We Built a MASSIVE Lithium Battery Bank with Alibaba LifeP04 Cells!
Вставка
- Опубліковано 10 лют 2025
- Episode 2 - This is our DIY Battery Bank for the boat we live on!
👉 Want to get the inside scoop of all things Tangaroa and get early access to ALL OUR VIDEOS from BOTH CHANNELS? If so, you can join us here on Patreon
⭐PATREON: / onboardtangaroa1969
Welcome Aboard Tangaroa! We're preparing for an epic voyage from Victoria, BC to Japan via Siberia. Subscribe now and be a part of this incredible journey!
Check out our other channel: Exploring the World Onboard Tangaroa:
www.youtube.com/ @OnboardTangaroa
--------------------------------------------
➡️ Want to know more about Tangaroa? If yes, click here: www.onboardtan...
🆓 Sign up for our FREE newsletter coming soon: www.onboardtan...
We've tested and reviewed numerous products live onboard Tangaroa. Check out our recommendations here: kit.co/onboard...
--------------------------------------------
Do you know what BOAT stands for?
BRING ON ANOTHER THOUSAND!
-unknown
--------------------------------------------
Inquiries: crew@onboardtangaroa.com
--------------------------------------------
#lithiumbatterybank #solarpower #lithiumbatteries #Aluminumtrawlerrefit #DIYboatrestoration #Boatenginerepower #DetroitDiesel #Marinedieselrepower #DIYyachtrefit #Trawleryachtrestoration #Boatrefit #Aluminumyachtupgrade #Boatfuelsysteml #DIYlithiumbattery #Marinesolarinstallation #Solarpower #Lithiumbattery #DIYexhaustsystem #Boatexhaust #Yachtelectricalupgrades #Marinedieselengineswap #Aluminumtrawler #fuelsystemrefit #Cummins #Boatsolarenergy #DIYmarineelectronics #Off-gridboating #Marinebatterysystem #BoatDIYprojects #Solarandlithiumsetup #Aluminumtrawlerrepairs #Marineengineoverhaul #Yachtsolarpanels #DIYmarineplumbing #Aluminumyachtrefit #Offgridpowerforboats #CumminsvsDetroit Diesel #Boatengineconversion #Marineelectricalwiring #DIYyachtrenovation #Trawlerrepowerproject #Boatrebuildjourney #Selfsufficientyacht
Programs we Use:
Listen to Our Music: share.epidemic...
Enhance Your Social Media with Smarterqueue: smarterqueue.c...
We hope you enjoyed this video! If you have any comments or questions about our house bank - please don't hesitate to comment. We try to answer every comment. Also - check out our other channel - Exploring the World Onboard Tangaroa! Cheers Janis
on big banks of lithium cells in cold environments they should be in 1. a heated environment or 2. have a heating element to keep the cells above 33 degrees F. that is triggered by the brms. i would recommend a heating element regardless in any cold environment.
Have a look around at some of the bus solar systems and how they rack and expand. No reason in the world that you cannot two racks that go out to the sides. Cheers from a land lubber neighbor up the Gorge.
build your self a light way solar gazeebo for the top deck
Back in the early 1980s I had a job making 51ft aluminium boats which had twin V12 GMs which were virtually bullet proof our battery bank was always in the wheelhouse we also had twin Onan gensets for charging the battery bank's. One of the biggest problems was just keeping the the electrical system free from the boat itself . It's nice to see someone who knows what they are talking about well done.
Thanks! I am steadily working through all of the electrical issues. There was definitely a lot of BAD onboard. We will get there. Thanks for watching!
The bad egg smell is Sulphur 😂
We just said it wrong. Our apologies.
The rotten egg smell from an overcharged lead-acid battery is due to hydrogen sulfide gas (H₂S), which can be produced under certain conditions when the battery is overcharged. Overcharging causes the electrolyte to break down, leading to the release of hydrogen and oxygen gases through electrolysis. Hydrogen gas is flammable and can carry small amounts of hydrogen sulfide, which has the characteristic odor. This is why lead-acid batteries are installed outside or in vented compartments in RVs to prevent gas buildup and mitigate the risk of explosion.
Thanks for sharing. If understand what you're saying correctly starting at 24:00, watching Will Prowse, not charging to full 100% SOC will prevent your cells from balancing properly and actually affect the longevity of your cells. Definitely setting a floor voltage to prevent over discharge through your settings is fine but you definitely need to charge to 100% SOC and hold it there periodically for balancing across your bank. Did I misunderstand that? Thanks again for the watch and sail safe!
Glad you enjoyed it! Will Prowse is not incorrect regarding the need to occasionally balance the cells however that is oversimplifying things. Once balanced, cells will typically take a long time to fall out of balance to the extent that they would reduce your usable capacity. The biggest thing to realize is that the point of bringing the battery to higher SOC% is to get to the point where the cell voltages start to show a disparity. This does not require 100% SOC as you will start to hit the upper knee a fair bit before 100%. My balance points are programmable in my BMS so I can tell the bank when to start balancing. Over the last 3 years I have learned where that voltage disparity starts to happen and have adjusted my balance threshold to that point. An occasional charge to 90% or so keeps the cell balancing in check and keeping the voltage lower increases the cycle life of the batteries as I am not bringing the voltage so high. The last time I did a long term balance where we were plugged into shore power for a while was beginning of august. At the upper knee my high and low cells are still within .02v of each other. Also , having the cells out of balance will not directly hurt your cells. What it will do is decrease your usable amp/hours. If you regularly deep cycle your batteries being out of balance can also cause the high and low cells to be constantly worked closer to their respective limits which will reduce their lifespan. I hope that make sense Thanks for watching!
You do not need to charge 100%, my packs (since 2020) are used with conservative parameters, I charge to 95% and never under 10% SOC. The BMS balance starting somewhere in the 90% SOC. Cells do not need to be balanced to last, abusing them reduce their life. Taking this video as an example, there are 7 cells in parallel and there is no "control" on those cells meaning ...you could inject 400A, let's say 2 cells could be weak or even dead and the remaining cells would have to hold an abnormally high current....the BMS would not know there is a problem. This situation is unlikely to happen ..but still is possible. To avoid that...I would periodically test each cell voltage or better...create 3x24v pack with 3 independent BMS and 8 280Ah cells in serie, this way all cells are controlled and as a bonus you can remove a pack for repair or replacement without cutting the power in boat.
While I do agree that the bank you describe would be very robust in failure detection it also would be a substantial added expense to solve a problem with miniscule probability. For example, the maximum sustained discharge this bank sees is around 350 amps. With 7 cells in parallel you would have to fail 5 cells before current overload on the remaining cells exceeded specs. At that point your registered SOH would be ridiculously low. The BMS I use has the ability to set faults for cell capacity based on individual open cell voltage and average open cell voltage. This would certainly pick up cell failures even in a parallel group. It tells you the cell ID and at that point its easy enough to diagnose an individual cell in the group. To match the capacity of this bank with 280Ah cells you would need at least a 4P and even then you would be lower capacity. An additional 3 BMS units is a pretty significant expense and complexity. While being able to shut down individual groups is an additional ability I can't think of a time that this would have been useful to me over the last 4 years that I have run this bank. I am all about added safety but that would be a little over the top for me. Sorry, this is not meant to insult or offend. We all have our ways of doing things.
Depends upon the details of the actual BMS used. For generic consumer grade stuff, many do only resistance top ballance.
So if it is a sealed unit that you don't know / can't program the BMS. Then yes need to occasionally hit 100% top engage automatic top ballance.
I lived off grid in a 1,800 square foot home for 12 years. I had solar panels and a huge 30kw generator that ran on propane. Lots of propane. I learned this much: don't live that way. You will never get it right, using power company electricity is the only way to go. The problems and down time and battery replacement will bleed you dry. I had an 1,100 gallon propane tank that needed to be filled twice a year at around 2.70 per gallon × 1,100. I was using lead acid batteries and they needed replacement every 3 years as performance dropped from day one of installation. Living in N CA where temps varied from 115 degrees Fahrenheit to 18 degrees Fahrenheit . Hard on batteries. If you want to be a prepper, get ready to live like a dirty hippie. I am planning on buying a live a board boat soon so this video was helpful. A battery bank is potentially a huge, powerful bomb so always know what you're doing for safeties sake. Nice boat.
Unfortunately, living on a boat, grid power is not available much of the time in our case. This setup has been working well for the last four years. Lithium has a much larger cycle life than lead acid and we treat ours pretty conservatively. So far I have noticed no decrease in performance in those four years. We go through some diesel in the winter but most of that goes to heat rather than electricity. It is still much, much less than we would be paying for moorage and power in Victoria. In the summertime the solar completely supplies all of our power demand. Once we get to warmer climates this should be the case for most of the year. We don't live any differently onboard than we did in our house. We have all of the amenities. We haven't turned into dirty hippies just yet. Thanks for the comment!
Blaine
hi there,great vid,lived on a boat for 15 years,got through led acid like anything,then got lithium,saving on diesel paid of the difference in know time,they was fantastic,good luck
Thanks! It certainly has been a nice addition.
An idea. Use bifacial solar panel, and keep 2 row folded on each other. So when you don't use your hamack, you can have your solar panel expanded, and since it bifacial, they will work even when it folded. Also you could have a set going over the water line
That's what I was thinking as well. It's one of the few viable options. I'm not sure that I would put any on the hammock side but folding over the water on the starboard side would work well.
Blaine
that wont work well.
Consider making a storage space for your tender + enclosed in the same space you keep them now, only with a roof that can be raised for access to your toys and lowered for mobility. Consider using the mechanism from an old pop-up camper to make the convertible roof and then mount your solar panels atop it. I don't know if this will work but with your skills it might be adaptable. If it is it will give better protection to your toys like keeping them in a garage when not in use. When lowered it would need to be just tall enough to cover the tender and hoist. Hope this helps! 😁👍
Oh man, I could definitely do something like that but it would take a long time to make it to the top of the priorities list. Our new tender is all aluminum so will be less impervious to sun damage fortunately. Would just have to cover the motor. I am always mulling over options for more panel placement though.
So glad to find this video. I am about to buy these very same batteries to start my solar journey in my house in Thailand. Even though they are very heavy compared to some of their more expensive competition, they are the best bang for the buck. Glad to know that they have served you well.
And when you were putting the battery frame in the new location I thought "Wow, this space was made for this battery bank".
Awesome, thank you.
Oh and how the price has been dropping for these batteries. I can get 4 of these cells, here in Thailand, for $110- including delivery!!
Glad you liked the video! These cells have been discontinued so anything you find will be old stock. That's not to say they wont work but its something to be aware of. We have been very happy with ours.
the good thing also that you didn't mention, the price of LFP since you bought them have considerably lower. It is a lot more affordable now and they have more capacity
It sure is and there are exciting new battery technologies in the works as well.
Just an idea: Are you able to raise your solar panels up on posts, or a framework, to form a canopy? This may not only allow more panel area for expansion, but it also has the potential to give you your deck space back, now sheltered under the solar canopy.
It would certainly work well for the reasons you listed. There are a couple of reasons why we would not go that way though. The first would be that it would raise the weight quite high on the boat. Whether it would make a substantial difference I couldn't say but I assume it would be noticeable. The second is more of an aesthetics thing. A canopy up top would break up the lines of the boat. We love the lines so much that that's a deal breaker for us. Thanks for watching!
Blaine
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial Absolutely, only you can make that call. Thanks for the good discussion!
Thanks for your informative video. We live aboard a 40' steel sailboat for 9 yrs and did convert to solar panels and an all led lighting system. You are way ahead with the lipo battery system. I will look forward to your progress on you new to you motor vessel.
Glad you enjoyed it. There are definitely things I can improve with this bank and I am continuously doing so. It has been quite fun. We have had the boat for about 4 years now so its not quite new to us anymore. Lots has been done in that time. Take care and happy travels!
Blaine
One thing to keep in mind is that when the BMS sees max volts it will normally turn off charging current quite abruptly. If the charge was coming from an alternator, the output voltage can spike high enough to kill any connected loads. A simple way of mitigating the risk would be to leave some lead acid batteries in parallel since they don't have a bms and will remain connected. Doesn't have to be a very large battery.
I have several safeguards in place to prevent a load dump from happening. The first one is simply the charge profile in the alternators. By and far this typically keeps the voltages in check as long as I balance once in a while. Secondly, I have a general purpose output on my bms that shuts down the regulators at a cell voltage lower than my main contactor. This keeps things from going south if my cell balance gets out of whack. Thirdly, the CANBUS feed from my BMS sends charge current limits to the regulators which they obey. I am also installing a 2 second off delay relay on my main contactor. The BMS feed will feed the relay that controls the regulators as well as feed the off-delay relay. This will shut off the regulators 2 seconds before the main contactor trips off. The only way to see a load dump is is the contactor itself were to fail which is extremely rare. I think it should be pretty well covered.
Blaine
Nice. With the size of that battery you probably need a T-Class main battery fuse for safety (even if the BMS is rated for short protection), The ICC for that bank is probably north of 30kA which breakers wouldn't be able to handle on their own if the BMS FETs were to fail during a short.
In terms of temperatures, if moving it wasn't enough you can also insulate the battery compartment (all six sides). Charging and discharging generally won't generate a lot of heat with LiFePO4, so if that still isn't enough a little heater would be easy too... like 30W. Some heating pads or a little PTC heater on a thermostat or something.
Having access to real power makes so many thing convenient, its easy to get hooked on it. There is never enough solar 🙂
-Matt
We run a Littelfuse 1000 amp L15S series fuse. The ICC is closer to 24,000 amps for this bank which is actually just a tad high of the interrupt of our fuse which is the same interrupt as the T-Class. I may switch it for a NH1 style fuse in the future as that is what I use on bigger banks. This was the first bank I ever built so I have learned a few things since. I have a little automotive electric assist heating element which would likely work well here as its a pretty small space. We do love the power though. It has been amazing.
My brain says those hammock posts can be turned into vertical axis wind turbines and still function as hammock posts.
You have my brain going now. We don't like the standard mills as they are too noisy but those axial ones have peaked my interest.
Not a bad idea. I was thinking he could have a set of biracial panels that folds down over the sides out from those posts also.
Bifacials overhanging the outside of the boat would be pretty effective for sure.
that'll slice your cheese
Great job, enjoyed your video. I have Winston cells in my caravan, approaching nine years old, and my capacity loss is under 10%. I could NEVER EVER go back to lead acid.
Cheers from down under. 🇦🇺
Its a pretty amazing technology and they are always improving.
Great job on this video guys!! Lots of really good info in there!
Glad you enjoyed it Brian!
Take a look at bifacial PV panels. They generate power from sunlight on both sides, top and bottom.
You can mount them vertical. Really helpful for catching sun early and late in the day, not just midday like with flat mount. I suggest an open kick space of about a foot, and mount panels long edge parallel to the deck. You will need to spend extra money on aluminum to create frames for this orientation, but it gives you back deck space for walking/gear storage.
I have looked int the bifacial panels. That is what I was hoping to use when I add some. I was thinking more along the lines of slide outs. There would be plenty of reflected light from the water surface to reach the bottom side of the panels. We are very reluctant to mount anything high as we don't want to disturb the lines of the boat.
Great video. There are hundreds of videos on lithium installs on RV's. But yours is the first I've seen on a boat. And your right. With a good sized bank, even if you didn't have solar. Running your generator an hour or two per day to top of is significantly less costly in fuel and wear and tear on it. And silent nights of sleep help too. Have you thought about diesel fired heaters like espar? We use them in big rigs during winter, and they trickle use of electricity and fuel. And are quite small in size. Since obviously nobody told you nomads go south in the winter and north in the summer.😂 Just saying.
Thanks for the compliment! It has certainly been pretty amazing having this bank. Really changed things for us. As for the heat, our next video will be live today and is all about the first step in getting heat aboard (We actually have two heaters on Tangaroa). Stay tuned. Lol, we are trying to get south, just taking the long route 🤣.
Could be wrong but, I think running the diesel gens every day or two would be a good thing, as I have noted the worst thing for an engine is to sit unused.
Thank you....very informative.
Thanks. I'm sure we will revamp it in the next few years and make another follow up video. Thanks for watching. Janis
What an excellent video! This kickass system you built would also be perfect for a home too.
As for the cold battery bank thing, I'm surprised that you haven't decided to install one of those
"Chinese Diesel Heaters"
that are so common today.
Most run on 12V while others will also accept 24V.
They are a super simple design, super easy to install and some of the "newer upgraded" ones now have actual thermostatic temperature control, rather than just low, medium, high settings.
Especially now, with the batteries in that new location, it looks like one of these heaters would easily fit there and vent out to one of the sides.
At some point, I may decide to rebuild my "backup power system".
If I do, I'll also use those types of Lithium battery banks, but have a diesel heater at the ready, because, if I do this again, the system will be installed in our garage (the shed portion) which has no heat.
So long ago, I had my system for emergency backup. Back then, I had to use marine deep cycle batteries. I also kept a desulfator running on them at all times. I got just over 12 years out of them, before the batteries gave up the ghost. LOL Much longer than anticipated.
I really like your design.
Thanks! We do have a diesel heater onboard but the engine room is not heated. The new location should be much better. The forward heated water loop goes right under the new location as well so it would be easy to put a little register in there.
They do make better cells than these now but in a metal case. The case is typically live to cell positive as well with only a thin plastic sheath around the cell. Gives me the creeps but that's just the way the are. They have great power density though!
Blaine
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial I don't know much about those kinds of batteries, but live case? I hope that they have another option where the case is either negative or floating.
Anyway, thanks for showing your setup. Very inspiring.
Another great thing about lithium iron phosphate is that it can be at 50% state of charge and that is actually it's happy place. With lead acid or gel or AGM when the battery is at 50% do you feel like you need to charge it up right away so that it won't damage the battery. Lithium iron phosphate will also accept hi amperage charging even when it's 90% charged so it's easier to charge up quickly.
Absolutely! I do bring it to the top occasionally though to allow the BMS to balance the cells.
This is a really good video about batteries. Sailing Life on Jupiter also uses Lifepo batteries. Not sure what model but they have had theirs for ten years and love them. In fact, they have several other sponsored brands for their 5th wheel camper but like the Lifepo best and are going to keep them for their boat even though they are ten years old and they have new batteries to replace them when they sell their 5th wheel. When I get my aluminum sailboat like they have, I'll be getting Lifepo as well.
They do really work well. There are things I certainly would have done differently with this bank if I were to do it again but it does well. I have future safety upgrades planned. Take care and good luck with finding your dream boat.
Blaine
Cool video! about your batteries freezing, in my DIY battery bank I had silicone heating mats between the cells to warm them up if needed. You could also use engine coolant to warm them much faster but the coolant manifold would be complicated.
I like the silicone heating matt idea. I do have a little ceramic automotive heating element that I have been debating using to heat the space. The new location is fairly small so it wouldn't take much to keep it warm. That being said, the temp outside right now is -1c and the batteries are at 16c so it seems just moving them has helped a lot.
Blaine
Thanks for a great video on your yacht's battery system. You did a super job and your sharing it helps all of us think through our own plans.
Thanks! There are definitely things I would do differently if I were to do it again such as cell level fusing and such but it works for us.
Blaine
Nice boat you have there. You could have insulated the batteries and piped down to circulate warm air from up deck. You probably don't want to get rid of the big motors in the back and replace them with electric ones. You can keep one of them for charging batteries when you sail. You could use the batteries from 20 to 80%, they will last a very long time, just put more batteries on the system if there are too few Watts.😀
They should work well in their new location but I do have a heater planned for them. I would love to do a hybrid setup but unfortunately that is not in the bodget.
Good job buddy, nice setup, good info.
LifePo4 chemistry is a game changer for any off gridding applications but does require a certain level of professionalism to make it great and safe.
I have seen some extensive abuse of these cells being driven through with a crowbar and just smoked and fizzed a little, but after a second blow it burst into flames, I think it was te extra air getting into the cell.
Another example: a poor guy left his brand new 16 cell setup on top charge in parallel with a lab power supply set to 3.6v/cell all in parrallel, something happened to bump the Lab PSU unit up to 4.3v just as he left the garage for several days and when he came back they were all like footballs at 4.3v/cell, I would have cried but he took it well and made a 48v battery out of these cell after deflating them some,and after a year of heavy abuse with loads (heaters, compressors, workshop gear, etc), he got them back to a reasonable size and they still pulled nearly 260Amps, so they are pretty robust.
Thanks! There are certainly things I could do to make this bank safer such as individual cell fusing but it does the trick. I had 96 cells balancing on a lab psu at one point. I cant even imagine how devastated I would be if that same thing happened to thoose cells!
you can get small heating pads that only draw about 50 watts and turn those on when temps get too low
So far this winter the new location has worked out well. We have had plenty of subzero days and the batteries haven't been dropping so low. The heating loop for the hydronic system also runs under this area so I could sneak a little air handler in there as well. Thanks for the tip though! I never know what I am going to do until I do it.
Blaine
Watched the First episode, loved it. Now watching more. :)
Glad you enjoy the channel. Thanks for watching!
Blaine
For the placement of the panels go up build a frame above the deck high enough to support the panels and still have room for your toys under.
We could do that however it would move weight pretty high and I think it would negatively impact the aesthetic of Tangaroa. We do love the lines of the boat currently. Thanks for watching!
I’d like to make a suggestion to you guys …. Build a frame to go about the hammock poles and have it go around the outside of your upper deck you can use aluminum Framing you could easily fit 20 of those 300 watt panels above you… not hard to make and this would give you more then enough excess power.
Thanks for the suggestion! While it would certainly work we are very reluctant to mount anything high as it would change the lines of the boat greatly. One of the things we fell in love with on this boat were her lines and we would hate to lose that.
That is the second time I have know of a battery blowing its top off, happened to me with a whole bank going at the same time - also had battery bubble/warp like the one you showed. The smell cant be ignored!
Its definitely offputting 🤣.
one idea for the cold issue would be to have one of those cheap portable diesel heaters to pop in there and heat them up for a bit, good for emergency heat too and cheap to run
They are in a much warmer place now. I don't foresee having an issue like that again however I did pick up a little electric auxiliary heating element from an SUV that I might blow a fan through and thermostatically control it. Wouldn't take much to maintain above freezing temps in that locker. Thanks for watching!
I just had your channel put on my page and I watched your first (I think) video. It's nice to see two knowledgeable mariner's buying this boat. I owned a boat repair shop and am more of a "below deck" guy and like engine room and systems being checked and fixed. I subscribed and am looking forward to your progress.I really enjoy seeing your approach to problems and your attitude when you find something needs attention. And yeah, I would have fixed things also while waiting for the trial run.Have you thought of elevating the solar panels about 6-7 feet above the deck. This would give access to the whole deck and provide shade for the deck and also have open area for sunning. Of course being an engineer you would need to consult a marine surveyor to check the center of gravity etc. Just a thought. There are now flexible panels that may be a consideration for weight. I am not up on the latest tech but I know there are great new products. I am a retired firefighter and I would recommend a CO 2 automatic (smaller than eng room) for the battery pack to give enough time to evacuate if there is a fire. There are new dry chemical lithium systems but you would have to see what is legal in Canada.
Glad you found us! I definitely don't shy away from much. Interior woodwork is kind of my kryptonite. Raising the solar panels for access would definitely help but it would alter the lines of the boat a bit too much for out taste. While we are function over fashion that would be a bit of a push for us. Those new flexible panels seem good but I would have to wait for the price point to come down. At the moment they are outrageously priced per kw, at least for the higher output per sq/ft models. Thanks for the info on the fire supression. This is one big thing on my list and is rapidly reaching the top.
Schöner Batterie Speicher sieht gut aus 🤗👍
Thanks!
Do the extra solar panels hang over the side of the deck like a shade on a hinged setup, lift them and put a pole under them to hold them up.
I'm thinking of a slider system. That way I don't have to lift anything.
I like your new channel! Those dreaming of living their lives aboard a yacht should pay close attention to these stories to understand the skill sets necessary to maintain and upgrade the myriad of systems of modern (and even not so modern) boats. P.S. Your other channel is really enjoyable as well. Safe travels!
Thanks David! We appreciate the input. It definitely takes a lot of work to keep these older boats maintained. It saddens me to see the condition of many of the boats at anchor in many places that have just been left to rot away.
22:34 - I do not know about the Calb Cells but the EVE LFP need compression to avoid issues due to the cell expansion. Without the amount of cycles will be lower. We had calb cells and winston cells before since 2013 but both arrived in compressed packs and had been used this way for now over 3000 cycles in 10 years and still at 89% capacity.
Some do recommend compression for sure. Its usually more of an issue if the pack is being heavily loaded or charged frequently to the upper thresholds. These have been going for 4 years and show no signs of swelling but we are pretty easy on them. I spoke with the US supplier for CALB last year when I was building another bank and he said he did not feel compression was necessary in that application so who knows. Thanks for watching!
I made a 43 kWh LFP battery 2 years ago by 16S X 3P of 280 Ah cells. Max. charge/discharge = 220A which has been utilized daily since it was made. I have not compressed my cells as the current vs. capacity is very low. I visually inspect the pack ever so often and there's absolutely 0 expansion or sign of it.
Build a solar sun shade so like a patio roof
That would be very effective but it would also spoil the lines of the boat. We are trying to not get too excessive with function over fashion.
Blaine
Have put any thought into wind? Being on the water you wouldn't even need to get them very high of the boat probably just enough to not be hit by the blades. It won't replace solar, but could help out particularly in the winter when solar is lacking.
I have debated it in the past. In our current location we just don't get wind consistently. This may be a possibility when we get to other areas that suit wind generation though.
Blaine
Your knowledge is amazing im trying to suck it all in
We learn as we go along. Blaine spends almost every night doing research and reading manuals. It helps that we are passionate about refitting Tangaroa.
I've installed about 40 solar systems on mountain tops. The batteries and panels have come along way.
They sure have! The output of the panels are coming up on double what they where when I did my setup. Mind you, they are a bit larger too. The cells now are 50% higher capacity in a smaller package. One of the things I do not like though is that the new metal case batteries are live to cell positive on the case At least the ones I have dealt with). Not sure what the thought process was there but that terrifies me. I would take less capacity in a plastic case any day.
Blaine
When you next work on the batteries it would be a great idea to wire the contactor via a smoke detector that has a relay. That way if a problem does happen any smoke will trip the sensor in the battery box, drop the contactor supply and will not only be safer but could save a lot of money or damage.
Great recommendation! Easy to implement as well. Thanks!
@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial I hope it helps. I have batteries protected with a normaly closed loop through the smoke alarm and a few thermal fuses. I find it reassuring to have a very simple analog circuit as backup. I have had a BMS lock up and fail to protect a pack so I added this loop via 2 telecom relays so both have to de-energise to break the contactor coil supply. Telco relays are rated to millions of operations and are very reliable. I hope you find the idea helpfull 👍
I do indeed! Thanks!
Consider using the bigger commercial Canadian Solar bifacial panels in an area of the boat that requires shade.
I have been keeping an eye on those. I do like the capacity of them for sure!
Blaine
Mabey add a wind mill / turbine to help on the non sun days I've seen a few other channels have one. If you was on a river mabey a water wheel one
That's an idea. Solar seems to provide more energy so Blaine is going to install more panels. Once we get south of the 49th parallel or north where there is more sun then here we should have no issues.
Dude you reply to everyone!!! Just got another sub
I try my best to every day but sometimes its a couple of days. Welcome aboard!
Blaine
I’m planing on doing a huge box truck build with around 28 300ah 3.2v from china.
I think if you did a comprehensive video on how you managed to keep the batteries safe you would get a lot of views. Like how you protect from surge and things like that
I will see what we can do. Good luck with you build!
Great videos. Here in Australia, lithium battery banks now have to be sealed from the living area in RV's and marine vessels and vented outside. Due to our catamaran design it is a show stopper for upgrading to lithium in our catamaran. I am surprised Canada hasn't followed suit. I am very envious of having so much relatively light weight power on board.
It's never a bad idea to have them in a sealed box. Same goes for lead acid. I will likely eventually build a metal enclosure for these and vent them up through the stack. That's a future project though. I can't imagine any other battery these days. We have become so spoiled with the capacity of the lithium setup. With a good solar setup it's the best for cruising.
You can get lifepo4 packs that are sealed in their own metal casing with vent pipes! 😊
Nice video, I played around with some batteries like AA. What i noticed is that when in series total voltage will go to 0 but only have of the batteries are dead. If there would be a switching method that can remove low voltage batteries and use full batteries then charge all batteries in parallel i believe it would make a difference.
I'm sure there are ways you could do that however the switching hardware would have to be substantial due to the current capability of these cells. Typically all BMS systems do offer some sort of cell balancing whether it be passive or active. Thanks for watching!
Nice build. I have done something similar on a smaller scale for a sail boat. For cells I am using 100ah Frey (sometimes re-marketed as "Fortune" cells) in a 4P4S configuration. The Frey are big and heavy but have beefy M10 terminals and their own racking system which makes tie down easy. I also use a BMS managed, mechanical contactor (BlueSea 7713) for the load bus (only) and direct alternator charging from a Balmar regulator (which the BMS also manages). System has been doing well for a few years now.... I am also in the PNW
Right on! Sounds like a well thought out build. The m10 terminals are great. That is one of the gripes I have with the newer batteries. It seems to be all m6 stuff and super short if they are studs. I have some big alternators going in soon running off of wakespeed regulators. Looking forward to playing with those! Whereabouts are you? We are in Brentwood Bay.
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial The Frey terminals and the "module" hold-down system (see their web site) was the big selling point on the Frey cells. On the downside, 100 ah cells is small and I would rather not have to put 4 is parallel in case one had an internal short. Wakespeed seems like the gold standard for a regulator. The Balmar works well (for less $) will with a simple on/off relay for HVC = but no can-bus of course, which seems to be the future. Im in Richmond.
Right on. We just spent 3 months at the Steveston Harbour authority doing a repower. Nothing wrong with the Balmar Regs. They were the top dog for years. I have a pair for my 12v engine run alternators.
You should have gone with Gel batteries. We have an off grid solar Cabin in Alaska on the Kenai Península. We used Gel batteries and we have no problem with below freezing days.
We rarely drop below freezing here and the new location won't be an issue even if it drops considerably below. I am not expecting any further issues like that. Thanks for watching!
Great explanation, thanks.
One thing with lithium is that their prices have fallen dramatically this year.
I bought cells for my electric boat about year ago. The price was something around 120€/kwh.
Now I checked that you can have cells down to 72€/kwh. Four years ago it was around 360€/kwh!
So there’s not single reason anymore to even consider anything else than lifepo!
EDIT: Typo with the price
That's wild! So much less.
Blaine
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial Typo with the price. :P
We use a rv gray water heat mat under our 48v lifepo4 will auto heat to keep them charging
Great suggestion. Thanks!
Can you build some sort of plexiglass or tempered glass decking overtop of the solar panels? Allow you to walk over top of them.
I'm not sure if the plexiglass would be strong enough to spread the load well. I wouldn't be able to add a support frame either due to shading. Would have to be pretty thick plexi I imagine but could potentially work.
Blaine
Have you considered a wind turbine, that could be raised like a sail mast when anchored, and lowered when sailing, understand Victoria could be quite windy as it’s near the coast
I have started to look at some recently. The big thing is noise. The new axial style generators look appealing. That being said we don't actually get much sustained windy conditions. Mostly just during winter storms that pass through occasionally.
I'm new. I'd go south for the winter. 😉😊
That is always a good option!
Blaine
Your work is very neat so I congratulate you on that. Interestingly that installation would not be legal in the UK or Europe because there are rules which require batteries to be in a battery container and strapped down. I suspect the regulation about the container is to capture acid if batteries leak and so is probably out of date but it is still part of the regulations. Strapping them down is however sensible.
LifePo4 have an electrolyte that is really non-flammable but the main risk is not the batteries catching fire it is the wiring,. When switching to Lithium it is really important to upgrade the wiring to carry the current because Lithium can deliver and accept far higher currents than lead acid and so there have been many fires caused by undersized cables. That main red cable you were holding is a lot smaller than the cables fitted to my boat and I only have 14.4kwh of lithium fitted.
Lastly I would consider re-locating that master off switch outside the battery storage area. If there was a fire for any reason you would not want to open that box and let oxygen in to have to disconnect the batteries.
Thanks! On my newer builds I do put the cells in metal enclosures to contain the cells. Definitely makes for a more comforting install. This bank sadly is not quite finished. The cables are only temporary as I will be using solid busbar material all the way to the main busbars. As is sits the BMS is set to disallow any amperage exceeding cable capacity even though this cable is adequately sized to support the continuous loads it would see in this setup. That is a good point on the master switch. I will be building a partition toward the end of the bank on the positive side. It would be easy enough to mount it on the outside of that. The cells will also eventually be strapped down. Just haven't reached that stage yet. All good points! Thanks for the input.
Solo Island hopper, mine will be ~45ft ex commercial ali fishing boat, small wheelhouse/cabin, very large outdoor living rear deck with solar roof on frame, no ceiling, catwalk down center for cleaning, hinged frame panels off side to enclose area when required.
For inverter I got new PowMr 10.2kW AIl-in-One hybrid off ebay for $800 aud. Could buy 5 for less than victron.
Battery is Gobel Power 51.2V 280Ah 15kWh Server Rack Battery for $4.5K aud
That sounds like a great setup. I love the hinged solar panel Idea as well. The PowMr inverters look like good units and 10.2 kW is plenty hefty. The server rack batteries make life a lot easier as well. I went with the Victron just because it all integrates well with the entire system as well as the NMEA2000 network and that's what I was after.
Blaine
It appears there's no cell compression/restriction. Is that correct? If so, have you noticed any physical change in cell dimensions during the four years of service?
You are correct. I have noticed no dimensional changes over the years. I just changed location of the bank this year and everything fit as it had 4 years ago. That being said, my charge profiles and usage are very conservative.
Blaine
Of course now that you've put this video up and it's 4 years later there has been significant changes. For instance, I have a diesel motorcoach that I just converted the house battery system to lithium. I have just under 1000 watts of solar power, and at the moment a 300 Ah battery that was only $1000. It replaced six lead acid batteries that one battery weighed more than one lithium battery so there is significant weight savings. And of course I plan to add some more lithium batteries this year yet, along with potential higher wattage rated solar panels. Good show though.
I try not to let advances in technology bother me. When these batteries are done I can get some fancy new ones! It is wild to see how fast its advancing though. Glad you enjoy the channel!
Have you thought of diesel heaters especially heating the battery compartment
We have a couple of diesel heaters onboard and in the new location the hydronic lines run right under the battery bank. It would be quite easy at this point to put a heat register in the battery compartment. I am tempted to do that when I get the forward loop reworked.
Blaine
Loved the video by the way... But i couldn't help but notice the name Tangaroa. In my culture, that the name of the god of the sea.
Glad you enjoyed the video! Janis and I spent a lot of time working in New Zealand and other parts of the South Pacific. It holds a very special place in our hearts. The name was our way to pay homage to the area and that time in our lives. Thanks for watching!
Blaine
A small wind generator seems to bring a very helpful trickle of power to offset lights etc
We actually don't get substantial winds consistently up here. It would spend most of its time just hanging out. If we were somewhere down in the tradewinds it would be much more appealing for sure. Thanks for watching!
Building your own is definitely the way to go especially now with lifepo4 batteries being as cheap as they are when I built the system for my house, I doubled my weekly use so if the sun just disappeared for a week, I wouldn’t even have to worry about it in after that I’ve got some generators that’ll kick in on their own is the best choice I’ve made I even avoided putting panels on my roof in the ground a raise so even in the winter, I can go out there and just wipe the snow off
It has been pretty amazing for sure. We sure love our setup!
lithium batteries on a boat is madness. !
Madness I tell you, Madness!
Individual solar cells would allow you to cover smaller surfaces that wouldn't fit a normal panel.
A bifacial installed like a flag off the back or hinged somewhere on the boat where it can be moved out of the way or against a wall?
I am definitely looking into some slide out bifacial panels. Those are very appealing.
Blaine
Great video, enjoyed geeking out while I ate my takeaway :). Just one question regarding the flat SOC curve from 20-80...... I was wondering if one way to control for Drift, would be to profile your power use over time and use it to tune a usage monitor, which when paired up with your BMS reading, could give you a more contextual idea of where your charge might truly be sitting? Whether or not such a thing is necessary, I have no idea..... heck I can barely change the batteries in my TV remote..... but it was just a thought that occurred to me as I watched. Best of luck for the future :)
Glad you are enjoying the content! I can't really say if that idea would work or not. I know the BMS I use has a learning feature. It does seem to keep it fairly close these days. Thanks for watching!
So the Lead Acid you have a limited depth of discharge. I think it is 50% so you would have to basically double the capacity to have the same usable capacity.
I can't quote the exact usable DOD of lead acid as they vary a bit but its more or less around there. The extra capacity of the Lithiums is pretty amazing.
I’m in the research phase of adding lithium to my boat. I was wondering if you would bring willing to spend a little time via video call to help with a few questions that I have?
Can you reach out to us on our email? Crew at onboardtangaroa dot com? Thanks. Blaine and Janis
Also would it not be a good idea to have a little heater under the seat and a 12 volt battery that kicks in if the temperature drops too much.?
I have some plans to do just that!
For the record, your cells can’t do 10C. No lifepo4 cells can do a C rate anywhere near that high. I looked up your cells, and like most lifepo4 cells, they have a constant charge/discharge rate of 1C. The manufacturer states they can do 3C for 30 seconds. However, the 1C is pretty much normal for all lifepo4 cells, as the chemistry largely dictates the C rate, not the cell type.
Great content and I subscribed to see what else you all have done!
I don't disagree however the spec sheet from CALB does state a 10 second discharge rate of 10c for the lower ah cells and a straight 1000 amp 10 second rate for all cells above 130ah. Not quite 10c but still 7000 amps worth. I pray there is never a situation where they discharge 1/4 of that though. Glad you enjoy the channel!
FYI - your lithium bank install is not ABYC compliant - it requires no more than 20k AIC per fused section - you would need to put in a second t-fuse - I just had to do that on a bank
That would be the first I heard of that ABYC requirement. Im pretty sure that is based on the fact that most "marine" fuses dont go any higher than a 20k interrupt rating. I could understand if the fuse was only rated for 20k interrupt and you had more that it would be an issue but fuses with an acceptable interrupt are available. For example, on larger banks I use a fuse with a 200k AIC. Sadly ABYC is way behind the times with lithium stuff. Unfortunately insurance agencies that insure old boats like this are less and less available anyway. Soon ABYC will be irrelevant for older boats as you wont be able to get insurance anyhow.
the 20k AIC is written into the standard as an explicit number vs get a fuse that meets your AIC manufacturer’s requirements. That being said - being in a marina requires you to have insurance - so yes getting coverage for accidental issues might be harder but liability will still force you to get insurance & deal w/ ABYC requirements.
That being said - it’s not hard for someone to add in busbars and t-fuses to divide a bank.
Do you have a reference to that standard? I can't seem to find it. I am sure that standard will change eventually once they realize it makes no sense. It is true that its not hard to add busbars to divide a bank but I should not have to if specifications match the bank I am building. Choosing an arbitrary number that so happens to match the largest commonly available marine fuse seems a bit ridiculous and as far as I know has no technical reasoning. Marinas do require insurance but liability only typically and liability insurance is much easier to attain. For the record, we do have insurance.....currently. That being said, the fact that some marinas require it has no bearing on the insurers being willing to supply it. Insurance underwriters are getting to the point that they have no interest in older boats regardless of their condition or ABYC compliance. We are going through this now. As soon as they hear the age of the boat they decline without even having any other details.
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial I'm ABYC electrical certified and had an email thread with Mike Bonicker (he's the lead technical instructor) about this - here's the reg:
11.10.1.2.3 For batteries or battery banks with a CCA rating greater than 2200 CCA or 500 amp hours, battery overcurrent protection shall have a minimum ampere interrupting capacity (AIC) rating as follows:
11.10.1.2.3.1 at least as great as the battery manufacturer’s short circuit rating, or
11.10.1.2.3.2 20 kA at 125 VDC or higher, if a battery manufacturer’s short circuit rating exceeds 10 kA.
NOTE: For batteries in series/parallel configurations the short circuit current of the battery bank is calculated by adding the short circuit current values of the batteries connected in parallel, and the short circuit rating of the batteries connected in series is not added for this calculation (e.g., six 6 VDC batteries are connected in series/parallel to create 12 VDC battery bank; if short circuit rating of a single battery equals 2400 A, the total calculated short circuit rating of the battery bank equals 7200 A).
11.10.1.2.4 Fuses, when used as main battery overcurrent protection, shall meet the ampere interrupting capacity (AIC) rating as stated in TABLE 3B.
Thanks! Super hard to find that stuff. I am not interpreting that as requiring no larger than a 20k fuse. I read it as no smaller than a 20k fuse but anything larger is allowed. It is true that I do need a higher AIC fuse though.
Sucks you had to move all of those but man they do have a ton of storage. Well worth even moved twice.
I didn't mind so much I never really did like the original location as it was too far from the main electrical distribution. The new location plants them right next to everything.
Blaine
It's not a question but more a suggestion. Look at how the genius Everlanders (another youtube channel) made some motorized extender panels. I can imagine that when you have the ability, you would appreciate the ability to add solar capacity.
Oh, that's definitely on our list! I will check out the channel. Thanks!
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial Love the work you do, your time and effort shows. One day my wife and I will be doing a very simular setup.
Thanks! We wish you guys the best. It is a pretty amazing lifestyle.
In this kind of pack, cells in parallel on which you got no control, I would keep a conservative charge/discharge power and high/low voltage, that would be something like
250A, and 24-27.4V range. Of course a temperature controlled charge, which the BMS should already include (no charge under 5°C, or at a very low rate, discharge is not a problem).
Thank you.
Have you considered a Tesla battery pack like Sailing Dauntless? I am considering them when I change my diesel out for electric on Colvic Quest. You have a stunning boat. Love it
I did look into a few different automotive based batteries and they do offer great packaging and power density however but at that time they were NCA batteries which were definitely more volatile than the LiFePo cells. Tesla didn't start using lifepo4 until mid 2020 I think which was after I purchased these cells. If I had to do it again with todays technology there is lots I would do differently. Thanks for the compliment! We do love the boat for sure.
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrialI like raw cells, I built my own bank for home battery backup. But if I was to do it again or your situation, I think I'd go with server rack batteries. They're not that far off of raw cell anymore. And the nice thing about those if one cell or BMS has some kind of catastrophic damage they each have their own fuse and breaker in their metal enclosure and a lot of them now have extinguishers built in. Plus your whole bank wouldn't go down, just one rack battery. In your setup if one cell does go bad the whole thing does go down. You do lose a little space efficiency and add some weight for the casing with server rack batteries though.
And I do like victron stuff but man it's hard to beat the EG4 6000 right now. Two of them in parallel gives you lots of power and redundant split phase 240V and solar charge capability. And just the compactness of having everything in one unit is pretty nice.
But you've got a pretty nice setup it's so hard to beat LFP for stationary storage. I'm also hoping sodium ion technology improves in the next handful of years. If it can get power density parity with LFP that would be so awesome. Mostly because it's even safer and has a much more linear voltage charge curve. And likely cheaper when economy of scale kicks in.
I try not to tease myself with with what I could have now vs then. I'm am also keeping an eye on the sodium ion stuff. It looks very promising. Maybe by the time my bank needs replacing they will have something readily available.
Stumbled across this channel and mighty glad i did. After 3 videos, I'm subscribed. I'm looking forward to more of your content. Great content and presentation. 🇦🇺🦘😀
Glad you enjoy the videos! Hope we can keep you entertained. Tons of video to come.
Blaine
looks like they added the stern deck at a later date, id move the running gear back at least 8 ft, will handle a lot better, also the rudder is to far forward, other than that it looks like a nice house
It was indeed extended some time in the 80's. We definitely wont be moving props and shafts as that would be a ridiculously extensive project with minimal rewards. I have been thinking of rudder options though. May end up adding a single large rudder at the rear for assist. Maneuverability is not as bad as you would think though with the rudders so far forward. Thanks for watching!
Blaine
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial right now my tug is out of the water in seattle, getting a new paint and bottom job, well maybe put on 2 large rear rudders a stern thruster would be a big help.i tun my 120 ft tug by myself always have, lots of cameras in the engine room, all color cameras, with zoom, then to the boat house when it is done and spring head to italy,
Right on! Sounds like a very nice vessel. A 120ft tug is no joke!
Well done!
Thanks!
Did it affect the handling of the boat by moving the batteries higher and changing the center of gravity?
Haven't really noticed any adverse affects. The bank weight is a fair bit less than lead though. The boat not being very tall helps as well. She is pretty inherently stable.
Blaine
Almost all new liveaboards have lithium banks. They make you put them in a steel or aluminum box in Australia and NZ.
Someone else told me that recently about Australian Regs. I had always planned to put them in a box, just haven't got to that yet. Maybe one day when I have nothing to do.......🤣.
Your sure its applicable for LFP & not just Li-Ion cells? Data sheet on my 280 Ah LFP cells tells they can't burn and will only release the moisture as steam if penetrated by ex. a nail/overcharged/short circuited, even heat will just have the cells boil of with no fire.
@@ChipMIKAustralia is the Nanny Country & the government always goes safety first even if it it totally illogical & insane.
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrialYeah in Australia now, we must have a sealed system vented to the outside due to toxic gasses produced in the rare event of a failure.
You can definitely walk on rigid panels.
We hesitate to do so, especially as there is a gap under them. We will just let the seagulls do the walking.
Have you thought of adding a small wind turbine? 2 x 150 W units? I know they say you can get 300 W or 400 W units but they might be too big and I have yet to find one that is consistently above 200 W.
Janis grew up off grid in northern Ontario and had a wind generator. Her family found that solar provides more power and the wind generator was loud. We will be adding more panels and heading to places north with more sun then eventually south. Thanks for the idea.
don't forget that every 4 battery backs need a bms system for cold end heat en overload en if I can give you a tip, buy DC alternators you can do 2 per engine
CALB has no such restrictions on their cell configuration. This configuration fits within the specs of both battery manufacturer and BMS manufacturer. Our current setup uses a permanent magnet DC generator head on a diesel engine. That video will be launching soon. We also have large dc alternators going on the main engines but that's in a future video. Thanks for watching!
Congrats on your new old boats
Thanks!
DIY EV use some form of electrical heating plate under the batteries to help maintain temperature. It would need temperature monitoring of all 56 cells to ensure the cells temperature doesn't go below or above the ranges for your cells
I think they will be good in the new location but I do have an electric auxiliary heater from an SUV that I may end up using. They just need to be maintained above freezing. While my BMS does not have enough thermocouples for every individual cell I do have them spread out enough to get a general bank temperature. The BMS I use can control both a fan as well as a heater based on cell temp. If I box everything in it should take minimal energy to keep things just above freezing. I'm not worried about warming them up more for extra capacity as we have plenty for our needs. By the time I get around to it though we will likely be out of cold climates 😆.
Love the video… very impressed with your knowledge and ability around the batteries.
how are you covering the top of the battery bank… what would happen if someone (not you) tossed something (perhaps metal) under the seat and crossed connected between batteries?
Something huge happened that the seat cushion fell off and debris fell on top of the batteries?
Thanks! I will have a cover over it for sure. There is already a cover underneath the seat cushion but I will put something just above the batteries just to be safe. I just haven't got to that point yet.
Blaine
Surely putting the invertor(s) in with the batteries would deal with 0 degrees charge cut off ?
The inverters won't fit in the new location but it should stay warm enough now for the bank anyway.
Blaine
Could you build a rack overhead for the panels, so all the stuff you store and the hammocks and stuff are under it?
Thatbis a good idea. It may ruin the lines of the boat. Right now there is enough room under them to store the windsurfer masts...fish net...and hammocks rolled up.
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial A giant rack of solar panels looks pretty good to me. You won't even need to run your generator during the winter time to top off your batteries if you had more solar. And it'll protect your stuff up there from sun damage.
That is a fair point.
By water maker I assume you mean your RO unit? Can you tell me what type you are using and how much can it purify?
Yes indeed. Our unit was made by a company called Watermakers Inc. out of Ft Lauderdale. I have modified it a fair bit though. It produces 30 gph. Thanks for watching!
Blaine
Spot on
Thanks! Definitely lots of room for improvement but its worked for us.
are those aluminum bus bars ?..if so they may get hot when oxidation occurs
They are and they do. The trick is to keep them from oxidizing. These are in a dry area and easily monitored. One of the terminals on most cells are aluminum as well. Thanks for watching!
with the solar panels on the roof , why don't you put 3 or 4 panels on hinges on both sides that can fold down or have them up ......... just an idea where you can still walk around as you normally do
I have debated something like this over the years. Maybe some slide out system?
Another video down in the weeds of details on your battery bank would be great. At the pivoting point on 50’ Viking and lots of battery banks all over the place. 22 lead acid batteries to be exact across 6 banks. How did ?you manage the boats 12v system with a 24V bank?
We will see what we can do. For our 12v system we use both a dc-dc converter and a single 8D battery. It has worked well over the years. We used the 100 amp victron DC-DC converter. Good luck with your system!
Year's ago I ordered a bunch of 18650 cells from China and none the cells capacities matched the given rating. I ended up cutting them all open and they had a variety of different smaller lithium cells inside of the 18650 housing.
Wild! You definitely have to be careful with sourcing form overseas. We have been fairly luck with all of our cell orders and they have performed well.
I wonder if you could use solar panels over the rear deck? It'd also give shading.
A point, your inverters are 3000VA or 2400W each.
Your system compared to my RV.
I have (2) EG4 6000xp hybrid invertors. They are 240Vac split phase 25a each for a combined 240Vac 50a service. Each 6000xp has an ac input, generator input, (2) 4000w MPPT solar charge controllers. There is a PV shutoff switch and a breaker for ac input, gen input, ac output and battery. Remote start/stop of a generator if it supports it, based on battery voltage or SoC. The inverters are EMP certified.
Up to (16) 6000xp's can be paralleled. Using sets of 3 can be used for 3 phase operation. You can have all 6000xp's share a battery bank or have a seperate battery bank for each one. A max sized system would be 240Vac 400a ( 96000 watts) and 330Kwh of batteries and 128000 watts of solar.
(6) EG4 LL-S 48v 100ah batteries rated at 5120wh each. My total rated storage is over 31Kwh. In reality full charge is 54v so 32.4Kwh. Each battery has a built in breaker, LCD screen and buttons to monitor/configure the battery, battery parallel comms for up to 64 batteries, CANBus comms to the inverter.
Each battery has TWO fire suppressors and the batteries and inverters support RSD (Rapid Shutdown). RSD is a remote wired switch (think big red button) that will rapidly and safely shutdown the inverters and batteries. A HUGE safety feature.
EG4 has a 12k and 16k model that support grid tie. They also have 48v 240ah outdoor rated batteries (doubt ocean rated).
Sounds like a nice system. Unfortunately the EG inverters were not available 4 years ago when I build this system (at least as far as I know). They are also 48v which I did not want as its not a native system on this boat. With a 24v bank I get redundancy for engine start banks and I can use the main house bank to feed marine electronics without conversion. This setup works perfectly for us. I do like the fire suppressor idea.
@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial You should like the RSD.
You could have RSD switches located in various places on the boat. If there is a fire, you would be able to safely shut down the inverters and batteries from a safe location. An RSD switch on the rear deck would allow fire fighters to shutdown the system, potentially from dock.
I don't know how many amps at 24v you need to start engines and to power your marine electronics. I'd guess a 24v 400ah battery bank would be more than enough.
So you'd have a 48v main battery bank that powers the inverters and the solar panels are connected to and then a small 24v battery bank charged from the 48v batteries with dc-dc charger(s). You could keep any 24v to 12v dc-dc convertors you already have to power 12v loads.
Will definitely look into the RSD setup. As for the main bank voltage its mainly about redundancy. We do already have start banks but in case of a failure its always nice to have a big old lithium bank to help out. Currently I have several DC-DC chargers and converters doing various duties around the boat for the 12v stuff as well as charging the engine start batts. I don't think we will be changing anything for a very long time.
@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial I wouldn't expect you to change anything for several years. By then who knows, you maybe looking at 96v main bank and inverters
You never know what the future holds!
Interesting u done compress the cells. I have always said any prismatic cells should be compressed
I initially built the framework to compress them but with the usage they see in this configuration the expansion risk is very small. I have built other banks like this and have spoken with a rep from CALB and was told he didn't feel compression was necessary in this application. So far I have seen no bulging and this bank is 4 years old at this point.
Make a roof out of solar panels on the lower deck if possible
We are trying to disturb the natural lines of the boat as little as possible. I think we will be good if I can squeak 3 more up top.
Blaine
Id keep those batteries down in the engine room and solve the problem down there saves all this work and weight being up high will definitely be noticed in ocean condition's
The engine room just isn't a good location. There will be issues with being too hot in the southern climates and too cold in the northern climates. It is also a more damp location. Where they are now solves all of those issues. Being they are Lithium the weight shift is minimal on the boat. Tangaroa is naturally stable as she is not a tall boat. We haven't noticed any negative aspects of moving the bank.
So cold climate. Why no heater blanket. ?
It typically doesn't get incredibly cold here in victoria and we live onboard so there is always some heat going. That year was just considerably colder than the norm. The batteries didn't actually drop completely below freezing, the BMS had just massively reduced charge current limit as it was interpolating between 2 data points. It was close though. The new location should keep them well above freezing and I am also working on a thermostatically controlled heater for them.
@@OnboardTangaroaSeatrial I know they have professional solutions for this battery heating issue.
You could consider a quick diy cheap solutions like 12v pet blankets or aquarium heating pads, they dont use much power to run and could be used as required easily without needing to start the motor.
Nice vid, boat and setup. Cheers.
Thanks! I have some bits and pieces of things kicking around to put together a heater setup. They are also in a fairly small area so keeping them warm should be easy. Take care!
Enjoyed the video. Nothing beats good old fossil fuels.
Glad you enjoyed it! I try to get by with using as little fuel as possible but its definitely always there to help out.
Blaine