Ultima IV Narrative Analysis [Part 2]
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- Опубліковано 22 вер 2023
- Watch part 1: • Ultima IV: Quest of th...
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Part 2 of my analytical playthrough of Ultima IV: Quest of the Avatar. Watch the first part first if you haven't!
Big thanks to my supporters - especially those at the Buy Me a Sandwich 9.99 level, Drakflaz and MoreLiberty1, for helping to make these videos possible. If you like what I’m doing and want to help me out, you can become a channel member to for as little as 2.99 a month. Can’t afford it, just subscribe to the channel, like the videos, and spread the word, that helps too.
Michael Coorlim is a science fiction author and game developer.
You can find my work here: www.mcoorlim.com
If you appreciated the video and want to buy me a coffee: ko-fi.com/mcoorlim - Ігри
![The First Computer RPGs [1975]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/MXCeofdBPXo/mqdefault.jpg)
"Never judge someone who mispronounces a word. It means they learned it by *reading*." - anon.
These are like little presents that pop up in my subscriptions.
I imagine this would not be the first time you’ve been invited to stfu today 🤔
Best game ever made in my opinion. So many childhood memories. Thank you for giving this your attention.
It's a very important point in CRPG development.
"what is the water in the context of the game... is it just sentient water?"
this reminded me of an ancient dnd story, from a magazine back in 70s, someone was writing an article about languages available in the game, and how they rule what has a language (anything for which a magic item of Control was available, was what they decided on, so animals have their own languages).
Anyway, the author mentioned some smart alec player who decided to take Wall as a language, and ttied to talk to the walls of a dungeon to find out what was on the other side, so he had the wall reply "no idea, im plastered".
One way to gain justice was to A)ttack evil monsters you see on the world map.
Gain compassion by letting non evil monsters flee as well as giving to beggars.
Sacrifice by donating blood and lot.
Humility answer non proudly.
I loved this game and the lore you talked about in the video.
Quite a lovely video and interesting analysis!
I do have some corrections on the mechanics, as a speedrunner:
- Fleeing non-evil creatures doesn't lower valor at all. If you flee a fight with an evil creature, you get that little "Battle is lost" message in the info section, that tells you you lost valor. If you flee a fight with a non-evil creature, you don't get that message, and you don't lose valor.
- You wouldn't lose compassion for killing a non-evil creature, but you gain some for letting it run, it's true.
- If you get caught in battles by the shrine of humility because of not using the silver horn, the daemons arrive in packs of eight. Beating all eight groups ends the fights, until you step south again.
- Using the skull doesn't reset virtues, it just costs five points off each one. Similarly, breaking the skull adds ten to each virtue.
- I have never seen a Dispell fail, other than for lack of MP.
- You don't get kicked out if you answer the stair questions wrong in the Abyss, you just have to use the stone again. And you're allowed two wrong answers in the final quiz.
Looking forward to the next one. :)
Thank you for the corrections! It's been a long time since I last played the game, and most of these are very difficult to measure in play.
In this playthrough, however, the Dispel spell did in fact fail frequently enough that I would have to sit there and cast it several rounds in a row until it "took" even with full mana. Perhaps it's a port difference?
@@MichaelCoorlim I've never seen that in dozens of runs. I even know the exact number of dispells I need (14) to complete the whole run, with no accounting for risk of failure.
My only thoughts are lack of MP, misplacement of the caster (not right up against the field), or there's a Zorn in the room somewhere negating all magic. I'd be very curious to see the situation, if you still have the recording.
@@organMike I'll look to see how much of it I ended up recording, but this was virtually every case where I had to dispel a field in the abyss - I ended up needing to leave and come back with a lot more dispells, then having casters cycle in and out to keep brute forcing it when one of them ran out of MP for the spell.
This was, I should mention, not how I remembered it working, so it took me by surprise as well.
The analytical playthroughs make this channel special. And these games are slogs on the best of days, so you doing this just gives us a chance to either witness or relive them without the torture of the grind.
Thanks! Appreciate it!
@@MichaelCoorlim These games held a special place in my heart as a kid, but I have no desire to go through them again. Every other person who's posted playthroughs of these games has not held a candle to how well you explain everything and how enjoyable you make these videos to watch. I can't wait for the later games, and others for that matter. Keep up the good work, and I'll keep spreading the word of your channel.
Since you asked for pronunciation corrections, it's "ark-uh-PEL-uh-go".
Thanks!
Back in the day we had a lot of awe, wonder and wandering but not a lot of game finishing, this is neat to watch.
A couple of other notes:
The Apple 2 version didn't have the fancy pictures at the shrines, just simple line drawings of the runes, and certainly no infinity symbols. When I played it as a kid, I think I mistranslated one of the runes and that threw me off - I'm pretty sure that I didn't solve the final puzzle by myself. The thing that I missed that seemed obvious in hindsight was that the letters were supposed to go in the order of the virtues that they were associated with as they appear on the ankh in the status window, top to bottom. I still have some old notes from my first play through, not sure how I missed that.
I had a very similar reaction to yours with the Abyss - I had the clue book with maps of the levels in it and thought "oh, that doesn't look too hard". How wrong I was. It was a major jump in difficulty from any of the other dungeons. I tried it once and got stuck - the second time I went back with 99 of a lot of spells pre-mixed and 99 of all of the reagents. It's like the game was saying, "oh, yeah, we were going easy on you before, it could have all been like this.)
It wasn't explicitly stated in this video, but I remember the day the I realized that the "colors" of the virtues line up with the principles and their combinations and how cool I thought that was. Blue (Honesty/Truth) and Yellow (Love/Compassion) make Green (Justice/T+C). White is all colors, black is none.
I don't remember if you said it while you were grinding, but each of the companions has a max threshold to how high they can push each stat, and that again ties back to their virtue and its principles (INT/Truth, DEX/Love, STR/Valor) which I also thought was kind of cool back when.
Also, I think I read somewhere that the game was partially inspired by The Wizard of Oz: The Scarecrow wants a brain (Int/Truth), the Tin Woodsman a heart (Love) and the Lion, courage. Kind of a neat little thing, I think.
I just finished the video. I've never seen the ending before. Thank you for your time and dedication.
There's this interaction, I think it was in Ultima VII, where a guy will give you history and go on and on in a way that seems to be designed to be boring but you can ask for more history.
Then MORE.
THEN EVEN MORE.
Then there's mad cackling as you demand even more and the guy runs away.
Anyways I feel that way about these videos. EVEN MORE. BURY ME IN LORE.
Alllll the looooorrrrreee.
I remember a similar interaction in the original Balder's Gate, where your PC begins asking for the lore of the titular city of Baldur's Gate, in increasingly obsessive and creepy ways. The influence of the Ultima series truly knows no bounds
18:45 i find the narrative analysis fine . I think you HAVE captured the wonder of exploration , even though like you say , that isn't the focus of the video . the sheer level of detail in Ultima's worlds speak for themselves when laid out flat like this . there are so many steps and details and processes and rules ! it shouldn't be hard to imagine how uncomfortable it would be to uncover this for yourself . and IIRC , you showed us the maps and explained the difficulty of approachinh it for the first time and explained your own experience level .
if people want to recapture the wonder of exploration , these games are available to play and take not much resources to do so !! also the wonder of exploration is better found in the act of discovering something you want to discover for yourself . Ultima stands as a Genre Exemplar yet it is flawed , it's perfect for analysis and improvement since not all of its ideas have yet been understood by game designers . you'll know if it's worth playing if you really want to play it .
I didn't have the money to play these games back then (and frankly I don't think I'd have the patience now, heh) so for me these are a wonderful window into a piece of RPG history I didn't get to experience.
Thanks again ❤
Honestly I was 8 when this came out so I played it for the first time lonngggg after release.
You know the one thing that I wish was covered here? I'd love a brief diatribe down to the details of how each of the different virtues fit together into the "sacred geometry" you briefly mention, as I always thought that was particularly interesting. Each of the eight virtues corresponding to a particular combination of the three principles (Sacrifice being the Courage to give of yourself out of Love, Justice being the Love of Truth, Honor being the Courage to live by your Truth even when difficult), and so on, plus the stones of Compassion (Love), Valor (Courage) and Honesty (Truth) each corresponding to primary colors, while the stones of the combination virtues each corresponding with the secondary color you get by combining them--plus the symbol of the Codex itself aligning with the three central rings as core principles, and each line aligned so it touches the core principles that make up that virtue, with Spirituality as the dot in the center that touches all three and Humility as the enclosing ring which encompasses them all but touches none of them. I always thought the mathematical perfection of that was one of the more interesting parts of the game world to me.
That's a good topic for a shorter video - I've been thinking about it. It's on my slate of "possible future videos."
Sailing into the wind isn’t even really a problem in the real world. A sail is a kind of wing that creates a low pressure area behind it to pull the vessel along. If anything, sailing with the wind is a chore because you don’t feel any breeze while you bob around in a big wet car
That just makes it more frustrating.
I knew of these games growing up, but never got around to playing them. Mostly because until I was well into my teens, my parents were full into the 'RPGs are evil' from the D&D panic. So my Origin game experience was mostly Omega, or action titles. I didn't even play an Ultima game til emulators and I tried the NES Ultima title in the 00's as an adult. I appreciate the work you have done on all of these titles! Dragon Warrior I, II, III, Final Fantasy I,II,III, and Phantasy Star I, II, III were played under the radar at friends houses and my formative CRPG experience.
Oh yeah, my mother bought into the "Satanic Panic" a little bit as well. It really was huge in the 80s.
i love the sailing in ultima 4 , it would be cool if it was combined with more danger and eventuality ! IMO it only sucks because it is JUST an inconvenience . I love rules-based immersion !
The wind and movement being orthogonal seem like the big problem with the implementation. If you could use 8-way movement to tack into the wind, it would be less frustrating.
I can see the origins (no pun intended), of the later Ultima series here. The first three games feel so different that they might as well be an entirely different trilogy.
They really do. I've heard Ultima 1-3 described as "Richard learns to code" and 4-6 as "Richard learns to tell a story."
You can use H (Hole up and camp) to heal in the Abyss too
I always forget about camping. Probably would have made things easier than just passing until I built my MP up again. Thanks for the tip!
I love these videos! I first learned about Ultima from Ultima online, and I was a bit young to have followed all these ones. though I played a lot of the games that were influenced by them (like Final Fantasy and Dragon warrior). When Ultima 9 came out, I got the version that came with all of the previous eight Ultima games. I loaded a few of them up but never was able to really dig in. Some I didn’t know how to get running right. Having a series like this is a really great way to experience them and I’m having a strange feeling of nostalgia for a thing that I never actually experienced!
It's even trickier to play these games now, so I'm glad I can offer the experience to people who might not get the chance to see them otherwise.
Your idea about 'how players have a sense of wonder' as a playthrough is an interesting one. Even calling it out briefly as you did when little mysteries come up as like a 'game makers hints' was quite good - a technical breakdown of how wonder and discovery are built into a game like a lock-and-key diagram or how it motivates different exploration might be interesting too 🤔 nice insightful playthrough 👌💚
I like that you have to beat the snake down and force it to flee ! ! but it's sad that you can accidentally kill it . Newer rules-based games like Dota 2 have many little exceptions to prevent unflavourful interactions like that .
Thanks again for an amazing analytical playthrough. I hope you stick with this format as watching hours of grinding. is not nearly as interesting as getting the holistic plot. I am especially excited to learn more about Ultima V (especially how not to get lost...)
Point of fact, you can flee non-evil creatures (snakes, insects, rats I think) and it won't ding your valor.
You can blink to the shrine of Honesty but it's not easy.
Wind spells are handy, but yeah they don't guarantee winds for very long.
By the way, you can sell (all) the Mysics and they will regen at their original locations, making it pretty easy to equip with magic ranged weapons and max out spells and reagents.
Yo, in the Abyss, only magic or mystic weapons will work. Geoffrey can grind it out with a mystic sword, but Katrina is only useful if she has flaming oil. Oh you said that right after I typed it lol.
In the Apple IIe version that I played on originally, there was absolutely NO saving in any dungeon, and usually it took a good 4-5 hours to reach the end of the Abyss. So I had a pretty frustrating time for a while almost being able to finish the game but not quite.
Yeah snakes, rats, insects, and I think seahorses.
@@MichaelCoorlim And townsfolk! When Vorpal attacks you, you can safely flee. Same with guards, if you make them hostile.
@21:29 the skin colored belt buckle on that sprite always looked like something different to me... 🙃
31:43ish, IDK about you bruz, but I've always pronounced it - arc - ehpel - igo, hard arc at the start, then ipel, like impel without the 'm' then igo like 'ago'. Nice vids, love em. Take care.
Thank you! I'm watching it immediately. Such good childhood memories.
I noticed a mispronunciation that I didn't see mentioned, just thought I'd toss it out there. A chain of islands is an ar-KI-pel-a-go. Also Mitre (though I'm not sure if this is correct since the word is being used as a name) is "MIGHT-er" (the pope's hat is a mitre)
Thanks again for a great playthrough! Looking forward to your next one. As soon as I have a few bucks to spare, I'd love to toss a couple your way.
I like the ideas in these games and how important they were historically for the rpg genre, but at the same time I'm glad I don't have to play them in order to see what's good in them.
Great video, as always!
Michael,
These are absolutely amazing and have been a great look back at games that I did not play particularly well or finish during my childhood. Thank you for making these, your insights make these videos a joy to consume.
I am sure you are inundated with requests for other game coverage, but I can't help feeling that this sort of analytical play-through would be particularly well suited to _The Magic Candle_ which was in my memory the pinnacle of the rich/complex Ultima-IV era RPG design. I could talk in some detail about why, but only if that interests you.
I hope you are enjoying making these as much as I am enjoying watching them,
Luke
Magic Candle is a great game and one I would like to cover eventually.
I'm upset about what has recently transpired with R.G. and the whole "Shroud" debacle, but I truly treasured U4 & U5 when I was younger, and as an adult. 🙂
What happened?
@@ScavengerFXHe promised new UO, made shit game, used it to sell virtual land, left it to scam nft retards and came back when nft failed.
Oh holy shit
RG puts the blame on the company for pulling something shady while he was off in space, but ultimately he's responsible for who he allows control over his branding.
@@MichaelCoorlim So, basically the plot from Ultima 5?
Lord British is away in the Underworld, and his regent pollutes his realm in the interim, due to outside influence from evil forces?
55:37 Thou hast lost an eighth! 😉
I have lost so many eighths!
Also, I might have used blink to get to the Spirituality shrine as well. I think I noticed the "hole" on the map long before I found the balloon? I do also remember using a lot of wind spells, too, so I might have done it the hard way as well... I don't remember being overly (not days worth, for sure) frustrated with it... but I was playing on an Apple //e, which might have been a bit slower.
I did it on Commodore 64, and it wasn't *too* tough to hit a 1x1 landing square. It's a little harder on the original PC port, which runs faster but can be handled with some practice if you want to put in some hours (assuming you're slowing it to a reasonable level), while the VGA / music upgrade patch makes it nightmarish because of the cycle requirements to make the music happen.
I've found hanging out in Jhelom brings pirates easier.
I just finished this game, first on NES and now I’m a few dungeons away from finishing the PC version (without the enhanced graphics btw lol). It’s an amazing game I wish I could get my friends to look at
It's a hard sell in 2024.
I don't know if I missed you mentioning this in the video, but the NES version forces you to go into the Abyss alone. It kind of makes the doppelganger room fall a bit flat; the symbolism of you and your party being the best versions of themselves by defeating their doubles doesn't really land when they're not there to, y'know, do it.
Didn't mention that, so thanks for the added context!
Looking forward to when you have to cover Ultima 9, gonna be fun ripping on that.
I'm not exactly looking forward to it. :D
@@MichaelCoorlim Eh, I found a method to enjoy It. Enjoy It like a hillariously bad movie with beer and fast food.
What's an Ultima 9? I've never heard of it. It's a shame we never got an eighth game, let alone a ninth...
Yes, no such thing. What a SHAME.
@@juliebartlett4222 That's not true. You forgot about Serpent's Isle and the Underworld games.
Great video, I really enjoy the commentary and analysis
Thanks!
Great job, I played this game on the NES and it was one of my faves. I never seen the PC version, sorta glad I played the NES version as it seems less tedious. Subcribed to you man, keep up the good work.
Algorithm boost now. Opinions later
Thank you 👍
You are welcome!
Why didn't you Blink to the shrine of honesty? That's what I always did, rather than wait for a ship.
Honestly I was going to need a ship eventually.
@@MichaelCoorlimTrue that. I also first used Blink to get to Cove before I learned about the whirlpool. (Just watched that part)
I realize now that my mistake was picking up as many companions as quickly as possible. The combats got unbearable.
I played it that way, it took awhile but I had more time back then. Having a full XP party in the final dungeon was nice, I forgot that you had to get through it without saving though. I was reminded by a coworker to get that word and have it ready at the end, she and her brother learned this the hard way.
In my young days I got a companion every time I leveled up. I took Katrina last and just... never revived her after the inevitable. In my latest playthroughs I play/get a Bard/Druid/Mage and get them wands as fast as possible. I might try a solo playthough starting with enlightenment and level 8 and make use of the option to... sell the Mystic Arms/Armor to get fully equipped.
I've tried playing every one of the Ultima games, and the only one I could really get in to was Ultima Online, the new Shadow Of The Avatar was a bit janky to be honest. Tabula Rasa was good too, but that's something completely different. (Loved it, but NCSoft took it away from us.) :-)
Ultima VII was the first one I could play to finish when it came out... I was a little young for the earlier ones, though I did go back and play the Worlds of Ultima games. Ultima Underworld was pretty great, too.
In your opinion what mechanic or concept in the Ultima games, that you ever abused thus far, should be brought back and used again in modern games?
I enjoy the heck outa these play throughs! Gives me my own ideas. (Indie dev heh)
I've toyed with the idea of doing an ultima style throwback crpg in Godot. Maybe when I have more time.
This one wasnt as crazy. Combined with being longer and the virtue grinds seeming a little dull, it was a tough watch.
Im hoping for more strangeness in next one
That comment RE the sense of first-time wonder was mine from your Ultima I video (which you replied to 😂). I’m a 21st century person and want my validation please.
Also you pronounced Magincia wrong :)
Thanks for both the comment and the correction!
Coming to this a bit late, but about your comment on an analytical vs. emotional playthrough, I do actually prefer analytical for this sort of game. I don't really have any attachment to the Ultima series, and I'm a bit too young to appreciate this sort of gameplay (my interest in RPGs really starts in the early 90s). So, I find it interesting to explore this game from an analytical, more abstract perspective, whereas a more emotional, wonder-focused one would be somewhat lost on me.
I do like the videos you make and this style you're developing. I find a lot of retrospectives and analyses like these are too loud and bombastic, so your more conversational tone works well.
Hey, thanks for the kind words, and your input. I'll probably keep on the way I've been going.
You mention not being able to use the balloon due to the game being too fast. You know you can increase/decrease cpu cycles in dosbox with ctrl+F11/F12?
Yeah, changing the speed helps, but ultimately it's the fact that the Wind spell only changes the wind's direction for a few turns and then you're moving randomly again.
I thought only fleeing evil creatures loses valor? Is this not the case?
While I've only ever played the DOS version as far as I know there's only 5 events that modify valor.
+Starting as a fighter
+Winning a random battle in the overworld or a dungeon encounter.
-Having the whole party flee an encounter with an evil creature.
-Having a character at full health flee a battle with an evil creature. It doesn't matter if it's your lead character.
-Using the skull of Mondain
You don't lose valor if SOME of your party flees so long as your party wins the encounter. This is a very useful thing to understand because it keeps your injured party members alive to fight another day. EG "Discretion the better part of valor". Or if you just want to let one partymember soak up XP. Though you will lose valor if you have some party members retreat and you lose the fight.
Also the fixed dungeon rooms can be skirted through. I can't give an in-universe explanation but you'll know because fights against evil creatures always end saying "Fled the battle is lost" where retreating from snakes or rats won't and this is the case in dungeon rooms it always "exit".
Thanks
Thank you!
It actually would be cool to see a more role play-y play through! As an indie dev I dec enjoy the analytical play throughs though!
I've seriously considered a roleplayed LP channel from time to time.
Gathering the vertues alone would take me hundreds of hours but there's no chance i'd even complete two of them.
One thing I wish all rpgs kept is the enemies having an overworld sprite and it's up to the player to choose whether to fight them or flee instead of the random encounters at random intervals some games had, which I deeply despise.
Do you happen to know which game started this horrible trend ?
On a side note, have you tried dosbox-X ? Apparently, it even has built-in video recording on top of the other features.
I found in my playthrough that just walking around fighting monsters gets you several virtues alone. Praying at a temple gives you a ton of spirituality points. I had no problem maxing them all out (with a guide of course, this is absolutely a guide game lol)
what sound mod is he using for the music?
I'm using the VGA Upgrade Patch: www.moongates.com/u4/upgrade/Upgrade.htm
Hearing you talk about the pull between different virtues ... go watch some interviews with Richard Garriott and you will find that that was what he was hoping for.
And honestly I think you should analyze Ultima 5 before too long since it covers similar ethical ground.
On the SMS version you can’t blink to get the white stone. It’s a bitch. You need to be in the balloon. But I found wind spells lasted a good amount of time. It will take you about 10 tiles.
If you use the skull on the SMS version it just blows the whole world up and you need to load a game.
I have tips. The quick spell gives you two turns per enemy turn. If you are poisoned you can’t be sent to sleep. Electric fields are good for hiding behind. Use the halberd to attack over people and walls like a knight in chess. You can change weapons without using a turn.
I started watching someone play this game. I was enthusiastic. But if you want to hold my attention over such a simple game, you need to be a personality. You need to have an interesting perspective or angle that you communicate as you play. In my mind I make jokes none stop. Good jokes. Not everyone can do jokes. But it’s about showing how you view the game and what thoughts occur to you as you play.
If you use a guide it might make it all basically pointless though. Go by memory but I don’t want to watch someone just check off all the boxes.
If you want to go through the game, don’t try and finish it or set a goal to finish it. Because this game is not really designed to even be completed. I don’t think Richard really expected many people take it all the way through. It’s like 500 hours without a guide.
It’s an open world sandbox, more or less. You wander about and use your imagination.
Maybe you could find an angle to make the playthrough a bit more unique with self imposed rules. Maybe try to do it solo with the Shepard.
I would recommend the sms version to people interested in the series because it uses a control pad and is the most streamlined and accessible version.
To get started all you need to know is ginseng and garlic make the cure poison spell.
I would recommend this game (on sms) to anyone.
How do you change weapons without losing a turn?
@@scottydu81 just do it in their turn using READY.
@@iwanttocomplain I’ll try again, but I believe that takes a turn
@@scottydu81 that's not how I remember it. I'm talking about the Master System version. Let me try.
this may take a while...
I always assumed it was a soft J, and pronounced YELL-ohm, or yHEL-ohm. Anyone know the official pronunciation?
stick with the analysis version. I dont think you need to go the Lets play route that has been tread by others.
7:53 Mag-i-cin-i-a ????????? It's Mag-ins-ee-ah, spelt Magincia
12:08 Lie-cin-ium? It's Lie-see-um, spelt Lycaeum (silent a)