The Death of Plants vs. Zombies (for maximum profit!)

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  • Опубліковано 27 лис 2024

КОМЕНТАРІ • 81

  • @CDD420
    @CDD420 4 місяці тому +42

    2/10 Video, needs more ads

  • @NovaMSM
    @NovaMSM 4 місяці тому +23

    Such a fascinating watch. Absolutely loved the mix of skits and how they reflected the messages present. Awesome work!

  • @DartGS
    @DartGS 3 місяці тому +1

    found you threw the Slim Shady video. i love the editing, and the pacing in your videos is CRAZY GOOD. love your stuff man

  • @WangleLine
    @WangleLine 4 місяці тому +14

    We are so freakin' back!!

  • @Smumbo
    @Smumbo 4 місяці тому +2

    Wow, it's been a little while. Another MML classic. The Lamb Hoot bit had me hootin and hollerin'

  • @LambHoot
    @LambHoot 4 місяці тому +4

    man what a weird era of gaming this was. I remember being on the inside at EA around when popcap was acquired, and the mentality shift that was happening was disheartening.
    Also holy crap I had no idea they’d made insanaquarium too 👀👀👀👀👀👀👀

  • @jwalkrr2710
    @jwalkrr2710 4 місяці тому +1

    really good video, I love the synergy between the themes and the presentation. please let me go to jupiter, I have my placentas ready

  • @ceedox6012
    @ceedox6012 4 місяці тому +14

    I feel like some of the other pvz games were glanced over and ONLY saw as the microtransactions they had. Gw1 and 2 are amazing games, I literally have over 2k hours on gw2 for a reason.
    The argument was basically "loot box = bad" and "making game in popular genre = bad" and that's it. Garden warfare is unlike any other shooter game ive seen, and the pack system isn't really an issue. Coins are easy to get, and almost all of the starting characters are very good. There's definitely issues, but none were really mentioned. Also, the part where you said it borrowed from "better" games was just strange? And that bfn's player base moved to Fortnite?
    Even when it comes to bfn, which is an awful game when it comes to a money grab standpoint, you didn't even really mention it. Pvzh too, great game, kind of scummy microtransactions. The part when you said that its player base was dwindling isn't really correct either. Maybe it is, but what from I've seen, it's still holding up pretty strong even after no updates after 5 years, and Fry Em Up, who is basically the Jesus of this game, has been growing more and more.
    This video was really interesting in the way it focused on the business prospective in a way I never really thought, but what was the point of the garden warfare and pvzh sections if you clearly weren't a fan of either of those games and don't have the context or experience?
    But still, at least you weren't really lying like I've sent other "the downfall of pvz" videos do, and it seems you actually researched well instead of reading off an article (which I've, again, legit seen other do). Editing is great, script is amazing, and the voice-over is wonderful, but again, there is no point of the GW and heroes sections.

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +4

      Hot take: I actually prefer Neighborville to the two GW games and have more hours in it than the others. Garden Warfare 2 also has really bad DRM policy on PC, to the point that I quite literally was not able to successfully capture footage of it for this video. Heroes I want to say I have about 10 hours in: I find it a bit shallow personally, but like that you can play missions as Zombies and Plants and gameplay differs between both.
      I chose not to spend much time on these other games because by that point in the video my main arguments about corporate incentives and IP degredation were sort of already made. I mention this in another comment, and this may be surprising to some, but the societal commentary was the express goal of the video; PvZ acts more like a frame for that commentary. I was never aiming for this to be the definitive breakdown of the whole franchise; that exists elsewhere on the internet already.

  • @Skyehoppers
    @Skyehoppers 4 місяці тому +2

    My mom is very proud of beating all of PvZ2 and I'm now too curious about how much money she spent, but that's too loaded a question to actually ask lmao.
    What a fun video! You're such a sharp writer, very nice to see a long-form video from you again. Those sponsor spots are maybe my favorite video essay bit ever, the Jupiter one especially might have some play as a solo upload, and the way you tied it all together was so satisfying. Alright now back to microtransacting my way through life, forever!!

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому

      @@Skyehoppers Jupiter is uploaded over on LambHoot's second channel!

    • @manachromeYT
      @manachromeYT 4 місяці тому

      You don't need power ups plant leveling or your bank account. You just need to think differently. Like put your sun producers in the front

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +1

      @@Skyehoppers Oh also thanks so much for the kind words! Only had a second for a quick reply when I first responsed. So happy you enjoyed the video!

  • @Lexithepoptart
    @Lexithepoptart Місяць тому +1

    The sponsorships are such well done critique

  • @RoweReviews
    @RoweReviews 4 місяці тому +1

    Great video Matt! Loved the presentation as well. Glad to see you back.

  • @potomax
    @potomax 4 місяці тому +4

    Amazing hour of commentary
    Kind of sad to see this license crumble by the need of profitability but we still have the first game and fans to keep it alive

  • @Louiessss
    @Louiessss 4 місяці тому +14

    It has been 3 minutes since the last video titled "The Death of Plants vs. Zombies" was posted

  • @ORANOID
    @ORANOID 4 місяці тому +7

    Don't mind me, I'm just turning a wrench here. Awesome video, thou

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +2

      @@ORANOID But did you twist the doohickey?

    • @ORANOID
      @ORANOID 4 місяці тому +1

      @@MMLCommentaries I couldn't find it 😭💀. But I'm working on it, hope to figure it out soon.

  • @alejanproh2961
    @alejanproh2961 4 місяці тому +2

    cool video. just a few things I'd like to add (wall of text incoming):
    7:48 tall-nut doesn't do anything to balloon zombie
    31:12 bloomerang only hits 3
    also AKEE (from lost city) has bloomerang's exact stats and also hits 3 zombies, being one of the most redundant plants in the game (only difference between it and bloomerang is AKEE being a lobber, which is mildly relevant against like 4 zombies)
    of course, laser bean powercreeps them both with infinite pierce
    31:29 spring bean is already useless in every world other than pirate seas, and that's by design (at least I hope). a more direct powercreep I'd argue is chard guard, who is by far the best stalling plant due to there being no zombies immune to its aoe knockback. (it essentially renders not only spring bean, but also wallnut and tallnut useless too)
    32:09 that's to be expected in the tower defense genre. as you noted earlier, pvz1 is very easy. the fact that most people can beat the main levels without losing once is a rarity in this genre, with other titles like bloons and kingdom rush being noteworthy for their spikes in difficulty. if pvz1 ever got a sequel, it is natural to assume it'd be harder and start reaching into this trial-and-error territory. of course, like you said, most of the difficulty in pvz2 is artificial stat inflation or zombie spam, designed to corner less experienced players into spending money on power-ups and such.
    35:00 that happened barely a few months after release. the only world to even have the old map style are the first 3 out if 10. this is nitpicky, but to the uninitiated, it sounds like the old map style remained in use a lot longer.
    36:10 I agree with the criticism of the old key system, but this example is bad.
    spring bean and primal pea serve completely different roles (instant-use knockback/instakill, and a constant dps/support plant respectively), making it so that you can just run both without issue.
    another reason why this is a bad example is that spring bean's one and only niche of being able to instakill zombies in pirate seas means he still retains viability in his home world, even if he's useless everywhere else.
    37:25 worth noting that they jumbled up the world order when doing this, ordering them by difficulty instead of release order, which leads to a lot of the problems you already talked about (plant unlock order being all messed up, mainly). of course, if they kept the original order, the difficulty curve would look like a heartbeat monitor, so this was done as a compromise. the sensible thing to do would have been to rework the whole game and its progression from the ground up and rebalance both the plants and the levels, but that would cost way too much and present no short-term profit, so who has time for that?
    44:18 I disagree with this view (art for art's sake absolutely exists), but more importantly, I find it hardly relevant to the topic at hand. you can talk about why the pvz franchise is on its last legs without going on this whole rant about society and competition, and frankly, I'd rather you did. (the patreon bit was funny tho)
    45:45 I'd say CoD is also a big inspiration the GW games, (garden warfare is a pun for modern warfare, after all). overwatch only inspired the third shooter game (which also happened to ditch the GW mantle), likely because GW2 and OW released in the same year, with OW becoming a flagship title for blizzard, while GW2 definitely being a success, but not a breakout one, so the suits over at EA wanted a piece of that pie (this is just conjecture on my part).
    I fail to see how Apex of all games was an inspiration for any of the pvz shooters. 2 of them came out before apex, while the 3rd (bfn) came out a little over half a year after apex. at that point in time, apex was exclusively a battle royale with completely different mechanics that never show up in bfn.
    46:59 no, it happened because BfN sucks. plain and simple. it's very obvious is you simply look at how many people play these games today, now that they all stopped getting updates. BfN sucks for many reasons, such as the removal of many elements that made the previous games so beloved, like all the character variants, or funnily enough the lootboxes you complained about in this video.
    48:58 at this point might as well not mention heroes if you're gonna gloss over it this much. it's obvious you barely played 2 hours for the purpose of having footage for this video, and while I'd appreciate more research, it's definitely the least important entry in the franchise (other than pvz adventures, which you didn't even mention)
    56:51 disagree. PvZ always had the potential to remain a gaming juggernaut for a lot longer. PvZ2 would have worked as a standalone product, akin to its predecessor, and following titles could have functioned the same, with the TD games going the route of the aforementioned bloons or kingdom rush, who are at 6 and 4 (5 soon) entries in their respective series. the shooter games had it all, but some horrible decision making (likely from the top of the chain of command) led to abandoning their own identity in hopes of catching the same lighting that overwatch already caught, and expectedly failing to do so. even heroes had the potential to rise among its contemporaries in the card game market, becoming not just a clone, but a real competitor to hearthstone and the likes. again, terrible decisions were made for it, like card rarity changes, the worst balance changes known to man (this is hyperbolic), and the single worst progression cycle of any game I've ever played (this is sincere).

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +3

      @@alejanproh2961 Hi! Glad you were invested enough in the video to leave such a detailed comment with so much input. It really means a lot!
      While I'm not going to address everything, there is one major point I did want to address which may surprise you: the commentary about society, corporate business practices, etc. is the main reason I made this video.
      I very well could have made a more fact-based, practical documentation of this franchise's downfall like you said but doing that would mean making a video that already exists countless places across this site and elsewhere. My express goal with this piece was to use PvZ as a launching point with which to make a larger commentary on IP degredation, corporate exploitation, and consumerism.
      Perhaps approaching this video through that lens will make some of my editorial decusions, such as glossing over many of the titles after PvZ2, make a bit more sense.
      If you want a massive deep-dive into PvZ from a more comprehensive (and maybe less existential) place, I'd strongly recommend Danerade's video on the subject!
      Again, thrilled you enjoyed the video regardless, just wanted to speak a bit to the reasoning behind it all. Thanks so much!

  • @Jakkalope
    @Jakkalope 4 місяці тому +1

    As someone who missed out on playing PvZ back in the day (I was in high school and thought myself too ~*hardcore*~ for casual games) and has only really gotten into playing it in the past year or so, it was wild going from 1's self-contained and well-paced nature to the absolute bloat of cruft and F2P premium feature creep. It's fun(?) seeing a quick overview of the ways the game has had its guts pulled out and shoved back in; it really helps contextualize the confusing mess that is coming at the game for the first time now.
    I ended up stopping playing 2 for basically the reason that anyone could guess, and that you point out -- the "just huck more zombies at them in an attempt to make you spend money" level design just kind of ends up tanking. And those intrusive ads.
    Speaking of that: what I really wanted to comment to say is that your commercial skits are fantastic, funny, and are thematically on-point; they really take this from "another factual rundown of how the obvious forces ruined a game whose downfall has been talked about quite a lot" to something that has a really fun authorial spark and voice.

  • @ZacFrazier
    @ZacFrazier 4 місяці тому +7

    He did it, he actually did it, I lived to see the MML PVZ video!

  • @Dyedrainn
    @Dyedrainn 4 місяці тому +9

    I feel bad for people that make really good video essays on pvz's death (relevance-wise atleast), even if it's true, there are those who still don't want to believe it's dead and will attack youtubers that do these no matter the effort put in.
    Even after danerade's video on those kind of fans.

    • @oliviax727
      @oliviax727 4 місяці тому +4

      legit it took a few hours and half the comments are "Wow ea bad so original" and "I hate 'death of PvZ' videos" - like DUDE, touch some grass

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +6

      It's nothing new or surprising. I made stuff that was intentionally more provocative and hyperbolic in the past and it did NOT do me any favors lol. If anything, getting those kinds of comments shows me the video's getting some degree of reach, which is nice.
      Thanks for watching!

    • @nazfaz_
      @nazfaz_ 4 місяці тому +2

      people are just tired of being reminded that the franchise they love is "dead" and we don't need more videos to explain about it, its just a topic that has been milked dry already

    • @pea-c
      @pea-c 4 місяці тому +1

      @@Dyedrainn after being slandered for showing this in a discord server
      Yes I have to say I’m tired of these videos
      I don’t want to see them anymore

    • @Rotobagaa
      @Rotobagaa 4 місяці тому

      ​@@oliviax727 wdym "touch some grass", I'm genuinely tired seeing these type of videos that talk about how pvz is dead,is this the only thing we can make an essay about regarding the franchise

  • @snowpeagamingPVZ
    @snowpeagamingPVZ 4 місяці тому

    Even though pvz might be falling down might look down, that's what the fanbase is for we keep it fresh and also keep it alive with our dedication because if you were on pvz from the beginning like me it would be almost impossible to leave that's why the yt'bers are still strong on this amazing franchise.

  • @JacquelineMerritt
    @JacquelineMerritt 4 місяці тому +1

    I know it was a skit, but I would actually buy a DVD of your videos! As much as I love UA-cam, if it ever disappears we will lose so much, and while I can make backups of videos I like on my own, being able to just buy a DVD with a bunch of video essays I like and throw it on my DVD shelf is incredibly appealing! Plus it would put a couple extra bucks in your pocket and that's always rad too :)

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +1

      This is actually a huge point, especially with recent news that MTV News and Comedy Central's old sites are now just... gone.
      In recent years I've taken great care to preserve high-quality versions of my work. I can't speak for all of UA-cam at large of course, especially all of us smaller channels, but if UA-cam were to disappear tomorrow I'd still have the capability to upload my entire catalog elsewhere.
      Who knows, maybe the DVD set will be real one day.

  • @mapleream
    @mapleream 4 місяці тому +2

    i dont know what these ads are telling me to buy but ill buy everything including my local library

  • @MegaDude10
    @MegaDude10 4 місяці тому +4

    Before commenting about how this is another "EA BAD, POPCAP GOOD" video, please watch the whole thing. It talks about how the issue is much more complicated than that.

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +2

      @@MegaDude10 Glad you enjoyed the video!

  • @dylio930
    @dylio930 4 місяці тому

    A really well made video, should have more views!

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому

      @@dylio930 Share it around! Glad you enjoyed it, and thank you so much for the kind words

  • @blazie42069
    @blazie42069 4 місяці тому +1

    To me, plants vs zombies died the moment pvz 3 in its current form came to be
    All the creativity from BFN backwards was gone. Say what you want about pvz2 (before they started milking pvp) heroes, the garden warfare series and battle for neighborville, those games at least had love and passion put into them. Plants Vs Zombies 3 feels generic and soulless and even if it becomes a good game with time, I might not even care at that point and it might be too late for popcap to recover from pvz3’s failure as a soulless game that is currently flopping

    • @manachromeYT
      @manachromeYT 4 місяці тому +1

      Flopping by I believe hundreds of millions of dollars

  • @elimBaz
    @elimBaz 4 місяці тому +2

    Finally someone who doesn't just say braindedly "PVZ3 is bad killed the series lel"

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +3

      @@elimBaz We try and have some nuance over in this corner of the internet!

  • @Hey1mJay
    @Hey1mJay 4 місяці тому +8

    boo

    • @Nota6693
      @Nota6693 4 місяці тому +3

      Hi jay👋

  • @dredp3989
    @dredp3989 4 місяці тому

    Incroyable comme d'habitude

  • @DJ_Wolfy5
    @DJ_Wolfy5 4 місяці тому

    W video. Sorry to see how bad the views are. this was a great video.

  • @evin52707
    @evin52707 4 місяці тому +1

    Holy shit gemcraft mention!!!

  • @DJ_Wolfy5
    @DJ_Wolfy5 4 місяці тому +1

    If you don't like pay to win, just don't use it. The game is still lots of fun f2p.

  • @IAARPOTI
    @IAARPOTI 4 місяці тому +1

    I would love to reimagine the state of pvz game if EA didn't buy pop cap.

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому

      The thing is I'm not so sure it would be too different! EA certainly accelerated a lot of these issues but would PopCap have released PvZ2 on PC back in 2013? Not sure how successful it would have been back then in that capacity. Super interesting to think about

    • @IAARPOTI
      @IAARPOTI 4 місяці тому

      @@MMLCommentaries I think more of original games maybe sequels to their og games. This is like a tale of big cooperation buying small game companies and killing them in the process for the profit.

    • @board-qu9iu
      @board-qu9iu 4 місяці тому +2

      That’s literally what happened with Angry Birds despite the company never being brought out.
      I don’t think Pop Cap regardless would really improve a whole lot

  • @pardeepsandhu9277
    @pardeepsandhu9277 4 місяці тому +1

    2:56 that is not a pogo stick. there is pogo zombie but it is not that one.

  • @IAARPOTI
    @IAARPOTI 4 місяці тому +1

    I wonder if EA game company is dead, can pvz be bought or be revived by the actual good people?

    • @manachromeYT
      @manachromeYT 4 місяці тому

      I mean dice and bioware are also on their last legs. And apex is slowly dying. Although for bioware there is a sliver of hope with the upcoming dragon age game. Dice and popcaps fates are sealed at this point. Probably apex as well.

    • @manachromeYT
      @manachromeYT 4 місяці тому

      About reviving most of the devs no longer do games or straight up passed away.

  • @BoogsNStuff
    @BoogsNStuff 4 місяці тому

    fantastic video, made even better by Planet Jupiter

  • @Jlerpy
    @Jlerpy 4 місяці тому

    SO BRAVE!

  • @xXsillysussyXx
    @xXsillysussyXx 4 місяці тому

    have you seen the minnmax popcap interview? wierd that there’s no mention of that

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому

      @@xXsillysussyXx I did watch that massive project, good call out! Fascinating listen

  • @generalsupremo_
    @generalsupremo_ 4 місяці тому +3

    d-death...?

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +4

      @@generalsupremo_ Maybe perhaps UN-death is a better desciptor?!?
      This franchise will eat your brainz (and your wallet!)

  • @pea-c
    @pea-c 4 місяці тому +1

    1 hour???

  • @Nota6693
    @Nota6693 4 місяці тому +2

    Oh wow a another ea bad popcap good video

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +3

      @@Nota6693 I think you'll be surprised!

    • @Nota6693
      @Nota6693 4 місяці тому +3

      @MMLCommentaries Better hope so not those other downfall of pvz videos

  • @socksygen
    @socksygen 4 місяці тому +1

    hamburger

  • @Nota6693
    @Nota6693 4 місяці тому

    38:13 This map was never in the international version

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  4 місяці тому +2

      Yup! From both what I remember playing the game over the years and my research the flip to more linear world structures came with the Far Future update. Shame we never got it: I vastly prefer the original world structure, personally!

    • @Nota6693
      @Nota6693 4 місяці тому +1

      @@MMLCommentariesNo this is not the unsed international version. That version was used in the chinese version

    • @unweoncualquierant
      @unweoncualquierant 4 місяці тому

      ​@@Nota6693It was actually planned to be in international. It's as easy as to look for Far Future's concept art on the PvZ Wiki.
      The chinese version just used the assets of that worldmap to make a new one, becuase yes, both Far Future maps are different.

  • @TorosAndMakis53
    @TorosAndMakis53 Місяць тому

    Bruh, you can easily beat PvZ2 without paying a penny.

    • @MMLCommentaries
      @MMLCommentaries  2 дні тому

      I recorded all of the PvZ2 footage for this video and I have to disagree. It's not impossible but it's definitely not easy. That Neon Mixtape boss fight took me nearly 5 hours!

    • @TorosAndMakis53
      @TorosAndMakis53 2 дні тому

      @MMLCommentaries Eh, I don't buy it.

  • @nicholasf55555
    @nicholasf55555 4 місяці тому

    It’s not (pick a plant in pvz3 soon)

  • @quaggy3362
    @quaggy3362 4 місяці тому +2

    Really great video! I love how playfuly self aware the ad segments are and you conveyed your message very eligantly and effectively
    I looooove capitalist greed sidlinging artistic passion and creativity for hyper optimized consumerist slop mmmmmmmm yummy in my tummmy mmmmmmmmm