Is MIX BUS Processing MASTERING?
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- Опубліковано 12 бер 2019
- Is MIX BUS Processing Mastering?
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Boss. U tend to mention everything without missing any word. Once I see ur tutorial am always confident that I will grab everything
My workflow watching your video. 1) make a cup of tea 2) find a good spot on the couch 3) go back to the kitchen (forgot the piece of chocolate 4) go back to the couch 5) THUMBS UP 6) watch the video and enjoy 7) start cubase to try out your advices
😂 Never forget chocolate! LOL!
chocolate is an important part of my workflow too... lol!
A glass of port is part of mine :-)
Your mastering is very wonderful, thank you chris👍💯
Keep'em coming Chris! This was great pov.
Thanks :-)
I love your videos Chris. Thanks for all the great info
My pleasure!
Knocked it out of the park again man!!!
So awesome!
Thanks Jeremy! :)
Amazing tips!
Thanks for helping clear this up Chris. I was wondering should I tell my engineer if I decide to use master bus processing as he "suggested" not to initially
Thank you for the thoughtful explanation. I have the same feeling about top-down mixing. It never works right for me.
You're welcome, Rama!
Thank you so much for this video. As a upcoming mix engineer, I am a big fan of your videos and the information that you offer!
Do you have any videos talking about Analog summing and what it is? I'm new to the analog side of things
You're welcome, happy you like the vids... For analog gear, I did a video a couple of years ago about routing analog gear in Cubase, ua-cam.com/video/ZCdOp4JpY18/v-deo.html
Mixing is always bottom up. No one does it top down in practicality. It's only after having achieved a decent balance from the individual tracks after insertions and aux effects sends that engineers focus on the total output, which is the Mixbus; but or and after that, if necessary, they go back to individual track settings to tweak a bit here and there in order to make it as fine, smooth and glued up as possible with some workable headroom for later mastering. I for one, have never come across anyone who does Mixbus work first and then go back to individual track settings for *drastic* changes in balance, energy and expression.
Anyways, this was a good tutorial and your procedure is quite practical and useful for learning engineers, Chris.
Glad you like the video :-) Actually, Mixing is not always bottom up, that's a personal choice, there's no rules. I, myself start working on the mix buss after my rough mix (balanced, no fx) is done. Then, I work at the bottom of the chain. Instrument Busses will usually come after, my case. I saw mixing engineers like Jacquire King, Andrew Scheps, Craig Alvin, Brian Moncarz to name a few, working on the mix buss to start a mix. Others will ignore the mix buss completely when mixing. So, there's no rules, whatever works for you :-)
Thanks for the tips Chris! As usual, you're literally sharing your professional experience with everyone... for free! Thanks for that ;-)
You're welcome, Claudius!
Swedish song, nice! Ty for the vid, interesting topic!
Glad you liked it!
Merci beaucoup pour toutes ces vidéos !!!! How do you configure the meters on cubase (your color dbfs setting 4 exemple) ? or settings for the loudness vu?
Thanks a lot !
Bienvenu mon ami! Preferences... Metering.. Appearance is where you can customize the meter colors. For my VU Meter, I set to -10 usually when I do mastering. I will talk about loudness on a future video
Great video again Chris.
I've got a question:
How did you make and install the plugin-picture of your external compressor?
That plugin picture is actually a plugin provided by Tegeler to be able to recall your settings from the hardware, like a visual notepad. ua-cam.com/video/6jDo58QQqfQ/v-deo.html
Thanks, I watched that video, great stuff by Tegeler. And also thanks a lot for the Static Mix video, I tried that for my current mix-project and it works great to do the mixing without any plugins, a real improvement of workflowr.
Would love to see your mixing course.
Coming soon! (LAte September)
@@mixdownonline this is literally the best news in 2020.
Another great videotut!
It would be really interesting to tell us why you don't like the top-down mixing technique because there are many engineers who see it as the best way to achieve a faster and more efficient mix.
Thanks a lot as always and keep on touch; greets.
For me, top-down mixing doesn't bring me to where I want to go with a mix, it might be faster but not necessarily better (for me). Take drums, for example, the kick, the snare, and overheads rarely need the same processing, way more effective if mixing them at an individual level. Same for guitars, keys, vocal etc...That technique was mostly based on getting a fast workflow. Which can serve its purpose in a situation where you need a fast turnaround ...
But, if you look at the big mixers like the CLA and Andrew Scheps of this world (to name a few), most of them don't use this technique.
@@mixdownonline Great. Really right your vision. Thanks! :-)
@@mixdownonline I've been working with the top down system a long time ago, and although at the beginning I was convinced of its excellence there were always things that never quite like me, which are practically your same arguments :-)
I'm going to start to analyze, depending on each project (especially when there are few arrangements and only the lead vocals and electric guitar as main instruments in the mix), start with the MixBus treatment after the Rough Mix and from there start to work with the individual tracks without processing the Buses if I don't see it strictly necessary. I'll tell you my impressions about it :-)
What is that Crème plugin ?
@@sebastienboulet2009 www.tegeler-audio-manufaktur.de/creme_bus_kompressor_mastering_equalizer
4:20 how do you insert the hardware in the stereo bus so you can listen live while mixing? How do you export the master (do export the signal beforehand and then record the creme live ti avoid dropouts?
My mixbus:
fabfilter q 3
Isotope imager (sometimes)
Waves Ssl bus compressor tracks stealth limiter
Izotope tonal balance
- the order may vary. I may not use some or any if i plan to send to mastering.
I might start using SPL iron but i am a bit afraid of adding too much resource drainage for an effect that is ultimately very subtle.
Not sure I understand what you mean but everything is done Live, I have a designated output from Cubase to a Tascam 4 track recorder that I use to record Cubase and my Mic.
You showed the Tegeler Creme as part of your mastering bus - it's hardware. How do you insert it there? We all know how to insert a plugin, but hardware that's different man, only for the few of us who can afford external boxes. For compressors I usually use a patch bay before I go into my interface, nothing that can "show up" in Cubase though like your creme does - I would need more dedicated in / outputs for using this?
Great vid - thank you. One thing - just to get things straight: your mix-bus processing is mixing - not self-mastering? You then send your mix-bus-processed mixdown to a mastering engineer? If that's all correct - don't mastering engineers prefer a no-mix-bus-processed mixdown? The ones I dealt with (admittedly - just two) prefer that, so I've avoided mix-bus processing. In short - a bit confused...
Thanks so much for this video! If you put a compressor on the mix bus, should you mix with the compressor turned on? I read somewhere that if you add a compressor on the mix bus after you’ve mixed it, it can throw levels off from how you had them set. Any thoughts? Thanks a lot!!
Yes it can throw some balance off a bit if you're aggressive with the compressor. If you stick to a 1db of gain reduction, you should be fine... I tend to mix with my buss compressor on but I look at the compressor during the mix to make sure I don't go over 2db of gain reduction. That's my sweet spot
Hi Chris,
Question about Tegeler Cream. Do you prefer to go with eq to compressor, or compressor to eq?
Thanks.
I usually go Compressor to EQ for this
Are all your tracks routed to mix busses, then all them to the stereo out, and stereo out to the master out? Great vid as always. Thanks Chris 😎🎸🎸 if you ever need a rock lead guitar recorded to one of your tracks, pm me 😎👍🏻
Yes, that's correct.... Thanks for the offer, I'll keep that in mind :-)
Interesting video! A bit surprised to hear a Swedish song played though! :)
Yeah, me too Lol! So I guess your Swedish? Temet Nosce is a band from Norway but I think the singer is Swedish. It's the second single I mix for these guys.
You can listen to the first sing here exponentiel.net/comment-ne-pas-se-faire-voler-notre-joie/
This one is in English though.
What ? How did you get the Creme picture as a plug-in in Cubase ? I have the Creme and like to know how to get this cool image... Thanks for the video Chris
Check this out ua-cam.com/video/6jDo58QQqfQ/v-deo.html
@@mixdownonline merciiiiiii
As a mixer u must treat it that way. Its a pre master stage as you dive deeper into the mix. Always work with -2db or -3db because the mastering engineer still has to cut.so treat it as a pre master.✋
Thanks for your comment!
Hello Chris, if the overall loudness of your song its not at the level you want maybe because the processing in the individual tracks or a vocal track its not loud enough to bring the whole mix at a higher loudness level, what do you do? I'm working on a song that so far the loudness it's not at the desire level and I'm using a limiter to compensate for the lack of loudness but in the video you said you don't like this practice but I would like to know why? and what it will be a work around. Thank you.
You should know why
Hi Chris, I'm a new subscriber, and it's a great channel, especially since I'm a cubase user. The question below about mix buss routing flow has opened up a whole area of confusion; can you help? When mixing I will sub various groups; gtrs, drums (maybe even snares/toms too - it depends on the song) vocals etc. I also sometimes use parallel compression, again it depends on the needs. After these sub groupings, all my channels; the groups, any individual channels, fx returns; everything then goes to the stereo out. It's here, at the STEREO OUT where I might add mixbus compression, or anything else that I feel will work, but I noticed right away, that your MIXBUS is a separate group, all you have on your stereo out is meters, analyser and a master reference. What is the benefit of creating a separate mixbus (with whatever processors you may or may not use) instead of putting all the plugins on the stereo out? Thanks
Thanks for subscribing mt friend! To answer your question, having them separated is just more convenient for me... It's all about workflow, for example, I use a Reference Track directly in my project and I don't want to have to bypass the master out plugins every time I need to listen to that track. Stuff like that. SO for me having the Master Out being dedicated to only metering and reference plugins make more sense to me.
@@mixdownonline Hey Chris, really appreciate the reply. That's really helped clear things up and I totally get where you're coming from, but I wasn't sure if I was missing something. I will clearly be watching more vids and getting those likes in :-)
👑
Isn't having an active compressor on the mix bus kinda the same thing as top-down mixing? Same concept anyways? Maybe I misunderstand how you're using it . Thanks for the great videos.
Top-down mixing is mainly when you start by mixing the mix bus, then the instrument Groups, then the individual tracks. In my case, I add a compressor on my mix bus to mix into it, but I usually work on my individual tracks right after, then the groups, sometimes both at the same time. I don,t know if there's a name for that but it doesn't matter much ;-)
Hi Chris...You root all your tracks of the mix to that Mixbus and that mixbus is routed to the Main stereo out? Thank you.
Yes, but before they hit the Mixbus, they go to an instrument Mixbus ( Mix Drums - Mix Bass - Mix Guitars etc...)
@@mixdownonline Thank you..;)
It's pretty self-explanatory. Anything used on the mixbus, is part of the mixing process. 🤙
unless you are mastering
Funny
Hello
chris
I didn't understand why we use the mixbus, you explain what you use as plugins in the mix bus but what is the purpose of doing that?
That's a personal choice, I like to work a bit on my Mix Buss when I start working on a mix to start shaping the tone right away. This is way I will start to glue things together and will have just a bit less to do on the individual tracks
Chris, would your mix sound that different if you were using only the native Cubase plug-ins?
I would say very likely yes. In terms of the actual sound a skilled engineer can largely get a good sound out of anything or use whatever tools there are available to produce something that sounds more or less "like them." But some tools are better than others - Part of that is the sound and part of that, maybe more importantly, is the workflow.
As with anything you often only have so much energy to give a project while fresh and using tools that optimises your workflow means you can get more done in a more efficient manner before your ears start to give out or your motivation does etc. The result is a better end product.
If you're willing to put in the same amount of effort the difference wouldn't likely be as much in the sound as it would be in the process\pain of getting there.
The Cubase EQ is fine for example but I now use Fab Filter Pro-Q on pretty much every single track, even when using outboard because it's quick, it's convenient and it's a tool I've adjusted to work with essentially at will. That is a specialist VST equalizer from a company that specializes in a very small set of specific tools - Sound Toys is another one.
Generally as with a lot of things, doing a few things well and with focus results in a superior end product to doing a lot of things generally. That doesn't mean the native Cubase plugins don't get a lot right, it doesn't mean they aren't useable either. There are just more factors to consider when working day in and day out on a mix.
As a side note - I have found nothing at all to substitute the lofi native plugin in pro tools. Same goes for the FL Studio Blood Overdrive. It is genuinely painful to not have substitutes for those two tools in particular because I love them. The trade off working in Cubase however I wouldn't trade for the world.
Ableton's got brilliant native stuff as well etc etc etc...
It's less about tools and more about workflow in my opinion. The tools contribute to that.
Good question...I agree with @J Benoit Yes it would sound different but not necessary worst, just different depending on how well you know your tools. Some of the premium plugins I use have a tone and shapes the signal differently, this is where it will sound different in the end. Some other plugins I use for the workflow. Like the Fabfilter ProQ3 that I will cover in one of my next videos. I'm just gonna get from point A to Z faster and easier with this plugin than a stock plugin. In the end, it's all about the knowledge of the tools you work with whether you work with Stock or Premium Plugins.
Look at my friend Joe Gilder who works in Studio One (ua-cam.com/users/HomeStudioCornervideos) and mix with 95% Studio One plugins. His mixes sound freaking good and that's because he knows the tools he works with :-) I'm actually planning on working on a premium course where I will mix a song 100% using CUBASE plugins. This will come out later this year.
@@mixdownonline It would be very nice to hear the same song in two projects, one mixed with native and the other one mixed with commercial plug-ins.
try wavesfactory cassette for tape sat/sim
Thanks, I'll have alook!
Mix is the ingredients, mastering is the cooking. There parts of an assembly.
Can you give us a complete mixdown of a track. Thanks and greets
Actually, my next premium course will be a mixing on Cubase course. keep you guys posted!
Sir, which are the plugins used in master track
I don't know if you watched the entire video but I talk about all the plugins I have on my Mix Bus
@@mixdownonline On the master bus. Some muted plugins.
I always master that way is too much of a hassle to bounce it out and import it to another project, I thought about it and said that the bounced out version of the track is the bounced file of the mixbuss so if I process the mixbuss the way I was gonna do it in the master project, now I'm not saying I'm a professional cause I know Jack shit in mastering I just know what others usually do and if it sounds good and loud but consistent and true to the mix then I leave it
Hi Chris, hope you are doing great. Question...when I use my fabfilter Limiter l2, it will only work on my stereo out. It does not hold the ceiling where I set it on any of my channels or busses. Am I missing something? And sometimes it does work but then after awhile it stops working... the ceiling does not stay at say -0.5. Thanks for all your advice and help.
Not sure I follow you... A limiter will hold the ceiling on the channel it is inserted on. If you have a Limiter on all of your instrument buss channels, the ceiling will hold on each of those channels, but the not necessarily the Stereo Buss channel if no limiter is inserted there. I rarely use a limiter outside the stereo buss when I mix. I even bypass my stereo buss Limiter before I bounce for Mastering.
did you solve this issue ? I am having the same problem. my limiter are peking not matter what I do
@@OmarDiazpianista the only way I can get it to work is by inserting it after the green line on the master stereo out channel.
@@angelinagargano3940 after the green line means post fader, on the last slot? for me that still doesn't work. I just tried using the channel strip and using the stock limiter works but I can't use my 3rd party pluggings to push the signal higher...this is very strange
@@OmarDiazpianistayes post fader... sometimes I had to move it further down to like the 10th slot ...some weird bug
So you do top, bottom, middle mixing?
Greate video BTW... you mix as I do so I make me feel like I'm doing something right
Something like that...The only thing I'm faithful on is adding a compressor on my Mix Bus so I can mix into it, sometimes EQ as well and the other processing near the end of the mix. Then, anything can happen, but most of the time I will work on individual tracks...depends on the mix I'm working on though :-) I don't limit myself so if I need for some reason to mix an intrument bus before individual tracks, I will.
Thanks for this brother you could not have explained it better! I have one question. (let's use your mix as an example) If you have everything just the way u have it in the mix, "all the tracks routed to the busses" (Guitars, Drums, Organs, instruments and vocals all routed to their own busses) would you then do another bus and make it like a pre-master track with all the busses going to it before the Master or just leave it like that and just proceed to the master channel and work the processing of the mastering in general. Hope I make sense please excuse my poor English.
LOL
I can't find the on button.
What do u think about my sound? What can i do better?
Sorry, my friend but this is more of a consultation type question that I can't answer here on YT. Send me an email if you want to book a one to one consultation session info@mixdownonline.com
Can i delete and move tracks in mixer window
No, I which we could!
In my opinion anything affecting the stereo mix is mastering, premastering if you want
Thanks for you comment :-)
when you record your first guitar track of the song, you are mastering.
I think there's some confusion here...a mastering engineer does not record any instruments during mastering. Basically, when you record your first guitar track, you're not mastering, you're recording ;-)
whata dfuck are you swedish??? the track was my languau'ge : :) then i can maby ask for tipsd its eiser in swedish
No, it isn't.