Our average week day trips are around 50 to 80 miles, weekends typically a round trip of 260 miles. All of which is easy to cater for using the Tesla MYLR and home charging although right now we are between homes so we use Tesla supercharging a couple of times a week
@@Un-Apologetic I’d love to see where you charged. As 480 miles is definitely 2 20 to 80% charges and I’m typically seeing ccs charge rates averages between 60 and 80kWh. 480 miles is an epic drive in the uk 10 hours plus of driving plus to charging stops. With 75 % of charge you probably had to pop in 50 kWh at each stop which may have been outside the optimum charge rate for this Battery. In my EV experience the charge rate over 80% drops to between 10 and 20kWh. On shorter 320 mile journeys I have had to drop in a 15 to 20 minute stop at 140 and 280 miles to get optimised charging and then find a destination charger to charge to 100% for the return.
@@tobycolin6271 - what locations and in which cars are you experiencing these typical charge rates? The charge rate curves of different vehicles vary a fair bit.
@ I’m not going to name models and charge sites I am always worried about these things but I haven’t used Tesla super chargers or cars and all the cars claimed charge rates of 150 kWh and 20 to 80% charge times of less than 30 minutes. That’s why I shortlisted them and took them for test drives. I got similair results to those seen on the BMW in the video. The best I have seen was on a Tesla website where a 50kWh charge was delivered in 30 minutes their may be shorter charge rates but for those of us without of street charging a rapid 40kWh charge is kind of my bench mark. What I was hoping for is that loads of people would reveal the cars that can charge at a decent rate for a long duration. After trying a few cars I kind of gave up when I saw similair results in the video with chargers with low utilisation I was wondering if it’s the car or the charger installation. At charge rates at 1kW per minute or 60kWh is not convenient for me.
To get around the issue of variable usage pattern I quite like the solution Neo were looking at of battery swapping. You could have a light 20-30 kWh battery in the car most of the time and then when you make that long drive you swap it out for a 80 kWh or larger battery I guess to make that financially viable you would need a lot more than 150 cycles out of the battery.
Dave, LFPs gravimetric energy density averages to 150Wh/kg these days for the current generation, and 180 to 220Wh/kg for next-gen LFPs already in production and due be in cars in 2025. Perhaps the most intriguing announcement in the last few months was the Hyundai one of working on a 300Wh/kg LFP battery to be available later in 2025. CATL's Freevoy battery is specifically designed for range extenders (series-PHEVS), it's optimised (projected to be a 64kWh) battery pack to drive on electric only power for about 250 miles, then up to a further 1,000 miles via a small petrol powered electric generator (not connected to the wheels). The battery is aimed at target markets requiring very long journeys to be made (China, Australia, US, Canada etc.), where charging in remote locations can be challenging. The Lithium-Ion 'buffer' battery element (the battery modules are mixed AB cell designs) is optimised to receive a frequent charge from the petrol generator (as well as when plugged-in), and pass power onto the car's motor, plus shuffle charge to/from the slower charging/discharging Sodium-ion mass energy storage batteries. The Sodium-ion batteries decreasing the overal cost of the pack and increase the electric only range of range extenders, for in city/daily use, at a price point that makes these type of vehicles still economical to purchase (duel fuel-type vehicles are typically more expensive than electric only ones with cheaper LFP batteries). The trade-off is increased battery pack weight, and hence lower electric only range efficiency, although for their intended market the lower electric only range is offset by the presence of a petrol-generator but at the cost of more emissions (when on long trips, typically out of town/cities though). The Tesla "range extender battery" concept is not in production (yet), was first patented back in 2013 but stil to my knowledge remains an area of active research. The batteries in Tesla cars are a mix of LFP, NCA and NCM chemistries from various battery makers (including CATL, Panasonic, LG Chem and Tesla themselves) actual battery type used varies by model and vehicle production location. The new Tesla 4680 battery is a high Nickel and low Cobalt/Manganese (811 mix) NCM battery, using a dry electrolyte and pure graphite anode, rather than a Li-Metal hybrid anode.
The only thing that is stopping me buying an Ev is I can’t charge at home and the council refuse me to install a cable gully across the pavement and prices for fast charge too expensive, no charge insensitive at supermarkets/ workplace.
My daughter has the same problem with Redbridge Council in London. Different councils have different policies. Nottinghamshire Council allows you to have a gulley fitted for a fee but Redbridge don’t allow it. Luckily there are reasonably priced fast chargers just round the corner. We do need more councils to allow this to happen
@@davesound7188apparently all these charge networks like Gridserve and Osprey are losing money even at 79p & 85p per kWh. Don't expect any price reductions only price increases. It won't be long before prices are £1 per kWh. They have been in the past.
I can't charge at home - live in a flat. But I'm 5 years and 2 EVs in and especially now it's less of an issue. Chargers have begun to pop up like Christmas sprouts! I concede costs of public charging are an issue, but I think roughly equates to ICE fuelling. There are some really well priced chargers tho. I tend to charge overnight with Believ and it's a lot cheaper with an account
What a great idea to use 2 different parts of the battery with different chemistries, with a smaller super high density. I rarelydo any trips above 150 miles in one go, so most trips are super easy. Longer trips will require a charge stop but in my experience the last few longer trips had stops around 10 to 12 minutes. I want a longer break on long trips so find it crazy how much quicker the Tesla is at charging than my previous E Niro. BTW Coffee and donuts sound great!
The Tesla 'hybrid' battery is currently a research area rather than in production or use (Tesla's new 4680 batteries are not based on 'hybrid' technology). The reason some Tesla's will charge more quickly than the Niro is definitely down to battery design but in a different way, the Niro used older low-Nickel NCM batteries whilst some Tesla's use more expensive high-Nickel batteries that have a higher power density and can charge faster. The other reason is the Niro had lower power DC eletronics to charge the battery, which is why the Tesla with LFP batteries also charges faster than the Niro. The same is true if one compares Kia's Niro with say it's EV3, which has a higher powered batteries and charging electronics than the Niro so charges quicker as well.
@GruffSillyGoat Thanks for posting that explanation. I am fully aware of this information and agree completely with you, alsoseeing the benefit of posting this for information of people new to EV's.
My daughter took a mini EV for her first EV test drive - they even let her take it home for the weekend. A mile and a half later she got a drive train error and the car conked out - with 85 miles on the clock. She had to wait for hours for collection.... Anyway she got an Uber back to the garage next day, and when she told her tale to the Uber driver he started ranting and literally shouting about EVs and E cigarettes being a government conspiracy. Apparently a "scientist " has told the Uber driver that there aren't enough "Lithuanians" (rather than Lithium) in the world to make enough batteries.... Cue images of lots of little eastern European feet peddling inside the batteries a la Pratchett. Why aren't you telling us the truth about the new Lithuanian battery tech Dave?😂
I do think that plenty of diesels can do around 1000 miles if driven gently. But the point stands, you don't need crazy range for most applications. Now that most EVs can go further than most would want to go without a break, we simply top up in those breaks on longer trips.
New battery tech and mixing ideas are great. The 1000 mile tank argument is silly though. ICE never needed this as the 500-600 mile range they have with a 5 minute refill is plenty. EV's are getting there with range and the reason they could do with a bit more is so people can make a 200 mile journey each way and return the car to cheap overnight charging at their homes and not need to stop for half an hour at an expensive DC motorway charger. The best compromise available at the moment is offered by Tesla with their range and supercharger rates.
Indeed - I don't often need 1000 miles range for one trip, but to be able to charge the battery to 80% and do a return trip from my home in the North West to the South Coast, where my mum lives, or to Haywards Heath where I go fairly frequently (probably monthly) would be really useful for me. There would be no need to use public chargers whatsoever.
@@beneliastrains currently the answer could be phev. Do nearly all the driving (comuting) as an EV then just use some petrol for the occasional long trip. Also with the right phev (not a CVT) you can enjoy reving through the gears. But the next problem is luxury car tax as decent ev and phev both are going to cost £2.5k in additional tax. Silly government making this hard for everyone
@@demiquadfpv3333you can pick up a great PHEV for well under £40k. We have a Citroen C5 Aircross Hybrid PHEV and love it. We use it 95% on electric motor and charge for 7p per kWh overnight. It returns around 45-48 mpg when on petrol. I have a 2.0tdi also so any mega journeys we do in that. PHEV is the future in my opinion but again only if you can charge at home. Charging at 79p per kWh would equate to 30p per mile.
@@beneliastrainsI think it’s all about changing our mindset about commuting. Yes it’ll be more inconvenient for some of the time but way more beneficial for most of the time. We need to move away from fossil fuels because despite what all the conspiracy theorists think there is a scientific link towards poor health.
Not sure that Plug in Hybrids are on their way out. UK market share still 10% and China PHEV sales growing strongly whilst full electric stagnating. Suggest you do an episode on PHEVs and how to use them to their full potential..
They are a stop gap for those EV guys to keep selling cars while they await batteries with better performance and range. Gain some market share from those not fully ready for EVs, while not losing money with a glut of vehicles that some people aren't ready to buy.
@@waynerm002for some they allow enjoying changing gears and the sound and feeling of ice whilst allowing cheap green comuting and the daily work/school runs. Driving is not just A-B for alot of people
@@demiquadfpv3333 I understand, I was one of those people. I was going to trade in my Optima hybrid for an Audi e-tron but, after running the numbers, I traded my Stinger GT2 AWD instead. The Audi discount put it in the range of the next Stinger I was planning on upgrading to, charging at home, cut fueling cost big time. Got a $1K rebate from power company and low rate for charging at home overnight. Range was 222 miles but more like 174-186 miles with the speeds on the highway (not the way I drive, 😅. I didn't get in the hybrid game when the incentives were great, happy I did it with the EV. Had no gears to row but, still got enough fun from the instant torque, from a stop or at highway speeds. I don't miss the engine sounds, got used to not hearing it all the time in the hybrid and I certainly preferred not having to spend the cash on gas.
Your all missing the big elephant in the room, no ICE manufacturer wants you to get a full EV as they cost them more to make and they don't make as much from servicing them. Also take a look at VW's 2.0 diesel engine, how old is it, they'd much rather you kept buying their old rubbish than invest in something newer and better. This is one of the main reasons the Chinese were forced into developing their own tech.
Ok for the vast majority then. For those it's not you can buy, for additional cost, a bigger regular battery. LIke most things in life, if you need (or want) something others don't, you pay extra for it.
Surley as range extender based hybrids are designed for those needing to cross large countries with poor infrastructure, offering an extended 1,000 miles range by topping the car up with petrol, whilst at the same time reducing the impact on health as they drive around town (on electric only), then it seems very well apt at supporting someone who regularly travels long distance. It's not clear why you say such a car wouldn't work for you on the basis of needing to regularly drive long range journeys, particular in a car who's range (1,300 miles combined electric and petrol extended) exceeds that of ICE cars on the market. What's more they'll be cheaper to run than a pure or other type of hybrid-ICE, as the petrol generators run in a more optimal range converting more of the fuel energy to electricity, which the car then uses more efficiently to power the wheels. Although range extenders are more expensive to buy, maintain and run than a pure-EV, due to being more complex and not as efficient, for those needed regular long journey they are more economical until battery only range increases to the same level or remote infrastructure improves.
@GruffSillyGoat The range extender is for b.e.v' s for people only needing to travel long distances a couple of times a year with a maximum charging cycles of 150 times
@@kpsmithz - Ah it seems Dave has confused you by pivoting to the Tesla research piece on hybrid battery cells. This still remains a research topic rather than an actual product, one that involves Jeff Dahn (one of the pioneers of Lithium-ion batteries) who partners with Tesla on research. The battery that Dave brought up was one that Tesla patented back in 2013, although the graphics and content Dave used in the video are from Jeff's 2020 research paper, which discusses increasing battery performance by 20% (a high number at the time) by incorporating Lithium metal anode. Since then research and commercialisation has shifted to graphine, silicon and sulphur anode materials that offer higher energy and power densities with longer cycle lifes. However, I'm referring to actual Freevoy battery system from CATL that is being deployed in range extendeds today, such as the AVATR07 mentioned in the video. This doesn't have the 150 charging cycle limit rather is in the thousands of cycles for the battery (enough to last 20 to 30 years even with daily use). The CATL battery is designed to be coupled with a small electric petrol generator to charge on the go, particulary suited for those travelling long distances across remote areas without charging infrastructure.
Yes but after 150 long journeys you have to replace the entire battery. Far better to seperate the short and long range into separate modules, and swap out the NMC or shorter life battery modules when needed.
Technically, Audi had a car capable of well over 1,000 miles, and set the world record for distance travelled on a single tank of petrol in it; however it was an 18.5 UK gallon tank, and the car was driven at a fast idle of around 16 mph on a flat circular circuit - changing driver during the multi-day challenge meant bailing out while the car was moving. However, even at more realistic speeds, I regularly managed over 800 miles from mine (1983 Audi 100 2.2CD); the year after, they bored the engine out to 2.3 for extra power, and completely fucked up the efficiency, all the way down to an official combined average mpg of 28. There seem to be lots of new tech battery designs - just over the production horizon; and I wonder if the constant news about them - most of which turn out to be vapourware - is what is stopping some people from taking the plunge? The latest I heard is "Hyundai solid state batteries in pre-production" (yesterday). Keep up the good work.
Solid state is the holy grail but the term is already being twisted by manufacturers to mean something else because no one has come close to cracking it yet.
I would be interested in an EV for my next car, but I can't get a smart meter installed to take advantage of cheap overnight charging due to signalling issues (radar from Fylingdales that senses a nuclear attack). The energy companies have promised a solution for years, but delivered zilch!
Two instant options: just Use standard rate at about 25p it’s the cheapest rate you’ll find and equates to 6-8p per mile, half the price of petrol. Or switch to another utility and opt for a smart meter. Let them worry about getting it working but while they do, most offer an interim rate of less than 20p.
BMW’s cleanest and greenest 3 Series ever has just completed a record-breaking journey from the UK to Munich and back - on one tank of fuel. Filled up at the Channel Tunnel, the new BMW 320d EfficientDynamics Saloon made it to Munich, then as far as Lille on the return leg - a staggering total of 1,013 miles on a single tank of fuel - before needing to be refuelled. To put it in a UK geographic context, the distance achieved would have meant being able to drive from Land’s End to John O’Groats, and still having 200 miles range left in the tank. This was 14 years ago. Please tell the truth.
hi Dave what do you think of macmaster statement about porche saying not to park near you house as can catch fire and the insurance company possible no longer insuring car or house. due to porches statement
Sadly this misses the problems that an ev still has. These include range, cost and charging times. You suggest that a 200 mile range is comparable to a 1000 mile range doesn't help. Now don't get me wrong if a sustainable battery powered vehicle that charges at about the same speed of a normal vehicle with a range of 4-600 miles (like a normal car) so that I only need to charge the battery beyond say 80% if I need to do a long journey like a normal car while keeping the price of both the energy and replacement of the battery comparable in cost to a normal car. Managing all this while also bringing down the cost to a reasonable level to buy and creating a battery that isn't so harmful to the environment both when made and once the end of life disposal of the battery then this would be potentially worth it. I look forward to seeing the progress but as it stands these are not a reasonable alternative.
I would strongly suggest you hire an EV and go on a road trip yourself before spouting such stereotyped incorrect lies and myths. Or at least talk to one of the million EV drivers in the UK who cope perfectly will and thoroughly enjoy their ownership
@davetakesiton already done. Also my brother in law has a polestar and a close friend has an ev van. I am well aware of how ev vehicles work and although unlikely to see the light of day I even have ideas on ev motorhomes. You see that I am anything but against the idea in principle so instead of insulting me perhaps understand the correct statements I listed above. People are too quick to judge and also insult people who have a counter argument rather than presenting a solution.
@@crm114. good for Tesla. I seriously doubt that's consistent with all manufacturers and even so the materials to make a battery is terrible for the environment. This also doesn't help solve the other issues. Nevertheless I do hope for continued progress in this field so it becomes a viable alternative.
A truck with an Auxilary tank can in fact go over 1k miles. Maybe a little more research next time, because they DO exist. Those things can carry 160 gallons of fuel in a pickup truck.
You missed the big advantages of LFP, Dave. They have 2 to 3 times the longevity compared to turnery batteries ( NMC and NCA), LFP prefer to be charged to 100% rather than 80% and they contain no cobalt. Talk about cherry picking facts Dave, your in a league of your own. 😮
The problem isn’t just the batterry it’s the grid. There is no point installing shiny 150kW and 300kW chargers that can only deliver 75kWh or a 60kWh average. Until the drive to stop ratio is better than 9:1 3 hours to 20 minute charge then EVs are not viable a current diesel drive to stop ratio can be as low as 36:1. The last video should have been a triumph for EVs a shiny BMW plugged in to a 150kWh charger should have delivered 230 miles in 20 minutes but it delivered 120-160 miles in 40 minutes. There was no reason for this because the charge site was running at 33% capacity. We can’t even deliver new chargers to charge at the rate of the current technology.
"Not viable?" You know the average daily milage of a car is much less than 130 miles. And that’s the "average" which means the actual milage of the vast majority of cars is much less than that. I think you mean not viable for long distance company reps, who drive every day on time critical journeys.
@@matthewtyler-jones8317 watch the last video with the new chargers charging the BMW. 6 new chargers. 2 in use a BMW ix that can charge at 150kWh charging at an average of 60kWh. The rapid chargers that I have used rarely deliver much more when I have been on trips in an EV. There is a massive difference between advertised charging rates and what the chargers actually deliver. When I say it’s not viable it won’t be viable for those of us that do long journeys or have to use a public charger where home charging is not available. Many homes like my parents have remote of street parking or like my brother in law’s who live’s in a 1930s town terrace where home charging is not viable, both of these family members would have to travel over 12 miles to charge their cars in towns where there is no supermarket charging. So yes rapid charging times iis something that should be regulated and advertised all charging stations should be forced to display the site charging capacity. If it’s a 10 bay site of 300kW chargers the site should advertise if it has a 3MW charging capacity. This would require a 5MVA (enough for 2000 homes) distribution transformer. Also if the charger site can only deliver 70 kWh or less at peak then the charge cost should drop to reflect this poor site performance after all time is money.
@@tobycolin6271 oh I agree there is scope for improvement in the charging network, but I don't think that’s in premium chargers with faster charging speeds. As you say only 65% of household according to the RAC have scope for off street charging. We need more 7-22kw kerbside chargers at reasonable, close to household, prices. I don't think you can legislate for guarantees charging speeds, so many variables.
@@pauls4708Even when the grid is dirtiest re CO2 emissions, EVs are 4x more efficient than ICE. And, yes anywhere is better than densely populated areas where ICE emissions have a significant and damaging impact on human health.
There he goes again, quoting lord knows who, (because I've never heard such a ridiculous claim in hundreds of hours of videos etc from all points of view) saying some 'Ice' cars can do 1000 miles on a full tank. Over-inflating figures to make a false argument, then showing anger for no reason.... pathetic!! Instead of creating and continuing a divide, why doesn't he give out ALL the relevant info on RCV's? But he won't/can't, because it's makes his message far less viable!
They catch fire at a much lower rate than ice cars. The question is, will you accept the facts? "Data from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board shows that there are approximately 25 fires for every 100,000 EVs sold. In comparison, there are approximately 1,530 fires for every 100,000 gas-powered vehicles sold. Similar rates have been found in Norway, Sweden and Australia."
@@hansj5846you're correct but what you don't mention is an EV fire is 100 times harder to extinguish than a petrol fire. Once the battery goes into thermal runaway the only way to control it is with a fire blanket. That doesn't put out the fire it contains it. For anyone trapped inside the car it's certain death.
Thanks
Our average week day trips are around 50 to 80 miles, weekends typically a round trip of 260 miles. All of which is easy to cater for using the Tesla MYLR and home charging although right now we are between homes so we use Tesla supercharging a couple of times a week
My Zoe 50 has just over 200 miles of range. I rarely ever go near 20% and have been all over the country in it, with no problems ❤
Likewise with my MG4. I did 480 miles yesterday - left with 75% and charged twice
@@tonychallinor6721what was the total cost of charging at the two stops.
What was the total time spent charging.
@@Un-Apologetic I’d love to see where you charged. As 480 miles is definitely 2 20 to 80% charges and I’m typically seeing ccs charge rates averages between 60 and 80kWh. 480 miles is an epic drive in the uk 10 hours plus of driving plus to charging stops. With 75 % of charge you probably had to pop in 50 kWh at each stop which may have been outside the optimum charge rate for this Battery. In my EV experience the charge rate over 80% drops to between 10 and 20kWh. On shorter 320 mile journeys I have had to drop in a 15 to 20 minute stop at 140 and 280 miles to get optimised charging and then find a destination charger to charge to 100% for the return.
@@tobycolin6271 - what locations and in which cars are you experiencing these typical charge rates? The charge rate curves of different vehicles vary a fair bit.
@ I’m not going to name models and charge sites I am always worried about these things but I haven’t used Tesla super chargers or cars and all the cars claimed charge rates of 150 kWh and 20 to 80% charge times of less than 30 minutes. That’s why I shortlisted them and took them for test drives. I got similair results to those seen on the BMW in the video. The best I have seen was on a Tesla website where a 50kWh charge was delivered in 30 minutes their may be shorter charge rates but for those of us without of street charging a rapid 40kWh charge is kind of my bench mark.
What I was hoping for is that loads of people would reveal the cars that can charge at a decent rate for a long duration. After trying a few cars I kind of gave up when I saw similair results in the video with chargers with low utilisation I was wondering if it’s the car or the charger installation. At charge rates at 1kW per minute or 60kWh is not convenient for me.
Cheers Dave .
To get around the issue of variable usage pattern I quite like the solution Neo were looking at of battery swapping. You could have a light 20-30 kWh battery in the car most of the time and then when you make that long drive you swap it out for a 80 kWh or larger battery I guess to make that financially viable you would need a lot more than 150 cycles out of the battery.
NMC/ Sodium hybrids is a great idea.
Dave, LFPs gravimetric energy density averages to 150Wh/kg these days for the current generation, and 180 to 220Wh/kg for next-gen LFPs already in production and due be in cars in 2025. Perhaps the most intriguing announcement in the last few months was the Hyundai one of working on a 300Wh/kg LFP battery to be available later in 2025.
CATL's Freevoy battery is specifically designed for range extenders (series-PHEVS), it's optimised (projected to be a 64kWh) battery pack to drive on electric only power for about 250 miles, then up to a further 1,000 miles via a small petrol powered electric generator (not connected to the wheels). The battery is aimed at target markets requiring very long journeys to be made (China, Australia, US, Canada etc.), where charging in remote locations can be challenging. The Lithium-Ion 'buffer' battery element (the battery modules are mixed AB cell designs) is optimised to receive a frequent charge from the petrol generator (as well as when plugged-in), and pass power onto the car's motor, plus shuffle charge to/from the slower charging/discharging Sodium-ion mass energy storage batteries. The Sodium-ion batteries decreasing the overal cost of the pack and increase the electric only range of range extenders, for in city/daily use, at a price point that makes these type of vehicles still economical to purchase (duel fuel-type vehicles are typically more expensive than electric only ones with cheaper LFP batteries). The trade-off is increased battery pack weight, and hence lower electric only range efficiency, although for their intended market the lower electric only range is offset by the presence of a petrol-generator but at the cost of more emissions (when on long trips, typically out of town/cities though).
The Tesla "range extender battery" concept is not in production (yet), was first patented back in 2013 but stil to my knowledge remains an area of active research. The batteries in Tesla cars are a mix of LFP, NCA and NCM chemistries from various battery makers (including CATL, Panasonic, LG Chem and Tesla themselves) actual battery type used varies by model and vehicle production location. The new Tesla 4680 battery is a high Nickel and low Cobalt/Manganese (811 mix) NCM battery, using a dry electrolyte and pure graphite anode, rather than a Li-Metal hybrid anode.
The only thing that is stopping me buying an Ev is I can’t charge at home and the council refuse me to install a cable gully across the pavement and prices for fast charge too expensive, no charge insensitive at supermarkets/ workplace.
That’s got to change. I would be petitioning my MP.
My daughter has the same problem with Redbridge Council in London. Different councils have different policies. Nottinghamshire Council allows you to have a gulley fitted for a fee but Redbridge don’t allow it.
Luckily there are reasonably priced fast chargers just round the corner.
We do need more councils to allow this to happen
@@davesound7188apparently all these charge networks like Gridserve and Osprey are losing money even at 79p & 85p per kWh.
Don't expect any price reductions only price increases.
It won't be long before prices are £1 per kWh. They have been in the past.
I can't charge at home - live in a flat. But I'm 5 years and 2 EVs in and especially now it's less of an issue. Chargers have begun to pop up like Christmas sprouts! I concede costs of public charging are an issue, but I think roughly equates to ICE fuelling. There are some really well priced chargers tho. I tend to charge overnight with Believ and it's a lot cheaper with an account
how do you refuel your ICE car at home.
What a great idea to use 2 different parts of the battery with different chemistries, with a smaller super high density. I rarelydo any trips above 150 miles in one go, so most trips are super easy. Longer trips will require a charge stop but in my experience the last few longer trips had stops around 10 to 12 minutes. I want a longer break on long trips so find it crazy how much quicker the Tesla is at charging than my previous E Niro.
BTW Coffee and donuts sound great!
The Tesla 'hybrid' battery is currently a research area rather than in production or use (Tesla's new 4680 batteries are not based on 'hybrid' technology). The reason some Tesla's will charge more quickly than the Niro is definitely down to battery design but in a different way, the Niro used older low-Nickel NCM batteries whilst some Tesla's use more expensive high-Nickel batteries that have a higher power density and can charge faster. The other reason is the Niro had lower power DC eletronics to charge the battery, which is why the Tesla with LFP batteries also charges faster than the Niro.
The same is true if one compares Kia's Niro with say it's EV3, which has a higher powered batteries and charging electronics than the Niro so charges quicker as well.
@GruffSillyGoat Thanks for posting that explanation. I am fully aware of this information and agree completely with you, alsoseeing the benefit of posting this for information of people new to EV's.
My daughter took a mini EV for her first EV test drive - they even let her take it home for the weekend. A mile and a half later she got a drive train error and the car conked out - with 85 miles on the clock. She had to wait for hours for collection.... Anyway she got an Uber back to the garage next day, and when she told her tale to the Uber driver he started ranting and literally shouting about EVs and E cigarettes being a government conspiracy. Apparently a "scientist " has told the Uber driver that there aren't enough "Lithuanians" (rather than Lithium) in the world to make enough batteries.... Cue images of lots of little eastern European feet peddling inside the batteries a la Pratchett. Why aren't you telling us the truth about the new Lithuanian battery tech Dave?😂
I do think that plenty of diesels can do around 1000 miles if driven gently. But the point stands, you don't need crazy range for most applications. Now that most EVs can go further than most would want to go without a break, we simply top up in those breaks on longer trips.
New battery tech and mixing ideas are great. The 1000 mile tank argument is silly though. ICE never needed this as the 500-600 mile range they have with a 5 minute refill is plenty. EV's are getting there with range and the reason they could do with a bit more is so people can make a 200 mile journey each way and return the car to cheap overnight charging at their homes and not need to stop for half an hour at an expensive DC motorway charger. The best compromise available at the moment is offered by Tesla with their range and supercharger rates.
Indeed - I don't often need 1000 miles range for one trip, but to be able to charge the battery to 80% and do a return trip from my home in the North West to the South Coast, where my mum lives, or to Haywards Heath where I go fairly frequently (probably monthly) would be really useful for me. There would be no need to use public chargers whatsoever.
@@beneliastrains currently the answer could be phev. Do nearly all the driving (comuting) as an EV then just use some petrol for the occasional long trip. Also with the right phev (not a CVT) you can enjoy reving through the gears. But the next problem is luxury car tax as decent ev and phev both are going to cost £2.5k in additional tax. Silly government making this hard for everyone
@@demiquadfpv3333you can pick up a great PHEV for well under £40k.
We have a Citroen C5 Aircross Hybrid PHEV and love it.
We use it 95% on electric motor and charge for 7p per kWh overnight.
It returns around 45-48 mpg when on petrol.
I have a 2.0tdi also so any mega journeys we do in that.
PHEV is the future in my opinion but again only if you can charge at home.
Charging at 79p per kWh would equate to 30p per mile.
@@beneliastrainsI think it’s all about changing our mindset about commuting. Yes it’ll be more inconvenient for some of the time but way more beneficial for most of the time. We need to move away from fossil fuels because despite what all the conspiracy theorists think there is a scientific link towards poor health.
what about gel battery my wife has a power chair and only charge it once a month ?
@6:42 Spare us your bias. In China, PHEV sales are growing at a much faster rate than BEV sales.
I dont think in a lot of cases it's range but ease and time of charging and not everyone has home charging which puts people off.
Not sure that Plug in Hybrids are on their way out. UK market share still 10% and China PHEV sales growing strongly whilst full electric stagnating. Suggest you do an episode on PHEVs and how to use them to their full potential..
They are a stop gap for those EV guys to keep selling cars while they await batteries with better performance and range. Gain some market share from those not fully ready for EVs, while not losing money with a glut of vehicles that some people aren't ready to buy.
@@waynerm002for some they allow enjoying changing gears and the sound and feeling of ice whilst allowing cheap green comuting and the daily work/school runs. Driving is not just A-B for alot of people
@@demiquadfpv3333 I understand, I was one of those people. I was going to trade in my Optima hybrid for an Audi e-tron but, after running the numbers, I traded my Stinger GT2 AWD instead. The Audi discount put it in the range of the next Stinger I was planning on upgrading to, charging at home, cut fueling cost big time. Got a $1K rebate from power company and low rate for charging at home overnight. Range was 222 miles but more like 174-186 miles with the speeds on the highway (not the way I drive, 😅. I didn't get in the hybrid game when the incentives were great, happy I did it with the EV.
Had no gears to row but, still got enough fun from the instant torque, from a stop or at highway speeds. I don't miss the engine sounds, got used to not hearing it all the time in the hybrid and I certainly preferred not having to spend the cash on gas.
Your all missing the big elephant in the room, no ICE manufacturer wants you to get a full EV as they cost them more to make and they don't make as much from servicing them.
Also take a look at VW's 2.0 diesel engine, how old is it, they'd much rather you kept buying their old rubbish than invest in something newer and better. This is one of the main reasons the Chinese were forced into developing their own tech.
Depends what you mean by PHEV.
If you mean PHEV REx/ EREVs then I agree, definitely a big role for those PHEVs.
The range extender is ok for some but not for others like me who does a long range journey every week
Ok for the vast majority then. For those it's not you can buy, for additional cost, a bigger regular battery. LIke most things in life, if you need (or want) something others don't, you pay extra for it.
Surley as range extender based hybrids are designed for those needing to cross large countries with poor infrastructure, offering an extended 1,000 miles range by topping the car up with petrol, whilst at the same time reducing the impact on health as they drive around town (on electric only), then it seems very well apt at supporting someone who regularly travels long distance. It's not clear why you say such a car wouldn't work for you on the basis of needing to regularly drive long range journeys, particular in a car who's range (1,300 miles combined electric and petrol extended) exceeds that of ICE cars on the market.
What's more they'll be cheaper to run than a pure or other type of hybrid-ICE, as the petrol generators run in a more optimal range converting more of the fuel energy to electricity, which the car then uses more efficiently to power the wheels.
Although range extenders are more expensive to buy, maintain and run than a pure-EV, due to being more complex and not as efficient, for those needed regular long journey they are more economical until battery only range increases to the same level or remote infrastructure improves.
@GruffSillyGoat
The range extender is for b.e.v' s for people only needing to travel long distances a couple of times a year with a maximum charging cycles of 150 times
@@kpsmithz - Ah it seems Dave has confused you by pivoting to the Tesla research piece on hybrid battery cells. This still remains a research topic rather than an actual product, one that involves Jeff Dahn (one of the pioneers of Lithium-ion batteries) who partners with Tesla on research. The battery that Dave brought up was one that Tesla patented back in 2013, although the graphics and content Dave used in the video are from Jeff's 2020 research paper, which discusses increasing battery performance by 20% (a high number at the time) by incorporating Lithium metal anode. Since then research and commercialisation has shifted to graphine, silicon and sulphur anode materials that offer higher energy and power densities with longer cycle lifes.
However, I'm referring to actual Freevoy battery system from CATL that is being deployed in range extendeds today, such as the AVATR07 mentioned in the video. This doesn't have the 150 charging cycle limit rather is in the thousands of cycles for the battery (enough to last 20 to 30 years even with daily use). The CATL battery is designed to be coupled with a small electric petrol generator to charge on the go, particulary suited for those travelling long distances across remote areas without charging infrastructure.
Yes but after 150 long journeys you have to replace the entire battery.
Far better to seperate the short and long range into separate modules, and swap out the NMC or shorter life battery modules when needed.
@@John-p7i5g who told you that nonsense?
Technically, Audi had a car capable of well over 1,000 miles, and set the world record for distance travelled on a single tank of petrol in it; however it was an 18.5 UK gallon tank, and the car was driven at a fast idle of around 16 mph on a flat circular circuit - changing driver during the multi-day challenge meant bailing out while the car was moving.
However, even at more realistic speeds, I regularly managed over 800 miles from mine (1983 Audi 100 2.2CD); the year after, they bored the engine out to 2.3 for extra power, and completely fucked up the efficiency, all the way down to an official combined average mpg of 28.
There seem to be lots of new tech battery designs - just over the production horizon; and I wonder if the constant news about them - most of which turn out to be vapourware - is what is stopping some people from taking the plunge?
The latest I heard is "Hyundai solid state batteries in pre-production" (yesterday).
Keep up the good work.
Solid state is the holy grail but the term is already being twisted by manufacturers to mean something else because no one has come close to cracking it yet.
I would be interested in an EV for my next car, but I can't get a smart meter installed to take advantage of cheap overnight charging due to signalling issues (radar from Fylingdales that senses a nuclear attack). The energy companies have promised a solution for years, but delivered zilch!
Two instant options: just Use standard rate at about 25p it’s the cheapest rate you’ll find and equates to 6-8p per mile, half the price of petrol. Or switch to another utility and opt for a smart meter. Let them worry about getting it working but while they do, most offer an interim rate of less than 20p.
I came for the click bait but stayed for the waving 👋 signs.
2:18 and counting......Where TF are they?😮
Later on rest assured the waving 👋 have returned.
BMW’s cleanest and greenest 3 Series ever has just completed a record-breaking journey from the UK to Munich and back - on one tank of fuel.
Filled up at the Channel Tunnel, the new BMW 320d EfficientDynamics Saloon made it to Munich, then as far as Lille on the return leg - a staggering total of 1,013 miles on a single tank of fuel - before needing to be refuelled.
To put it in a UK geographic context, the distance achieved would have meant being able to drive from Land’s End to John O’Groats, and still having 200 miles range left in the tank.
This was 14 years ago.
Please tell the truth.
Who cares! Only a tiny minority need to travel those distances on a regular basis and can’t afford the time to stop.
Wow! that’s exactly my typical daily commute. I must trade in my useless Model S and get one, thanks
@davetakesiton no it's not but at least research the facts before you spout you rubbish.
hi Dave what do you think of macmaster statement about porche saying not to park near you house as can catch fire and the insurance company possible no longer insuring car or house.
due to porches statement
I assume he’s posted copies of multiple insurance companies stating this in writing!
Sadly this misses the problems that an ev still has. These include range, cost and charging times. You suggest that a 200 mile range is comparable to a 1000 mile range doesn't help. Now don't get me wrong if a sustainable battery powered vehicle that charges at about the same speed of a normal vehicle with a range of 4-600 miles (like a normal car) so that I only need to charge the battery beyond say 80% if I need to do a long journey like a normal car while keeping the price of both the energy and replacement of the battery comparable in cost to a normal car. Managing all this while also bringing down the cost to a reasonable level to buy and creating a battery that isn't so harmful to the environment both when made and once the end of life disposal of the battery then this would be potentially worth it. I look forward to seeing the progress but as it stands these are not a reasonable alternative.
I would strongly suggest you hire an EV and go on a road trip yourself before spouting such stereotyped incorrect lies and myths. Or at least talk to one of the million EV drivers in the UK who cope perfectly will and thoroughly enjoy their ownership
@davetakesiton already done. Also my brother in law has a polestar and a close friend has an ev van. I am well aware of how ev vehicles work and although unlikely to see the light of day I even have ideas on ev motorhomes. You see that I am anything but against the idea in principle so instead of insulting me perhaps understand the correct statements I listed above. People are too quick to judge and also insult people who have a counter argument rather than presenting a solution.
Tesla recycle 93% of battery material and so far, over 40,000 Model Y batteries have been made with recycled battery materials.
@@crm114. good for Tesla. I seriously doubt that's consistent with all manufacturers and even so the materials to make a battery is terrible for the environment. This also doesn't help solve the other issues. Nevertheless I do hope for continued progress in this field so it becomes a viable alternative.
@@XueyunLuo-u4yhave you seen the material requirements for petrol and diesel cars! Remember batteries will be recycled, petrol and diesel never will.
A truck with an Auxilary tank can in fact go over 1k miles. Maybe a little more research next time, because they DO exist. Those things can carry 160 gallons of fuel in a pickup truck.
I'm not a Titon :( unless of course you finally talk about political C02, or learn a little from Paul Burges ?
You missed the big advantages of LFP, Dave. They have 2 to 3 times the longevity compared to turnery batteries ( NMC and NCA), LFP prefer to be charged to 100% rather than 80% and they contain no cobalt. Talk about cherry picking facts Dave, your in a league of your own. 😮
'Need to be charged to 100% to maintain state of charge accuracy' and 'prefer to be charged to 100%' aren't the same thing...
The problem isn’t just the batterry it’s the grid. There is no point installing shiny 150kW and 300kW chargers that can only deliver 75kWh or a 60kWh average. Until the drive to stop ratio is better than 9:1 3 hours to 20 minute charge then EVs are not viable a current diesel drive to stop ratio can be as low as 36:1. The last video should have been a triumph for EVs a shiny BMW plugged in to a 150kWh charger should have delivered 230 miles in 20 minutes but it delivered 120-160 miles in 40 minutes. There was no reason for this because the charge site was running at 33% capacity. We can’t even deliver new chargers to charge at the rate of the current technology.
You're out of date re charging speeds.
"Not viable?" You know the average daily milage of a car is much less than 130 miles. And that’s the "average" which means the actual milage of the vast majority of cars is much less than that. I think you mean not viable for long distance company reps, who drive every day on time critical journeys.
@@matthewtyler-jones8317 watch the last video with the new chargers charging the BMW. 6 new chargers. 2 in use a BMW ix that can charge at 150kWh charging at an average of 60kWh. The rapid chargers that I have used rarely deliver much more when I have been on trips in an EV. There is a massive difference between advertised charging rates and what the chargers actually deliver. When I say it’s not viable it won’t be viable for those of us that do long journeys or have to use a public charger where home charging is not available. Many homes like my parents have remote of street parking or like my brother in law’s who live’s in a 1930s town terrace where home charging is not viable, both of these family members would have to travel over 12 miles to charge their cars in towns where there is no supermarket charging. So yes rapid charging times iis something that should be regulated and advertised all charging stations should be forced to display the site charging capacity.
If it’s a 10 bay site of 300kW chargers the site should advertise if it has a 3MW charging capacity. This would require a 5MVA (enough for 2000 homes) distribution transformer.
Also if the charger site can only deliver 70 kWh or less at peak then the charge cost should drop to reflect this poor site performance after all time is money.
@@tobycolin6271 oh I agree there is scope for improvement in the charging network, but I don't think that’s in premium chargers with faster charging speeds. As you say only 65% of household according to the RAC have scope for off street charging. We need more 7-22kw kerbside chargers at reasonable, close to household, prices.
I don't think you can legislate for guarantees charging speeds, so many variables.
@@tobycolin6271it's the same massive difference of what's advertised for the range by manufacturers and what's achievable in the real world.
You live in a very small country so range isn’t that important .
I'm Dave... And I'll push any Chinese crap.
Haha!!
This whole thing is going to sneak up on you, isn't it?
@@robertshinn2165 Let's see what happens. And happy new year. 👍
Hey Mr Propaganda how about this for an idea BUY A ICE CAR NOT MILK FLOATS no battery anxiety
Tried that for 40 years and world never ever go back
Ony dinosaurs buy slow, polluting ice cars
The car is as ugly as sin.
I won't be Intersted in that.
ua-cam.com/video/tisMPZeCHzI/v-deo.html
Some of us don't want to pollute the towns and cities we drive through.
Just pollute some where else eh?
@@pauls4708Even when the grid is dirtiest re CO2 emissions, EVs are 4x more efficient than ICE. And, yes anywhere is better than densely populated areas where ICE emissions have a significant and damaging impact on human health.
@@crm114. so what .I am not disputing that.The claim ws made that no car has gone 1000 miles on a tank.
There he goes again, quoting lord knows who, (because I've never heard such a ridiculous claim in hundreds of hours of videos etc from all points of view) saying some 'Ice' cars can do 1000 miles on a full tank.
Over-inflating figures to make a false argument, then showing anger for no reason.... pathetic!!
Instead of creating and continuing a divide, why doesn't he give out ALL the relevant info on RCV's?
But he won't/can't, because it's makes his message far less viable!
The waffle in these videos makes them unwatchable 🤦♂️
Don't watch them then.
Its not waffle, its relevant info... dont be daft...
Agreed. Inaccurate waffle, and very Tesla bias. I am now unsubscribed after a couple of years following the channel
Iron/Fe batteries are still lithium, aren't they?
I think he's just making stuff up at times.
Ev's catching fire isn't a myth there's too much proof.
ICE fires - there’s too much proof. Like >50,000 in the UK each year.
They catch fire at a much lower rate than ice cars.
The question is, will you accept the facts?
"Data from the U.S. National Transportation Safety Board shows that there are approximately 25 fires for every 100,000 EVs sold. In comparison, there are approximately 1,530 fires for every 100,000 gas-powered vehicles sold. Similar rates have been found in Norway, Sweden and Australia."
@hansj5846 And you swallowed the lies.
@@hansj5846you're correct but what you don't mention is an EV fire is 100 times harder to extinguish than a petrol fire.
Once the battery goes into thermal runaway the only way to control it is with a fire blanket.
That doesn't put out the fire it contains it.
For anyone trapped inside the car it's certain death.
@@jamie-hb8gyNo, you have.