Just because Griffith did nothing wrong, doesn't mean he did anything right. Miura stated himself he did not write the story under the "good vs. evil" framework.
Just because moral ambiguity is part of the series doesnt absolve griffith of his horrible evil actions. You are engaging in flimsy apologetics solely for views
Dude you need to reread the manga. Either that or you made this vid to strictly get views because you left many important details out. Griffith is a narcissistic, machiavelian, psychopath before he was ever femto. Narcissism, he told guts after the water fight that he will decide the place he dies. After selling his body to the rapey noble, he committed self harm because his machiavelian and narcissistic parts of his identity were at odds with eachother. His narcissism would never let him think he was a victim. His machiavelian nature needed him to be. Casca hugs him, a narcissist loves to be looked up to, a machiavelian person can't look weak in front of his soldiers. IT WASNT ALTRUISM. He tried to kill guts while being rescued by him, and he tried to rape casca before the eclispe. BEFORE HE WAS FEMTO. Then, despite the band taking care of him, admiring his broken ass, and still loving him, what's he do? He steels the cart away and chases a delusion of his child self going toward his dream. He doesn't and never cared about any of the hawk beyond how they could help him reach his goal. Then, right before choosing to sacrifice, Guts, the man he loved most in the world, comes to save him from the godhand, what does he do, smiles and says I sacrifice. It's not that Griffith did anything wrong, he IS EVERYTHING WRONG. HE IS EVIL. HE ALWAYS WAS, BEFORE AND AFTER THE ECLISPE. I get Miura's interviews contradict this, but I'm nearly certain, like most great authors, he didn't want he creative process to affect the way people interpret the story. Griffith is the pinnacle of the psychological dark triad. I am almost certain Miura wrote Griffith with the dark triad of psychology in mind. Also, narcissist are often childish, the machiavelian aspects speak for themselves. Griffith says none of the hawk are his friends. Yeah, he is the closest thing to personified evil that any human can be, regardless of perspective
This video is a weak attempt at pretending the main antagonist of the series is the "victim" Anyone who losses their shit because a grown man goes and follows his own way, is a possessive physcopath that was likely to get you killed when he got bored of you. But hey get them clicks my guy!
Even in the Dionysian sense Griffith is bad. The eclipse is an example of the Hinterwelt (or back-world if you've read a bad translation), a concept that weak people use to escape their own physical shortcomings. Such as Christians who only achieve victory in heaven or Plato's Republic. Griffith did not earn his strength, whereas Guts did, and Guts is undefeated in the physical realm because he is a Warrior Aristocrat. Griffith is basically a nerd who got mad that his jock best friend who he grew up with fucked his crush, so like many weak people do, he imagined a scenario where HE could be the strong one, only thing is since it's Berserk and everything bleak and painful, it actually fucking worked. If Griffith healed and grew his body to even better than before, gained the skill to best Guts, and dominate Casca, and then claim his throne, then he'd be virtuous. Then he'd have done nothing wrong, instead he appealed to the God Hand like a bitch. Also King Gaiseric is still based, fuck outta here! 🤣 I'm glad he tortured Void, I hope he does it again.
There are many issues with this take on Griffith's character and morality. The major issue with your argument that Griffith is somehow morally neutral comes in the fact that he acts selfishly. Almost always. As you said, The Band of The Hawk would view Griffith as evil for his sacrifice while citizens of Falconia would view their king as benevolent. Good and evil are relative ideas, and the personal viewpoints of characters dictate what they view as good and evil. However, while citizens love Griffith for their new utopia, they would be horrified by the truth. Of course, they would be horrified by the eclipse, but more so, they'd be horrified that he was directly involved with the merging of the astral and physical planes. The reason Falconia is a safe haven is that after Griffith was reborn, the world of Berserk as we knew it changed. Fantastical and demonic entities now roam rampant across Midland and beyond. The merging was directly linked with Griffth wanting to rule his own kingdom. Society for common folk and royals alike exploded into a cacophony of bloodshed and chaos because one man wanted to pursue his dream. His dream was not to provide a safe haven for everyone on Earth, his dream was to be King, no matter how much bloodshed was required. In this sense, Griffiths's rebirth, the merging of planes, and Falconia's creation are eerily similar to the eclipse. Another bloody step in his endless ambition. As for the Band of The Hawk and Guts, we again see that Griffith's selfishness gets in the way of proper judgment and just action. Griffith treats his "friends" like toys, and tools that he owns and controls. When Guts, arguably Griffiths's only true friend, attempts to leave the Band of The Hawk we see a perfect example of this. Griffith thinks he owns Guts, he doesn't understand the normal idea of what a friend is. And when Griffth finally loses that friend, he can't handle it. If Griffith was a good friend, if he understood what a friendship actually looked like, then he would allow Guts to leave. A good friend would allow their pal to pursue their dreams. After all, Guts was aiding Griffth in his dream. He was laying down his life every day for Griffith. Yet, after years of service, Guts cant leave without a duel? Griffth was willing to kill the man! It is not reasonable to claim Guts is responsible for Griffiths melt down and subsequent torture. In fact, committing treason by sleeping with the princess in an upset fit of sorrow condemned his other remaining allies to a life on the run, if they werent outright killed. Another selfish act, in this case, to satiate his percieved loss of Gut's. Are you suggesting that Gut's is responsible for the emotional well being of Griffth? A grown man? Is Guts then too responsible for the Eclipse, the rape of Casca and the death of The Band of The Hawk? I dont even have to explain why the eclipse is fucking evil. There is no argument for that somehow being morally grey. He sexually assualted Cacsa, used her, just to make Gut's suffer for his own suffering. Suffering he could have prevented if he had simply accepted that Gut's was his own person. The result of the Eclipse doesnt serve a greater purpose. The Eclipse served Griffiths ends, to sastisy his need for dominance. Comparing him to Abraham Lincoln makes no sense whatsoever, Im not sure why you included that. Ironically, your comparison to Alexander the Great shows exactly why Griffth in fact did something wrong. Alexander was as you said a excellent conquerer but a terrible leader. Im not sure what you're point with that was either, especially because Alexander did not serve a greater purpose, he served himself just as Griffith does in Berserk. So while the comparison is accurate, I dont understand how hes an historical example of a leader serving a "better purpose". Both Griffith and Alexander did not have to kill thousands, they chose to for thier own gain. Abraham Lincoln had to unify a country as President. Your comparison to Skull Knight also doesnt make much sense. Skull Knight is never claimed to be a good indvidual and he himself, as we see in the final existing chapters of Berserk, looks back on his time as Gaiseric as foolish. In fact Skull Knight serves as a figure to avoid becoming. He is Guts shade. Skull Knight is what Gut's will become if he continues on a path of vengence. Also, how is his torture of Void/Prophet in any way worse than the actions of Griffith? One could claim they are both equally cruel perhaps, but more so? Than the eclipse? Another thing I noticed is how you brushed off Gut's reaction to Griffith on the Hills of Swords, yet hyper fixated on Griffths reaction to seeing Guts after hes rescued from captivity. How is Griffiths anger towards Guts for being tortured for his own actions more justifiable than Guts reaction to encountering the rapist of his love and the murderer of his freinds? I'm very confused with the point your trying to make. This video can be summed up by saying, people are who they are. But what does that mean for the story of Berserk? You're ignoring the fact that Guts and Griffith are narrative foils. Miura claimed "Griffith is Griffth" because he wanted us as readers to understand that there are motives and circumstances for actions. He wanted his characters feel human, for us to understand his ideas about humanity and what it means to be human. At the same time, the story activley condemns Griffith's actions. The difference between him and Guts is that Guts can accept his failures. Guts is willing to feel the consequnces of his actions and to keep moving. Griffith stays stagnant. He cant handle his own failure and instead makes thinsg worse by repressing his emotions. The duel before Guts leaves showcases this idea perfectly. Griffth was too busy becoming a noble, trying to acheive his dream, that he couldnt see the importance of his freinds. Guts on the other hand activley made strides to grow, finally realising that he needed to leave the Hawk's in order to discover the meaning of his life. Gut's outgrew his dependence on Griffth along with surpassing him in his swordsmanship. In summary, I vehemently disagree with the basis of this video and I think you should perhaps reread some parts about Berserk in order to better understand Miuras ideas about morality.
Totally this. Griffith = selfish And even normal selfish people can stop themselves from doing things that harm others out of empathy. But Griffith is a whole other level of selfish. The only time he was selfless was risking his life for Guts against Zodd. But one could even argue he did that for himself anyway, because he didn't want to lose Guts. I'm in total agreement with your contentions to this video's message. 👐
@@figmenter Thanks man, glad people seem to be disagreeing with this guys opinion. I'm very puzzled by what point he's trying to make. I feel as though he came up with the idea for the video from Miura's quote about evil and good, then just rode the coattails of that. I think a better approach would be to objectively talk about morality or moral ambiguity in Berserk.
The argument can be made that he is a grey character tho. He does alot of terrible things but also alot of great things as well. Is he selfish? Sure. Most people who want a kingdom are. Most people who were in the band of the hawk were. Griffith still did alot of things that benefited both himself and the group. He did not have to personally save casca or guts numerous times or prostitute himself so that the band could eat/have supplies. He couldve had someone else do it. He also didnt have to create a perfect kingdom or insist everyone has a chance at a better life, he couldve simply been like all the other rulers. Saying that he isnt morally grey is blatantly wrong regardless of his intentions
Yes, Griffith is so kind to let Casca and Guts live after traumatising them for life. Griffith has done some good things but that in no way erases all the evil he has done. The r*pe of Casca was purely malicious and he had no excuse for it. He could have tortured Guts as he was, if he wanted to get revenge at him so badly.
If escaping the consequences of your actions is not wrong, then he did nothing wrong. The moment he decided to go sleep with princess Charlotte was the moment he already eff'd up his life. Guts leaving the band of the hawk didn't give Griffith the license to deflower Charlotte. He kinda did it for himself and no one else. The consequence, he very well knew, would be the horrible death of the band of the hawk at the hands of Midland's armies, his eventual capture, torture, and death. But he chose to do it, nevertheless. And when given the choice to actively maim kill and dismember his team mates, in order to escape the consequence of his actions. He, again, chose to do so, for himself alone, at the cost of everyone who helped him throughout his conquest. In the whole scheme of things, Griffith probably did nothing wrong for himself, and maybe perhaps Falconia's citizens. But to actively choose to do those things to the people who helped you through the years, is kinda... wrong...
@CW even if Guts didn't come back, Griffith is still responsible for his own wellbeing and the wellbeing of his mercenaries band, being their leader and all. One can't shift the blame for one's own actions. Looking at Guts, when his beast of darkness got the better of him and attempted to rape Casca, he took full responsibility and distanced himself from her by asking help from Farnese. When he took off for 2 years and lost track of Casca in the process, he blamed no one but himself for chasing his dream of revenge. At first he kinda blamed Rickert and crew a bit, but realized it's entirely his own doing.
Having extramarital sex does not make Griffith evil. It's not as though he went into the situation thinking "yeah we're gonna fuck and then a maid will spy on us through a keyhole in the middle of night and then i can get tortured for a year"
@@4kTthJrN true, having sex with the princess wasn't inherently evil. Evil? of course not. Wrong? kinda. It was a risk going into it knowing what he knows, given his status at that moment. For a man as smart and tactful as Griffith is, the moment he decided to sleep with Charlotte that night, he knew he was putting himself and the entire band at risk.
@@sirjordancarter No, at any point, while being apart of the band, they could have left, not fought in some battle and went on to do their own thing. Griffith took that option away from them. Also Guts didn't want to die for his cause, he already left, instead of respecting Guts choice, Griffith saw that as betrayal and in revenge raped Casca Infront of him.
He's discussing the results of Griffith's actions, not just him as a person. Did you listen to him describing how someone in Falconia who was starving prior would see Griffith as good for bringing them prosperity and giving them their lives back? Good and evil are not just intentions or singular actions. Consequences of actions are far reaching that "ooh this person did that so judge everything else as evil both in intent and result".
@@phyrr2 I never said anything about Griffith as a person maybe reread my comment. He said Griffith's done nothing wrong but then proceed to say he r*ped Casca at the very beginning of the video which I hope you also think is something wrong to do, that was my point... 🤨
He didn't say that, you're misrepresenting his ideas, which is funny because I read another comment of someone saying he didn't bring up Griffith raping Casca at all.
@@Sernival Well you and that person obviously never watched the video. You defitnitely just skipped it and went to the comments...🤨 in the very beginning of the video he literally said that smh. 🤣 Some of y'all gotta watch the video before just reading comments and believing it.
The way I see it Femto is NOT Griffith Femto is a demonic entity absolutely transformed - all good drained from Griffith's soul. So it's not really logical to judge Griffith the man by Femto's actions. If thousands have died for your dream and Gods come to you at a moment of tortured desolation and tell you everything is in vain if you refuse a final sacrifice to achieve that dream it's hard for me to judge him for accepting. And when they transformed him into something else that's no longer Griffith.
Just because someone has done good things and has gone through a lot doesn't mean that them doing terrible things is suddenly justifiable. No matter the circumstance assaulting someone like he did is evil no matter the actions surrounding it.
That's assuming that the person doing the good deeds did them to be good. Did Griffith somehow owe anything to anyone? He had sycophants who became dependent upon him because they wouldn't follow their own dream and instead became infuriated when he could no longer fulfil that role for them. If anything his followers are more selfish than he is because they deemed him to have no value once he couldn't do anything for them. In the end they got sacrificed to a person they didn't actually care about. They only cared about what he could do for them.
@@phyrr2 while I'd still bet on a handful actually personally caring for him. Just because he was being used doesn't make it right that he got them murdered and especially it doesn't excuse him assaulting casca she cared for him deeply and did not try to use him. Again just because someone has been wronged it does not excuse morality and does not let them have a free pass to do much more atrocious things in return, especially to people who did nothing wrong like casca
@@TheBoss-jq6gi i feel you, it doesn't make that shit right lol. Doesn't make his assault during the eclipse anymore excused to me. Rather they are Selfish sycophants or not, they still put their lives on the line for him so be it self interest or true friendship it wasn't like griffith didn't benefit at all. Interpretations are all fine and dandy but putting so much effort into justifying a meme seems a bit silly to me lol
Griffith wasn’t destroyed when guts left, He was destroyed when he found out guts could have just ended his entire prophecy and everything he’s ever worked for in the blink of an eye. You see Griffith thought nothing could ever stop him, That’s why he had such high faith in being able to defeat guts. But guts is so goddamn hardcore not even a demon prophecy can stop him from killing a man.
@@TheOUTSIDER1995 In just one moment Guts could've ended it all by not saving him or by merely not controlling his strength enough in their final duel in the golden arc.
@@Justafeint He couldn't even if he wanted to, Griffith was choosen to become Femto by any means, let's say Guts actually impaled Griffith there, first he would have been saved by a miracle, leaving him wounded but in the verge of dead, then he would have summoned thr God Hand to become Femto. I would have been worse.
@@TheOUTSIDER1995 You don't understand. Even if Griffith knew about causalities there is still that slim feeling of something being so close to taking everything away even if by some miracle you achieved it. Guts was this close to taking it all away and Griffith thinks that. So it infuriates him even more.
@@Justafeint That's the point, he was never close, and now he knows that, current Griffith doesn't care about Guts, neither it has grudge towards him, he could easily kill Guts in several occasions but he simply ignores him most of the time. Hell, you can say he even spares his life, Griffith is so narcissistic that he won't give Guts any sort of meaning to his life, and that actually makes Guts mad as hell.
This is the beauty of Miura's work, the ambiguity of morality and the blurring of lines between good and evil. Historical figures that are revered today did absolutely terrible things, Miura did an excellent job with creating these two characters and both are deeply flawed and human, realistic morality is very hard to write and portray. Griffith is such an amazing character, so much deeper and nuanced than most in the manga.
The fact that Griffith built Falconia on top of the old city where everyone was sacrificed before.... I think it was evil intentions. Get all the humans together for an even larger sacrifice to become something even more powerful.
Maybe all for guts, thinking they could be together as godhand. Gutts would reject the offer obviously, battle ensues, repeat eclipse, themes of time being a circle? I like the idea of that being the ending.
Dumb take. He didn't kill guts on the hill of swords because of the internal conflict he has with "the child". Let's just say it isn't for that reason. It would be because Griffin is even more arrogant now. He probably thinks, "Thanks Guts for bringing me to my breaking point and now I get to be an all powerful Demon" Furthermore, no one told Griffin to go into Charlotte's room that night. That to me was the downfall of the Band of the Hawks. Guts deals with his suffering, but Griffin can't deal with his suffering/loss and always has to find a way out.
Yeah, but once you go down the "everything is relative" route then you can just argue in favor of justifying anything which just renders the whole argument pointless. I've seen a lot of debates regarding this position and it usually devolves into someone saying, "None of us are qualified to judge what is right or wrong including myself, so it would be arrogant of me to make that judgement." The opposition usually responds with a hardline position that something seemingly universally reviled like genocide/slavery/rape/etc. is "definitely wrong." This usually causes awkward stutters of confusion and embarrassment as people realize that the "everything is relative" position can be used to justify even slavery or genocide thus making anyone who takes that side look foolish. Regarding Guts leaving, if Griffith's attitude is "you owe me" then he never truly loved Guts as a brother but saw him as an investment. The whole reason Guts leaves in the first place is because he overhears Griffith admitting that he could never truly respect a man who just lives for another without having his own ambitions and goals. If that's the case Griffith should've been happy for Guts to find his own path rather than hope to keep using him. Guts didn't even leave him "high and dry" as Griffith had more than enough strength and support to achieve his goals regardless. Instead Griffith was impatient and fell through his own risky behavior of consorting with a woman who was to be considered off-limits. Also, regarding the first meme that splashes onscreen, being willing to FIGHT to accomplish a collectively beneficial dream is not the same as being willing to literally DIE for someone else's personal ambition.
I agree wholeheartedly. Arguing that everything is relative is such non statement. It doesn't help that in this video, the argument is used to make actions like rape and murder morally neutral. Griffiths actions are evil and I don't know why people ever argue they aren't
When someone asks me "What is wrong with atheists, why don't you let them be" it seems like they don't really know anything about what implied set of philosophies it involves. For context: This video is based upon Nietzche's del##!oal philosophy Before any salty atheist comes to poke fun at me (funny... they never have any arguments without resorting to an illogical hypothesis called macroevolution) alluding to talking snakes and fairytales: No, I reject that as well, I'm a genuine freethinker.
Devils in the details. It’s ironic that the Godhand claim to be emotionless yet they act upon emotion the entire series just the narcissistic/greed kind
the only thing Griffith messed up on was speaking loud enough for guts to overhear him talking to Charlotte about not respecting a man who didn't have his own dreams and a man like that would never be his equal. he put that in guts head unknowingly which made guts leave the band causing his demise.
And also not asking Guts why he was leaving in the first place (like a good boss/friend would), instead forcing his hand. He could have walked with Guts and taked it over if he didn't just try to use force right away.
@@madmank7881 i wouldve thought he was joking because he is more broke then I am. Everybody knew guts was griffith’s favorite they said it every other chapter. Guts was being dramatic and blew it out of proportion only to now suffer knowing that he left the griffith and the band for no reason. Mind you plenty of other ppl liked him but he didnt care. He wanted griffith’s attention so bad for no reason especially when you compare it to what he says to casca
Ah I get it, “He rapes, but he saves. And he saves more than he rapes.” Which would be hilarious EXCEPT….this isn’t Dave Chapelle or a comedy special, man. This is a college-freshman devil’s advocate take that at its core ignores basic humanity. I love Griffith as a fictional character because of how well he’s written but even the writing is far from “there is no good or evil in Berserk”. Memes shouldn’t be taken seriously and just because you can argue the logic doesn’t mean it’s not fucked.
Except the Griffith that raped was not Griffith, it was Femto, a remake of Griffith with no capability of having morals. It’s because he was a demon with no attachments that he was able to do what he did after the sacrifice.
@@triumphant8637 every Apostle in Berserk made a choice or sacrificed something to become a demon, they didn't become evil after the sacrifice because it was the catalyst in their demonhood. So its more likely that he was able to become a demon because he had no attachments or capability for morals.
@@rufaro- there are different reasonings for the sacrifice, we are talking about the rape. That was Femto. Obviously it’s still a wrong, heart wrenching, betrayal, but it’s deeper/more to it than what you make of it.
@@triumphant8637 I think our disagreement is saying Femto ≠ Griffith because to me apostles are not “remakes”. But regardless, the rape was Griffith because of the intentionality. If Femto ≠ Griffith he’d have no reason to parade Casca’s body in front of Guts specifically while looking at him dead in the eye. It’s also implied that he tried forcing himself on her in the carriage but was too weak. And even if that was because he’d been in a prisoner for a year, he clearly took notice of their relationship. Prior to the eclipse any time the two were together we are shown Griffith for a reason.
femto is griffith transformed it is true its him but it is also not a human anymore(therefore operating differently), also you cannot pass the judgement to griffith in the eclipse because it is clear knowledge of what he was doing due to his mental state as he was literally agonizing, adding to that griffith had no severed ties with his humanity when the eclipse happened his loss of humanity and care for the band happened during the transformation, why i say that? because the sacrifice requires someone who is meaningful to you, as if losing that person or people is similar to losing a part of your soul. that is clearly explained in the black swordsman arc.
If we see it from Nietzsche's morality, obviously there is no specific good and evil because he wanted to destroy Christian morality because he thought it limited us and made us suffer but if you use the logical sense and the ethics griffith is insane
The godhand ritual freezes ones emotions, which is why griffith did not feel any anger, hatred towards gutts. It is a false transcendent state he has reached. Griffith did not save casca, moonlight child did. His body moved against his will.Griffith could care less for casca. Griffith is a narcissist, everything is me, me, me for him. Gutts leaving hurt him so much because he was the one person he cared for, and even then he did not acknowledge what gutts means to him, and still doesnt.
The guy transformed, lowered down to where guts was, then had casca be lowered down to him and assault her all the while he is looking guts in the eyes with pure intense hatred and people still manage to claim it was femto and that he had lacked any sort of emotions during that act. Then what was the purpose of all of that considering it does nothing in furthering his goals. I genuinely thought 99% of people were memeing with the griffith did nothing wrong sentiment before clicking on this video, which i also expected to be satire going in lmao.
it's exactly because he owed hm everything that he left. he wasn't anything without Griffith, he had no reason to fight. Yes he was very strong, but his fight with 100 is pivotal because he understands it all means nothing
It amazes me how every video I watch there are new ways of thinking about solely this one character. It just goes to show how amazing Berserk is. Personally I think that knowing everything that has happened, as readers, Griffith IS EVIL. There is no denying it. But of course, in Griffith’s perspective, the Band of The Hawk members are just pawns. In his mind they would be nothing if they weren’t “rescued” by him and let them be part of his crew, and further more, in his goal/dream. At the end, the things he has done can’t be erased and have no excuse. We can see things with other perspectives but ultimately what he did was wrong.
Griffith finding the toy soldier in HIS battlefield is what broke him. He confesses to Casca after selling himself that he has to do EVERYTHING in his power to move towards his goal of having his own kingdom, or that toy soldier on the battlefield died for nothing. It literally scratches away at his skin that he feels like he can't care for people he has to call pawns because then he wouldn't be able to send them to their deaths. After losing everything, he twists this justification from "They're dying for my goal" into "They're dying for me". This twist however also changes the reason his previous soldiers fought for which is where Griffith went wrong. His soldiers died so he could secure a Kingdom under a ruler everyone would look up to which he sorta did. His previous soldiers no longer died for his kingdom. They died so he could go chase Guts. Femto created a Kingdom where everyone in the world can travel safely together to through the spirit trees, y'know, after he opened the barrier between the spirit and human worlds.
Gatt's decided to leave because he overheard griffith and the princess talking at the water fountain. Griffith say's something along the lines of "A real friend would not abandon their own dream to follow mine". So I think Gatt's was just trying to take notice of what he said. Griffith however goes against what he say's, and tries to stop Gatt's from finding his own dream. That is narcissm. Your analogy would makes sense if the Homeless child was only leaving to make you proud and pursue his goals. He didn't just randomly decide to abandon his friend. Although Griffith did.
Agreed. Griffith didn't even ask Guts why he was leaving. If he did, and heard Guts say he was looking to find his own dream/purpose. Then, they could have talked it over. Instead of Griffith trying to force the situation.
@@figmenter True. It all went wrong from an action commited by griffith himself. Putting the blame on to guts because he decided to leave is not right. Yeah, maybe if Griffith would have asked why he was leaving, and try to reason with him, he just attempts to duel the person who has leads the frontlines of his army and has killed 100 people on his own. Not a smart decision but I suppose from Griffith's perspective, it would be Gut's fault.
The idea Griffith gave Guts everything so Guts should stay under his thumb the whole time is ridiculous Griffith was a control freak and manipulative, Guts isn't his property just because he did some good things for him. He didn't even do that for Guts, it was just a side effect of Griffith using him Also, "Femto didn't track Guts, Rickert or Casca down and kill them" Yea, because 1. He's stuck in the Astral world at this point 2. He's part of the God hand he doesn't think like that conventional human, he looks at them as insignificant. Him saving Casca had to do with him being fused with the moonlight child Vid is kinda badly researched
That’s what I’m saying, the only reason Griffith felt betrayed by Guts is because he wouldn’t be able to manipulate him any further and lost his control over him and this is why he couldn’t get him out of his head after he left.
@@backwoodsonthabeat7783yeah I think the Griffith simps are just emotionally immature and have some sort of personal stake in the argument because they overly identify with Griffith. It's like a weird ego thing, I don't personally identify with guts, I see guts as representing all people who wish to be a good person and their struggle through life.
Griffith is a fucked up human being, just because he has feelings doesn't mean he isn't bad, just because Miura said something years ago does not mean griffith is not evil, he is a fucked up individual doesn't matter how you look at it
4:00 thats like adopting a homeless child, raising them, teaching them, all that stuff, then when they 18 they move out to live on their own. you helped them learn how to live in this world and now they are going off to live on their own, theyre not abanding you and forgetting about you. giffith started to get mad at guts before he even left, who knows if guts would have just avoided griffith forever or if he would still look back on him in some sense of admiration. 6:00 griffith killed an entire batallion of people who looked up to him and still believed in him, he took away everything he gave to these people for his own personal wants and needs. this act was griffiths main (or first big) act of selfishness that makes everyone think hes wrong. the comparasion with alexander the great would work only if alexander the great had murdered his own allies in brutal ways just so he got more power. throughout this video you mention those moments where griffith had all these moments to kill guts, casca, or ricket. griffith still wants guts, he wants to have him on his side and under his control just like he has zodd. he also viewed casca as someone he could use and saw her as the weak girl that needed saving like when he first met him. he also knew ricket still admired him so he could use this admiration to benifit him. end of the video you say griffith did what griffith thought was good, if someone with BPD was on a manic episode, they would still be somewhat responsible for their actions. they cant tell whats good or wrong but they still are held accountable for those actions but griffith just keeps running away from his consiquiences and keeps using people for his gain.
The manga shows that Griffith is the literal manifestation of evil. He literally sacrifices all his “homies” and RAPES Casca just to hurt Guts… Nigga please be fr
4:33 I don't think that was the only thing. But also I think in Griffith's mind he was the best swordsman known in the land, and I think he internally took pride in that. So when Guts defeated him, it caught Griffith off guard. I think it shattered his ego/pride he had in himself as being the best swordsman. It was a huge shock to him that not only he was defeated, but he was defeated by someone he probably considered a close friend of his. So he probably also viewed that as a betrayel.
What you were trying to describe was actually Guts himself, especially with the accidental murder of the kings nephew. If you want to refer to a "grey" morality then Guts is at its bare limits with his personal enjoyment of savage mortal combat against men and maiming and killing against fantastical creatures and apostles. That's not including the more non personal primal urges he feels when he adornes the armour. Etc. -Griffith is purely narcissistic and calculating in the fact but I also don't think he was pure evil he was still human with complex emotions like love and hate and not a comically evil monster like an apostle. He was able to feel companionship regardless of his selfish dominating image he wanted and desired. -But make no mistake those times he saved casca and Guts etc during the fantasia/elf arcs he only done it because a piece of him(like in Harry potter) is the moonlight boy which is the eclipse defiled pregnancy of casca and guts, he has nothing good left in him except for the moonlight boy he sacrificed the rest of his humanity at the eclipse. But arguments don't matter because the best story ever told will never be told in full
I was just about to say. After rebirth, moonlight boy was the only thing holding Griffith back and that it was not up to Griffith to decide whether or not to spare Guts and Casca. Therefore, the argument that Griffith is neutral post rebirth is baseless.
@@figmenter thats actually not true. Griffith couldve killed guts and casca during the eclipse and at the beginningof the story prior to being reborn he simply chooses not to
Griffith literally tricked Guts into straight up murdering a kid years before he became Femto XD The dude was a total narcissist right from the start. There's no height of evil you can make a villain commit and still have a questionable number of fans simping for them if you A)Don't make their evil random/petty and B)Make them look pretty. Edelgard from Fire Emblem is more proof of that.
That's slightly misrepresenting what happened. Julius tried to have Griffith assassinated, so Griffith tried to have Julius assassinated in retaliation. Adonis just happened to wander in, Griffith didn't plan it.
I don't understand that stupid meme at the start. pretty sure the hawk wouldn't have volunteered if they knew they were to be brutally murdered by their leader. This argument seems kinda like a ploy to get attention lol
Everything Griffith ever did was to further his goal. He cared for nothing more than to have his own kingdom. He was tunnel vision on a mission. He did nothing wrong but care only for himself and what he wanted to accomplish. A true self centered pathological egotist with delusions of grandeur.
he only focused on his dream and attaining a kingdom.. up until he met Guts. Valuing Guts so much that he'd risk his own life to save him from Zodd. But wasnt it 'wrong' for someone as focused as Griffith to throw away everything after Guts left, though? Well, He did say Guts made him forget his dream for a time. But still.. sleeping with Charlotte was clearly not a step towards getting his kingdom. Basically, Griffith wants what he wants and will stop at nothing until he gets it. No matter what the cost.
@Powdered Toast Man yeah, he was being a jerk to them and was going to torture them until he was contented, had it not been for Mr. SkullKnight. As to why he didn't stop them from getting away, we'll never know.
Evil people can be decent kings, but that doesn't make them morally good, that just means there good at their job, you wouldnt forgive murderer for his crimes because he's good cooking
and if he didn't look the way he looked, or have the charm he has, nobody would think twice. he's always been a total narcissist. it's like people think it's gonna be some MGS inside job that Griffith totally did it all for the best reasons....like no..... and even if he did and that WAS the case.....that's dogshit story telling lmfao. And we all know this isn't bad storytelling.... Or we hope at least
and even iiiiiif he did somehow do it all for the "best reasons". he did fucking horrible shit hahahah like all the time that doesn't excuse pretty daddy
time and time again he's made the most selfish decisions. And if that's suppose to be some plot twist that he actuaaaally secretly was doing it for the right reasons with like little to no evidence besides Stockholm syndrome.... that's pretty BS..... it could be true at the end....but honestly idk that seems lame to me
he quite literally uses everyone to get things he wants. he "spares" people and " saves" people so he can get what he wants. It's straight up narcissism.
Grifith didn't do all this because he loved them, he did it for the same reason we humans feed the chickens on the farm and take care of them... to eat them he just want to be the one and even if he must sacrifice his whole kingdom to become a god, well guess what? He would absolutely do it
“This is not supposed to be a hot take or anything” Yes it is, that is exactly what this is. I’m literally 3 minutes in and you already just said “Griffith isn’t bad hed even let himself get raped by Lord Gennon for the Band of the Hawk” dude if you don’t understand why him being willing to do that makes him insane and leads to everything else you don’t understand what’s going on in this series
If you were given the option “live as a vegetable/die soon” or “kill everyone you love and who loves you and become and evil demon that takes over the world through violence and death” What are you picking man
@@patflann29 griffith put himself in that position by going rouge and sleeping with the princess. Not saying I don't feel sympathy for him being tortured but, he has to take responsibility.
he wants guts to become part of the god hand, remember his conversation with the princess, griffith stated he only see's people who are his equals to be his friends
It's like a man, so down because of a breakup, got too drunk, drove, and killed a person, went to prison, got tortured, bullied, etc, was given a chance to become a literal god by choosing to inflict a horrible death to his friends and family. Chose to become said literal godly being, then brought forth chaos into the world, then presented himself as its savior did nothing wrong? 🤔
No it’s different. There is one key reasoning. The band of the hawk exists to serve Griffith’s dream. Thousands upon thousands of soldiers were killed fighting for Griffith’s dream. Guts, Casca, and the others could’ve been killed anytime as well, and they knew that. Griffith rationalizes his choice by believing that those many thousands of soldiers that perished for him would be wasted. Think about that kid that Griffith was sad for. And it’s true in a sense. All those deaths would’ve been for nothing. So Griffith probably thought “what’s 50 more?” and made his choice. And like I said, the band of the hawk fights for Griffith. Killed in battle or killed in the eclipse, they still perished for Griffith’s dream.
@@triumphant8637 you're talking about the sacrifice at the eclipse. Yes, they serve and accept the risk of death, but their fates aren't sealed. And circumstances have change after Griffith slept with Charlotte (the metaphotical victim of drunk driving). At the point of sacrifice, these people were aimless, they were merely surviving for a year, and aren't even working for the dream anymore. They were just ordinary people who needed to band together to survive in the hopes of someday being able to work for Griffith's dream again. Before, they were fighting for the dream and their lives were dedicated to that, but at the point where the eclipse happened, most of them were at a crossroads (even Casca and Guts were), just surviving day by day. They were already in discussion on what to do with the rest of their lives. Their lives didn't belong to Griffith at this point, I believe, despite what Griffith may think. While Griffith might be able to justify to himself, condemning them to certain horrible death is, just that, an active choice to sacrifice people for his own gain.
@@figmenter I’m just explaining from Griffith’s POV. The thousands upon thousands of soldiers that perished being wasted was actually an important point in the manga as well. A lot of people miss it. It’s a more “difficult choice” than it seems, being in Griffith’s situation
@@triumphant8637 @Success and as to how close they were to Griffith. They were not total strangers, despite not being his friends or family. As you've said, Griffith got sad seeing the boy die, going so far as to sacrifice himself to get funds to prevent losing his men from lack of equipment/supplies. The Godhand doesn't accept sacrifices that have no weight. So it was an immense sacrifice in Griffith's part to choose to have his entire team brutally massacred. It's almost like sacrificing the only people he grew to know for an end that only benefits himself. To the common man, that's like sacrificing the ones we know and trust the most, our friends and family.
@@triumphant8637 ah yes. I see your point now. Yes, it was kind of sunk cost fallacy. It's like "we've come so far and so many lives have been sacrificed, quitting now would be a disservice to those who died valiantly".
I still go by the idea that Giffith died the day of the eclipse, the guy who is really evil for me is Femto, even though he formed Falconia and followed Griffith's dream, he still did what he did to the people he most respected, never forgiving him for what he did to Casca and Guts xd
I just want to say that when you love someone you just want them to be safe and happy. Transactional love isn't real love, and that's the main difference between Guts and Griffith. Guts has accepted that Casca might not want the same things as him and he still has risked his life to bring her to a safer place. Griffith is bad because he thinks that giving a small child a sword, instead of actually saving her, is sufficient payment to use them as a pawn in a grudge match; by assaulting and sacrificing them. Everything he did was calculated like a farmer tallying the cost of raising cattle for slaughter. If he did nothing wrong he would have just killed them; instead he used them to torture each other because they were happy without his permission.
My main take away is that we are judged by our own actions regardless of their influences. Our actions define our destinies and for that Griffith created his fate.
Most of the things Griffith does is from a point of self interest. He doesn't care if these actions benefit or harm others. Griffith does both good and evil things, but good deeds in themselves do not justify doing evil ones. Whether Griffith is "good" or "evil" is based entirely on your perspective.
That’s actually not true lol griffith does care he simply choose to move forward carrying the guilt with him. He does take his actions into account thats why griffith prostitutes himself, self harms, withholds info from the rest of the band. He (and guts) took on the hard stuff while everyone else just reaped the benefits.
If griffith did nothing wrong,he's just simply ask guts why he want to leave and after he heard guts reason he says "okay man,but come back to us when you already equal to me". And later guts come back with his own army and fight along with griffith. But he's just too selfish and see guts and his group as a "tool" to reach his own goal
Griffith looked down on the people under him though, he looks down on the people of Falconia he saw them all as sacrifices stepping blocks and that makes him evil. He lost Guts because he looked down on him and not to him as a friend. Griffith however is not evil full on he's far gone when he becomes Femto Anything after that is just pretty showing maybe show of how he was when he was human.
Griffith's character flaw is that he only genuinely cares about himself and how he is perceived to the point that he won't just come out to Guts and express his feelings because it would prevent him from marrying into a royal family. Eventually this pushes Guts away and that's what actually leads to his downfall before the eclipse. I think this also misses a lot of the class commentary that's present in the Golden Age arc. Griffith's ambition can only be achieved through being manipulative and treating human life as disposable. Even given that he's highly competent does the peasantry really need a new king and his accompanying lords living in luxury while taxing their labour to fund it? The text explicitly critiques inherited privilege and the bloody swathe left in Griffith's wake was in service of getting something for himself, instead of dismantling the whole system and creating something new.
The same Griffith also mentioned that his action might have been influenced by Guts and Casca's child since he is inhabiting the childs body hence the reason why he saved Casca from the falling rocks....
Griffith will sacrifice the people of Falconia too. I'm calling it now. He never cared about anyone and he is getting away with it. You can say that from his pov he isn't evil, but he isn't good either. Falconians simply lack information and it's not just about "oh no. What did he do to reach this good ending?" No. He sacrificed his subordinates, his friends, the band of the hawk. He will do the same with the people of Falconia. He just wants to be the king. He didn't say anything about the kingdom thriving. He'd be fine with ruling an Elden Ring like realm, as long as he is in the top castle. Even more, he would sacrifice his citizens to defeat the Godhand and even casuality itself if he can get up to that point. He always soars higher and higher, sending down deadly tidal waves behind him, drowning anyone in his past, friend or foe. That's why nobody should trust him.
Honestly, a lot of times I felt like Griffith only cared about those who benefitted him, when guts left the hawks Griffith said "if he doesn't want to stay with me, then his life is forfeit", not to mention that he didn't hesitate to sacrifice his own friends for his dream, the same friends who helped him come so close to his dream, that right there shows me he only cared about his own goal. Maybe I'll understand more when I continue reading the manga
Good take. I'll love to see your opinion about Griffith's reaction to Guts when he finds again the crimson behelit in the lake, when Guts approaches him, he's like, don't come to me, don't get close to me or else, and when Guts touches Griffiths the behelit activates. What do you think of all this scene?
The most telling sign that Griffith *still* loves his few remaining old friends is him not only *sparing* Ricket for slapping him, but *warmly* bidding the boy farewell and letting him go. He *is* a monster, yes, but the innocent little boy he once was is still buried in there, deep inside, crying bloody tears of remorse for what he has become.
I think that most of the fandom blindly worships Guts as most of the Berserkverse blindly worships Griffith. (The absolute irony) The worst Griffith did was sacrificing his troops at the Eclipse and raping Casca. (There are other things, like spending the night with Charlotte, but to be fair, if Midland's king was sane, he shouldn't have reacted the way he did. And all the royalty meddling that ended up with some nobles lives). Sure, that's terrible, but it's nothing compared to what other characters did in the same universe, like Ganishka, Wyald, the Midland King, some Astral World beasts, Skull Knight... Just because those actions affect Guts directly, the fandom loses it's mind and conveniently forget all the things mentioned in this video that Griffith did. Don't get me wrong: I condone that Griffith sacrificed the Band of the Hawk, Guts has all the right in the world to hate him, and there's a possibility that Grifith might sacrifice his kingdom at some point. And Guts has to struggle with a destiny worse than death. It's no wonder his character resonates so well with the audience. But it's unfair to throw all the shit to Griffith while characters like Wyald exist (we all agree that the monkey was disgusting), Rickert slaps Griffith out of an emotional outburst putting Erica's and Luca's gang lives at risk (badass and understandable, but foolish at the same time), or Guts worked as a deadly mercenary, accidentally killed Adonis, almost raped Casca/Elaine, killed children pseudo-apostles to fight Rosine for his "dream" of killing Griffith, and many edgy things that he we don't know he did prior to the Black Swordsman's arc. There are no saints in Berserk, just living beings taking decisions. And Miura does an excellent job portraying this. That's why the manga is so good aside from it's gorgeous art. I would love to see how the fandom would react if Guts decides to sacrifice his party to become an Apostle/Godhand. Which seems like a possible scenario hinted by Flora, the archmages at Skellig Island, and even Guts's inner beast. They would probably justify it saying that Puck and Isidro are cringe.
@@madmank7881 You missed the point dude... I'm not justifying genocide nor absolute utilitarism. Read the second paragraph I wrote: the worst things that Griffith did was sacrificing the Band of the Hawk and raping Casca. What do we have left if we omit that? An excellent and charismatic leader who displays genunine consideration about his troops/citizens, achieves incredible results and keeps deadly monsters under his control. And that's how people see Griffith because they don't know he made the sacrifice. Sure, Griffith does everything for his own selfish reasons and what he did was terrible. But everybody (except Guts and Rickert) seem to be benefitted from that. Comparing Hitler with Griffith makes no sense... After the Eclipse, Griffith never started any kind of ethnical cleansing. All the opposite actually: Falconia emerging was the result of stopping Ganishka, who was about to rumble the whole continent, and now Kushanese and Midlanders are living together without problems. If anything, Ganishka was more similar to Hitler: he abused people from Midland in order to create his pseudo-apostles army. Gas chambers are no different from Ganishka's pisaca factory. You're reading the manga wrong, dude. Berserk explores the conflict between fate and free will. It's simple, but not as simple of who's right or who's wrong.
As much as the Godhand claims to be not human (emotions) and see the future what drives them is they are ironically still acting human they are just evil/petty. But in the end every person has a choice even if it’s destiny.
"If you lived in the metropolis, you'd think Griffith was a hero.." Nah, fam. The pattern is clear. Dude is buttering metropo-ppl up, and will sacrifice them just as quick.
I think yall forget that Guts made himself a slave right at the beginning when he lost the battle against griffith. He literally said: do with me as you wish and didn't keep his promise
Griffith is a villain solely because of the eclipse. He gave up his humanity (mostly) for his own selfish dream. any "good" griffith did before or after is built on the shameless sacrifice of the comrades he chose to slaughter. This makes him immoral and wicked, the definition of evil. Wether he has a soft spot for casca or guts after the fact doesnt matter. He still cursed them both, raped casca and traumatized guts. Your little anecdotes and apologetics are so pathetic its sickening. im convinced this video is constructed purely for views.
Relax man! he's just stating his views he doesn't need to be attacked for it. But you responded better than I did anything griffith does after sacrificing his friends is just pretty words on a curse... as his kingdom is a beautiful house on a grave site. xD
I reject the idea that there isn't an objective morality. I also think that Griffith is just keeping guts alive because he doesn't want guts to get the release he would get from death.
This is the down sound to winning all the time, when the inevitable reality of defeat and ruin befalls upon the person; they won't know how to deal with it in a productive manner.
I agree that it’s difficult to categorize Berserk characters as simply good or evil. Guts himself joins the Band of the Hawk & unquestioningly kills people he’d otherwise never have a problem with. However, Guts, Casca & everyone else were just pawns in Griffith’s conquest for glory. The Band of the Hawk was not assimilated because Griffith is benevolent. I think when Griffith sacrifices the people who rescued him from imprisonment (& who previously got him to where he was before that), he’s proved how expendable others are to him & further validated Guts’ decision to walk away in search of his own path. The Band of the Hawk were simply performing a service for Griffith in exchange for profit. None of them owed Griffith their lives. Also, Griffith showing restraint by not killing Guts & Casca when the Skull Knight appears, suggests he could’ve had the same restraint before forcing himself onto Casca. Which served as nothing more than an act of sheer malice.
Your wrong, Griffith lost everything because of himself and his own weakness not because of guts.... And also another way to look at it is that guts is the one who gained everything for him, did all the hard work whilst he attended royal functions and rubbed shoulders with royals.
If Griffith is sparing or even defending Guts and Casca now, wouldn't that be taking back his sacrifice and possibly nulling his contract with the Idea of Evil?
4:00 guts just wanted his own dream and journey plus Guts heard Griffith so called ideals which made guts want his own dream thus leaving(which he would come back)
Griffith is such a good person. I mean what good person wouldnt sacrifice all his "friends" so he can achieve his dream. All of the band of the hawk members should feel lucky to be sacrificed for such a great cause. Its not like any members had their own hopes and dreams. Guts is such a hater, if anything its all Guts fault for leaving. Poor Griffith 😢😢😢
You act as if Guts was any better. In fact, Guts is worse. Guts sacrificed the small town in the Black swordsman arc just to kill the snake apostle when he DID NOT HAVE TO. He stated that he doesn't care about the people dying and that they deserve to die. Griffith on the other hand, has never done anything the band disagreed to. They agreed to die for Griffith's dream. Otherwise they wouldn't risk their lives in the battlefield. The people in the town of that Snake apostle were innocent and didn't agree to die for Guts' revenge. Not to mention that Guts is a literal child killer. I think that's much worse than revenge r@p3. He has also done ZERO good for the world while Griffith brought peace and progress to the world of Berserk with Falconia.
@@riverblack123 no where in my comment did I justify anything guts did. I never even said guts was a good person. You clearly didn't read what I wrote properly. Also I must of missed the part in the story where the band of the hawk agreed to be brutally killed by demon's cause their leader decided his dream was worth killing the people who just freed him from torture. Honestly I hope you were joking cause acting like Griffith ain't that bad is crazy considering what he has done.
@@bc6953 Griffith is horrible, don't get me wrong, but I think he is overhated. The band of the hawk were never innocent, they are hired killers to whoever pays them big. They are hypocrites. They have no problem risking their lives for Griffith's dream, yet they are mad when they have to die to make it happen? Griffith also has done the incredible achievement of bringing peace and progress to the world of freaking Berserk.
@@riverblack123 wouldn't you be mad if someone you trusted sacrificed you. There's a difference between them agreeing to fight for him and Griffith choosing to sacrifice the band of the hawk. They chose to fight not be slaughtered. No one is to blame but Griffith, he went to the princess knowing the possible outcome but he went anyway. Yet instead of living with the consequences he instead killed the people who cared for him and just rescued him
Yup this guys new to berserk, half of the shit he said is just straight up wrong or forgot major plot points like the moon light Child. I feel like you were making this video noticed all the holes in your arguments and just said fuck it I’ll go with that
@@madmank7881 no guts was the exception to that rule that is revealed when he offers guts as final sacrifice like u where only thing that almost interfered with my dream “out all the 10 and thousands only you and you alone”- Griffith Griffith was just pillow talking to charlotte
Did you read the manga? Because Even an apostle wouldn't make the choice of sacrificing his own daughter over his newborn life. Griffiths pride and ambition was more important than his relationships, army, romantic relationships and life. The manga makes this ultra clear. Your take on this is horrific, as you have to justify the slaughter of the hawks and the raep of casca, which was meant to humiliate Guts before killing him. In your words, Griffith is someone who did nothing wrong, even though he totally had the choice to reject the offer he was given and "die a martyr" for his cause.
Nice vid, i especially like that you brought up Alexander. That's pretty much what Miura was going for with Griffith. A great man of history who stands above the commoners morality. Those who think people like Alexander, Napoleon or Genghis Khan wouldn't do the same as Griffith are delusional. Yet we don't remember any of those people as complete monsters but primarily as great men who changed history. Griffith is the same as them. The hate he receives is overblown and stems from us experiencing the story through Guts' lens.
For me Griffith got lost after losing to Guts, whom he considered his equal and maybe even friend ( if we look at how close they were, right from the beginning ) so it was like a double punch, losing to the only person you’re close with and then seeing him leave without being able to do anything about it
Does everyone forget that his followers didn't care about him short of what they could get from him succeeding? They were leeches, plain and simple. When he couldn't deliver, they all ran to someone else who they could latch onto. They didn't love Griffith for him whatsoever, it was purely transactional. IMO that was one of the points the author was trying to make in all of this. If you've ever been successful yourself and ended up with sycophants that constantly praised you and wanted to be around you to share in your limelight only to be ditched as soon as you took a fall, you would completely understand this point. From a "Nature's Law" perspective, his followers earned exactly what they got, by choosing to be dependent on someone else they didn't even care for. And let's remember that Griffith didn't do any of these deeds to be a good person. So you can't suddenly judge his choice against such a standard when it comes to the choice of sacrifice. He never intended to walk a "good path" to begin with, he was simply achieving his goal. He was a convenient choice for them to NOT have to stand on their own two feet and achieve their dreams by themselves. They practically demanded it from him. Sorry to say but that makes them just as selfish as he ever was. In this case it's just one predator eating another lesser predator. Especially due to the fact that his followers were never "good people" (except maybe a few characters could be judged as such). The lack of honor in trying to kill Guts as a group against a single man, only to have Casca have to come save their butts and then ultimately, Griffith having to step in. At that point, Griffith saved all of their lives for being selfish and careless - they should have died for those actions they chose themselves. And if anyone has ever pursued a dream, only to be distracted by a loved one, you may understand Griffith's point of "if you touch me..." at the eclipse. It comes to a point where you have built up animosity against someone who yes, you ultimately loved, but because it all fell to nothing, you feel cheated. You feel as if all those years of your life were stolen away by this person who "got in the way" and you happily say screw it, I'm done with you, all I got from being with you was a screwed up life and I'm happy to move on. Almost maliciously. Remember that Muira writes all of these characters from a purely humanistic point of view. This is all about the REAL world of grey morality where nobody is truly a hero or a villain. Everyone is a selfish creature with perhaps some more amiable traits than others. Even the apostles are given glimpses into their humanity, at least to their ultimate choice of becoming one. Evil actions yes, but in the end, done for humanistic desires. In which case don't forget that being human IS to be good and evil, selfish and altruistic - all of it. It's also one of the reasons some people love Farnese so much, because regardless of her past evil deeds, she decides to confront her being helpess and she COPES. She rides through it, not seeking denial to avoid the pain but simply heads straight through it. It makes her one of the most redeemable characters in the whole arc. Again, originally as a character who committed many many acts of evil, but in the end is human. And she chooses to become more human and accepting of both herself and the world around her. As much as people pick this series apart, IMO there is a separate layer that wraps around all of the story and the characters within it. The level of nuance is so beyond most people's perception that they forget what all these depictions really are supposed to be like - real people. Real people with real faults, regardless of what slice of life they come from or how they are to be judged. Our world is sick and full of sick people and Berzerk has no qualms about mirroring that within its own universe. It's what makes it so easy to relate to because it is so on par with our own. Perhaps many can't make those connections because they are in denial of their own world they live in, but that's not the fault of the writer, let alone the characters within it. In the end, the characters are to be judged as humans, not what the reader wants them to be. Not as fable-level ideals placed on pedestals to somehow fulfil their inner hopes and desires of what they want to see in the world. The story and characters JUST ARE. No need to skew any of it just for yourself.
I got more out of your comment than the video itself. Very well put. This is why I love reading other people's takes. You just shifted my paradigm. To a better one at that. Thanks.
This should be the top comment, but people are too busy typing with their feelings. I wanted to make a similar point to people who are conflating evil with bad. Griffith has done bad things but his negative actions were a human reaction to circumstance through the lens of his character, like wanting to strangle Guts for leaving. He had serious character flaws that he chose to throw away rather than work through them like Guts, people keep bringing up that Griffith raped Casca, well Guts sexually assaulted her because a part of him wanted control over her because he lost it to Griffith, paralleling why Griffith did that to Casca. The difference is Griffith moved on and Guts tried to control that aspect of himself, and given that he is the Moonlight Boy, it's possible that will be his downfall. Griffith and Berserk, in that sense, are less about good vs. evil and adherence to Jungian and Nietzche philosophy. In an era where antagonists are portrayed as morally grey and/or humanized, the classic villain is evil for the sake of being evil, like Wyald. Griffith, at the present time, is mainly concerned with his ambition, but even as a man, he did not want to make more people suffer than needed to get there. He isn't exclusively selfish or narcissistic like many people are saying, but he's got his own interests to preserve in a world where both men and women are regularly betrayed, raped, and killed. The only curve ball is that Griffith, in the story's semi-canon, serves a being that is a manifestation of human suffering and perpetuates it in order to exist (Idea of Evil) and it seems like he might sacrifice Falconia. I think most of the fandom suggests Griffith is a villain but he's just a passive antagonist to Guts. Hence why Tranquil suggests, as Miura said, Griffith is Griffith.
I didn't read the entire comment but you saying they didn't care about Griffith besides what they could get out of him is proven false by the story itself, the fact they were valid sacrifices meant that they all loved each other. It was a mutual love between them, not a transaction. They were understandably disheartened he was crippled because they'd never go back to their former glory but that doesn't mean they didn't care about him, after all they stayed to help rescue him while half of them deserted. There's no case to make that they were using him
@@Sernival The god hand are LITERALLY called evil demons and ARE LITERALLY serving this thing called the IDEA OF EVIL which is LITERALLY made as a reaction to humanity's need for something EVIL to exist to blame their problems on. They're demon's that rape torture and eat people for fun. The god hand thrives off the bad in humanity, the whole process to become an Apostle is for someone to "shed their last bit of humanity, leaving a hole in their heart for EVIL to pour in" direct quote from the story btw. Griffith is not a good guy because he has the Crimson Beheleit which only goes into the possession of those THAT POSSES THE QUALITIES OF EVIL. I hope you don't think Miura made Griffith rape Casca in a pool of her and his friends blood making her man watch while being pinned down because he's "not a bad guy" Pointing to "Jungian and Nietzche philosophy" People are taking that incorrectly, Miura is most likely using that to show while Griffith is the image of what most people would call good deep down he's literally LITERALLY a demon god, basically the antichrist who's brainwashing the masses to worship him while Guts is depicted as a psychotic evil lunatic in all black but he actually is the one fighting against the evil trying to be a good guy after realizing he was becoming a monster himself after waging war against them, he's the hero atm protecting villages and such from the hoards of demon's GRIFFITH COMMANDS Their are cases of good and bad people in Berserk, was Donovan not a bad guy? What about Wyald? What about the King? The story just wants you to know that the line can be blurred. It's not always black & white, but IT CAN be. Such as with Griffith...the mass murdering rapist that's in charge of more mass murdering rapists....Oh yea, not to mention that the people of Falconia that died in his battles? He's sending them all to hell lol, he's totally not a bad guy...
People really like to overlook the fact that Griffith was manipulated into accepting the God Hand’s deal by the God Hand themselves and still hesitated to accept. They also overlook the fact that it was essentially ‘accept the deal, or die’. And that if forced into the same situation Griffith was, every single one of them would do the same.
Just because Griffith did nothing wrong, doesn't mean he did anything right. Miura stated himself he did not write the story under the "good vs. evil" framework.
True
Just because moral ambiguity is part of the series doesnt absolve griffith of his horrible evil actions. You are engaging in flimsy apologetics solely for views
Dude you need to reread the manga. Either that or you made this vid to strictly get views because you left many important details out. Griffith is a narcissistic, machiavelian, psychopath before he was ever femto. Narcissism, he told guts after the water fight that he will decide the place he dies. After selling his body to the rapey noble, he committed self harm because his machiavelian and narcissistic parts of his identity were at odds with eachother. His narcissism would never let him think he was a victim. His machiavelian nature needed him to be. Casca hugs him, a narcissist loves to be looked up to, a machiavelian person can't look weak in front of his soldiers. IT WASNT ALTRUISM. He tried to kill guts while being rescued by him, and he tried to rape casca before the eclispe. BEFORE HE WAS FEMTO. Then, despite the band taking care of him, admiring his broken ass, and still loving him, what's he do? He steels the cart away and chases a delusion of his child self going toward his dream. He doesn't and never cared about any of the hawk beyond how they could help him reach his goal. Then, right before choosing to sacrifice, Guts, the man he loved most in the world, comes to save him from the godhand, what does he do, smiles and says I sacrifice. It's not that Griffith did anything wrong, he IS EVERYTHING WRONG. HE IS EVIL. HE ALWAYS WAS, BEFORE AND AFTER THE ECLISPE. I get Miura's interviews contradict this, but I'm nearly certain, like most great authors, he didn't want he creative process to affect the way people interpret the story. Griffith is the pinnacle of the psychological dark triad. I am almost certain Miura wrote Griffith with the dark triad of psychology in mind. Also, narcissist are often childish, the machiavelian aspects speak for themselves. Griffith says none of the hawk are his friends. Yeah, he is the closest thing to personified evil that any human can be, regardless of perspective
This video is a weak attempt at pretending the main antagonist of the series is the "victim" Anyone who losses their shit because a grown man goes and follows his own way, is a possessive physcopath that was likely to get you killed when he got bored of you. But hey get them clicks my guy!
Even in the Dionysian sense Griffith is bad. The eclipse is an example of the Hinterwelt (or back-world if you've read a bad translation), a concept that weak people use to escape their own physical shortcomings. Such as Christians who only achieve victory in heaven or Plato's Republic.
Griffith did not earn his strength, whereas Guts did, and Guts is undefeated in the physical realm because he is a Warrior Aristocrat.
Griffith is basically a nerd who got mad that his jock best friend who he grew up with fucked his crush, so like many weak people do, he imagined a scenario where HE could be the strong one, only thing is since it's Berserk and everything bleak and painful, it actually fucking worked.
If Griffith healed and grew his body to even better than before, gained the skill to best Guts, and dominate Casca, and then claim his throne, then he'd be virtuous. Then he'd have done nothing wrong, instead he appealed to the God Hand like a bitch.
Also King Gaiseric is still based, fuck outta here! 🤣 I'm glad he tortured Void, I hope he does it again.
There are many issues with this take on Griffith's character and morality. The major issue with your argument that Griffith is somehow morally neutral comes in the fact that he acts selfishly. Almost always. As you said, The Band of The Hawk would view Griffith as evil for his sacrifice while citizens of Falconia would view their king as benevolent. Good and evil are relative ideas, and the personal viewpoints of characters dictate what they view as good and evil. However, while citizens love Griffith for their new utopia, they would be horrified by the truth. Of course, they would be horrified by the eclipse, but more so, they'd be horrified that he was directly involved with the merging of the astral and physical planes. The reason Falconia is a safe haven is that after Griffith was reborn, the world of Berserk as we knew it changed. Fantastical and demonic entities now roam rampant across Midland and beyond. The merging was directly linked with Griffth wanting to rule his own kingdom. Society for common folk and royals alike exploded into a cacophony of bloodshed and chaos because one man wanted to pursue his dream. His dream was not to provide a safe haven for everyone on Earth, his dream was to be King, no matter how much bloodshed was required. In this sense, Griffiths's rebirth, the merging of planes, and Falconia's creation are eerily similar to the eclipse. Another bloody step in his endless ambition. As for the Band of The Hawk and Guts, we again see that Griffith's selfishness gets in the way of proper judgment and just action. Griffith treats his "friends" like toys, and tools that he owns and controls. When Guts, arguably Griffiths's only true friend, attempts to leave the Band of The Hawk we see a perfect example of this. Griffith thinks he owns Guts, he doesn't understand the normal idea of what a friend is. And when Griffth finally loses that friend, he can't handle it. If Griffith was a good friend, if he understood what a friendship actually looked like, then he would allow Guts to leave. A good friend would allow their pal to pursue their dreams. After all, Guts was aiding Griffth in his dream. He was laying down his life every day for Griffith. Yet, after years of service, Guts cant leave without a duel? Griffth was willing to kill the man! It is not reasonable to claim Guts is responsible for Griffiths melt down and subsequent torture. In fact, committing treason by sleeping with the princess in an upset fit of sorrow condemned his other remaining allies to a life on the run, if they werent outright killed. Another selfish act, in this case, to satiate his percieved loss of Gut's. Are you suggesting that Gut's is responsible for the emotional well being of Griffth? A grown man? Is Guts then too responsible for the Eclipse, the rape of Casca and the death of The Band of The Hawk? I dont even have to explain why the eclipse is fucking evil. There is no argument for that somehow being morally grey. He sexually assualted Cacsa, used her, just to make Gut's suffer for his own suffering. Suffering he could have prevented if he had simply accepted that Gut's was his own person. The result of the Eclipse doesnt serve a greater purpose. The Eclipse served Griffiths ends, to sastisy his need for dominance. Comparing him to Abraham Lincoln makes no sense whatsoever, Im not sure why you included that. Ironically, your comparison to Alexander the Great shows exactly why Griffth in fact did something wrong. Alexander was as you said a excellent conquerer but a terrible leader. Im not sure what you're point with that was either, especially because Alexander did not serve a greater purpose, he served himself just as Griffith does in Berserk. So while the comparison is accurate, I dont understand how hes an historical example of a leader serving a "better purpose". Both Griffith and Alexander did not have to kill thousands, they chose to for thier own gain. Abraham Lincoln had to unify a country as President. Your comparison to Skull Knight also doesnt make much sense. Skull Knight is never claimed to be a good indvidual and he himself, as we see in the final existing chapters of Berserk, looks back on his time as Gaiseric as foolish. In fact Skull Knight serves as a figure to avoid becoming. He is Guts shade. Skull Knight is what Gut's will become if he continues on a path of vengence. Also, how is his torture of Void/Prophet in any way worse than the actions of Griffith? One could claim they are both equally cruel perhaps, but more so? Than the eclipse? Another thing I noticed is how you brushed off Gut's reaction to Griffith on the Hills of Swords, yet hyper fixated on Griffths reaction to seeing Guts after hes rescued from captivity. How is Griffiths anger towards Guts for being tortured for his own actions more justifiable than Guts reaction to encountering the rapist of his love and the murderer of his freinds? I'm very confused with the point your trying to make. This video can be summed up by saying, people are who they are. But what does that mean for the story of Berserk? You're ignoring the fact that Guts and Griffith are narrative foils. Miura claimed "Griffith is Griffth" because he wanted us as readers to understand that there are motives and circumstances for actions. He wanted his characters feel human, for us to understand his ideas about humanity and what it means to be human. At the same time, the story activley condemns Griffith's actions. The difference between him and Guts is that Guts can accept his failures. Guts is willing to feel the consequnces of his actions and to keep moving. Griffith stays stagnant. He cant handle his own failure and instead makes thinsg worse by repressing his emotions. The duel before Guts leaves showcases this idea perfectly. Griffth was too busy becoming a noble, trying to acheive his dream, that he couldnt see the importance of his freinds. Guts on the other hand activley made strides to grow, finally realising that he needed to leave the Hawk's in order to discover the meaning of his life. Gut's outgrew his dependence on Griffth along with surpassing him in his swordsmanship. In summary, I vehemently disagree with the basis of this video and I think you should perhaps reread some parts about Berserk in order to better understand Miuras ideas about morality.
Totally this.
Griffith = selfish
And even normal selfish people can stop themselves from doing things that harm others out of empathy.
But Griffith is a whole other level of selfish. The only time he was selfless was risking his life for Guts against Zodd. But one could even argue he did that for himself anyway, because he didn't want to lose Guts.
I'm in total agreement with your contentions to this video's message. 👐
@@figmenter Thanks man, glad people seem to be disagreeing with this guys opinion. I'm very puzzled by what point he's trying to make. I feel as though he came up with the idea for the video from Miura's quote about evil and good, then just rode the coattails of that. I think a better approach would be to objectively talk about morality or moral ambiguity in Berserk.
@@mpartner43 a lot of people disagreed with this take. The likes to dislikes ratio proves it, as he's mentioned on his talk with Ryan.
Bautiful take
The argument can be made that he is a grey character tho. He does alot of terrible things but also alot of great things as well. Is he selfish? Sure. Most people who want a kingdom are. Most people who were in the band of the hawk were. Griffith still did alot of things that benefited both himself and the group. He did not have to personally save casca or guts numerous times or prostitute himself so that the band could eat/have supplies. He couldve had someone else do it. He also didnt have to create a perfect kingdom or insist everyone has a chance at a better life, he couldve simply been like all the other rulers. Saying that he isnt morally grey is blatantly wrong regardless of his intentions
Yes, Griffith is so kind to let Casca and Guts live after traumatising them for life. Griffith has done some good things but that in no way erases all the evil he has done. The r*pe of Casca was purely malicious and he had no excuse for it. He could have tortured Guts as he was, if he wanted to get revenge at him so badly.
@@TiMMAY0003 I mean who told you, you was a good person?
@@ImARandomUploader7820 When I was 8 my Grandma called me her "Little tootsy pop" so I must be a good person
@Sanchez No, you're a bad person.
If escaping the consequences of your actions is not wrong, then he did nothing wrong.
The moment he decided to go sleep with princess Charlotte was the moment he already eff'd up his life.
Guts leaving the band of the hawk didn't give Griffith the license to deflower Charlotte. He kinda did it for himself and no one else.
The consequence, he very well knew, would be the horrible death of the band of the hawk at the hands of Midland's armies, his eventual capture, torture, and death.
But he chose to do it, nevertheless. And when given the choice to actively maim kill and dismember his team mates, in order to escape the consequence of his actions. He, again, chose to do so, for himself alone, at the cost of everyone who helped him throughout his conquest.
In the whole scheme of things, Griffith probably did nothing wrong for himself, and maybe perhaps Falconia's citizens. But to actively choose to do those things to the people who helped you through the years, is kinda... wrong...
Came to say basically this
Took the words right out of my mouth not kinda wrong all the way wrong
@CW even if Guts didn't come back, Griffith is still responsible for his own wellbeing and the wellbeing of his mercenaries band, being their leader and all. One can't shift the blame for one's own actions.
Looking at Guts, when his beast of darkness got the better of him and attempted to rape Casca, he took full responsibility and distanced himself from her by asking help from Farnese. When he took off for 2 years and lost track of Casca in the process, he blamed no one but himself for chasing his dream of revenge. At first he kinda blamed Rickert and crew a bit, but realized it's entirely his own doing.
Having extramarital sex does not make Griffith evil. It's not as though he went into the situation thinking "yeah we're gonna fuck and then a maid will spy on us through a keyhole in the middle of night and then i can get tortured for a year"
@@4kTthJrN true, having sex with the princess wasn't inherently evil.
Evil? of course not.
Wrong? kinda. It was a risk going into it knowing what he knows, given his status at that moment.
For a man as smart and tactful as Griffith is, the moment he decided to sleep with Charlotte that night, he knew he was putting himself and the entire band at risk.
Griffith had a choice all the same and he gave himself over to evil..even before the eclipse
no such thing as evil
the band pledged their live to Griffith's dream, so he used them for that
@@sirjordancarter No, at any point, while being apart of the band, they could have left, not fought in some battle and went on to do their own thing. Griffith took that option away from them. Also Guts didn't want to die for his cause, he already left, instead of respecting Guts choice, Griffith saw that as betrayal and in revenge raped Casca Infront of him.
@@sirjordancarterwdym no such thing as evil
@@kai-loongsong583 it's not a thing, good and evil aren't objective
🤨 -Edit: Watched it 3 times and each time I hear yes Griffith r*ped Casca, but... 🤨, video should've ended there 🤣
He's discussing the results of Griffith's actions, not just him as a person. Did you listen to him describing how someone in Falconia who was starving prior would see Griffith as good for bringing them prosperity and giving them their lives back?
Good and evil are not just intentions or singular actions. Consequences of actions are far reaching that "ooh this person did that so judge everything else as evil both in intent and result".
@@phyrr2 I never said anything about Griffith as a person maybe reread my comment. He said Griffith's done nothing wrong but then proceed to say he r*ped Casca at the very beginning of the video which I hope you also think is something wrong to do, that was my point... 🤨
He didn't say that, you're misrepresenting his ideas, which is funny because I read another comment of someone saying he didn't bring up Griffith raping Casca at all.
@@Sernival Well you and that person obviously never watched the video. You defitnitely just skipped it and went to the comments...🤨 in the very beginning of the video he literally said that smh. 🤣 Some of y'all gotta watch the video before just reading comments and believing it.
The way I see it Femto is NOT Griffith Femto is a demonic entity absolutely transformed - all good drained from Griffith's soul. So it's not really logical to judge Griffith the man by Femto's actions. If thousands have died for your dream and Gods come to you at a moment of tortured desolation and tell you everything is in vain if you refuse a final sacrifice to achieve that dream it's hard for me to judge him for accepting. And when they transformed him into something else that's no longer Griffith.
Just because someone has done good things and has gone through a lot doesn't mean that them doing terrible things is suddenly justifiable. No matter the circumstance assaulting someone like he did is evil no matter the actions surrounding it.
That's why you'll be a weak flame to feed the supermen
@@hottaco4974 what the fuck are you on about
That's assuming that the person doing the good deeds did them to be good. Did Griffith somehow owe anything to anyone? He had sycophants who became dependent upon him because they wouldn't follow their own dream and instead became infuriated when he could no longer fulfil that role for them. If anything his followers are more selfish than he is because they deemed him to have no value once he couldn't do anything for them.
In the end they got sacrificed to a person they didn't actually care about. They only cared about what he could do for them.
@@phyrr2 while I'd still bet on a handful actually personally caring for him. Just because he was being used doesn't make it right that he got them murdered and especially it doesn't excuse him assaulting casca she cared for him deeply and did not try to use him. Again just because someone has been wronged it does not excuse morality and does not let them have a free pass to do much more atrocious things in return, especially to people who did nothing wrong like casca
@@TheBoss-jq6gi i feel you, it doesn't make that shit right lol. Doesn't make his assault during the eclipse anymore excused to me. Rather they are Selfish sycophants or not, they still put their lives on the line for him so be it self interest or true friendship it wasn't like griffith didn't benefit at all. Interpretations are all fine and dandy but putting so much effort into justifying a meme seems a bit silly to me lol
Griffith wasn’t destroyed when guts left, He was destroyed when he found out guts could have just ended his entire prophecy and everything he’s ever worked for in the blink of an eye. You see Griffith thought nothing could ever stop him, That’s why he had such high faith in being able to defeat guts. But guts is so goddamn hardcore not even a demon prophecy can stop him from killing a man.
But, it has, for the past 20 years, he has never been able to even touch Griffith.
@@TheOUTSIDER1995 In just one moment Guts could've ended it all by not saving him or by merely not controlling his strength enough in their final duel in the golden arc.
@@Justafeint He couldn't even if he wanted to, Griffith was choosen to become Femto by any means, let's say Guts actually impaled Griffith there, first he would have been saved by a miracle, leaving him wounded but in the verge of dead, then he would have summoned thr God Hand to become Femto.
I would have been worse.
@@TheOUTSIDER1995 You don't understand. Even if Griffith knew about causalities there is still that slim feeling of something being so close to taking everything away even if by some miracle you achieved it. Guts was this close to taking it all away and Griffith thinks that. So it infuriates him even more.
@@Justafeint That's the point, he was never close, and now he knows that, current Griffith doesn't care about Guts, neither it has grudge towards him, he could easily kill Guts in several occasions but he simply ignores him most of the time.
Hell, you can say he even spares his life, Griffith is so narcissistic that he won't give Guts any sort of meaning to his life, and that actually makes Guts mad as hell.
This is the beauty of Miura's work, the ambiguity of morality and the blurring of lines between good and evil. Historical figures that are revered today did absolutely terrible things, Miura did an excellent job with creating these two characters and both are deeply flawed and human, realistic morality is very hard to write and portray. Griffith is such an amazing character, so much deeper and nuanced than most in the manga.
So basically Griffith did everything wrong to make his dream revive (simple explaination)
The fact that Griffith built Falconia on top of the old city where everyone was sacrificed before.... I think it was evil intentions. Get all the humans together for an even larger sacrifice to become something even more powerful.
Maybe all for guts, thinking they could be together as godhand. Gutts would reject the offer obviously, battle ensues, repeat eclipse, themes of time being a circle? I like the idea of that being the ending.
@@jojijojo3566 that is very devilman crybaby-esc and the ending was good but i dont want the berserk to end like that
Dumb take. He didn't kill guts on the hill of swords because of the internal conflict he has with "the child". Let's just say it isn't for that reason. It would be because Griffin is even more arrogant now. He probably thinks, "Thanks Guts for bringing me to my breaking point and now I get to be an all powerful Demon" Furthermore, no one told Griffin to go into Charlotte's room that night. That to me was the downfall of the Band of the Hawks. Guts deals with his suffering, but Griffin can't deal with his suffering/loss and always has to find a way out.
Griffith did nothing wrong bitche
The biggest tragedy in all of berserk is Guts not killing Griffith sooner.
Casualty
Woah killed? Still in the GA
Is that even possible ? i mean manga is kinda end too , is there any clarificarion not theory that , that is possible ?
And Griffith should’ve gutted Guts during that first encounter but na he wanted him in his kingdom
Yeah, but once you go down the "everything is relative" route then you can just argue in favor of justifying anything which just renders the whole argument pointless. I've seen a lot of debates regarding this position and it usually devolves into someone saying, "None of us are qualified to judge what is right or wrong including myself, so it would be arrogant of me to make that judgement." The opposition usually responds with a hardline position that something seemingly universally reviled like genocide/slavery/rape/etc. is "definitely wrong." This usually causes awkward stutters of confusion and embarrassment as people realize that the "everything is relative" position can be used to justify even slavery or genocide thus making anyone who takes that side look foolish.
Regarding Guts leaving, if Griffith's attitude is "you owe me" then he never truly loved Guts as a brother but saw him as an investment. The whole reason Guts leaves in the first place is because he overhears Griffith admitting that he could never truly respect a man who just lives for another without having his own ambitions and goals. If that's the case Griffith should've been happy for Guts to find his own path rather than hope to keep using him. Guts didn't even leave him "high and dry" as Griffith had more than enough strength and support to achieve his goals regardless. Instead Griffith was impatient and fell through his own risky behavior of consorting with a woman who was to be considered off-limits.
Also, regarding the first meme that splashes onscreen, being willing to FIGHT to accomplish a collectively beneficial dream is not the same as being willing to literally DIE for someone else's personal ambition.
I agree wholeheartedly. Arguing that everything is relative is such non statement. It doesn't help that in this video, the argument is used to make actions like rape and murder morally neutral. Griffiths actions are evil and I don't know why people ever argue they aren't
Hold up … let him cook. 🔥 finally, someone who knows what tf they talking about.
This whole video had me cringing. W comment.
@dark zombie. In actuality, morality is not subjective. Morality is objective. If you truly believe that morality is subjective, you are wrong.
When someone asks me "What is wrong with atheists, why don't you let them be" it seems like they don't really know anything about what implied set of philosophies it involves.
For context: This video is based upon Nietzche's del##!oal philosophy
Before any salty atheist comes to poke fun at me (funny... they never have any arguments without resorting to an illogical hypothesis called macroevolution) alluding to talking snakes and fairytales: No, I reject that as well, I'm a genuine freethinker.
"Griffith does not hate Guts" Yeah, cause to him he got his quote on quote revenge even though the reason he even went to jail was his own doing.
Griffith is a hypocrite. Guts had to accept everyday bad day. Griffith didn’t once. Guts is the true super human.
Devils in the details. It’s ironic that the Godhand claim to be emotionless yet they act upon emotion the entire series just the narcissistic/greed kind
the only thing Griffith messed up on was speaking loud enough for guts to overhear him talking to Charlotte about not respecting a man who didn't have his own dreams and a man like that would never be his equal. he put that in guts head unknowingly which made guts leave the band causing his demise.
And also not asking Guts why he was leaving in the first place (like a good boss/friend would), instead forcing his hand. He could have walked with Guts and taked it over if he didn't just try to use force right away.
Thats really not his fault. Guts shouldve minded his business and wait for griffith’s return or not take everything so personal
@@Dogofwar9 is your friend said he's not your friend because you don't have any money what are you going to do?
@@madmank7881 i wouldve thought he was joking because he is more broke then I am. Everybody knew guts was griffith’s favorite they said it every other chapter. Guts was being dramatic and blew it out of proportion only to now suffer knowing that he left the griffith and the band for no reason. Mind you plenty of other ppl liked him but he didnt care. He wanted griffith’s attention so bad for no reason especially when you compare it to what he says to casca
I think Griffith saving Casca is actually the moon childs instinct taking action
Griffith is the moon child there not separate Griffith just doesnt keep the memory of the moon child
@@Mrpeely1 yea
It was the moon child Griffy doesn't care for either Guts or Casca. : )
Its literally what in manga said , why people thinking it was him , he doesnt care about those people anymore wether they dead or alive
@@Mrpeely1 Griffith himself says "these feelings might belong to that child who took over my vessel." in the manga lol.
Ah I get it, “He rapes, but he saves. And he saves more than he rapes.”
Which would be hilarious EXCEPT….this isn’t Dave Chapelle or a comedy special, man. This is a college-freshman devil’s advocate take that at its core ignores basic humanity. I love Griffith as a fictional character because of how well he’s written but even the writing is far from “there is no good or evil in Berserk”. Memes shouldn’t be taken seriously and just because you can argue the logic doesn’t mean it’s not fucked.
Except the Griffith that raped was not Griffith, it was Femto, a remake of Griffith with no capability of having morals. It’s because he was a demon with no attachments that he was able to do what he did after the sacrifice.
@@triumphant8637 every Apostle in Berserk made a choice or sacrificed something to become a demon, they didn't become evil after the sacrifice because it was the catalyst in their demonhood. So its more likely that he was able to become a demon because he had no attachments or capability for morals.
@@rufaro- there are different reasonings for the sacrifice, we are talking about the rape. That was Femto. Obviously it’s still a wrong, heart wrenching, betrayal, but it’s deeper/more to it than what you make of it.
@@triumphant8637 I think our disagreement is saying Femto ≠ Griffith because to me apostles are not “remakes”. But regardless, the rape was Griffith because of the intentionality. If Femto ≠ Griffith he’d have no reason to parade Casca’s body in front of Guts specifically while looking at him dead in the eye. It’s also implied that he tried forcing himself on her in the carriage but was too weak. And even if that was because he’d been in a prisoner for a year, he clearly took notice of their relationship. Prior to the eclipse any time the two were together we are shown Griffith for a reason.
femto is griffith transformed it is true its him but it is also not a human anymore(therefore operating differently), also you cannot pass the judgement to griffith in the eclipse because it is clear knowledge of what he was doing due to his mental state as he was literally agonizing, adding to that griffith had no severed ties with his humanity when the eclipse happened his loss of humanity and care for the band happened during the transformation, why i say that? because the sacrifice requires someone who is meaningful to you, as if losing that person or people is similar to losing a part of your soul. that is clearly explained in the black swordsman arc.
If we see it from Nietzsche's morality, obviously there is no specific good and evil because he wanted to destroy Christian morality because he thought it limited us and made us suffer but if you use the logical sense and the ethics griffith is insane
Griffith have ups and downs i am not judge him(except r*pe casca)
Joke:(Griffith jealous because casca take guts )
You all don't read Nietzsche and be putting words in his mouth. You only read the title of a book and you think you understand
Imagine someone killing you then some people out of nowhere says “well he did nun wrong he’s innocent”
The godhand ritual freezes ones emotions, which is why griffith did not feel any anger, hatred towards gutts. It is a false transcendent state he has reached.
Griffith did not save casca, moonlight child did. His body moved against his will.Griffith could care less for casca.
Griffith is a narcissist, everything is me, me, me for him. Gutts leaving hurt him so much because he was the one person he cared for, and even then he did not acknowledge what gutts means to him, and still doesnt.
It's "Guts"
Griffith could care less for Casca? So he cared a little?
The guy transformed, lowered down to where guts was, then had casca be lowered down to him and assault her all the while he is looking guts in the eyes with pure intense hatred and people still manage to claim it was femto and that he had lacked any sort of emotions during that act.
Then what was the purpose of all of that considering it does nothing in furthering his goals.
I genuinely thought 99% of people were memeing with the griffith did nothing wrong sentiment before clicking on this video, which i also expected to be satire going in lmao.
people still saying "Griffith did nothing wrong" in 2022 not as a joke? Damn son, the consequences of a global pandemic i guess
Guts owed Griffith nothing, and trying to justify his actions because of that is frankly sickening. Rethink This.
it's exactly because he owed hm everything that he left. he wasn't anything without Griffith, he had no reason to fight. Yes he was very strong, but his fight with 100 is pivotal because he understands it all means nothing
How about u dont tell people what to Think? "Rethink this" - relax kim Jong, other people can have other ideas
@Johnny Bong Jovi What if my idea was to violent your mom's consent. Would it be a valuable opinion ? Ofc not right buddy
Bozo 🤡🫵
@@maximusd26 yea no griffith is the reason guts left him after overhearing him he didn’t owe griffith anything nor did griffith owe him anything
It amazes me how every video I watch there are new ways of thinking about solely this one character. It just goes to show how amazing Berserk is. Personally I think that knowing everything that has happened, as readers, Griffith IS EVIL. There is no denying it. But of course, in Griffith’s perspective, the Band of The Hawk members are just pawns. In his mind they would be nothing if they weren’t “rescued” by him and let them be part of his crew, and further more, in his goal/dream.
At the end, the things he has done can’t be erased and have no excuse. We can see things with other perspectives but ultimately what he did was wrong.
Griffith finding the toy soldier in HIS battlefield is what broke him. He confesses to Casca after selling himself that he has to do EVERYTHING in his power to move towards his goal of having his own kingdom, or that toy soldier on the battlefield died for nothing. It literally scratches away at his skin that he feels like he can't care for people he has to call pawns because then he wouldn't be able to send them to their deaths.
After losing everything, he twists this justification from "They're dying for my goal" into "They're dying for me". This twist however also changes the reason his previous soldiers fought for which is where Griffith went wrong. His soldiers died so he could secure a Kingdom under a ruler everyone would look up to which he sorta did. His previous soldiers no longer died for his kingdom. They died so he could go chase Guts.
Femto created a Kingdom where everyone in the world can travel safely together to through the spirit trees, y'know, after he opened the barrier between the spirit and human worlds.
Gatt's decided to leave because he overheard griffith and the princess talking at the water fountain. Griffith say's something along the lines of "A real friend would not abandon their own dream to follow mine". So I think Gatt's was just trying to take notice of what he said. Griffith however goes against what he say's, and tries to stop Gatt's from finding his own dream. That is narcissm. Your analogy would makes sense if the Homeless child was only leaving to make you proud and pursue his goals. He didn't just randomly decide to abandon his friend. Although Griffith did.
Who is gatts? I know guts
Agreed. Griffith didn't even ask Guts why he was leaving. If he did, and heard Guts say he was looking to find his own dream/purpose. Then, they could have talked it over. Instead of Griffith trying to force the situation.
@@manuelrodrigues_1904 gattsu is his actual name
@@figmenter True. It all went wrong from an action commited by griffith himself. Putting the blame on to guts because he decided to leave is not right.
Yeah, maybe if Griffith would have asked why he was leaving, and try to reason with him, he just attempts to duel the person who has leads the frontlines of his army and has killed 100 people on his own. Not a smart decision but I suppose from Griffith's perspective, it would be Gut's fault.
@@fooder6 no.
You sound exactly like how I'd expect a Griffith apologist to sound 😂😂 I'm crying bro thanks for the laughs!
The idea Griffith gave Guts everything so Guts should stay under his thumb the whole time is ridiculous
Griffith was a control freak and manipulative, Guts isn't his property just because he did some good things for him. He didn't even do that for Guts, it was just a side effect of Griffith using him
Also, "Femto didn't track Guts, Rickert or Casca down and kill them" Yea, because 1. He's stuck in the Astral world at this point 2. He's part of the God hand he doesn't think like that conventional human, he looks at them as insignificant. Him saving Casca had to do with him being fused with the moonlight child
Vid is kinda badly researched
That’s what I’m saying, the only reason Griffith felt betrayed by Guts is because he wouldn’t be able to manipulate him any further and lost his control over him and this is why he couldn’t get him out of his head after he left.
@@backwoodsonthabeat7783yeah I think the Griffith simps are just emotionally immature and have some sort of personal stake in the argument because they overly identify with Griffith. It's like a weird ego thing, I don't personally identify with guts, I see guts as representing all people who wish to be a good person and their struggle through life.
Griffith is a fucked up human being, just because he has feelings doesn't mean he isn't bad, just because Miura said something years ago does not mean griffith is not evil, he is a fucked up individual doesn't matter how you look at it
06:45 thats true, but having rapped Casca... was SO UNNECESARY.
That moment cracked so much peoples heart.
4:00 thats like adopting a homeless child, raising them, teaching them, all that stuff, then when they 18 they move out to live on their own. you helped them learn how to live in this world and now they are going off to live on their own, theyre not abanding you and forgetting about you. giffith started to get mad at guts before he even left, who knows if guts would have just avoided griffith forever or if he would still look back on him in some sense of admiration.
6:00 griffith killed an entire batallion of people who looked up to him and still believed in him, he took away everything he gave to these people for his own personal wants and needs. this act was griffiths main (or first big) act of selfishness that makes everyone think hes wrong. the comparasion with alexander the great would work only if alexander the great had murdered his own allies in brutal ways just so he got more power.
throughout this video you mention those moments where griffith had all these moments to kill guts, casca, or ricket. griffith still wants guts, he wants to have him on his side and under his control just like he has zodd. he also viewed casca as someone he could use and saw her as the weak girl that needed saving like when he first met him. he also knew ricket still admired him so he could use this admiration to benifit him.
end of the video you say griffith did what griffith thought was good, if someone with BPD was on a manic episode, they would still be somewhat responsible for their actions. they cant tell whats good or wrong but they still are held accountable for those actions but griffith just keeps running away from his consiquiences and keeps using people for his gain.
I hate how everything I love never gets finished. Berserk, hunter x hunter, college.... Theist goes on
The manga shows that Griffith is the literal manifestation of evil. He literally sacrifices all his “homies” and RAPES Casca just to hurt Guts… Nigga please be fr
On god
fr bro no kizzy
I mean his "homies" would die and do everything for him anyway as they themselves say so...
4:33 I don't think that was the only thing. But also I think in Griffith's mind he was the best swordsman known in the land, and I think he internally took pride in that. So when Guts defeated him, it caught Griffith off guard. I think it shattered his ego/pride he had in himself as being the best swordsman. It was a huge shock to him that not only he was defeated, but he was defeated by someone he probably considered a close friend of his. So he probably also viewed that as a betrayel.
real
What you were trying to describe was actually Guts himself, especially with the accidental murder of the kings nephew. If you want to refer to a "grey" morality then Guts is at its bare limits with his personal enjoyment of savage mortal combat against men and maiming and killing against fantastical creatures and apostles. That's not including the more non personal primal urges he feels when he adornes the armour. Etc.
-Griffith is purely narcissistic and calculating in the fact but I also don't think he was pure evil he was still human with complex emotions like love and hate and not a comically evil monster like an apostle. He was able to feel companionship regardless of his selfish dominating image he wanted and desired.
-But make no mistake those times he saved casca and Guts etc during the fantasia/elf arcs he only done it because a piece of him(like in Harry potter) is the moonlight boy which is the eclipse defiled pregnancy of casca and guts, he has nothing good left in him except for the moonlight boy he sacrificed the rest of his humanity at the eclipse.
But arguments don't matter because the best story ever told will never be told in full
Well said!
I was just about to say. After rebirth, moonlight boy was the only thing holding Griffith back and that it was not up to Griffith to decide whether or not to spare Guts and Casca. Therefore, the argument that Griffith is neutral post rebirth is baseless.
@@figmenter thats actually not true. Griffith couldve killed guts and casca during the eclipse and at the beginningof the story prior to being reborn he simply chooses not to
Griffith literally tricked Guts into straight up murdering a kid years before he became Femto XD The dude was a total narcissist right from the start. There's no height of evil you can make a villain commit and still have a questionable number of fans simping for them if you A)Don't make their evil random/petty and B)Make them look pretty. Edelgard from Fire Emblem is more proof of that.
That's slightly misrepresenting what happened. Julius tried to have Griffith assassinated, so Griffith tried to have Julius assassinated in retaliation. Adonis just happened to wander in, Griffith didn't plan it.
@@Fatb0ybadb0y Oh no, he planned it. He said as much to Guts afterwards.
@@Fatb0ybadb0ythat is true but griffith didnt bat an eye when he knew the kid died. He felt nothing
@@Mfscallmethedrinkthis is the 100 years war Griffith has probably seen hundreds of kids die what’s one more in his eyes
@@Fcxkyyy guts saw all his friends get rped and killed💀and guts also probably saw kids get slaughtered too.
I don't understand that stupid meme at the start. pretty sure the hawk wouldn't have volunteered if they knew they were to be brutally murdered by their leader. This argument seems kinda like a ploy to get attention lol
Everything Griffith ever did was to further his goal. He cared for nothing more than to have his own kingdom. He was tunnel vision on a mission. He did nothing wrong but care only for himself and what he wanted to accomplish. A true self centered pathological egotist with delusions of grandeur.
he only focused on his dream and attaining a kingdom.. up until he met Guts.
Valuing Guts so much that he'd risk his own life to save him from Zodd.
But wasnt it 'wrong' for someone as focused as Griffith to throw away everything after Guts left, though?
Well, He did say Guts made him forget his dream for a time. But still.. sleeping with Charlotte was clearly not a step towards getting his kingdom.
Basically, Griffith wants what he wants and will stop at nothing until he gets it. No matter what the cost.
@Powdered Toast Man yeah, he was being a jerk to them and was going to torture them until he was contented, had it not been for Mr. SkullKnight. As to why he didn't stop them from getting away, we'll never know.
Evil people can be decent kings, but that doesn't make them morally good, that just means there good at their job, you wouldnt forgive murderer for his crimes because he's good cooking
it's like straight up Stockholm syndrome to think Griffith is like good daddy
and if he didn't look the way he looked, or have the charm he has, nobody would think twice. he's always been a total narcissist. it's like people think it's gonna be some MGS inside job that Griffith totally did it all for the best reasons....like no..... and even if he did and that WAS the case.....that's dogshit story telling lmfao. And we all know this isn't bad storytelling.... Or we hope at least
and even iiiiiif he did somehow do it all for the "best reasons". he did fucking horrible shit hahahah like all the time that doesn't excuse pretty daddy
time and time again he's made the most selfish decisions. And if that's suppose to be some plot twist that he actuaaaally secretly was doing it for the right reasons with like little to no evidence besides Stockholm syndrome.... that's pretty BS..... it could be true at the end....but honestly idk that seems lame to me
the dude manipulates literally everyone all the time lmfao.
he quite literally uses everyone to get things he wants. he "spares" people and " saves" people so he can get what he wants. It's straight up narcissism.
Grifith didn't do all this because he loved them, he did it for the same reason we humans feed the chickens on the farm and take care of them... to eat them he just want to be the one and even if he must sacrifice his whole kingdom to become a god, well guess what? He would absolutely do it
Dude literally convinced everyone around him that he's good, but then stabs everyone in the back.
Griffith had the stomach to do it: right wrong or indifferent and that’s why we hate him, you see yourself in him and that’s why he’s king
“This is not supposed to be a hot take or anything”
Yes it is, that is exactly what this is. I’m literally 3 minutes in and you already just said “Griffith isn’t bad hed even let himself get raped by Lord Gennon for the Band of the Hawk” dude if you don’t understand why him being willing to do that makes him insane and leads to everything else you don’t understand what’s going on in this series
If you were given the option “live as a vegetable/die soon” or “kill everyone you love and who loves you and become and evil demon that takes over the world through violence and death”
What are you picking man
@@patflann29 griffith put himself in that position by going rouge and sleeping with the princess. Not saying I don't feel sympathy for him being tortured but, he has to take responsibility.
he wants guts to become part of the god hand, remember his conversation with the princess, griffith stated he only see's people who are his equals to be his friends
It's like a man, so down because of a breakup,
got too drunk, drove, and killed a person,
went to prison, got tortured, bullied, etc,
was given a chance to become a literal god by choosing to inflict a horrible death to his friends and family.
Chose to become said literal godly being, then brought forth chaos into the world, then presented himself as its savior
did nothing wrong? 🤔
No it’s different. There is one key reasoning. The band of the hawk exists to serve Griffith’s dream. Thousands upon thousands of soldiers were killed fighting for Griffith’s dream. Guts, Casca, and the others could’ve been killed anytime as well, and they knew that. Griffith rationalizes his choice by believing that those many thousands of soldiers that perished for him would be wasted. Think about that kid that Griffith was sad for. And it’s true in a sense. All those deaths would’ve been for nothing. So Griffith probably thought “what’s 50 more?” and made his choice. And like I said, the band of the hawk fights for Griffith. Killed in battle or killed in the eclipse, they still perished for Griffith’s dream.
@@triumphant8637 you're talking about the sacrifice at the eclipse. Yes, they serve and accept the risk of death, but their fates aren't sealed. And circumstances have change after Griffith slept with Charlotte (the metaphotical victim of drunk driving). At the point of sacrifice, these people were aimless, they were merely surviving for a year, and aren't even working for the dream anymore. They were just ordinary people who needed to band together to survive in the hopes of someday being able to work for Griffith's dream again. Before, they were fighting for the dream and their lives were dedicated to that, but at the point where the eclipse happened, most of them were at a crossroads (even Casca and Guts were), just surviving day by day. They were already in discussion on what to do with the rest of their lives. Their lives didn't belong to Griffith at this point, I believe, despite what Griffith may think. While Griffith might be able to justify to himself, condemning them to certain horrible death is, just that, an active choice to sacrifice people for his own gain.
@@figmenter I’m just explaining from Griffith’s POV. The thousands upon thousands of soldiers that perished being wasted was actually an important point in the manga as well. A lot of people miss it. It’s a more “difficult choice” than it seems, being in Griffith’s situation
@@triumphant8637 @Success and as to how close they were to Griffith. They were not total strangers, despite not being his friends or family. As you've said, Griffith got sad seeing the boy die, going so far as to sacrifice himself to get funds to prevent losing his men from lack of equipment/supplies. The Godhand doesn't accept sacrifices that have no weight. So it was an immense sacrifice in Griffith's part to choose to have his entire team brutally massacred. It's almost like sacrificing the only people he grew to know for an end that only benefits himself. To the common man, that's like sacrificing the ones we know and trust the most, our friends and family.
@@triumphant8637 ah yes. I see your point now. Yes, it was kind of sunk cost fallacy. It's like "we've come so far and so many lives have been sacrificed, quitting now would be a disservice to those who died valiantly".
I'm more upset he betrayed his friends and was spiteful to Guts.
This is a perfect and phenomenal video. I’m glad someone finally shares my thoughts and opinions❤
I still go by the idea that Giffith died the day of the eclipse, the guy who is really evil for me is Femto, even though he formed Falconia and followed Griffith's dream, he still did what he did to the people he most respected, never forgiving him for what he did to Casca and Guts xd
I just want to say that when you love someone you just want them to be safe and happy. Transactional love isn't real love, and that's the main difference between Guts and Griffith. Guts has accepted that Casca might not want the same things as him and he still has risked his life to bring her to a safer place. Griffith is bad because he thinks that giving a small child a sword, instead of actually saving her, is sufficient payment to use them as a pawn in a grudge match; by assaulting and sacrificing them. Everything he did was calculated like a farmer tallying the cost of raising cattle for slaughter. If he did nothing wrong he would have just killed them; instead he used them to torture each other because they were happy without his permission.
This feels like an April Fools video.
Very good video, I been think the same thing for years, you explained it more clearly.
My main take away is that we are judged by our own actions regardless of their influences. Our actions define our destinies and for that Griffith created his fate.
Love the arguments you made here. Griffith is bascially not different to the great world history in our history that we consider good.
Most of the things Griffith does is from a point of self interest. He doesn't care if these actions benefit or harm others. Griffith does both good and evil things, but good deeds in themselves do not justify doing evil ones. Whether Griffith is "good" or "evil" is based entirely on your perspective.
That’s actually not true lol griffith does care he simply choose to move forward carrying the guilt with him. He does take his actions into account thats why griffith prostitutes himself, self harms, withholds info from the rest of the band. He (and guts) took on the hard stuff while everyone else just reaped the benefits.
If griffith did nothing wrong,he's just simply ask guts why he want to leave and after he heard guts reason he says "okay man,but come back to us when you already equal to me". And later guts come back with his own army and fight along with griffith. But he's just too selfish and see guts and his group as a "tool" to reach his own goal
Griffith looked down on the people under him though, he looks down on the people of Falconia he saw them all as sacrifices stepping blocks and that makes him evil. He lost Guts because he looked down on him and not to him as a friend. Griffith however is not evil full on he's far gone when he becomes Femto
Anything after that is just pretty showing maybe show of how he was when he was human.
3:52 give everything to him like he was just sitting watching netflix
Griffith's character flaw is that he only genuinely cares about himself and how he is perceived to the point that he won't just come out to Guts and express his feelings because it would prevent him from marrying into a royal family.
Eventually this pushes Guts away and that's what actually leads to his downfall before the eclipse.
I think this also misses a lot of the class commentary that's present in the Golden Age arc.
Griffith's ambition can only be achieved through being manipulative and treating human life as disposable. Even given that he's highly competent does the peasantry really need a new king and his accompanying lords living in luxury while taxing their labour to fund it?
The text explicitly critiques inherited privilege and the bloody swathe left in Griffith's wake was in service of getting something for himself, instead of dismantling the whole system and creating something new.
The same Griffith also mentioned that his action might have been influenced by Guts and Casca's child since he is inhabiting the childs body hence the reason why he saved Casca from the falling rocks....
Griffith is a hypocrite. Guts had to accept everyday bad day. Griffith didn’t once. Guts is the true super human.
Griffith will sacrifice the people of Falconia too. I'm calling it now. He never cared about anyone and he is getting away with it. You can say that from his pov he isn't evil, but he isn't good either. Falconians simply lack information and it's not just about "oh no. What did he do to reach this good ending?"
No. He sacrificed his subordinates, his friends, the band of the hawk. He will do the same with the people of Falconia. He just wants to be the king. He didn't say anything about the kingdom thriving. He'd be fine with ruling an Elden Ring like realm, as long as he is in the top castle.
Even more, he would sacrifice his citizens to defeat the Godhand and even casuality itself if he can get up to that point. He always soars higher and higher, sending down deadly tidal waves behind him, drowning anyone in his past, friend or foe.
That's why nobody should trust him.
Honestly, a lot of times I felt like Griffith only cared about those who benefitted him, when guts left the hawks Griffith said "if he doesn't want to stay with me, then his life is forfeit", not to mention that he didn't hesitate to sacrifice his own friends for his dream, the same friends who helped him come so close to his dream, that right there shows me he only cared about his own goal.
Maybe I'll understand more when I continue reading the manga
“Saved Casca from being raped” do not tell this man what he does later in the story with her
Good take. I'll love to see your opinion about Griffith's reaction to Guts when he finds again the crimson behelit in the lake, when Guts approaches him, he's like, don't come to me, don't get close to me or else, and when Guts touches Griffiths the behelit activates. What do you think of all this scene?
The most telling sign that Griffith *still* loves his few remaining old friends is him not only *sparing* Ricket for slapping him, but *warmly* bidding the boy farewell and letting him go. He *is* a monster, yes, but the innocent little boy he once was is still buried in there, deep inside, crying bloody tears of remorse for what he has become.
I think that most of the fandom blindly worships Guts as most of the Berserkverse blindly worships Griffith. (The absolute irony)
The worst Griffith did was sacrificing his troops at the Eclipse and raping Casca. (There are other things, like spending the night with Charlotte, but to be fair, if Midland's king was sane, he shouldn't have reacted the way he did. And all the royalty meddling that ended up with some nobles lives). Sure, that's terrible, but it's nothing compared to what other characters did in the same universe, like Ganishka, Wyald, the Midland King, some Astral World beasts, Skull Knight...
Just because those actions affect Guts directly, the fandom loses it's mind and conveniently forget all the things mentioned in this video that Griffith did.
Don't get me wrong: I condone that Griffith sacrificed the Band of the Hawk, Guts has all the right in the world to hate him, and there's a possibility that Grifith might sacrifice his kingdom at some point. And Guts has to struggle with a destiny worse than death. It's no wonder his character resonates so well with the audience.
But it's unfair to throw all the shit to Griffith while characters like Wyald exist (we all agree that the monkey was disgusting), Rickert slaps Griffith out of an emotional outburst putting Erica's and Luca's gang lives at risk (badass and understandable, but foolish at the same time), or Guts worked as a deadly mercenary, accidentally killed Adonis, almost raped Casca/Elaine, killed children pseudo-apostles to fight Rosine for his "dream" of killing Griffith, and many edgy things that he we don't know he did prior to the Black Swordsman's arc.
There are no saints in Berserk, just living beings taking decisions. And Miura does an excellent job portraying this. That's why the manga is so good aside from it's gorgeous art.
I would love to see how the fandom would react if Guts decides to sacrifice his party to become an Apostle/Godhand. Which seems like a possible scenario hinted by Flora, the archmages at Skellig Island, and even Guts's inner beast. They would probably justify it saying that Puck and Isidro are cringe.
So you're saying that if Hitler wanted the best for his people and he killed everyone else created the utopia that's ok?
@@madmank7881 You missed the point dude...
I'm not justifying genocide nor absolute utilitarism. Read the second paragraph I wrote: the worst things that Griffith did was sacrificing the Band of the Hawk and raping Casca.
What do we have left if we omit that? An excellent and charismatic leader who displays genunine consideration about his troops/citizens, achieves incredible results and keeps deadly monsters under his control. And that's how people see Griffith because they don't know he made the sacrifice.
Sure, Griffith does everything for his own selfish reasons and what he did was terrible. But everybody (except Guts and Rickert) seem to be benefitted from that.
Comparing Hitler with Griffith makes no sense... After the Eclipse, Griffith never started any kind of ethnical cleansing. All the opposite actually: Falconia emerging was the result of stopping Ganishka, who was about to rumble the whole continent, and now Kushanese and Midlanders are living together without problems.
If anything, Ganishka was more similar to Hitler: he abused people from Midland in order to create his pseudo-apostles army. Gas chambers are no different from Ganishka's pisaca factory.
You're reading the manga wrong, dude. Berserk explores the conflict between fate and free will. It's simple, but not as simple of who's right or who's wrong.
Let’s go to the core it’s Griffith a fault for not seeing guts as a real friend
As much as the Godhand claims to be not human (emotions) and see the future what drives them is they are ironically still acting human they are just evil/petty. But in the end every person has a choice even if it’s destiny.
if they got rid of human emotions... doesn't that show how innately evil Griffith (and the godhand) is?
"If you lived in the metropolis, you'd think Griffith was a hero.."
Nah, fam. The pattern is clear. Dude is buttering metropo-ppl up, and will sacrifice them just as quick.
you're definitely entitled to your opinion.
Lol griffith is aligned with demons and the holy see he did plenty wrong your tripping
I think yall forget that Guts made himself a slave right at the beginning when he lost the battle against griffith. He literally said: do with me as you wish and didn't keep his promise
Tranquil Dionysian: Skull Knight is Skull Knight and Griffith is Griffith.
Bob Parr/Mr. Incredible: Math is math!
Griffith is a villain solely because of the eclipse. He gave up his humanity (mostly) for his own selfish dream. any "good" griffith did before or after is built on the shameless sacrifice of the comrades he chose to slaughter. This makes him immoral and wicked, the definition of evil. Wether he has a soft spot for casca or guts after the fact doesnt matter. He still cursed them both, raped casca and traumatized guts. Your little anecdotes and apologetics are so pathetic its sickening. im convinced this video is constructed purely for views.
Relax man! he's just stating his views he doesn't need to be attacked for it. But you responded better than I did anything griffith does after sacrificing his friends is just pretty words on a curse... as his kingdom is a beautiful house on a grave site. xD
I reject the idea that there isn't an objective morality. I also think that Griffith is just keeping guts alive because he doesn't want guts to get the release he would get from death.
death wouldve been a mercy fr
It isn't merely an idea but a simple fact of this world.
@[ASMR] No, that is not the truth. In actuality, morality is not subjective. Morality is objective.
This is the down sound to winning all the time, when the inevitable reality of defeat and ruin befalls upon the person; they won't know how to deal with it in a productive manner.
I agree that it’s difficult to categorize Berserk characters as simply good or evil. Guts himself joins the Band of the Hawk & unquestioningly kills people he’d otherwise never have a problem with. However, Guts, Casca & everyone else were just pawns in Griffith’s conquest for glory. The Band of the Hawk was not assimilated because Griffith is benevolent. I think when Griffith sacrifices the people who rescued him from imprisonment (& who previously got him to where he was before that), he’s proved how expendable others are to him & further validated Guts’ decision to walk away in search of his own path. The Band of the Hawk were simply performing a service for Griffith in exchange for profit. None of them owed Griffith their lives.
Also, Griffith showing restraint by not killing Guts & Casca when the Skull Knight appears, suggests he could’ve had the same restraint before forcing himself onto Casca. Which served as nothing more than an act of sheer malice.
Your wrong, Griffith lost everything because of himself and his own weakness not because of guts.... And also another way to look at it is that guts is the one who gained everything for him, did all the hard work whilst he attended royal functions and rubbed shoulders with royals.
The people of Falconia would be save if Griffin didn’t bring the apocalypse.
If Griffith is sparing or even defending Guts and Casca now, wouldn't that be taking back his sacrifice and possibly nulling his contract with the Idea of Evil?
Casca couldn't have enjoyed it, anyone with a mark is put in immense pain arround a single apostle, let alone all 5 godhand members and apostles.
The scariest villain is the one you can sympathise AND agree with.
“ Casca “ case and point
… your recent shorts have me feeling some kinda way about that title.
You didn't do enough research on Alexander the great , he was not much of a military man and was saved countless times on the battlefield lol
4:00 guts just wanted his own dream and journey plus Guts heard Griffith so called ideals which made guts want his own dream thus leaving(which he would come back)
Griffith is such a good person. I mean what good person wouldnt sacrifice all his "friends" so he can achieve his dream. All of the band of the hawk members should feel lucky to be sacrificed for such a great cause. Its not like any members had their own hopes and dreams. Guts is such a hater, if anything its all Guts fault for leaving. Poor Griffith 😢😢😢
You act as if Guts was any better. In fact, Guts is worse.
Guts sacrificed the small town in the Black swordsman arc just to kill the snake apostle when he DID NOT HAVE TO. He stated that he doesn't care about the people dying and that they deserve to die.
Griffith on the other hand, has never done anything the band disagreed to. They agreed to die for Griffith's dream. Otherwise they wouldn't risk their lives in the battlefield. The people in the town of that Snake apostle were innocent and didn't agree to die for Guts' revenge.
Not to mention that Guts is a literal child killer. I think that's much worse than revenge r@p3. He has also done ZERO good for the world while Griffith brought peace and progress to the world of Berserk with Falconia.
@@riverblack123 no where in my comment did I justify anything guts did. I never even said guts was a good person. You clearly didn't read what I wrote properly. Also I must of missed the part in the story where the band of the hawk agreed to be brutally killed by demon's cause their leader decided his dream was worth killing the people who just freed him from torture. Honestly I hope you were joking cause acting like Griffith ain't that bad is crazy considering what he has done.
@@bc6953 Griffith is horrible, don't get me wrong, but I think he is overhated. The band of the hawk were never innocent, they are hired killers to whoever pays them big. They are hypocrites. They have no problem risking their lives for Griffith's dream, yet they are mad when they have to die to make it happen?
Griffith also has done the incredible achievement of bringing peace and progress to the world of freaking Berserk.
@@riverblack123 wouldn't you be mad if someone you trusted sacrificed you. There's a difference between them agreeing to fight for him and Griffith choosing to sacrifice the band of the hawk. They chose to fight not be slaughtered. No one is to blame but Griffith, he went to the princess knowing the possible outcome but he went anyway. Yet instead of living with the consequences he instead killed the people who cared for him and just rescued him
Griffith: There is one worst that Grapists.
Guts: A child.
Griffith: no.
Yup this guys new to berserk, half of the shit he said is just straight up wrong or forgot major plot points like the moon light Child. I feel like you were making this video noticed all the holes in your arguments and just said fuck it I’ll go with that
Griffith had one of the most important people in his life walk out on him, but Griffith never once told Guts honestly how important to him he was.
He literally said out loud to them that they're not is friends but his tools because they don't have their own dreams.
@@madmank7881 no guts was the exception to that rule that is revealed when he offers guts as final sacrifice like u where only thing that almost interfered with my dream “out all the 10 and thousands only you and you alone”- Griffith Griffith was just pillow talking to charlotte
5:18 actually he lost the main subject not his "friend" , Griffith didnt see Guts as his "friend"
This is like saying just because hitler cared about Germany means he’s a good guy
Did you read the manga? Because Even an apostle wouldn't make the choice of sacrificing his own daughter over his newborn life. Griffiths pride and ambition was more important than his relationships, army, romantic relationships and life. The manga makes this ultra clear.
Your take on this is horrific, as you have to justify the slaughter of the hawks and the raep of casca, which was meant to humiliate Guts before killing him. In your words, Griffith is someone who did nothing wrong, even though he totally had the choice to reject the offer he was given and "die a martyr" for his cause.
Nice vid, i especially like that you brought up Alexander. That's pretty much what Miura was going for with Griffith. A great man of history who stands above the commoners morality. Those who think people like Alexander, Napoleon or Genghis Khan wouldn't do the same as Griffith are delusional. Yet we don't remember any of those people as complete monsters but primarily as great men who changed history. Griffith is the same as them. The hate he receives is overblown and stems from us experiencing the story through Guts' lens.
Napoleon would turn into demon and rape the woman most devoted him?
Didn’t know you had this opinion. Unsubbed soon as you made it clear this is your sincere take. I urge others to do the same.
For me Griffith got lost after losing to Guts, whom he considered his equal and maybe even friend ( if we look at how close they were, right from the beginning ) so it was like a double punch, losing to the only person you’re close with and then seeing him leave without being able to do anything about it
Does everyone forget that his followers didn't care about him short of what they could get from him succeeding? They were leeches, plain and simple. When he couldn't deliver, they all ran to someone else who they could latch onto. They didn't love Griffith for him whatsoever, it was purely transactional. IMO that was one of the points the author was trying to make in all of this.
If you've ever been successful yourself and ended up with sycophants that constantly praised you and wanted to be around you to share in your limelight only to be ditched as soon as you took a fall, you would completely understand this point. From a "Nature's Law" perspective, his followers earned exactly what they got, by choosing to be dependent on someone else they didn't even care for.
And let's remember that Griffith didn't do any of these deeds to be a good person. So you can't suddenly judge his choice against such a standard when it comes to the choice of sacrifice. He never intended to walk a "good path" to begin with, he was simply achieving his goal.
He was a convenient choice for them to NOT have to stand on their own two feet and achieve their dreams by themselves. They practically demanded it from him. Sorry to say but that makes them just as selfish as he ever was. In this case it's just one predator eating another lesser predator. Especially due to the fact that his followers were never "good people" (except maybe a few characters could be judged as such). The lack of honor in trying to kill Guts as a group against a single man, only to have Casca have to come save their butts and then ultimately, Griffith having to step in. At that point, Griffith saved all of their lives for being selfish and careless - they should have died for those actions they chose themselves.
And if anyone has ever pursued a dream, only to be distracted by a loved one, you may understand Griffith's point of "if you touch me..." at the eclipse. It comes to a point where you have built up animosity against someone who yes, you ultimately loved, but because it all fell to nothing, you feel cheated. You feel as if all those years of your life were stolen away by this person who "got in the way" and you happily say screw it, I'm done with you, all I got from being with you was a screwed up life and I'm happy to move on. Almost maliciously.
Remember that Muira writes all of these characters from a purely humanistic point of view. This is all about the REAL world of grey morality where nobody is truly a hero or a villain. Everyone is a selfish creature with perhaps some more amiable traits than others. Even the apostles are given glimpses into their humanity, at least to their ultimate choice of becoming one. Evil actions yes, but in the end, done for humanistic desires. In which case don't forget that being human IS to be good and evil, selfish and altruistic - all of it.
It's also one of the reasons some people love Farnese so much, because regardless of her past evil deeds, she decides to confront her being helpess and she COPES. She rides through it, not seeking denial to avoid the pain but simply heads straight through it. It makes her one of the most redeemable characters in the whole arc. Again, originally as a character who committed many many acts of evil, but in the end is human. And she chooses to become more human and accepting of both herself and the world around her.
As much as people pick this series apart, IMO there is a separate layer that wraps around all of the story and the characters within it. The level of nuance is so beyond most people's perception that they forget what all these depictions really are supposed to be like - real people. Real people with real faults, regardless of what slice of life they come from or how they are to be judged. Our world is sick and full of sick people and Berzerk has no qualms about mirroring that within its own universe. It's what makes it so easy to relate to because it is so on par with our own. Perhaps many can't make those connections because they are in denial of their own world they live in, but that's not the fault of the writer, let alone the characters within it.
In the end, the characters are to be judged as humans, not what the reader wants them to be. Not as fable-level ideals placed on pedestals to somehow fulfil their inner hopes and desires of what they want to see in the world. The story and characters JUST ARE. No need to skew any of it just for yourself.
I got more out of your comment than the video itself. Very well put. This is why I love reading other people's takes. You just shifted my paradigm. To a better one at that. Thanks.
This should be the top comment, but people are too busy typing with their feelings. I wanted to make a similar point to people who are conflating evil with bad. Griffith has done bad things but his negative actions were a human reaction to circumstance through the lens of his character, like wanting to strangle Guts for leaving. He had serious character flaws that he chose to throw away rather than work through them like Guts, people keep bringing up that Griffith raped Casca, well Guts sexually assaulted her because a part of him wanted control over her because he lost it to Griffith, paralleling why Griffith did that to Casca. The difference is Griffith moved on and Guts tried to control that aspect of himself, and given that he is the Moonlight Boy, it's possible that will be his downfall. Griffith and Berserk, in that sense, are less about good vs. evil and adherence to Jungian and Nietzche philosophy. In an era where antagonists are portrayed as morally grey and/or humanized, the classic villain is evil for the sake of being evil, like Wyald. Griffith, at the present time, is mainly concerned with his ambition, but even as a man, he did not want to make more people suffer than needed to get there. He isn't exclusively selfish or narcissistic like many people are saying, but he's got his own interests to preserve in a world where both men and women are regularly betrayed, raped, and killed. The only curve ball is that Griffith, in the story's semi-canon, serves a being that is a manifestation of human suffering and perpetuates it in order to exist (Idea of Evil) and it seems like he might sacrifice Falconia. I think most of the fandom suggests Griffith is a villain but he's just a passive antagonist to Guts. Hence why Tranquil suggests, as Miura said, Griffith is Griffith.
I didn't read the entire comment but you saying they didn't care about Griffith besides what they could get out of him is proven false by the story itself, the fact they were valid sacrifices meant that they all loved each other. It was a mutual love between them, not a transaction. They were understandably disheartened he was crippled because they'd never go back to their former glory but that doesn't mean they didn't care about him, after all they stayed to help rescue him while half of them deserted. There's no case to make that they were using him
@@Sernival The god hand are LITERALLY called evil demons and ARE LITERALLY serving this thing called the IDEA OF EVIL which is LITERALLY made as a reaction to humanity's need for something EVIL to exist to blame their problems on. They're demon's that rape torture and eat people for fun. The god hand thrives off the bad in humanity, the whole process to become an Apostle is for someone to "shed their last bit of humanity, leaving a hole in their heart for EVIL to pour in" direct quote from the story btw. Griffith is not a good guy because he has the Crimson Beheleit which only goes into the possession of those THAT POSSES THE QUALITIES OF EVIL. I hope you don't think Miura made Griffith rape Casca in a pool of her and his friends blood making her man watch while being pinned down because he's "not a bad guy"
Pointing to "Jungian and Nietzche philosophy" People are taking that incorrectly, Miura is most likely using that to show while Griffith is the image of what most people would call good deep down he's literally LITERALLY a demon god, basically the antichrist who's brainwashing the masses to worship him while Guts is depicted as a psychotic evil lunatic in all black but he actually is the one fighting against the evil trying to be a good guy after realizing he was becoming a monster himself after waging war against them, he's the hero atm protecting villages and such from the hoards of demon's GRIFFITH COMMANDS
Their are cases of good and bad people in Berserk, was Donovan not a bad guy? What about Wyald? What about the King? The story just wants you to know that the line can be blurred. It's not always black & white, but IT CAN be. Such as with Griffith...the mass murdering rapist that's in charge of more mass murdering rapists....Oh yea, not to mention that the people of Falconia that died in his battles? He's sending them all to hell lol, he's totally not a bad guy...
People really like to overlook the fact that Griffith was manipulated into accepting the God Hand’s deal by the God Hand themselves and still hesitated to accept.
They also overlook the fact that it was essentially ‘accept the deal, or die’. And that if forced into the same situation Griffith was, every single one of them would do the same.
Assasin arc is the first instance of griffith being an evil person
You are one of the few people who actually understands the story.