[TF2] MvM's Worst Change
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- Опубліковано 13 лип 2023
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*As a side note, Dewill's original video on the topic hit the nail on the head, any footage shown was meant to showcase the counterargument, not to slam his points.
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![[TF2] Ranking EVERY Tour in MvM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/fETXDmCBVmI/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Ranking EVERY Tour in MvM](/img/tr.png)
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![[TF2] Dealing With Tanks in MvM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/AVm9TvHwmPM/mqdefault.jpg)
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do you vietnam?
Nuh Uh
I will decline your offer but, I understand you need to make money somehow and sponsorships are basically free money.
No
Oh boy, another trashy mobile chore simulator with abusive MTX that prey on the vulnerable through FOMO.
I'll get right on that.
the only thing that can save mvm is giving the bison a damage upgrade
that would make it destroy tanks, it can hit 3x or more on a tank
yup
Bison now one-shots everything
That actually would be a good buff to the engineers
All they have to do is make the projectile move faster.
As someone who only plays MvM in Boot Camp because I like shooting robots but not paying to shoot robots, the worst thing about this is I can't read my teammate's weapon's names. At least let me see the funny.
I used to do that so much! Shame valve is dum
Good News you can still view them. If you die and are spectating someone you can then inspect their Weapons and see the Name and Description (But not Upgrades). Thats what I usually do when I die lol because seeing what People name their stuff is funny
Buy four tickets, complete all but one missions of a tour and then you can use the last ticket over and over again. You get Mann up lobbies for free
Based.
@@ioncavegrandma9256Nah
Trying to stop MVM toxicity by removing the ability to inspect your teammates is a lot like trying to stop bots by removing the ability for F2Ps to use chat.
Wait a minute.
That's what happens when BAD ACTORS abuse something, all the good whatever's being abused doesn't matter if the public perspective is it being used for nefarious purposes. It's the same shit with the F2P's getting their privileges revoked, bad actors abused them and as a result EVERYONE now has to suffer the punishment.
the only reason i stoped being a f2p is just to use chat
@@cursedhawkins1305still wondering if someone out there is making a hack to allow free to play to use the chat well there's gotta be someone that's done it with all the bots that are going around no way someone wastes money on a bot account
@@rileymiller3154 Given that people SPEND money on cheats... someone throwing some cash to make a bot account not F2P will not surprise me at all.
@@cursedhawkins1305 it's literally just 1 US dollar for a stamp. 1 dollar per bot.
Gotta love the fact that the gibus provision spy is also wearing one of the most expensive cosmetics in the game
what cosmetic?
@@lionobama1397 This one **unzips**
@@numbersstationsarchive194 thought itd be bigger, considering its price
My favorite moment playing MvM was in boot camp, teaching a newbie how to play heavy.
"I feel so powerful." That was their reaction to their results after my guidance. He top scored damage that wave. It was a moment only possible because I could inspect their upgrades.
I can't do that for other new players anymore.
im sorry for your loss
@@teqhchaser lmao
Nice pfp.
Ayo? I’d be down
Xana being left powerless in a machine-based gamemode is quite the irony
I believe valve just saw this taco bot thing and just decided that the sole reason this happens is due to being able to view upgrades while in reality, that was 1 of their 100s of reasons as to why they would kick or mark someone. At this point I'd consider it a lazy patch at a subject they dont yet understand. As an MvM noobie I don't think I can play many fast paced, efficient games anymore unless its a full/almost full party guiding me through or me watching countless videos and reading guides about the gamemode without starting and that just feels like training, not gaming.
tacobot people werre insane, they'd kick you for not falling into THEIR idea of meta... no fun allowed, just meta.
Before the change and even before taco bot (still a while after aussies came out so theoretically there was time for people to chill about it) I remember a lot of players whining about others upgrades and vote kicking them for it. I didn’t play a ton of mvm around that time so I don’t know if that means it was so prevalent it happened all the time or I just had a small sample size.
@@jacehackworth6413 i'm one of those "awesome hightours".
I'd examine someone and kindly mention things like
"firing speed is broken, only put 1pt in it"
"max penetration (heavy) is near worthless unless the map is fairly flat, 1 or 2 pts is fine"
etc.
I'd always give ppl the information to make a good decision; i'd never kick'm just because their upgrades were a lil diff.
Me and my friends got so good at TwoCities that i was able to **GASP!** have fun as a gunslinger engy... they prettymuch only needed my dispenser, so i was free to have fun with revengineering.
I can pyro well, i can spy well, sniper is "good enough". And the "meta" classes, i can freely fall into any of'm... even my medic can get niiiice dps numbers :3 WHILE still being very useful.
In other words... if you're able to do your "job" while also having fun, feel free to fuck around and have fun :D
@@andrewdesalvatore7262 I’ve definitely seen people like yourself, but to me it seemed like it was more often to see people who were really pushy about it. The worst thing is most of the people who were like that didn’t even know what upgrades were actually good so they were rude for no reason. I would still rather it came back. Even if you don’t offer any input on peoples upgrades it’s good to know when they might need help in a fight or if they wouldn’t need any attention at all.
@@jacehackworth6413 A lot of the toxicity back then revolved around upgrades. It was mostly cocky mid tours who would throw a fit if people weren't following the soldier, demo, medic, heavy, engie, scout meta to a T the exact way they wanted it. I saw so many dumbasses kick people for upgrading the scattergun or going sniper (because people back then thought he was useless). Removing upgrade inspection was ridiculous, the main issue with Tacobot/MARI is their use of glitches to destroy lobbies.
Exactly what I feared when I saw that line on the update page on 2021, and yup, happened like so as I expected.
It only made the playing field more polarizing and made people behave more selfish. Wish Valve notice it some day :(
I agree i like seeing funny names
You think Valve will do anything at this point? They're done adding anything new outside of maps, cosmetics, taunts, and unusual effects during the Holiday-Sized Updates now.
You are still alive!!!
Leaving based on tourcount seems a really bad choice. In proportion there are more good high tour players, sure, but there are plenty of exceptional 40- as well, starting wave1 is a gamble that usually worth the time.
I like teaching newer players in MvM because frankly without some help theres no way anybody figures it all out. Especially when half of the upgrades just dont work. I miss inspecting randoms so much because it has become so much more of a pain in the ass to help teach new players now.
Figured out mvm myself, wasn't a fast process, but enjoyable if you ignore raging high tours because apparently this game is a job for them. Honestly like playing with newbies because high tours turn fun gamemode into an optimized conveyor, with new players you don't know how next wave will play out and that's what's fun for me. You would suggest to play bootcamp, but screw you i also enjoy gambling from time to time and like number on virtual medal go up
This change feels like removing alleyways from cities because people keep getting mugged in them.
As a high tour, my recommendation to any low tours would be to ask your team for their advice on upgrades. Most veterans will be happy to help, and asking makes you look like you at least care, which is a major point in your favor.
Never met a veteran in mvm that didn't call me a slur tbh
This is fine but I think it's also on the reaction of veteran players when new players don't immediately want to do what's meta. Like you might be objectively right but that doesn't mean everyone wants to play the objectively strongest thing. Half the enjoyment many people get from TF2 are the goofy items that have unique ways of playing. Not just finding the meta. If I ask "I really like playing X class like this, what upgrade or weapon would be the most fun here?" and the response is "Just pick this upgrade and stand still here for the entire round it's the best way to win" you can probably understand why a lot of people just ignore "advice".
I can play to win without picking the absolute strongest possible combination. You can lose and still enjoy the match, idk if that's happened for you in a long time but it is possible.
@@TheTechDweller I'm not unsympathetic to people who want to find new ways to approach MvM, but MvM is not casual and low-tours that think they can approach it as such are a major reason for the mode's toxic reputation. Unlike in casual, teamwork is critical in MvM, and when you have 5 people that want to work towards a common goal and one person who wants to fart around in the name of their own personal idea of "fun", then that one person is actively harming the rest of the group's enjoyment. Almost every high-tour has seen too many low-tours decide that they want to play Gunslinger Engie, Demoknight, or airblast-spam Pyro in the name of "fun", and it tends to make us wary of low-tours that refuse to follow the meta on principle.
Generally speaking, I would advise someone to stick with the meta for at least their first few tours, so they can learn why it's the meta and develop an understanding as to what their class' role in the group is. Once you understand that, then you can start playing around with your options.
@Alabenson hard to encourage team players when high tour veterans love to insult, demean and be all together cunts to anyone new.
That is how you kill a game mode. Why would I want to get involved if everyone just treats me like shit?
Honestly as someone who started playing MvM recently thanks to your content, I wouldn't know where to start without it and I'd love this feature
Same, I never played before that update and it would be so helpful
1,219 tours in Two Cities, as of this writing. Over the years, I have found coaching new MvM players to be quite satisfying. I must agree, though: not being able to check upgrades has indeed made coaching a lot more difficult. I quite enjoyed this video and your thorough examination of this. Awesome work!
over 3000 games of pressing m1 in the general direction of a horde i will never understand mvm players
Weird but genuine question: How can you people with thousands of tours afford to play that much Mann Up? Isn't that like $3,000 or more?
@@Stump85 its a cycle to be honest, you sell what you get at the end of the mission.
@@Hassan_2603 So like, I sell all the botkillers, then buy more tickets with the ref?
Is that right?
@@Stump85 In my case, I started playing Two Cities when it came out in 2012. 10+ years later, the tours have just added up. ^_^; Just getting 24 tickets or so a month, plus being given tickets by friends frequently as random gifts, or as presents for several Christmas and birthday celebrations. Top that all off with getting quite a bit from duplicate Australiums, as well as valuable Specialized and Professional Killstreak Kits and I have roughly broken even. Suffice to say, my situation is quite rare. In a nutshell: I've just come to really enjoy the game mode and the loot drops have helped offset most of my expenses, so far. That and helping new players excel at this game mode always puts a smile on my face. :)
No Golden Pan, yet. XD I have seen Golden Pans drop in 3 lobbies so far. So close, yet so far! XD One of those Golden Pans went to a 1-tour player who joined the last wave of Hamlet Hostility with less than 200 hours in Team Fortress 2. Poor guy didn't realize what he had. From what I understand, he got sharked. BADLY. X_X
i never thought that this feature getting removed was a bad thing, i have changed my mind.
I haven't. i didn't care either way to begin with
I didn't even know this was a feature, when I discovered it I too, thought it was a bug.
Mvm is the soul reason I still play tf2. No matter how many tours I have it never gets boring.
Do you mean Mvm?
my mom is the reason i still watch anime she likes the anime movies. it's a good bonding with her.
@@user-qb9pf5jo6l wholesome win.
Your mom soul is in TF2 ? Damn that rough buddy.
@@thegrimreaper6787 yes mb
What's worse is that a lot of new players can't even use the game chat; either to defend themselves or to ask for advice.
Fun fact: If you're dead you can still see the weapons that a player is having in his loadout
But not the upgrades, which is the point.
@@Squarcialupi For most weapons upgrades you can. The upgrades show under the weapons stats breakdown part, like you can see if someone has +50% increased damage, 100% more ammo capacity, +2 clip size, reload speed etc etc. If you meant player upgrades then yeah, you can't see those sadly, but those are much easier to understand for new players if they look at the upcoming wave and easy for veterans to recommend a resistance for a specific wave.
@@Meow_meow_meow_meow_ Ah I had forgotten about that. Still circuitous, especially compared to inspect, and while player upgrades are less problematic usually, there are still some stinkers and required mission knowledge. Lotta noobs getting crit resist on no crit rounds, vise versa, and engies getting metal regen over capacity
I will say a small aspect that removing this feature has allowed for is for semi experienced players to actually play off meta. I'm a mid tour myself (around 50~ tours or so) and sometimes I want to do things like play demoknight or damage scout etc etc. In the previous system I would get kicked out before I even got to attempt to prove my worth since people could see my upgrades, but now as long as i preform well in the 1st round people don't care that I'm playing off meta. granted this is a rather niche use can but I just thought it worth mentioning in the conversation
to be faiiiiiir they are some reallll assholes if they are kicking for damage scout...especially given how stupid sodapopper burst blastin can be for literally no cost
thats weird cause damage scout is meta
I think one way they could have did it is if you inspect someone you can give "adviced upgrades" where when the player goes to see their upgrades they can see their teammate's opinions of what to get, if it was to remove an upgrade it would be marked in red and if it was to buy an upgrade by 1 teammate it would be green and if 2 teammates it would be blu ect.
Aka instead of preventing it make it eazier to communicate with it
17:04 Now those uber med kills were smooth af
Yeah, 4 months later, despite having ~100 two cities tours(I deleted my badge 80 tours in due to going all 80 tours without an Australium(now back up to 20something tours, still nothing) and despite being technically a high tour harry myself, there has been so many high tours that still leave at the sight of me having 20 tours. Probably doesn’t help that I party up with friends I try to help out who still have single digit completed tours(yeah, I’m that “rare” non-toxic high tour that actually tries to help out low tours)
2:06 when the ad-break ends
It’s wild how often Valve seems to just shoot themselves in the foot.
@@krowta2062 That's because they don't have the decency to use a pistol, they use the Direct Hit.
@@krowta2062rocket specialist original
A while ago, back when my tour count was around the teens, I loaded into a Rottenburg game with a group of new players, pretty much all of whom had 1 or no tours. When they saw my somewhat higher tour count they asked me for advice and tips.
I switched to Heatmaker/Carbine/Bushwacka Sniper so I could deal with the touchy threats (aka uber meds) and proceeded to give each one tips for the class they were playing.
Where the engie should place his buildings, where Heavy should stand, minigun to use (and that his minigun was little use against tanks), that Medic should use the Kritzkrieg and how to use his shield, the best rocket launcher and banner for Soldier, the best flamethrower for tank-busting (and that I could help Pyro out with that as Sniper), and that Scout's primary purpose was money collection.
We lost once or twice due to giant scouts, but I simply said that it was fine and to watch out for them next time. Otherwise that mission went way better than I expected, and overall it was pretty fun to coach newer players like that.
in the future, don't teach people that scout is a money collector, teach them that he's mostly a strong damage class and can do very well if he's good, and that he will naturally collect most of the money if he just fights the robots instead of running around looking for the 2 dollars located in nowhere new jersey.
22 tour here, I watched just about every singly Weezy video before I even touched MVM and I found that I have yet to be kicked, and so far I haven't seen a lot of toxic high tours. Most 100-200 tours either try to get the mission done, or try to help lower tour players. If low tours know what they should be doing, they can learn a lot better. I think Valve should definitely revert this specific change as it could help low tours a lot more.
While I agree that overall having the inspect removed can negatively affect the game mode overall, I will have to respectfully disagree with one point in this video. The whole "95% of high tours used the inspect to help/coach." I by no means am a low tour at 64 on two cities and a combined 94 tours across all 5 missions (I would be higher but I gave up playing mvm between various factors I will mention later), however from all those games I have played one factor sticks out more than anything else that being that high tours using it to shit on low tours for: upgrade choices, class selection or hell even weapon selection. High tours harassing low tours or anyone they deem "below them" is the norm NOT the exception, full stop. The exception from my experience is finding those few nice people willing to actually try to teach people some things in a nice way which does not sound like a demand to try to help them learn and improve. They are by 100% far and few between over the years and usually they tend to be one of the nicer people to play with overall. (The next best to play with would be people who just don't care about interacting, don't talk at all and just play the game regardless.)
I get the overall negative aspects of not having the inspect and how that leaves the high tours with not much to work with in terms of gut checks, but I feel they should honestly just give games a chance instead of just jumping right to a generic check to see if they should leave or not. We have a lot bigger problems with mvm overall, those being: the whole upgrade panel closing (which thankfully was supposedly patched with new update, have to check the veracity of that claim later), bots getting stuck on maps, people doing trolling overall, the whole toxic user base with those people (you know who I mean) being around, and lack of overall quality of life improvements to the game mode overall. All of these issues, along with seeing various people just lay into other low tours and the horrid wait times to find a game is why I left MvM. In the end, the game mode is just no longer worth it to me unless these issues are solved. Why put up with it, when I can go play on community based events like potato MvM which host custom tours which are not only more fun than base MvM, but also still give you something for your time. (Even if it is only a cosmetic badge for completing the missions, it's still something compared to playing boot camp and getting nothing.)
Long story short here, let's not kid ourselves. A lot needs to happen to make this game mode live up to the potential it had back at it's conception and back during the two cities update. It has only rolled back down the hill and like Sisyphus I feel trying to move that bolder back up is a pointless task unless the obstacles are first dealt with.
I reckon they should add it back. Despite high tours being toxic and all that, there are some cases where it can be used to help out newer players by recommending upgrades instead of harassment
Am I glad that I’ve been blessed with a Weezy video at 1:58AM: Yes
Why am I laying in my bed refreshing my recommended page at 1:58AM: Please don’t ask
Insomnia is one hell of a drug
Don't tempt me I might just ask
Truly a money making camp moment
@12:37
Given how much better people with 2+ tours are on that chart compared to 0-1 tours, one way to go about this would be to do a few tours with friends first.
Losing waves through trial-&-error becomes an infinitely sweeter prospect with friends than with randoms, and so is giving and taking advice between each other, especially when you can still see each other's upgrades; that's how l started doing Mann Up almost a decade ago and l'd do it all over again if l had to.
As a person that has 1 tour and has spent 20+ hours in boot camp it is really disappointing to me that i need to reque for 30m to find a lobby that won’t leave or kick me cause of my low tour count.
MVM’s Worst Change: Having my smoothbrain self join back in to get votekicked to oblivion
as someone who didn't start playing MvM properly till i had steady income beginning 2019, I'm now sitting at almost 70 tours with good knowledge of each class and upgrades, and I had to learn as I went reading articles and watching videos because yeah, I didn't have the confidence to ask "is this good?" and nobody could tell me it wasn't.
I mostly have the problem that if low tours are kicked how are you supposed to make let them become high tours.
Wait until Weezy hears about l4d2 multiplayer versus lobbies.
I want a tierlist with the worst toxicity in a game/and/or/gamemode, i wonder what will end up at the top, probably versus
Or Dead by Daylight.
@@januszpolak254 We... don't talk about dbd's multiplayer. Tier list wise, it would exceed S tier as everyone hates each other. I like to joke dbd's entire reason for it being still alive is that the player base is too angry and that hate fuels its existence.
@@P.H691 ah the scales of game toxicity..
on one end you got something like DRG that feels like a whole different era, where you struggle to find toxicity while actively LOOKING for it
Onnn the other hand breaking out the top of the tier list fuelled by sheer rage, slurs and spite: the dbd playerbase
The thing about not being able to Inspect peoples' upgrades unless they're on your friends list --- I think you nailed It. When I was learning MvM In 2014 the main way I Improved was by Inspecting higher tour players and extrapolating why they made the choices that they did. I didn't even need to talk to them to gain that knowledge.
10:39 I cant stop cracking up at this clip
This. It always felt like a dumb change and you summarized it perfectly
I've got to be honest, a lot of this sounds exaggerated beyond what is standard, and is quite insulting towards newer players. I don't say this is the norm either - as with most things it's a bell curve - but players *will* go out and do their own research after a few tours. I know I did. Not once did I find myself inspecting other players to see what their upgrades were because I main Scout, and Scout is generally one-per-mission. Instead, I found myself feeling ineffective and confused, so I looked up guides, learned about money Scout, and learned how to be effective on more difficult tours as damage Scout.
You can't assume that inspection allowed low-tours to look at another player and suddenly have understanding dawn upon them on how to play well. Upgrades have priorities, and how you build in the first few waves or even contextual waves (like one with a lot of crit soldiers/demos or heavies) isn't conveyed through a single status of a person during inspection. Not that you can assume everyone will do their own research either, but the way the removal of inspection is presented here makes it sound like new players will be left totally in the dark when it comes to learning MvM, rather than being capable people able to do research just as much as they would look up tutorials on how to play their class normally (See: LazyPurple's "How it feels", Uncle Dane's Engi guides, etc.)
Also, as a sidenote, Boot Camp exists. If you're going to play a gamemode you've never played before, you're probably not going to want to spend money on it if you're a total noob and will go with the free practise mode first.
I'll never forget the game I played with a pyro who kept dying and whining... later to find out he didn't know what resistances were. We were unable to see his upgrades and thus teach him, so yeah, what you said is true.
15:00 region locks just never work, ppl can still go to other regions and queue
Valve even made a language queue in dota 2 which ABSOLUTELY FAILED becuase ppl figured out that some languages had lower queue times
Never understood the hatred towards the Gas Passer. I dont even play Pyro in MvM, its just a really good tool
The entire Gas Passer debate is one of the dumbest and most illogical things I ever seen.
People complaining about it ruining fun is valid and ok. But the problem is that people that complain and are most toxic about it are high tours that only play for rewards and kick people for playing "too slow". Yeah people that want to get rewards as fast as possible hate weapon that let them do just that the most.
Weezy himself has a video on it, TL;DW: it's bad because it's "skillless" as in teaches bad habits, gives Pyro big damage numbers just by pressing 2 and M1, is really easy to recharge, and costs too little, making it OP. But related to that second point, high tours don't like it because it makes the game too easy, sucking out the big damage numbers from everyone else.
IMO it's fine lol
With 108 two cities tours, it's because it's so easy to use while being so good.
Also it steals all my hitsounds and invalidates my damage metric
People hate the gas passer due to just how it is. It's a damage nuke, which high tours apparently despise. Weezy made a point in an earlier point where high tour people hate the gas passer due to just how easy it is (in terms of damage). Soldier with beggars has to be close, sniper with explosive headshot has to aim, scottish resistence demos have to memorize, etc. Gas passer is just a simple, throw at horde and fuck you to that wave. Gas passer also encourages a playstyle that invalidates pyro's role in mvm. Pyro is suppose to be a close range tank shredder who doesn't do well in ranged, but look at that, gas passer doesn't invalidate pyro, it instead enhances pyro. Area of denial is cranked to 12 and pyro can now deal with ranged spam by just chucking a gas. Personally, I don't mind having the gas passer as it makes games go by faster and there are times when a gas passer pyro everyone was angerly chatting, saved our asses, but I do understand why high tours hate it. Does it warrant a public black list and countless vote kicks, no and no amount of excuses can excuse toxicity towards something that's suppose to make tours faster.
To be fair, Gas Passer is no more than an awful game design.
The main reason why it's hated is because it's a Pyro's weapon. The class with low survivability and highest troll potential. And with a single use nuke that needs a recharge after throwing, you get a Pyro constantly dying, wasting Gas, and ruining game plans with airblast spams.
And what driven incompetent new players to play the Pyro? Sheer power of the Gas Passer.
that sponsor transition was not expected good job on that
What sucks is that a lot of the upgrades are still actually just broken to the point of not working, or don’t work properly
nvm he actually just said this as I commented this
the firing speed upgrades are pretty much impossible to fix because it requires too much effort to change the way tf2 handles shooting as a whole, and i suppose running 128 tick mvm servers would be a strange expense
though, fixing it would be possible, since csgo was able to have precise rpm on all weapons no matter the tick rate
i'll say it here any now, its honestly too common to see high tours being unfair to newer players, and when newer players want to avoid that situation by being more violently stubborn about their choices even if incorrect from the standpoint of effectiveness, the fact stands that the community has formed this about the game due to a extreme lack of team focus and a extreme focus on the profits, most high tours just want to get their payout and leave meanwhile low tours will spend a whole 20 minutes trying to figure out the upgrades and hoping they're doing well, i'll just say this once, during the 140 second timer from the first ready up, if you cannot drop a simple "hey just asking if everyone got the rather useful upgrades like dispenser range, projectile shield and explosive headshot, those are good upgrades to pick" and just leaving it at that, if more info is asked then please write out what you'd use for the upgrades but remember to include that its not a requirement for each upgrade to be exact, since most new players can't get a grip on it all until playing around with it and it frustrates them when being yelled at to do something, as such just ushering in some good info with an easy to read option would be best, and if the upgrade is broken or if they pick a bad weapon like huntsman just make sure you drop the info on why its rather disliked instead of claiming its bad and offering nothing else than a votekick or them switching off it, its just really weird to see how many high tours end up queuing with 4-5 teammates just so they can have the voting block in case they get either someone who can't/wont cooperate with the rest of the team, so they can either kick them if they really want to, but the more silent majority just watch in complete agony as a pyro upgrades the melee weapon and goes in to kill bot scouts and there is just no reason for having tf2 mix the language barriers like that
Im over tour 70 and that part where you said "just copy the high tours" is exactly what i did and i basically carry any lobby im in. Ive learned so many crazy tactics just by observing and asking questions. Ive tried to not be toxic but when ever i ask lower tours to not do something or do something (in a polite way) they usually just ignore more most of the time. So for any low tours reading this just do your research, look up videos and just copy the high tours.
I played 1 tour with my friend on two cities. It went really well and everyone helped us with the classes weapons strategies and upgrades we needed. It was overall a nice experience. But to be honest, i watched your videos since you had under 10k subscribers, and knew a bit about mvm. I also had some 300 hours on tf2 (:
“Sowing seeds of knowledge” is a beautiful way of saying “being called a slur, yelled at some more and then probably kicked”.
do love people assuming literally every person who plays mvm a lot does that kinda thing, great generalising :)
@@yerfriendlyneighborhoodsco3337thx
great job contributing to the ever-increasing pile of nuclear waste that is mvm
You are the type of person being mocked in this video.
If half of the developers of TF2 at valve, if there are any left, played mvm, they would find out every thing in this video- the largest problem is valve's lack of understanding of the situation
hey weezy i do want to say you actually got me back to playing mvm again, i did feel just it being boring so i never picked it up again until like when i started watching you videos so thanks dude
I'm kind of torn to be honest. I'm the one hand I totally agree that inspect upgrade was just a half measure. But on the other hand I feel like the problem is high tours not policing the douchebags that caused valve to both over and underreact.
I know that sounds kind of shitty to say, but there's an old saying that the community is its own worst enemy and MvM is a god tier example of that.
@@risa1467 One can hope, and honestly having played a ton of MMO likes over the years this is an unfortunately common phenomenon where the community can't police itself so the developer has to step in. Sometimes the developer solution is worse than community solution which is why I'm torn on this one because valve solution was obviously terrible, but I also have been around matches with taco bot blowhards scampering around and honestly As much as I hate to say it I'd rather take valves ham fisted solution over The community solution if there are no developer oversights to prevent the absolute toxic waste dump of players who should have been vaced alongside the bots they so heavily rail against
Exactly, I agree 100%. Most of the problems in gaming that basically censor or remove features because people were using them to harass others are a result of the community not policing itself. The community barely did anything to stop the Toxic High Tours harassment of low tours, so Valve had to step in. Of course, it didn't really work, and I agree it's removal did remove potential for helping newer players. In my opinion though, this all just shows that the growing divide between higher and lower skilled players is often caused and reinforced by said higher skilled players.
If Valve isnt willing to revert the Inspect change, it might be nice to have an official "Suggested Upgrades" blurb for each weapon. Kinda like Genshin Impact's, just giving you a few icons to indicate some of the most important upgrades that new players might not realize are important.
So... basically a high tour looking over everyone's shoulder and suggesting the correct upgrade order. But if you dont want to get Dispenser Range they're not going to leave.
I haven't played Genshin but Persona does something similar where in newer games you can see what other players did on any particular day, something like that where if you can see that 75% of players stopped upgrading sentry speed at 2 marks that would tell you its not worth it
It also doesn't help how some upgrades in MVM don't work, and the game just doesn't straight-up tell the player. For example:
Soldier's Rocket Specialist ticks only work for blast radius.
Pyro's Afterburn Damage doesn't work.
Heavy's second Firing Speed tick only doesn't do anything for all of his primaries except for the Tomislov, which works on the second tick, but not the first (if I remember correctly).
Heavy's Knockback Rage cuts his damage in half, and he does less damage to tanks.
The Engineer's third Sentry Firing Speed upgrade doesn't work.
The Sniper's Huntsman 25% Damage Bonus upgrade only raises it by 15%.
Your music selection is always excellent.
It'd be fun if in the theoretical part 2 of the summer update they accidentally re-enable it to see what happens
I didn't know checking upgrades was a thing, all I use inspect for is to see which weapons they are using and see if they're good or not, I was very confused when i saw "Invalid Target" (new player, 0 tour)
Just because you get mad that someone got a reload upgrade before a damage upgrade doesn't mean they caused the problem... You are responsible for getting mad. Unless they're dealing truly trash damage then you have no reason to be mad, they're just sub-optimal.
So guess how I learn how to proper upgrade when first playing MvM, I played the easiest class to upgrade (Engie maxing out Dispenser Range and Swing Speed first well slowly upgrading Defences and other useful Building upgrades) and inspect people with 20+ tours on how they upgraded as Medic, Demo, Heavy, Scout, Soldier, and Sniper knowing what to avoid and what people see as worth spending money on. Now no one can learn the same way I did.... Thanks Valve for continuing to make changing that would reduce toxicity by removing it from new player/ F2P and causing the issue to end up spiralling out of control, sorry Medic didn't know new guy playing soldier was damage as he can't even call Medic, and couldn't type or talk to ask for help. Also new players getting kicked (for reasons as getting lost, not moving, or learning how to play) can talk back and sadly all Sir Toxic IDK was Scream bot after calling kick for people to quick F1 before checking the guy. Sadly seen to many no hat no speak heavy(s) get kick for "bot" for being new and not able to confirm there not. Also people joining calling vote kick Screaming Bot and leaving, getting tiring this stuff.
Alternate title: "Piss baby high tour cries that he's being (rightfully) called out for leaving just because there's new players (and apparently he doesn't have a mic to just talk to them for 2 seconds about upgrades)"
Hey weezy here’s an idea for a video, since I can’t find any other ones making a video just saying which robots come from where on each wave would be helpful, love your stuff man
5:30 did I hear a sneaky WoW reference in there?
They added this thing in Dota a few years ago after Overwatch did the same. You cannot check profiles of anyone. Still stupid but maybe It IS reducing toxicity. In PVP. In PVE no inspect is even more stupid and dumb and stupid
I feel like a fun update for MvM would be to let you inspect someone elses upgrades at the station, but also let you buy them their upgrades.
If a teammate is being uncooperative or unresponsive, for example the engineer oblivious to dispenser range, you could buy them the upgrades with your own money
Casually speaking you could also create a stupidly powerful super DPS monster in wave 1 if you wanted to, at the cost of having 5 mercs that are weaker than usual.
I feel like if this was done you'd have people kicking others for not buying them upgrades. it would be strategically the best choice to give significant amounts of money to the players with more experience, but that's also incredibly boring and further discourages new players from gaining experience in the first place.
Welcome back weezy
Bro changed his thumbnail from spy to pyro 💀 #BringBackSpy
The thumbnail changed from spy to pyro
hey weezy, or anyone else reading this, when using projectile sheild, how does anyone know how to prevent the game freezing. it works fine when i use it, but as soon as the bot or the tank touch it, my frame rate reduce to 0-1fps
I learned what upgrades are good mostly through basic common sense and trial and error. Of course this was when MVM just came out and everyone was learning. I have faith the new players will also learn.
How long that will take will be anyone’s guess.
Feel like a solid in between would be make inspect upgrades a request thing like trades.
Also you can STILL see upgrades for players if you die and click mouse1/2 and f(spectate inspect)
How did no one get the wow reference when he said “time is money friends”
Usually if I see a low tour using a bad weapon I try to tell them to use an option thats better. For example a low tour heavy was using the tomislav, I asked why and he asks what he should use instead, I told him stock or the brass beast if he had it, then he switched and then it was fine from there. Idk why valve thought us having to notice these things to help would be better than us having to inspect eachother.
When I hit a lobby where folks are friendly in MVM those make me wanna play more. Especially since they are liable to let me play pyro or at least be polite when asking me to go medic or soldier
I just play Bootcamp with sniper as my go to pick. Without tour counts or inspect, I just leave the moment someone picks pyro. They may focus on tank busting, but more often than not I have to assume they bought airblast and are going to remove my ability to play the game, and I feel that it's just easier to find a new lobby than try and convince them not to spam airblast.
Your videos are the reason I got interested in MvM in the first place
This is literally the first I'm hearing of the sentry firing speed upgrade doing nothing
didn't even know this was an option.
I never even knew sentry firing speed was bugged until right now
Do we know if Valve's claim that they fixed the no upgrades allowed bug is actually true yet?
I know valve is incompetent but that seems like a simple fix, I'm sure even them could make it
Imagine ignoring the fact that people can type in chat:
"Hey what's the best upgrades for
I actually got an Australian grenade laucher today, after 12 tours
Banana man releasing yet another presentation for the tf2 team to watch in their Monday meeting, thank you for your continued efforts.
You mean the janitor, the office fern and the community developers?
i didn't even know you could inspect upgrades
What if valve just hides the tour count huh? Would love to see that
Bro you can edit your comment, you don't need to make 7 different comment every time you have something else to say.
I remember trying to check what hat a dude was wearing and I thought it was a bug
weezy how did you get that poker night at the inventory footage theres no possible way to get the game anymore
Yesterday I was in an mvm game with a sniper with 4 tours, I wrongfully assumed they were gonna be trash, but they pulled their weight and got 2nd in damage on the scoreboard and made sensible upgrades.
Hoping for a Gear Grinder/Mecha Engine tier list soon
I have a few dozen tours of two city under my belt but I had completely forgotten Sentry Firing Speed 3 doesn't work. I've never been called out for it because it's usually one of my later wave purchases but damn
i just inspected this video and uuh yeah buddy thats a kick
I didn't actually know that sentry firing speed didn't work, thanks!
I get the janitor's intentions. Tacobot is a miserable and cold place. But, that's only a retardant to the problem.
is this just for mann up or cas as well. im too broke to do that shit so i just fool around in cas
I max out sentry firing speed. And it does work, just only on the wrangler.
This is basically like say "you cannot have itchy feet if you don't have feet".
Well, yeah, but that's not something I would want, it would cause even more problems
what
Nowdays I have to confusignly hug a dispenser to find out if I need to ask the engi to buy dispenser range, and that's really easy to forget about and not notice, despite how much it helps...
And what about the upgrade station glitch fix?
you say all that but i have a question
how many people ACTUALLY looked at peoples upgrades and did actually try to help
i dont have many tours so sure i might be the odd one out but i never seen some one try to see some one else upgrades and tell them how to play
every time since the beginning of MvM it was start the game play if we win continue if we lose every one leaves
I didn't even know it wasn't a thing anymore until I played mvm again a few months ago, it was absolutely pointless to remove it
I didn't even know that was an MvM feature.
The Smissmas stocking should just drop 20 tickets to everyone for free and then Mann Up mode should be deleted a month later
I'm sick of MvM at this point