derivative of tetration of x (hyperpower)

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  • Опубліковано 18 сер 2018
  • Derivative of tetration of x, derivative of (x↑↑3), derivative of double up arrows, derivative of tetration of x, Knuth Arrow Notation. This is a hard calculus 1 problem when we differentiate this power tower of x
    T-shirt 👉 teespring.com/derivatives-for...
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    #blackpenredpen #calculus #math #tutorial #college

КОМЕНТАРІ • 887

  • @blackpenredpen
    @blackpenredpen  7 місяців тому +63

    Solve x^x^x=2? Check out here: ua-cam.com/video/ef-TSTg-2sI/v-deo.html

    • @MrAleksander59
      @MrAleksander59 7 місяців тому +4

      What if
      d(3↑↑X)/dx?

    • @scarletevans4474
      @scarletevans4474 6 місяців тому +1

      Professor: "On exam, I will test whether you know mathematical induction"
      Exam: "Find derivative of n-th tetration of x." 🤣🤣

    • @RSpaco
      @RSpaco 6 місяців тому

      sqrt(2)

    • @snekback.
      @snekback. 4 місяці тому

      @@MrAleksander59 The notation would be hard enough already

    • @MrAleksander59
      @MrAleksander59 4 місяці тому

      @@snekback. Yes, but I learned it years ago and well understood. I tried to do something interesting with it so I researched hyper roots and logs, tried to differentiate it. When this video came out I thought: what if the topic will be researched more?

  • @Lagiacrusguy1
    @Lagiacrusguy1 5 років тому +2833

    “i don’t know how to integrate this so don’t ask me”
    we found his kryptonite

    • @ivanrubiomorales2759
      @ivanrubiomorales2759 3 роки тому +14

      Lmaooo

    • @incription
      @incription 3 роки тому +7

      no one even knows what x^^0.5 is iirc, but derivitive of x^^n is.. well.. math.stackexchange.com/questions/617009/finding-the-derivative-of-x-uparrow-uparrow-n

    • @WingedShell82
      @WingedShell82 3 роки тому +6

      @@incription scary

    • @darbyl3872
      @darbyl3872 2 роки тому +11

      Wha...? Well now, I don't feel so dumb.

    • @victory6468
      @victory6468 Рік тому

      it would just be x^(x^(x))+1)/x^x +1) +c

  • @chengzhou8711
    @chengzhou8711 5 років тому +5097

    Now integrate it

    • @robert33232
      @robert33232 5 років тому +152

      No, it's hard!

    • @beevees1636
      @beevees1636 5 років тому +33

      😂😂😂😂😂

    • @andrewolesen8773
      @andrewolesen8773 5 років тому +102

      X^x^x + c

    • @justabunga1
      @justabunga1 5 років тому +204

      If you integrate x^(x^x) (i.e. 3rd tetration of x), then there’s no answer since it’s non-elementary. If you integrate x^3, it would be x^4/4+C.

    • @Dish.Washer
      @Dish.Washer 5 років тому +63

      @@justabunga1 What does elementary mean?

  • @sreekommalapati2032
    @sreekommalapati2032 5 років тому +781

    "Im just gonna put this in the thumbnail to make a little clickbait"
    Transparency

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 років тому +53

      Sree Kommalapati lolllll and then i changed

  • @coldlogiccrusader365
    @coldlogiccrusader365 5 років тому +1081

    IU am 66 yrs old. I earned a MS in Mathematical Physics in 1977. I never heard about Tetration till just now THANK YOU so much!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 років тому +171

      Thank you!!

    • @19midnightsun87
      @19midnightsun87 4 роки тому +18

      Hm, seems like the education back then was pretty shitty if you didn't hear about that. Where did you earn your degree?

    • @samharper5881
      @samharper5881 4 роки тому +404

      @@19midnightsun87 Grow up.

    • @aelfward
      @aelfward 4 роки тому +247

      19midnightsun87 since titration wasn’t coined until the 1980s it would make sense that Cold Logic Crusader would not know it. Heck, no computer of that day could even try to perform the operation.

    • @19midnightsun87
      @19midnightsun87 4 роки тому +15

      Ah, I see! Very interesting. Thank you for the info.

  • @Sid-ix5qr
    @Sid-ix5qr 4 роки тому +1063

    If you'd put d/dx (x³) for my final exam, you'd be my favourite teacher!

    • @user-vp7in7bk7z
      @user-vp7in7bk7z 4 роки тому +85

      If that appears in your final exam i assume you dont need a teacher

    • @suyunbek1399
      @suyunbek1399 7 місяців тому +13

      at least solve it by base principles

    • @abhirupkundu2778
      @abhirupkundu2778 7 місяців тому

      Let me give you one@@user-vp7in7bk7z

    • @jasonzacharias2150
      @jasonzacharias2150 7 місяців тому

      get vaxxed! You need at least 3 or you won't pass the test

    • @Septicemic-Fugue
      @Septicemic-Fugue 7 місяців тому +2

      ​@suyunbek1399 no sir. I will never remember the limits definition of derivatives. Power rule all the way!

  • @helio3928
    @helio3928 5 років тому +390

    X: This isn't even my final form!

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 років тому +67

      Is this a reference to Dragon Ball? Cell's final form or something.

    • @buttsez4419
      @buttsez4419 5 років тому +16

      @@blackpenredpen shaggy

    • @safwanshahriar4108
      @safwanshahriar4108 2 роки тому +4

      @@blackpenredpen Freeza

  • @tbonbt8271
    @tbonbt8271 5 років тому +1800

    For those who'd like to do more research on ⁿa, the notation is called tetration.

    • @dystotera77
      @dystotera77 5 років тому +122

      Also x↑↑↑y = x↑³y is called pentation and other notation to represent it is x [5] y
      x↑ⁿ⁻² y = x [n] y, where n is the number of operation (ex: sum n=1, multiplication n=2, potentiation n=3, tetration n=4, etc).

    • @EduardoHerrera-fr6bd
      @EduardoHerrera-fr6bd 5 років тому +16

      Thanks! I didn't know nothing about this.

    • @Sky11631
      @Sky11631 5 років тому +12

      Hows the thing called you need for g_64?

    • @mathewmcleod9958
      @mathewmcleod9958 5 років тому +1

      ahh interesting, thanks :-)

    • @Sky11631
      @Sky11631 5 років тому +3

      @Connor Gaughan if thats actually the case.. how boring

  • @TurdFurgeson571
    @TurdFurgeson571 5 років тому +191

    Tetration, not to be confused with titration. I wonder how many chemistry students came here looking for curves and then subsequently ran away because of some light mathing. Love the video. Clear and concise. It's clear that your professor chops are strong.

  • @MegaPhester
    @MegaPhester 5 років тому +517

    I found a nice recursive formula for the derivative of x↑↑n by setting y = x↑↑n, taking the log on both sides and doing implicit differentiation:
    d(x↑↑n) = x↑↑n * ( d(x↑↑(n-1)) * log(x) + x↑↑(n-1) / x )

    • @hugoburton5222
      @hugoburton5222 3 роки тому +23

      I'm not sure this is that clean and nice.

    • @1224chrisng
      @1224chrisng 3 роки тому +108

      @@hugoburton5222 well it's recursive, so it probably can't get cleaner than this

    • @DJCray8472
      @DJCray8472 3 роки тому +2

      I think it is simpler ;-) -> d(x↑↑n) = x↑↑n * d(x↑↑[n-1] * ln[x])

    • @DJCray8472
      @DJCray8472 3 роки тому +6

      @ you mean n -> to |R? the question would be, what it would mean......

    • @spiderwings1421
      @spiderwings1421 Рік тому +36

      Now do d/dx(x↑↑x)

  • @heliocentric1756
    @heliocentric1756 5 років тому +195

    "Chen Lu" The Goddess of Derivatives

    • @DiegoMathemagician
      @DiegoMathemagician 5 років тому +11

      Chain rule haha i died

    • @Reydriel
      @Reydriel 5 років тому

      Lmao

    • @sadhlife
      @sadhlife 5 років тому

      LMAO

    • @Mhammerable
      @Mhammerable 5 років тому +5

      Lol I always thought it was "chair rule" because that's how my professor pronounced it. Awesome teacher tho

    • @voidmain7954
      @voidmain7954 3 роки тому +3

      just wait till you see the "prada lu" the mightiest of all!

  • @46pi26
    @46pi26 5 років тому +68

    Good use of the Chen Lu; 70/10

  • @silasrodrigues1446
    @silasrodrigues1446 5 років тому +426

    I have never seen this notation before!

    • @berenjervin
      @berenjervin 5 років тому +7

      You might find this interesting. (Watch 175 and 176).
      It starts off a little "hokey", but does get pretty interesting (and introduces that notation)

    • @kevinm1317
      @kevinm1317 5 років тому +13

      Silas Rodrigues Its very uncommon. Only really used to describe for extremely large numbers, like Graham's numbee

    • @berenjervin
      @berenjervin 5 років тому +4

      Doh, I didnt include a link! Here they are.
      175- ua-cam.com/video/EUvFXd1y1Ho/v-deo.html
      176- ua-cam.com/video/Z8I68E7yZeY/v-deo.html
      Sorry about that.

    • @ytsas45488
      @ytsas45488 5 років тому +13

      By that you mean "I have never seen Numberphile before"?

    • @EduardoHerrera-fr6bd
      @EduardoHerrera-fr6bd 5 років тому +2

      Me too! Today I learned a brand new thing! >:3

  • @valeriebarker2594
    @valeriebarker2594 3 роки тому +78

    For any function f(x)^g(x), the derivative can be found by adding the power rule to the exponent rule. That is to say d/dx (f(x)^g(x)) = f’(x)*g(x)*f(x)^(g(x)-1)+g’(x)*ln(f(x))*f(x)^g(x)

    • @ericmckenny6748
      @ericmckenny6748 2 роки тому +8

      This is a great simplifying formula to show properties in elements in hypercubes :)

    • @gregsouza7564
      @gregsouza7564 Рік тому +1

      This is stolen. You clearly don't know how this is derived. You don't just magically add the formulas together and get this.

    • @valbarker610
      @valbarker610 Рік тому +15

      @@gregsouza7564 I actually proved this in my math class lol it’s not that difficult to derivate f(x)^g(x) and determine this result. In fact if you note that in cases c^a and a^c the constant parts have their half of the equation canceled out due to having a derivative of 0. Therefore the power rule and the exponent rule are both just simplified versions of this general rule

    • @lumina_
      @lumina_ 7 місяців тому +1

      ​@@gregsouza7564 lmao whatt? What do you mean "this is stolen". goofy

    • @maxe624
      @maxe624 6 місяців тому +1

      If you dont derive all math yourself you basically stole it

  • @tylerdwight215
    @tylerdwight215 5 років тому +49

    My mans ADMITTED he was gonna put tetration of x in video for a clickbait. HahAHA

  • @suleem9950
    @suleem9950 5 років тому +21

    You taught me so many things like double factorials, hyperpowers... I never thought such things exist. Well done!

  • @gamingletsplays2518
    @gamingletsplays2518 4 роки тому +19

    It's so amazing to see a (mostly) friendly community of people who like math as much as me (:

  • @timmurski2075
    @timmurski2075 5 років тому +2

    I'm so pleased I can follow these. You are so fun to watch. Thank you for sharing the awesome math

  • @andrewcorrie8936
    @andrewcorrie8936 5 років тому +25

    Love your videos: I haven't studied Maths for a long time, and neither do I teach it, but these make difficult problems so easy to follow.

  • @fmakofmako
    @fmakofmako 5 років тому +19

    I didn't read through the comments so if someone has already posted the derivative then kudos to them.
    The form of the derivative of x^^n for n >=4 is:
    x^^n*x^^n-1*(1/x+x^^n-2*(lnx/x+x^^n-3*(ln^2x/x+x^^n-4*(ln^3x/x+...+x^^2*(ln^(n-3)x/x+ln^(n-2)x+ln^(n-1)x)...)
    You can prove this by induction. The inductive step is shown by the recursion derivative of x^^n = x^^n*(x^^n-1/x+lnx*d/dx(x^^n-1)) and the base case is that the derivative of x^^4 is x^^4*x^^3*(1/x+x^^2*(lnx/x+ln^2x+ln^3x)).
    I put the base case in the same form as my answer to show that it's true because yt comments are hard to format and anyways loads of people in the comments did the x^^4 case.
    Moving on to the induction we have d/dx(x^^n+1)=x^^n+1*x^^n*(1/x+lnx/x^^n*d/dx(x^^n)) from the recursion. Then we plug in the same form from above.
    d/dx(x^^n)=x^^n*x^^n-1*(1/x+x^^n-2*(lnx/x+x^^n-3*(ln^2x/x+x^^n-4*(ln^3x/x+...+x^^2*(ln^(n-3)x/x+ln^(n-2)x+ln^(n-1)x)...)
    Therefore:
    d/dx(x^^n+1)=x^^n+1*x^^n*(1/x+x^^n-1*(lnx/x+x^^n-2*(ln^2x/x+x^^n-3*(ln^3x/x+x^^n-4*(ln^4x/x+...+x^^2*(ln^(n-2)x/x+ln^(n-1)x+ln^(n)x)...))
    Done.

    • @ivanxdxd
      @ivanxdxd 4 роки тому +1

      Recursion? nah. Hold my beer: \frac{d}{dx}{^{n}x} = \frac{1}{x}\sum_{k=1}^n\left ( \ln^{k-1}(x) \prod_{i=0}^k {^{n-i}x}
      ight )

  • @intergalakti176
    @intergalakti176 5 років тому +46

    Hi, I really like your videos and since you used tetration in this one, I would like to ask you a question that's been on my mind for quite some time now, but for which I could not find a solution yet.
    What I realized was the following: If you try to complete the natural numbers with respect to subtraction, which is the inverse operation to multiplication, you get the integers.
    If you complete these with respect to quotients, which are inverse to multiplication, i.e. form the quotient field, you obtain the rational numbers.
    By completing these wrt. roots of polynomials, i.e. wrt. exponentiation, you obtain the algebraic numbers.
    But what if you complete these using tetration, i.e. add superroots, superlogs and other solutions of "tetration equations"? E.g. the superroot of 2, i.e. the number x with x^x=2, seems to not be algebraic, so can you form a field extending the rational numbers that is closed wrt. these operations? It can't be a field extension of finite dimension since it is not algebraic, and it also has to be a field, I think, and it should still be countable so it isn't the real numbers, but I could not figure out much more.
    Also, if you continue this process with pentation and higher order operations (see Knuth's up-arrow notation), you should get other fields extending each other. Since they are a mapping family, you can take the direct limit of those, and get a very big field - are these the whole real numbers? A lot of questions, I know, but I hope someone else already thought about it and figured it out, since it is far beyond my current scope. Anyway, I would be happy about any kind of help.

    • @brodiebie
      @brodiebie 2 роки тому +1

      have you got an answer to this yet?? sounds insane i wanna know

    • @SHPafez
      @SHPafez Рік тому +1

      They should be included in the real numbers, moreover if we keep going towards the higher orders, we could find the transcendental constants (Like π, e) midway through. Or, we might even try to approach infinitation (as in, the infinth order, writing with infinitely many up arrows) and
      1) find certain numbers which can't be written without the inverse infinth order. Or,
      2) already cover up every real number, thus having no real numbers left, furthermore having found a way to cover up the first uncountable infinity. Or,
      3) just get to the transcendental numbers with a clear definition about them.

    • @chess-blundermctrashplay762
      @chess-blundermctrashplay762 Рік тому +1

      New math lore

  • @kruksog
    @kruksog 5 років тому +28

    Hey BPRP. I'm about to graduate with a math degree. I want to tell you, your vids are awesome and I love your pronunciation. Thanks for what you do! You bring me snippets of math I can enjoy when I feel bogged down in technical math i have to learn for a grade (which I'm sure you know can suck the fun out of it). So thanks. Truly.

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  5 років тому +8

      Thank you!! I am glad to hear this!! Best of luck to you in everything you do.

  • @novidsonmychanneljustcomme5753
    @novidsonmychanneljustcomme5753 5 років тому +11

    In the ending result you also could simplify: x^(x^x)*x^x = x^(x^x+x), but this depends on which notation you prefer. ;-)

  • @jamez6398
    @jamez6398 5 років тому +4

    For pentation, you have to use the up arrows, presumably because you run out of upper corners to write in after tetration due to the number of upper corners being 2...

  • @ethanzhu8478
    @ethanzhu8478 5 років тому +8

    So I was just learning multivariable calculus and I realized how much simpler this is if you just use the multi variable chain rule on f(x, x^x) where f(y,z)=y^z

  • @aurithrabarua4698
    @aurithrabarua4698 5 років тому +1

    Loved it!!!
    New notations.
    Thanks Steve.. 😊😊😊

  • @loulephille
    @loulephille 8 місяців тому +1

    the 10 mins I spent here was worthier than my existence

  • @isaquepim4555
    @isaquepim4555 5 років тому +18

    I love learning new notations! #YAY

  • @thompoz7114
    @thompoz7114 5 років тому +11

    Tetration is read as "the nth tetration of a"
    x^^3, x^x^x, "the third tetration of x"

  • @Player_is_I
    @Player_is_I 8 місяців тому

    It can further simplify by bringing the 2 from the natural log of x in front of it then add it to the other one

  • @ihti20
    @ihti20 3 роки тому

    Left-upper index is usually used for bottom-order tetration, for right-order hyperoperators arrow notation is basic. Left hyperoperators are rarely used though so it's specified explicitly in that case.

    • @Xnoob545
      @Xnoob545 8 місяців тому

      I have never heard that

  • @ryansamarakoon8268
    @ryansamarakoon8268 4 роки тому +21

    I think you can also do it with implicit differentiation where you take the natural log on both sides. You'll need to repeat for x^^3 so for x^^2 you'll have:
    x^^2=y
    XLn(X)=ln(y)
    Ln(X)+1=Dy/DX •1/y
    Therefore
    Dy/DX=x^^2(ln(X)+1)

    • @DrunkenHotei
      @DrunkenHotei 7 місяців тому +2

      I think you forgot to divide by x in the second term on the left-hand side of line 3, but yeah I used implicit differentiation and got the right answer, too(as I tend to do first when I don't know how to take a derivative in general)
      Edit: I don't know why I thought you made a mistake in line 3, but it all looks fine upon rereading it.

  • @DonSolaris
    @DonSolaris 5 років тому +138

    Your ball is getting smaller and smaller. 😁😁😁

  • @flamingpaper7751
    @flamingpaper7751 5 років тому +179

    What is i^^i?

    • @DariusMo
      @DariusMo 5 років тому +22

      Flamingpaper e^(-pi/2)

    • @novidsonmychanneljustcomme5753
      @novidsonmychanneljustcomme5753 5 років тому +60

      bl00dwork No, this would be for i^i...

    • @DariusMo
      @DariusMo 5 років тому +7

      novidsonmychannel justcommenting but I thought that ¡^^¡ would be ¡^¡ since i^^^i would be i^i^i

    • @novidsonmychanneljustcomme5753
      @novidsonmychanneljustcomme5753 5 років тому +14

      bl00dwork OK, I read the "^^" as the notation for what bprp introduced in this video, so e.g. x^x^x would be x^^3. But I have no idea myself about what i^^i could mean... I'm not sure if it even makes sense anyway...

    • @philosophersm9005
      @philosophersm9005 5 років тому +8

      By replacing those "i"es with e^(i*pi/2), i^i^i would be e^((i*pi/2)*e^(i*pi/2)^i) :(
      and simplifing this we get e^(i*pi/2 * e^(-pi/2)):-|
      is's still a mess but that's it.
      if you want to expand it with Euler's formula again, it would be much more "complex":-)

  • @Magnetron692
    @Magnetron692 8 місяців тому +1

    Awesome! Thank you!!

  • @lakshaykumarwalia4163
    @lakshaykumarwalia4163 4 роки тому

    really enjoy your style 👍

  • @hbarudi
    @hbarudi 3 роки тому

    You can combine x^x with x^x^x by using the multiplication of exponential expressions adds the exponent rule where (x^x)*(x^x^x)=x^(x+x^x).

  • @vedantneema
    @vedantneema 5 років тому +6

    So, this notation that blackpenredpen just told, I had actually once accidently discovered it myself.
    So, when I did a bit of research on values of x^^a for fractional values of 'a' and found out an elegant relation between x^^(1/2) and Lambert - W function. It is:
    x^^(1/2)=e^(W(x))
    or
    W(x)=ln(x^^(1/2)).
    I am also working on the derivative of x^^a, which is partially answered by Calyo Delphi in one another comment.
    I did some research and thought I should share it here.

    • @fantiscious
      @fantiscious Рік тому +1

      3 years late but I think you might be wrong because e^^x is (as far as I know) an injective function, so if e^^a = e^^b then a = b. But e^^1 by definition equals e, and if you plug in e into your formula {x^^(1/2)=e^(W(x)}, you get e^^(1/2) = e^W(e), which is still e. This however contradicts e^^x being an injective function, since 1/2 ≠ 1, therefore the formula is incorrect

    • @vedantneema
      @vedantneema Рік тому +1

      @@fantiscious yup you're right. i prob miscalculated then or sth. the actual relation was
      (e^x)^^1/2 = e^W(x)
      Proof:
      x = t^t => t = x^^1/2 -- 1.
      x = te^t => t = W(x) -- 2.
      => e^(x) = e^(te^t)
      => e^x = (e^t)^(e^t)
      => e^t = (e^x)^^1/2 = e^(W(x)) (from 1.)
      => (e^x)^^1/2 = e^W(x)

    • @fantiscious
      @fantiscious Рік тому +2

      @@vedantneema Wow thanks for replying early lol. However could there be a misconception from your first line of proof? You see,
      log_x(x^^n) = x^^(n-1)
      => log_x(x^^1) = x^^0
      x^^1 = x ∀ x (by definition)
      => log_x(x^^1) = log_x(x) = 1 = x^^0
      ∴ x^^0 = 1 ∀ x
      But in your 1st line of proof, you imply that x = t^^n => t = x^^(1/n) for all n. This says that 2 = t^^n => t = 2^^(1/n).
      However as n approaches to infinity, t = 2^^(1/n) approaches 2^^0, which from the lemma above shows it approaches 1. This cannot be true though since;
      2 = lim_(n -->∞)(t^^n)
      => 2 = t^t^t^t^...
      => 2 = t^2 (since t^t^t^... appears in itself)
      => t = √2
      This shows that t = √2 and t = 1, but √2 ≠ 1, making a contradiction

    • @vedantneema
      @vedantneema Рік тому

      @@fantiscious "x = t^^n => t = x^^(1/n) for all n". No, I only meant it for when n = 2. Also in your last statement you conclude that t can have two solutions for the given equation, one each is obvious in two different but equivalent forms. That stems from the fact that unlike addition, multiplication or exponentiation; tetration is not monotonic. Refer to the graph of x^x within [0, 2](decreasing in [0, 1] and increasing within [1,2]). The graph of y^y=x (== y = x^^1/2) is equally weird.
      Now the limits within which x^^n is monotonic is something that may be interesting to work out. I speculate it remains the same for n>=1. I'll report back if I find something.

  • @aaronsmith6632
    @aaronsmith6632 3 роки тому

    Thanks, I've always wondered this!

  • @oscarahlke1585
    @oscarahlke1585 4 роки тому

    As always he made it waaaayy longer than it needed to be!

  • @mokoufujiwara4209
    @mokoufujiwara4209 4 роки тому

    For Expert:
    Tetration n times:
    Write it as T(x,n) so that T(x,1) = x, T(x,2) = x^x and so on, write its derivative as T'(x,n)
    Construct a reduction formula, start from n=2, try to solve T'(x,n) for all integers n. (tedious like hell)

  • @floppy8568
    @floppy8568 8 місяців тому +1

    "this 3 is meant to be at the top-left corner"
    it is at the top-left corner

  • @shayanmoosavi9139
    @shayanmoosavi9139 5 років тому

    Wow. I learned a new thing today. Thanks.

  • @RiteshNEVERUNIFORM
    @RiteshNEVERUNIFORM 4 роки тому

    One thing my Maths Sir once told about differentiating x^x is that "first differentiate it as constant^variable then differentiate it as variable^constant and add them that is the derivative of x^x" idk if it works for any tetration

  • @robfrohwein2986
    @robfrohwein2986 5 місяців тому +1

    Very clear explanation... every time i learn something 😀

  • @stealthgamer4620
    @stealthgamer4620 7 місяців тому

    I was also thinking of using substitution and logarithmic differentiation. So solve for x^u, where u= x^x. Use logarithmic differentiation for u first, then after finding u’, use it to find x^u. I think this is long and messy though.

  • @zackm5693
    @zackm5693 5 років тому

    Awesome as always!

  • @phatkin
    @phatkin 4 роки тому +2

    You could also write it in a more "finished" (?) form as:
    d(x↑↑3)/dx = ln(x↑↑6) + ln(x↑↑4)ln(x↑↑3) + (x↑↑3)(x↑↑2)/x

  • @Drekal684
    @Drekal684 5 років тому +4

    Wow, that's really cool! Now I'm curious if it's possible to differentiate n↑↑x.

    • @DoctorT144
      @DoctorT144 4 роки тому

      We would first have to figure out what x^^1.5 would even mean. I've done a lot of research on this and there seems to be no conclusive answer.

  • @Xav87ier
    @Xav87ier 5 років тому +8

    Very interesting. I have following question: how can I calculate the first derivative of the function "a tetrated x" (a is positive)?

    • @DoctorT144
      @DoctorT144 4 роки тому

      We still have no clear way of defining how to even calculate non-integer raised tetration, so good luck with that! I mean what would 2^^1.5 even mean?! I've looked into this quite a bit and there seems to be no conclusive answer.

    • @ryanman0083
      @ryanman0083 6 місяців тому

      @@DoctorT144 Using super Logarithm (inverse of Tetration)
      By definition sLog2 (2^^3) = 3
      NOTE: "sLog" is a notation for super Logarithm. Like how Logarithm cancels the base leaving the exponent ex. Log2 (2^3) = 3 super Logarithm does the same with Tetration leaving the super power.
      We can use super Logarithm to solve non integer super powers since super Logarithm is repeated Logarithm by definition.
      Let's let sLog2 (16) = 3+x
      Where 0 ≤ x < 1 (represents a 0 or decimal)
      sLog2 (2^^3) = sLog2 (2^2^2) => Log2(2^2^2) = 2^2
      => Log2(2^2) = 2
      =>Log2(2) = 1
      At this point we've taken three logs representing our integer part of the solution (given by the fact that the answer is equal to 1). We just take log again for the decimal x (the remainder of 2's that we need.)
      Log2 (1) = 0
      Thus sLog2 (16) = 3+0 = 3
      Well let's look at what happens when we go backwards through the same process to see what happens to the remainder.
      Log2 (Log2 (Log2 (Log2 (16)))) = 0
      Log2 (Log2 (Log2 (16))) = 2^0
      Log2 (Log2 (16)) = 2^2^0
      Log2 (16) = 2^2^2^0
      16 = 2^2^2^2^0 = 2^2^2 = 2^^(3+0)
      The remainder adds an extra '2' to the top of the power tower and the additional 2 is raised to the power of the remainder
      For 0 ≤ x ≤ 1
      By definition sLog a(a^^3+x) => a^a^a^a^x
      By definition of Tetration a^^3+x = a^a^^2+x = a^a^a^^1+x = a^a^a^a^^x
      a^a^a^a^^x = a^a^a^a^x
      a^a^a^^x = a^a^a^x
      a^a^^x = a^a^x
      a^^x = a^x by definition for 0 ≤ x ≤ 1
      2^^1.5 = 2^2^0.5 = 2^√2 ≈ 2.6651441427...

  • @nathansauveur6704
    @nathansauveur6704 5 років тому +142

    Do a vid about integrating e^((x^x)*ln(x)) next please

    • @dolevgo8535
      @dolevgo8535 5 років тому +23

      you can't integrate x^x, so pretty sure you cant integrate x^(x^x)(which is what you asked here)

    • @nathansauveur6704
      @nathansauveur6704 5 років тому +19

      dolev goaz That's no fun.

    • @Apollorion
      @Apollorion 5 років тому +16

      @dolev goaz:
      Since we're talking mathematics here, I sincerely wonder: *"do you have proof for your two claims?"*
      (The claims I mean: 1: "you can't integrate x^x" and 2: "so you can't integrate x^(x^x)" )
      For x>0 both functions (i.e. exp(ln(x)*exp(ln(x))) and exp(ln(x)*exp(ln(x)*exp(ln(x)))) ) are continuous and differentiable, so why wouldn't you be able to integrate them?

    • @wayoftheqway9739
      @wayoftheqway9739 5 років тому +21

      More precisely, their indefinite integrals aren't expressible in terms of elementary functions.

    • @azice6034
      @azice6034 5 років тому

      YES! He can't tease us like that!!

  • @militantpacifist4087
    @militantpacifist4087 Рік тому +2

    Do a video on solving tetration equations please as well as tetration with imaginary numbers and taking the super-root of those numbers.

  • @tjdtn0
    @tjdtn0 6 місяців тому

    어느순간부터 내 알고리즘에떠서 12math처럼 잼게 보고있슴다 ㅋㄴㅋㅋ

  • @89roddy
    @89roddy 5 років тому +2

    I think I have the general formula where I set x↑↑0=1 (Is that right?).
    First a recursion formula:
    d/dx(x↑↑n) = x↑↑n · (d/dx(x↑↑(n-1)) · lnx + x↑↑(n-1) · 1/x)
    After applying that a few times I found a pattern, so here's the formula (I think):
    d/dx(x↑↑n) = 1/x · sum_(k=0 to n-1) of [(lnx)^(n-1-k) · product_(m=k to n) of (x↑↑m)]
    d/dx(x↑↑0) = d/dx(1) = 1/x · sum_(k=0 to -1) of [(lnx)^(-1-k) · product_(m=k to 0) of (x↑↑m)]
    = 1/x · 0
    = 0
    d/dx(x↑↑1) = d/dx(x) = 1/x · sum_(k=0 to 0) of [(lnx)^(-k) · product_(m=k to 1) of (x↑↑m)]
    = 1/x · [(lnx)^(0) · product_(m=0 to 1) of (x↑↑m)]
    = 1/x · x↑↑0 · x↑↑1 = 1/x · 1 · x
    = 1
    d/dx(x↑↑2) = d/dx(x^x) = 1/x · sum_(k=0 to 1) of [(lnx)^(1-k) · product_(m=k to 2) of (x↑↑m)]
    = 1/x · [(lnx)^(1) · product_(m=0 to 2) of (x↑↑m) + (lnx)^(0) · product_(m=1 to 2) of (x↑↑m)]
    = 1/x · [lnx · x↑↑0· x↑↑1 · x↑↑2 + x↑↑1 · x↑↑2]
    = 1/x · [lnx · 1· x· x^x + x · x^x]
    = lnx· x^x + x^x
    = x^x · (lnx+1)
    d/dx(x↑↑3) = d/dx(x^x^x) = 1/x · sum_(k=0 to 2) of [(lnx)^(2-k) · product_(m=k to 3) of (x↑↑m)]
    = 1/x · [(lnx)^(2) · product_(m=0 to 3) of (x↑↑m) + (lnx)^(1) · product_(m=1 to 3) of (x↑↑m) + (lnx)^(0) · product_(m=2 to 3) of (x↑↑m)]
    = 1/x · [ln²x · x↑↑0 · x↑↑1 · x↑↑2 · x↑↑3 + lnx · x↑↑1 · x↑↑2 · x↑↑3 + x↑↑2 · x↑↑3]
    = 1/x · [ln²x · 1 · x · x^x · x^x^x + lnx · x · x^x · x^x^x + x^x · x^x^x]
    = ln²x · x^x · x^x^x + lnx · x^x · x^x^x + x^x · x^x^x · 1/x
    = x^x^x · x^x · (ln²x+lnx+1/x)

  • @ahmadnasser9435
    @ahmadnasser9435 Рік тому

    i can't believe that my friend who have never seen tetration or heard about thought of this concept and wrote it in the same annotation of this and chose to call it superpostion .then he sarted studyng it as a functon and he got some pretty cool stuff .bt he was stuck on a problem.while searching the net for a solution he fond the same concept in the name of tetration and it shook us how similar his invention is to it .

  • @user-jj8kg5ef2t
    @user-jj8kg5ef2t 3 роки тому

    I am very intrigue by tetration and pentation..... please do some videos on the topic. (also integral equation, when there are so many video on differential equation, integral equation is very rare)

  • @abdulkhadarainur4348
    @abdulkhadarainur4348 7 місяців тому

    Please make a video on TREE(x).

  • @MrMatthewliver
    @MrMatthewliver 3 роки тому +17

    I found a quite complicated formula for general integration of tetration functions in wikipedia, here: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_integrals_of_exponential_functions
    It is given as exactly 20th example from the top; the formula involves incomplete gamma function and some parameters (n, m, i, j), but it's still not quite clear to me. I have just subscribed your channel :-) Could you devote some time to this formula in one of your future lectures? I mean, how it has been found and how it can be used In practice? Anything that can make it more familiar and clear?

    • @nishilsheth9076
      @nishilsheth9076 7 місяців тому

      It's cool and all, but the page contains integrals. Can you find one which lists the formula for derivatives?

    • @MrMatthewliver
      @MrMatthewliver 7 місяців тому +2

      @@nishilsheth9076 You know, derivatives can be calculated using quite simple set of a few rules. They include: a formula for derivative of the product (1), derivative of the quotient (2), derivative of a composite function (3), derivative of a power (4), and derivative of an inverse function (5). So here you are:
      (1) [f(x)*g(x)]' = f'(x)*g(x) + g'(x)*f(x), or - more simply, (fg)' = f'g + g'f
      (2) [f(x)/g(x)]' = [f'(x)*g(x) - g'(x)*f(x)] / [g(x)]^2, more simply (f/g)' = (f'g - g'f)/g^2
      (3) when u(x) = f(g(x)), u'(x) = g'(x) * f'(u), for example [ln(sinx)]' = (1/sinx)*(-cosx) etc.
      (4) [f(x)^g(x)]' = [f(x)^g(x)] * {[g'(x) * ln f(x)] + [g(x)/f(x) * f'(x)]}, or more simply:
      (f^g)' = (f^g) * (g'* lnf + g*f'/f ) - which is an applied formula for derivative of a composite function after making an identity transformation: f^g = e^(g*lnf)
      (5) when y=f(x) and x=g(y), g'(y)=1/f'(x).
      For example when x=y^y and y=ssrt(x), (y^y)* (1+lny) = 1/[ssrt(x)]', which yields [ssrt(x)]' = 1/[y^y * (1+ lny)], so:
      when f(x) = ssrt(x), f'(x) = 1/ [x + ln(ssrt(x)], since when y= ssrt(x), y^y = x by definition
      When using these five formulas, we can determine a derivative of any function expressed with a finite formula.

  • @anaunaga5471
    @anaunaga5471 Місяць тому

    The rule is x↑↑n = (x↑↑n) * (d/dx ( x↑↑(n-1) * ln(x) + x↑↑(n-1) *(1/x))
    Thats the best you can do
    its basically the original function multiplied by the product rule of x↑↑(n-1) and ln(x)

  • @shinigamisteve5607
    @shinigamisteve5607 5 років тому

    Well, I’m glad he at least admits that he makes clickbait thumbnails. Didn’t know about that notation, but already knew about tetration. Great vid

  • @acshyamraj8167
    @acshyamraj8167 5 років тому +1

    Differentiation made easier by taking logs of both sides, twice.
    taking y = x^x^x ; logy = x^x logx
    Taking logs of both sides again, log(logy) = log(x^x) + log(logx)
    ie log(logy) = x logx + log(logx)
    Now differaentiating both sides with respect to x,
    (1/logy)(1/y) dy/dx = x(1/x) + logx + (1/logx)(1/x)
    Hence dy/dx = y logy [ 1 + logx + (1/xlogx) ]
    = x^x^x . x^x logx [ 1 + logx + (1/xlogx) ]

  • @MarkGerads
    @MarkGerads 5 років тому

    Hint: myweb.astate.edu/wpaulsen/tetration2.pdf Solving F(z + 1) = b^F(z) in the complex plane William Paulsen and Samuel Cowgill

  • @tzheweitan7963
    @tzheweitan7963 4 роки тому

    Can you set y=x^x^x
    And then take natural log on both sides and use implicit differentiation like
    dy/dx

  • @flavioxy
    @flavioxy 8 місяців тому

    is there a general formula for d/dx ^n x?

  • @adamcanarutto5447
    @adamcanarutto5447 4 роки тому

    What if instead of choosing e and natural logarithm (ln) I would've chose 2 and log in base 2. Would the result be different than the one you showed us, bprp?

  • @enzoys
    @enzoys 10 місяців тому +1

    I would like to know if tetration has properties. like, if it was a x^2 * x^3 right there, you would be able to add the exponents, but it dosn't seem to be the case with tetration

  • @alessandroarmenti5562
    @alessandroarmenti5562 3 роки тому

    (I'm new in calculus so please don't judge me too badly)
    A nice rule for the derivative of n^xcould be d/dx n^x=n^x*(n-1)^x...2^x(ln(x)^(n-1)+ln(x)^(n-2)+ 1/x (ln(x)^(n-3)+ln(x)^(n-4) +...+1)).
    The approach have been to do the derivative for 3^x 4^x and 5^x and I noticed this trend.

  • @alberteinstein3612
    @alberteinstein3612 3 роки тому

    I’ve heard of Knuth’s Arrow Notation and Bower’s Operators but not Tetration Notation...
    Thanks!

  • @vonneumann3592
    @vonneumann3592 5 років тому +3

    Please make videos on mulrivariable calculus

  • @damianbla4469
    @damianbla4469 3 роки тому

    09:58 Using Knuth's arrow notation, "1/x" (another way to write this is of course "x^(-1)") could be written as "x & (-1)" (where the symbol "&" represents the "up arrow" symbol in the Knuth's arrow notation)?

  • @AdilReza
    @AdilReza 5 років тому +3

    Alternatively, you can rewrite the given equation as: ln(ln(y)) = ln(ln(x)) + x*ln(x), and then try differentiating the equation in this form.

  • @boomclan5163
    @boomclan5163 5 років тому +3

    I am ... amazed

  • @CotopaxiAH1968
    @CotopaxiAH1968 7 місяців тому

    I'd like to see the general formula for the derivative of ⁿx :) I can already guess by looking at the case n=3 but such guesses can be flawed sometimes :)

  • @srinidhikabra5317
    @srinidhikabra5317 3 роки тому

    I got the answer... yeah, I watched the video quite late, but I found the answer all on my own, and then watched the rest of the video, I also got the answer to that last question you asked 😄( it might not seem like a big deal, but I am in 10th grade 😅😅😅 ) it was fun doing it... keep posting such videos 👍🏻👍🏻👍🏻

  • @paull2937
    @paull2937 Рік тому +1

    Since multiplying a number by a non-integer number and taking a number to a non-integer power are both possible, is tetrating a number to an non-integer number possible? Is it also possible for the other infinitely many arithmetic operations?

  • @prateekbhurkay9376
    @prateekbhurkay9376 5 років тому

    +blackpenredpen I derived a general term for the derivative of the nth tetration of x. Here is the video I made: ua-cam.com/video/WsMVrSQQ1fg/v-deo.html

  • @chimetimepaprika
    @chimetimepaprika 5 років тому

    I love this! What hyperoperation comes after tetration? Just more up arrows?

    • @awfuldynne
      @awfuldynne 3 роки тому

      I'm not aware of notations for hyperoperators beyond tetration other than the "up arrow notation"- and yes, you do just keep adding arrows to get higher-level hyperoperators-but they do have names. Pentation is the next one up.

  • @samueln2917
    @samueln2917 5 років тому +1

    I'm from Indonesia and i find this interesting!

  • @trathea1340
    @trathea1340 4 роки тому +2

    I was unable to come up with an explicit formula for (d(x↑↑n)/dx), but I was able to come up with a recursive formula (I hope). If someone could tell me if the formula is correct or how to make it explicit, that would be fantastic.
    Formula:
    d(x↑↑n)/dx = (x↑↑n)(ln(x)(d(x↑↑(n-1))/dx)+((x↑↑n)/x))

  • @gaithlame9041
    @gaithlame9041 4 роки тому

    very nice . i hope you can explain how to integrate this term .

  • @papasalt8823
    @papasalt8823 7 місяців тому

    Seems a little overcomplicated no?
    y=x^x^x
    so lny=(x^x)lnx
    and from there on the (route to the) solution should be apparent if you've ever differentiated x^x before.
    is there any reason to not treat this as a basically repeated implicit derivative question?

  • @studyhanyo451
    @studyhanyo451 4 роки тому

    The video link. @7frg
    I discovered HALF EXPONENTIAL FUNCTION and I made a table of the function. This function is important because it has important role on extending tetration to real domain. I know this may be a little irrelevant, but as I am not a professional mathematician, youtube is virtually only way to show what I discovered.
    Sorry for posting irrelevant content and thank you for your interest.

  • @vinayaklahoti
    @vinayaklahoti 3 роки тому

    Solve for this; Cow tied at the corner of a circular field is able to graze 3/4th of the field. What is ratio of length of its rope and radius of the field?

  • @thomaslechner1622
    @thomaslechner1622 6 місяців тому

    Before differentiating, we need a clear understanding of fractional tetration, otherwise it is a discontinuous function, that cannot be differentiated at all, right?

  • @flamingpaper7751
    @flamingpaper7751 5 років тому +2

    Tetration in general needs a complete follow up video

  • @ganster1239
    @ganster1239 5 років тому +1

    Now Dr. Peyam has to make a video about the generalization d/dx(x↑↑a), where a represents any rational number!

  • @anmoljawalia5967
    @anmoljawalia5967 3 роки тому

    Brother u are really a genius !!!💖👏👏👌👑

  • @SeriousApache
    @SeriousApache 5 років тому

    Wait, have you already done d(x^x)/dx in one of your previous video?

  • @sakibafnan4965
    @sakibafnan4965 5 років тому

    there is a formula for diff(x^x),whatever!I really enjoyed your video

  • @JACKeREB3
    @JACKeREB3 5 років тому

    I know it's not about the video, but you have PREEEEETTY good taste in watxhes!! Is that a MVMT??

  • @user-or5ke5yn4w
    @user-or5ke5yn4w 7 місяців тому

    Tetration is the first step to big numbers... The goes pentation, then hexation, then Knut's notation, then Conway's notation, and then the fast-growing hierarchy, which will bring you very far away from what is considered 'normal'.

  • @Rohit-cr9xk
    @Rohit-cr9xk 5 років тому

    You make calculas very easy for us.
    Can you please teach Probability with fun.
    Because it seems very confusing some times.😇😊😊😊😊😊

  • @josephcoon5809
    @josephcoon5809 2 роки тому

    3:00 Is the up arrow supposed to be synonymous with the carat sign?
    So that x^3 is exponentiation and x^^3 is retraction?

  • @lythd
    @lythd 4 роки тому

    I'm just a highschool student so sorry if I'm missing something important.
    Why can't you just take x^x^x and use x^x as an exponent and bring it to the front to get (x^^2)*(x^^3)/(x)?
    I divided by x instead of subtracting one from the power however I believe that is equivalent.

  • @fanamatakecick97
    @fanamatakecick97 7 місяців тому

    I’m curious if there’s a way to simplify x^x * x^x^x
    Would it just be x^(x + x^x)?

  • @moskthinks9801
    @moskthinks9801 5 років тому

    Tetration! Knuth Arrow Notation! #YAY
    Note: We can use a reduction formula for the derivative of x^^n
    d/dx (x^^n) = d/dx (e^((x^^(n-1)ln(x)))) = (x^^n)((x^^(n-1))/x+ln(x) d/dx (x^^(n-1)))
    Or saying
    D(n) = (x^^n)((x^^(n-1))/x+ln(x)*D(n-1)))

  • @maximilianmueller4707
    @maximilianmueller4707 5 років тому

    Can you calculate a General Solutions for nth Derivate of the nth tetration

  • @shokan7178
    @shokan7178 5 років тому

    YAY I finally got something correct!
    Also, for me it was easier to solve via implicit differentiation.

  • @adithyakashyap5845
    @adithyakashyap5845 7 місяців тому

    Why not apply log on both sides and differentiate using chain rule after applying log(x^n) = nlogx?

  • @trentsantoro7300
    @trentsantoro7300 3 роки тому

    So if you had something like d/dx of X double up arrow 4 would it be some like [(X double up arrow 3)(X double up arrow 4)((1/x) + ln(x) + (lnx)^2 +(lnx)^3)] or am I missing something