Composer Chat: Can You Make a Living as a Composer?
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- Опубліковано 3 лип 2023
- It's a question many musicians want to know. Can they make a living writing music? Whether that's scoring films, writing music for video games, composing for TV the question is much the same. Guy Michelmore has been doing just that for over thirty years so here is his take on this question. IN the vidoe Guy analyses the state of the market, where the opportunities are and where they are not.
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Thank you for this Guy. As someone who is working towards doing this, this is very encouraging
You're welcome
hahaha
"Can you imagine an industry, where 90% of the time you lose money." ... Yes, the Music industry. Though I'd say it's more like 95% of the time.
yeap, the big whales cover the labels loss on the hordes of one hit wonders
Preach 😂
Yes, please keep content like this coming! I enjoy almost anything you put out there, but please do more of this!
Will do
'Only 1% of you lot is going to make it' is definitely not the most encouraging message, but brutally honest and true.
A lot more of the rest could make it if they knew where they were going wrong - they just have no idea why they are so far off the mark. Learning to hit the brief and develop a voice are things that can be acquired
I like those odds...
Not a composer myself, but the advice you just gave fits so well with so many different professional endeavors. 1) Know how to do the job. 2) Know how to follow instructions. 3) Bring something more to the job that is desirable than everyone else.
I’m a mechanical engineer. I found this very interesting and genuine. In a parallel universe, I chose music as a career instead of a hobby. I’ll always wonder what if. Good luck to those of you who follow your dreams instead of the safe choice. For me, I’ve always said, “I’m a good enough musician to know I’m not a good enough musician.”
I’ve also said half-jokingly, “I’d be a professional musician if there were such a thing.” (Yes that has two meanings, and Guy speaks to both in this video.)
Thanks Guy you’re a joy and inspiration to watch!
This comment I can relate to. I’m a machinist who is super passionate about what I do but I have an equal passion for the world of composing music for picture but haven’t made a career. Everything he says easily applies to my career as a machinist. What brings me to this channel is my ever growing desire to possibly make that switch to be a composer. It’s hard to switch from one passion to another but the fundamental strides are the exact same. Be consistent every single day learning and making your craft.
Hey man, tons of professionals don't go to school for music. Most people recommend getting a stable job and pursuing music on the side. Getting a tutor is probably more useful and cheap than going to a university
You can often email professors in composition or reach out to other professionals about tutoring, as they may be able to tutor you or refer you
You made a smart decision doing mechanical engineering. But you can still learn music and become a professional
Exactly the same here, although I always wanted to be a mechanical engineer and I feel it's my deep calling, music is something that has always walked with me, but I always assumed I don't have the talent and never even tried. Now at the age of 40 I have started learning composition as hobby. I am at the point where I neither need to make money of it, nor do I care if I suck at it. It's just for the joy of it.
Do what you love to do and work on improving your skills (musical, technical, communication) and most importantly cooperate, listen and be a hard and fast worker and never give up!
These composer chats are really great! Please keep doing this!
Very insightful! As an aspiring game composer I would ask that you cover more on topics like this. I'd also like it if you would make a video that more clearly defines what level the industry expects composers to be at. Basically I'm looking for a roadmap of skills I need to have an adequate handle of. I should probably just email the school like you said. lol
Interesting analysis indeed.
I think that the statistics you showed address the main problem: everyone today has the tools (it has never been cheaper in the history to make music..), but very few have the knowledge and the craft.
Besides I think also many focus too much on the technical side (quality of production, mix etc): that is obviously important, but more important than that it’s the music itself. I mean people should be humble enough to STUDY the music, especially the composers of the past; that’s the only way to achieve good writing and then concentrate on finding your personal voice.
You must never stop trying to write better music and studying is a key part of that. Also listening widely and creatively not just to soundtracks from the 1990's
I think one important question you have to ask yourself is if you should make money as a composer in the first place. Any art form is really fun as long as you are doing it for your own pleasure. But as soon as the hobby is turned into a job this joy may be over. At this point you have to please the expectation of your client instead of your own and you have to be creative even if you are not feeling it at this moment. It's also a hard job and there will be most likely no time and creativity left for personal side projects. If you start this career then you'll have to go all in. On the other hand it's a very creative and rewarding job. Live your dream but be prepared to have a plan B.
I'm personally glad that I didn't go that route even when I had the opportunity back in the day. Decades later I have a different day job that I love and I still love doing music as a hobby (apart of some favor work from time to time). In hindsight I'm pretty sure that a career in the music industry would have ruined music for me but I have some friends who still love it after all these years.
You never fail to cheer up and motivate a dull day (and always impress to not have a single edit point in your videos!). Really encouraging and loving your TS masters programme so far! 😊
I’m a lifelong composer and multi instrumentalist. Thanks for encouragement. I’ve just started my channel😊
Absolutely love this! Thank you so much for you continual sobering optimism, Guy!
These short, sharp, professionally-targeted chats are a welcome complement to your regular content. I hope you continue to offer them.
Agreed, it helps to keep our feet on the ground and potentially going in the right direction. Thanks, Guy great, as always.😊
This is exactly what I needed. Someone told me I should sell my music for a game. I feel I have a unique sound. Moody music for games is essential!
One thing along these lines that I think would be very entertaining would be for you to accept 2-3 pieces with a brief, and then critique (and fix?) them in a video. I'd watch and apply to that!
This is a GREAT video Guy, appreciate the candid truths you're dropping on this one 🙌
Always great to see folks being up front and honest about what it takes to make a go in the industry
Nice work, Guy. There are so many folk on UA-cam etc, setting beginner's expectations high for what success looks like, whereas the reality is hard. Thanks for explaining this.
There's a parallel with writing (fiction) where widespread computer availability lowered the skill threshold for writing. It enabled more folk to enjoy creative writing, with many of them having dreams of becoming a successful author and generating a steady comfortable income. In truth [I think] about 10% of writers finish a substantial work, 10% of those approach an agent, a small fraction of those reach publication, and a small fraction of those enjoy success with their book.
I'm a hobbyist in sound design/composition, and in writing, but I don't have a realistic hope of going all-in to bid for work in such a competitive environment. I really enjoy it, and don't want to put anyone off with what I've said here; I've really restated the problem you set out in this video, and I'm all for equipping folk with realistic expectations and the tools to pursue their dreams.
This is great! I'm currently in college for composition and I'm hoping to do video game composition as a passion. I'm very happy to hear that it's growing so much!
I also really appreciate how you line up what really makes a composer qualified when it comes to finding a job. I'm still new to this all, but one of the biggest problems I've had is trying to find out what exactly I need to work on/aim to do. This helped a lot!
This is a VERY important video, very well made with honesty and clarity. Thank you
Thank you for sharing this one!! I am just starting my degree in music composition for film, tv, and games with Berklee and this is incredibly encouraging. Love your channel and the work you do! Thanks and be well 🙌🏻
Fabulous, Guy! I'm pleased that you highlighted the need for one's own 'Voice' in order to stand out. Of your listed criteria, I believe it's the hardest thing to find because it's the one thing that can't be learned. It has to be uncovered as part of one's own journey. I feel as though I have FINALLY found mine, or simply the confidence just to be myself, so perhaps that's why this resonated. I have found that people are responding to my work in a way they didn't before, and are asking for more, so I think it's the 'secret sauce' we're all after! Thanks for a superb channel; I love it!
You're completely right in this. But it's still not easy for some of us who already are working for major tv series, documentaries and also feature films. The difficoult part for us is to build a constant flow of new works to make a stable living.
The ones who already hired us, keep doing it. To get new ones is still hard, because the established directors or productions already have their trusted composers since years, and also because it is often needed to personally know and meet people involved in new productions to get known, but it's quite hard to do it.
This is another aspect to keep in consideration, for the ones of us already working at high levels, but not yet with a constant and consistent flow of works to make a proper and stable living.
As a professional musician of 25 years now focusing all my energy on composition, this short video has been an encouraging encounter and would like to say thank you for your sage advice. But mostly for it’s kind and open manner i thank you Xander
Just finished my studies in composition, so this is perfect! Would love to see more of this 😊
Excellent guidance. Thank you Guy.
Thanks for this video, Guy. Would definetly appreciate more content like this!
Solid, accurate foundational advice Guy.
Many thanks for putting this out.
This is exactly what I needed when I hopped on today. Thank you.
Thank you! I'd love to hear your take on more about this.
As someone who is just starting on the journey towards being a composer it is definitely very helpful (and generous) that you give us some industry insights.
Thank you!!!
I’m creating music and sounds for a game. The developer is very aware of my shortcomings as a composer but won’t consider anyone else. It helps enormously that the developer is me.
Thanks Guy. As always super insightful, helpful, hopeful and pragmatic. It’s why you stand out from the rest. You’re just great.
This was really useful - great to hear these insights from the 'hiring' side. More like this please! Thanks Guy!
Thank you very much for this honest and brutal reality check!
Thank you Guy! Composer with aspirations so doing my homework research and this video very clear and straightforward.
This was exactly what I needed to watch! Keeping me focused and hungry 🙏
I thought this was an excellent and concise breakdown of the industry, made all the more useful because of the fact it was presented by someone who is clearly in the know. I haven’t done any of your courses, but I’d love to see more content like this roll out. Thank you!
Nice! Thanks for this great video!
Would love to see a breakdown of what to charge to score a video game, show, movie, etc.! Appreciate you Guy!
Thanks, Guy. This was a great video. I, for one, would love more of these types of videos 😊.
Es una maravilla escuchar que alguien con tanta experiencia comparta esta información tan valiosa. Es una delicia ver cada uno de los videos. ¡¡¡Muchas gracias por tu generosidad!!! Vamos por más...
Excellent, topic covered brilliantly. Please, more!
Good to know personality/orginiality is still right up there when people are sifting through these entries. The world needs new and unique art.
I went to bed last night feeling hopeless and woke up to this and regained some spark. You could not have timed this any better.
Glad to help
Thanks so much for these inspiring and encouraging video's!
Great video Guy! I took your course about music for media back in 2009. It was all sent by mail with DVD's. This is before online courses and everything that Thinkspace is today. All the best from Greece!
This was an ABSOLUTELY wonderful video!!
This is SO useful. Thank you 🙏🏻. Please make more videos like this.
Guy, I found this video very insightful and would definitely be very happy to see more like it in the future!
Thank you Guy. Really helpful video. Would be great to hear an example of what “professional” production sounds like compared with amateur production. Not everyone will recognise this and will send what they think is excellent!
Really value your videos. Thanks so much.
I love making music as most of the people who watch Guy's videos undoubtedly do. It would be a bonus to actually earn something from what we do. Keep making more videos like this one, along with your 'how to' musical instruction videos. Thank you.
These are really interesting videos. Please do more. It's really interesting knowing how people approach things so one person can learn more about the industry. Thanks guy.
This is SO relevant and useful
Thanks very much Guy! That was indeed very insightful and helpful!
Absolutely love this. It’s great to get this kind of insight into the industry. Can we start a series where a composer can send you a track and you make a video about it? The pros and cons, and where improvements could be made.
that would be amazing - maybe even a composing competition like Ryan Leach does!
Don’t think these guys have the bandwidth to handle this size of project, ha-pay to be wrong!
That would be really really interesting 👍
I love how your personality comes through on your delivery - I could listen to you all day, and I love the humour - A very dry subject sometimes!
I've been studying composition for the past couple months, I hope to get good enough to stand out someday.
thank you Guy for these explanations, which seem simple but so important 🙏
Yes Yea Yes! As someone who is exploring this as a side gig this was very insightful. Thanks Guy.
I needed this! Great video! Thank You! I hope to one day be doing this.
I'm following your channel since a couple of years now, and I find this type of reflections very interesting. Thank you, and please keep sharing your opinions!
Thanks for this video Guy. I would definitely be interested in hearing you talk in more detail about composing for video games and tv.
SOOO GOOD to hear advice on this subject that is constructive and uses actual examples - thank you so much!
youre welcome
Thank you Guy. The answer is yes! This kind of videos are super useful.
Yes! More like this please! Thank you for your honesty & candor. This information is VERY much appreciated.
will do
Thank you Guy, sometimes when you hear from experts on this topic, in any field, they can come across as quite cynical and jaded and put you off. This video manages to softly deliver the blow of the real world difficulty involved without completely sapping the drive to still aspire to it.
I have no place for cynacism and yes I completely agree. Be realistic about the difficulties but cynacism is just career death
I love this, and would love to see more of this content
Thank you very much for sharing this information! Extremely helpful and very much appreciated 😊
First view! Will watch now, seems like a great topic. Thanks Guy!
This is a great video. I really wish this kind of info was out there when I completed my composition degree 15 years ago. I’m now a web designer after having given up on the idea. This has made me feel differently now. Thank you
So true. That was perfect Guy. Thanks.
Thank you Guy, it's fantastic to hear about the industry from someone who is heavily involved in it :)
Just amazing Guy. Yes, I would love it if you did more of these videos.
I have been a musician and composer for 30+ years or so but I also work in the corporate world. I say this to people all the time in the corporate space, you will never be the smartest or most well-educated person in the room..... but let's assume you are, if you don't follow instructions or you are hard to work with you are STILL not going to get the gig (whatever "gig" it is you are shooting for).
People work with people so think about being a better person who is easier to work with before being the best at any given skill. Knowing everything isn't as important as being a professional who knows enough to do their job competently.
Thanks again Guy
Thank you for this fantastic video and thoughts!
Thanks for this video Guy, I had just come across by chance and it was very insightful and helpful to me. I do hope there is more content like this on your channel, as thats were I'm heading right now, and instant subscribe from me.
Brilliant video thank you and more please Guy
Interesting point.
I totally agree with the distinctive voice feature.
Being a musician for decades, distinctive voice it’s just what I’m trying to put in my new adventure of becoming a composer for media.
A great discussion, thank you!
Interesting stats I had no idea. Absolutely I would love to see more of this topic covered tnx!
I, on the other hand, fall in the category where I never believe my work is never good enough, even though I do get some clients for it!😅
Superb. Thanks Guy.
Very much appreciated and looking forward to more such information. (Also will be interesting to see how the Arturia keys that serve as elbow rests are going to hold up :).
Excellent insights! Thanks!
21 thousand people have watched this in its first three days.. that should tell people how huge the pool of composers is.
Really nice video!! Very genuine, thank you!
Great video, thank you Guy!
Thank you for making this video, very insightful and helpful! I subscribed to you because of this video
Thank you Guy, it's very encouraging. I been watching more and more of your videos.
I did a BA in Music back in 2005. I really enjoyed the film composition course that i did for it and I had planned to do a Master in composition focusing on film / tv but sadly didn't get accepted. Was a hard time and I moved into the world of IT to pay the bills and fell out of love with Music.
16 years later my IT job depresses me and I've wondered if I could get back into composition again but is it too late and could I make the switch?
I'm taking small steps with watching your orchestral videos.
Look forward to more video chat's like these.
Great video, Guy. It's really interesting to get your perspective on the industry. Personally, I write music because it's fun and because I find it really rewording to create something good that people like. Not in a million years would I consider myself qualified to write music for film & TV. Much respect to those who do.
I've been in a situation where I was doing interviews and choosing people among many CV's. Although that was in a different kind of industry, situation was quite same, it's amazing how many people apply for a job without actually taking 5 minutes to carefully read what you expect from them.
Well, now I'm trying to change my career and go into composing. That experience gives me some amount of comfort 🙂
Btw, thanks for the video, yes, I believe these kind of videos are useful, keep them coming!
If you're serious about this- talk to us about the MA. Its what it was designed to do -not in everyone;'s reach in terms of time and money but it does what it says on the tin
Wonderful advice! Very informative. Thanks Guy.
As a professional composer/musician, this is honest and helpful advice. Thanks for sharing!
Hi Guy!
At some point of my life I worked for a job agency, and it's countless the number of people who didn't pass the recruitment process because of not following the instructions, so I know exactly what you mean!
Also, as a piano player, the work you do seems really fascinating to me! I hope I can learn and get to the point of doing it professionally.
Thanks for sharing this with us!
Jolly useful Guy. As always, thanks for sharing your insights and tips. Hoping that having moved to the Chichester seaside, that new musical inspirations will come rushing through the door 🎶🎉💨
Composing has been my full time gig for 4 years now. Not only just making a living, but doing quite well. Anything is obtainable, but I really think a certain level of obsession is required. Not only to get better at your craft, but also the amount of output necessary to make it in this field requires quite an effort (I've delivered over 600 songs/cues in a 4 year span) it's not easy and it isn't supposed to be, but to anyone reading this who is serious about it...I BELIEVE IN YOU
Congratulations Frankie, that’s a lot of confidence, motivation and talent! I’d like to hear more about your crusade!
@@BraddersMusic I moved to LA in December 2018. The year before I moved here I was working 80 hrs a week between main job and side jobs, saving all the money I could. I'd eat disgusting lunches to save money like 2 McChickens at McDonalds (it cost $2.19 after tax) while I was at work I'd either listen to audio books or compositions to make me better in some way. Was waking up at 4am every single day and would write a song idea before I left my house for work at 6:30am. Sold everything I owned on ebay that wasn't a musical instrument, loaded my car up and drove to LA with $15,000. I got lucky, met the right people by saying yes to every opportunity/offer to hangout and got a gig writing for one of the biggest shows of National Geographic TV that has won multiple Emmy's and been nominated almost 20 times.
Let me know if you want to know anything else, as that is kind of my career in a nutshell, but anything I can offer that maybe can help someone else on their journey I am all for!!! Cheers!
This was incredibly helpful! I've always been worried about not being able to survive off composition alone and have even been thinking of switching out of it, but this is helping me change my mind. I would definitely love to see more of this
Its hard dont get me wrong but completely doable
Really really helpful, looking forward to more content like this❤