I used to spend so much time testing different equipment and collecting tons of mostly uncompressed music that by the time I had everything set up, I didn't listen to my music anymore. Now I just spend my free time "listening" to my music in the most simple way and it's more enjoyable.
@PS Audio, the asker of the question means that he has an optical or coax input on his CD player, which will access his DAC in there if he is using analog out on it. Also, there many cheap streamers that access the files directly from the internet and your phone is the controller. Two great ones are the Arylic S50 Pro and Chromecast Audio. The chromecast audio is no longer made but is an amazing streamers, especially when used with the optical out into a decent DAC.
Thanks for your informative videos. This one is going to come up more and more with the "engineering" types. I was investigating the same issue, until I remembered that I bought a USB DAC off eBay a few years ago. So I now reroute the digital information from the laptop via the DAC to another eBay bought valve preamp (Little Bear) into my main amp. Another way I did it was to use the Optical output of the Smart TV back into the Denon amp. The thing is, it sounds amazing (Tidal HI-FI) Then I start swapping out spreakers and placement and the living room is a mess in no time. You have to enter via the refrigerator 😂
Thanks for the tip, Paul! I pulled out my old HP laptop with HMDI port and connected it to my Marantz 8801 processor via HMDI cable. After a little bit of configuring, presto!! Before you know it, I had really decent sounding Spotify music filling the listening room. I've been fretting over this streaming business for several weeks and you just saved me many hundreds of dollars. Love your vids.
There are many CD and SACD players that have a DAC separately accessible via digital inputs. Usually they also have digital output in case you want to use the transport only into a different DAC.
@@myplaguesify good 1. I used to have combo with musical fidelity v-dac. Now I bought little bit modern V90 by musical fidelity with separate PSU. Slightly improvement.
The oppo has built in Tidal app for streaming master grade music through smartphones without using any USB devices. Chromecast audio has "cheap" built in dac. Enjoying both for music streaming. Not sure windows wav format music is "bad", it actually sounds good music from nas streaming. Your thoughts?
Bought a Bluesound node 2i in october last years 'just add streaming' discount action. For background music i use it with the internal dac. For serious listening i connect it to the dac section of my Marantz CD player. Great value in sound, easy to use and quite complete in the options.
@@davidfairchild1640 I'm powering with a standard official Pi power supply, I haven't found I need to use anything else, it still sounds great (to me). I tried Moode, Volumio, Rune and they are all great but I settled on Ubuntu with Audacious player. I like the player, it does bit perfect audio (as do all the ones I listed) and I get to use the Pi as a proper OS computer if I need to. I also get to play my music video collection through it this way. I use a Tisbury Mini Passive Pre Amp for attenuation, into a Teac a-h500i amp. Hope that helps, David. I got everything second hand/used so I haven't spent much money and it sounds great.
The adc dac+ pro enables (via pinout) the ability to wire neutrik combo jacks for balanced audio out, as well as input. That's a bit more than plug and play but it would enable a linux based room eq solution.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 Yes if you already have a computer that's close to your setup that's probably the cheapest but not everyone has a computer in their living room or bedroom. So if you can use what you already got but if you need to add a solution why not get something more dedicated? Also some computers are nosier than others, at around $250 the Pi + Pi2AES sounds better than any computer.
@@snowrang3r657 - I use a Raspberry Pi4 and love it, running RoPieee XL. It runs 24/7 and has rock solid performance. Never once has it crashed. Connected via USB to my Schiit Bifrost 2 Multibit.
some of cd players have DAC with digital preamp build in, I have Mark Levinson 390s and I have streamer/bridge connected directly to this cd processor, which is connected to amplifier, no separate preamplifier
just want to mention that i think you and your channel are great. You offer knowledge, good knowlegde, for free, cos you really like to share. Thx for that and greetings from germany.
One thing that I think about for streaming cheaply is to use a computer that has very low power usage, as they tend to be left on for long periods. Something like a Raspberry Pi or one of the low powered PC's will do the job. Regarding sound quality and an external DAC. For me it is vital to make sure that the PC is outputting the digital as original and unchanged. So 44Khz should be left as 44 Khz and not changed to 48 or even 96 Khz as that tottally messes up the sound. Lastly, I must mention that these days many CD players have digital in (and even built in Streaming) as does my Unison
Yes. Or, you could stream directly from the USB port into any DAC. I get great sound going from my Pi to a miniDSP DDRC-24, then out to my bi-amped speakers.
So many ways to go cheap on streaming. If you just want to try it and see if streaming is something you like. IFI Zen blue! very good for the price BT connection, also a coax out when you want to upgrade the dac later in a stage.
I forgot to add it's best to use an Ethernet cable and not a wireless modem for your computer's signal. Especially now with the Cat 6,7, and 8 Ethernet cables which really help you get the most out of your internet signal. You will find better sound quality using cables than any kind of wireless or "bluetooth" system connections.
I've used JRiver Media Center for years, and yes it has many features and functions, that's the appeal and what makes it such great value-for-money, but it's not really difficult to use.
The internal DACs in most newer Macs are actually quite good. Impedance becomes an issue, though, with the Mac DAC, I found. If I run, say, my Sony Professional studio monitors (63 Ohms), without a DAC/amp, the sound quality and volume suffer. My Bowers and Wilkins PX7s (32 Ohms), however, work just fine with the Mac’s DAC as do my powered Audioengine A5s. The issue, as Paul points out is streaming software. Audirvana has certainly mitigated bad audio from the Mac. I run Deezer through it with 1gig coming into the house. Fantastic sound for finicky streaming music.
I took Pauls advice and loaded audiovarna on my Mac mini which works a treat in bypassing the midi system. I also use a Chord DAC that is fed by a M2Tech HiFace Two High End USB Digital Interface to the Mac mini. I have to use the M2 as there are no USB drivers that support the Chord DAC when using the Mac mini. With Audiovarna installed you can see the DAC switching depending on the bit rate of the files being streamed. You can easily tell the difference between higher resolution files being streamed, nice bit of silt ware software 👍👍 Chris
Hi Paul. Love the comment on lipstick and "do-do". Just an update on the Audirvana software - this now appears to be subscription only as most others - so I'd throw Roon into the mix as a potential alternative. I really enjoy the bite-sized videos btw - it's really easy to fit in several a day. Regards
Bluesound Node 2i. Streamer/DAC that accesses all the streaming services. Keep the laptop away from the system, ignore the "audiophile software", and keep it simple.
Dang that's still around $500. Unless someone knows where to find one cheaper. Cuz I'm in the market for something just like this and I hav the money but I just can't get myself to spend more then 2 or 300 idk why. Might just have to bite the bullet. But I was totally ok with spending 3k on my speakers doesnt make any sense it's all in my head oh well
@@brandonbrodbeck6688 If you're a DIYer, you might investigate some Raspberry Pi solutions. If you are okay with CD-quality, an Airport Express is a great solution (I use one in another system). One primary difference between the Bluesound Node 2I and the other two solutions I mentioned is that the Bluesound connects directly to the internet and streaming services rather than streaming through your device (e.g. computer or smartphone) to the endpoint.
I installed a Creative Sound Blaster AE 5 Plus internal sound card dac on a high-end computer I built myself and use Amazon Music Plus and get excelent quality sound with no noise. I run it into a Yamaha CX-2 preamp Tape 2 selector connected to Yamaha MX 1 amp.
Cambridge audio azur740c has two digital imputs on the back and quite a lot of the cd recorders have coax and optical inputs. I did mine that way. great show as always.
LG stopped making pones and carriers are slowly ending support for them, but they have excellent internal DACS, I am using my old LG G7, (Used LG G6,7,8 can be had very cheaply right now) I use it at home on my secondary system on wifi to stream with Spotify, and it's functionally both a streamer and DAC. Also, they have an SD card slot , So I ripped my entire CD collection to Flac and saved it onto an SD card so I can play lossless music at home and also take it with me as a portable music player.
My sound system is built around my gaming PC. ( NAD 208 thx balanced power amp/Emotiva xda-2 balanced preamp-DAC/aDs 910 full-range standmounts ). I finally quit buying every album ( in hi-res formats ) I wanted to listen to and now use Amazon HD for streaming. Works great!
I have streamed Tidal from my Android TV via USB or Toslink to my Shiit DAC, and I have a chromecast audio with Toslink to my Shiit DAC and it sounds beautiful. The beauty of the chromecast is I can then use my phone as the UI.
@Will...because it hardly fits into the 'cheap' category when you really want cheap. And for the price there's many 'cheap' that sound just as good. Dac chips are inexpensive. The sprout doesn't use and in house build, rather off the shelf kind.
Hi Paul (and readers), what about a computer + the Tidal app for PC (of course, with the Tidal premium signature)? I learned that the Tidal app for PCs (not for cell phones) is bit perfect. So, I currently use my Windows laptop wired to the internet via ethernet cable and connect its usb output to the usb input of my KEF LS50W. Am I loosing anything? Would I get better sound if I get the Audirvana app for PC and stream (from Tidal) using it? Or it would be just the same as using the Tidal app? I would realy appreciate any comments on that. TKS!
Ricardo Me too. I have a separate hard drive loaded with my cd collection that I connect to my laptop with usb, and stream tidal straight from laptop via usb too dac. Why do I need another program in the laptop ?
@@NatMart9394 I think you would need another program in the laptop to stream from your hard drive to your DAC (I personaly would recommend Audirvana that is much cheaper than Roon) to get the best sound. It would ensure the perfect bit and that the signal would get the shortest path possible. My question is if the Tidal PC app already act as the Audirvana (or Roon, or etc.) and takes care of the signal for me. Best!
You will probably get significant improvement using Fidelizer. This program shuts down pretty much all processes and then is used to launch your streaming app. After that, get a renderer or bridge between the computer and the DAC. It is very hard to get good sound from a computer not built specifically for audio, but this will get you a long way down the road.
Thank you for this overview. I am a simple guy and kind of slow with all things electronics. Here's my simple question: I have a pair of Sonos Ones and a Sonos Sub Mini, and I use AirPlay 2 (not the Sonos app) to stream music and podcasts. *All I want to do is add my home stereo setup to AirPlay so that I can have synced whole-house audio.* Will a Wiim Mini (or the Pro) get me there? Thanks.
California audio labs CL-15 has an internal preamp with a coax input to use the 20bit dac in the unit as a external dac. It sounds F-in awesome. I use it with my DSP based phono pre.
I use my MacBook Air through my Dragonfly Cobalt and Into my over the ear headphones. Great sound. With Apple Music I get a nice equalizer. I will look into the other software you mentioned to bypass the crap on my Mac. If I use my external speakers I am happy with any streaming through my Roku.
Hi Paul. Thanks a lot for your great videos. I just aquired a DENON PMA1600NE with a build in DAC and I wonder if I need Audirvana if I use the Exclusive Mode in Tidal? Does the Exclusive mode not bypass all the badness of Windows handling the sound that you talk about in this video? For me I can't hear the difference on casual comparison between using Audirvana and Tidal Exclusive mode if I compare them. If I turn OFF the Tidal Exclusive when listening to Tidal it sounds AWFULL as you also mention in your video but if I turn Exclusive Mode on in Tidal I think it sounds like using Audirvana. Also, with the Tidal Exclusive mode I can see that my DAC responds and Changes Sample rate as per the Tidal resolution so it seems that Tidal is taking full control on the DAC when I put it in Exclusive mode. Care to elaborate a bit between Audirvana and Tidal Exclusive mode? Do I end up with a bit-perfect sound using Tidal Exclusive Mode or is there still a point using Audirvana that I miss if only using Tidal Exclusive Mode? Thanks a lot
Paul, I added Audirvana.. I'm streaming with my Alienware Dell laptop for now. Very clear but my bass went to heck No sub yet. Will the Dragonfly help? I'm using Your BHK pre & the M120 monos going into Focal Kanta 3s.
I run JPlay (I liked Audiirvana, but it wanted complete control over the input and I could not switch to other sources like UA-cam, Zoom, etc. without a settings change. Also liked Qobuz, but it was dropping out a lot and I switched back to Tidal. Laptop to a Schiit bifrost. Sounds pretty darn good. Just ordered a fanless mini PC from Lenovo for about $250 - looking forward to it.
You don't need the program. If you enable exclusive mode in Roon or Tidal you can have the program take full control of the output and the computer loses control of volume and everything. At least I think it is but I might be wrong. Not this also means all other programs are unable to play from that output.
can you elaborate a bit on how this works? I plug the dragonfly into my laptop, sign up for audirvana, and could connect my laptop to reciever via the 2nd usb?
Thanks Paul. I've got a little Schiit Modi so I checked out Audirvana. I DID NOT KNOW it was all this simple. I've been condfused about streaming for some time. What streamer? Internal or external DAC? ETC... I am freed from needless confusion. The good news is when I up-grade my DAC I will be able to utilize any improvements. Audirvana is exactly what I want ... I say no more but thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🤙
I stream with chrome cast audio. I plug it into my McIntosh amp. It sounds good to me. But do U think I could be getting significantly better sound with a dedicated streaming device?
I have a Marantz SR7002 receiver that I connect via HDMI to my laptop which runs Tidal in "Exclusive mode". I am just wondering what people think would be the 'weak link' in my setup (I have DIY speakers and the room optimized, and thus working my way back up the chain). Do people think that going to separates would be the biggest upgrade... and if so, getting a better and dedicated DAC, or a better and dedicated amp? Is running Tidal in Exclusive mode via HDMI the best way to optimize the computer side of things? Interested in anyone's thoughts / suggestions.
Are you running any audio software like Jplay or Audiirvana on your laptop? If not that might help significantly. I am not sure exactly what Tidal Exclusive Mode is, maybe that is similar to Jplay or Audiirvana..? The DAC and amps in your Marantz should be pretty good, but if you wanted to go nicer, sure you could get a high end desktop DAC, and go with a separate pre-amp and amp. Of course that gets much more expensive. The speakers are generally the most important thing in the whole line. I think it is also helpful to have a nice tuned in subwoofer to help out the bass in a 2.1 stereo system. If you don't have a sub, I would consider adding one. REL makes some good ones for music and are recommended by Paul here.
iPhone/iPad with Camera Adapter with extra Power Connection to a RME ADi-2 DAC FS (with ESS) / via PC to the RME DAC , Perfect Soundstage on Stereo (2.0 / 2.1) and on Headphone ; no or so small jidder and Disortation more as 120dB
I use the Qobuz app on my Mac, streaming into a Mojo DAC. This app bypasses the OS and streams directly to the DAC, I know this because the DAC reports the bit rate that it’s receiving and it always corresponds to the Qobuz reported rate. So in this case there is no reason to purchase another programme to stream to the DAC. I can’t speak for the Windows app.
My desktop computer has an optical output option and my integrated amplifier (Yamaha A-S301) has an optical input option, so I connect them via TOSLINK cable and it sounds pretty good to me. Does doing that bypass the computer's internal sound processing and send a "pure" unprocessed digital signal to the amplifier? And if so, is it still desirable to use an external DAC under this scenario?
For budget audio streams, I like to use an android tv box, usb audio player, connected to a dac via usb or or optical. It's fanless, much quieter and simpler than window/mac computers. You can use wifi hires streams, not just b.t.
That sounds like a good idea, using an Android TV box, I like the idea of a device having multiple uses, and I looked into it after reading your comment, but I wonder how you see what you are doing? I mean, how can you see/find the song you are searching for? I suppose you need to connect to a video display along with outputting the audio signal to a DAC, is that right?
My method of listening to music from the Internet is from Spotify; but mostly listening, and downloading from Amazon. I mostly listen to Amazon Music Prime. I connect my Topping D10 DAC to my Sony VAIO desktop computer (of 2003) that I upgraded to Windows 7. Connection for amplification is from an eSynic portable amplifier to the DAC with Linkerpard cables. My listening is with headphones, Base Audio G12, made in the USA. It is certainly a very good thing that there are hi fi audio made in America. I'm in Canada, but I support American made products; if I knew about Schiit, or PS Audio, I may have made those purchases instead.
I use a Audioquest Dragonfly DAC exclusively on my laptop, first used a Black ,then upgraded to a red, and i am about to try the the cobolt. I use Roon and download in flac files, sound quality with the Grado SR325E headphones is amazingly good.
Op yes you can use the dac in your cd player if it has a digital input. Otherwise those dragonfly devices are pretty good I use the cobalt one. Even the cheaper dragonfly is ok
If you have an iPhone there are several options that are much less expensive: 1-Apple Lightning to 3.5 mm Headphone Jack Adapter for $9 w/microscopic DAC 2- Belkin 3.5 mm Audio + Charge RockStar for $39 w/built-in DAC
That's a repurposed industrial conveyer for product distribution within a factory. Can also be used for loading dock transfer of boxes to the truck, or sales department. My local NAPA auto parts warehouse uses these to move stuff around. The glass top makes it a desk.
Hello,i use an SMSL M100 DAC which cost £60,and its made my PC sound amazing compared to before i used the M100,I also tried a £30 cheapo dac from Maplin and to my surprise it also made the PC sound awsome, BTW,i was streaming from Amazon Music and Spotify through my Pioneer LX56 and Monitor Audio RS6 speakers,was well happy with results, Great video as usual Paul,top man.
If you are using an iPhone you can by a used airport express that Apple used to make $25 used and it will stream your AirPlay strait into your amp. This thing actually sounds fantastic. It has a 3.5mm output that is also a toslink. I use one and it sounds way better than my Marantz CD player with its internal DAC.
Addressing this issue with my setup. Would I get good results with using Schiit Modi 3's Optical INPUT paired with a consumer device like the Apple TV w/ Optical versions or Google's Chromecast Audio w/ Toslink OUTPUT? I guess I don't know how importance the quality of the source PC vs Optical alternative IF its running through the Modi anyway. Thanks so much!
Alternative get a used Lumin D1, it’s a dac/streamer and sounds amazing. Plus you can directly use balanced xlr and upgrade it when you feel like it with a better power supply!
Would like to know any alternatives to Audirvarna for Mac now that they have a subscription service. I have heard HQ Player is recommended, but it might be too high-spec for me (power wise). Any other recommendations for non-subscription audio software/programs to bypass the Mac's signal into my DAC?
u can use a sony mds 920qs as dac(its not a cd player its a minidisc). it deoes the job. run it in bypass mode whitout eny disk in it(just hit the rec button). and u can even recorder if u need. .its not the best dac around but it does quite a ok job. and u will have ditigal and analog inputs i prefer to use digital inn on thoose. hidden gem ppl.
for my cheap portable dac i went with the ifi hip dac.. sound great, the bass boost is fantastic, does MQA and DSD, and its only 50 bucks more than a dragonfly (only cons are that it has a battery)
If I'm using pre/pro and I'm sending a signal from tidal on my phone to the processor with DAC, do I need something in between? Since it’s airplay, I guess it’s uncompressed signal and my pro have a good dac
so, windows/mac fiddle with the digital data signal before it enters an external dac (through optical or usb) from software you would use like that provided by a streaming service, be it qobuz, tidal, spotify etc?
Using a highend Linn Majik DSM as my home streamer I'm amazed how fantastic my cheap mobile phone with a good external USB DAC sounds. I use the NextDrive Spectra X. The Dragonfly could be cheaper or more expensive, depending on the model. So with a cheap phone and Dragonfly you could start from 200 bucks. And I assume it will sound much better than any pc. No fuss also if you use the free apps from Qobuz or Tidal.
Bah! You pick up a recent LG G or V-Series phone with an ESS DAC built in. Up until the 2020 V60, they are even full MQA renderers. You get a phone with an unparalleled manual camera to boot.
Go with an Raspberry Pi 4 - and an external USB DAC (I'm not a fan of the "hats") - and Volumio or Moode Audio ... you can get the feel of this setup for a reasonably low price (under $200 US) - you will be surprised at what you can do!!
I actually found the RPi3B+ sounded better than the RPI4 when used with an Allo Katana. Sounded really damn good infact :) Had to spend some serious money to upgrade it
My rare H/K HD990 24-bit/384kHz DAC with a 32-bit DSP with optical in/out for DAC throughput . . . twenty-years old, but hard to find anything better today.
There are freeware solutions to the computer side. Daphile is pretty close to the best audiophile operating system, it takes almost no resources, so you can run it on any old computer laying around, or even off a usb stick. Add a Schiit Audio DAC, or an Allo Katana (better than the cheap Schiit). Big improvement from this is to add a bridge (also called a renderer) between the computer and the DAC - I like the Allo USBSig (it is very good). After going down this rabbit hole for the last several years, I am using a SGC SonicTransporter i5, and a Sonore Orendu in front of a Matrix Audio Element-X DAC. You will be quite happy with Daphile and a Allo or Schiit DAC, and even more happy with the USBSig. Total cost is $400.00 for a USBSig and Loki DAC.
I used to spend so much time testing different equipment and collecting tons of mostly uncompressed music that by the time I had everything set up, I didn't listen to my music anymore. Now I just spend my free time "listening" to my music in the most simple way and it's more enjoyable.
This is the way.
@PS Audio, the asker of the question means that he has an optical or coax input on his CD player, which will access his DAC in there if he is using analog out on it. Also, there many cheap streamers that access the files directly from the internet and your phone is the controller. Two great ones are the Arylic S50 Pro and Chromecast Audio. The chromecast audio is no longer made but is an amazing streamers, especially when used with the optical out into a decent DAC.
Thanks for your informative videos. This one is going to come up more and more with the "engineering" types. I was investigating the same issue, until I remembered that I bought a USB DAC off eBay a few years ago. So I now reroute the digital information from the laptop via the DAC to another eBay bought valve preamp (Little Bear) into my main amp.
Another way I did it was to use the Optical output of the Smart TV back into the Denon amp.
The thing is, it sounds amazing (Tidal HI-FI)
Then I start swapping out spreakers and placement and the living room is a mess in no time.
You have to enter via the refrigerator 😂
Thanks for the tip, Paul! I pulled out my old HP laptop with HMDI port and connected it to my Marantz 8801 processor via HMDI cable. After a little bit of configuring, presto!! Before you know it, I had really decent sounding Spotify music filling the listening room. I've been fretting over this streaming business for several weeks and you just saved me many hundreds of dollars. Love your vids.
Spotify has the lowest quality of music. Apple and Amazon has Lossless and hi-res lossless
There are many CD and SACD players that have a DAC separately accessible via digital inputs. Usually they also have digital output in case you want to use the transport only into a different DAC.
Chromecast audio connected by optical spdif to separate DAC. The best, simplest solution.
Can't get much cheaper than this 👍🏻
Yes to that 👍
chromecast to d50s just the best combo for me
Only thing missing is gapless playback but a CCA into a Schiit Modi or a Topping E30 is a great starter streamer for peanuts!
@@myplaguesify good 1. I used to have combo with musical fidelity v-dac. Now I bought little bit modern V90 by musical fidelity with separate PSU. Slightly improvement.
Marantz SA8005 and other Marantz CD players have a USB-DAC on the back, and they sound pretty darned good too.
Oppo also👍
Esoteric also has! And Roon is the best on the computer!
Yep, I use my Marantz SA8004 as an outboard DAC as well.
The oppo has built in Tidal app for streaming master grade music through smartphones without using any USB devices. Chromecast audio has "cheap" built in dac. Enjoying both for music streaming. Not sure windows wav format music is "bad", it actually sounds good music from nas streaming. Your thoughts?
@@jasonlsimmons But roon is not cheap.
I just came across your content for the first time. You have such an endearing personality. Such a pleasure to watch. Thank you.
Bought a Bluesound node 2i in october last years 'just add streaming' discount action. For background music i use it with the internal dac. For serious listening i connect it to the dac section of my Marantz CD player. Great value in sound, easy to use and quite complete in the options.
RPI 4, an Allo Boss DAC HAT, and a Mophie 10k M/A to power it. Amazing sound for ~$150.
Same here but using a Pi 2 B, plus have the Allo attenuator for volume control.
+1 Raspberry Pi 4, Allo Boss Hat here too, sounds amazing. I understand the Pi isn't for everyone but it really isn't as difficult as it might look.
@@surreptitiousscreamer how are you powering? What OS are you using? I like Moode.
@@davidfairchild1640 I'm powering with a standard official Pi power supply, I haven't found I need to use anything else, it still sounds great (to me). I tried Moode, Volumio, Rune and they are all great but I settled on Ubuntu with Audacious player. I like the player, it does bit perfect audio (as do all the ones I listed) and I get to use the Pi as a proper OS computer if I need to. I also get to play my music video collection through it this way.
I use a Tisbury Mini Passive Pre Amp for attenuation, into a Teac a-h500i amp. Hope that helps, David. I got everything second hand/used so I haven't spent much money and it sounds great.
The adc dac+ pro enables (via pinout) the ability to wire neutrik combo jacks for balanced audio out, as well as input. That's a bit more than plug and play but it would enable a linux based room eq solution.
If you're technical can use a Raspberry Pi + Pi2AES, if not technical Bluesound Node 2i.
But if people has a computer already, why not just use that? That is the cheapest way to get started.
And they need some sort of DAC if they don't have it already. Streaming by analog from computer is not the best.
@@oysteinsoreide4323 Yes if you already have a computer that's close to your setup that's probably the cheapest but not everyone has a computer in their living room or bedroom. So if you can use what you already got but if you need to add a solution why not get something more dedicated?
Also some computers are nosier than others, at around $250 the Pi + Pi2AES sounds better than any computer.
@@snowrang3r657 - I use a Raspberry Pi4 and love it, running RoPieee XL. It runs 24/7 and has rock solid performance. Never once has it crashed. Connected via USB to my Schiit Bifrost 2 Multibit.
You can separate the DAC on my Yamaha CD-S2100. You can utilize the DAC for any source with it you want.
some of cd players have DAC with digital preamp build in, I have Mark Levinson 390s and I have streamer/bridge connected directly to this cd processor, which is connected to amplifier, no separate preamplifier
I like the red Swingline stapler on your desk. Milton would be proud.
just want to mention that i think you and your channel are great. You offer knowledge, good knowlegde, for free, cos you really like to share. Thx for that and greetings from germany.
Thanks, Michael!
One thing that I think about for streaming cheaply is to use a computer that has very low power usage, as they tend to be left on for long periods.
Something like a Raspberry Pi or one of the low powered PC's will do the job.
Regarding sound quality and an external DAC. For me it is vital to make sure that the PC is outputting the digital as original and unchanged. So 44Khz should be left as 44 Khz and not changed to 48 or even 96 Khz as that tottally messes up the sound.
Lastly, I must mention that these days many CD players have digital in (and even built in Streaming) as does my Unison
I use RPi4 + HiFiBerry DAC HAT and Volumio software cost me 90 pounds.
Yes. Or, you could stream directly from the USB port into any DAC. I get great sound going from my Pi to a miniDSP DDRC-24, then out to my bi-amped speakers.
So many ways to go cheap on streaming. If you just want to try it and see if streaming is something you like. IFI Zen blue! very good for the price BT connection, also a coax out when you want to upgrade the dac later in a stage.
I forgot to add it's best to use an Ethernet cable and not a wireless modem for your computer's signal. Especially now with the Cat 6,7, and 8 Ethernet cables which really help you get the most out of your internet signal. You will find better sound quality using cables than any kind of wireless or "bluetooth" system connections.
The Topping E30 is has a very nice bang for the buck. it has inputs for usb, toslink and dig coax and hovers around 150.00 .
Buy mercan, Schiit modi 3+ is only 99$
I've used JRiver Media Center for years, and yes it has many features and functions, that's the appeal and what makes it such great value-for-money, but it's not really difficult to use.
The internal DACs in most newer Macs are actually quite good. Impedance becomes an issue, though, with the Mac DAC, I found. If I run, say, my Sony Professional studio monitors (63 Ohms), without a DAC/amp, the sound quality and volume suffer. My Bowers and Wilkins PX7s (32 Ohms), however, work just fine with the Mac’s DAC as do my powered Audioengine A5s. The issue, as Paul points out is streaming software. Audirvana has certainly mitigated bad audio from the Mac. I run Deezer through it with 1gig coming into the house. Fantastic sound for finicky streaming music.
I have a MacBook Pro M1 the built in DAC handles 96kHZ audio. Both Apple Music and Amazon music has Lossless and Hi-Res Lossless up to 192kHZ
I took Pauls advice and loaded audiovarna on my Mac mini which works a treat in bypassing the midi system. I also use a Chord DAC that is fed by a M2Tech HiFace Two High End USB Digital Interface to the Mac mini. I have to use the M2 as there are no USB drivers that support the Chord DAC when using the Mac mini. With Audiovarna installed you can see the DAC switching depending on the bit rate of the files being streamed. You can easily tell the difference between higher resolution files being streamed, nice bit of silt ware software 👍👍 Chris
For very high quality at a semi-reasonable price the Chord Mojo 2 'mobile' DAC can't be beat
There are literally tons of CD players that have inputs for their DAC. It depends on what Meridian CD player he has.
Hi Paul. Love the comment on lipstick and "do-do". Just an update on the Audirvana software - this now appears to be subscription only as most others - so I'd throw Roon into the mix as a potential alternative. I really enjoy the bite-sized videos btw - it's really easy to fit in several a day. Regards
The Black Ice Audio Fusion DAC Transport has stand-alone DAC, coax, and Toslink inputs, and analogue and digital outputs.
Yes, I second the 'Dragonfly' suggestion!
Bluesound Node 2i. Streamer/DAC that accesses all the streaming services. Keep the laptop away from the system, ignore the "audiophile software", and keep it simple.
Mine was a game changer for me. You can also point it to a shared folder on a computer to stream all of your local library up to 192/24.
Must be getting on for 5 years enjoyment from my Node2.... Great value, compact unit with a superb user interface and scope for an external dac.
Absolutely agree. Love my Node 2i. Interface is great. Much better than laptop/audirvana I used to use. I run my node into an external dac.
Dang that's still around $500. Unless someone knows where to find one cheaper. Cuz I'm in the market for something just like this and I hav the money but I just can't get myself to spend more then 2 or 300 idk why. Might just have to bite the bullet. But I was totally ok with spending 3k on my speakers doesnt make any sense it's all in my head oh well
@@brandonbrodbeck6688 If you're a DIYer, you might investigate some Raspberry Pi solutions. If you are okay with CD-quality, an Airport Express is a great solution (I use one in another system). One primary difference between the Bluesound Node 2I and the other two solutions I mentioned is that the Bluesound connects directly to the internet and streaming services rather than streaming through your device (e.g. computer or smartphone) to the endpoint.
I got an rasberry pie. With a hifibery addon and coax out. 100 euro. Just need a dac hifibery has a free os designed for audio.
Love my Hifiberry DAC+ running on a Rasp PI 4!
Love mine too. Use Kodi with my NAS
I made a multiroom amp with Pie and hifiberry Amp+, works great.
Best thing about it is you can just flash whatever os you want. You want volumio. Spend 15 minutes and your done
Get an Allo USB Signature or a Digione. Add a Schiit DAC and you'll beat the Bluesound Node2i hands down for about the same money.
I installed a Creative Sound Blaster AE 5 Plus internal sound card dac on a high-end computer I built myself and use Amazon Music Plus and get excelent quality sound with no noise. I run it into a Yamaha CX-2 preamp Tape 2 selector connected to Yamaha MX 1 amp.
I have an Allo Boss2 Player and find it works great! I can be a ROON endpoint which makes it even better. About $200.
I just researched everything about streaming for last couple of days... and am glad you just said the same things what I am planning :)
Cambridge audio azur740c has two digital imputs on the back and quite a lot of the cd recorders have coax and optical inputs. I did mine that way. great show as always.
Paul, my Simaudio Moon Evolution series 650D CD Transport/DAC lets me stream through its DAC. Granted, its not 'on-the-cheap' though.
LG stopped making pones and carriers are slowly ending support for them, but they have excellent internal DACS, I am using my old LG G7, (Used LG G6,7,8 can be had very cheaply right now) I use it at home on my secondary system on wifi to stream with Spotify, and it's functionally both a streamer and DAC. Also, they have an SD card slot , So I ripped my entire CD collection to Flac and saved it onto an SD card so I can play lossless music at home and also take it with me as a portable music player.
My sound system is built around my gaming PC. ( NAD 208 thx balanced power amp/Emotiva xda-2 balanced preamp-DAC/aDs 910 full-range standmounts ). I finally quit buying every album ( in hi-res formats ) I wanted to listen to and now use Amazon HD for streaming. Works great!
USB can be converted to SPDIF and then run into a cd player but it would make more sense to get a USB converter.
I have streamed Tidal from my Android TV via USB or Toslink to my Shiit DAC, and I have a chromecast audio with Toslink to my Shiit DAC and it sounds beautiful. The beauty of the chromecast is I can then use my phone as the UI.
Bluesound Bluenode 2i 👍🏻
You have to love a guy that thinks of promoting his own dac third!
@Will...because it hardly fits into the 'cheap' category when you really want cheap. And for the price there's many 'cheap' that sound just as good.
Dac chips are inexpensive. The sprout doesn't use and in house build, rather off the shelf kind.
Hi Paul (and readers), what about a computer + the Tidal app for PC (of course, with the Tidal premium signature)? I learned that the Tidal app for PCs (not for cell phones) is bit perfect. So, I currently use my Windows laptop wired to the internet via ethernet cable and connect its usb output to the usb input of my KEF LS50W. Am I loosing anything? Would I get better sound if I get the Audirvana app for PC and stream (from Tidal) using it? Or it would be just the same as using the Tidal app? I would realy appreciate any comments on that. TKS!
Ricardo Me too. I have a separate hard drive loaded with my cd collection that I connect to my laptop with usb, and stream tidal straight from laptop via usb too dac. Why do I need another program in the laptop ?
@@NatMart9394 I think you would need another program in the laptop to stream from your hard drive to your DAC (I personaly would recommend Audirvana that is much cheaper than Roon) to get the best sound. It would ensure the perfect bit and that the signal would get the shortest path possible. My question is if the Tidal PC app already act as the Audirvana (or Roon, or etc.) and takes care of the signal for me. Best!
You will probably get significant improvement using Fidelizer. This program shuts down pretty much all processes and then is used to launch your streaming app.
After that, get a renderer or bridge between the computer and the DAC.
It is very hard to get good sound from a computer not built specifically for audio, but this will get you a long way down the road.
Thank you for this overview. I am a simple guy and kind of slow with all things electronics. Here's my simple question:
I have a pair of Sonos Ones and a Sonos Sub Mini, and I use AirPlay 2 (not the Sonos app) to stream music and podcasts. *All I want to do is add my home stereo setup to AirPlay so that I can have synced whole-house audio.* Will a Wiim Mini (or the Pro) get me there? Thanks.
Very happy with Audirvana and I do prefer it over JRiver which I had used for 5 yrs
California audio labs CL-15 has an internal preamp with a coax input to use the 20bit dac in the unit as a external dac. It sounds F-in awesome. I use it with my DSP based phono pre.
I use my MacBook Air through my Dragonfly Cobalt and Into my over the ear headphones. Great sound. With Apple Music I get a nice equalizer. I will look into the other software you mentioned to bypass the crap on my Mac. If I use my external speakers I am happy with any streaming through my Roku.
Hi Paul. Thanks a lot for your great videos. I just aquired a DENON PMA1600NE with a build in DAC and I wonder if I need Audirvana if I use the Exclusive Mode in Tidal? Does the Exclusive mode not bypass all the badness of Windows handling the sound that you talk about in this video? For me I can't hear the difference on casual comparison between using Audirvana and Tidal Exclusive mode if I compare them. If I turn OFF the Tidal Exclusive when listening to Tidal it sounds AWFULL as you also mention in your video but if I turn Exclusive Mode on in Tidal I think it sounds like using Audirvana. Also, with the Tidal Exclusive mode I can see that my DAC responds and Changes Sample rate as per the Tidal resolution so it seems that Tidal is taking full control on the DAC when I put it in Exclusive mode. Care to elaborate a bit between Audirvana and Tidal Exclusive mode? Do I end up with a bit-perfect sound using Tidal Exclusive Mode or is there still a point using Audirvana that I miss if only using Tidal Exclusive Mode? Thanks a lot
The FiiO E10K matchbox sized DAC/headphone amp is also a good little USB piece of gear for the money.
Paul, I added Audirvana.. I'm streaming with my Alienware Dell laptop for now. Very clear but my bass went to heck No sub yet. Will the Dragonfly help? I'm using Your BHK pre & the M120 monos going into Focal Kanta 3s.
I use an LG V60 phone with its quad DAC built in. I run out headphone Jack to schiit audio headphone amp. Works great for me.
I run JPlay (I liked Audiirvana, but it wanted complete control over the input and I could not switch to other sources like UA-cam, Zoom, etc. without a settings change. Also liked Qobuz, but it was dropping out a lot and I switched back to Tidal. Laptop to a Schiit bifrost. Sounds pretty darn good. Just ordered a fanless mini PC from Lenovo for about $250 - looking forward to it.
TIDAL ->windows 10 -> dolby atmos over HDMI -> receiver pre-outs (dac) -> amplifier. probably the cheapest and the best?
I have Harman/Kardon HD990 CD player that has a DAC you can use with an outside source, I play some of my files or streaming via the HK.
Consider also investing in an IFi iPurifier 3 USB if you intend to use a pc or mac as a source
Marantz SA10(CD/DAC)Can be used as a separate is a DAC.
You don't need the program. If you enable exclusive mode in Roon or Tidal you can have the program take full control of the output and the computer loses control of volume and everything. At least I think it is but I might be wrong. Not this also means all other programs are unable to play from that output.
can you elaborate a bit on how this works? I plug the dragonfly into my laptop, sign up for audirvana, and could connect my laptop to reciever via the 2nd usb?
Thanks Paul. I've got a little Schiit Modi so I checked out Audirvana. I DID NOT KNOW it was all this simple.
I've been condfused about streaming for some time. What streamer? Internal or external DAC? ETC...
I am freed from needless confusion. The good news is when I up-grade my DAC I will be able to utilize
any improvements. Audirvana is exactly what I want ... I say no more but thank you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!🤙
JRiver is my favorite and its not that hard to use once set up its the best out there IMHO
I stream with chrome cast audio. I plug it into my McIntosh amp. It sounds good to me. But do U think I could be getting significantly better sound with a dedicated streaming device?
I have a Marantz SR7002 receiver that I connect via HDMI to my laptop which runs Tidal in "Exclusive mode". I am just wondering what people think would be the 'weak link' in my setup (I have DIY speakers and the room optimized, and thus working my way back up the chain). Do people think that going to separates would be the biggest upgrade... and if so, getting a better and dedicated DAC, or a better and dedicated amp? Is running Tidal in Exclusive mode via HDMI the best way to optimize the computer side of things? Interested in anyone's thoughts / suggestions.
Are you running any audio software like Jplay or Audiirvana on your laptop? If not that might help significantly. I am not sure exactly what Tidal Exclusive Mode is, maybe that is similar to Jplay or Audiirvana..? The DAC and amps in your Marantz should be pretty good, but if you wanted to go nicer, sure you could get a high end desktop DAC, and go with a separate pre-amp and amp. Of course that gets much more expensive.
The speakers are generally the most important thing in the whole line. I think it is also helpful to have a nice tuned in subwoofer to help out the bass in a 2.1 stereo system. If you don't have a sub, I would consider adding one. REL makes some good ones for music and are recommended by Paul here.
iPhone/iPad with Camera Adapter with extra Power Connection to a RME ADi-2 DAC FS (with ESS) / via PC to the RME DAC , Perfect Soundstage on Stereo (2.0 / 2.1) and on Headphone ; no or so small jidder and Disortation more as 120dB
I use the Qobuz app on my Mac, streaming into a Mojo DAC. This app bypasses the OS and streams directly to the DAC, I know this because the DAC reports the bit rate that it’s receiving and it always corresponds to the Qobuz reported rate. So in this case there is no reason to purchase another programme to stream to the DAC. I can’t speak for the Windows app.
My desktop computer has an optical output option and my integrated amplifier (Yamaha A-S301) has an optical input option, so I connect them via TOSLINK cable and it sounds pretty good to me. Does doing that bypass the computer's internal sound processing and send a "pure" unprocessed digital signal to the amplifier? And if so, is it still desirable to use an external DAC under this scenario?
I would like to know this as well.
For budget audio streams, I like to use an android tv box, usb audio player, connected to a dac via usb or or optical. It's fanless, much quieter and simpler than window/mac computers. You can use wifi hires streams, not just b.t.
That sounds like a good idea, using an Android TV box, I like the idea of a device having multiple uses, and I looked into it after reading your comment, but I wonder how you see what you are doing? I mean, how can you see/find the song you are searching for? I suppose you need to connect to a video display along with outputting the audio signal to a DAC, is that right?
My method of listening to music from the Internet is from Spotify; but mostly listening, and downloading from Amazon. I mostly listen to Amazon Music Prime. I connect my Topping D10 DAC to my Sony VAIO desktop computer (of 2003) that I upgraded to Windows 7. Connection for amplification is from an eSynic portable amplifier to the DAC with Linkerpard cables. My listening is with headphones, Base Audio G12, made in the USA. It is certainly a very good thing that there are hi fi audio made in America. I'm in Canada, but I support American made products; if I knew about Schiit, or PS Audio, I may have made those purchases instead.
I have an xDuoo Link $45 DAC/Amp, plugged into USB on my ancient PC, Jriver 27, and i listen to DSD256 through ASIO. Feels good.
Currently looking through Schiit Audio's DACs to go with the headphone amp I'm getting from them :P
I use a Audioquest Dragonfly DAC exclusively on my laptop, first used a Black ,then upgraded to a red, and i am about to try the the cobolt. I use Roon and download in flac files, sound quality with the Grado SR325E headphones is amazingly good.
Op yes you can use the dac in your cd player if it has a digital input. Otherwise those dragonfly devices are pretty good I use the cobalt one. Even the cheaper dragonfly is ok
The conveyor belt table is nice.
If you have an iPhone there are several options that are much less expensive:
1-Apple Lightning to 3.5 mm Headphone Jack Adapter for $9 w/microscopic DAC
2- Belkin 3.5 mm Audio + Charge RockStar for $39 w/built-in DAC
intrigued about the desk, what are the tubes inside of it?
That's a repurposed industrial conveyer for product distribution within a factory. Can also be used for loading dock transfer of boxes to the truck, or sales department. My local NAPA auto parts warehouse uses these to move stuff around. The glass top makes it a desk.
@@jamesplotkin4674 oh yeah, so it is , ha
Hi paul, where did you go to high school, mountain view? los altos? You look familiar.
That's exactly the question I'm asking to myself since 24 hours.... ^^
Roon is SO EXPENSIVE for the job I need...
Hello,i use an SMSL M100 DAC which cost £60,and its made my PC sound amazing compared to before i used the M100,I also tried a £30 cheapo dac from Maplin and to my surprise it also made the PC sound awsome, BTW,i was streaming from Amazon Music and Spotify through my Pioneer LX56 and Monitor Audio RS6 speakers,was well happy with results,
Great video as usual Paul,top man.
If you are using an iPhone you can by a used airport express that Apple used to make $25 used and it will stream your AirPlay strait into your amp. This thing actually sounds fantastic. It has a 3.5mm output that is also a toslink. I use one and it sounds way better than my Marantz CD player with its internal DAC.
If your CD player has an optical or coax in (or USB-A input), it gives you its DAC
Hello, I like your videos so much teaching in a sincere way about different subjects. Thanks!
You can use an old MiniDisk deck - put into record standby with spdif coming in from your computer via optical cable...
Addressing this issue with my setup.
Would I get good results with using Schiit Modi 3's Optical INPUT paired with a consumer device like the Apple TV w/ Optical versions or Google's Chromecast Audio w/ Toslink OUTPUT? I guess I don't know how importance the quality of the source PC vs Optical alternative IF its running through the Modi anyway. Thanks so much!
Alternative get a used Lumin D1, it’s a dac/streamer and sounds amazing. Plus you can directly use balanced xlr and upgrade it when you feel like it with a better power supply!
My Harman/Kardon CD player has a built in DAC with optical and coax in. Other newer players from others have USB too. There are a few out there
Would like to know any alternatives to Audirvarna for Mac now that they have a subscription service. I have heard HQ Player is recommended, but it might be too high-spec for me (power wise). Any other recommendations for non-subscription audio software/programs to bypass the Mac's signal into my DAC?
u can use a sony mds 920qs as dac(its not a cd player its a minidisc). it deoes the job. run it in bypass mode whitout eny disk in it(just hit the rec button). and u can even recorder if u need. .its not the best dac around but it does quite a ok job. and u will have ditigal and analog inputs i prefer to use digital inn on thoose. hidden gem ppl.
The REGA CD player has a DAC that is available externally for connections.
I got this is not the latest vlog in which you recommend audervata, but I was wondering how does Roon stacks up against your recommendations?
If your on an apple, just get a apple airport express (version 2). And stream lossless via airplay. You can get a used airport for $20.
for my cheap portable dac i went with the ifi hip dac.. sound great, the bass boost is fantastic, does MQA and DSD, and its only 50 bucks more than a dragonfly (only cons are that it has a battery)
If I'm using pre/pro and I'm sending a signal from tidal on my phone to the processor with DAC, do I need something in between?
Since it’s airplay, I guess it’s uncompressed signal and my pro have a good dac
so, windows/mac fiddle with the digital data signal before it enters an external dac (through optical or usb) from software you would use like that provided by a streaming service, be it qobuz, tidal, spotify etc?
Using a highend Linn Majik DSM as my home streamer I'm amazed how fantastic my cheap mobile phone with a good external USB DAC sounds. I use the NextDrive Spectra X.
The Dragonfly could be cheaper or more expensive, depending on the model.
So with a cheap phone and Dragonfly you could start from 200 bucks. And I assume it will sound much better than any pc. No fuss also if you use the free apps from Qobuz or Tidal.
But how would I then connect say my Imac to my Yamaha av receiver which has already a built in DAC from ES Sabre?
@Jingle Nuts ??
Bah! You pick up a recent LG G or V-Series phone with an ESS DAC built in. Up until the 2020 V60, they are even full MQA renderers. You get a phone with an unparalleled manual camera to boot.
The Meridian 808 have a digital input. It doesn’t have a USB input. All you need is audiovarna and a usb to spiff converter!
Go with an Raspberry Pi 4 - and an external USB DAC (I'm not a fan of the "hats") - and Volumio or Moode Audio ... you can get the feel of this setup for a reasonably low price (under $200 US) - you will be surprised at what you can do!!
I actually found the RPi3B+ sounded better than the RPI4 when used with an Allo Katana.
Sounded really damn good infact :)
Had to spend some serious money to upgrade it
Emotiva ERC-4 CD player accept external SPDIF and Toslink inputs to enable its DAC to be used with a streamer that has SPDIF/Toslink output
I’m new to all high quality streaming I was wondering if I wound benifit if I used Audirvana on standard UA-cam would that be a substantial difference
My rare H/K HD990 24-bit/384kHz DAC with a 32-bit DSP with optical in/out for DAC throughput . . . twenty-years old, but hard to find anything better today.
There are freeware solutions to the computer side.
Daphile is pretty close to the best audiophile operating system, it takes almost no resources, so you can run it on any old computer laying around, or even off a usb stick.
Add a Schiit Audio DAC, or an Allo Katana (better than the cheap Schiit).
Big improvement from this is to add a bridge (also called a renderer) between the computer and the DAC - I like the Allo USBSig (it is very good).
After going down this rabbit hole for the last several years, I am using a SGC SonicTransporter i5, and a Sonore Orendu in front of a Matrix Audio Element-X DAC.
You will be quite happy with Daphile and a Allo or Schiit DAC, and even more happy with the USBSig. Total cost is $400.00 for a USBSig and Loki DAC.