound node 2i?
And I like how Randy starts talking while he’s still off camera at the start, then gets up and leaves before he’s finished talking at the end 😂🤣😂 He’s either a performance artist, or he has something better to do!
BUT the 24bis 96khz is not at same bitrate as real highres. Also not many devices can out put it at all. On phone only LG vXX series is capable to do so. The compression is same as in mp3 320kbs
My galaxy can put out 24bit up to 96. High res starts at 16 bit 44.1. So there is some high res ability in there. However, there still is compression getting it through the bt packaging requirement but it's still significantly more data than MP3.
@@cheapaudioman the Dayton BT/WiFi streamer wba 28/31 is another option around $60. I believe it’s full res over WiFi. Onboard DAC is crap but it does have spdif. I’m using it with airplay but I think it will pull various sources direct over WiFi and it also does dlna.
Thanks for the review. If I plug the Topping straight into a stereo power amp via line out, will the volume on my phone control the volume level out of the Topping?
In theory it should if you are connected to the headphone out instead of the line out but in practice it doesn't. Actual volume needs to be controlled on unit itself or through whichever amp you're using.
Airplay via Pi is better quality and allows you to use your phone apps (without lowering the quality too much like Bluetooth). Bluetooth has some codecs that have gotten pretty close, but they are still inferior. I mention this solely because Pi is even cheaper unless you add on a HAT (which can also be rather inexpensive). They can do Bluetooth, as well. I agree with you about interfaces on streamers. Streaming from a mobile device or desktop is just easier, always up to date, and you can use whatever apps you want (for the most part).
I have a pi with a hat and agree. However, for most people, the learning curve of getting a pi, installing an operating system and then navigating everything may be a bit intimidating. But I'm with you 100%. Actually thinking about dusting off my pi and installing a new operating system.
@@cheapaudioman That may all depend on what operating system you use. For example, I did a Pi and installed Raspbian, then did the Pi-Hole thing...that I could see being difficult for the non tech savvy. Using Hifiberry OS, it's such a dumbed down piece of software with so few options... the only challenge is honestly sorting out HOW to flash the OS onto the micro SD card (Baleana Etcher). If anyone is out there considering this and reading my post: get a Pi 4 kit from an authorized dealer. I think I paid around $60 and it included a case, SD card, heat sinks, PSU etc. Everything you need to get started. I have had great success here: www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-4b-budget-kit/ (you only need the 2 GB version for any audio streaming...even 1 would be more than enough). Shows $55 for the 2gb kit. For a HAT to add to this (it's plug and play, super easy), I recommend Hifiberry products. I recently used this one and have enjoyed it: www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-dac2-hd/ I've also used this, had zero issues: www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-digi-pro/ They also have less expensive DACs, a class D amplifier HAT, and a bunch of other stuff. ASR has measured some of their products, I believe, and the measurements posted by Hifiberry were extremely accurate and likely trustworthy.
I've heard that the Samsung OS will automatically compress anything that leaves the phone, which if true, would make every Samsung device on that table, obsolete when it comes to streaming high res audio.
I’m such a noob, I think I need to take a step back and really do my research I was going to go wired all day but now I’m second guessing everything after watching this
Yes it can be done cheap. I bought a cheap £10 streamer dac the other day and it works fine even the dac is good, it's not as good as my £3000 dac but it's still good. But I could blind test it with people and I'm sure half wouldn't guess which one cost 3k!
Here's the problem with streaming Amazon HD and ULTRA HD through a Bluetooth dongle: Bluetooth doesn't stream at HD levels. In fact, when in Amazon Music, click on the yellow HD symbol. It will tell you the quality. Here's the dumb thing... Amazon released Amazon Music HD and HD Ultra without it's own UI player that plays Ultra quality. Fire TV and my Mi Box only stream at CD quality, and the same goes for all my other Google TV boxes. I love the Amazon TV interface, but refuse to use my phone to cast to something else. But it doesn't matter when that device isn't HD Ultra quality. I want it all integrated. After weeks of stops and starts, and about $300 spent on a Pi 4 and Hifi Berry DAC+, I still couldn't solve it. I found the easiest answer is to stream through your PC by going into the sound settings. It allows you to up the quality. I then use a Schitt Modi 2 Uber to stream through into my system. It works well. I may have found an even better way. I'll let you know.
When BTing from the phone to the BC3 the actual bit rate is limited by your device which is generally 24/96 on an android device. The topping can Bluetooth that bit and sample rate. The problem is that the throughput generally maxes at around 900 and change while cd quality is 1600 or so. I feel your pain with amazon hd. Even streaming devices that “support” amazon hd, to your point, only play at 16/44 with the exception of the HEOS app which will play at max resolution. However, with using the HEOS app the amazon hd integration is very clunky and doesn’t access the “my music” portion of one’s account. Even the amazon link, a device that is marketed at adding amazon hd into a hifi system, plays only at 16/44. It seems that Amazon hd music is not well integrated into really any devices. Again, to your point, the best option is simply through a pc. Otherwise it’s awkward to get the fullest resolution.
@@cheapaudioman Thank you for your thoughtful and kind reply. I'm still wandering through the maze, but I refuse to buy something that isn't directly connected to my audio setup. The PC setup I'm currently using is a last resort. I want an Amazon Music App connected to a TV or monitor that plays through my system. No casting. No tablet. I want connectivity. You would think this isn't asking much, but it clearly is. I enjoy your channel.
I Like your content, I also like Amazon music, great quality and cheap especially the family deal, I use a Google pixel phone with high quality UBC cable to my chord mojo DAC and a pair of old Sennisiser hd 600 headphones with USB Audio pro App to get around Android limitations on bit rate/sampling, I find Bluetooth limited even with ldac you will not get high resolution due to max bit rate of 990 kB speed and you will be lucky to get the max as most phones can't, cheers Dave.
Hi Randy. Thank you for your kind explaination on music streamers etc I guess Raspberry Pi (with a dedicated Hifi HAT) makes a more complicated and less convinient way to stream music from internet music atreaming services like spotify etc. Do you ever face any drop outs or simmilar interuptions when using LDAC and this little bluetooth device? Is it prone to interuptions when your phone/tablet is too far from the bluetooth receiver like 20 feet or so? You actually made me buy one of these little guys. Thank you brother. God bless. Sani
I think the rasberry pi with a hifi hat can be a very effective spotify end point. I'd recommend ethernet connection though as the wifi on mine is spotty at best. I think with a hardwired connection it can be a good lower cost solution. BT can and will drop out with distance of course. The BC3 is also small so the antennae will also be small. I think it performed as well as other BT devices but this would be an "in room" solution instead of streaming through the internet. I just don't think that internet streaming from dedicated devices is quite there yet. I also did a review on the Marantz NR1711 where I talk about it's streaming shortfalls. I'd like to get my hands on the Bluesound Node 2i as I've heard better things about it. Good luck and thanks so much for watching.
Agreed Fully! I have a $20 Chromecast Audio, using optical out, and I cannot find a reason to go to anything else. I can use the native app on any platform and stream 24/96 audio. Why pay hundreds of dollars?
I'm using a Cambridge Audio AXA25 integrated amplifier with analog only RCA inputs. Can I connect this Topping BC3 to one of those inputs via the Topping headphone out and get great sound? Or will it sound bad? It would be using the DAC inside the Topping of course.
In short, no. The inputs on your cambridge (nice choice by the way) are at a fixed "line level " and without getting to in depth, a headphone output is not only variable, but also gives out way to much volume for a line input. Doing as you suggest would do more harm than good. Topping make great DACs and all the ones i know of have "line output" sockets at the back. Check yours. It maybe 3.5mm or they may be red and white phono/rca connections. Either way, the word you need to look for is "Line". All your inputs on any hifi equipment (except phono (turntable) ) require line level signals :)
After living with this device for a while and due to the limited availability, I'm now recommending the Ifi Zen Blue instead of the Topping. amzn.to/32wEcmo
Answered my question! Thanks! You have fired up the audio bug in me again.
Video suggestion if you haven’t already, Cambridge audio dac vs Soundavio dac?
See you at the next cupa coffee…
Terrible nerdy queck quack . Not for ex analog cable FM listerers who are forced to go digital only. I look for understandable reviews dig tuners with internet and dig antenna for cable companies. But less expensive as Argon 3m .
Zen Blue, also unavailable.
No longer available. Do you have another suggestion?
My zen blue v2 just stopped working on digital out
I instantly subscribed when you said "This is not about looking down on someone because they spend less on something than someone else". You're so humble when you talk and you have a big heart, bless you!
I did the exact same thing
Absolutely. Thanks Randy!
Randy, I appreciate your philosophy and enjoy your content. I have recently repurposed an iPhone 6 to be my streamer/source. For music on the phone I use VOX in order to play any HiRes files I have purchased as well as other music files. I have also installed Qobuz and stream from their library. The iPhone is wired to a Schiit Modi 3 DAC which is hooked to a Schiit Magni 3+. Glad to hear your comments on this approach of repurposing. And, it is a green solution! No old phone in the landfill and zero energy to make something new.
Wow one of the best straight forward no nonsense reviews I've seen in a look time and he right, there's no need to go out and spend hundreds on a streamer when you've got products like these that do exactly the same thing and sound as good. Thanks and I've subscribed🙂
I’ll have to argue the best music streamer is a turntable.
In all seriousness I agree. I use a laptop or an ipad out to a dac for my streaming. I tried the raspberry pi and hated the apps.
Music lovers use equipment to listen to music. Audiophiles use music to listen to their equipment.
Accurate
“Music lovers use equipment to listen to music. Audiophiles use music to listen to their equipment.” Best quote surrounding this hobby I’ve ever heard.
On a Pi, you can use a ton of different operating systems. I simply use Hifiberry OS which allows me to stream from any phone app that allows airplay. Nothing more to it. No Pi interface to deal with after setup.
You should put that on a T-shirt.
@@ericnortan9012 Could probably figure out a better slogan. “Listen to the Music not the Gear” or equipment.
Thank you! Been doing this cheap method of streaming music for the last three or four years as it's convenient and allows any of my portable Android devices to wirelessly stream my bookmarked Internet radio stations to my various music rigs around the house. Keeps my kids, my wife and myself happy which is most important in maintaining peace at home. Keep those suggestions and videos coming.
I just use my gaming PC which is hidden behind the TV in the living room. I know some people would say a PC like that would be too noisy, but to my ears it sounds fine. Got it connected to a Hegel HD11 dac.
by using a dac u do the processing out of the pc so thas fine
Really enjoying your very honest, non-elitist reviews keep up the good work for the everyday hifi enthusiast!
I'm in! I use pandora thru a Schiit dac and old Rotel amp from my laptop. All hardwired. Never thought of upgrading the source! Great review!!!
Thanks. You can optical out right into the magni if you like the sound of that DAC or try it straight into your amp. It’s internal DAC is actually very good. Try the amazon hd music for free. And see if you can tell a difference. I have a link to a free 3 month trial to amazon music hd. Check one of my recent videos and there’s a link for it.
@@cheapaudioman have you found that your tab a 10.5 no longer supports the aptx hd codec? I'm not certain if maybe after updating mine to android 10 it disappeared, as I updated it prior to checking the bluetooth codecs available.
@@tonydeniro284 yeah. That’s what happened to mine too. LDAC still works though
@@cheapaudioman yes, ldac is still there, as well as at least regular aptx...kind of strange....I guess samsung is known to do this with the codecs...a bit disappointing, but I did hook up the bc3 last night to my musical fidelity v90 dac via optical, playing through my hifi and it works wonderfully!! Not sure, but can I use ldac with amazon music hd, if I decide to try it?
@@tonydeniro284 yes you certainly can. BT doesn't care about what it's sending as long as the device and the receiver both have the same codec and are configured for the same codec. The codec just packages data on the device side and unpacks it on the receiver side. I use LDAC with Amazon HD all the time, my friend
i took a raspberry pi and a hifiberry digital out hat (additional card) and an external ssd drive and made a standalone music server that can be controlled via touchscreen/phone/tablet/PC. If you have a usb drive on hand you can do the whole thing for under $100. The good part is that since it's a direct connection from the Pi to my stereo/dac I don't have to worry about the network once I pick what I want to play.
Nice, simple, straightforward, honest advice about high VFM audio electronics. Nice
You’re amazing man… I was searching for this on yt for a very long time and came across streaming devices for hundreds and thousands of dollars,
I thought well that’s it, let’s see in ten years maybe I’ll be able to set up loan to buy this 😂😭
Nope… Watched this video and ordered this little ideal receiver right away! Already bought 4 products based on your content, best bargains ever done ✅
Wow, an honest review without the garbage or hard sell. Thanks subbed!
I'm in restaurant supply, I sell meat. Don't get me going on chefs & cooks.
It's worth noting that on some phones you need to force AptX/HD over LDAC by activating developer mode on the phone (Pixel 4XL for myself).
i have the Innomaker bluetooth DAC to connect to my old TEAC receiver in the garage and it works great, pretty clean sound. I think I paid $70
Great video! I just got into audio for movies and games in my room and your videos are gems to watch. I see you are a wristwatch connoisseur as well as you are spotting a Rolex Air-King. This is what UA-cam should be.
You're honest and brave enough to tell the truth. Aptx hd or ldac receiver and dac/amp is all we need.
my music streamer is my TV. Amazon music, XMradio, You Tube for a little visual stimulation, though you tube sounds like crap. I like the sound of Amazon.
Wow. I love the look-back. Was this the premiere video?
I've bought bc3 7 months ago and this small thing made me happy. I've spent only 60 USD instead of 1500 USD for the same sound quality!
Additional info: I've compared bc3 and ibasso dx220 (via SPDIF). Ibasso sounds MUCH better! Going to buy it next month.
My current streamer setup is a Chromecast ($30) into an HDMI audio extractor ($20). I run that into a receiver I got used with a Klipsch 5.1 speaker set and speaker wire all for $75. I'm shocked I was able to get a complete setup for $125.
Even if you factor in that the rear channels didn't work on that receiver, and I got a better one (also used) or $50, I still paid less than $200 for a complete home theater sound system.
I remember asking on a forum for recommendations for an amp, dac, headphones, and speakers with an overall budget of $300. Multiple people told me to just pick one with that budget. The most I ever spent on HiFi was my Sennheiser HD58x, and it's the worst purchase I've ever made in the space. I enjoy my Moondrop Quarks more.
Hi there, I have Marantz na6006 with HEOS, sound good, interface not so and no Qobuz integration. Used Qobuz through Samsung tablet usb into Marantz HD dac1. Sound as good, interface better,also have usb audio pro, for 6 dollars, very good value.
Now have Roon on pc, library on NAS, old Squeezebox touch as end point into DAC with coax connection. Does up to 24/96 hires and this is the best sound I've achieved. Roon interface and Qobuz integration very good. Roon was this year's upgrade and am very happy to have my old touch back again. Not sure though if Roon or the coaxial connection made the difference but there it is. Good interesting video, have subscribed thanks.👍
I hated my NA6006. I've loved marantz for years, but they QC is terrible now and customer care is beyond lacking. Be sure to keep the analogue outs connected else you won't be able to stream DSD :)
Hi.
Love you channel! Its refreshing!
Can you tell me what bluetooth ldac reciever that costs $60 is?
Thanks
Subscribed! Whats the best way to stream a local collection and be able access it from anywhere,through a web interface?
First off as a music fanatic of modest means I LOVE your channel and greatly appreciate your tips and advice. It has helped me immensely and allowed me to enjoy music even more.
Will I benefit from this set up: Amazon HD from Galaxy tab directly into Aiyima T9 to JBL A130? Significantly better than BT? Would adding a SMSL Sanskrit into the chain be better?
Thanks so much again.
Hope your channel grows. Like it 👍🏻
Thanks. We've grown a ton since this video came out. Almost embarrassed by these
@@cheapaudioman Nah, you shouldn't be. You bring a subtle humor, Zach Galifianakis, style approach to your channel. 👍🏻
The Node 2i now supports Tidal Connect to, which greatly improved the usability for me. Love the Node 2i :)
I really want to try one of those out
@@cheapaudioman I can only recommend it! It's great!
I’m a Tidal sub. I get the veterans discount so no significant difference in cost. But I tried Amazon HD. SQ was subjectively as good as Tidal. But no “Connect” feature was the killer. I understand that Amazon wants to push their product. But I like convenience.
Hi Randy<
It is strange as a grown up man to say I'm a huge fan of your channel. But it is. I watch your youtube video's like I watch TV (which I don't have ;-)). But I want to ask you something. I have a old luxmann r800 receiver and in order to "stream" my music I have a prozor 192 kHz dac with bluetooth. I ordered it on aliexpress and it is not a bad dac! But if I play a cd (or use the radio) on this very same receiver, it is much much louder! Even if everything is on max volume, incl my phone. I was wondering it that is a bluetooth issue, or a typical prozor (cheap ass dac thing) issue. And if I buy this amazing topping, do I have the same (volume) problem?!
All the best! Keep up the good work!! Martijn (The Netherlands).
P.s. I also have the SMSL SA300, and this amp does not play very loud, as you might expect due to the watt the amp have. If I stream to it with bluetooth. Which is more than enough to get you in trouble with the neighbors (I have a pair with markaudio allpair 10 and various Sonab (made in Sweden) loudspeakers.
You sound like you’re confronting your teenage son who got his girlfriend pregnant. I couldn’t make eye with my son if that happened either.
Forgive me to say, I would like the person who is telling about a thing to look me in the eye and say what he want to say. Through out the video you were looking down at your desk and the gadgets as if you are not confident enough to convince me with your thoughts.
Nevertheless thank you for putting the time to produce this video and reading my comment.
Have a nice day
You are so right! The probleme today is that most hifi reviewers are ignorant and probably tonedeaf!
The USB on the Raspberry Pi 4 is a good upgrade over the v3. On the v3 the Ethernet used the USB, causing electrical noise. On the v4 it's been decoupled, so the USB is cleaner. A good PSU like the Ifi Ipower is a good upgrade too.
I just use my AirPort Express WiFi router for streaming. 3.5 to RCA to my McIntosh pre amp and it works and sounds great to my ears
Are the dac chips in the Topping and Zen Blue better than any commercial integrated amps/systems?
This video is a few years older, today 5th December 2023 I purchased th latest amazon fire hd 8 with Bluetooth 5.2 & 1 tb memory card to put on my 3000 flac albums & streamed them through my bluetooth YMOO Optical Bluetooth 5.3 Adapter Audio for TV Speaker/Bluetooth Headphone/Plane1 , 2 in 1 Toslink & 3.5mm Bluetooth Transmitter and Receiver for Lossless Stereo Audio, Dual Link aptX LL,130ft Range
Optical. & it sounds great.
May I ask you to explain things rather than spending time being melancholic? What is the thing you held up? State what it is and what is needed. Does it need a DAC or not, etc...?
Hi Randy,
I cannot tell you how much I appreciate your youtube channel. So keep up the good work.
My experience with this streamers is very good, sound quality wise. But the sound level output is pretty crappy, low output/low volume, when I stream from all my devices (apple, samsung, "windy hoos" laptop). Is this device a exception to most others?
Did you try the sonab speakers already?
This is a year old but I’ve only just seen it! Very useful! I don’t have a streamer, but I’m probably going to get the Holo Audio Spring 3 KTE dac with pre, so I’m thinking I can hook up this cheap little LDAC thing to the Holo via their optical connectors, then stream HD digital from my phone to my hifi! It’s worth a try!
The problem I find in using Bluetooth if your phone is the music source is that you are transmiting to the BT receiver all the sound in the phone, inlcuding calls and notifications.
Instead a BT receiver I prefer to use a Chromecast Audio or a simple Chromecast with a HDMI toslink converter. Very cheap solutions that also allows to you a multi-room use ;)
Hi Randy, love your videos and have used several of your product recommendations. In this video I am still a bit confused on how to hook up an iPad to my Hi Fi system. I want to use my iPad as my Music Streamer primarily using Amazon HD Unlimited. I originally thought I could go from my iPad to my Outboard DAC to my Hi Fi. I am not concerned about super high resolution audio. CD quality is perfect for my needs. Anyway, do I really need a Bluetooth device between my iPad and my Hi Fi ? Thanks 🙏
For sure get the Amazon link and hook it up to Alexa. $200 and true streaming. I haven’t done the review yet but it your heavy Amazon music user it’s a no brainer.
@@cheapaudioman , thanks Randy ! Your the BEST 😎 Actually waiting for Prime Day in 2 more weeks, June 21st this year. The Echo Link is already sitting in my Amazon Save for Later checkout basket. Hoping there will be a significant discount on Prime Day 🙏 For anyone else interested, Amazon just recently lowered the price for Amazon HD Unlimited. If your a Prime Member, the monthly subscription is even lower. Plus the first 4 months are FREE, if your a new subscriber. Enjoy 😉
Thanks Man. I am entering this world for the first time and your thoughts on cost have given me hope. I just like music and want to enjoy it more. I appreciate the info!
I use for years a chromecast audio (circa 25 usd, used only). It has optical out, it has analogue out, and works on every app on android. Also, support groups, integration etc. And the music doesnt go through your phone, so you may even trun it off. You could also stream from your pc. The problem is that Google stopped selling this (probably to sell their own allinone things). But you can still get a new chromecast with hdmi and extract optical out/coax to your DAC. Cheers from Poland
+1 for Chromecast. I got mine for £24 and optical out into my DAC using Tidal. Sounds great.
I just use the TV's optical out to my DAC through my Chromecast. Works great. it upscales everything to 48khz but I don't mind or notice. Sounds great. And I get album art. But the tv does need to be on. Or I'll airplay to the tv itself which also goes out the optical to the DAC and also sounds great
Great video from you. I was wondering if you could do a video on speaker isolation. You can buy very cheap nobosound springs to fit under the speakers and i think they do as good a job as the much more expensive townshend spring ones. You gave great tips on how to save a packet.
As a newbie to streaming, I would've like to have 60 to 120 seconds of 'introduction' to the concept of a 'home NAS' and it's benefits to home (or office) dwellers. Then, the concept of streaming one's music would make a lot more sense. Otherwise, the above video was good.
I can elaborate for you : a NAS means "Network Attached Storage ". If you imagine it like a USB stick, but it can hold A LOT more data. U usb stick can hold maybe up to 30 gigabytes of data, where as a NAS can hold many terabytes of data (some even more). A NAS can be used for all manner of applications, they can store photos, videos, documents, you can back up your computer to them, pretty much the options of data types are limitless. However, those that have a passion for videos/ Movies, Music or both will have a NAS dedicated purely for these purposes. The word "Synology" was mentioned, that's just a brand name of NAS, there are many in the same way, computers have many brand names. As for "the concept " of streaming music, well depending upon your stand point with audio, firstly it allows you to be able to get rid of that pile of or wall of CDs and have them all in a small (ish) box as a series of zeros and ones (basically, stored on your NAS). You can also join "streaming services " like Tidal, Qobuz and ithers and download all manner of music that you like in very high quality (and believe it or not, even higher quality than cd). So, now you have a NAS, your CDs are in the NAS, it now also means that anything connected to your Internet router either by WiFi or LAN cable can acces the NAS and "stream " that music or video. It's definitely a convenience, but for some the initial outlay and/or the technical setup side is too much to take on and so don't venture down this route. I hope hope this gives you more clarity 🙂
Off to work now but afterward I’m going to check out more of your videos. Digital streaming is for me the biggest learning curve since I was ten, learning what a turntable jack was of the back of my brother’s Muntz 8-track (1973). Easy to get led to believe on other channels you need to spend a lot on stacks of multiple dacs, Bluetooth or wifi receivers, streamers, only to find out you’re still in mp3 land. Not that I can tell the diff between mp3 and 24/96.
Hi, just seen your video. Wanted to buy a streamer but you are totally right about the apps. i had a Blue note streamer and I hated the GUI. Now I am using the Qobuz outlay and I find it much better. I would like to buy the ldac receiver but want to make sure my mac air sends out more than AAC. Or does the LDAC transform the AAC signal into hires(which I think is impossible)?
I watch UA-cam a lot so i have Premium $10 a month. It also comes with UA-cam stream (UA-cam gotten alot better with audio) sometimes I play music from my TV via HDMI or from my AirPlay on iPhone to a receiver
I have the node 2i. Didn’t want to pay the price but liked that it integrates to alexa for Amazon music hd. I’m about a week in and haven’t decided if I will keep it. The major reason not being the sound quality or even sound related. That’s all good! The issue is exactly what you spoke about. I hate using another app to get to my streaming services. Granted, the bluOS app is actually very well made and works flawlessly, I don’t need another app to control my other streaming apps...
I am considering using AirPlay to the node but haven’t tried it yet. Great video! 👌
Thanks. This is back when my videos were really bad. Now they're just bad. I think until the streamers are able to adopt a "spotify connect" type of connection for all of the streamer services it's always going to be clunky. A good example of great integration is Roon and I wish one of the streamer companies would buy roon and then use that platform for app integration.
@@cheapaudioman i agree on the “connect” style integration. I just finished testing tidal connect through airplay to the node 2 and it’s decent. Not familiar enough to rule out amazon music yet but I’ll do more testing. I bought the node through amazon so that I had a safety net to return it if I decide to take a different route. It’s great but probably does more than I really need it to. I don’t have any local music storage and I don’t use roon. Yet...😁
Thank you!!! I appreciate your honesty and sincerity. You are so right music is about enjoyment. I’m
New to this whole audiophile world and it seems like I need to have to the best of the best to really enjoy music. Happy new year!!! 🎆🎊🎈
Thanks so much. Just have some fun and don’t worry too much about your equipment. After you’ve lived with something for a while maybe think about upgrading. Excellent video about the song receiver. For $200 you can be up and running and having a ball.
Same here. Good luck on ur journey.
My streaming device is an old Asus ZenPad S 8.0 tablet. 24-bit/48kHz. Headphone out to the receiver. I'm satisfied.
I ordered a BC3. Thanks for the knowledge and great content. I need to buy a gift for my brother. What do you like out of these 4; BluDento AudioEngine B1, Prozor 192k DAC with Bluetooth Receiver with Volume Control, S.M.S.L B1, Topping BC3? Thanks
Love what you doing thank you for your honest opinion and congrats you have a new subscriber
Thanks, man
I'm new to all of this so please forgive me for my lack of knowledge but I thought I had read that connecting to Bluetooth isn't as good audio quality as connecting through Wi-Fi. If that's true, do any of the recommendations in this video still apply to connecting via Wi-Fi? Thanks in advance for any advice or suggestions.
How is the sound quality if I used Yutube music or Spotify app on my LG smart TV optical sound out+DAC?
Isn't there a basic streamer with LAN connection and digital-out? I do not want the music to go through my phone via wifi-in and Bluetooth-out... The music should go straight from the server in to the DAC via the streamer. I only want the phone to tell the streamer what to play, not be in the path of data transmission. I am using a big old Marantz network streamer for that purpose right now - the most awful piece of hardware I have seen in 30 years :)
Absolutely beautiful video of slicing through all the existing bull crap.
Emotiva makes supposed a good Bluetooth receiver that also has a digital out to use whatever you haves DAC or upsampler
Which tablet do you recommend for this budget?
Is there a difference between this option or using my Sony Bravia TV?
There's a newer Bluesound Node than the 2i. It's just called the Node now.
Was wondering if you could give me some advice. So are you saying that the Audioengine Bluetooth receiver I have connected to my marantz sr7010 receiver is already giving me Highres audio comparable to a streamer? I either connect my galaxy s22 ultra or my FiiO M11 to the Bluetooth receiver via aptxHD and It sounds really good but I always thought I needed to buy a DAC and a steamer
He is completely on point. As long your bluetooth receiver has LDAC or Aptx for and you have a good Android device with good audio processing like Samsung Galaxy S8 upwards, Sony or Huawei with one of the above bluetotth codes, then it's the same thing. I will use Spotify, Tidal and Amazons native smartphone apps which optimized and great, instead half ass streaming apps for another platform. Unless you wanna buy 20 000 dollar speakers, 8000 dollar streamers and hear Eric Claptons subtile farting in the background of a live set, then you are just buying in the peer pressure of wannabe audio royalty and placebo.
Thank you, Redmilitiax. I feel backed up here.
Sorry for the noob question as I'm new to the modern side of Hi Fi- but does this mean I'm currently out of luck if I want to use this device or another Bluetooth streamer with equal sound quality as an iPhone user? I was under the impression that Bluetooth doesn't offer great sound quality. Looks like I need to do some research on Bluetooth codecs.
If these Hi Fi quality devices won't work with iOS and obtaining a suitable Android device is out of budget or otherwise impractical, what's the next best cheap (sub-$100) solution for streaming high quality audio? I was looking into a Chromecast Audio.
@@rustyjeep2469 iPhones use The AAC codec and that is better than SBC
Will transmit at around MP3 levels which is about what Apple Music or Spotify. It’s pretty good.
@@cheapaudioman Always! You should also mention Xbox One Gen 1 and upwards has Spotify Connect as well as Amazon Music. You dont even need your TV to be on. I dont even turn on my TV. Xbox should be connected to the same wifi network as mobile device, like other streamers. Connect Xbox with optic cable to receiver. Start your xbox. Open Spotify on phone, start song and choose xbox one and it will become a streamer. You dont need to start the Spotify app on Xbox, it starts auto when you play music from your phone. If you want you can start your TV and go to setting menu on the xbox and fiddle with audio settings like Bitstream, DTS, Dolby and so on, whatever is your sound output preference. And the turn of TV again and run Spotify Connect dark only from your phone Spotify menu. You can even turn on the Xbox with the Xbox app on your phone. Great sound as well. Xbox One was and will be the ultimate swiss army knife in the tech world.
Great video. There are so many ways to skin the same cat in audio.
I have a question, could you please confirm how you do volume control , in analog or digital domain, and is there a quality difference you can hear.
Cheers
You never say what that little black box is! I like your approach .. just can’t figure out what that little black box is!
Not picking at you, but wanted more info on the statement usb digital audio being bad/crappy output. (1:48) I don’t understand, are you talking about the pi having bad usb output or just usb out in general is bad. Can’t usb 2.0 support like 40MBps. Is it not well utilized? I literally have no experience with usb digital audio, but was planning on using it with something like the smsl ad18 with my pc.
Usb has issues, including noise, beyond the bitrate (and the zeroes and ones). Over my head but written about and talked about by a handful of reviewers. If you can try an A/B, probably best so you can see if you and your system noticed the diff
So this is the 1st vid of yours that caught my eye, I've seen a couple other guys mention stuff like this but never in such detail. I really thought I needed a good dedicated streamer and/or dac but now I understand things a bit better. I use spotify premium, for now, so obviously a $500 streamer would just be a waste at this time. Currently I only have a decent onkyo reciever 7.1 setup and once I find the right ldac bluetooth reciever I'll decide on a decent amp to go with it and hopefully be able to try out a couple decent speaker options too. I'm pretty sure my system sounds great but I really have no reference, so part of this process is kinda to establish a decent stereo setup and verify whether or not there's room for improvement over the onkyo, the rest is just gonna be for fun, thanks again!
Love the Chef v Cook analogy.
I have my appleTV connected to my receiver via a optical cable and use Spotify. Works and sounds good.
which apple tv is that? did they just upgrade to a unit with an optical out? that would be awesome if they did.
@@cheapaudioman no, but that didn’t stop me 😆 ...cheapo hdmi (has optical) converter from Amazon.
@@artsmodelstation9396 I tried to do the same thing and I couldn’t get it to work. I think it was something going on with the receiver though. I’ve got one of those. I’ll try it again sometime.
How does your solution compare with the sound quality-wise of streaming with a laptop connected to a dac?
Hi Randy what watch was that?
And the best portable music streamer is Monolith THX Portable ~250usd + Hybi R2 ~90usd. Hybi can LDAC in / USB coax out to Monolith that has THX amp and EQ should you need it. And little Hybi accepts 2tb sd cards for your FLACs and MP3s.
I heard USB is just as clean if not better than coax/optical. Digital is digital. Pis are great streaming boxes though
Hi. Love your videos. When we stream via bluetooth, does the digital to Analogue conversation happen via the DAC in the phone?
In the BT receiver going into your hifi
I’m using apple airport express connected to my schiit modi...sounds great and not limited to Bluetooth range.
Funny you mention that. We talked about that quite a bit on the patron zoom last night
Hi Randy, I bought a high resolution BT receiver with the intention of using my Samsung s21 (2021 flagship model) phone as a source for streaming Amazon HD music to my vintage Marantz (2215B) receiver. Guess what! The S21 does not support aptx hd nor LDAC, and neither do the more recent s22 and s23 flagship phones. I am not sure about other versions of the S-series (the plus and Ultra) or other models of Samsung phones. So, not all android phones support these high resolution BT codecs, and Apple phones for sure do not.
Hi all, This is an update on my post. I found how to turn on LDAC on my S21. The turn-on is in Settings, Connection, Bluetooth then click on the cog net to the bluetooth device and there is a slide switch to turn on LDAC. Then if you go into Developer Settings you will see that LDAC codec is turned. So, i apologize forbeing incorrect about the bluetooth capabilities of my S21 and also the s22 and s23 phones.
Should a Bluetooth audio receiver be connected to a DAC before going into the amp?
I just started using an Andover Audio Songbird and enjoying it very much.
This video saved me money!! Thanks alot.
Hey Randy, I currently stream music with amazon music through my smart tv. Do you think it would make a difference in the sound if I got an outboard dac?
To be fair, even just using a soundbar will make a huge difference. Most soundbars have digital inputs, which also means they have a DAC built into them also. So it kinda covers both your cinc, you'll enjoy much better sound with better depth and clarity AND you'll be using a DAC and all in the one "box" :)
Do I need more than LDAC or Aptx HD Bluetooth for streaming only youtube music premium 256 kbps AAC? Or do I get a dedicated streamer like the Bluesound node 2i?
And I like how Randy starts talking while he’s still off camera at the start, then gets up and leaves before he’s finished talking at the end 😂🤣😂 He’s either a performance artist, or he has something better to do!
BUT the 24bis 96khz is not at same bitrate as real highres. Also not many devices can out put it at all. On phone only LG vXX series is capable to do so. The compression is same as in mp3 320kbs
My galaxy can put out 24bit up to 96. High res starts at 16 bit 44.1. So there is some high res ability in there. However, there still is compression getting it through the bt packaging requirement but it's still significantly more data than MP3.
@@cheapaudioman the Dayton BT/WiFi streamer wba 28/31 is another option around $60. I believe it’s full res over WiFi. Onboard DAC is crap but it does have spdif. I’m using it with airplay but I think it will pull various sources direct over WiFi and it also does dlna.
@@MrMatthewOrlando I’m don’t have any experience with that but I’ll try it out.
Thanks for the review. If I plug the Topping straight into a stereo power amp via line out, will the volume on my phone control the volume level out of the Topping?
In theory it should if you are connected to the headphone out instead of the line out but in practice it doesn't. Actual volume needs to be controlled on unit itself or through whichever amp you're using.
I have fosi v3… i want to buy a bluetooth dac for it… which one would be better if I want to connect via rca - wiim mini or nobsound Q4 ?
yo Randy big ups that was on point
Airplay via Pi is better quality and allows you to use your phone apps (without lowering the quality too much like Bluetooth). Bluetooth has some codecs that have gotten pretty close, but they are still inferior. I mention this solely because Pi is even cheaper unless you add on a HAT (which can also be rather inexpensive). They can do Bluetooth, as well.
I agree with you about interfaces on streamers. Streaming from a mobile device or desktop is just easier, always up to date, and you can use whatever apps you want (for the most part).
I have a pi with a hat and agree. However, for most people, the learning curve of getting a pi, installing an operating system and then navigating everything may be a bit intimidating. But I'm with you 100%. Actually thinking about dusting off my pi and installing a new operating system.
@@cheapaudioman That may all depend on what operating system you use. For example, I did a Pi and installed Raspbian, then did the Pi-Hole thing...that I could see being difficult for the non tech savvy. Using Hifiberry OS, it's such a dumbed down piece of software with so few options... the only challenge is honestly sorting out HOW to flash the OS onto the micro SD card (Baleana Etcher).
If anyone is out there considering this and reading my post: get a Pi 4 kit from an authorized dealer. I think I paid around $60 and it included a case, SD card, heat sinks, PSU etc. Everything you need to get started.
I have had great success here:
www.pishop.us/product/raspberry-pi-4b-budget-kit/
(you only need the 2 GB version for any audio streaming...even 1 would be more than enough). Shows $55 for the 2gb kit.
For a HAT to add to this (it's plug and play, super easy), I recommend Hifiberry products.
I recently used this one and have enjoyed it:
www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-dac2-hd/
I've also used this, had zero issues: www.hifiberry.com/shop/boards/hifiberry-digi-pro/
They also have less expensive DACs, a class D amplifier HAT, and a bunch of other stuff. ASR has measured some of their products, I believe, and the measurements posted by Hifiberry were extremely accurate and likely trustworthy.
I've heard that the Samsung OS will automatically compress anything that leaves the phone, which if true, would make every Samsung device on that table, obsolete when it comes to streaming high res audio.
I’m such a noob, I think I need to take a step back and really do my research I was going to go wired all day but now I’m second guessing everything after watching this
Yes it can be done cheap. I bought a cheap £10 streamer dac the other day and it works fine even the dac is good, it's not as good as my £3000 dac but it's still good. But I could blind test it with people and I'm sure half wouldn't guess which one cost 3k!
Can you tell me which £10 streamer dac you bought please? I'd love to try one for that price.
Here's the problem with streaming Amazon HD and ULTRA HD through a Bluetooth dongle: Bluetooth doesn't stream at HD levels. In fact, when in Amazon Music, click on the yellow HD symbol. It will tell you the quality.
Here's the dumb thing... Amazon released Amazon Music HD and HD Ultra without it's own UI player that plays Ultra quality. Fire TV and my Mi Box only stream at CD quality, and the same goes for all my other Google TV boxes. I love the Amazon TV interface, but refuse to use my phone to cast to something else. But it doesn't matter when that device isn't HD Ultra quality. I want it all integrated.
After weeks of stops and starts, and about $300 spent on a Pi 4 and Hifi Berry DAC+, I still couldn't solve it. I found the easiest answer is to stream through your PC by going into the sound settings. It allows you to up the quality. I then use a Schitt Modi 2 Uber to stream through into my system. It works well.
I may have found an even better way. I'll let you know.
When BTing from the phone to the BC3 the actual bit rate is limited by your device which is generally 24/96 on an android device. The topping can Bluetooth that bit and sample rate. The problem is that the throughput generally maxes at around 900 and change while cd quality is 1600 or so. I feel your pain with amazon hd. Even streaming devices that “support” amazon hd, to your point, only play at 16/44 with the exception of the HEOS app which will play at max resolution. However, with using the HEOS app the amazon hd integration is very clunky and doesn’t access the “my music” portion of one’s account. Even the amazon link, a device that is marketed at adding amazon hd into a hifi system, plays only at 16/44. It seems that Amazon hd music is not well integrated into really any devices. Again, to your point, the best option is simply through a pc. Otherwise it’s awkward to get the fullest resolution.
@@cheapaudioman Thank you for your thoughtful and kind reply.
I'm still wandering through the maze, but I refuse to buy something that isn't directly connected to my audio setup. The PC setup I'm currently using is a last resort. I want an Amazon Music App connected to a TV or monitor that plays through my system. No casting. No tablet. I want connectivity. You would think this isn't asking much, but it clearly is.
I enjoy your channel.
Maybe I missed it but what is the ldac product your talking about?
That was the topping BC3 but I would suggest the ifi zen blue
Newbie here, how or with what cable do you use to connect Topping BC3 to Emotiva TA-100, love the channel!
Just put this exact setup together, I use "FosPower (0.9M / 3FT) 24K Gold Plated Toslink to Mini Toslink Digital Optical S/PDIF Audio Cable"
Worth noting, you can also use a USB charging cable in the back of the TA-100 to keep the Topping charged up. Works great.
@@robotcowhand1276 Thanks, I was wondering about that.
Dying to know what the watch is on your wrist. Looks like an old school Air King or OP34 with a silver Arabic 3 6 9 dial.
Lovely gentleman just would like to send him a British tablecloth as don't suffer from loose bits.great info
I Like your content, I also like Amazon music, great quality and cheap especially the family deal, I use a Google pixel phone with high quality UBC cable to my chord mojo DAC and a pair of old Sennisiser hd 600 headphones with USB Audio pro App to get around Android limitations on bit rate/sampling, I find Bluetooth limited even with ldac you will not get high resolution due to max bit rate of 990 kB speed and you will be lucky to get the max as most phones can't, cheers Dave.
Hi Randy. Thank you for your kind explaination on music streamers etc I guess Raspberry Pi (with a dedicated Hifi HAT) makes a more complicated and less convinient way to stream music from internet music atreaming services like spotify etc. Do you ever face any drop outs or simmilar interuptions when using LDAC and this little bluetooth device? Is it prone to interuptions when your phone/tablet is too far from the bluetooth receiver like 20 feet or so? You actually made me buy one of these little guys. Thank you brother. God bless. Sani
I think the rasberry pi with a hifi hat can be a very effective spotify end point. I'd recommend ethernet connection though as the wifi on mine is spotty at best. I think with a hardwired connection it can be a good lower cost solution. BT can and will drop out with distance of course. The BC3 is also small so the antennae will also be small. I think it performed as well as other BT devices but this would be an "in room" solution instead of streaming through the internet. I just don't think that internet streaming from dedicated devices is quite there yet. I also did a review on the Marantz NR1711 where I talk about it's streaming shortfalls. I'd like to get my hands on the Bluesound Node 2i as I've heard better things about it. Good luck and thanks so much for watching.
@@cheapaudioman thanks Randy. God bless brother
I have the node 2i and have really enjoyed it with Tidal through Rune.
Agreed Fully! I have a $20 Chromecast Audio, using optical out, and I cannot find a reason to go to anything else. I can use the native app on any platform and stream 24/96 audio. Why pay hundreds of dollars?
Thank you for sharing 🙏
I'm using a Cambridge Audio AXA25 integrated amplifier with analog only RCA inputs. Can I connect this Topping BC3 to one of those inputs via the Topping headphone out and get great sound? Or will it sound bad? It would be using the DAC inside the Topping of course.
In short, no. The inputs on your cambridge (nice choice by the way) are at a fixed "line level " and without getting to in depth, a headphone output is not only variable, but also gives out way to much volume for a line input. Doing as you suggest would do more harm than good. Topping make great DACs and all the ones i know of have "line output" sockets at the back. Check yours. It maybe 3.5mm or they may be red and white phono/rca connections. Either way, the word you need to look for is "Line". All your inputs on any hifi equipment (except phono (turntable) ) require line level signals :)
Great video thanks most Samdungs don't have aptx