Stuff available for Morty: TM08 Rock Smash TM10 Hidden Power TM13 Snore TM20 Endure TM43 Detect HM03 Surf HM04 Strength BlackBelt Magnet Mint Berry Sharp Beak Rare Candy x2 While there is a lot of other items one could conceivably pick up and sell, I don't think the Game Corner TMs or the Return TM are "reasonable" still. Might be worth looking at for the next section, though.
Yeah, I don't think those TMs are really "reasonable" until we're most of the way through Johto at least, but I need to see how much money we can bring in. .
@GSCPokemonChallenges It might be reasonable pre-Gym 5, since you get lots of loot with Surf and you have one of the largest bloc of mandatory trainers with the Rocket Hideout (which you should probably do pre-Gym 5, regardless of which Gym is Gym 5). Even if it doesn't make sense, you can definitely afford it after the Radio Tower section, before Gym 8. Random question: Are you planning on treating 5-7 as one section? Seems like there'd be a really short section or 2 if they were all split. And some Pokémon will certainly want to tackle different leaders first. Another random question: Have you considered allowing Pokerus? Won't have an effect in this section, but could have significant ramifications post-both Rocket sections.
TBH i think they should add a Sudowoodo Evolution that is Rock / Grass. After all moss, mushrooms and other plants sometimes grow on top of rocks and I think it would be a nice message, that sudowoodo faked it till it made it.
Okay, to heck with it. I'm calling the clean sweep this time. Igglybuff et al. can go Nightmare Strats, which means they'll inevitably win eventually. Poliwag doesn't have Nightmare but Sleep is still OP and it will win eventually. The rest will all have enough options to push through. Since I'm predicting all pass, I'm not going to note every single Pokémon, just the ones that surprise me. Igglybuff didn't even need Nightmare. But it has the option for later, too, if it runs into a wall - like perhaps against Jasmine. I do wonder if that will work against Chuck, though, I'm not sure if Igglybuff will survive one attack with its low defense. I didn't expect Venomoth to have so much trouble, though I guess being Fire/Fairy type doesn't really give it a great matchup. But I forgot how garbage its moveset is in this game. Golbat...well, I knew it had a garbage moveset, but I figured with Crobat's success it wouldn't be THAT much harder. Guess I was wrong. Yeah, I think Unown is going to end in the next episode. It was almost fluky that it made it through in the first place.
It's getting hard to imagine anything losing to Whitney at this point. There are a lot of ways to deal with Rollout, and since Normal is never super effective against anything, Stomp is actually quite manageable. I think if anything goes down , it might just be Unown....
@@GSCPokemonChallenges I think Unown will fall. It has literally no options if Hidden Power doesn't do it, and it would take pretty epic misplay from Whitney to not take out Unown in 4 turns (I'm estimating that it'll be a 4-hit KO, but it could even be 5). I doubt it survives 3 turns of Rollout, and even a turn-3 miss probably leads into Milk Drink and then Stomp.
I've done some calculations, and worked out the Base Speeds needed for speed tying or outspeeding Miltank per experience group. Here they are: Slow Experience Group: 115 to speed tie, 118 to outspeed Medium Slow Experience Group: 88 to speed tie, 90 to outspeed Medium Fast Experience Group: 100 to speed tie, 103 to outspeed Fast Experience Group: 94 to speed tie, 96 to outspeed
That's awesome, thank you! Slow level up Pokemon are going to have a really hard time outspeeding sue to their lower levels, while Medium Slow Pokemon. have the easiest time - that might be the biggest hidden advantage of the level up groups going forward too!
idk why Primeape would struggle against Morty, giving it Dig is a no-brainer. also the Water types will all get Surf for Morty, which is nice. A few non Water types also get Surf and might enjoy it as a better coverage option, especially against Steelix later. speaking of that, Jasmine will be a nasty wall. the Thunder Wave loving Magnemite leading into the physical tank Steelix with the devastatingly powerful (though inaccurate) Iron Tail. Water, Fire, Fighting, and Ground types should be fine. or anything that gets Surf/Dig/Fire Punch. but anything lacking those options is going to have a bad time. Definitely a lot of Pokemon are going to want Jasmine treated as the 7th Gym Leader for all intents and purposes so they get all that Rocket experience first.
The issue is Curse whole underground and potentially not getting enough turns to KO, and I'll need to see if we outspeed the Gengar or not. Surf will be a massive improvement for a lot of Pokemon to carry through Jasmine at least, and honestly she is the 7th Gym Leader in my mind. I still need to solidify my plans for the middlegame with Chuck Jasmine and Pryce.
I'm enjoying this series so far! Now I have no idea how you'll be dealing with the post game since you can pretty much do the mandatory gym trainers and the gym leaders in almost any order apart from Blue being the last one, but I would imagine next to none of the Pokemon would fail at any of those first 7 gym leaders if they have the levels, but maybe the slow level up ones would struggle at some point, but we have a long way to go before the post game! 😊😊😊
Yeah, Kanto is basically just a big Victory lap, but there's a lot of little things to do. Most likely I will clear some subset of Gyms then Blue then Red. It kind of depends on how many Pokemon remain at that point
Imo Venomoth, despite being a Ghost/Fighting type, should count as a failure. I believe that "crit + opponent self hitting from confusion every time" is simply too much luck to count.
At this point I'm beginning to think that Morty and Jasmine will be the main gatekeepers to the late game. After that it's usually Clair and the E4 with an occasional appearance from the Koffing gang Rocket Executive. Meanwhile, the Rival usually tends to fall off hard after the 4th gym, though Magneton may force some mons to keep Mud-Slap around just to deal with it that would otherwise get walled. Also Hidden Power is a total game changer if you can pick the type coverage you need and still be able to pass the early game gauntlet.
I'm inclined to agree. I imagine some rate cases where Chuck might pose a major threat, but otherwise it's Jasmine and Morty. Clair could be rough for some Pokemon, but then the E4 is where I think we start losing a whole lot of challengers.
I will go back to test, but I'm not just thinking about Whitney with this one. I'm more thining about the long game due to what I found with Crobat's full-game run, that it might be better to have more move flexibility in later sections than just the best move against whitney right now.
I want to see some pokemon fail because I'm making a chart of where each pokemon failed, and the contrast doesn't work as well if there isn't a Whitney section
SPOILERS . . . . . I saw this video and immediately skipped to the part where Poliwag made Whitney cry after stomping her extra hard. #PoliwagBrosUnite
Yeah you missed the first 2 consecutive Rollouts on Clefairly with Wigglytuff, for a 1% chance to miss 2 in a row since Rollout is 90% accurate, that sucks.
Yeah I Roar moves second, so no chance to phase before Curse. We could reset for a move other than Curse and then Roar it to get a better matchup, but it would take a while
I feel that going to the light house is border line cheating. Grinding in the next town feels like it goes against the entire minimum battle. I was all for the underground trainsers since they are in goldenrod and in the lower levels, but the lighthouse is in the wrong zone.
It is minimum battles to complete the game, not minimum battles to get past each individual gym leader. I know each subsection kind of alludes to each gym leader being the minimum battle goal, but this is not the case. It is simply for breaking up the series in watchable sections
@kaseywalton yeah I get that, but I still feel like it's not in the spirit of the challenge. It's like before gym 5 you can do lake of rage, all trainers in chucks gym, rocket plotline, then either do chuck or pryce. Is that really what we're doing here? I just feel like if you're basically not under leveled, then what's even the point of doing minimum battles?
@@FifthPromise he will end up doing all the required battles either way and no additional battles. I don't think he will change the rules at this point in the series
@@FifthPromiseWhat it means is that he'll probably roll a bunch of segments together. So Chuck, Pryce, and Jasmine will probably be in the same episode, with Jasmine being the "final boss" of that part of the game for most mons.
Was surprised Venomoth struggled despite being a Steel/Fighting type
It's truly incredible, but I think Miltank is a Fire/Ice type, so it makes sense
@GSCPokemonChallenges it's incredible to see so many dual type Pokemon in Gen 2! 😊😊😊
But I thought Venomoth was a Dark/Dragon type.
@markusjagering7449 I thought it was ghost/psychic type for the longest time. That was in gen 1. R.I.P my memory. 😢😢😢😁😁😁
I love that Whitney's main weakness is her own strategy.
I also love that you did the Venomoth gag. Poketuberception.
Yeah, Rage, Fury Cutter and Rollout are great Whotney-beaters
Stuff available for Morty:
TM08 Rock Smash
TM10 Hidden Power
TM13 Snore
TM20 Endure
TM43 Detect
HM03 Surf
HM04 Strength
BlackBelt
Magnet
Mint Berry
Sharp Beak
Rare Candy x2
While there is a lot of other items one could conceivably pick up and sell, I don't think the Game Corner TMs or the Return TM are "reasonable" still. Might be worth looking at for the next section, though.
Yeah, I don't think those TMs are really "reasonable" until we're most of the way through Johto at least, but I need to see how much money we can bring in. .
@GSCPokemonChallenges It might be reasonable pre-Gym 5, since you get lots of loot with Surf and you have one of the largest bloc of mandatory trainers with the Rocket Hideout (which you should probably do pre-Gym 5, regardless of which Gym is Gym 5).
Even if it doesn't make sense, you can definitely afford it after the Radio Tower section, before Gym 8.
Random question: Are you planning on treating 5-7 as one section? Seems like there'd be a really short section or 2 if they were all split. And some Pokémon will certainly want to tackle different leaders first.
Another random question: Have you considered allowing Pokerus? Won't have an effect in this section, but could have significant ramifications post-both Rocket sections.
TBH i think they should add a Sudowoodo Evolution that is Rock / Grass. After all moss, mushrooms and other plants sometimes grow on top of rocks and I think it would be a nice message, that sudowoodo faked it till it made it.
I agree, that would be amazing
Okay, to heck with it. I'm calling the clean sweep this time. Igglybuff et al. can go Nightmare Strats, which means they'll inevitably win eventually. Poliwag doesn't have Nightmare but Sleep is still OP and it will win eventually. The rest will all have enough options to push through.
Since I'm predicting all pass, I'm not going to note every single Pokémon, just the ones that surprise me.
Igglybuff didn't even need Nightmare. But it has the option for later, too, if it runs into a wall - like perhaps against Jasmine. I do wonder if that will work against Chuck, though, I'm not sure if Igglybuff will survive one attack with its low defense.
I didn't expect Venomoth to have so much trouble, though I guess being Fire/Fairy type doesn't really give it a great matchup. But I forgot how garbage its moveset is in this game.
Golbat...well, I knew it had a garbage moveset, but I figured with Crobat's success it wouldn't be THAT much harder. Guess I was wrong.
Yeah, I think Unown is going to end in the next episode. It was almost fluky that it made it through in the first place.
It's getting hard to imagine anything losing to Whitney at this point. There are a lot of ways to deal with Rollout, and since Normal is never super effective against anything, Stomp is actually quite manageable.
I think if anything goes down , it might just be Unown....
@@GSCPokemonChallenges I think Unown will fall. It has literally no options if Hidden Power doesn't do it, and it would take pretty epic misplay from Whitney to not take out Unown in 4 turns (I'm estimating that it'll be a 4-hit KO, but it could even be 5). I doubt it survives 3 turns of Rollout, and even a turn-3 miss probably leads into Milk Drink and then Stomp.
I've done some calculations, and worked out the Base Speeds needed for speed tying or outspeeding Miltank per experience group. Here they are:
Slow Experience Group: 115 to speed tie, 118 to outspeed
Medium Slow Experience Group: 88 to speed tie, 90 to outspeed
Medium Fast Experience Group: 100 to speed tie, 103 to outspeed
Fast Experience Group: 94 to speed tie, 96 to outspeed
That's awesome, thank you! Slow level up Pokemon are going to have a really hard time outspeeding sue to their lower levels, while Medium Slow Pokemon. have the easiest time - that might be the biggest hidden advantage of the level up groups going forward too!
the correct typing is clearly Ghost/Ghost, we just had Halloween and Venomoth is one of those who dont pack up right away
Damn, I never thought about giving it double mono-types....
... Well that's me not going to bed for the next 1 hour 38 minutes and 48 seconds 😁
Oh I know that feeling 😆
Appreciate you!
idk why Primeape would struggle against Morty, giving it Dig is a no-brainer.
also the Water types will all get Surf for Morty, which is nice. A few non Water types also get Surf and might enjoy it as a better coverage option, especially against Steelix later.
speaking of that, Jasmine will be a nasty wall. the Thunder Wave loving Magnemite leading into the physical tank Steelix with the devastatingly powerful (though inaccurate) Iron Tail. Water, Fire, Fighting, and Ground types should be fine. or anything that gets Surf/Dig/Fire Punch. but anything lacking those options is going to have a bad time.
Definitely a lot of Pokemon are going to want Jasmine treated as the 7th Gym Leader for all intents and purposes so they get all that Rocket experience first.
The issue is Curse whole underground and potentially not getting enough turns to KO, and I'll need to see if we outspeed the Gengar or not.
Surf will be a massive improvement for a lot of Pokemon to carry through Jasmine at least, and honestly she is the 7th Gym Leader in my mind. I still need to solidify my plans for the middlegame with Chuck Jasmine and Pryce.
I'm enjoying this series so far! Now I have no idea how you'll be dealing with the post game since you can pretty much do the mandatory gym trainers and the gym leaders in almost any order apart from Blue being the last one, but I would imagine next to none of the Pokemon would fail at any of those first 7 gym leaders if they have the levels, but maybe the slow level up ones would struggle at some point, but we have a long way to go before the post game! 😊😊😊
Yeah, Kanto is basically just a big Victory lap, but there's a lot of little things to do. Most likely I will clear some subset of Gyms then Blue then Red. It kind of depends on how many Pokemon remain at that point
Them People don't know what they are talking about: Venomoth is clearly a Psychic/Dragon Pokémon!!!
I'm pretty sure it's coloration means it's Normal/Fairy
@@GSCPokemonChallenges That is after Gen 6 though. I am pretty sure it used to be Psychic / Dragon ;)
Imo Venomoth, despite being a Ghost/Fighting type, should count as a failure. I believe that "crit + opponent self hitting from confusion every time" is simply too much luck to count.
Honestly, I'm inclined to agree with you. I was about to give up when it just magically got the luck to progress
Kind of surprised at how many mon's have made it through Whitney. The amount of TM's make a huge difference though.
This
At this point I'm beginning to think that Morty and Jasmine will be the main gatekeepers to the late game. After that it's usually Clair and the E4 with an occasional appearance from the Koffing gang Rocket Executive. Meanwhile, the Rival usually tends to fall off hard after the 4th gym, though Magneton may force some mons to keep Mud-Slap around just to deal with it that would otherwise get walled.
Also Hidden Power is a total game changer if you can pick the type coverage you need and still be able to pass the early game gauntlet.
I'm inclined to agree. I imagine some rate cases where Chuck might pose a major threat, but otherwise it's Jasmine and Morty. Clair could be rough for some Pokemon, but then the E4 is where I think we start losing a whole lot of challengers.
Golbat with screech supersonic swift can make it through Whitney without return without that much trouble
I will go back to test, but I'm not just thinking about Whitney with this one. I'm more thining about the long game due to what I found with Crobat's full-game run, that it might be better to have more move flexibility in later sections than just the best move against whitney right now.
Also, Arcanine is good boy. Much belly rubs for the good boy
Henry loves his rubs
I want to see some pokemon fail because I'm making a chart of where each pokemon failed, and the contrast doesn't work as well if there isn't a Whitney section
I think we might get one in there....
I hope using their Goldberry here doesn't come back to haunt the Pokemon that did, it's such a powerful held item at lower levels
Yeah, as mentioned in the first video of this section, the Bgt Catching Content technically provides infinite Gold Berries by finishing in 3rd place
SPOILERS
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I saw this video and immediately skipped to the part where Poliwag made Whitney cry after stomping her extra hard.
#PoliwagBrosUnite
That is incredible and swaggalicious. 😎
Ah yes, another round of you mess with the cow, you get the ow
Nice! But mostly we are giving ow to the cow....
Jigglypuff
Miltank comes out: 😡😡😡
Jigglypuff one shots Miltank with Rollout
Whitney: 😢😢😢😭😭😭🙄🙄🙄
Me: 🤣🤣🤣
Yeah, Miltank doesn't like the enemy Rollouts 😂
@GSCPokemonChallenges yeah it's okay for Whitney to use Rollout, but not us. Man, double standards exist even in the Pokemon world. 🤣🤣🤣
How do I become a channel member? Delibird is one of my all times
Poor Venomoth, being Bird/??? Typing really made it struggle here...
Yeah, it's very hard to be effective when the game doesn't even identify your secondary typing ... must be Cursed
Yeah you missed the first 2 consecutive Rollouts on Clefairly with Wigglytuff, for a 1% chance to miss 2 in a row since Rollout is 90% accurate, that sucks.
Yeah, bad luck is bound to happen here and there in this series
Much like Cleffa, Igglybuff is OP 😁
Babies are far too powerful 😂
Just a little note, the outro music on this one seems a bit too loud.
Let me check that. I used a setting in DaVinci Resolve to optimize volume for UA-cam, but it may not have worked as I expected
Gen III has a rock/grass type, the fossil pokemon Lileep and Cradilly
I need to start RSE Challenges asap to start doing those runs! Imagine they get through Roxanne at least
been waiting on this one 😁😁
Thank you for being here, Brols!
couldn't you roar the haunter on the rival's team just to push the curse farther into the fight?
Iirc Roar has negative priority, so that wouldn't work
@belodie oh it had negative priority even in gen 2?
Yeah I Roar moves second, so no chance to phase before Curse. We could reset for a move other than Curse and then Roar it to get a better matchup, but it would take a while
Venomoth is obviously fighting/steel
Gonna have to disagree, it's actually bird/ground
I feel that going to the light house is border line cheating. Grinding in the next town feels like it goes against the entire minimum battle. I was all for the underground trainsers since they are in goldenrod and in the lower levels, but the lighthouse is in the wrong zone.
It is minimum battles to complete the game, not minimum battles to get past each individual gym leader. I know each subsection kind of alludes to each gym leader being the minimum battle goal, but this is not the case. It is simply for breaking up the series in watchable sections
@kaseywalton yeah I get that, but I still feel like it's not in the spirit of the challenge. It's like before gym 5 you can do lake of rage, all trainers in chucks gym, rocket plotline, then either do chuck or pryce. Is that really what we're doing here? I just feel like if you're basically not under leveled, then what's even the point of doing minimum battles?
@@FifthPromise he will end up doing all the required battles either way and no additional battles. I don't think he will change the rules at this point in the series
@@kaseywalton oh I don't expect him to. I just voice my opinion about the format.
@@FifthPromiseWhat it means is that he'll probably roll a bunch of segments together. So Chuck, Pryce, and Jasmine will probably be in the same episode, with Jasmine being the "final boss" of that part of the game for most mons.
teo will read this
How did you know!?!??!?
venomoth is fairy dark
pretty sure you meant fire water
@GSCPokemonChallenges 🤣
Venomoth is dark/ghost duh!
OMG, how did I miss that?
@GSCPokemonChallenges hope the baby is doing well!
TTC345 please come back!
We're watching to see Poliwag beat Red on minimum battles, not see how many Whitney beats.
Seriously though, love the series.
Thank you for your patience and swag!
I have to assume the people upset that so many Pokemon have passed just bought into the hype of Whitney’s difficulty.
I mean, she does hype herself and then cry when she inevitably loses over and over again....