FINALLY!! The RV Upgrade I Have Been Waiting to Do For Years!!
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- Опубліковано 27 січ 2024
- While I knew my 4 AGM 6 volt house batteries were losing their capacity, I discovered that they could not even make it one night while camping with my son in Quartzite, AZ while attending the Big Tent RV Show. Needless to say, as I am heading back out again in just a week, I needed new batteries and fast.
Last time, I used some old AGM batteries as a stand-in until I decided which real house batteries to get and did a bunch of research for the last few years too. While watching other more battery centric UA-cam channels like I have basically come to the opinion that most imported batteries use very similar cells and they have been reliable. So when I did the math on these Vatrer 460ah single battery compared to multiple batteries, the $1400 seemed to be a good deal, and the unique steel box construction seemed to tip the scales for me. Also, I needed a new battery quick so I ordered in on Amazon, just in case I needed to return it.
So here is my house battery upgrade on my motorhome and I look forward to prolonged testing. So far I have been very happy.
Hopefully, I will get the part 2 out as soon as I can because simply replacing with Lithium is not the only step or consideration on a motorhome. Thanks for watching!
www.vatrerpower.com/collectio...
Vatrer 12VRV460 battery: amzn.to/4bg9oZ0
6% OFF discount code: "AZEXPERT6"
See @LithiumSolar review here: • MASSIVE 12V 460Ah LiFe... - Авто та транспорт
Don't forget to change the charging profile of the Magnum charger controller to Lithium.
You're so dang thorough with your information sharing And entertaining. It's nice that you're so conscientious about the information you put out. Thanks for another great vlog!
Great quick install !!! Version 2.0 suggestions, base plate with a layer of rigid insulation foam and a layer of rubber for vibration isolation while driving down the road. Filter fabric taped over the box vents to keep the fine dust out. It looks so fine that it will creep into every nook of the circuit boards inside the box. I wonder if you could mount it inside under a cabinet to keep it safe from the elements and thieves. It is more of an electronic device like a T.V. than a rugged AGM battery. Thanks always for such great content.
I just did the swap last month. I looked at those same batteries but ended going with 2 FOIIOE VESTWOODS VC 12300 Plus $629.00 Ea. for a total of 600AH. I have 1600 watts flat mounted on the roof and went 5 days without the generator in Quartzite, they shut down before making it 6 days. The drive back to Phoenix gave me 100% SOC. No problem running the microwave, hair dryer or air fryer, one at a time. I programed a lithium profile and now working on a Lithium Battery Isolation Manager and a DC/DC charger. There is a lot to doing the changeover but very doable for a DIY'er. Thanks for all your videos, you are my goto guy before I star my projects in most cases.
Picked one of these Vatrer 460ah batteries up 8 months ago for $1,200 shipped, and no tax in Oregon😊. It's been great, so far. No more golf cart or AGMs ever again.
Got mine for 4 years now and is still as good as new.❤❤
Wow! 460ah! Nice replacement. I manage highway construction fleet. I have been upgrading all our solar arrow trailers and message boards and radar trailers to lifepo4. I am about 4 years in without a failure. And no servicing no corrosion. I weld them in a box for theft prevention. I am completely sold on them.
Good to know...
😇
Great video! Thank you for sharing your knowledge. I plan to make a similar upgrade to our 2014 Tiffin Phaeton. We will make you proud! 🙂
Always appreciate your videos as those of us who are mechanically inclined see how easy these R&R's are. Much appreciated 👍
You may want to add a DC to DC charger. This battery can over-tax your alternator.
Probably until you do this, make sure you charge up the lipo battery (generator or magnum) before running your engine only to charge
Amen to that!
Also consider a Progressive Circuits Li-BIM 225 Lithium Battery Isolation Manager to protect and not overwork your alternator.
I was considering going to LIPO, but my inverter is too old a vintage to support, and I'm not ready to make those changes on a 35 year old rig. Also, I was told by the battery company that alternators cannot be directly connected to these batteries. Something about their capacitance (ior lack thereof) makes them have to have something in between such as a DC to DC charger or similar. Given all of this, I'm still with my AGM setup. But I really like this idea.
Dang, even batteries are sporting Rolex timepieces. I need to step up my game
Congratulations on the upgrade! 1/2 the weight, double the usable power and 10-15 times the duty cycles of AGM. Lithium is a no-brainer.
Thankyou son, awaiting the part 2.
Good job. Lifepo4 is the way to go. When I did my safari. I replaced the inverter to get 85 amps charging and to be lifepo4 friendly. I also had to ditch the battery isolator charger and install a DC to DC charger. As a 200ah lifepo4 will take 200 amps if it wants it( potential alternator overheat problem) I used a renogy 40amp dc to dc charger. In addition to 200 watts solar it was great.
Now in a ventana with 600 watts solar and 400ah lifepo4. All is working great!
That was a nice conversion . I changed out to the BattleBorn batteries in my ‘22 Winnebago gasser. Mine were under the entry step which is a pain. I like your setup.
Thank you for showing us your conversion.
If you are concerned with the cold you can always put a waste tank heater pad on it.
Terrific James. Looking forward to part 2. Happy trails!
Excellent work, nice clean work and nice “keep the honest , honest strap downs. You will be stoked with your new batteries. Hopefully you have an apple tag on the coach and I guess if you opened the battery you can add a tag but you will have to change the battery once a year.
Yes, those lead acid batteries can be recycled. Many battery stores will pay you for them. I installed two lithium that replaced two lead acid Trojan and the a local battery and cable company made up the new cables I needed for the Trojans.
I upgraded to lithium batteries and upgraded to 900 amp hour capacity and moved them inside because it’s easier and they don’t like the cold. Added 1200 watts of solar and my rig runs on its own all time even with my residential on all the time.
Great info as usual! Looking forward to the next video to show the charging updates.
And don't forget the follow up of changing your magnum inverter to cc/cv and the settings.
My question was a concern guven my understanding of charging differences but it sounds like you will be addressing that in part 2 haha.
Thanks for sharing, James!
Thanks for the video. Just changed my converter to accept lithium and was looking for a battery. Looked like they have a 230ah in that model. Now I don’t have to put in a new battery cut off switch or a shunt. This is great and the reviews on UA-cam were good on quality of connections and wire gauge inside.
One thing that I'm not sure you mentioned that's really important for people to know is that you have to have a charging system that can actually support a lithium iron phosphate battery. Standard lead acid battery charging systems will only charge these to around 50% so if you don't already have a system that can handle it you'll have to upgrade in order to fully charge them.
Nope the BMS takes care of that
@@albertodelaiglesia9275 not true. The BMS is capable of stopping charging in an overcharge event but the BMS can't increase the charge voltage to the cells. The problem is that the lead acid charging algorithm will stop charging before the lithium ion phosphate battery is fully charged. The BMS can't do anything about that.
I think know what you have part 2. Inverter charger charging? 12volt alternator to 12volt house and chassie charging. Good on you James
Not true. A good lead acid charging system will charge a lithium to about 80%. Most lithium manufacturers say the longest life for their batteries will come if you keep the SOC between 20%-80%. You only need a lithium charger to balance the cells once in a while. The lead acid chargers don't have a high enough voltage to do that. That said, a good lithium charger will be easier but you shouldn't let it charger above 80% if you want too get maximum life on battery. Geesh... that's like 10 years! So I f don't worry about it. Lol
Forgot to mention. James... Make sure you check the charging current with engine running. With a low lithium battery, you could easily burn up your alternator if the wire size is large enough and the wire run from the engine alternator to the battery is short enough. Lithium batteries have very low resistance so they will accept as much current as they can get. Yours says it will accept a 200 amp charge? That could easily be far more than the alternator can give. Check charging current with lithium around 20% SOC. If it's high, get a DC to DC charger and put in line between the alternator and the battery.
I appreciate how practical and realistic you are with all your projects. Like the stainless bolts. Meh, as you said, other areas would likely be an issue before you worry about bolts. Keep up the great work!
Thank you very much!
@@AZExpert
Lithium PROFILE was changed/ setup ,,,Right😮 part two 🎉
@@AZExpert
Victron Energy just put out a new 50 amp DC-DC charger
A Stellar job!
get a battery heating blanket for when you go to cold areas or get one that goes under it and will keep it above freezing which will turn off the battery.
That was a good-looking upgrade. I will be curious to see the rest of the install.
Great video.
Please be sure your converter is set up for lithium.
Lithium and lead acid charge differently
that's what I was thinking also??
Just did a similar upgrade this weekend. Removed 4 wet batteries and installed two 200 ah batteries. Cleaned up a mess of wires and acid spill. Like you had to create custom tray for new set up. Reprogrammed the magnum charger. Next step is to add DC to Dc charger to protect alternator. My bay door locks so I plan to just put a strap over the batteries to secure, however your solution looks better and might change to it.
I knew that was you! I pointed out your coach to my husband and said, there's James, the Az Rv Expert 😃 Hubby just grunted and said, he doubted it. Lol.
Great video. I am glad we ran across it because the other commenters answered my questions about charging lifepo4 batteries. 👍
That is awesome! Where was that? At the show?
You should be able to buy a locking latch assembly. Look at a place like Thomas Hardware and such. Maybe look for the casting that fits on Cast Products and then adapt.
Very cool, i'm looking at doing the same exact swap out. Can't wait to see your charge set up and any tips you can share👍 I think I would use a piece of filter cloth to cover the air holes to keep the DUST out of the battery ! ☹
Thank you James! Just traded my 2022 Entegra Vision XL that I had upgraded to two BB 100 AH batteries and a new 2000 watt Xantrex inverter charger and VictronConnect Dc to Dc charger. We now have a 2019 Tiffin Phaeton. I am swapping my 6 6 V lead acids for a single Vatrer 480 today. Your videos have been very helpful. I am taking on your perspective on not going overboard by investing in a new inverter to replace the Magnum. I just want a battery capability that gets us overnight in a boondocking (Harvest Host or Cracker Barrel). We are not boondockers. So, if I only get my battery to 90 %, We should survive OK. I am also installing DC to DC charger as the Li-Bim seems not to be reliable. Love you videos.
Welcome to the lithium battery power club. Great video upgrade. Thanks Don
Thanks 👍
Buying directly form the manufacturer's website will save you a couple hundred bucks.
Just instal a piece of ply under the battery and add a canvas style battery heating pad that would get its power from the battery ;)
I usually snowbird in Quartzsite in the winter , didn’t make it this winter because of health problems. Friends said there are a lot of RV,s in the desert and the big tent was packed
You made me a believer! I was also at the big tent last week looking at batteries, needed 4 coach batteries. Ordered the Vatrer 460 following your recommendation. I also have a Beaver coach, a 2002 Patriot with a similar setup. Looking forward to your next video to see what further steps will be needed. Thanks for the discount code!
That is awesome!
Thanks for another informative video. Give us a update on your next video. Thanks
I would move the small wires so they can't rub the battery case. This battery looks like a real winner!
you should try the 12v led light strip mod to those silly interior lights. get rid of the ballast and tubes.
I'm with you, guy--these big Vatrer batteries look terrific, first class. I just ordered two to replace the house battery in my class B camper, should give me cold, quiet AC all night long!
Install should be EZ as the stock house battery was also a 12.8v LiFePO4, albeit only 270AH.
You can fit two of those battery's more amp hours won't hurt it will benefit 😉
You can wire up to 4 of these in parallel.
You could probably get a used Trimark 400 series paddle handle with lock cylinder and rekey the tumbler to match your other bay door locks. I did that for my father in law on his 2003 Monaco.
LiFePO4 for rhe win! Only thing that surprised me on the fabrication was that you didn't fit a plywood base to spread the weight over the metal framing vs that one crossmember. Enjoy the upgrade!!!
wood and plywood in external bays that had battery acid covering them just won't work for long.
@@AZExpert Learn something new with every video and comment. Thanks!
As for secure. Maybe install some kind of security cage in front of batteries and behind the basement door. You could use locks to keep it closed.
You are too good of a salesman. They are sold out. lol
Lots of good, constructive comments! Covered about all I was going to say. My Entegra has a thin plastic floor on the battery box, just screwed to the frame to help with the dirt and water spray. I'd be very concerned with that open vent into the battery box. You could spray the lower half of your battery with the rubber undercoating...... I really like the built-in shunt! Oh, and that's what buss bars are for...... Victron make a real nice one. Keep up the good work!
Great stuff, James! Thank you! I thpught your chassis batteries were house batteries, figuring you had 8 golf cart batteries. Glad you got so much additional power! :-) Looking forward to seeing how you adjust your power management system controller to know that it is dealing with lithium instead of AGM batteries. Safe travels and the side-view mirrors do look great! :-)
Excellent presentation. Thank you. I am interested to see how the charging voltage is from both the generator in the RVs engine. It would be interesting to put a clamp meter on there to see how many amps they can send and if the battery overload them. Hopefully they can push 14.4v or more to the battery so that you can get a full charge.
Hi James. Quite a significant upgrade! Love it. We rarely boondock so I can’t afford or,justify that upgrade but it is sweet for those that can. My Navigator came from the factory with 8 6v batteries but I recently downsized to 4 new Napa wet batteries which works fine for us,since we are plugged in to 50 amps about 95% of the,time. I did, however, upgrade to a new Denso starter and to3 start batteries since the Cummins 525 seemed to,have a slow turnover. Thanks for sharing!
Lol we boondocked in Quartzsite this weekend. I want one of these, my trailer's battery isn't enough for my 12v fridge for even two days in the winter of California desert
Yes I agree, victron just came out with a new 50 amp Orion XS DC to DC charger.
Thx for the education
Someone told me that the full load figure (i.e. the quoted 6.5 A) figure on standard fridges is the spike load as the compressor kicks in, and settles to a lower value while it's running.
Hey James, greeting from Tucson. Back when they built the "Greatest " rv. I suspect that there weren't any battery thefts ocurring. Hence no locks.lol..........keep on truckin:)
I also want to keep all terminals close to the outside, so I would figure out how to turn the battery around.
There are proper gloves out there that will help protect your hands from injury via that grinder blade.
By far one of the most dangerous power tools out there, especially when you take the guard off.
Personally, on security I would take some 3/16” angle and for the top and use 1/2” all thread to secure the battery in 2 to 3 places then weld the nuts to the all thread.
Two things: 1.) You might be able to order a locking compartment handle. 2.) You also may want to get a LiFePO4 compatable Converter, as the one in most RVs are only usable for lead-acid batteries.
I went lithium on my toy hauler. Never going back to lead acid. That said, is 250a discharge enough for your coach? Some of those diesel pushers have big boy inverters in them.
read many diff opinions about the alt getting burned up due to fast charging. Interested in your take on this?
next video
I guess my real questions, are the alternator "timed" battery isolators important? Other blogs vary in how important these are? I have an old hart 458 2000 watt invert/charger. Will this work to charge the new LiFePo4 battery? @@AZExpert
If you bend the hold down bolts 90 deg. at the top that will discourage someone from just unscrewing the nuts so easily.
Oh darn! We missed you in Quartzsite! We were there last week, then down to Yuma for a couple days.
I was looking into the Chins to swap out my LA batteries. They have 4-100ah for $920 (last time I checked). My thinking is, if you have 4 & one goes down for some strange reason you still have 3 to work with. 🤷♀️ Good job anyways!
Nice work, and I like that you went with the off brand amazon specials vs the Battleborns. They're like 90% as good and 1/4 the price. I've worked in the UPS industry for 22 years now and the failure rate on Lifepo4 is just ridiculously low. More often then not its something like a bad lug that breaks during install rather than a "bad battery". As long as you arent paying the brand name tax to Battle Born or Lithionics, Lithium is super cheap when you break it down to $ per kwh over the course of its life. We just got back from Quartzsite With our 2400watts of panels and 600ah of "Power Queen" cheapie batteries and they served us very well.
Our minds seem to be thinking the same
I go cheap on the batteries and panels, but splurge on the victron inverters and charge controllers. I feel like the premium hardware actually gives you better performance, but for storage and generation the only goal is the most I can get for the least money. @@AZExpert
Yeah, don't get into the specification weeds. The new battery's BMS will keep your battery operations into a window. As said below, change charge profile. I would do something to keep dust away from the battery - not sure what, though. A sock? Blanket? Also, noting the recent horror stories from the northern states with EVs, temperature control and moderation is a consideration. Kinda a cool upgrade.
The Nomadic Fanatic "Eric" is in Quartzite Az and said it's been raining a lot and no sun. Everyone was running their generators.
Don't you need to reprogram the solar controller to charge at 14.1V for lithium? Also, wouldn't you want a new charger/converter that's lithium compatible?
He probably needed to reprogram his controller to charge up to 14.6, as that is where the top balancing occurs. He will probably cover your questions in his next video.
Nice battery , these be coming with the battery power grinder where i'm at.
Not needing a $128 shunt makes this a great battery !
Hopefully it's been covered to death in the comments, but in a previous vid I saw you only had a single solar panel on the roof, that looked like a 12v panel. Time to massively upgrade that, I'd go with 3 or 4 300-watt (or higher) panels, 36 volt or 42 volt or similar. Run those into an MPPT charge controller and never worry about power again. And never have to run that generator unless you're running air conditioning.
Yes, I upgraded to nearly 1000watts on the roof.
@@AZExpertAwesome. I figured, but had to mention just in case. Great work on all your videos, been binge watching.
I am a bit disappointed that you didn't take the time to clean up your battery storage bay and try. This was the perfect opportunity to rehab that very important area of the coach. Guess you are more of a function over cosmetics guy. I'm not judging. I'm just surprised.
I've owned 7 RV's going back to 1986. Aways took pride in keeping them in pristine condition. Before RV's we were into performance cars and boats - guess that is where these habits were developed. Enjoy your channel-always enjoy learning.
It's an open bay and once acid is in the steel there's no getting it out had been my experience
Gee, not a Battleborn battery. Good to see a good quality non-premium battery used in a UA-cam video!
Battleborn is a good battery with a 100% premium for the name.
I'm a relatively new sub to your channel. I recently acquired a 1986 Winnebago elandan limited edition and your channel has been a huge leap forward for my remodeling and repairs(its going to end up as a spaceballs themed burning man artcar). I look forward to seeing more great content from you.
That sounds amazing
It's not even really the 50% SOC max recommended depth of discharge that's the problem with lead acid, but rather the voltage. At 50% SOC, lead acid batteries are down to 12V. Take them any lower, and not only are you shortening your battery life, but at less than 12V, a lot of devices (like a large inverter) do not run happily. With Lithium (LiFePO4, LFP, Lithium-iron) the voltage at 50% SOC is about 12.8V, and you don't get down to 12V until you have discharged 95-98% of the SOC (depending on the amperage load). So LFP batteries are comfortable themselves when well below 50% SOC, and so are their loads!
Great points!
I am wondering if by eliminating the vertical part of the battery tray if you weakened the structural ability of the shelf to hold the weight of the new battery causing that one strip of metal to bend down under the load and allow your $1400 to drop down and disappear?
VATRER is the Brand
Li… I don’t know enough to comment there, but I was holding my breath when you had your side grinder throwing sparks near your lead acid chassis batteries! If they are off gassing even a little, can cause a nasty explosion. People have been injured from explosions just hooking up jumper cables! Please be careful James!
I would like ro see the battery compartment made secure ,its certainly vulnerable as it is .
Does just one battery leave exposed to problems? Obe Battery even as good as it sounds, could leave you in a situation if the one died for whatever reason ?
Drill a hole in slide track and put in a pad lock to secure batteries.
You could also put a key lock on your door maybe Trimark
Congratulations on the upgrade .. lithium is the only way to go
Without that Magnum shunt on the Neg side, your Magnum % of SOC function will not work (if you also have the BMK). I installed a hybrid Magnum AND Victron setup, so wired both shunts in series on the Neg side. Displays on both systems match perfectly. Also, your Magnum might have a CC/CV charging profile and that’s what many Chinese manufacturers recommend using for their Li batteries. Keep in mind that Lithium batteries DO NOT like storage at 100% SOC. Nice video as usual.
Good on ya 😊
Just curious as to what you’re going to do about charging from the alternator. Standard alternator will usually work to hard due to the very low internal resistance of a LiPo. Great video as always.
I was under the impression you need a dc to dc charger to save the alternator as well as a compatible charger/converter.
@@FrankBullitt390 One option is the WakeSpeed WS500 Smart Regulator, programmable to meet your battery and alternator needs. I currently use a Victron Dc to Dc charger.
I'm using a Lithium Battery Isolation Manager - Progressive Circuits Li-BIM 225 to keep from over taxing my alternator. It takes the place of the battery boosters, the battery maintainer and the stock battery isolator. No need for a DC/DC charger with this setup.
Nice, beefy LiFPo4 with temp/humidity bling on the top!
love the buc-ees magnet, you made it look easy but Im curious about your inverter did it need to be one that can handle lithium batteries?
Li battery isolator needs to be installed. You can kill your alternator.
Li BIM -225
Woooowhooo nice! ❤
Thanks! 😄
KEYLESS DOOR LOCK or latching solenoid i think would do it,if a lockable replacement door handle can no be found.Just a thought
Its like having an oz of gold sitting in your basement.
Power hungry RV. ❤
Where's that teenage son to help lift those batteries :)
Great DIY video
Great video James, I bought a Vatrer 100Ah lithium battery for my travel trailer, shameless plug, RocketCityRVer on UA-cam. I also changed the trailers converter/charger to the lithium compatible one. I also have the exact same app, weird name, but it works well and they have pushed out a recent update which now shows both Celcius and Fahrenheit for battery temperatures.
I did do some very basic testing of the battery running a brand new Furrion 12V refrigerator and I was extremely impressed with what this 1 battery would do. Again, always enjoy your video, you've given me some great ideas over the years...the best of which was the new elongated RV toilet, haha.
My 12v fridge has been on a solid year with a second hand 100ah li bat.Checked it yesterday and it only put out 84ah of use.Unbalanced perhaps?
Well, as James stated, he's not promoting this particular battery, neither am I, several UA-camrs have talked about the manufacturer, one tore one open, looked at construction. To me, to them, it seemed like a good value.
I cannot speak to the longevity, but for a second hand, 89 aH is pretty good I would say. 🙂
Nice!!
Great job like always take good care for whach you do from home Nicaragua thinking to change my batteries for this one i own Sonova istaca 2003 its posible to keep both this one and regular like you did i think? Love you and god bless you the old man going back to CALIFORNIA SF soon
$1400 wow. I can't open my battery tray. Need to replace dead batteries. 👍
James Rocks!
I installed a 12 volt 320 amp hr LFP Lithium battery in my 2008 Triple E Commander (Fred) it had orginaly what I installed was 2 x Group 8D 12volt AGM at 160lbs each and I had to install a DC to DC converter (60amp) to protect the Coach alternator, as the battery will take everything plus more out of your alternator and cause it to overheat and possibly fry. I have a BIRD (Bidirectional charging relay) with the coach which switches coach and chassis batteries with the alternator and inverter charger but it does not work with Lithium voltages. So now I just used the conductors from the Alternator to the Renogy 12V 60A DC to DC On-Board Battery Charger and that in turn is connected to the house batteries. I can set the lithium on the output. The other thing I did was installed an upgraded Magnum ME-ARC remote display control panel that supports Lithium, and also the Magnum BMS so I can accurately track the input and output amps as Lithium Iron Phosphate have a very low voltage differential when at 100% verses say 5% capacity, tracking amps in and out is far better to manage the charging. The only thing I need to do next is install a time delay relay to allow the coach to charge the chassis batteries for the first 1/2 hour of driving before engaging the DC to DC converter, this is simple as the Renogy has a terminal to enable or disable the converter.