I'm a little disappointed that this was a dac comparison rather than a streamer comparison. Most of us realize dacs make a substantial differance. I'd really like a comparison of all 3 streamers hooked up to a good external dac with an unaltered (no eq) digital signal.
@@everettedl The only difference between streamers when it comes to sound quality comes in the form of noise and jitter. As long as you avoid optical connections like the plague, jitter isn't terrible on most streamers (although I'd recommend I2S if you can use it). Beyond that, there's virtually no difference, and features are basically the only thing to care about, assuming you're hooking up to an external DAC and Amp.
@@b30sail The raw data stream is the same from all streamers so there's not going to be any difference. Don't let anyone tell you that the streamer itself will affect the sound because it is nonsense. Everything from the DAC to your ear can and will affect the sound.
I'm so happy with my Wiim Mini and my Schiit Modi 3+ DACS. I can control my Mini with my Alexa and Amazon Music and just do a playlist. No stress, no trying to get the last tiny bit of audio detail. Just listening to music.
I picked up the WiiM Pro Plus within the last year. I absolutely love it. Other than the rebuild of the two speakers, it's addition, is easily the biggest difference in sound. Incredible, smooth sound. Excellent interface for adjusting the sound also.
Jitter is easier to detect than even distortion to the human ear. It's pretty well-documented at this point. It'd be a pretty boring video, cause it'd be painfully easy. This isn't like cables where they're carrying exactly the same signal (thus making no difference). The signal is truly measurably different, and to simply ignore undeniable proof and say "Nah, inaudible" is just as unscientific as the people screaming to the mountaintops that their $5000 cable sounds oh-so-totally better despite there being no measurable difference between a free cable that comes with some $20 IEMs.
I don’t care what DAC may or may not be in a streamer as I’m using a Denafrips Pontus 15th for DAC duties. I recently upgraded from a Bluesound Node to a PS Audio Airlens for streaming duties and EVERY aspect of sound quality improved remarkably. Yes, as long as your system is capable of revealing the differences, streamer performance is definitely a thing.
For sure Wiim mini into your favourite DAC you can't go wrong ! I'd only upgrade to a Wiim pro to get coaxial out as the mini only has optical out if needed. These boxes with screens look great but i'm not convinced the SQ difference if any is worth the expenditure. Besides I would rather just simply upgrade my Dac and keep the Wiim.
I appreciate that Cambridge has the inputs labeled upside-down to make it easier to make the connections correctly. Also fun to see the Schiit Kara in your stack. I swapped out a Freya S for Kara and I appreciate the difference in SQ. Some might still prefer the Freya which is cool. So back to the topic. Ease of use should be at the top of the list when shopping for a streamer. A friend just bought a cheap streamer that he HATES because of the user interface. Thanks for the review!
I put volumio on a raspberry pi zero and put it in developer mode and side-loaded a jellyfin plugin. Put an audio hat on the pi and hooked it up to my receiver. Now I can just play music with my phone as my remote. Total of like $75 with a case.
You cover everything so beautifully here. People just need to get out there and listen for themselves and not get hung on DAC chip specifications. It’s all about the implementation. Ease of use is a big one for me, as a horrible interface will make for an unhappy relationship. I’m lucky enough to have an Auralic Aries G2.1 and Vega G2.1 and I’m in audio heaven.
Lookin' slick with the cut and trim Randy. Wiim minis and Alexa pucks thru the house so I'm good with streaming. The Cambridge EXN still tickles an urge tho.
I'm surprised you didn't plug in a Geshelli DAC with the WiiM before you kind of ruled it out. The DAC/streamer combo might be clearly less than the Cambridge units, but there is more than one way to skin this cat.
@@Kitsaplorax with the J3 4499 I think you’ll get equivalent soundstage and definition. You can also upgrade the op amps and the power supply. You’ll be coming in at a higher price than the Cxn but have more sonic options and connectivity options
I have a Denon receiver with a built-in streamer and also have streaming capabilities on my computers that all have separate amps and DACs. So no need for any standalone streamer. Besides, I'd rather listen to my CDs.
Here's a crazy question. If you use the WiiM with the reclocker, do you lose the EQ and room correction feature on the WiiM? Also if you were to use the USB from the WiiM to the advanced Paris A10 classic, would it be reclocked?
Ideally, when streaming lossless PCM, the streamer has no sound to it and the DAC Is the first place in the signal chain where audio fidelity can become an issue. Some streamers are introducing sample rate conversion even it is not needed to maintain a constant output sample rate. Rather, your DAC should always run on the native PCM sample rate of the stream being played.
I just bought the CA MXN10. It sounds great! but I was disappointed to find out that it doesn't have volume control when the digital outputs are being used. You must use the internal DAC and preamp to get volume control. Luckily, the analog outs sound pretty good, too. Better than my other streamers, the Allo DigiOne (on a Raspberry Pi) and the Wiim Pro. I'm also finding the StreamMagic interface to be less efficient than others (Wiim, Mo0deAudio); e.g., no way to add album to queue with one click -- must add each track individually. WTF? Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't found the secret yet.
My comment is the same as @b30sail. I wanted to see a streamer comparison and not a DAC comparison. If you play all streamers through the same external DAC, do they sound different?
Ess DACs have numerous configuration settings that affect the sound. Jason talked about this following the AKM fire. Two devices can sound very different depending on the settings used.
Been experimenting with streaming for first time... Using a little Wiim Ultra feeding a Rockna Wavedream Reference DAC... Beautiful sounding for a beginner class, entry level streamer.
I wish people that make streamers make them with no screen. It will sound better and it’s not needed if you sit more than 5’ from it. Also, looking forward to the Schiit products you mentioned. Hopefully a review of them is coming!
Cambridge have better components, power supply, clockers etc. it's a better unit. I think wiim should cut out the bass management and DSP and put the money into better clocking. I would like to someone come out with a dedicated streamer with no DAC because I am happy with my dac and I just want the money in production to go to a better sound supply and clockers. Cambridge also makes another smaller streamer for $399 and they sound better than wiim ultra, they have no screen but Idc about that. I think the small Cambridge for $399 , it was $599 is the best sounding streamer for the $ .
I saw the Geshelli DAC sitting there in your intro not being used. I bought a couple of these because of the reviewers raves (including this channel). They have issues. If you lose power at your house, these things come back on with the restored power and stay on. Unless you’re home to turn it off, they sit there and get warm. Why would they not default to “off” when they lose power? Second, the setting get screwed up sometimes. It’s so frustrating tuning the DAC on and it’s not working because you didn’t push the silly buttons right.
you can run the streamer to the amp directly, which would expose the differences in the onboard Dac capability. I guess I don't understand the "pre amp" vs "dac" part ?
Yes, but that's the issue, most streamers have the option to send out the digital signal to an external DAC, the question is, do you buy an expensive Streamer and use it as an 'all in one ' solution, or do you buy a cheap Streamer and partner it with a great DAC for the same, or even better, results ?
That bit about the phone dude you have slightly wrong I think unless I miss understood. Your phone actually has the upper hand as it has apps to speak directly to all the services a most streamers can’t do that, airplay and what not doesn’t come into it with a wired usb connection into a dac. Most streamers can be used as dacs these days, it very rare now just to have a standalone streamer those are the biggest con in hifi and people cottoned on to that pretty quickly.
Randy, you are comparing the DACs in the streamers. How about a comparison with say, the Geshelli Dayzee DAC? Run these three streamers through the Dayzee and tell us what you are hearing. I believe that would be a more honest to the headline comparison. And completely agree on the clocking, and the Android, love my Ultras, and my hotrod Volumio Rivo. . ;-)
I think the room correction/EQ of the WiiM is getting a little underplayed here. It makes such an audible difference in actual output sound that I would venture it dwarfs the relatively minor difference between DAC chips among the 3. I run my Ultra through an external dac which retains the room correction and it sounds really good. Even the phono input of the WiiM, which is nothing special, benefits from the room correction and ability to boost the signal a bit so the end product from the speakers sounds great. I'm tempted to try the re-clocker although I'm skeptical of the science behind it. Can't say enough good things about the WiiM.
A streamer is a streamer, the only differences are connections and price. All streamers are basically dacs and all dacs within the same base sound the same. The exception would be a current based chip vs a voltage based chip (ie. AKM vs Saber). The big difference in sonics lies with the op-amp. I use streaming for background noise and research, not for listening. If I want to have streaming in my system, I will get a Wiim Pro. I like that the Ultra would also allow for playing USB thumb drives, but the Ultra is completely incompatible with my system, no way to hook it up without having to use it as my system. The Wiim Pro would integrate just fine. However, streaming ability on my system is lowest on my list. I wanted to get an outboard dac to try (Douk Audio Q11), but it will not hook up to my Marantz ND8006 and I doubt it will work with my older CD player. It will hook up to a Wiim Pro fine, but I would not be able to hear a difference between the AKM and Saber using streams. I may hear a difference rolling op-amps, but that is not the initial point for getting an outboard dac. I use Alexa to stream now, but I don't do it often because it is a PITA. It is an argument trying to get her to play what you want. Using a Wiim with my tablet via WiFi solves that problem and keeps bluetooth away.
I do enjoy your channel, I tune in to your enthusiasm. Streamers they are not for me but that's OK. Having a streamer is OK too, My Naim CD 5si is pretty awesome and so is my Rega Planer 50th anniversary turntable. Audio enriches my life, I can relive my youth, I think it should be Buzzcocks tonight. B'Dum B'Dum for those who know.
Good afternoon and thank you for yet another greatly informative video. Your content always Rocks as do the "ROCKTOPUS" mugs.... love them. Hope you shake of that nagging cold soon. All the best!🎶🐙🎵
I own the WiiM Ultra. The last few days I connected my phone straight to my amp via RCA to type C cable. It sounds just as good. I question why did I buy a streamer.
For a less experienced audio enthusiast, do you think it would be more cost effective to just go with an all in one like the EVO One or Naim Mu-so 2 to start out?
Depends on how serious, (crazy?) you are about the audio hobby, half the fun is swapping out and improving your system, if you get an 'all in one' system you might get frustrated, with an element of it, and you're stuck with it, as opposed to being able to swap out your DAC, pre amp, power amp, cables etc. in a separates system.
I think you will find that Chromecast streams direct from the internet once you have chosen the content on your device and ‘cast’ that content. I.e. once Chromecast knows what you want to hear it goes direct from your router to the Chromecast device NOT through your phone. So it is very different from Bluetooth and has a higher sound quality.
I get Amazon music thru my PC's sound card with a digital coaxial output to the the SMSL DAC into my modest system and I find the sound very satisfying.
I have my computer hooked up to my TV through an old Marantz amp, through a cheap R2R DAC, through Energy speakers with built in subwoofers, and use Amazon and UA-cam for most for my music needs. I also have a dedicated audio set up with an Electrocompaniet amp hooked up to Usher Speakers through a Violectric DAC, with a Cyrus transport, but hardly ever use it, lol. I can see a time where UA-cam's sound will raise to a satisfactory level and, with the right components, will be all that I need for music.
First of all - I don’t consider myself an audiofile, I’m just a guy who likes to listen music. I use my audio separates mostly for records, cd-s and cassettes but as I drive my speakers with an AVR I also have a chrome cast thing plugged into the avr for some casual background music from Spotify when I have mates over. At the beginning of the video it was mentioned that a streamer would be a better solution? Why? The chromecast thing grabs the music from the internet and uses the dac from my AVR. The expensive streamer would download the exact same “ones and zeroes” and send them to the same dac in my AVR. At the end they would sound exactly the same! Or am I missing something?
It's the sending and processing of those 'ones and zeroes' that makes all the difference, and you can spend an eternity and a whole lot of money pursuing that difference, what are you waiting for?
Ok, never mind, this video answered a lot of questions for me. I see that I’m not the target audience for these with my current system. And that’s good to know! Calm, FOMO, calm…
This might be a stupid question. But I'm new to A/V, streaming devices, etc. If I take say, an old iPad Mini (at least a few generations old now) and just go straight 3.5mm to RCA into a set of cheap Edifier R1280T's... am I losing any audio quality vs. say getting a WiiM Pro Plus or WiiM Ultra? I'd be using Spotify and/or Tidal as the music source.
I currently stream with a WIIM Pro to my Anthem AVR connected by Toslink. This setup uses the Dac in the Anthem. In theory, is this the better setup for my system or would a higher end streamer give better results?
COM! I don’t know what you do for a living, but (I plead), take this show on the road. Open a brick and mortar store. It’s impossible to try and get a listen first hand, or having them all in one spot. I might hear from you or others, that if I buy them on line and dislike them, I can just send them back. I know that sometimes when I do that, I just give up and live with it, especially if it’s a total pain to do that.
Disbelivers.... I tested both the Wiim Pro and a Denafrips ARCE. Definitely sound different. My wife prefers the Wiim. I thought the ARCE had better instrument separation. Downside is stuck with Roon. Like them both though.
Do you think these Cambridge streamers are worth the price if you're planning on using them just as a DAC for your PC? I've been contemplating upgrading my Fiio DAC.
BluOS streamer option, which was left out I personally I think is the best platform with WiiM / 4Stream being second because of the streaming sources. Now, just need better performing hardware devices like Cambridge.
I have a WiiM Ultra and the Cambridge CXN100. I am running the WiiM into an SMSL SU-1 via optical and the Cambridge just blows the doors off the WiiM. Only way i could get the WiiM to sound as close to the CXN was to run in through a DAC Magic 200. May as well just spend the money on a quality streamer if you have to run the WiiM through a high end dac to get it to sound good. I guess i'm spoiled though. If it's your first streamer, the WiiM is a decent option for most. You can also get a Cambridge MXN for around the same price. Doesn't have a shnazzy screen though.
How do they compare if you run the Cambridge through the SU-1? I assume they would be the same and the difference is in the DAC not the streamer. Maybe not though, the WIIm does a lot of processing so that might be affecting things.
I won't consider a streamer without a Bluetooth functionality because if my wifi or network goes out, I'm screwed. My phone network almost always stays online and i need that backup option in case the internet is out.
@@jarekharmening8993 Pay extra? Most phones for the last 5 years or so, have that feature in the wi fi settings, why would you have to pay extra for it?
I use a Cambridge AXN10 (cost me 350). It is way smoother than the WIIM. It is the Cambridge signature. I changed the power cable with a furutech clone and bass improved a lot. I don't care about dac chips because i use an external dac. Nor do i care for screens. To far away to read.
I think an old Ipad with a headphone jack that you likely have laying around will be a better option than one of these which in a few years be completely out of date (especially for price conscious audiophiles). An ipad is 1) an easier to use (much bigger screen, touch controls), 2) much cheaper as in free or less than a few hundred if you buy used, 3) great sounding-- the dac/output of prior ipads is supposed to be excellent. Just get a stand for ipad and put it on top of your setup.
ipad will be unsupported much earlier than that. not that it will cease to function but bye bye updates. I had to replace mine once it stopped supporting spotify and netflix.. it still works perfectly otherwise, it’s the software that kills it eventually.
bruh, though that combo would be fire, to say that the screen is BS marketing is bullsh*t. Lotta of us out here want a screen so we aint always looking at a damn cellphone or tablet for our music info...that screen serves as huge purpose for alot of hifi heads....dont be out here speaking for us since you dont use one.
@@BIGGIEsmalls13 no it won't because the WIIM suffers from jitter and poor clocking. I asked them to improve that on the ultra but they went for useless to me features instead of improving the core functionality.
@@D1N02 Chord DACS have their own chip that reclocks the signal and does not use the clock data from an inputting device, so the Wiims shortcomings shouldn't make any difference.
I wonder.. when you say this speaker/amp etc. makes some thing sound more forward etc., doesn't that just mean the product either has a bump or dip in the frequency response in that section. And doesn't that mean you can EQ those things to your liking basically with any speaker/Amp? For example, I bought a set of cheap computer speakers with a little sub and it sounded really bad. So instead of bying a set of better speakers, I added a bunch of treble and now they sound really good. My point is, why listen to 100 speakers, just pick a set of good/big enough that they physically can produce wanted frequencies and just EQ it to your taste. Yes.. I know, I'm will never qualify as "audio-phile" when I have this level of heretical thoughts. Or it might be just that I have not never heard set of really good speakers.
It's interesting what they are doing in the Guitar amp world with modelling amps, that can emulate the sound of 'classic' amps, when they first came out a decade or so ago, they were laughed at because they sounded terrible. Fast forward to today and they are taking over the market because they sound so good, you can dial up a 60's Fender or a Marshal sound etc., and no one tell the difference anymore. As an audio enthusiast I wonder if the same thing could happen in the audio field, say, like recording a $50,000 stereo system in a perfect room, then being able to emulate that exact sound with a small cheap device. It's like EQing to the max.
So you're willing to pay a hefty premium for the Cambridge product over Eversolo because the interface is better. But you also say 'get used to it' when considering the Emotiva interface on the basX products, knowing how crappy that interface is. Hmmn.
How can the streamer independent of its DAC, which you can offload to an external DAC, possibly sound ANY different than any other streamer? As far as "jitter" is concerned, if jitter was such a problem, would that not be a GLARING problem that would cause people NOT to buy these streamers, irregardless of price? I can remember the mention of jitter in the paper stereo magazine ads for CD players, WAY back when CD players cost more than a car, so tell me, after all these years, audio equipment manufacturers STILL haven't got their acts together, unable to make a streamer that doesn't require a bank loan to deal with jitter? FROM CHINA no less? CAUGH (cash grab)..........
You sound a little 'man flu' infected. I hope you are in fine fettle for your upcoming trip. My method to make sure that I get a good stream - is it an Auralic? Sorted.
Can I recommend a product to review? I was looking at the Nvidia Shield as a streaming device for audio and video. It apparently has USB audio out, so you can stream directly into a good DAC and HDMI straight to the TV. Seems like the perfect device for us guys with a TV attached to the hifi system.
I wouldn’t. I’ve got the shield, fire tv, Apple TV, and the Apple TV sounds significantly better than the others I believe due to how the OS handles the audio. Software support for the shield is now basically gone, there is a 50ms audio lag on all Android based systems (which is a giveaway that the audio doesn’t get communicated directly with the hardware)
@ I don’t believe Apple TV is bit perfect anymore - it was for a while (at least where the sample rate was variable…) but it still sounds very good even resampled. I use the eARC receiver on my arcam dac/amp so you will need that. I also recall having problems with the USB on my shield pro where some Netflix content would crash unless the movie had “stereo 2.0 English” as one of the audio options… and prime video would just crash because it wouldn’t give you that option, so you were limited to Netflix. Bear in mind this was 5 years ago so Netflix may not give you that 2.0 track anymore… The problem with nvidia shield is its lack of mainstream support and therefore lack of developer support, as well as the fact it runs Android IMO means it is fundamentally designed to work on many many types of hardware hence the lack of directness in the audio drivers. There was an exception with this Android app called usb audio player pro, which had custom usb drivers, but you’d have to port it to your Android tv - which I have managed to do… but it ends up sounding worse than your Android phone possibly due to the fact it’s not running audiophile grade hardware… Cheapest option I’m afraid is Apple TV (with hdmi 2.1) to at least a bluesound n130 eARC, but then I would not convert eARC to spdif… so maybe get the Cambridge audio receiver if you want a serious system. Personally I really love the sound of the dac in the n130 to be honest!
If I am spending $4K on a system, I'll be using an external DAC. So why don't reviewers compare streamer performance WITHOUT their included DAC? Why should I spend money on a more expensive streamer (aside from features) simply because it has a better DAC? If I have my own DAC, that would be a big waste of money, unless again, it has extra features that I want.
Too many variables, i guess. There's so many DAC's out there, the Reviewer can't cover them all, so if they recommend a streamer with a certain external DAC, it may not work so well with another brand of DAC, and they'll get trashed for it. Besides that, Streamers are marketed to non audiophiles that just want one box convenience.
@@SaintKimbo I get that, but I would just like to see a comparison using even a few external DACs. These types of comparisons are done with other components. I can see where different streamers may have jitter due to clock timing, but I don't see where else a difference could be.
@ i understand, but that's the itch that audio enthusiasts can never scratch, isn't it? How much actual, objective information can you garner from these comparisons? Joe Blow reviewer says that X streamer sounds better with X DAC, again there's so many variables, including, unfortunately brand 'loyalty'.
The screen is useless I’m 10ft away from it , too small I’ve a wimp going to a chord dac using my phone or Mac book to control it far better, I don’t see the sense in these small screen , that’s only my opinion
I have a music streamer which is half the price of those mentioned cheap streamers, mine has a bigger screen, can install any streaming service, Certified Dolby audio, easy to use touch screen and plugs directly to my Yamaha AMP DAC. It's my lenovo tablet. I've tried dedicated streamers and they just don't do anything better and a lot of things worse. Sound quality is perfect.
I would bet no one could tell the difference between my second hand less than £250 set up and one of these £20,000+ set ups with their eyes closed. Amp 90 watts per channel THD 0.06%, bookshelf speakers 75 watts, and a small sub all run off a desktop computer. I don't pay to listen to music and I can find any version I want. People who spend huge amounts are just stupid.
Im gonna say false...because it all depends on what 250 (dollar/pound) setup you got and if you actually heard more expensive expensive systems before. Lotta people come on here talking this and that trying to build their cheap systems up in order to convince themselves there isnt nothing better outside their budget (so they dont FOMO out). Not to say your system doesnt hold up, but trust me, I have had tons of cheap setups and some scale up well--and there are many that flat out suck. So until you tell us your system, I am not believing it.
@@O.G.LIL-MAN The computer is quite new and reasonably good, the optical cable runs into a Yamaha DSP AX620 and then goes into wharfedale 75 watt bookshelf speakers x4 and a Yamaha NSSW050 Powered Subwoofer. Only the sub was new, the amp I picked up for £30 and the wharfedale's I've had for years, also second hand. I suppose you could argue technically on paper a high end system is better because of this and that but could your ears really hear the difference with your eyes close? I know some friends of mine who swear vinyl is better but the facts say otherwise and the same has to be said for human hearing.
Of course yours is best asr said so , you really need validation don't you , relax and don't be bitter and jealous about people that have more money than u , you won the Internet today
I put together a sweet vintage Hi-Fi rig with brand new-like Sansui S-917 floor monitors and a 1977 Kenwood KA-7100 Integrated Amplifier + 1982 Technics M45 tape deck + Fluance turntable + a Marantz CD player. I DONT STREAM A DANG THANG! Seriously, I want total control over my media/music & streaming requires an interwebs connection & subscriptions = $$ ....no thanks. Love muh cassette tapes, love muh vinyl, even like muh CDs. Total control.
I agree with your point that the subscription and the need to have an internet connection to enjoy music is out of the question. I can’t afford to buy, let alone service vintage hi fi gear so that’s out of the question. I would buy a Marantz CD player definitely but again referring to the cost I would have to weigh the pro/cons to using my BluRay player with an external DAC. I grew up with LP’s. I like the idea of having the big covers and so on but don’t have the space to start a collection nor do I have a turntable, I do have a stereo Marantz receiver, the last one in a sea of home theatre receivers in the small Australian town I live in, on special that I’ve had for 14 years, took me awhile to be able to get decent speakers but I currently live with my Father and the lounge that only has room for a single chair is right next to my bedroom and it’s also very hot in summer and my fans are so noisy I can’t push the volume of the speakers enough without annoying my Dad so I actually listen to music in 4 ways, one is through free digital radio through the Blueray player, the sound going out of the headphone jack of the Marantz SR4023 Stereo Receiver into a Yamaha 6 Channel USB mixer which then feeds a pair of ik Multimedia iLoud micro monitors, so tiny music production studio monitors which are right next to my head on a table like you have for a hospital bed, I have an Apple iPad on a stand joined to that table that also connects to that mixer so I can put UA-cam music through that system, the mixer has it’s own Digital to Analog Converter so bypasses the iPad, but if I want to really get into something I use a Digital Audio Player connected to again a set of professional studio monitors which are designed for music production but also audio forensics which means unfortunately if it’s a crap recording it reveals it all, and in my car, streaming music is always lower quality doesn’t matter how much money people spend and the little micro monitoring speaker are capable of Bluetooth connectivity as is the Digital Audio Player but I don’t use it, I buy CD’s and rip them when I can, but I primarily listen to music to learn from it and a lot music I listen to I can’t buy in Australia, as well as that I can’t think of a single album where I like everything on it so I buy music from the Apple Store and put it on six devices an iPhone, iPad, Laptop, Digital Audio player, USB stick into the Blueray Player and into the car, don’t stream from my phone into the car it sounds like 💩 compared to the USB stick and when I listen to music, I listen to about an average of 1 and a half minutes of it, then move on to another one because I can recreate it in my head no problem but it helps occasionally to refresh the memory if I have music running in the background then it’s through the tv radio and I often pick up an electric guitar without the electricity and play over the top of it, don’t care for streaming but since I like Indian music, I’ve heard enough classic rock and country and blues and whatever else to last a life time so I listen to other stuff to get more ideas, UA-cam is a great resource for that and you do realise you are streaming something as you watch UA-cam no? But I get it, no way would I spent 500 AUS bucks on a “HiFi” streamer let alone thousands, Spotify and the rest can take a hike, subscription can kiss my rear end if you are American, if Australian subscription can get stuffed, if from UK it might be “not my cup of tea” but yeah got to have some physical media for when the internet goes down but if the lights go out and the power fails I’m covered also I can play it myself in my head or with my hands or sing it or whatever.
@ロクアンドロールしかないでも好きだ I understand completely, bro. You do what ya gotta do to get what ya want and/or need. I put my vintage rig together years ago well before everyone started to get into the "hobby" driving prices up to ridiculous amounts. My Sansui S-917 floor speakers in still perfect condition I bought at a pawn shop for $35 for the pair. They're easily $700-$1000 today but, I wouldn't be able to replace them so, I'm keeping them. And yes, it's not lost on me that I'm streaming YooToob but, not music. I love cranking my cassette tapes so the neighbors can enjoy my Soundgarden with me😂. Nah, I'm not a rude-boy in that regard but, I will crank the volume during the day when everyone else is working. But, I get it, mate. You do what you have to do. For me personally, I'm an old Tennessee hillbilly boy and just love the old ways especially my 1971 Chevelle Malibu 350 V8 convertible I bought back in 1985. Still own her, still drive her. I leave the phone at home and hit the road. Best medicine there is.
I'm a little disappointed that this was a dac comparison rather than a streamer comparison. Most of us realize dacs make a substantial differance.
I'd really like a comparison of all 3 streamers hooked up to a good external dac with an unaltered (no eq) digital signal.
This was my thought too and why I watched the video. I'm really curious if the streaming only parts of these three make any differences.
I get it but no one would buy these and use them in that way, so sort of a moot point don’t you think?
@@BMWBuilds exactly, part of what you’re paying for is the DAC, why wouldn’t that be part of the comparison
@@everettedl The only difference between streamers when it comes to sound quality comes in the form of noise and jitter. As long as you avoid optical connections like the plague, jitter isn't terrible on most streamers (although I'd recommend I2S if you can use it). Beyond that, there's virtually no difference, and features are basically the only thing to care about, assuming you're hooking up to an external DAC and Amp.
@@b30sail
The raw data stream is the same from all streamers so there's not going to be any difference.
Don't let anyone tell you that the streamer itself will affect the sound because it is nonsense.
Everything from the DAC to your ear can and will affect the sound.
I'm so happy with my Wiim Mini and my Schiit Modi 3+ DACS. I can control my Mini with my Alexa and Amazon Music and just do a playlist. No stress, no trying to get the last tiny bit of audio detail. Just listening to music.
I picked up the WiiM Pro Plus within the last year.
I absolutely love it.
Other than the rebuild of the two speakers, it's addition, is easily the biggest difference in sound.
Incredible, smooth sound.
Excellent interface for adjusting the sound also.
@@davidjudd951 And for an old guy like me, an easy to use interface.
Would love to see a blind test comparing the sound with and without the “re-clocker”. That would be a really cool video to see.
LOL, yes. Just as much fun as the old 'edge of CD painted green vs. normal CD' test.
With the Ultra, I’d nail it every time. So easy to hear. What ever the naysayers say, Randy was/is 100% right this time…
@@pd5338
Let's do a true ABX test on that.
Jitter is easier to detect than even distortion to the human ear. It's pretty well-documented at this point. It'd be a pretty boring video, cause it'd be painfully easy. This isn't like cables where they're carrying exactly the same signal (thus making no difference). The signal is truly measurably different, and to simply ignore undeniable proof and say "Nah, inaudible" is just as unscientific as the people screaming to the mountaintops that their $5000 cable sounds oh-so-totally better despite there being no measurable difference between a free cable that comes with some $20 IEMs.
I don’t care what DAC may or may not be in a streamer as I’m using a Denafrips Pontus 15th for DAC duties. I recently upgraded from a Bluesound Node to a PS Audio Airlens for streaming duties and EVERY aspect of sound quality improved remarkably. Yes, as long as your system is capable of revealing the differences, streamer performance is definitely a thing.
An Eversolo and a Bluesound are a must in such comparisons.
I like both of them, but I sold them once I bought a WiiM ultra. The others just aren’t worth the extra $$$ for me.
These units have been reviewed to death.
@@Ruger62 They all were, I agree, but when comparing they provide price and quality level
A friend of mine has one.
I haven't heard it, but he swears by it.
I gotta say - the Wiim Mini with a Cambridge DacMagic+ has been pretty surprising.
For sure Wiim mini into your favourite DAC you can't go wrong ! I'd only upgrade to a Wiim pro to get coaxial out as the mini only has optical out if needed. These boxes with screens look great but i'm not convinced the SQ difference if any is worth the expenditure. Besides I would rather just simply upgrade my Dac and keep the Wiim.
I appreciate that Cambridge has the inputs labeled upside-down to make it easier to make the connections correctly. Also fun to see the Schiit Kara in your stack. I swapped out a Freya S for Kara and I appreciate the difference in SQ. Some might still prefer the Freya which is cool.
So back to the topic. Ease of use should be at the top of the list when shopping for a streamer. A friend just bought a cheap streamer that he HATES because of the user interface.
Thanks for the review!
I really like your comments on these 3 streamers. You answered my questions about how they really sound and what the differences are. Thanks!
Great timing. I've been looking into these options just this week. Even these exact models!
I put volumio on a raspberry pi zero and put it in developer mode and side-loaded a jellyfin plugin. Put an audio hat on the pi and hooked it up to my receiver. Now I can just play music with my phone as my remote. Total of like $75 with a case.
You cover everything so beautifully here. People just need to get out there and listen for themselves and not get hung on DAC chip specifications. It’s all about the implementation. Ease of use is a big one for me, as a horrible interface will make for an unhappy relationship. I’m lucky enough to have an Auralic Aries G2.1 and Vega G2.1 and I’m in audio heaven.
The differences heard are more likely caused by the output stage rather from the DACs. Clocking errors results in noise above the audio bandwith.
Lookin' slick with the cut and trim Randy. Wiim minis and Alexa pucks thru the house so I'm good with streaming. The Cambridge EXN still tickles an urge tho.
I'm surprised you didn't plug in a Geshelli DAC with the WiiM before you kind of ruled it out. The DAC/streamer combo might be clearly less than the Cambridge units, but there is more than one way to skin this cat.
I was going to ask Randy this very question on Patrreon. I would like to get his take on the cost/benefits comparison.
@@Kitsaplorax with the J3
4499 I think you’ll get equivalent soundstage and definition. You can also upgrade the op amps and the power supply. You’ll be coming in at a higher price than the Cxn but have more sonic options and connectivity options
Thanks
@@cheapaudiomanThanks. I have the WiiM Pro (?) for 150 and bad computer speakers. Real speakers and an amp are next. Then maybe a better DAC?
You don't have a dac yet 😉🤔 so yes!
You do not sound good, dude. Everything ok?
He sounds normal to me.
Sounds rough to me@@AudioNaut93
@ 👍
A little congestion.
Quit projecting. It’s called winter
Nice, thanks Randy, go get rid of that cold? or whatever u got 🤧🤒
Bluesound Node Icon is coming with a screen at $1000. Hope you get it!😊
I’m hoping as well. Hopefully he never burned his bridges with Bluesound 🤞🏼
I hope you can get your mitts on the new Fii0 S15 streamer. I'm curious how it stacks up against the CXN for the same money.
I have a Denon receiver with a built-in streamer and also have streaming capabilities on my computers that all have separate amps and DACs. So no need for any standalone streamer. Besides, I'd rather listen to my CDs.
I'd love to see a comparison of the Cambridge CXN100 and EXN100 to their lower end MXN100 or AXN100 (same thing, different chassis)
Here's a crazy question. If you use the WiiM with the reclocker, do you lose the EQ and room correction feature on the WiiM? Also if you were to use the USB from the WiiM to the advanced Paris A10 classic, would it be reclocked?
EQ and room correction still work when using the SMSL PO100 Pro
Any chance Cambridge adds Amazon had to their service? It’s weird they don’t have it, when all their competition does.
Ideally, when streaming lossless PCM, the streamer has no sound to it and the DAC Is the first place in the signal chain where audio fidelity can become an issue. Some streamers are introducing sample rate conversion even it is not needed to maintain a constant output sample rate. Rather, your DAC should always run on the native PCM sample rate of the stream being played.
I just bought the CA MXN10. It sounds great! but I was disappointed to find out that it doesn't have volume control when the digital outputs are being used. You must use the internal DAC and preamp to get volume control. Luckily, the analog outs sound pretty good, too. Better than my other streamers, the Allo DigiOne (on a Raspberry Pi) and the Wiim Pro. I'm also finding the StreamMagic interface to be less efficient than others (Wiim, Mo0deAudio); e.g., no way to add album to queue with one click -- must add each track individually. WTF? Maybe I'm missing something, but I haven't found the secret yet.
My comment is the same as @b30sail. I wanted to see a streamer comparison and not a DAC comparison. If you play all streamers through the same external DAC, do they sound different?
Depends who's paying you.
Ess DACs have numerous configuration settings that affect the sound. Jason talked about this following the AKM fire. Two devices can sound very different depending on the settings used.
Been experimenting with streaming for first time... Using a little Wiim Ultra feeding a Rockna Wavedream Reference DAC... Beautiful sounding for a beginner class, entry level streamer.
I wish people that make streamers make them with no screen. It will sound better and it’s not needed if you sit more than 5’ from it. Also, looking forward to the Schiit products you mentioned. Hopefully a review of them is coming!
Check out the Cambridge MXN10 - no screen and currently priced at $399 (marked down from $499). Getting good reviews...
You sound like the last time I had a whiskey night…
You had me at Tambourine sizzle! EXN for the win.
Source is crucial. I realized that when I switched from Wiim mini to Wiim pro plus to finally a Bluesound node Nano with ipower 2. Bye bye harshness…
Cambridge have better components, power supply, clockers etc. it's a better unit. I think wiim should cut out the bass management and DSP and put the money into better clocking. I would like to someone come out with a dedicated streamer with no DAC because I am happy with my dac and I just want the money in production to go to a better sound supply and clockers. Cambridge also makes another smaller streamer for $399 and they sound better than wiim ultra, they have no screen but Idc about that. I think the small Cambridge for $399 , it was $599 is the best sounding streamer for the $ .
what if you pay more than double the EXN 100 for the Naim Uniti Atom? is that worth it? lol
I saw the Geshelli DAC sitting there in your intro not being used. I bought a couple of these because of the reviewers raves (including this channel). They have issues. If you lose power at your house, these things come back on with the restored power and stay on. Unless you’re home to turn it off, they sit there and get warm. Why would they not default to “off” when they lose power? Second, the setting get screwed up sometimes. It’s so frustrating tuning the DAC on and it’s not working because you didn’t push the silly buttons right.
you can run the streamer to the amp directly, which would expose the differences in the onboard Dac capability. I guess I don't understand the "pre amp" vs "dac" part ?
Yes, but that's the issue, most streamers have the option to send out the digital signal to an external DAC, the question is, do you buy an expensive Streamer and use it as an 'all in one ' solution, or do you buy a cheap Streamer and partner it with a great DAC for the same, or even better, results ?
That bit about the phone dude you have slightly wrong I think unless I miss understood. Your phone actually has the upper hand as it has apps to speak directly to all the services a most streamers can’t do that, airplay and what not doesn’t come into it with a wired usb connection into a dac.
Most streamers can be used as dacs these days, it very rare now just to have a standalone streamer those are the biggest con in hifi and people cottoned on to that pretty quickly.
Randy, you are comparing the DACs in the streamers. How about a comparison with say, the Geshelli Dayzee DAC? Run these three streamers through the Dayzee and tell us what you are hearing. I believe that would be a more honest to the headline comparison. And completely agree on the clocking, and the Android, love my Ultras, and my hotrod Volumio Rivo. . ;-)
Think would be amazing of we could get the opinion on Dedicated streamer vs Heos or other Streaming services on Amps via the phone. ?
I have a computer, DAC, and amp. I don’t see any benefit to a streamer, in cases like mine. Am I wrong?
Depends. If you realize you don’t want the computer on all the time, you might have a use case.
If only for electricity’s sake..
No.
You are not wrong. I like having a streamer because when I am doing dedicated music listening I can have my PC off, and eliminate the fan noise.
Just don't go to a good stereo shop and listen to an expensive Streaming set up, and you'll be OK.
I think the room correction/EQ of the WiiM is getting a little underplayed here. It makes such an audible difference in actual output sound that I would venture it dwarfs the relatively minor difference between DAC chips among the 3. I run my Ultra through an external dac which retains the room correction and it sounds really good. Even the phono input of the WiiM, which is nothing special, benefits from the room correction and ability to boost the signal a bit so the end product from the speakers sounds great. I'm tempted to try the re-clocker although I'm skeptical of the science behind it. Can't say enough good things about the WiiM.
A streamer is a streamer, the only differences are connections and price. All streamers are basically dacs and all dacs within the same base sound the same. The exception would be a current based chip vs a voltage based chip (ie. AKM vs Saber). The big difference in sonics lies with the op-amp.
I use streaming for background noise and research, not for listening. If I want to have streaming in my system, I will get a Wiim Pro. I like that the Ultra would also allow for playing USB thumb drives, but the Ultra is completely incompatible with my system, no way to hook it up without having to use it as my system. The Wiim Pro would integrate just fine.
However, streaming ability on my system is lowest on my list.
I wanted to get an outboard dac to try (Douk Audio Q11), but it will not hook up to my Marantz ND8006 and I doubt it will work with my older CD player. It will hook up to a Wiim Pro fine, but I would not be able to hear a difference between the AKM and Saber using streams. I may hear a difference rolling op-amps, but that is not the initial point for getting an outboard dac.
I use Alexa to stream now, but I don't do it often because it is a PITA. It is an argument trying to get her to play what you want. Using a Wiim with my tablet via WiFi solves that problem and keeps bluetooth away.
Great Review Randy!!!
No Amazon Music... I'm Out.
I do enjoy your channel, I tune in to your enthusiasm. Streamers they are not for me but that's OK. Having a streamer is OK too, My Naim CD 5si is pretty awesome and so is my Rega Planer 50th anniversary turntable. Audio enriches my life, I can relive my youth, I think it should be Buzzcocks tonight. B'Dum B'Dum for those who know.
I've been wondering this for some time. Probably sticking with my Wiim Mini, regardless, but Randy's answer will be interesting to know nonetheless
Damn it! Now I have to return my CXN. 🙄
No keep the CXN thats a great sounding music streamer
Good afternoon and thank you for yet another greatly informative video. Your content always Rocks as do the "ROCKTOPUS" mugs.... love them. Hope you shake of that nagging cold soon. All the best!🎶🐙🎵
Hey! Curious why you didn't use the blue sound node in your streamer comparison!
I have WiiM Ultra very nice streamer i loved
I own the WiiM Ultra. The last few days I connected my phone straight to my amp via RCA to type C cable. It sounds just as good. I question why did I buy a streamer.
I would really like for you to try the PO100. I know you tried the PO100 Pro already.
For a less experienced audio enthusiast, do you think it would be more cost effective to just go with an all in one like the EVO One or Naim Mu-so 2 to start out?
Depends on how serious, (crazy?) you are about the audio hobby, half the fun is swapping out and improving your system, if you get an 'all in one' system you might get frustrated, with an element of it, and you're stuck with it, as opposed to being able to swap out your DAC, pre amp, power amp, cables etc. in a separates system.
I think you will find that Chromecast streams direct from the internet once you have chosen the content on your device and ‘cast’ that content. I.e. once Chromecast knows what you want to hear it goes direct from your router to the Chromecast device NOT through your phone. So it is very different from Bluetooth and has a higher sound quality.
Chromcast does not stream from the phone to the device. The device always does the streaming. Why does no one understand this.
The only exception is when you are casting the screen of the device.
Also, many people think it's only for Android. Most iOS music and radio apps support Chromecast.
I get Amazon music thru my PC's sound card with a digital coaxial output to the the SMSL DAC into my modest system and I find the sound very satisfying.
I have my computer hooked up to my TV through an old Marantz amp, through a cheap R2R DAC, through Energy speakers with built in subwoofers, and use Amazon and UA-cam for most for my music needs.
I also have a dedicated audio set up with an Electrocompaniet amp hooked up to Usher Speakers through a Violectric DAC, with a Cyrus transport, but hardly ever use it, lol.
I can see a time where UA-cam's sound will raise to a satisfactory level and, with the right components, will be all that I need for music.
@@SaintKimbo I also have a vintage Marantz that i use as a preamp into an Emotive amp. It's a Frankenstein setup but it's good enough for me
First of all - I don’t consider myself an audiofile, I’m just a guy who likes to listen music. I use my audio separates mostly for records, cd-s and cassettes but as I drive my speakers with an AVR I also have a chrome cast thing plugged into the avr for some casual background music from Spotify when I have mates over. At the beginning of the video it was mentioned that a streamer would be a better solution? Why? The chromecast thing grabs the music from the internet and uses the dac from my AVR. The expensive streamer would download the exact same “ones and zeroes” and send them to the same dac in my AVR. At the end they would sound exactly the same! Or am I missing something?
It's the sending and processing of those 'ones and zeroes' that makes all the difference, and you can spend an eternity and a whole lot of money pursuing that difference, what are you waiting for?
Would have love to have seen an $80 wiim in comparison. My system is all separated so I often wonder if I’m missing anything.
Ok, never mind, this video answered a lot of questions for me. I see that I’m not the target audience for these with my current system. And that’s good to know! Calm, FOMO, calm…
It would be fine if you don't care about Chromecast and you're connecting it to an external DAC.
This might be a stupid question. But I'm new to A/V, streaming devices, etc. If I take say, an old iPad Mini (at least a few generations old now) and just go straight 3.5mm to RCA into a set of cheap Edifier R1280T's... am I losing any audio quality vs. say getting a WiiM Pro Plus or WiiM Ultra? I'd be using Spotify and/or Tidal as the music source.
I currently stream with a WIIM Pro to my Anthem AVR connected by Toslink. This setup uses the Dac in the Anthem. In theory, is this the better setup for my system or would a higher end streamer give better results?
Yes, a streamer like the Grimm MU1 would give you better results, and it's only $10,500.
@ 😂
COM! I don’t know what you do for a living, but (I plead), take this show on the road. Open a brick and mortar store. It’s impossible to try and get a listen first hand, or having them all in one spot. I might hear from you or others, that if I buy them on line and dislike them, I can just send them back. I know that sometimes when I do that, I just give up and live with it, especially if it’s a total pain to do that.
Haircut lookin good🤙
I'm satisfied with WiiM pro and Ares II DAC. 👍
Disbelivers.... I tested both the Wiim Pro and a Denafrips ARCE. Definitely sound different. My wife prefers the Wiim. I thought the ARCE had better instrument separation. Downside is stuck with Roon. Like them both though.
Do you think these Cambridge streamers are worth the price if you're planning on using them just as a DAC for your PC? I've been contemplating upgrading my Fiio DAC.
Chromecast doesn't stream through your phone like airplay
BluOS streamer option, which was left out I personally I think is the best platform with WiiM / 4Stream being second because of the streaming sources. Now, just need better performing hardware devices like Cambridge.
I have a WiiM Ultra and the Cambridge CXN100. I am running the WiiM into an SMSL SU-1 via optical and the Cambridge just blows the doors off the WiiM. Only way i could get the WiiM to sound as close to the CXN was to run in through a DAC Magic 200. May as well just spend the money on a quality streamer if you have to run the WiiM through a high end dac to get it to sound good.
I guess i'm spoiled though. If it's your first streamer, the WiiM is a decent option for most. You can also get a Cambridge MXN for around the same price. Doesn't have a shnazzy screen though.
I think the WiiM is a great option for people starting out or for people like myself who aren't going to spend over a $1,000 on a streamer lol
How do they compare if you run the Cambridge through the SU-1? I assume they would be the same and the difference is in the DAC not the streamer. Maybe not though, the WIIm does a lot of processing so that might be affecting things.
From my computer, I use a dongle that upgrades my Bluetooth codex from SBC to aptX HD. I’ve done many tweaks to upgrade the sound.
Getting rid of bluetooth would be an upgrade.
I just need something that allows me to feed high quality audio to my receiver, Wiim Mini does that
does any of these streamers support Subsonic based music servers?
Could have thrown in a 99 dollar WiiM too. Would have won hands down
I won't consider a streamer without a Bluetooth functionality because if my wifi or network goes out, I'm screwed. My phone network almost always stays online and i need that backup option in case the internet is out.
Your phone has a wifi hotspot capability, doesn’t it? BT is ok to have but not determining factor in such case.
@stehlik yes if I paid extra for the Hotspot option on my phone
@@jarekharmening8993
Pay extra?
Most phones for the last 5 years or so, have that feature in the wi fi settings, why would you have to pay extra for it?
@SaintKimbo i don't know what country you're in, but here in the US hotspots for phones cost extra on phone plans. They're not included.
“We could have charged more, but we didn’t want to “. Lmao. Cambridge must have transferred you to the sales department…
All i want is a usb input so i can play flac files from. Is there anything like that on the market? Please help me. 🙏
There's heaps of devices that have USB input, integrated amps, streamers, digital music players, etc, easy to find just google it.
What about if you have a WIIM mini with a J2 4499 Sparcos DAC
Just get an optical cable and you can use the J2. with the Wiim mini.
@SaintKimbo yes absolutely.. i was asking if that setup would be as good as the Cambridge.. probably close
Good video. Thanks.
I use a Cambridge AXN10 (cost me 350). It is way smoother than the WIIM. It is the Cambridge signature. I changed the power cable with a furutech clone and bass improved a lot. I don't care about dac chips because i use an external dac. Nor do i care for screens. To far away to read.
If you used the same power cable for your printer would you get better colours?
@jackn4853 I don't own a printer. I hate them.
@@jackn4853
Yes, the colors have much more 'air', 'separation' and 'depth'.
What if Im not using the DAC? Im just using the streamer, does this effect the sound quality?
Yes, because you would get no sound without the DAC, big difference in sound quality there.
How about my Alexa dot second gen hooked up to my stereo receiver by mic input for $35 cheap audio dude?
I think an old Ipad with a headphone jack that you likely have laying around will be a better option than one of these which in a few years be completely out of date (especially for price conscious audiophiles). An ipad is 1) an easier to use (much bigger screen, touch controls), 2) much cheaper as in free or less than a few hundred if you buy used, 3) great sounding-- the dac/output of prior ipads is supposed to be excellent. Just get a stand for ipad and put it on top of your setup.
ipad will be unsupported much earlier than that. not that it will cease to function but bye bye updates. I had to replace mine once it stopped supporting spotify and netflix.. it still works perfectly otherwise, it’s the software that kills it eventually.
So basically when you were directing everyone to buy a wiim mini and j2 akm you were talking bollox?.
OMG! YES - 90125 I have that one in vinyl.
Actually the Ratchet 1000 and the Reba 1450A are the best streamers!
But a wiim mini/pro and outboard chord mojo2 will sound better than all three. A screen is completely irrelevant, it's BS marketing.
bruh, though that combo would be fire, to say that the screen is BS marketing is bullsh*t. Lotta of us out here want a screen so we aint always looking at a damn cellphone or tablet for our music info...that screen serves as huge purpose for alot of hifi heads....dont be out here speaking for us since you dont use one.
@@BIGGIEsmalls13 no it won't because the WIIM suffers from jitter and poor clocking. I asked them to improve that on the ultra but they went for useless to me features instead of improving the core functionality.
@@D1N02
Chord DACS have their own chip that reclocks the signal and does not use the clock data from an inputting device, so the Wiims shortcomings shouldn't make any difference.
I wonder.. when you say this speaker/amp etc. makes some thing sound more forward etc., doesn't that just mean the product either has a bump or dip in the frequency response in that section. And doesn't that mean you can EQ those things to your liking basically with any speaker/Amp?
For example, I bought a set of cheap computer speakers with a little sub and it sounded really bad. So instead of bying a set of better speakers, I added a bunch of treble and now they sound really good. My point is, why listen to 100 speakers, just pick a set of good/big enough that they physically can produce wanted frequencies and just EQ it to your taste.
Yes.. I know, I'm will never qualify as "audio-phile" when I have this level of heretical thoughts. Or it might be just that I have not never heard set of really good speakers.
It's interesting what they are doing in the Guitar amp world with modelling amps, that can emulate the sound of 'classic' amps, when they first came out a decade or so ago, they were laughed at because they sounded terrible.
Fast forward to today and they are taking over the market because they sound so good, you can dial up a 60's Fender or a Marshal sound etc., and no one tell the difference anymore.
As an audio enthusiast I wonder if the same thing could happen in the audio field, say, like recording a $50,000 stereo system in a perfect room, then being able to emulate that exact sound with a small cheap device.
It's like EQing to the max.
So you're willing to pay a hefty premium for the Cambridge product over Eversolo because the interface is better.
But you also say 'get used to it' when considering the Emotiva interface on the basX products, knowing how crappy that interface is.
Hmmn.
I'll stick to my computer (free) and Modi 3E. I don't really see value in a streamer relative to a PC/DAC combo.
How can the streamer independent of its DAC, which you can offload to an external DAC, possibly sound ANY different than any other streamer? As far as "jitter" is concerned, if jitter was such a problem, would that not be a GLARING problem that would cause people NOT to buy these streamers, irregardless of price? I can remember the mention of jitter in the paper stereo magazine ads for CD players, WAY back when CD players cost more than a car, so tell me, after all these years, audio equipment manufacturers STILL haven't got their acts together, unable to make a streamer that doesn't require a bank loan to deal with jitter? FROM CHINA no less? CAUGH (cash grab)..........
You sound a little 'man flu' infected. I hope you are in fine fettle for your upcoming trip. My method to make sure that I get a good stream - is it an Auralic? Sorted.
Can I recommend a product to review? I was looking at the Nvidia Shield as a streaming device for audio and video. It apparently has USB audio out, so you can stream directly into a good DAC and HDMI straight to the TV. Seems like the perfect device for us guys with a TV attached to the hifi system.
I wouldn’t. I’ve got the shield, fire tv, Apple TV, and the Apple TV sounds significantly better than the others I believe due to how the OS handles the audio. Software support for the shield is now basically gone, there is a 50ms audio lag on all Android based systems (which is a giveaway that the audio doesn’t get communicated directly with the hardware)
@18yearsoldnot no way!! I hadnt considered apple TV. Does the apple TV to bit perfect? I've read the shield can now do this via USB?
@ I don’t believe Apple TV is bit perfect anymore - it was for a while (at least where the sample rate was variable…) but it still sounds very good even resampled. I use the eARC receiver on my arcam dac/amp so you will need that. I also recall having problems with the USB on my shield pro where some Netflix content would crash unless the movie had “stereo 2.0 English” as one of the audio options… and prime video would just crash because it wouldn’t give you that option, so you were limited to Netflix. Bear in mind this was 5 years ago so Netflix may not give you that 2.0 track anymore… The problem with nvidia shield is its lack of mainstream support and therefore lack of developer support, as well as the fact it runs Android IMO means it is fundamentally designed to work on many many types of hardware hence the lack of directness in the audio drivers. There was an exception with this Android app called usb audio player pro, which had custom usb drivers, but you’d have to port it to your Android tv - which I have managed to do… but it ends up sounding worse than your Android phone possibly due to the fact it’s not running audiophile grade hardware… Cheapest option I’m afraid is Apple TV (with hdmi 2.1) to at least a bluesound n130 eARC, but then I would not convert eARC to spdif… so maybe get the Cambridge audio receiver if you want a serious system. Personally I really love the sound of the dac in the n130 to be honest!
Still fake reclocker advert? Still no any hand up, instead hand down.
Hmm my computer is so simple to use as a streamer ! I can use the remote from my AV to pull up my Music my computer . I know sell baby SELL !!
You are so right!!!!
If I am spending $4K on a system, I'll be using an external DAC. So why don't reviewers compare streamer performance WITHOUT their included DAC? Why should I spend money on a more expensive streamer (aside from features) simply because it has a better DAC? If I have my own DAC, that would be a big waste of money, unless again, it has extra features that I want.
Too many variables, i guess.
There's so many DAC's out there, the Reviewer can't cover them all, so if they recommend a streamer with a certain external DAC, it may not work so well with another brand of DAC, and they'll get trashed for it.
Besides that, Streamers are marketed to non audiophiles that just want one box convenience.
Oldguyhifi recommends Cambridge streamer...for 399...as better than the wiim....( Both can take an outboard dac)
@@galessi1226
Yes, but Cambridge don't have Amazon music, deal breaker for me.
@@SaintKimbo I get that, but I would just like to see a comparison using even a few external DACs. These types of comparisons are done with other components. I can see where different streamers may have jitter due to clock timing, but I don't see where else a difference could be.
@
i understand, but that's the itch that audio enthusiasts can never scratch, isn't it?
How much actual, objective information can you garner from these comparisons?
Joe Blow reviewer says that X streamer sounds better with X DAC, again there's so many variables, including, unfortunately brand 'loyalty'.
I'd rather have faith by Limp Bizkit :D
The screen is useless I’m 10ft away from it , too small I’ve a wimp going to a chord dac using my phone or Mac book to control it far better, I don’t see the sense in these small screen , that’s only my opinion
No more wiim mini and geiselli 😯 make me spend more money😂
I have a music streamer which is half the price of those mentioned cheap streamers, mine has a bigger screen, can install any streaming service, Certified Dolby audio, easy to use touch screen and plugs directly to my Yamaha AMP DAC. It's my lenovo tablet. I've tried dedicated streamers and they just don't do anything better and a lot of things worse. Sound quality is perfect.
This guy would get 100% wrong in a blind test
So don't watch.
I would bet no one could tell the difference between my second hand less than £250 set up and one of these £20,000+ set ups with their eyes closed. Amp 90 watts per channel THD 0.06%, bookshelf speakers 75 watts, and a small sub all run off a desktop computer. I don't pay to listen to music and I can find any version I want. People who spend huge amounts are just stupid.
Im gonna say false...because it all depends on what 250 (dollar/pound) setup you got and if you actually heard more expensive expensive systems before. Lotta people come on here talking this and that trying to build their cheap systems up in order to convince themselves there isnt nothing better outside their budget (so they dont FOMO out). Not to say your system doesnt hold up, but trust me, I have had tons of cheap setups and some scale up well--and there are many that flat out suck. So until you tell us your system, I am not believing it.
@@O.G.LIL-MAN The computer is quite new and reasonably good, the optical cable runs into a Yamaha DSP AX620 and then goes into wharfedale 75 watt bookshelf speakers x4 and a Yamaha NSSW050 Powered Subwoofer. Only the sub was new, the amp I picked up for £30 and the wharfedale's I've had for years, also second hand. I suppose you could argue technically on paper a high end system is better because of this and that but could your ears really hear the difference with your eyes close? I know some friends of mine who swear vinyl is better but the facts say otherwise and the same has to be said for human hearing.
Of course yours is best asr said so , you really need validation don't you , relax and don't be bitter and jealous about people that have more money than u , you won the Internet today
21seconds dang slipped 😂😂😂😂
4 min, just saw it. :)
@ all good brother we are all busy at times
I put together a sweet vintage Hi-Fi rig with brand new-like Sansui S-917 floor monitors and a 1977 Kenwood KA-7100 Integrated Amplifier + 1982 Technics M45 tape deck + Fluance turntable + a Marantz CD player.
I DONT STREAM A DANG THANG!
Seriously, I want total control over my media/music & streaming requires an interwebs connection & subscriptions = $$ ....no thanks.
Love muh cassette tapes, love muh vinyl, even like muh CDs.
Total control.
I agree with your point that the subscription and the need to have an internet connection to enjoy music is out of the question. I can’t afford to buy, let alone service vintage hi fi gear so that’s out of the question. I would buy a Marantz CD player definitely but again referring to the cost I would have to weigh the pro/cons to using my BluRay player with an external DAC. I grew up with LP’s. I like the idea of having the big covers and so on but don’t have the space to start a collection nor do I have a turntable, I do have a stereo Marantz receiver, the last one in a sea of home theatre receivers in the small Australian town I live in, on special that I’ve had for 14 years, took me awhile to be able to get decent speakers but I currently live with my Father and the lounge that only has room for a single chair is right next to my bedroom and it’s also very hot in summer and my fans are so noisy I can’t push the volume of the speakers enough without annoying my Dad so I actually listen to music in 4 ways, one is through free digital radio through the Blueray player, the sound going out of the headphone jack of the Marantz SR4023 Stereo Receiver into a Yamaha 6 Channel USB mixer which then feeds a pair of ik Multimedia iLoud micro monitors, so tiny music production studio monitors which are right next to my head on a table like you have for a hospital bed, I have an Apple iPad on a stand joined to that table that also connects to that mixer so I can put UA-cam music through that system, the mixer has it’s own Digital to Analog Converter so bypasses the iPad, but if I want to really get into something I use a Digital Audio Player connected to again a set of professional studio monitors which are designed for music production but also audio forensics which means unfortunately if it’s a crap recording it reveals it all, and in my car, streaming music is always lower quality doesn’t matter how much money people spend and the little micro monitoring speaker are capable of Bluetooth connectivity as is the Digital Audio Player but I don’t use it, I buy CD’s and rip them when I can, but I primarily listen to music to learn from it and a lot music I listen to I can’t buy in Australia, as well as that I can’t think of a single album where I like everything on it so I buy music from the Apple Store and put it on six devices an iPhone, iPad, Laptop, Digital Audio player, USB stick into the Blueray Player and into the car, don’t stream from my phone into the car it sounds like 💩 compared to the USB stick and when I listen to music, I listen to about an average of 1 and a half minutes of it, then move on to another one because I can recreate it in my head no problem but it helps occasionally to refresh the memory if I have music running in the background then it’s through the tv radio and I often pick up an electric guitar without the electricity and play over the top of it, don’t care for streaming but since I like Indian music, I’ve heard enough classic rock and country and blues and whatever else to last a life time so I listen to other stuff to get more ideas, UA-cam is a great resource for that and you do realise you are streaming something as you watch UA-cam no? But I get it, no way would I spent 500 AUS bucks on a “HiFi” streamer let alone thousands, Spotify and the rest can take a hike, subscription can kiss my rear end if you are American, if Australian subscription can get stuffed, if from UK it might be “not my cup of tea” but yeah got to have some physical media for when the internet goes down but if the lights go out and the power fails I’m covered also I can play it myself in my head or with my hands or sing it or whatever.
@ロクアンドロールしかないでも好きだ
I understand completely, bro. You do what ya gotta do to get what ya want and/or need.
I put my vintage rig together years ago well before everyone started to get into the "hobby" driving prices up to ridiculous amounts.
My Sansui S-917 floor speakers in still perfect condition I bought at a pawn shop for $35 for the pair. They're easily $700-$1000 today but, I wouldn't be able to replace them so, I'm keeping them.
And yes, it's not lost on me that I'm streaming YooToob but, not music. I love cranking my cassette tapes so the neighbors can enjoy my Soundgarden with me😂. Nah, I'm not a rude-boy in that regard but, I will crank the volume during the day when everyone else is working.
But, I get it, mate. You do what you have to do.
For me personally, I'm an old Tennessee hillbilly boy and just love the old ways especially my 1971 Chevelle Malibu 350 V8 convertible I bought back in 1985. Still own her, still drive her. I leave the phone at home and hit the road. Best medicine there is.