How An Old Legend Overcame An Impossible Matchup
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- Опубліковано 21 вер 2024
- Street Fighter Legend Alex Valle takes on Bonchan's Sagat. Hugo is one of the worst characters in the game and Sagat is considered one of the best. Can Valle overcome one of Hugo's hardest matchups?
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He showed him he could hit him with 3 in a row, then hit him with 2 and waited for him to jump back to avoid #3, just like he wanted. Alex wasn't reading Bonchan's mind, he was programming it.
They way he dashes and sits on it after the second hit. Most people would miss it. But for Valle that pause probably felt like an eternity. Both players felt a million emotions in that split second.
Bonchan jumped back because he was afraid of hugo's command grab, something that valle baited out with the forward dash. Still a great mind game but bonchan was not trying to avoid another clap in that specific moment
That's the art of fighting. It's like when boxers faint their punches to sense what their opponent will do
Alex Pereira did this to Sean Strictland in UFC. he kept ducking to throw lower body shots, so when he conditioned dude for this, he dropped his level and threw one high and knocked him silly
combat intelligence even simulated is always so nice to witness once you know how to watch for it. even in games like Dota 2, once youve experienced the difficulty firsthand then watch these 5 professional goobers flawlessly wipe the other team in perfect sync like it's just another day...mmf, nothin like it, especially when the other players play too safe. only ever watched 2015's internationals fully, but god DAMN did I choose the right year to tune in. primarily Chinese dominated game, and one of the OG legends Fear finally got to win one with his all star lineup. 6 million dollar echo slam never gets old
This highlights the fact that top players aren't used to "bad" characters being played really well.
Mostly because they don’t really encounter them often
yeah ppl care so much about tier list that they aren't ready for a good low tier player
There's truth to this - I haven't played SF since Alpha 3 in the arcades, but I would always shock the hell out of people and send them off pissed when I'd roll up with Dan and proceed to maul them, while taunting the shit out of them the entire time which inevitably would break their concentration...
never underestimate pink hoodie lil mac
@BUTTNUTT69 There's no cope, valle undoubtedly had TONS of practice in hugo v sagat. How often has bonchan played against a good hugo playing this unexpected style?
The true sign of mastery is the fact he basically didn’t even attempt a grab. He forsook the whole point if hugo. Because he knew the anticipation was more dangerous than anything the 360 could do.
The grabbing would have made him an offensive player.. He played more defensive and rope-a-dope to get him to attack..
7:56 As someone else pointed out, that looked like a grab attempt after the dash but before the ultra
You can say, forsaking the whole point was the point.
This! He took up space in Bonchans mental stack with just the threat of a grab. It's the equlivant of putting your hand in your coat in The Godfather.
this is also a factor in MMA fights. Wrestlers knock out strikes all the time because the striker is always thinking about the takedown.
examples: Kevin Randleman vs Mirko Cro Cop, Travis Lutter vs Marvin Eastman
Its worth noting that Valle had a training session the night prior with Floe.
Yep. 2 hours iirc. RIP floe.
The random select King. The guy. He is missed
Wait Floe past away ?
@@darryuozdark7149yes
@@darryuozdark7149 yeah, unfortunately. Multiple strokes. He was surrounded by loved ones when he passed.
It's talked about a lot, but one of the biggest strategies used by Valle is never going for Hugo's Moonsault Press, his most "conventional" command grab. He does the run, he does the anti-air, but he never goes for the "main" one, and it's one Bonchan clearly is expecting with his patient gameplay. It's an incredible mind game, and one Valle plays like the expert he was and is.
That Ultra 2 was so sick what a legendary moment.
I will never forget watching this live and telling my brother, right before the match started, "THIS is how you play Sagat".
I've never been so happy to be so wrong.
Epic!
"this is how you play Sagat"
This post bought and paid for by the Ryu Gang ;)
I agree though. Must have been awesome to see it live.
Bro was like "damn, time to main Hugo instead"
Buhahahaha 😂
lmaooooo really
This will forever be one of the best sets not just in street fighter, but of fighting games themselves, right up there with stuff like nage vs omito
And Daigo vs. Momochi.
Let's not forget PRBalrog's Balrog vs Infiltration's Hakan. That set was friggin' legendary too.
❤@@slimballs9650
one thing of note: I think it helped Valle sitting right next to Bonchan. Valle is an old school arcade player, he plays mindgames outside of the game. He's constantly banging his stick, doing empty motions, pressing buttons etc, if that affects you it's really annoying.
That's not mindgames if that's true, that's just directly bothering the opponent if on purpose dude. As much as is allowed by the rules, if the rules allowed punching in fact not just punching but kicking because of society wasn't more orderly and it just "didn't hamper people's ability to play games". -_- Friendly bro fist bro smashes your kneecap -_-. Don't glorify bothering others on purpose.
@@ambiguous8661 🤓 moment.
For some empty motions help ppl like me with the rhythm of the game I do the same as well since I started video games in arcades.....I swear ppl cry for dumb shit
@@ambiguous8661that's scrub quote 4 sho
@@ambiguous8661 Listening in on your opponent's inputs to try and predict reversals and other moves with loud motions is a common tactic that many players employ, and muddling the information someone can get from your audio with false motions is a completely natural and legitimate counter to that. You're actually a moron if you think it's in the same vein as yelling at an opponent or physically assaulting them.
Will always have love for Alex Valle. Great dude.
Also mad love to Bonchan and his Sagat. He's the reason I picked up and mained Sagat. Praying I don't have to wait years for him to come back in sf6
I played so much Sagat back in SF4, so watching his tools just not work against Valle here was nuts! Like what do you mean he's just walking through the god HK???
You’ll probably have to wait years if the game is gonna stick to 4 chars a year
@DrSwazz I'll probably have quit by then sadly
@@tiredofthisshieeet Well, playing the game doesn't have to be about quitting or not quitting. Plenty of people just play it whenever they feel like it or hop in whenever a new fighter drops. I'll probably be doing the same for fighters I'm interested in 5 years from now.
I was a Sagat main in Alpha 3 and 4. He sucked in 5. I hope they bring him back with his Alpha vibes for SF6.
Love these videos. SF4 was a magical time, I don't think we'll ever have anything like it ever again.
I miss Ibuki. She was so good.
Why don't you think that?
yes we WILL ! relax friend we got u
@@erdood3235 A lot of reasons. SF4 existed in a time before the CFN existed, and before everyone was a streamer and content creator. That resulted in more hidden tech, more unique individual play styles, etc. Now a days, information spreads so fast. When one person figures out tech or something optimal, the rest of the world knows it 24-48 hours later. The incredible hype that used to exist is gone, especially when you factor in things like Modern controls. Everyone plays their characters exactly the same with the same flowchart.
Another reason is the new pro tour format. All tournaments are basically region locked now. You never see best on best until Capcom Cup, or for very rare super majors like Evo. In SF4 and early SF5, anyone could travel anywhere to try to earn points. The Pro Tour was almost kind of like the WWE, in the sense that you had the same group of competitors travelling to the same places, so you'd see amazing matches between all the godlike players every other weekend. Now we never get to see any of the big Japanese personalities until CC or Evo. I understand why Capcom adjusted the rules, I really do. But it has made the tour far less interesting to me now. I used to watch every tournament, and clear my schedule for it. Now I couldn't care any less, I only watch Evo and CC. Let's not even talk about the fact that most tournaments are online now, where cheating is possible and probably rampant.
The prize money has also reached a point where many pro gamers who don't even care about fighting games are being attracted to the e-sport. The only reason they're here is the dollaz. In the SF4 days the prize money was miniscule. Again, I do agree that bigger prize money is a good thing overall, but you can't deny that in the SF4 days those guys were grinding for nothing other than pride, competition, and a pure love of fighting games no matter how unpopular they were. The passion has been diluted.
The FGC in the SF4 era was still underground and grassroots. The outside world didn't care about it, but everyone who was involved knew how special it was. Whether you were a competitor, a casual, or a spectator, we were all in on a secret that the rest of the world wasn't in on, and it felt cool.
It was also a time that existed before cancel culture and white knighting. Everyone had thicker skin, and the world overall was just less fucked.
@@VFXShawnI miss elena and rose. As well as dudley and Rufus. :(
This was 8 years ago and Infiltration currently looks younger than he did in this video.
because of the hair
I remember a quote or something from back in 2003 about one dude who mained KOF with a weird low tier team. He didn't win often, but this is what he said:
"If I win with Iori, K' and Adelheid I'm just another good player. If I win with Maxima, Chang and Shingo, I'll be a legend."
I think everyone who played KoF has had that experience where they think they are pretty good and then their mate beats them with Chang through mastery of distance. Just funny that it happened at the highest level
Small correction:
Sagat’s high tiger shot is only tied for the 3rd fastest fireball at 11f (low tiger is 12f)
Guile LP/MP/HP Boom = 9F
Poison EX FB = 9f
Chun HP/EX FB = 10F
There are a couple other 11Fs but they require meter (Ryu/Guile EX) or prep (Juri release)
🙄
SF4 was the game I played ranked in the most of the series. Had an above average Dan. Only won like 46% of the time, but that was in thousands of matches. And people HATE losing to him. It was so much fun back then.
I had a casual-decent Dan in Alpha 3. Yahoo!
I used to beast with Dan on Ranked and in my local meetups. The rage fueled me thru college. It helps that no one, and I mean know one, knew how to consistently deal with lk. Dankyaku pressure 😆
I dont know why I enjoyed that game as a kid, maybe the cover intro. But it definitely was some great memories
I'm garbage at fighting games but even I'm impressed with knowing how chunky Hugo feels to the rest of the cast as a auper casual player. Jesus that was impressive to watch.
I remember watching that live. One of the hypest matches i saw. I sometimes miss SF4.
I was lucky to be there at Evo 2015
Yeah. SF6 is really great, exspecially after shitty SF5 but nothing beats watching SF4 tournaments for me
SF4 really came out at the right time. Fighting games had been niche for a while, and SF4 came back with the full nostalgia of SF2, while still being able to draw in a lot of new players.
I still remember launching the game and hearing that cheesy "Indestructible" song, and desperately trying to learn those FADC combos that now feels like second nature.
Also Capcom: BRING BACK MAKOTO DAMMIT, IT'S TIME! :D
Hey papalobster, thank you for what you do for the fighting game community. These commentaries and retelling of stories is always so quality.
you are the standard for fighting game content to me
Sagat in the Thumbnail: 😡
Hugo in the Thumbnail: 😱
ALWAYS looking forward to new videos from you documenting competitive fighting game history.
I watch that match everytime it pops into my mind every few months, legendary moment in FGC history.
Deadass bro, any excuse to rewatch this match. This and KBR vs Fchump, everytime someone does a new story its insta-watch.
All these years later and Tio Valle’s performance is still mesmerizing. Actual work of art in motion the way this man’s brain was working there
He may be rough but seeing my favorite SF character masterfully played is always a joy
Even the weakest character in the right hands can be a devastating foe. Great job! Subbed!
What was crazy to me was that Bonchan played as if he was trying to avoid the moonsault and not get hit by it. Valle didn't even go for moonsault the entire set.
I've been wondering when you were gonna cover this!
What you don’t see is scarier than what you do see - Steven Spielberg
Good narration, well researched the content is solid man. Hope the channel grows!
And Valle is still active even today. Check out some of his recent Third Srike videos. He's one of the very few plaeyrs that makes Twelve a respectable character, one to watch out for.
Alex Valle, as far as I know, has always been a class act and he's witnessed the many ups and downs of the FGC. He was present during the world-famous Daigo parry. He was right in the middle between Lowtiergod and Viscant during their legendary beef. I would describe Valle as an aggressive "natural" with instincts that supercede his technique and methodology. A successful and flashy risk-taker.
I remember watching this on twitch and how exciting it was. Glad to see you covering this!
Sagat wasnt S-tier at that time, hed been through several nerfs at that point. The matchup however was a 7-3, arguably 6-4 matchup in sagats favor.
Agreed. Guy is talking like this is vanilla Sagat or something
@@josephshin9297Yeah...you can tell who played back then and who didn't. You can't ignore the 5 versions of the game and how some characters were very different each version.
Hugo was also largely underrated by the japanese at that point, they were saying Hugo was the worst character in the game. (A bit like how they got surprised by luffy's rose)
Came here to say this. Sagat was maybe top-mid tier if we are being generous. There was really nothing he was 'good' at in this era of the game.
I was wondering bout that lol.
As someone who barely payed attention to the FGC, this match is one I still remember fondly. A true testament to the power of fundamentals, that long-time competitors can still give the newer players a run for their money.
Valle's continued ability to show up and crush top players outside of top 60 is inspiring
Ngl Valle makes Hugo look like an S tier, great video by the way!
for melee players, this is like a bowser beating Cody
I like how Valle makes Hugo look kind of like a movie monste with the incredibly slow creeping towards the wall.
Man, i remember watching this match live and absolutely losing my mind. Kinda got my competitive spirit kick started tbh
This match was so hype to watch live
Sagat was hardly an S-tier in USF4.
He was a C+ or B tops, and only Bonchan was playing him properly.
But we need to chase that YT clout with the thumbnails I guess.
"It doesn't MATTER what you notes say!!"
I absolutely love your video analysis of the FGC momments!
FUCKING AMAZING BREAKDOWN!! i've never seen this match before and i FELT THE HYPE. I think it would help for the casual noob FGC viewer to point out hugo's ultra punishes jump back, and a scared opponent tends to do that. then the viewer can see AND recognize the panic in bonchan's movements
‘A young up and comer called Daigo Umehara’
The rest, as they say, is history.
One of my newer friends who's now one of my best friends introduced me to fighters the last couple of years and he gave me a crash course of some legendary moments in the FGC around the start of this year. He's a little older than me, but he and his friends (also now mine) were in the audience when this set happened. They're definitely one of the sets of pumping hands or jumping heads in the background behind the front audience lol. But this is his favorite FGC set of all time or one of his favorites. Hearing him talk about watching something legendary like thus unfold is one of the main reasons I'm so into fighters now. He sounded so passionate and I imagine it's such a thrill to see moments like this happen right before your eyes. Makes me jealous I'm so late to the party lol.
But I hope I can say I've seen one of these myself someday, hopefully with these new friends of mine. They've been in the community for a long time and say now is a new age of fighters, theres plenty of opportunity to see FGC history unfold and make memories like he did with this one. And I hope so.
sf4 was a beautiful time man. So many memories i have
This was sick, I loved it! I've been getting into street fighter UA-cam content recently and have already found so much great stuff.
I remember watching this live and that pop at the end still gets me. Was amazing watching Valle just show up with Hugo
What a beauty. Who ever got this one struck gold. Literally. Beautiful beige with a brown top
"Make it clap make it applause. These haters on my body shake them off." - Young M.A
Wild misinformation right there in the thumbnail and first few seconds of the video:
1) Sagat has not S tier in USF4, what are you talking about? He has been mid tier ever since he got nerfed in Super SF4. This was 13 years ago dude.
2) Hugo was not F tier nor the worst character in the game, WTF. There are definitively characters a lot worse than him (notably Dan and Dee Jay). He has been considered an alright character since the game came to console. He actually tends to have very polarizing matchups: loses pretty hard to zoners (yes, like Sagat), but can bully the shit out of characters who can't keep him out. If you have to fight Hugo up close, you're gonna have a bad time. He's a monster and many of his moves are wildly overtuned to make up for his slowness and size.
Yes Sagat is a very hard matchup for Hugo, but only because it's a grappler vs zoner match. This is not the Top Tier Vs Bottom Tier matchup you're making it seem like. Arguably it's just a matchup between two mid tiers.
Thanks for covering one of my favorite SF4 matches😊
I really enjoyed your breakdown of the rounds and how each character fights and moves.
Great video.
This reminds me of the victory of Vegapatch using FANG against Kawano using Luke in SFV latest Capcom Cup.
The literal bottom tier character against the literal TOP tier one. It was SO hype.
coolest part is how valle went for 0 SPDs. if the strikes keep working there is no reason to risk a throw
“Old legend” Alex catching the biggest stray of his career right here
absolute domination. my man valle was LOCKED IN
We love to see someone say "fuck the matchup, fuck the tier list, we BALL"
You can’t teach composure, that’s just a textbook display of experience.
Thankful the algorithm showed me this. I don’t love street fighter as much as other fighting game franchises but seeing an underdog win is always a treat!
7:58 a classic to tell children lol !
I have waited oh so patiently for you to cover this specific moment!!! 😊😊😊
The extra cool thing is that pretty much all strongest japanese players had been calling Hugo "trash" since he was released.
As Snakeyez said talking about the Zangief-Sagat match "practice your worst matchup until it becomes your best one".
.
Personal note: I really miss that period, when MIke Ross and Gootecks would host weekly shows with all the best american players, later joined by Xian and Zhi for the asian side of businness.
Is there still some "centralized" way to follow the best players? Or everybody is streaming on their own on Twitch? I wouldn't mind following SF a bit closer again, not just watch EVO once a year.
Please, look at 7:50
3 devastating claps. After that, Hugo attack with 2 claps, the second one boosted to scare even more to Bonchan. Then Alex dashes, and make a PAUSE, so Bonchan have time to react and jump to avoid the third clap.
Just what Alex wanted him to do.
You explained everything so well...thank you for this exciting breakdown!
Love how you combine the story AND the technical aspects…
you should put the full fight in the comments or description
This was brutal. Pure timing pressure and perfect distance measurements.
Love stories like this, I hope youd do more. Subscribed!
ah i love vids like this- especially w/ Valle and the other old heads cause I feel less ancient xD I miss this game so much, its still the most hype game ever
Welp this is twice now Hugo beat a High tier character
For what it’s worth, sagat was never one of the best characters outside of his vanilla version. In saying that, sagat does destroy Hugo.
I remember watching this and thought there was no way Alex and his Hugo would sweep. I knew Hugo was a monster because his claps could eat fireballs and the match that Max had against a Hugo that made him scream. Never underestimate these "low tiers", if this years Evo is any proof of that.
We need just a tournament specifically for vet tournament winners. It would ve amazing to Alex back on the sticks.
Man SF4 was so good. Xian winning Evo with Gen is another great underdog tale. Also my favourite low tier player Haitani in the top ten that year playing Makoto.
Man, I miss these moments. You don't really get to see these kind of plays in SF6 when everyone is using the same top 5 characters. There are some exceptions, but it's much less frequent.
I'm so glad to have been there to see SF4 in its heyday. Those were some of the best tournaments I've ever seen.
Maybe these young bloods forgot:
This is Mr. Street Fighter
I remember playing Third Strike with this dude in Bangkok, I was playing Ken and he absolutely wrecked my shit with Hugo 😂
This is why Hugo is canonically The Big Potato.
This was one for the books. He didn't win the entire competition, but making it this far with this character had the crowd electric.
Local 7 feet tall German gives free hugs and handshakes.
This legend was playing a city away from me while I was still an ankle-biter. That IS some lore I'd like to hear!
This is my favorite match of all time. Watched it countless times and still love it.
It's not about if a character is considered the best or the worst, it's about how you play the character. If you know the strengths and weaknesses perfectly then you can overcome any matchup. Sure it will be considerably harder for certain matchups but nothing is impossible.
I know next to nothing about beat 'em ups; this video was handed to me by The Algorithm. But even I could see that whilst Bonchan went into every round trying to switch up his approach, or 'trying this' or 'trying that' to see what will work against Valle's Hugo, Valle had one game plan and confidently stuck to it. He was in control the entire time and it showed.
Gouken vs Hugo is THE impossible match up
Sagat was not S tier in this version, but this is a bad match up for Hugo
That’s a great idea I hope this project is like the old days of the Excellent Adventures!!
I dont think Bonchan was trying to specifically avoid the grab, Sagat's got a really bad backdash, so one of his safest ways to make space is to jump backwards, especially vs Hugo who's going to have to commit to a very risky option to chase him down or just slowly attempt to get in again where Sagat's in his element. You can see once he gets hit with an ex backbreaker he starts using the backdash to make space more, since EX is the only one that reliably catches backdashes and will whiff on both options at that range. Also Sagat's roundhouse is 2 hits which breaks st.hp armor and while the second hit usually whiffs on crouching opponents it can often times still tag Hugo crouching.
this one of them you are 1000 years too early to challenge me
AV didn't pick in to the worst match up. He picked the one matchup that would surprise and put pressure on Bonchan. Sometimes the illogical choice is the only logical one. Very 80's movie. "A plan so crazy. It just might work." move.
Hugo was the best grappler to fight Sagat cause he had a lot of tools that would be common place in SFV: fireball deleting specials, armored moves, etc.
Always calls to mind Rangchu's Panda. Sick
Sagat is one of my favorites but seeing an underdog character beat him was very cool
This character always freaks me out. It looks and moves like an abnormal titan.
I saw the thumbnail and already knew what match we were talking about here.
Classic battle of wills. "I know what you want to do. You know what I want to do."
If you take anything away this video, it's "fuck the tierlist, we ball."
Wish I knew how gaming would take off like it did. I am to this day still undefeated on a street fighter 2 machine. It’s been over 20 years since I played now so obviously I can’t hang with theses guys. Back in the day I would own the machine all day long with a single quarter.
If you’re using a big, slow and strong character, you gotta eat away their health until you get an opening. Like he did while using Hugo.