@@sergeychistov8162 I thought sticky falloff worked depending on the player’s position to the sticky bomb, and then a short like 0.45 after arm time rampup
Maybe it's just not enough people playing the gamemode but from my experience skilled scouts (or whatever class) in mvm can be rly rare, in all honesty I saw scouts who get less dmg full game than me in a single wave lol Once I saw a pyro get outdmged by a med full game lol (and the team said he did a good job) I still see soldiers who forget rocket jumping exists on a regular basis Oh and the skill difference between Mann up and boot camp can barely be anything (but I just play community so idfk anymore) Edit : ig I kinda derailed the topic but it's true lmao
@@M4x_P0w3r Underscore gaming has a scout guide video on youtube. he's the reason i do damage scout nowadays instead of support and i constantly put soldiers to shame on 2cities. you dont need canteens or crit-a-cola, just good upgrades.
I remembered hearing about aiming up to max the flamethrower damage on tanks. This is literally the first video that explains _why_ that is the case. It's like learning the Davinci code and the science behind it in one.
*Ahem* I released my video on December 25, 2022, and I even explain that you can actually aim in a few directions OTHER than just "up". The important part is actually that you're cutting across the corner of the hitbox instead of straight through it. Also, the explanation in this video is just... wrong. Read the captions from the screenshots he included, not the voiceover. The screenshots are the correct explanation.
1:49 mini crits don’t have damage fall-off, but they are affected by ramp up, so it’s definitely optimal to be as close as possible. But yeah, it’s still great to do good consistent damage at any range.
Scout is so baller at tank busting, even in early rounds. The key to keeping up with not much money is to equip the Crit-a-Cola and get three Ammo canteens. Shoot three full clips normally, but at the end of the third clip use the ammo canteen and you'll get another clip before the cola runs out and you get your cola back too. Note that while mini crits don't have fall off, they do have ramp up, so using the 35% bonus of mini crits and 75% ramp up of scatterguns, you can get really close to doing full critical damage with just mini crits. Also the Soda Popper's optimal upgrade path for max DPS is firing speed 1 > clip size 1 > damage 1-2 > clip size 2 > damage 3-4 > clip size 3-4.
@@speedody2171 If we're talking Scout in general then you should still take clip size first since it increases your DPS more than the first damage tick. A meatshot clip dump hit and run is pretty much the only thing you should be doing, or else you risk taking too much damage, and missing is pretty hard when you're at max ramp up range. The only time I can think of taking damage first is if you need to be the medic killer, and if it's come to that, you might just want to switch classes or abandon ship.
@@xaviersavard6343 In TF2, for most of the weapons, the damage scales off the distance between you and your target. Under normal circumstances, your weapons' damage is boosted up to 150% at point blank, and reduced down to 50% at long range. So, for example, given that a soldier's rocket's nominal damage is 95 - it will deal up to 142 point-blank, and as low as 47 if you're pestering snipers across the map. In short, we can say that a normal weapon's "damage profile" is: 150% - 100% - 50%. Scout is special in that regard - the high point for his primaries is instead 175%, giving rise to ultra-damaging "meatshots". So his profile is 175% - 100% - 50%. When you're mini-critted, on top of multiplying your damage by 1.45, it also gets rid of the long-distance fall-off (but the close-range boost still stays). Combining both factors together gives a "normal mini-crit profile" at 217% - 145% - 145%, and "the Scout's mini-crit profile" at 254% - 145% - 145%. So, it is still quite beneficial to get into the tank's prostate even when mini-crit-boosted. Full crits, in the other hand, do actually just deal flat 300% - 300% - 300% of the nominal damage, regardless of distance or class.
Thank you for not just saying "Heavy should never attack the tank" like I often see people do. Even with the harsh damage penalty, he's able to dish out a lot of carnage to it. And the idea that "Tankbusting is X class's job!" Is how new players lose waves. Everyone needs to do their part. Just as collecting credits isn't exclusively Scout's job.
If the tank is the last objective in the wave, I will go for the tank as Heavy. If not, I only give tanks a little love tap with my Minigun just to increase my Tanks Destroyed strange part (don't ask me why it has that part, it was gifted to me that way).
@@theshermantanker7043 if it's a tank only wave, and you have around 1300 bucks at your disposal. Then yeah, heavy can bust the tank 4 points of warrior's spirit swing speed 2 points of buffalo steak recharge
Seeing that Airstrike soldier delete half a tank’s health in 2 seconds flat, I felt not unlike how a Roman soldier must’ve felt when he found out the other team was bringing elephants to a sword fight.
It's important to note that, once the swords have had their damages upgraded, you can safely swap back to a sticky launcher and maintain the damage bonus.
@@MitchellTheMitch Damage upgrades are only unlocked if you have a shield equipped. If you upgrade the damage of your swords, then unequip the shield, your sword will still have whatever damage upgrades you gave it despite no longer having access to the upgrade.
I remember when jungle inferno was released and the dragon's fury was absolutely broken in mvm tankbusting when you could if I correctly recall buy attack speed upgrades or something. All I remember was that it shot really fast.
that shit was so funny, week 1 i hopped into a match on rottenburg and on the final wave a guy said go dragon fury so we all switched to pyro and melted the tanks so fast that they died before they even exited the spawn door.
Pyro main here but I _won’t_ argue for The Dragon’s Fury as fun as it is. It has it’s own mechanics that would be, as you put it, adding caviar to cheese and crackers. It is really good, but Phlog still has the best general use application even if it’s weaker against giants. In other words, you’re not sacrificing your ability to do crowd control with the Phlog. As much as I do like The Dragon Fury’s potential, it’s best left to High Tour Harry.
If you're a heavy and don't trust your team, it's definitely a good idea to keep the steak sandvich and warrior's spirit on standby. It doesn't happen often, but I have had missions where I, the heavy, wound up being the primary tank buster by default.
A note on the Spy is that the Diamondback is quite good against tanks, so if you're fine with giving up the l'etranger's cloak on hit for the dead ringer, Spy can actually help deal with tanks if he's sufficiently critted up
Fantastic content as always. Always had a good thrill when I ended up nuking a tank before it can get a good steam going, and hopefully with this guide more people can get that same rush too!
For spy, if you use the stock revolver with max firing speed and 2 clip size up, have both crit on kill on the knife, you can can do some decent tank damage by stabbing a robot then switching to the gun and emptying your clip.
For spy, if you really got nothing better to do, you can get crit on kill on the knife and a big clip + firing speed on a stock revolver. Stab a random scout, then unload your clip onto the tank, and you'll have some impact still. Just don't expect to solo it!
True. I actually saw this while playing on Wave 666. I got crit on kill, and the crits apply to your revolver. Stab a robot, and unload your crits. And crits on aknife make it so every hit counts as a backstab last I checked, or at least it plays the animation.
It also has great synergy with the sapper stun as you can insta kill robot in any direction, so you don't necessarily have to trickstab some random scout bots just to get the crits.
1:11 Are those the Happy Feet? Wombly Combly? I don't believe that's Falco. I mean, couldn't be Falco. phwaooo Proper good! my goodness! Incredibly work. Goodness me, very impressive. Wombly Combly! Wombly Combly. Well, my friend. I have never in my life...
As heavy, tank busting is pretty low priority, but I've found that with projectile penetration and some positioning you can shoot the tank AND robots on the other side. It's very situational, but I've gotten some use out of it in rottenburg before the tank destroys the barricade, as well as mannworks when the tank's in the first stairway chokepoints (I've only done it on right side to my memory though).
Important to note for Heavy, that 800 credits might be legitimately the difference between penetrating multiple targets or any other important yet expensive upgrades, don’t go for it unless you’re desperately struggling
@@SamuelTrademarkedoh wait I misread the comment sorry. I haven't seen any ghost upgrade for reload speed. I might try that myself, just to see if I can.
1:47 One problem - while mini crits don't suffer from damage falloff, you still don't get the full damage ramp-up, so even with mini crits, you're still leaving damage on the table if you're not directly next to the tank. Same goes with Soldier if using Buff Banner, you should be standing just outside of the blast radius so you're getting the best balance of damage ramp-up without destroying yourself with your own rockets (unless you have a Medic with you, which then you could get right up next to it). Only when you have full crits you don't have to worry about this. As for the Dragon's Fury, counterpoint - Dragon's Fury has comparable DPS to Phlog even when you factor in the free crits from Phlog. The Dragon's Fury has a much higher DPS than Phlog if you take crits out of the equation, so certain situations will be more favorable to it than the Phlog will, such as if you can consistently stay fully critted (Kritz Medic with canteen sharing and crit canteens, for example), or if tanks aren't lasting long enough for you to get the full mileage out of Phlog's crit mechanic.
Thanks for explaining the look up with phlog pyro technique I had someone go nuts on me in coaltown I was really trying to figure it out because he never brought up crouching
1:39 Damage will be higher the closer you are to the center of the tank, meaning that hugging the sides of a tank deals the most damage, while the front and the back of the tank gives the least, since the tank has a rectangular shape.
For Scout section it's pretty much spot on. HOWEVER, I'd say that having a Scout whose priorities is damage is better from the get go. More damage/kills = more dead robots which lets you focus on tanks more/faster but also allows you to focus on cash easier. Yes I'm a hybrid/damage Scout advocate
Your explanation for the flame particle mechanics is slightly incorrect. Aiming up doesn’t make the flame particles hit twice, it simply makes each particle do double the damage compared to aiming straight at the tank. The flamethrower works by shooting a stream of flame particles. If a particle contacts an enemy, they take damage. Younger flame particles do more damage than older ones. In the case where multiple flame particles are contacting an enemy, the oldest particle is used to determine the damage the enemy takes. The purpose of aiming up at the tank is to ensure only young flames particles contact the tank’s hitbox. Aiming straight at the tank keeps old particles in contact with the tank’s hitbox, meaning the game uses those old flame particles to calculate the damage. Also, you don’t necessarily need to aim up, aiming at any edge on the side or top of the tank is usually enough to only have young flame particles contacting the tank, maximizing damage.
I once outdamaged a Phlog pyro on my team by using the Bushwacka/Carbine combo. The key is to dedicate credits to the Carbine alongside the Bushwacka. Usually I max out the fire rate so I can build Crikey the quickest, and put a couple of points into both magazine capacity and total ammo capacity, minimizing the need to reload or hunt for an ammo box. This combo, paired with the Heatmaker, is in my opinion the best dual-purpose Sniper loadout. Heatmaker for regular bot-bashing, and Carbine/Bushwacka for helping out with tank-busting.
or just dump points into your sniper, yknow, the primary of the SNIPER class. snipers should not be on tank no matter how much damage theyre outputting, their job is to kill uber medics and giants while the rest of the team deals with tanks
@@cellbuilder2 even with mmph crits, if they were dying or hadnt upgraded their damage enough (or not using the flame particle trick), they were doing poor damage regardless.
1:50 minicrits can actually still ramp up iirc, so when you're boosted to that you'll still want to get as close as you can. Full crits don't have ramp up, so good to go from distance.
Some people really need to see this video Seen so many new and semi experienced players doing big mistakes for tank busting And of course they just ignore you all the time, even if you tell them how to be more optimal
Hey, found your content a while ago and started to play MvM again, and I'm having a hard time finding anyone talking about each of the classes upgrades and what's considered a meta upgrade or any potential bugged upgrades. I think much like this video that was very helpful (especially not knowing the dmg reduction that the minigun has to tanks), a video briefly describing what upgrades for each class are the most important relative to others would be neat. Funny and informative as always Mr. Banana.
A guy called 'Underscore Gaming' has really good guides for most of the classes (Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Engineer, Sniper and Spy) here on UA-cam. They all come with all the necessary upgrade advice. Highly recommend watching them.
What about a tank busting tier list involving every weapon? Using the same combos get boring after a certain while, so it would be nice to know what else is available and what isn't
Great video as always Weezy! Although I have a question about Righteous Bison if you don't mind, one of my friend told me that it's extremely powerful against tanks, so I made an experiment and was surprised by the result because it works fantastically with crit canteens. So I want to know what's your opinion on them? Are my friend wrong and should I use it more often?
Generally, you do a really good job of giving ample proof for why you think things are the best option. You didn't do that for the Dragon's Fury/Phlog here. You just said "Other people claim this, they are wrong." Why isn't the Fury up there with the Phlog?
Yeah I remember in wave 666 when the dozen or so tanks spawned since I had so much money I would use the DB + max upgrades + crit canteens and do a decent amount of damage.
If we actually get an update for TF2, I'd love to see MvM get two things: A brand new Tour and a new Robot. That being... Mini-Tanks that are able to produce quite a bit of damage. It would be the first non re-skin of any of the classes (besides normal tank) for a robot. Brand new hitbox, sound, weapons and animations. Maybe make it like the scarab from the Halo series.
Also, make Heavy a little better on the minigun damage. Like you can do what the launchers do, increase your damage for four ticks on ALL miniguns, including Brass Beast, it would go up by 25% for... Around 300 per tick.
heres a tip for sticky traps as demoman: when you detonate the stickies they will deal less damage if the tank is on top of the trap, why is this a thing? i dont know but dont detonate while the tank is on top of the trap, maybe earlier, maybe later but not when the tank is on top of them
I'm not sure I buy the traditional "The Heavy is more valuable up front" line anymore. The Heavy is slow and fat and often quite vulnerable to certain types of robots without support from his teammates. Sometimes, shooting the tank at point-blank range with a 75% damage penalty but also maximum ramp-up is still more efficient than fighting a monster giant robot that you can't 1v1. Also, many teams struggle with tank busting, so I give that priority over the old Milk n' Mark in most situations. Especially if the only person using the Milk is a Heavy who's already being pocketed by a Kritz Medic. Finally, I think that you were a bit harsh on The Spy. As was I in my Spy video. The revolvers are actually kind of okay, especially if you have a few credits to spare. Given The Spy's specialized nature, sometimes there isn't really anything more important for him to be doing, and he can give some decent help with tanks instead of waiting around for the next Giant to spawn. Wait. You messed up the Pyro tank trick explanation, too. You want the flame particles to NOT hit twice. Hitting twice is what makes them do less damage because the lower-damage second hit overrides the first.
The bison is actually fairly good at tank busting from the front or back, as you can hit the tank several times either way, and potentially hit other robots behind it to add some extra damage. It's a meme strat, but one that can actually work fairly cheaply with minimal team coordination.
I was on a random boot camp and i got so desperate that i just upgraded some stock flamethrower damage and full swing speed on my melee 2 crit canteen and i helped my team pretty well
if you want "the best strategy" for spy, to bust tank I would say it's crit on kill with knife, and shotrate on revolver. As much as others are still better option. I believe it's best strategy for Spy for it. (so you stab bot in the back, and shoot magazine of ?x120 dmg into the tank)
4:19 I... Did... Did I miss your reasonings for the Dragon's Fury being worse or did you just not mention them...? Because I'd say the Dragon's Fury is better for giants, and I'll take that tradeoff, being SLIGHTLY worse against the tank. It's not a bad option and you cannot tell me otherwise. I will only agree that it is not optimal.
The crits canteen can also work for stock revolver spies Since there is no a damage penalty Although youre right Spy is a pick class not a damage dealer
I agree an Engi with Widowmaker is one of the best to deal with tanks along with Buff banner Beggar's soldier I have shread tanks on wave 666 with both of them and well They are hella good at the job
Advice for spy players: Although its not much, you can POSSIBLY do a bit more damage via buying the "Crit on kill" for the knife and using your gun on the tank afterwards, with max clip size, firing speed, etc...you'll be able to dish out SOME kind of damage to the tank...so if you have the credits to spend and there are tanks, this method will let you at least do a BIT more contribution to taking out a tank than just poking it with your butter knife alone
I often use Pyro for MVM, Phlog and as secondary either the gas passer or the detonator. Powerjack when there's no spies and homewrecker when I see possibility of spies. I always concentrate myself on lighting on fire the scout waves and finishing them off, When soldiers or demos come its a matter of flare spam... as for the giants its a matter of just spinning around them and keeping them away from obliterating me For the giants, I will drop you a useful hint. You can let the tank push you around since it won't kill you, but you gotta AIM UP in order for more flames to hit the tank and increase the total DMG output, I always combine it with reestock canteens and spam mmph at it. That way I end up tankbusting on my own while my friends focus on destroying the support of the tank... that if they're good enough. Otherwise I end up flanked by bomb carrying scouts and bam it's all over for me.
Hey Weezy, I was wondering if you could maybe in the future do a guide of how to complete Mecha Engine? I’ve noticed there isn’t any sort of guide at all and who better to cover it, then the king of MVM, himself! I’m looking for something hopefully in depth as opposed to: “Just make sure you have a sniper” but I know you’re not going to make it that simple because you’re good with guides!
There is also the bison as well. But only use it if you have another soldier with a banner. In case you guys don't believe me, try it out in solo wave first and then try it in groups. I was able to deal 75k dmg on tank with medic kritz on an intermediate rottenburg level while everyone else was around 15k.
I always tend to give myself 2 or 3 crit canteens (depending on money and size of wave), then do at least one damage and max ammo upgrade, then try to prioritize damage upgrade over max ammo, and max them out both as best I can.
It is worth noting, that especially on later waves (specifically hamlet wave 7) you have a lot of credits to play with. since the tank is a building and therefore cannot be lit on fire. making its base damage 75. With max damage upgrades, ammo, ect. also crit canteens deals 450 damage. when i personally tested this with a friend (him using max damage phlog with crits and me using max DF) i did out damage him by quite a lot. this is only good on the later waves though because the dragons fury single shots dont mix well with the swarms of bots in mvm. so unless its a wave with majority of tanks and almost nothing else, just use the phlog. wheezy is right, in most situations the phlog is better (espscially with its spray and pray rather than the DF single shot) but if you have the crits and money to back it up, the DF can absolutely clear house.
the df's better tankbusting is not worth the amount of stuff you have to juggle when you're using it seriously. you have to deal with: zero crowd control having to aim ping getting reflected by pyros ONLY SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE no mmmph your survivability gets cut in half because you're not killing as many robots, therefore HoK rate reduces unreliable airblast no on-demand ubercharge more reliance on the gas passer and a whole other shitstorm of attributes that i can't name just use the phlog (or backburner on mannhattan) lmao
When I was still learning MvM, I arrogantly decided to try going Demoknight for funsies. I was lucky enough that I had gotten into a match with a bunch of chill guys who didn't mind. I went Eyelander, Bootlegger with it, and wound up going mvp and carrying the entire match by accident. Granted, this was not a Tour. It was just Boot Camp. But still. I was super surprised to see just how weirdly good the Demoknight was at killing the tank.
I remember there was an airstrike soldier in a team. Dude was getting shat on for using it meanwhile I was rocking a Vaccinator. Didn't really communicate with him but rather prioritized pocketing him until I maxed out canteen specialist and crit canteens. It was beautiful to see a tank become scrap.
![[TF2] The Absurd Subclasses of MvM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/HS_yCrudniY/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] The Absurd Subclasses of MvM](/img/tr.png)
![[TF2] The Biggest MvM Mistakes](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/wobYwE6nM2c/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] Ranking EVERY Pyro Weapon in MvM](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/8FY8ybekZxo/mqdefault.jpg)
![[TF2] INSANE MvM Player Responds...](/img/n.gif)
It's worth noting that demoman's stickies do more damage to tanks if they explode next to them rather than under them.
That is something I never knew
Really?
What's the source engine magic behind that?
And they also have damage ramp-up, so try to set them off asap.
For what reason???
@@sergeychistov8162 I thought sticky falloff worked depending on the player’s position to the sticky bomb, and then a short like 0.45 after arm time rampup
scout being a tank buster sounds like a fever dream
Scout's a rly high burst dmg class lol (believe it or not)
Even dewill and wheezy underrate him
Oh and they can't even play him that well
@@speedody2171 Well, who can play him that well in mvm?
Maybe it's just not enough people playing the gamemode but from my experience skilled scouts (or whatever class) in mvm can be rly rare, in all honesty I saw scouts who get less dmg full game than me in a single wave lol
Once I saw a pyro get outdmged by a med full game lol (and the team said he did a good job)
I still see soldiers who forget rocket jumping exists on a regular basis
Oh and the skill difference between Mann up and boot camp can barely be anything (but I just play community so idfk anymore)
Edit : ig I kinda derailed the topic but it's true lmao
I only saw couple scouts in my life that actually played the class (upgraded their gun properly) and didn't rely on 1000 jump height or resists
@@M4x_P0w3r Underscore gaming has a scout guide video on youtube. he's the reason i do damage scout nowadays instead of support and i constantly put soldiers to shame on 2cities. you dont need canteens or crit-a-cola, just good upgrades.
I remembered hearing about aiming up to max the flamethrower damage on tanks. This is literally the first video that explains _why_ that is the case. It's like learning the Davinci code and the science behind it in one.
*Ahem*
I released my video on December 25, 2022, and I even explain that you can actually aim in a few directions OTHER than just "up". The important part is actually that you're cutting across the corner of the hitbox instead of straight through it.
Also, the explanation in this video is just... wrong. Read the captions from the screenshots he included, not the voiceover. The screenshots are the correct explanation.
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel cool
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel cool
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel hi I watch your videos, theyre really cool!
@@UnderscoreGamingChannel gotta love that a misinformed video goes so much further than a correct one
1:49 mini crits don’t have damage fall-off, but they are affected by ramp up, so it’s definitely optimal to be as close as possible. But yeah, it’s still great to do good consistent damage at any range.
Scout is so baller at tank busting, even in early rounds. The key to keeping up with not much money is to equip the Crit-a-Cola and get three Ammo canteens. Shoot three full clips normally, but at the end of the third clip use the ammo canteen and you'll get another clip before the cola runs out and you get your cola back too. Note that while mini crits don't have fall off, they do have ramp up, so using the 35% bonus of mini crits and 75% ramp up of scatterguns, you can get really close to doing full critical damage with just mini crits. Also the Soda Popper's optimal upgrade path for max DPS is firing speed 1 > clip size 1 > damage 1-2 > clip size 2 > damage 3-4 > clip size 3-4.
If ur aim is good upgrading dmg earlier is better
@@speedody2171 aim? It's a tank, how are you missing
@@SkywayFishers oh I thought u were talking about scout in general
@@speedody2171 ???
@@speedody2171 If we're talking Scout in general then you should still take clip size first since it increases your DPS more than the first damage tick. A meatshot clip dump hit and run is pretty much the only thing you should be doing, or else you risk taking too much damage, and missing is pretty hard when you're at max ramp up range. The only time I can think of taking damage first is if you need to be the medic killer, and if it's come to that, you might just want to switch classes or abandon ship.
I think it’s worth mentioning that mini-crits don’t have fall-off, but they still have ramp-up. So the prostate exam is still preferred.
How does that even work!?
@@xaviersavard6343 In TF2, for most of the weapons, the damage scales off the distance between you and your target. Under normal circumstances, your weapons' damage is boosted up to 150% at point blank, and reduced down to 50% at long range. So, for example, given that a soldier's rocket's nominal damage is 95 - it will deal up to 142 point-blank, and as low as 47 if you're pestering snipers across the map.
In short, we can say that a normal weapon's "damage profile" is: 150% - 100% - 50%.
Scout is special in that regard - the high point for his primaries is instead 175%, giving rise to ultra-damaging "meatshots". So his profile is 175% - 100% - 50%.
When you're mini-critted, on top of multiplying your damage by 1.45, it also gets rid of the long-distance fall-off (but the close-range boost still stays). Combining both factors together gives a "normal mini-crit profile" at 217% - 145% - 145%, and "the Scout's mini-crit profile" at 254% - 145% - 145%. So, it is still quite beneficial to get into the tank's prostate even when mini-crit-boosted.
Full crits, in the other hand, do actually just deal flat 300% - 300% - 300% of the nominal damage, regardless of distance or class.
Tickle the robo-balls
Thank you for not just saying "Heavy should never attack the tank" like I often see people do. Even with the harsh damage penalty, he's able to dish out a lot of carnage to it.
And the idea that "Tankbusting is X class's job!" Is how new players lose waves. Everyone needs to do their part. Just as collecting credits isn't exclusively Scout's job.
@Flyin' Steve 2city has no tanks
@Flyin' Steve "what do you mean gas passer doesn't instakill the tanks?!? Expert is such bullshit"
If the tank is the last objective in the wave, I will go for the tank as Heavy. If not, I only give tanks a little love tap with my Minigun just to increase my Tanks Destroyed strange part (don't ask me why it has that part, it was gifted to me that way).
Heavy should attack the tank, just not with his mjnigun
@@theshermantanker7043 if it's a tank only wave, and you have around 1300 bucks at your disposal. Then yeah, heavy can bust the tank
4 points of warrior's spirit swing speed
2 points of buffalo steak recharge
So THAT'S why aiming up on tanks makes flamethrowers do more. Fascinating.
Seeing that Airstrike soldier delete half a tank’s health in 2 seconds flat, I felt not unlike how a Roman soldier must’ve felt when he found out the other team was bringing elephants to a sword fight.
Hannibal Moment
It's important to note that, once the swords have had their damages upgraded, you can safely swap back to a sticky launcher and maintain the damage bonus.
damn, thats mindblowing, definitely will apply that in game
Elaborate more please?
@@MitchellTheMitch Damage upgrades are only unlocked if you have a shield equipped. If you upgrade the damage of your swords, then unequip the shield, your sword will still have whatever damage upgrades you gave it despite no longer having access to the upgrade.
I remember when jungle inferno was released and the dragon's fury was absolutely broken in mvm tankbusting when you could if I correctly recall buy attack speed upgrades or something. All I remember was that it shot really fast.
Valve removed the re-pressurization upgrade from the dragons fury in mvm to turn it into airblast
that shit was so funny, week 1 i hopped into a match on rottenburg and on the final wave a guy said go dragon fury so we all switched to pyro and melted the tanks so fast that they died before they even exited the spawn door.
@@isildurfour That sounds fun as hell and would rival th ephlog for the meta spot. I wish I was there to see it.
@@mariustan9275 it didn't rival the phlog, it was straight up better by a land slide. like twice as much dps.
@@isildurfour That sounds so much fun. Maybe tone it down a little and it'd be fine.
“We are the British army our might is unmatched we have unending numbers of men and ship”
“Dis boomstick makes mah taxes go away”
I love that Weezy is one the few TFTubers I watch with enough mental strength to continue playing MvM.
I did a double take on that ending ranking when I saw 10 bullet points.
I was like " wait...10? There aren't 10 classes."
there are dude, the madcap is one of the best mvm classes
2 medics
Scout Soldier Pyro Demoman Heavy Engineer Medic Sniper Spy and Saxton
Pyro main here but I _won’t_ argue for The Dragon’s Fury as fun as it is. It has it’s own mechanics that would be, as you put it, adding caviar to cheese and crackers. It is really good, but Phlog still has the best general use application even if it’s weaker against giants. In other words, you’re not sacrificing your ability to do crowd control with the Phlog.
As much as I do like The Dragon Fury’s potential, it’s best left to High Tour Harry.
It's nice to see someone else using the Overdose for once, and talking about the offensive capabilities of shield bashing.
If you're a heavy and don't trust your team, it's definitely a good idea to keep the steak sandvich and warrior's spirit on standby. It doesn't happen often, but I have had missions where I, the heavy, wound up being the primary tank buster by default.
A note on the Spy is that the Diamondback is quite good against tanks, so if you're fine with giving up the l'etranger's cloak on hit for the dead ringer, Spy can actually help deal with tanks if he's sufficiently critted up
I personally love to use the Widowmaker over The Rescue Ranger, so this is a nice callout to our tank prowess
Demoknight on tanks is the only time random crits are appreciated
Your channel has THE Best music choice
Somebody finally said it
Fantastic content as always. Always had a good thrill when I ended up nuking a tank before it can get a good steam going, and hopefully with this guide more people can get that same rush too!
The day I discovered Engie's tankbusting ability was a glorious one indeed.
You forgot about the bison on the rottenburg maps when there are multiple tanks in a row. Bison + crits + 3 tanks easily does 60k damage in one wave
He didn't forgot about it, since you can see him using the Bison multiple times in the video.
@@CharmineX he doesnt mention it once
"the answer? use a gun."
"and if that dont work? use more gun"
For spy, if you use the stock revolver with max firing speed and 2 clip size up, have both crit on kill on the knife, you can can do some decent tank damage by stabbing a robot then switching to the gun and emptying your clip.
That's probably the most use I got out of that upgrade, I'm still questioning why they gave Spy's insta-kill melee the crit on kill upgrade.
@@toastyboi8737probably as a last resort when the other bots aggro onto you after you stab a few
@@Aussie_Axe wouldn't it be more efficient to just escape with dead ringer instead of standing your ground?
@@toastyboi8737 idk man ask valve
Your analogies are so good lmao.
A note for 1:47, while mini-crits indeed have no falloff they do have rampup unlike full crits.
Could you do a vid on low man runs in mvm? I've always found it interesting how 2 or even 1 person can beat a mission designed for 6 people
For spy, if you really got nothing better to do, you can get crit on kill on the knife and a big clip + firing speed on a stock revolver. Stab a random scout, then unload your clip onto the tank, and you'll have some impact still. Just don't expect to solo it!
True. I actually saw this while playing on Wave 666. I got crit on kill, and the crits apply to your revolver. Stab a robot, and unload your crits. And crits on aknife make it so every hit counts as a backstab last I checked, or at least it plays the animation.
It also has great synergy with the sapper stun as you can insta kill robot in any direction, so you don't necessarily have to trickstab some random scout bots just to get the crits.
woooooooah this video is popping off. mvm meta i guess. Good shit bro
I love your content!
I’m leaving a comment to please the algorithm so you get more subs and recognition you deserve it
Thank for the information this should help out a a lot ❤
P.S poor spy
1:11 Are those the Happy Feet? Wombly Combly? I don't believe that's Falco. I mean, couldn't be Falco. phwaooo Proper good! my goodness! Incredibly work. Goodness me, very impressive. Wombly Combly! Wombly Combly. Well, my friend. I have never in my life...
As heavy, tank busting is pretty low priority, but I've found that with projectile penetration and some positioning you can shoot the tank AND robots on the other side. It's very situational, but I've gotten some use out of it in rottenburg before the tank destroys the barricade, as well as mannworks when the tank's in the first stairway chokepoints (I've only done it on right side to my memory though).
Very helpful! Thank you weezy!
Important to note for Heavy, that 800 credits might be legitimately the difference between penetrating multiple targets or any other important yet expensive upgrades, don’t go for it unless you’re desperately struggling
1:35 Back when MVM was originally released you could do the ghost upgrade to get reload speed on the soda popper / force of nature too. So broken.
You still can.
@@mariustan9275 really? i gotta try that
@@SamuelTrademarkedoh wait I misread the comment sorry. I haven't seen any ghost upgrade for reload speed. I might try that myself, just to see if I can.
“i said tank bust not tank bukake”
this quote makes the fact that his trademark is a banana even better
1:47 One problem - while mini crits don't suffer from damage falloff, you still don't get the full damage ramp-up, so even with mini crits, you're still leaving damage on the table if you're not directly next to the tank. Same goes with Soldier if using Buff Banner, you should be standing just outside of the blast radius so you're getting the best balance of damage ramp-up without destroying yourself with your own rockets (unless you have a Medic with you, which then you could get right up next to it). Only when you have full crits you don't have to worry about this.
As for the Dragon's Fury, counterpoint - Dragon's Fury has comparable DPS to Phlog even when you factor in the free crits from Phlog. The Dragon's Fury has a much higher DPS than Phlog if you take crits out of the equation, so certain situations will be more favorable to it than the Phlog will, such as if you can consistently stay fully critted (Kritz Medic with canteen sharing and crit canteens, for example), or if tanks aren't lasting long enough for you to get the full mileage out of Phlog's crit mechanic.
Thanks for explaining the look up with phlog pyro technique I had someone go nuts on me in coaltown I was really trying to figure it out because he never brought up crouching
Every video is better than the one before, keep it up bud!
i didnt touched tf2 for years yet your videos are enjoyable to watch
1:39 Damage will be higher the closer you are to the center of the tank, meaning that hugging the sides of a tank deals the most damage, while the front and the back of the tank gives the least, since the tank has a rectangular shape.
Holy crap lois new weezy video
Good to know Kritzkrig is one of the best parts to most runs. I love when Medic is needed as the sole Medic Main.
For Scout section it's pretty much spot on. HOWEVER, I'd say that having a Scout whose priorities is damage is better from the get go. More damage/kills = more dead robots which lets you focus on tanks more/faster but also allows you to focus on cash easier.
Yes I'm a hybrid/damage Scout advocate
Your explanation for the flame particle mechanics is slightly incorrect. Aiming up doesn’t make the flame particles hit twice, it simply makes each particle do double the damage compared to aiming straight at the tank.
The flamethrower works by shooting a stream of flame particles. If a particle contacts an enemy, they take damage. Younger flame particles do more damage than older ones. In the case where multiple flame particles are contacting an enemy, the oldest particle is used to determine the damage the enemy takes.
The purpose of aiming up at the tank is to ensure only young flames particles contact the tank’s hitbox. Aiming straight at the tank keeps old particles in contact with the tank’s hitbox, meaning the game uses those old flame particles to calculate the damage.
Also, you don’t necessarily need to aim up, aiming at any edge on the side or top of the tank is usually enough to only have young flame particles contacting the tank, maximizing damage.
1:46
"Healer: Child Predator"
classic mvm experience
As dude above me said, classic tf2 moment
I once outdamaged a Phlog pyro on my team by using the Bushwacka/Carbine combo. The key is to dedicate credits to the Carbine alongside the Bushwacka.
Usually I max out the fire rate so I can build Crikey the quickest, and put a couple of points into both magazine capacity and total ammo capacity, minimizing the need to reload or hunt for an ammo box.
This combo, paired with the Heatmaker, is in my opinion the best dual-purpose Sniper loadout. Heatmaker for regular bot-bashing, and Carbine/Bushwacka for helping out with tank-busting.
if you outdamaged a phlog pyro, their damage upgrades were likely poor or non.
@@carolthepyro899 Most likely. I think they were using their mmph crits, but for some reason they just didn't keep up with me.
or just dump points into your sniper, yknow, the primary of the SNIPER class. snipers should not be on tank no matter how much damage theyre outputting, their job is to kill uber medics and giants while the rest of the team deals with tanks
@@cellbuilder2 even with mmph crits, if they were dying or hadnt upgraded their damage enough (or not using the flame particle trick), they were doing poor damage regardless.
@@sarahh08 if they’re good enough and can exploit god spots, sniper's job is to kill everything in the game except tanks and bosses
1:50 minicrits can actually still ramp up iirc, so when you're boosted to that you'll still want to get as close as you can.
Full crits don't have ramp up, so good to go from distance.
“I said tank bust not tank Bukake.”
Best channel on the planet.
3:27 "I said 'tank bust' and not 'tank bukkake'"
LOL that was surprising to hear
Some people really need to see this video
Seen so many new and semi experienced players doing big mistakes for tank busting
And of course they just ignore you all the time, even if you tell them how to be more optimal
AWH YEEE BRAWL MUTE CITY! The best dam song in the smashbros library!
Hey, found your content a while ago and started to play MvM again, and I'm having a hard time finding anyone talking about each of the classes upgrades and what's considered a meta upgrade or any potential bugged upgrades. I think much like this video that was very helpful (especially not knowing the dmg reduction that the minigun has to tanks), a video briefly describing what upgrades for each class are the most important relative to others would be neat. Funny and informative as always Mr. Banana.
Check out the pride_ expert mvm video its a pretty great guide even if not in expert mvm
A guy called 'Underscore Gaming' has really good guides for most of the classes (Scout, Soldier, Pyro, Engineer, Sniper and Spy) here on UA-cam. They all come with all the necessary upgrade advice. Highly recommend watching them.
8:58 pun intended?
What about a tank busting tier list involving every weapon? Using the same combos get boring after a certain while, so it would be nice to know what else is available and what isn't
Epic Rap Battles of History: Begger's Bazooka vs Minecraft
Oh god, I think I'm the heavy at 6:21
Great video as always Weezy! Although I have a question about Righteous Bison if you don't mind, one of my friend told me that it's extremely powerful against tanks, so I made an experiment and was surprised by the result because it works fantastically with crit canteens. So I want to know what's your opinion on them? Are my friend wrong and should I use it more often?
its pierce is coded weirdly so when it hits something really big it hits it multiple times
Generally, you do a really good job of giving ample proof for why you think things are the best option. You didn't do that for the Dragon's Fury/Phlog here. You just said "Other people claim this, they are wrong."
Why isn't the Fury up there with the Phlog?
Fun fact: if you max out firing speed on spy's stock revolver and you get crits, you can acctually deal so much damage to the tank
Yeah I remember in wave 666 when the dozen or so tanks spawned since I had so much money I would use the DB + max upgrades + crit canteens and do a decent amount of damage.
You can deal more damage to the tanks as Pyro if you attack the treads and face slightly upwards (probably because of Damage Ramp-up/Fall-off)
If we actually get an update for TF2, I'd love to see MvM get two things: A brand new Tour and a new Robot. That being... Mini-Tanks that are able to produce quite a bit of damage. It would be the first non re-skin of any of the classes (besides normal tank) for a robot. Brand new hitbox, sound, weapons and animations. Maybe make it like the scarab from the Halo series.
Also, make Heavy a little better on the minigun damage. Like you can do what the launchers do, increase your damage for four ticks on ALL miniguns, including Brass Beast, it would go up by 25% for... Around 300 per tick.
heres a tip for sticky traps as demoman:
when you detonate the stickies they will deal less damage if the tank is on top of the trap, why is this a thing? i dont know but dont detonate while the tank is on top of the trap, maybe earlier, maybe later but not when the tank is on top of them
That bushwacka carbine combo has actually saved some waves
Tanks for this info
I'm not sure I buy the traditional "The Heavy is more valuable up front" line anymore.
The Heavy is slow and fat and often quite vulnerable to certain types of robots without support from his teammates. Sometimes, shooting the tank at point-blank range with a 75% damage penalty but also maximum ramp-up is still more efficient than fighting a monster giant robot that you can't 1v1.
Also, many teams struggle with tank busting, so I give that priority over the old Milk n' Mark in most situations. Especially if the only person using the Milk is a Heavy who's already being pocketed by a Kritz Medic.
Finally, I think that you were a bit harsh on The Spy. As was I in my Spy video. The revolvers are actually kind of okay, especially if you have a few credits to spare. Given The Spy's specialized nature, sometimes there isn't really anything more important for him to be doing, and he can give some decent help with tanks instead of waiting around for the next Giant to spawn.
Wait. You messed up the Pyro tank trick explanation, too. You want the flame particles to NOT hit twice. Hitting twice is what makes them do less damage because the lower-damage second hit overrides the first.
Babe wake up new weezy upload
what about pope demo? from experience pipe demo seemed to do decent
The bison is actually fairly good at tank busting from the front or back, as you can hit the tank several times either way, and potentially hit other robots behind it to add some extra damage. It's a meme strat, but one that can actually work fairly cheaply with minimal team coordination.
9:02 Dude, where are you getting these analogies from?
I was on a random boot camp and i got so desperate that i just upgraded some stock flamethrower damage and full swing speed on my melee
2 crit canteen and i helped my team pretty well
0:13 the one exception is example, which has tanks only with 1,000 hp
Me and my friends found the bison strar while trolling. And now it's our meta.
Wait you sound suspiciously similar to gohar… HMMMM UNLESS,no it couldn’t be, but he gives information like gohar! OH MY GOD
if you want "the best strategy" for spy, to bust tank I would say it's crit on kill with knife, and shotrate on revolver.
As much as others are still better option. I believe it's best strategy for Spy for it. (so you stab bot in the back, and shoot magazine of ?x120 dmg into the tank)
Best part of the video 0:00 - 11:20
4:19
I... Did...
Did I miss your reasonings for the Dragon's Fury being worse or did you just not mention them...?
Because I'd say the Dragon's Fury is better for giants, and I'll take that tradeoff, being SLIGHTLY worse against the tank.
It's not a bad option and you cannot tell me otherwise.
I will only agree that it is not optimal.
HONEEEEY, NEW WEEZY VIDEO!!
finally, the perfect guide for bustin
3:25 TANK KAMIKAZE
The crits canteen can also work for stock revolver spies
Since there is no a damage penalty
Although youre right
Spy is a pick class not a damage dealer
The bison melts through tanks when maxed out with crits. Really good if there is multiple tanks stacked in a line.
I agree an Engi with Widowmaker is one of the best to deal with tanks along with Buff banner Beggar's soldier
I have shread tanks on wave 666 with both of them and well
They are hella good at the job
Would phlog pyro with kritz medic be good?
Advice for spy players:
Although its not much, you can POSSIBLY do a bit more damage via buying the "Crit on kill" for the knife and using your gun on the tank afterwards, with max clip size, firing speed, etc...you'll be able to dish out SOME kind of damage to the tank...so if you have the credits to spend and there are tanks, this method will let you at least do a BIT more contribution to taking out a tank than just poking it with your butter knife alone
I often use Pyro for MVM, Phlog and as secondary either the gas passer or the detonator. Powerjack when there's no spies and homewrecker when I see possibility of spies. I always concentrate myself on lighting on fire the scout waves and finishing them off, When soldiers or demos come its a matter of flare spam... as for the giants its a matter of just spinning around them and keeping them away from obliterating me
For the giants, I will drop you a useful hint. You can let the tank push you around since it won't kill you, but you gotta AIM UP in order for more flames to hit the tank and increase the total DMG output, I always combine it with reestock canteens and spam mmph at it. That way I end up tankbusting on my own while my friends focus on destroying the support of the tank... that if they're good enough. Otherwise I end up flanked by bomb carrying scouts and bam it's all over for me.
hmm I do wonder, in an event of TF2 item server being unavailable and how do you think being limited to stock loadout performs in MvM?
Stock Grenade launcher + tide turner + skull cutter is my favorite way to play demo in mvm
Hey Weezy, I was wondering if you could maybe in the future do a guide of how to complete Mecha Engine? I’ve noticed there isn’t any sort of guide at all and who better to cover it, then the king of MVM, himself!
I’m looking for something hopefully in depth as opposed to: “Just make sure you have a sniper” but I know you’re not going to make it that simple because you’re good with guides!
There is also the bison as well. But only use it if you have another soldier with a banner.
In case you guys don't believe me, try it out in solo wave first and then try it in groups. I was able to deal 75k dmg on tank with medic kritz on an intermediate rottenburg level while everyone else was around 15k.
Why don’t the robots sneak behind the map to the bomb place thingy? Are they dumb?
I think that 3 pyros with phlog and ammo boxes are good for those tanks
I always tend to give myself 2 or 3 crit canteens (depending on money and size of wave), then do at least one damage and max ammo upgrade, then try to prioritize damage upgrade over max ammo, and max them out both as best I can.
It is worth noting, that especially on later waves (specifically hamlet wave 7) you have a lot of credits to play with. since the tank is a building and therefore cannot be lit on fire. making its base damage 75. With max damage upgrades, ammo, ect. also crit canteens deals 450 damage. when i personally tested this with a friend (him using max damage phlog with crits and me using max DF) i did out damage him by quite a lot. this is only good on the later waves though because the dragons fury single shots dont mix well with the swarms of bots in mvm. so unless its a wave with majority of tanks and almost nothing else, just use the phlog. wheezy is right, in most situations the phlog is better (espscially with its spray and pray rather than the DF single shot) but if you have the crits and money to back it up, the DF can absolutely clear house.
the df's better tankbusting is not worth the amount of stuff you have to juggle when you're using it seriously.
you have to deal with:
zero crowd control
having to aim
ping
getting reflected by pyros
ONLY SINGLE TARGET DAMAGE
no mmmph
your survivability gets cut in half because you're not killing as many robots, therefore HoK rate reduces
unreliable airblast
no on-demand ubercharge
more reliance on the gas passer
and a whole other shitstorm of attributes that i can't name
just use the phlog (or backburner on mannhattan) lmao
When I was still learning MvM, I arrogantly decided to try going Demoknight for funsies. I was lucky enough that I had gotten into a match with a bunch of chill guys who didn't mind. I went Eyelander, Bootlegger with it, and wound up going mvp and carrying the entire match by accident.
Granted, this was not a Tour. It was just Boot Camp. But still. I was super surprised to see just how weirdly good the Demoknight was at killing the tank.
Yeah, airstrike is my go too for mvm soldier in general, the base jumper turns you into an orbital rapid fire satellite
4:41 real gamers use detonator
I remember there was an airstrike soldier in a team. Dude was getting shat on for using it meanwhile I was rocking a Vaccinator.
Didn't really communicate with him but rather prioritized pocketing him until I maxed out canteen specialist and crit canteens.
It was beautiful to see a tank become scrap.