For Folks rushing the reactions, I have an opening as one of my editors is gone 😅 Our Patreon gets early uploads I block hints and spoilers, fun facts that actually spoil! The show does a great job at explaining Early Uncut Reactions www.patreon.com/Yaboyrocklee we have a 🔥🔥🔥 lit discord discord.gg/bmYzgDz Schedule changes as other shows start or finish. Save the link. www.yaboyrocklee.com/schedule/ Follow on socials Twitch www.twitch.tv/yaboyrocklee 🔥 TWITTER twitter.com/YaBoyRockLee_
if one's despair is greater than their hope, then it defeats their hope. Despair is the opposite of hope afterall. If hope cannot he defeated, no one would commit suicide.
Lucifer knows what can beat hope. However if Lucifer admits that hope can be defeated, that means that Lucifer will never have hope of leaving hell. Meaning God's word is absolute.
@Rick King 22 if one's despair is greater than their hope, then it defeats their hope. Despair is the opposite of hope afterall. If hope cannot he defeated, no one would commit suicide.
@@sepg5084 The suicide thing is based on a person's perception of hope not the reality and really not relevant to the topic at hand. Even as dark as the DC (and by extension Vertigo) comics are, hope is the underlying theme. It's why Anti-Life is such a strong play; it destroys life and creates darkness. Hope is the one concept that can't truly be killed, and the King of Dreams (and keeper of the collective subconscious and all stories) knows that best.
@@sepg5084 Except we're not just talking about beating hope, people lose hope all the time. Lucifer had to find something that KILLED hope, and I'm not sure you can really do that. People in despair find hope again even after they lose it. If you go to Pandora's myth, the only thing that remained in the box after all the bad things have been unleashed was hope.
Fun Fact: Martian Manhunter sees Dream of The Endless as a flaming Martian skull. He calls him Lord L'zoril and apparently the traditional Martian supplication to him was "May you guard us in darkness and on the pathway between waking hours, and protect us in dreams from the flame of your wrath"
The oldest game: each player takes turns, saying what they have turned into that will beat the other's current form. First player unable to think of something to turn into loses. I don''t know if it's *literally* the oldest game, but it invokes some of the oldest ideas about why we play games: imagination and competition, ritually invoked and exercised. It also makes sense that essentially metaphysical beings like Dream and the Devil would fight in this way; physical fighting doesn't mean much to beings who are much more than just their current physical manifestation.
It’s very subtle in the show but actually people see dream differently, however the way that Neil Gaiman portrays him on the comic page is always this kind of like tall, pale, gaunt figure with stars for eyes
The main reason they’re usually shown as a “default” form is, of course, it’s just easier for story purposes. As for an in-universe reason why they have their particular forms, I think it could be that it’s how The Endless see themselves and each other. Perhaps their self images could even be imposed on pretty much any mind, but they just don’t usually do that, so it’s up to the individual. That we’re seeing them this way has a couple of immediate implications. Our personal perception of them has been removed, or we’re all just special and can see them in their own way. 😄
@@0okamino My interpretation of the Endless's "default" forms is that when we're not seeing them through the eyes of individual characters, we're seeing them through the eyes of the storyteller. Neil Gaiman is telling us Dream's story, so we see Dream not as *we* would personally see him, but as *Neil* sees him.
The scene in the comics with Martian Manhunter and humans looking at him at the same time and seeing different things would have been nice to see adapted
The ONLY Answer IS Hope and can only be Hope. Sure Hope beats Anti-Life, Superman beats Darkseid. That's easy, but here is the deep cut. in DC lore, Life is constituted into the emotional spectrum. The most important of which is Free will. This is why the Guardians used the green spectrum of Willpower for their corps. Willpower is very powerful. it forms the foundation of the multiverse. when we make one decision, a universe is created where we do it and one where we dont. That is the function of Life, to sustain the multiverse. Anti-Life works by nullifying the concept of free will, and thus making things under its influence not truly alive. To overcome such a thing, you would need to boost your willpower. Blue lantern rings of Hope, boost the green lantern rings. Hope boosts your willpower, thus helping you to defeat Anti-Life.
The way John said he was defending himself felt like a kid who was so convinced they're right. Initially it seems like Rosemary is just expecting she picked up a dude with dementia, but oh when she figures it out! 😅 And nah, the bacterium wasn't just a germ; it was anthrax
Neil Gaiman drew off of Miltonian visions of Hell. John Milton wrote the poem Paradise Lost in the 1600s, and I say poem but it was 10 books long. His imagery of hell strongly shaped popular imagination. Each type of sin carried with it a bizarre and symbolic punishment. The people-trees, that's the Grove of Suicides. :/
I'm really loving yalls Sandman reactions. Your discussions are insightful and thought-provoking. I am really looking forward to the rest of your reactions for this series.
I'm really enjoying the way you two go back and forth. Your dialog is super intelligent, creative, and thoughtful. I'm really impressed with how deep your thoughts are. Director Nasty has an insightful quality about him that I love and your both so open minded. I usually fast-forward through talking, but I've been enjoying listening to you guys. You have great energy together. And tell Director Nasty that I too remember the midnight Harry Potter book sellouts at Walmart. Since one of you have never seen the movies(?), you should do a reaction to them. ✌ peace. 😁❤
It seems like any stage of the "combat" has a physical effect on the other. So when Dream invoked "hope", it affected Lucifer and invoked the latent hope of returning to heaven. He is in a unique position to know this, because Lucifer does not "hope" for heaven, but they dream of the hope of heaven.
Lucifer has hope that one day God will allow them to return to Heaven. Dream threatened to take away the dreams of hell, which would include Lucifer's ability to dream of Heaven.
My theory is that Lucifer didn't even want to defeat Hope, because like you said she felt hope when Dream mentioned it AND she doesn't care enough about some random helm that some random demon wants to have lol
in the scenes with Rosemary, I was worried he would kill her (because he did kill her in the comics, he was a lot more unhinged) but was relieved when he left her alone. This episode has a few changes from the og but for the better. in the Lucifer vs Dream battle, it was originally Choronzon vs Dream, but they cast Gwendoline for a reason lol
I think y'all are very right about John antagonizing the clerk in how he approached. My mind does go to the fact that if John walked away past Rosemary or with Rosemary, it's more likely she could have accidentally been shot. But I don't feel like he was trying to be some valiant hero there, he did put himself between the gun and Rosemary but whether he was doing that intentionally is completely up to interpretation
She in a bronco she gonna get away! 🤣 yall boys hilarious. We need a full on roshi collab, both crews. I need to see the professor debate Roshi/Sheera/Lupa and RTTV over some game of thrones/sandman/anime
2:30 - Constantine was only thinking about Robin, she wasn't taking accountability for her own actions. But then when Dream of the Endless checked her, she realized that while he was only concerned about getting his things back and fulfilling his role while not actually caring about the very ones that role was for, Robin's fate was actually her fault. That's when she took accountability for what she had done.....which was necessary to show Dream of the Endless how he could not be so detached from those he serves that he forgets why he needs his tools back in the first place. 28:20 - Rosemary has to wait for John, as she doesn't have any clue how his power works. The only things she knows is that he hates lies, he tells the unabashed truth, and he told her he wouldn't harm her if she helps get him what he wants. 28:40 - It isn't that John only wants the Ruby, even though that's all he actually feels he needs, but rather that he didn't notice Dream of the Endless was in there with him. Dream of the Endless had been blasted back to behind boxes, so from John's position he couldn't see Dream of the Endless. 32:00 - There is only one thing that can defeat hope, and that is despair...but Lucifer had already played Despair, so was out of options at the end. Despair overcomes hope, but at the same time hope overcomes despair...it all depends on which comes last.
It was hope that Lucifer had to go to war with the creator and he has never lost his hope even in hell essentially with the whole he will rise again to duke it out with the creator for the second time
For Folks rushing the reactions, I have an opening as one of my editors is gone 😅
Our Patreon gets early uploads
I block hints and spoilers, fun facts that actually spoil! The show does a great job at explaining
Early Uncut Reactions
www.patreon.com/Yaboyrocklee
we have a 🔥🔥🔥 lit discord
discord.gg/bmYzgDz
Schedule changes as other shows start or finish. Save the link.
www.yaboyrocklee.com/schedule/
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if one's despair is greater than their hope, then it defeats their hope. Despair is the opposite of hope afterall.
If hope cannot he defeated, no one would commit suicide.
Lucifer knows what can beat hope. However if Lucifer admits that hope can be defeated, that means that Lucifer will never have hope of leaving hell. Meaning God's word is absolute.
Facts
@Rick King 22 if one's despair is greater than their hope, then it defeats their hope. Despair is the opposite of hope afterall.
If hope cannot he defeated, no one would commit suicide.
@@sepg5084 The suicide thing is based on a person's perception of hope not the reality and really not relevant to the topic at hand.
Even as dark as the DC (and by extension Vertigo) comics are, hope is the underlying theme. It's why Anti-Life is such a strong play; it destroys life and creates darkness. Hope is the one concept that can't truly be killed, and the King of Dreams (and keeper of the collective subconscious and all stories) knows that best.
@@sepg5084 Anti-Life is dispair incase you are confused
@@sepg5084 Except we're not just talking about beating hope, people lose hope all the time. Lucifer had to find something that KILLED hope, and I'm not sure you can really do that. People in despair find hope again even after they lose it. If you go to Pandora's myth, the only thing that remained in the box after all the bad things have been unleashed was hope.
Those cheekbones are from comic books 😅 Dream in Comic books looks: pale, very thin, sharp cheekbones, black heavy metal hair, and black eyes.
I imagine
Fun Fact: Martian Manhunter sees Dream of The Endless as a flaming Martian skull.
He calls him Lord L'zoril and apparently the traditional Martian supplication to him was "May you guard us in darkness and on the pathway between waking hours, and protect us in dreams from the flame of your wrath"
The oldest game: each player takes turns, saying what they have turned into that will beat the other's current form. First player unable to think of something to turn into loses.
I don''t know if it's *literally* the oldest game, but it invokes some of the oldest ideas about why we play games: imagination and competition, ritually invoked and exercised. It also makes sense that essentially metaphysical beings like Dream and the Devil would fight in this way; physical fighting doesn't mean much to beings who are much more than just their current physical manifestation.
It’s very subtle in the show but actually people see dream differently, however the way that Neil Gaiman portrays him on the comic page is always this kind of like tall, pale, gaunt figure with stars for eyes
The main reason they’re usually shown as a “default” form is, of course, it’s just easier for story purposes. As for an in-universe reason why they have their particular forms, I think it could be that it’s how The Endless see themselves and each other. Perhaps their self images could even be imposed on pretty much any mind, but they just don’t usually do that, so it’s up to the individual.
That we’re seeing them this way has a couple of immediate implications. Our personal perception of them has been removed, or we’re all just special and can see them in their own way. 😄
@@0okamino My interpretation of the Endless's "default" forms is that when we're not seeing them through the eyes of individual characters, we're seeing them through the eyes of the storyteller. Neil Gaiman is telling us Dream's story, so we see Dream not as *we* would personally see him, but as *Neil* sees him.
The scene in the comics with Martian Manhunter and humans looking at him at the same time and seeing different things would have been nice to see adapted
The ONLY Answer IS Hope and can only be Hope.
Sure Hope beats Anti-Life, Superman beats Darkseid. That's easy, but here is the deep cut.
in DC lore, Life is constituted into the emotional spectrum. The most important of which is Free will. This is why the Guardians used the green spectrum of Willpower for their corps. Willpower is very powerful. it forms the foundation of the multiverse. when we make one decision, a universe is created where we do it and one where we dont. That is the function of Life, to sustain the multiverse.
Anti-Life works by nullifying the concept of free will, and thus making things under its influence not truly alive. To overcome such a thing, you would need to boost your willpower. Blue lantern rings of Hope, boost the green lantern rings. Hope boosts your willpower, thus helping you to defeat Anti-Life.
Yall really understand Morpheus so far the whole story is about how he affects others tbh and him learning how to be better
Yup lol
The way John said he was defending himself felt like a kid who was so convinced they're right. Initially it seems like Rosemary is just expecting she picked up a dude with dementia, but oh when she figures it out! 😅
And nah, the bacterium wasn't just a germ; it was anthrax
Neil Gaiman drew off of Miltonian visions of Hell. John Milton wrote the poem Paradise Lost in the 1600s, and I say poem but it was 10 books long. His imagery of hell strongly shaped popular imagination.
Each type of sin carried with it a bizarre and symbolic punishment. The people-trees, that's the Grove of Suicides. :/
I'm really loving yalls Sandman reactions. Your discussions are insightful and thought-provoking. I am really looking forward to the rest of your reactions for this series.
Thanks a lot
I'm really enjoying the way you two go back and forth. Your dialog is super intelligent, creative, and thoughtful. I'm really impressed with how deep your thoughts are. Director Nasty has an insightful quality about him that I love and your both so open minded.
I usually fast-forward through talking, but I've been enjoying listening to you guys. You have great energy together. And tell Director Nasty that I too remember the midnight Harry Potter book sellouts at Walmart. Since one of you have never seen the movies(?), you should do a reaction to them. ✌ peace. 😁❤
I’ve seen the movies just not the books. Director watched and read
@@YaBoyRockLee Fair enough. 🙂
I love how stressed you two were for Rosemary!! So was I!!
Hahaha that "Pout!" lmao. It's iconic already🤣
It seems like any stage of the "combat" has a physical effect on the other. So when Dream invoked "hope", it affected Lucifer and invoked the latent hope of returning to heaven.
He is in a unique position to know this, because Lucifer does not "hope" for heaven, but they dream of the hope of heaven.
Lucifer has hope that one day God will allow them to return to Heaven. Dream threatened to take away the dreams of hell, which would include Lucifer's ability to dream of Heaven.
My theory is that Lucifer didn't even want to defeat Hope, because like you said she felt hope when Dream mentioned it AND she doesn't care enough about some random helm that some random demon wants to have lol
in the scenes with Rosemary, I was worried he would kill her (because he did kill her in the comics, he was a lot more unhinged) but was relieved when he left her alone. This episode has a few changes from the og but for the better. in the Lucifer vs Dream battle, it was originally Choronzon vs Dream, but they cast Gwendoline for a reason lol
I think y'all are very right about John antagonizing the clerk in how he approached. My mind does go to the fact that if John walked away past Rosemary or with Rosemary, it's more likely she could have accidentally been shot. But I don't feel like he was trying to be some valiant hero there, he did put himself between the gun and Rosemary but whether he was doing that intentionally is completely up to interpretation
She in a bronco she gonna get away! 🤣 yall boys hilarious. We need a full on roshi collab, both crews. I need to see the professor debate Roshi/Sheera/Lupa and RTTV over some game of thrones/sandman/anime
2:30 - Constantine was only thinking about Robin, she wasn't taking accountability for her own actions. But then when Dream of the Endless checked her, she realized that while he was only concerned about getting his things back and fulfilling his role while not actually caring about the very ones that role was for, Robin's fate was actually her fault. That's when she took accountability for what she had done.....which was necessary to show Dream of the Endless how he could not be so detached from those he serves that he forgets why he needs his tools back in the first place.
28:20 - Rosemary has to wait for John, as she doesn't have any clue how his power works. The only things she knows is that he hates lies, he tells the unabashed truth, and he told her he wouldn't harm her if she helps get him what he wants.
28:40 - It isn't that John only wants the Ruby, even though that's all he actually feels he needs, but rather that he didn't notice Dream of the Endless was in there with him. Dream of the Endless had been blasted back to behind boxes, so from John's position he couldn't see Dream of the Endless.
32:00 - There is only one thing that can defeat hope, and that is despair...but Lucifer had already played Despair, so was out of options at the end. Despair overcomes hope, but at the same time hope overcomes despair...it all depends on which comes last.
Mazikeen is a real one. I'm glad she got to make an appearance.
Interestingly enough I didn't notice this till now but she said the worst thing you can do is lie and next thing he does is tell the truth in full
“Spider-Strippers” (although I'm thinking about like strippers in Spiderman, and related characters like Black Cat or that female Venom in cosplay)
25:51 Can't Despair beat Hope
Maybe, but Despair is Dream's sister, so you know, awkward.
never completely. nothing kills hope.
Did y'all skip Episode 2 on purpose or was that an uploading issue or was that linked up with episode 1?
Death beats hope?
The oldest game. Creation.
It was hope that Lucifer had to go to war with the creator and he has never lost his hope even in hell essentially with the whole he will rise again to duke it out with the creator for the second time
Lucifer’s Hubris