finally 0^0 approaches 0 (after 6 years!)

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  • Опубліковано 20 гру 2024

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  • @AndDiracisHisProphet
    @AndDiracisHisProphet Рік тому +2360

    man, BPRP always delivers.
    Awesome video, very clever idea and reasoning.

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +295

      Here’s the man!!!! Btw I always remembered that comment and I was like wow finally!!!’

    • @AndDiracisHisProphet
      @AndDiracisHisProphet Рік тому

      @@blackpenredpen I am flattered

    • @opensocietyenjoyer
      @opensocietyenjoyer Рік тому

      it should take you a minute to find a much simpler example:
      f(x) = e^x → 0
      g(x) = x^(-1/2) → 0
      f(x)^g(x) → 0

    • @aashsyed1277
      @aashsyed1277 Рік тому

      i think yoou mean e^-x because e to the x goes to infinity and when x goes to 0 g(x) goes to infinity@@opensocietyenjoyer

    • @hipposhark
      @hipposhark Рік тому +6

      😯😯😯😯

  • @yoav613
    @yoav613 Рік тому +3680

    This limit should appear in wikipedia as "blackpenredpen's limit".

    • @ioangauss
      @ioangauss Рік тому +17

      Oh yeeeeeh

    • @tintiniitk
      @tintiniitk Рік тому +78

      he also used blue pen you know.

    • @farukben
      @farukben Рік тому +88

      @@tintiniitk in the information table: Pens used are black pen, red pen and blue pen (?).

    • @vsyovklyucheno
      @vsyovklyucheno Рік тому +24

      On it!
      (Na, I'm joking. Would be great if someone did it though!)

    • @kevm7815
      @kevm7815 Рік тому +2

      Agree

  • @fabriziosantin6063
    @fabriziosantin6063 Рік тому +892

    The negative sign, e to the infinity is zero, not caring about ln, the ending... so many great tension moments. A big thumb up!

    • @iliqiliev
      @iliqiliev Рік тому +18

      🤣

    • @opensocietyenjoyer
      @opensocietyenjoyer Рік тому

      it should take you a minute to find a much simpler example:
      f(x) = e^x → 0
      g(x) = x^(-1/2) → 0
      f(x)^g(x) → 0

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +39

      Thank u!!!

  • @andrew6341
    @andrew6341 Рік тому +1070

    not enough people talk about how well you manage multiple markers in one hand. The way you cleanly switch between colors is really cool to just watch because the math goes way above my head 😅

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +70

      Thank you!!

    • @philos22
      @philos22 Рік тому +19

      He's like a live printer

    • @majinuub619
      @majinuub619 Рік тому +3

      When you get familiar to using chopsticks, that would be easy.

    • @tupacalypse88
      @tupacalypse88 Рік тому +1

      it's pretty impressive 👍

    • @narudavidkun
      @narudavidkun Рік тому

      He is very proficient in that skill

  • @_Loki__Odinson_
    @_Loki__Odinson_ Рік тому +732

    No joke I was suffocating for those few seconds when he went forward without that negative.
    Just shouting at my laptop to somehow make that negative sign appear out of somewhere. Guess it worked

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +121

      lol thanks!!

    • @60.09
      @60.09 Рік тому +1

      I would bet he would have re recored whole thing lol

    • @sparxumlilo4003
      @sparxumlilo4003 6 місяців тому +2

      Infinity is not a defined number. I think there are flaws in his assumptions.

    • @soundsoflife9549
      @soundsoflife9549 3 місяці тому +1

      @@sparxumlilo4003 Nor is Pi.

  • @Ing_jm_arias-arias
    @Ing_jm_arias-arias Рік тому +1147

    I almost died with the negative sign.

    • @sharpnova2
      @sharpnova2 Рік тому +90

      same. and i had a pretty good idea of what the final form was going to look like and was kind of looking forward to him getting to the end and finding that 0^0 = infinity

    • @dacosta2104
      @dacosta2104 Рік тому +23

      I was stressing a lot 😂😂😂😂

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +112

      I am sorry…

    • @effectz_end
      @effectz_end Рік тому +3

      I was in pain

    • @pighaver
      @pighaver 10 місяців тому +1

      SAME I WAS SO CONFUSED

  • @gheffz
    @gheffz Рік тому +414

    Well done on finding a legitimate form where it does approach zero. *_And it worked!!!_*

    • @opensocietyenjoyer
      @opensocietyenjoyer Рік тому +10

      it's very easy to find a much simpler example:
      f(x) = exp(-x) → 0
      g(x) = x^(-1/2) → 0
      f(x)^g(x) → 0

    • @aguyontheinternet8436
      @aguyontheinternet8436 Рік тому +4

      @@opensocietyenjoyer as x goes to infinity of course

    • @msq7041
      @msq7041 Рік тому

      lim does not commute with this mapping.

    • @ciarangale4738
      @ciarangale4738 Рік тому

      @@opensocietyenjoyer I dont think you understood the exercise at hand.

    • @opensocietyenjoyer
      @opensocietyenjoyer Рік тому

      @@ciarangale4738 i did.

  • @charlescalvin7063
    @charlescalvin7063 Рік тому +132

    So basically, 0^0 approaches 0 when the base approaches 0 much, much quicker than the exponent.

    • @СвободныйМатематик
      @СвободныйМатематик 2 місяці тому

      х^х вообще то к 1 приближается при х->0

    • @renyxadarox
      @renyxadarox Місяць тому +1

      ​@@СвободныйМатематикlim f(x)^g(x) could be any value, when f(x)->0 and g(x)->0

  • @enkiduthewildman
    @enkiduthewildman Рік тому +161

    I'm used to BPRP being clever, and very smooth with proofs. But this is the first time I've seen the man so _aggressively_ math. It's scary but in a comforting way.

  • @Jazz-lo2ir
    @Jazz-lo2ir Рік тому +199

    I love how you can share your findings not just in a random paper published to some journal, but on youtube! It's stuff like this that reminds me how much I love mathematics, and your channel... :D

  • @OrbitalPulsar
    @OrbitalPulsar Рік тому +157

    Im sorry, I'm still not happy with this. Your name is "blackpenredpen", and you did not use a black pen and red pen. Please redo this.

  • @jeremiahtablet
    @jeremiahtablet Рік тому +12

    This will now serve as a great example not only of your example mathematically but of how a subject that can be mundane and boring or disinteresting, such as mathematics and limits and derivation, can become incredibly engaging when given the right individual presenting it. It also, specific to me, will serve as further proof that I'm a nerd, bc I just sat here thrilled watching you do limits and understood every step of it, not knowing about the significance of this concept nor the purpose in the example, but simply loving the mathematical process you went through. This is how I have fun.

  • @levelmake7758
    @levelmake7758 Рік тому +4

    I can’t believe it. I’ve watched the video twice and done the calculations along with the video both times, and the math checks out. I’m both pissed off, and extremely impressed well done. Well done indeed. Have a Merry Christmas, and a wonderful New Year.

  • @MathFromAlphaToOmega
    @MathFromAlphaToOmega Рік тому +583

    This reminds me of one mathematician in the 19th century who used the bizarre notation 0^0^x. He said that when x is positive, 0^x=0, so 0^0^x=0^0=1. When x=0, we get 0^1=0. When x is negative, 0^x is infinite, so 0^0^x=0 again. Therefore, 0^0^x is the function that is 1 when x is positive and 0 when x ≤ 0.
    EDIT: It's true that 0^0 and 0^(negative number) don't make sense mathematically. I'm just repeating Libri's argument here. For more about this, Donald Knuth has an interesting paper called "Two Notes on Notation" that mentions this story.

    • @gonzalomorislara8858
      @gonzalomorislara8858 Рік тому +12

      Based!

    • @laurentmeesseman4286
      @laurentmeesseman4286 Рік тому +39

      The proofs you gave are just red herrings for arbitrarily setting 0^0 = 1 and 0^inf = 0.

    • @yurenchu
      @yurenchu Рік тому +18

      Ah! So in essence we have f(x) = 0^0^x as a mathematical notation for a _step function_ (which is a primitive of the Dirac delta function).

    • @MathFromAlphaToOmega
      @MathFromAlphaToOmega Рік тому +42

      @@laurentmeesseman4286 I'm not claiming those equations are valid - I'm just giving the original rationale for that notation.

    • @ILSCDF
      @ILSCDF Рік тому +6

      ​@@laurentmeesseman42860^0 equaling 1 isn't arbitrary

  • @elisgrahn6768
    @elisgrahn6768 Рік тому +24

    Your smile while revealing key steps throughout the whole video made my day! 😄

  • @lorenzobarbano
    @lorenzobarbano Рік тому +47

    I waited 6 years for this! This is great!!

    • @opensocietyenjoyer
      @opensocietyenjoyer Рік тому

      it should take you a minute to find a much simpler example:
      f(x) = e^x → 0
      g(x) = x^(-1/2) → 0
      f(x)^g(x) → 0

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +1

      Thank you!!

  • @jakeklic
    @jakeklic Рік тому +5

    This has literally helped me better understand limits fundamentally after 12 months doing calc courses combined. A really bad 12 months where i learned a lot about failure, but still! wow!! What a pretty solution

  • @dfhwze
    @dfhwze Рік тому +45

    14:40 that mic drop was epic

    • @fifiwoof1969
      @fifiwoof1969 Рік тому

      SPIKED it like scoring a touchdown.
      DAMN!😮

    • @fifiwoof1969
      @fifiwoof1969 Рік тому

      PEN SLAM! (C) FIFIWOOF 2023 ALL RIGHTS RESERVED

    • @fifiwoof1969
      @fifiwoof1969 Рік тому

      14:45 DAMN!!!!!!
      I'm SO in love with you right now BlackPenRedPen!
      DAMN!!!!!

  • @jaydub6313
    @jaydub6313 Рік тому +167

    I love that in your search for this solution, you were looking for "the biggest zero"

  • @jaybingham3711
    @jaybingham3711 Рік тому +95

    1:10 Admit it. When he started getting emotional, you full-on did that reflexive, empathetic gasp of response at his emotion. I'm still trying to recover. Math is so beautiful. 😭

  • @bobth6095
    @bobth6095 Рік тому +23

    If you read the wikipedia article for 0^0, it gives a bunch of examples for limits of the indeterminate form 0^0, but they all approach different values. For example, lim x to 0+ of (e^(-1/x^2))^x approaches 0, but lim x to 0+ of (e^(-1/x^2))^-x approaches -infinity. The limit lim x to 0+ of (e^(-1/x))^(ax) seems to always approach e^-a, which is not a constant value like 0. So you can't actually find a limit that gives the "correct" value as it approaches 0^0.

    • @Hiltok
      @Hiltok Рік тому +8

      This is another example of the definitional difference between something that approaches zero in the limit and zero itself. Various sums that approach zero in the limit will give various values of the limit of "0^0" while strictly 0^0 remains undefined, so there is no "correct" value to it.
      On the flip side (taking the inverse) of this is the fact that infinity exists outside the real numbers, so various sums approach infinity in the limit but they do not strictly equal infinity.

    • @MH-sf6jz
      @MH-sf6jz Рік тому

      I ways trying stuff out and I got the same result as you do. I wanted to find functions 0

    • @alansmithee419
      @alansmithee419 Рік тому +15

      Yes, that's why it's called an indeterminate form.
      The same is true of others like 1^inf, 0^inf, 0/0, inf/inf etc.
      The answers depend on the limit functions you take to get there. This is what defines an indeterminate form.
      The purpose of this video is not to show that 0^0 equals anything, but rather that it *can* equal 0 if you set the limiting equations up correctly. I do feel like that should've been made clearer in the video.
      Edit: as pointed out below I made a mistake in saying that 0^inf is an indeterminate form

    • @AlbertTheGamer-gk7sn
      @AlbertTheGamer-gk7sn Рік тому +2

      @@alansmithee419 0 to the power of infinity is not indeterminate. However, infinity to the power of 0 is. Also, indeterminate forms yield Aleph-Null as the answer, as we don't know the cardinalities, and also, the answer can be any number in an interval. Indeterminate forms are created because of you are trying to undo an "annihilation" function. An annihilation function yields only one output for all of its inputs, so if an inverse exists, it will have one input but have infinity outputs. However, on any occasion, only one answer can be correct, but because we don't know the cardinalities, all numbers within the interval is vacuously true, as a vacuous truth is defined as if a prerequisite is required to determine the truth or falsity of something, and that prerequisite is not present, we are unsure if it is true, so we will consider it as a vacuously true statement. Therefore, we can consider 0 divided by 0 to be equal to Aleph-Null, with all elements in that set to be vacuously truly equal.

    • @bobth6095
      @bobth6095 Рік тому

      @@alansmithee419 Yes, I was also clarifying that. I think the video was a little misleading, the point is that this a cool limit to solve

  • @sebastianem2405
    @sebastianem2405 Рік тому +116

    This is shocking and fascinating, thank you!

    • @opensocietyenjoyer
      @opensocietyenjoyer Рік тому

      not as shocking if you consider this much simpler and more obvious example:
      f(x) = e^x → 0
      g(x) = x^(-1/2) → 0
      f(x)^g(x) → 0

    • @lolerie
      @lolerie Рік тому

      ​​@@opensocietyenjoyerno, it is shocking this limit form (0^0) is almost always one.

    • @adayah2933
      @adayah2933 Рік тому +1

      @@lolerie Maybe it is shocking to you...
      When (an) is any sequence convergent to 0+, obviously the sequence (an)^(-1/ln(an)) tends to 1/e. It follows that
      - if (bn) is a sequence that goes to 0+ significantly faster than -1/(ln(an)), then (an)^(bn) goes to 1,
      - if it goes to 0+ significantly slower than -1/(ln(an)), then (an)^(bn) goes to 0.
      And obviously the limit can be made equal to anything, it's just a matter of how (bn) compares to (-1/ln(an)).

  • @realthunder6556
    @realthunder6556 Рік тому +117

    This was a must watch. Thank you for reminding me 0^0 is not just almost one

    • @lolerie
      @lolerie Рік тому +1

      This limit form is almost always 1.

    • @angeldude101
      @angeldude101 Рік тому +11

      @@lolerie Keyword: "almost." There's a reason it's considered an indeterminate form.

    • @yurenchu
      @yurenchu Рік тому +6

      @@angeldude101 0^0 is always 1 . But the _limit form_ 0^0 is an indeterminate form.
      Likewise, 1^infinity is always 1 ; but the _limit form_ 1^infinity is an indeterminate form.

    • @Felixr2
      @Felixr2 Рік тому +5

      @@yurenchu 0^0 and 1^ infinity make no sense mathematically unless you're talking about the limit forms. Or would you argue that 0/0 is also always 1?

    • @jenkathefridge3933
      @jenkathefridge3933 Рік тому

      ​@@Felixr2Shouldn't 0^0 be 0 since your basically multiplying 0 by itself?

  • @am32768
    @am32768 Рік тому +1

    lim((1/(e^x))^(1/ln x)) also goes to 0 as x approaches infinity. And lim((1/x)^(1/ln(ln x))) do that too. And so on. Just get some very slow decreasing function for exponent and very fast decreasing one for base.

  • @serae4060
    @serae4060 Рік тому +9

    Limx->inf (sqrt(2x+1)-sqrt(x))=Limx->inf((2x+1-x)/(sqrt(2x+1)+sqrt(x))=Limx->inf((x+1)/(sqrt(2x+1)+sqrt(x))=inf because a linear function grows faster than a sqrt function

  • @reeven1721
    @reeven1721 Рік тому +1

    I don't follow your channel, and I don't even have to do much math in my everyday job or life. But this legit made me miss calculus for the first time in 15 years. How it felt so much like the art of being clever. This is a beautiful proof.

  • @KennethChile
    @KennethChile Рік тому +51

    Saw it on desmos from 10^199 to 10^200, the ln(x) function is decreasing but still far from 0 (0.1631), and the square root function is near to 0. Wow! Thanks!

  • @cparks1000000
    @cparks1000000 Рік тому +1

    Let a=1/2 and x>0. (2x+1)^a-x^a > (2x)^a-x^a = (2^a-1)x^a. Since the right side goes to infinity as x grows, so does the left side.
    Also, a simpler example is the limit at zero of f^g where f(x)=e^(-1/x^4) and g(x)=x^2.

  • @PickleBryne
    @PickleBryne Рік тому +7

    By assigning L := lim(...), it acquires a fixed value (which you hypothesize to be 0). In that case, taking ln(L) is invalid, because ln is not defined at 0.
    On a separate note: have you tried visualizing x^y in 3D space? It might give a visual intuition at least. I'd be curious to see a multi-variable limit calculation of z = x^y, x->0, y->0.

    • @dmytrolyakhovolskyy964
      @dmytrolyakhovolskyy964 Рік тому +1

      Exactly what I was going to write

    • @rajeevram4681
      @rajeevram4681 Рік тому

      This is only a problem in the sense that it highlights the difference between a limit approaching zero and being equal to zero. By setting L :=, he is not saying L is literally ' 'equal to' but that the value of L is assigned the value of the the approachment. Recall, that the definition of a limit doesn't assign a value to the limit. In this case, for all epsilon > 0, there exists a delta > 0 such that ... L < epsilon.

    • @lexyeevee
      @lexyeevee Рік тому +1

      @@rajeevram4681 what? of course limits have values; that's the whole point. otherwise integrals wouldn't have values. the expression on the inside can be said to approach the limit, but the entire point of the lim operator is to evaluate that limit

  • @Psychoy01
    @Psychoy01 Рік тому +1

    14:32 "this right here, it's like the biggest zero.. But! If i have 1/ln of x, that was still not enough. So.. i put another one, and it worked!"
    Great idea, brilliant solution, deserved joy of Eureka, deserved like ❤

  • @Lodekac
    @Lodekac Рік тому +108

    In my country, instead of writing the limit as 𝑥 → 0⁺, we write the limit as 𝑥 ↓ 0 and instead of writing the limit as 𝑥 → 0⁻ , we write the limit as 𝑥 ↑ 0. :)

  • @tobybartels8426
    @tobybartels8426 Рік тому +8

    The usual way to make 0⁰ approach any positive number C (at least the way I usually do it) is to take the limit of (e^(−1/|x|))^(−ln(C)×|x|) as x→0. Maybe this is not a good example in that the expression immediately simplifies to C, so there's no real work in taking the limit, although at least neither the base nor the exponent is constant this way. But of course it doesn't work for C=0.

  • @taokodr
    @taokodr Рік тому +1

    Your enthusiasm earned a subscriber.
    Please don't lose that love and fire for what you do! :)

  • @expchrist
    @expchrist Рік тому +3

    Amaze!

  • @AelejandroGarnacho
    @AelejandroGarnacho Рік тому

    I as a student and long time viewer of your videos am very proud. i followed you with many gmails and you really inspires me thank you

  • @Allicrocogator
    @Allicrocogator Рік тому +4

    I saw the thumbnail and I was filled with rage and confusion. But once I saw your function, I realized I was about to be wrong.
    The big 'oh shit' moment for me was at 11:52. I actually gasped. Very nice function!

  • @killrade4434
    @killrade4434 Рік тому +2

    I was about to call you out but you seen your mistake and corrected. Good job dude. Keep it up.

  • @ABCD-hz5sq
    @ABCD-hz5sq Рік тому +8

    How can you take the natural log of that limit if it equals to 0? Isn't ln(0) undefined? Isnt that a contradiction in your proof? Or am i missing something here?

    • @hapawn
      @hapawn 2 дні тому

      Agree, seems that you start with a non-defined operation (Ln(L) is valid only for L > 0, right?). So if your result is L = 0, you start with a contradiction (it seems).

  • @The_NULL_Gamer444
    @The_NULL_Gamer444 9 місяців тому +2

    We can generally define that 0^0 would be equal to 1 or 0, but in my opinion define that is 1 or 0 is not true. As how can 0 transform to 1 or any other number, if is lower? So it's generally can be defined as it's result: 0^0 = Undefined. (You can't turn 0 to itself if you're powering it to a higher number, so that's why is undefined)

  • @lolerie
    @lolerie Рік тому +254

    Limit form 0^0 is almost always 1. 0^0 is nowadays 1. Very nice example.

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +43

      Thanks.

    • @rafiihsanalfathin9479
      @rafiihsanalfathin9479 Рік тому +1

      Wtf almost always 1? if you take ln both sides and assuming the 0 on the bottom is never negative then lnL=0.ln0=0.-inf=-0.inf, so every 0.inf limit that is not 0 is counter example because e^m /= 1 if m /= 0

    • @lolerie
      @lolerie Рік тому

      @@rafiihsanalfathin9479 that is a theorem. It is almost everywhere 1.

    • @kart338_QK
      @kart338_QK Рік тому +6

      @@rafiihsanalfathin9479​​⁠idk what you’re saying for a lot of the comment, but what the commenter is saying is that most limits that when plugged in give 0^0 are equivalent to 1. If you take a class that involves L’ Hopital’s rule then you will probably notice this. It doesn’t mean that 0^0 is always equal to one, just that it does for many limits

    • @rafiihsanalfathin9479
      @rafiihsanalfathin9479 Рік тому

      @@kart338_QK what im saying is that limit that have the form of 0.∞ but have the value other than 0 counter example of what the commenter said. For example lim x->∞ 1/x . -x = -1 (ik this is crappy example but whatever), we can write -x into ln(e^-x) then we got lim x->∞ ln(e^-x)/x=-1 so lim x->∞ (e^-x)^(1/x)=1/e. In general any limit that have the form 0.∞ with the value other than 0 is a counter

  • @woffe8094
    @woffe8094 Рік тому +2

    Man this was amazing to watch. Idk how u do it but u make math really fun

  • @veggiemush
    @veggiemush Рік тому +7

    That marker switching is pretty slick

  • @mjolnir3309
    @mjolnir3309 Рік тому

    congratulations! i can see how emotional you were, especially at the end.

  • @Honeythief_
    @Honeythief_ Рік тому +28

    The ending was hilarious, i know that feeling 😂

  • @martys9972
    @martys9972 Рік тому +2

    Well done, especially with the stage walk-off at the end (mike drop!). On the one hand, 0^0 can be any non-negative number, so one can say that 0^0 is undefined. On the other hand, 0^0 can be defined to equal 1. This definition makes the most sense, since it removes the discontinuity in functions like x^0.

  • @alexdefoc6919
    @alexdefoc6919 Рік тому +7

    Finally, I can be watch a daily upload!
    Btw I wanna say that you are my hero. Because of you I have found my love for math and am commited to going into theoretical physics. Thank you. ❤

  • @98f5
    @98f5 Рік тому

    0^0(zero raised to the power of zero) is an expression that's a point of contention in mathematics. Here's a brief overview:
    Indeterminate Form: In many contexts, 0^0 is considered an "indeterminate form." This means that its value can't be determined without additional information.
    Discrete Math & Set Theory: If you consider 0^0 as the number of functions from the empty set to the empty set, it equals 1.
    In Some Contexts: For convenience, 0^0 can be defined as 1, especially in combinatorics.
    Calculus: In limits, if you encounter a form that approaches 0^0, it doesn't automatically evaluate to anything specific; you'd use techniques to resolve the limit.
    Exponential Growth: In some cases where context is clear, 0^0 can be interpreted as 1 to make formulas work smoothly.
    Thus, it's essential to approach 0^0 with caution and be aware of the context in which you're working.

  • @0over0
    @0over0 Рік тому +85

    I prefer the argument for 0^0 being 1. Consider f(x) = x^x. f'(x) = x^x (lnx+1). Roughly:
    We examine lim(x→0+) of f(x). We can see that the sign of f' near 0 is < 0:
    Let D (delta) be positive. If D is small enough, ln(D) < -1, ie, ln(x) < -1.
    So ln(x)+1 < 0.Then it's also true that x^x (ln(x)+1) < 0.
    Since f' is negative for small enough D, f(x) is finite increasing as x approaches 0 from the right. And as it does, f(x) gets closer and closer to 1. So f(x) has a definite limit, which, I submit, is 1.

    • @budderman3rd
      @budderman3rd Рік тому +57

      This isn't an agrument its just a limit he found. Limits are never the actual answer to the exact number, so don't worry.

    • @nbvehbectw5640
      @nbvehbectw5640 Рік тому +9

      Why are you examining the function x^x, and not x^y? It's not like base and power should always be equal to each other. Sure, if the only case where you use powers satisfies this, then this argument works. But in most cases this restriction is too strong, so you need to look at function of 2 arguments f(x, y) = x^y.

    • @0over0
      @0over0 Рік тому

      You're right. Approaching 0 in 2 ways is better!@@nbvehbectw5640

    • @commieTerminator
      @commieTerminator Рік тому +20

      Your argument doesn't imply 0^0 *being* 1. It implies *approaching* 1 *if* the function x^x is used

    • @Aerobrake
      @Aerobrake Рік тому +1

      I would love to see a video on this argument!

  • @davidtyler3116
    @davidtyler3116 3 місяці тому

    Amazing - BlackpenRedpen! And Bluepen! Thank you for this!

  • @richyo1000
    @richyo1000 Рік тому +9

    Dude…I really like this, well explained and congratulations on figuring this out! ^_^

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +2

      Thank you!!

    • @opensocietyenjoyer
      @opensocietyenjoyer Рік тому

      it should take you a minute to find a much simpler example:
      f(x) = e^-x → 0
      g(x) = x^(-1/2) → 0
      f(x)^g(x) → 0

    • @MuffinsAPlenty
      @MuffinsAPlenty Рік тому

      @@opensocietyenjoyer That doesn't work. In order for f(x) to approach 0, you need x approaching negative infinity. However, you can't have x approach negative infinity when talking about x^(-1/2).

    • @opensocietyenjoyer
      @opensocietyenjoyer Рік тому

      my bad, i forgot a minus sign: it should be e^-x
      @@MuffinsAPlenty

  • @expchrist
    @expchrist Рік тому +1

    Thanks!

  • @shashe42
    @shashe42 Рік тому +4

    May I suggest purchasing refillable dry erase markers? Perhaps, if I may be so bold, one black and one red? They write much nicer and more consistently. They are cheaper in the long run for someone who uses whiteboards often. They are better for the environment. The nibs are replaceable as well. I got some that are made by Pilot. They're amazing. Edit: I see you used a blue one in there, so go for it! You earned it with this proof.

  • @BlockCheddar
    @BlockCheddar 11 місяців тому +1

    I get the emotional feelings behind this video because learning about some cool math thing that you thought wasn't possible or was really difficult is an emotional experience

  • @HadarSHA256
    @HadarSHA256 Рік тому +14

    i was so angry about the minus sign i almost screamed at you

    • @fifiwoof1969
      @fifiwoof1969 Рік тому

      You must have because I heard you like you were right outside my window!
      DAMN!!!!! ❤

  • @Aerobrake
    @Aerobrake Рік тому

    This is mindblowing, no MINDBREAKING even! Incredible work man!

  • @yarninkenobi6002
    @yarninkenobi6002 Рік тому +10

    Hi, I have a mathematical question. I'd be happy if someone will help me with it. If you use Euler's identity, you can see that e^(iπ) = -1. Now, square both sides to get e^(2iπ) = 1. Now take the natural log on both sides, and 2iπ = 0. And now, divide by 2i to get π = 0. How is this working?

    • @heroponriki518
      @heroponriki518 Рік тому +7

      im not even taking calculus yet but my guess is that ln only takes the principal value of it because with imaginary numbers exp function is cos + isin
      its like how 0 is not the same as 2pi just because they have the same cos value

    • @elquesohombre9931
      @elquesohombre9931 Рік тому +2

      ln(e^2ipi) is not the same ln as ln(1) (I THINK. IM NOT AN EXPERT TAKE THIS WITH A GRAIN OF SALT). ln can be treated as the inverse of e^x when dealing with complex and imaginary values and not a simple log function, so you are not performing the same operation to both sides of the equation I don’t think. Again, this is almost certainly inaccurate somewhere considering I’m not a mathematician.

    • @H1tM4rK3r3D
      @H1tM4rK3r3D Рік тому +10

      Credit to Akiva Weinberger
      "On the complex numbers, the logarithm isn't a function; rather, it's a multifunction (returns multiple values for one argument). This is how e^(2πi)=e^(0)
      doesn't imply 2πi=0 after taking logs; ln(1) is all integer multiples of 2πi"

    • @Мартынов-х3ъ
      @Мартынов-х3ъ Рік тому +1

      In complex world we dont use just ln, we use Ln (starting from the capital letter). They’re quite similar, but Ln produces infinite amount of outputs for one input
      Actually, there are more functions in complex analysis which are analogous to normal ones and they are distinguished by that capital letter

    • @Hiltok
      @Hiltok Рік тому

      Remember that Euler's formula tells us that e^(iθ) = cosθ+i.sinθ.
      So, when we evaluate e^(i2π), we get cos(2π)+i.sin(2π), which gives us 1+0=1.
      But we also have e^(i2kπ) = cos(2kπ)+i.sin(2kπ) =1 for k ϵ Z.
      Because Cosine and SIne are cyclic with period of 2π, any "inverse" of them will not be a function. Recall that invertible functions must be 1-1 and onto.
      So, we can't really have a usual kind of inverse of exponentiation (logarithm) when using complex powers.
      The best you can do is recognize that seeking the inverse of a complex exponential will generate an infinite set of solutions of the form a+i.(b+2kπ) for k ϵ Z and a,b ϵ R.
      As noted by @user-yy7bq1zx8r, this Complex Logarithm is notated using a capital L (Ln or Log).
      Have a look at the Wikipedia article on Complex Logarithm to start digging deeper.
      en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Complex_logarithm

  • @cosimobaldi03
    @cosimobaldi03 Рік тому +2

    since the base function tends to zero like 1/2*sqrtx, you can substitute it, and the limit still works. sto you get (1/2*sqrt x ) ^ 1/ln ln x, which is mostly the same as (1/sqrt x) ^ 1/ln ln x = (1/x) ^ 1/ 2ln ln x, which is similar to (1/x) ^ 1/ln ln x, which still tends to zero as x-> +infinity. You can also write it as x ^ 1/ ln (-ln x), as x -> 0+.
    It's basically the same limit, just in a simplified form!

    • @FineDesignVideos
      @FineDesignVideos Рік тому

      You can even do simpler stuff like (e^-x)^(1/sqrt(x))

  • @klauzwayne4215
    @klauzwayne4215 Рік тому +38

    Hey BPRP =)
    Considering how many people noticed the missing minus symbol, you are obviously doing a great job.
    Your presentation is well organised so it is easy to spot a mistake and your viewers are well enough educated to understand the error.
    Your are awesome and this fake proof looks very convincing :D
    I will have my students try to spot the false assumption ^^

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +22

      Thank you for the nice words! However, I am not sure what you mean by "fake proof". This video isn't about "show 0^0 equals 0", it is about "a limit with the indeterminate form 0^0 being 0". You can also check out my other videos that 0^0->1 and 0^0->e.
      Cheers!! : )

    • @klauzwayne4215
      @klauzwayne4215 Рік тому +2

      @@blackpenredpen The fact that a->0 and b->0 doesn't ensure a^b -> 0^0

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +19

      Interesting and I did not know that. Do you have an example of this? Thanks.

    • @KingOf_B
      @KingOf_B Рік тому +13

      "this fake proof looks very convincing". Oh my. The math community has some bite.

    • @evenanything
      @evenanything Рік тому

      ​@@ZaikaNoSeidoikr

  • @frendlyleaf6187
    @frendlyleaf6187 3 місяці тому +1

    They should definitely show something like this to everyone in calc 2, very good example.

  • @ChadTanker
    @ChadTanker Рік тому +7

    I love how you can tell that he is very proud of this :D

  • @rakeshpaul99
    @rakeshpaul99 Рік тому

    So glad this video popped up in my feed!! Great video with explanations (watching your first video actually)!

  • @blackpenredpen
    @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +118

    That 2017 video: Can 0^0 approach 0?
    ua-cam.com/video/Gcl_9KIdpso/v-deo.html

    • @joeboxter3635
      @joeboxter3635 Рік тому +1

      Why don't you use epsilon-delta proof to show this limit is 0. But this example is very nice. It's necessary, but not sufficient.
      Actually, I take that last sentence back - these are two different functions. And convergence is a property of the function. Even if their behavior seems the same at the point, it does not mean if one converged so will the other.
      You'd have to show that somehow there is an upper and lower bound error that converges to zero. Do this proof. Then if checks out, you might have a claim. But by the time you do that, why not go back to epsilon-delta proof.

    • @enderforces7013
      @enderforces7013 Рік тому

      i have a doubt about the premise of the problem. If x->+inf everything works nice, but 0 as a number can both be reached with a positive limit and with a negative limit. If you plug in -inf in the limits, it doesn't work. I just didn't quite understand this.

    • @yurenchu
      @yurenchu Рік тому +1

      @@enderforces7013 With these particular functions (f(x) = √(x+1) - √x , g(x) = 1/ln(ln(x)) ), we can't reach 0 from the negative side.
      For x

    • @enderforces7013
      @enderforces7013 Рік тому

      @@yurenchu still, wouldn't it mean that the limit isn't defined in R?

    • @yurenchu
      @yurenchu Рік тому

      @@enderforces7013 Which limit? The limit of [f(x)]^g(x) for these particular functions f(x) and g(x) as x goes to +infinity _is_ defined, namely it is 0 . Just as, for example, the limit of (1/2)^x exists for x --> +infinity , even though it doesn't exist for x --> -infinity.
      But you may have a point: can we find functions f(x) and g(x) such that the limit of [f(x)]^g(x) is 0 when f(x) and g(x) simultaneously approach 0 ; not only when f(x) and g(x) approach 0 from the positive side but also when f(x) and g(x) approach 0 from the negative side?
      blackpenredpen, your job is not yet done!

  • @mogstrosity-art
    @mogstrosity-art Рік тому +1

    I'm probably missing a point here, but I think there's a simpler way:
    lim x->infinity of ( (x^(-x))^(1/x) )
    both x^(-x) and 1/x approach 0 as x approaches infinity
    (x^(-x))^(1/x) simplifies to 1/x which is already known to approach 0.

  • @SkydivingSquid
    @SkydivingSquid Рік тому +4

    10:28 I am just curious... did you drop the negative? Shouldn't it be -xlnx ? Since you multiplied by -1 to cancel.. and the cancel would result in -1 in the right numerator.. ?
    EDIT - he fixed it. Thank god.

  • @benthomas9830
    @benthomas9830 Рік тому +1

    great video, I had already started typing you forgot the negative!!! but then as I was about to post you noticed it lol

  • @2hamsi
    @2hamsi Рік тому +6

    What happens with the "-" sign at 9:30 ?

    • @2hamsi
      @2hamsi Рік тому +20

      Oh i should watch the video first😂

  • @gibbogle
    @gibbogle Рік тому +1

    Brilliant! Well done! Using the counter-intuitive lim X -> infinity was the crucial discovery.

  • @jjjannes
    @jjjannes Рік тому +9

    4:58 ln(x) is not defined at x=0, so you can't take the natural logarithm of both sides.

    • @jaycubes
      @jaycubes Рік тому

      maybe he could try abs val?

    • @Ninja20704
      @Ninja20704 Рік тому +3

      The quantities are only approaching 0, not exactly 0. So ln is fine.

    • @jjjannes
      @jjjannes Рік тому +4

      ​​@@Ninja20704No the lim operator returns the value it's approaching to, so lim_(x to 0; x > 0) ln(x) is not equal to ln(lim_(x to 0; x> 0) x)

    • @peppapigmaster9712
      @peppapigmaster9712 Рік тому +2

      this is just the properties of logarithms and it has nothing to do with the value 0. ln(a^b) = bln(a)

    • @lih3391
      @lih3391 Рік тому +1

      @@jjjannesthe limit does actually go to 0 though, albeit very slowly. Could you set L(x)=sq(x+1)-sq(x)..., then do ln on both sides, then take the limit?

  • @alexoxo9008
    @alexoxo9008 Рік тому +1

    I love your enthusiasm man keep up the good work :)

  • @gilalon
    @gilalon Рік тому +10

    A much simpler example is 1/(x^x) to the power of 1/x. (x goes to infinity as in the video).

    • @GoddamnAxl
      @GoddamnAxl Рік тому +2

      Seems legit😂, how did he not see this or are we hallucinating

    • @bot24032
      @bot24032 3 місяці тому

      It's not fun. It all cancels out immediately. The point is to see a limit where it's not immediately obvious that it goes to 0 and yet it does

  • @ScienceCodeCreations
    @ScienceCodeCreations 10 місяців тому

    This limit was fascinating! Great job BPRP!

  • @twrk139
    @twrk139 Рік тому +28

    I'm so glad that after 6 years, 0^0 finally decided to overcome his shyness and approach 0. I hope they will live happily ever after.

    • @boltez6507
      @boltez6507 6 місяців тому

      it was a limit anyways,
      so basically the whole crux of the limit was that a smaller number i.e. base(

  • @Kedatgahbelu12
    @Kedatgahbelu12 Рік тому +1

    I was about to complain he left out the (-1) from what he factored out, until I watched the video to the end. The lesson of today, be patient to the end before posting a comment.
    Over all, awesome video, awesome explanation, some what easy step to follow.😎👍🏽

  • @dilara1028
    @dilara1028 Рік тому +13

    We can only seperate the limit if both limits exist. In this case since lim(lnx) goes to infinity as x goes to infinity, the limit does not exist. So the seperation does not work here. (Or am I missing something?)

    • @legendgames128
      @legendgames128 Рік тому +1

      Doesn't a limit not exist only when the limit can't converge? Like x->infinity for sin(x)?

    • @davidlawrence7937
      @davidlawrence7937 Рік тому +2

      I picked up on that but it still approaches 0 seemingly, just need a slightly more rigorous proof.

    • @dilara1028
      @dilara1028 Рік тому +1

      @@legendgames128 as I know, if a limit does not converge then it is divergent. So still, the limit does not exist.

    • @beginneratstuff
      @beginneratstuff Рік тому

      Yep, this is what I was thinking.

    • @kentgauen
      @kentgauen Рік тому +1

      I was searching for this comment lol all the while thinking “am i missing something”

  • @eknight1364
    @eknight1364 Рік тому

    (e^(-x^2))^(1/x) also works and is quite straightforward, simple examples can be given using exp:
    chose f, g such that
    - lim ( x -> inf) f(x) = inf
    - lim ( x -> inf) g(x) = inf
    - g = o(f)
    then you get (e^(-f(x)))^(1/g(x)) -> 0 as x -> inf

  • @emilegiesler9272
    @emilegiesler9272 5 місяців тому

    Remarkable- g00d explanation of the types of Infinity and corresponding types of zero.

  • @JadenWong
    @JadenWong Рік тому +4

    Absolute genius. Now show 0^0 can approach i

    • @abhirupkundu2778
      @abhirupkundu2778 Рік тому

      Shame on u for copying other's things instead of thinking it urself

  • @comrade_marshal
    @comrade_marshal Рік тому +2

    Having that negative sign return back gave me more relief than actually getting to see a 0⁰ form of limit

  • @fmakofmako
    @fmakofmako Рік тому +12

    Lim of sqrt(2x+1)-sqrt(x) is infinity as x goes to infinity

  • @Geenimetsuri
    @Geenimetsuri 3 місяці тому

    Dude effectively proved that 0^0 is undefined. I bet you can construct limits of 0^0 =
    Big grats!

  • @nevemlaci
    @nevemlaci Рік тому +3

    Okay I'm pretty sure this is incorrect because of one thing.
    lim(f(n)) != f(lim(n))
    But I might be wrong, this is just an iirc.

    • @nateking6629
      @nateking6629 Рік тому

      A legitimate concern! Here's a video I found that explains it: ua-cam.com/video/H2RQC4PxEM0/v-deo.html ("When can we switch the limit and function?" by Mu Prime Math).

  • @Drakonus_
    @Drakonus_ Рік тому +1

    Though I have studied Calculus for 1 semester in the past, this video still left me scratching my head in confusion as to why it works.

  • @frimi8593
    @frimi8593 Рік тому +3

    I’m confused about a certain step, when you take the natural log of both sides of the equation lim … = L, aren’t you presupposing that L is a number?

    • @lexyeevee
      @lexyeevee Рік тому

      it's a minor abuse of notation, but you can do all the same work as e^(ln ...) inside the limit and it comes out exactly the same

  • @pkvidmanback
    @pkvidmanback Рік тому

    just watched the whole thing in awe.. very happy for you man! thumbs up from me :)

  • @ffggddss
    @ffggddss Рік тому +3

    So the problem you faced for so long, and have at last solved, was to find f and g such that the limits as x-> 0⁺ of f(x) and g(x) are both 0, while that of f(x)^g(x) is also 0.
    Congratulations!
    It seems like there should be a simpler solution, but perhaps there isn't.
    Fred

    • @blackpenredpen
      @blackpenredpen  Рік тому +1

      Thank you, Fred. Definitely a satisfying feeling!

    • @ffggddss
      @ffggddss Рік тому +2

      @@blackpenredpen Yes, and rightfully so. Meanwhile, I'm trying my hand at other solutions. BTW, I misstated the problem in my comment. Should have said
      "... limits as x->∞ ..."
      I think they are essentially equivalent, though, by simply replacing the argument of f and g (i.e., x) with its reciprocal, 1/x.

  • @HasanaliHeidari
    @HasanaliHeidari 11 місяців тому

    I looooooove the way that you were explaining. That was so cool. With that negative, I was just dying 😅. And I totally understood your feelings when you finished it.

  • @AltisiaK
    @AltisiaK Рік тому +3

    As a long time viewer since before your channel became so popular, I love to how passionate you were working this out!
    I love exploring exponents of zero myself and was in the middle of writing up an idea for working with exponents equal to or less than zero. I stopped working on it after dropping out of a mathematical physics bachelors degree during the height of covid isolation and my poor mental health. After seeing this video I have to ask, would you be interested in talking to me about it?

  • @danielmilyutin9914
    @danielmilyutin9914 Рік тому

    Obv one can get anything choosing right base or exponent.
    One can even variate only exponent keeping base x.
    I.e. x^(f(x)) with f(x) -> 0 when x -> 0

  • @monkesoldier3002
    @monkesoldier3002 Рік тому +3

    I have no clue who that guy is and my math isn't good enough to understand everything yet but just listening to him makes me like math even more

  • @happywithsugar7394
    @happywithsugar7394 Рік тому +1

    12:02 love the emphatic "i do care about ln" sghsgh

  • @thenarwhalmage
    @thenarwhalmage Рік тому +3

    Even with all the effort you took to get that thing to approach 0 it is worth noting that it is an incredible slow function. It actually has a positive slope until it hits around 50, and after that it just goes down glacially slow. The y value is still at 0.005 when x is at 10^15. That is insane for a function that approaches 0, especially when you consider that that hump only peaks at around 0.143.

  • @blackpenredpen
    @blackpenredpen  3 місяці тому +2

    A cuter 0^0 approaches 0 example: ua-cam.com/video/BThNFV9f-L0/v-deo.html

  • @kwoksir2869
    @kwoksir2869 Рік тому +6

    By using calculator to estimate the limit 0^0:
    0.00000000001^0.00000000001=0.999999999 (very close to 1)
    -0.00000000001^-0.00000000001=-1
    As a result, I suspect limit of x^x (x -> 0) doesn't exist

    • @nickharland9207
      @nickharland9207 Рік тому

      You can't take the limit of x^x as x -> 0^-. (-1/2)^{-1/2} doesn't exist. Neither does x=-1/4, -1/6 and in general -1/2n (and many other values).

  • @hexjusththicamrack5712
    @hexjusththicamrack5712 Рік тому

    In 7:40, I think there's another way. 1÷(sqrt(x+1)-sqrt(x) where sqrt(x+1)-sqrt(x) = sqrt(infinity+1)-sqrt(infinty) and that's sqrt(infinity)-sqrt(infinity) which means it's infinity-infinity and that's infinity which means 1÷infinity which is 0 and the thing we have to multiply with? 0 multiplied by anything is 0 and also divided by anything is 0 which falls out 0.

  • @davidbrisbane7206
    @davidbrisbane7206 Рік тому +11

    The confusing here is that we aren't actually evaluating 0⁰.
    We are evaluating the limit, L, of the function f(x)^[g(x)], where f(x) and g(x) approach 0, as x approaches 0.
    We aren't saying 0⁰ approaches one particular value and based on the choice of f(x) and g(x) the limit L appear to be able to take any value we want it to.

    • @canyoupoop
      @canyoupoop Рік тому +1

      Yes that's what inderminate form means kinda

    • @GCarrot91
      @GCarrot91 Рік тому +4

      It's not confusing at all lol. He literally has "limit" on the title and the whiteboard the whole time...

    • @budderman3rd
      @budderman3rd Рік тому

      Exactly

  • @cmilkau
    @cmilkau Рік тому

    challenge: for every a between 0 and 1, find x,y such that x → 0, y → 0 but x^y → a.
    solution: if x→0, f(x) →0, x^f(x) → 0, set x^y = a + x^f(x). Then y = ln (a + x^f(x))/ln x does the trick. Note that a + x^f(x) > 0 and y = f(x) for a = 0.

  • @HatakeKakashi_07
    @HatakeKakashi_07 Рік тому +5

    Sir i am very weak in maths how i improving in math and start calculas pls sir say something

  • @pratyushgora
    @pratyushgora Рік тому +1

    From now on, this is my favorite limit

  • @karl131058
    @karl131058 Рік тому +12

    In set theory, 0^0 = 1, and no analytic limit can change that! 😇

    • @budderman3rd
      @budderman3rd Рік тому +1

      Doesn't matter for any limit when limits only approaches instead of actual there or adding to.

    • @first_m3m3
      @first_m3m3 Рік тому

      In signals processing, we use 0^0 =1 as well. Otherwise, some important assumptions brake... or that is what I remember, hahaha

  • @rays3761
    @rays3761 Рік тому

    Feels like a blast from the past, years since calculus but this is amazing! Good work!