But there was a person using one glove for his right hand in S&B fight fir the 3rd place (Havard Eidheim): ua-cam.com/video/5Mj6aiYlT-Y/v-deo.htmlm36s Modified, though, with additional inside of the wrist protection. It is too dangerously uncovered in RD gloves.
Some members of my club bought Red Dragon gloves for nylon longsword practice about five or six months ago and they're pretty much fallng apart at the seams at this point. About SPES Heavies, in the last meetup, a guy got his finger smashed pretty badly through them with steel, he even lost a small portion of bone.mass from the fingertip. He wasn't wearing finger protectors inside the glove, though.
My personal recommendation for sparring with steel feders is the Polish sparring glove. Fantastic protection all around and you can get a long cuff for extra wrist and forearm protection. It is a bit heavy but I find that it still has good mobility and it's easier to switch to a thumb grip or even finger the guard than other hard shell gloves I've tried.
I do for sparring (Not drilling) Ever since an undercut destroyed my ring finger! I don't blame the gloves really, the finger tip protectors just really stop the obvious injuries and then it just becomes accidental ones that break through. I think once they're broken it they're great.
First, you're an amazing salesman. Excellent sales pitch. I need Nick Thomas's opinions on this too. Second, Red Dragon gloves have been targeting the wrong audience. If what you're saying is true, they should rebrand themselves as Sabre gloves or some description of being the best sabre gloves available
Nick Thomas here. I wouldn't say they are targeting the wrong audience at all. They are marketed as a cheap and cheerful glove that is also light and very versatile. We recommend them to all of our students for sparring with synthetics, and light contact with steel. They are also well suited to higher contact sparring with some steel weapons like bowl hilt sabres and sidesword. Their low price, weight, and medium level protection make them the most versatile HEMA glove currently available. I use them for steel sabre with stirrup hilts too. Though I wouldn't generally recommend this, its just that a better option doesn't currently exist.
The "Vader Gloves"(Kevlar Gloves) exist as well. They are lighter than Red Dragon gloves and does not offer overly much protection, but are more protective than for example a fencing glove and gives almost perfect dexterity. It's what I use for Rapier.
Yes, I agree. I had broken finger wearing a Red Dragon glove doing steel sabre back in January. Therefore, I wouldn't recommend them for steel sparring at all. There is an unarmored bit around the little finger which you wouldn't notice until someone whacks you right there. I'd, however, debate your statement around the 5 finger 'Polish Sparring Gloves'. I obtained the new model from Barbara, and that fits in nicely with my Regenyei sabre hilt.
I got injured in them sparring with leather dussacks over maybe 15 minutes of sparring. My point being, always use the fingertip covers and upgrade as soon as you can since the likelihood of getting injured is quite high if the weapon guard isn't very good.
HOW?! :-O I honestly cannot see how a leather dussack could injure someone wearing these. And upgrade to what? For sabre and sidesword there are no other gloves that fit in their hilts.
Upgrade for arming swords and such, I don't know the brand but the leather dussack was a bigger part of the problem - there is a harder core to it but the guard isn't hard in the inside, it buckles and I got hit on my thumb x)
Yeah the PH Dussack V1 aren't the best. Their V2 was a lot better but too close to a real trainer impact wise for most people. Most doing dussack just want to play not train :/
just feels weird we use pretty heavy dussacks with wooden cores (i think might be fiberglass) and I have always used lighter gloves than these and never had an injury. Unless you see a bruised finger as an injury. I've aslo used these (with spes fingertip protectors) for longsword and haven't had any pain (though we're generally careful for hand hits)
I love my Red Dragon gloves. Perfect fit, dulls blows effectively and have lasted me nearly a year. I also have the SPES mittens but they're too restricting with the bracers and jacket. Problem is I've had a couple purple knuckles from spars and a semi-exposed wrist being put in agony by Nick Thomas' girlfriend, but they're risks of the sport, nothing I'm concerned about. So far, I've had no broken components with them and my other bits of gear.
5:06 That IS a whole other discussion! I'd love a video on (uh-oh, controversial term) chivalry in HEMA. Calling shots etc. In practice it can only benefit both practitioners, but I get a vague feeling of 'honour' or 'code' from the whole HEMA thing. Do you feel this is the case?
The problem is that "HEMA" isn't just one thing. Letting fighters call hits against themselves may work well in day-to-day sparring within a club but it breaks down easily when fencing somebody from a club with a different force calibration/hit quality standards, never mind competitions.
I wonder if some of the newer gloves on the horizon are going to be good for saber. I'm in a weird spot now, I want different gloves but I want them to stand up both to steel sparring and complex-hilted weapons.
With regards to your point about how beginners hit harder I would actually like to say that for safety reasons, in my club you must have trained for 6 months(usually, in reality it's up to the instructors)before you're allowed to spar with longswords. Not to mention that you will obviously need your own gear, which most complete beginners don't. Also worth mentioning in relation to this is that we pretty much only spar with steel weapons as that's what the club have. Exceptions are rubber daggers, spears, poleaxes(where you still don't spar at full speed)and leather dusacks. Edit: Also, I've never broken a finger in my König gloves but I recently sprained my thumb in it. On the flip side though I will say that I am very happy that I had a König glove on and not something weaker as then I'd probably have ended up with a broken thumb.
No. There are many reasons why not (weight, cost, not good against impacts etc), but the main reason is lack of mobility. Armoured hands cannot hold weapons in the way that unarmoured hands can.
Speak for yourself Matt, I have a pair of Wisby gauntlets that are more mobile than my regular longsword gloves. The reason it might not be a good idea to use gauntlets though is that good ones are really expensive, and if you use them for sparring every week you're going to destroy them before you do your next armoured combat event. Even if you don't do armoured combat, good steel gauntlets are generally more expensive than good HEMA gauntlets by quite a bit.
I've broken someone's fingers who had thick steel gauntlets on. I'm not proud of it but it did happen. Its always about playing the odds, not about guarantees.
I find the fingered SparringGlove easily fits into a sabre/sidesword hilt. The only real issue is price & thumb mobility. Strange considering the thumb they used to put on the mitten offered excellent mobility & protection. Maybe they'd be willing to customise upon request.
The red dragon gloves are great for keeping dexterity. I would not use them for longsword but why not for other less demanding uses? As for injuries with others.. well yes, I have had injuries in the top of the fingers and the wrist...with spes heavies...
Longer cuff, overlapping the jacket's sleeve. Today I got a rapier tip up my sleeve and it wasn't very pleasant. But I also got hit quite hard in my fingers, both inside and outside, and no damage was done. I'm impressed.
I find the Red Dragon almost unusable with rapier, though that may be because we use cup-hilted rapiers, that have a more enclosed hilt, and we finger the guard with two fingers as is custom for Destreza fencing. They also offer much more hand protection and simple work leather gloves are enough.
Homo eructus we're doing vulgar destreza, with a lot of swearing, and indeed using cup hilts. I only own Spes Heavies and Red Dragons light, but since I started doing more rapier/sidesword, I'm definitely buying some super light and long gloves.
I've been sparring with these using steel feders and blackfencer synthetics for over 2 years now. Yes, I had one or two blue fingernails but nothing else. I'm in my second pair now and am quite happy with them. Am I just lucky?
I was wondering if they were worth the investment, I’m a sabre instructor in Brazil and to import those as anything else is freaking expensive... I’ve read about the quality control issues and cause of this, I’m still not sure...
Its difficult to understand how someone hasn't simply produced a modern version of a gothic period gauntlet out of some of the harder plastics with minimal padding underneath. Seems like that would be the most effective protection. Though probably more costly. Still for something this niche there would definitely be a market for it even at a high price. Depending on how good it looks it could even have a secondary market in larp/cosplay.
Precisely. A plate gauntlet would have to be either a custom piece, or have far more "sizes" than the usual S/M/L thing. The material of the plates doesn't really matter for that. If you *do* want decent-ish plastic gauntlets, I recommend visiing the Armour Archive, getting the pattern, a plate of the right type of plastic, and making them yourself. It's not that hard. Or you could just look for plastic SCA gauntlets, there are a few people making those. Usually kydex, rather than kevlar, though. Disclaimer: I cannot guarantee SCA-safe gauntlets are safe for steel HEMA. Have someone who knows what they're doing look at the gauntlets before playing. Also note that even good, hardened steel mitten gauntlets do not guarantee your fingers will be absolutely safe; freak shots happen.
for finger guantlets the issue is price is much higher for equvilent quality/protection level, you can get mitten guantlets that are equivlent or a bit better then spes heavies for about the same price or a tiny bit cheaper.
Hey Matt, At our school, we only use steel swords except for children, and so I was wondering what is your "best on offer" for steel sparring? The more experienced practitioners go full speed with plenty of protection, but what gloves would you recommend, as I feel that is the hand and fingers are most at risk of injury. Thanks!
Personally I consider the Polish Sparring Glove to be the best glove for steel feders I've tried so far. It's got great finger, thumb, back of the hand and wrist protection; you can get the longer cuff version for additional wrist protection, and it's got pretty good mobility. I can switch to thumb guard very easily in it and I've even seen people finger the guard in it without much problems. I don't know if it would fit a saber hilt (Matt says they don't and he's the expert), but they are quite comfortable to use with an arming sword as well.
Matt, what would you recommend for synthetic Victorian military saber, if any synthetic at all? The closest thing I've seen in terms of Red Dragon is the cutlass, but isn't the blade a bit short on that?
We use the Rawlings nylon backswords and cut off some of the side bars of the guard so we can hold them like sabres. They work great - the lack of curve makes no difference.
They are indeed the best _entry level_ gloves for synthetic longsword and maybe the best for sabre (have not tested them yet with steel sabres, though - might have a chance in 2 weeks). However, I still would not recommend using them *without modifications* for any kind of sparring where an opponent is targeting your hands deliberately for these two reasons: 1) Poor fingertip protection. If you have larger hands, your fingertips are dangerously sticking out from behind the plates, even with the larger glove model. I've been hit into fingertips quite hard (with a Rawlings sword, ironically - they are very thin and might get into small unprotected gaps like fingertips or spaces between plates. Black Fencer swords have a much thicker edge and will not get into dangerous gaps). Additional fingertip protection is needed. My current modification: Main hand: pinky finger, ring finger - elongated plates covering the fingertips, glued on top of the original plates; middle finger - Spes fingertip protector inside the glove; index finger - could not sacrifice the mobility, protected by luck and prayer; thumb - Spes fingertip protector inside the glove. Top part of the thumb fingertip protector is removed to the middle (it is only covering the nail), because it would rest very uncomfortably and dangerously on the thumb joint. Off-hand: Spes fingertip protectors for each finger and thumb. 2) No inside of the wrist and base of the thumb protection. I've had torn skin on the inside of the wrist and a dark-blue base of the thumb after being hit into these areas through Red Dragon gloves in a stick sparring. The plastic part on the cord can be bashed into your skin and cause injury, you have to keep it resting on the soft cuff. Most people just remove the cord, since it is quite useless. I am still working on a solution for the inside of the wrist for my own gloves. Will probably add a piece of hard leather with some padding underneath. P.S. I've seen the post on FB that has triggered Matt to make this video. =P
I can fit my Sparring Glove 5-finger glove into a sabre pretty well. Granted, my hands are rather small. The thumb isn't good for using the backstrap-grab, but I don't use it that much so it's not that much of an issue for me. I also do quite a bit of sidesword (much more than sabre frankly) and it's pretty okay for that too. I know some people don't dare to use them for heavy steel longsword sparring, but I haven't had any issues with that. Sure the hits hurt, but they don't break bones and that's good enough for me lol. The one thing I truly dislike about them is the inner glove; it's a ridiculous color and probably the cheapest piece of shit they can get, I'm probably going to have to replace them soon. Not to claim they are perfect for sabre or anything, just felt like sharing my experiences with them.
From my point of view there are two real reasons why Red Dragon gloves are being used so much for sidesword: 1. They are cheap. They cost less than half what the competition costs. 2. Availability. All the other finger gloves out there take ages to get after you order them. Red Dragon gloves have virtually no waiting period and they are cheap enough that vendors can buy them and keep the in stock. So for a lot of people there simply are no viable alternatives. As far as their protective ability goes: A lot of people, in our school, keep getting really painful hits on their fingers on a regular basis. I personally think it's a minor miracle that we don't have more broken finger bones. They are seriously lacking in a lot of fairly dangerous ways and they fall apart pretty quickly with regular use. I've been stuck with using them for a couple of years now because of budget reasons and I keep having to tape them together and get new ones (well the right one at least) fairly often. And I still fear for my fingers all the time. I just wish someone would make a good finger glove that I could use with sidesword. No the Königs gloves don't fit my hand. I did put down money on the Progauntlet project but that seems like a bad joke at this point. At the moment I'm hoping that THOKK weaponmaster gauntlets will live up to the expectations.
What gloves can you recommend for someone with especially tiny hands? I wear size 8 gloves normally and the red dragons my club has are just way too big: My index finger and little finger don't even reach into the last segment.
I have small hands too (size 8 American, size S in a Leon Paul Fencing glove) and I found the extra space in the size 12 Red Dragons to be an advantage since my fingertips are well behind the glove's actual fingertips and get considerable protection from that "crumple zone." Try making sure that your club has the size 12 (not 13) and experiment around to find a comfortable way to fit your fingers in.
scholagladiatoria any jackets you’d recommend for beginners I’m looking to put together a group here in NA for HEMA and would like to hear your thoughts.
Honestly lots of the jackets are good. It depends on what level of protection you need. I have a SPES AP and a Blackarmoury, and I have a new SPES Officer on the way.
For beginners plastrons serve very well, and they should be worn under jackets anyway just in case everybody's nightmare of a stabbing with a broken sword comes true.
No. You usually start with a borrowed sword, and that would be whatever kind of sword the club has to spare -- wooden, synthetic, or steel. So don't worry about it until you've actually joined a club.
I've a friend in SCA who has suffered broken fingers even in actual 14 guage steel gauntlets. So your assertion that you can get fingers broken in anything is accurate. (Granted that person broke the rules and targeted my friend's fingers intentionally.)
Red Dragon has horrible quality control. Of the batches we have 50% are okay while the other 50% are falling pretty much apart immediatly if you look at them the wrong way. So whatever they might be good at is rather irrelevant if you have to keep buying until you get lucky and get a good pair.
That's exactly what happened to the pair I bought. The right glove fell apart after a couple of weeks: it started with the plastic knuckles shattering after a few hits, and the sewing coming loose. The left one fared a bit better. Payed them around 70 euros...unlucky pair I guess...
"50% are okay while the other 50% are falling pretty much apart" Funny, since my right glove is doing totally fine while part of the left glove's stitching is coming undone.
Galdrad You think a couple of weeks is bad? A friend of mine form my club bought a set of Red Dragon gloves to spar with using longswords(steel feders to be precise)and it broke in the first bout. I hit his glove on the "cuff" that goes around the wrise and it immidiately tore right off.
All this may be true for sabre. However, concerning sideswords it is worth watching Illka Hartikainen (well-known Bolognese fencer) modding the RDs because they are not fit for purpose otherwise: ua-cam.com/video/V6EwFaMRqnI/v-deo.html
A red dragon glove gives a great amount of finger dexterity while you wield your bad dragon. You can use multiple techniques and ok but no that would be hilarious
Claiming that they are the "best" is like saying powdered cheese is better than no cheese on a sandwich. The sides of the fingers and the tips are inadequate for early 19th century nylon sabers. That is the basic truth of the glove. The plastic add on finger cups help, but are not ideal because they move around in the tips and you can still get hurt. The sides of the fingers are EXTREMELY vulnerable when using a stirrup guard hilted sabre. I have lost a thumbnail and had a useless small finger for weeks. If you use Napoleonic sabres red dragons are a liability. They could be improved by integrating finger tip protection and having something on the bottom edge of the small finger and the top of the thumb. IF the current offerings of curved sabers available had a full hand guard then yes you would be ok with red dragons. Then there are the odd design elements. such as the strings and velcro pad on the wrist. What are those for anyway, why not have a regular gauntlet like the Spes? I have had to re-stitch the inadequately secured top wrist strap that traps by a blade and then gets ripped during disengagement. HEMA NEEDS A GOOD GLOVE, Red Dragons are not there yet. ua-cam.com/video/wf0P3cpEKNs/v-deo.html
We tried the Fabri Armorum cup hilt rapiers last Friday, not floppy at all but not too stiff either. Nice to leave the gym with the same use of my hands that I had when we started. :)
"The majority of the people buying these gloves are longsworders". You pronounced it wrong. It's "The majority of people doing HEMA are longsworders". Longsword longsword longsword. Can't wait until it's not the posterchild for HEMA anymore. It's far from the most interesting weapon, it just happens to be featured in a good number of medieval treatises.
I love that double hits are what trigger Matt the most. It made me laugh so hard. olypic fencing really gets me for the same reason ahahaha
They aren't allowed for steel longsword at Swordfish.
Not surprised.
I've seen so many people break their fingers in steel longsword tournaments with red dragons
But there was a person using one glove for his right hand in S&B fight fir the 3rd place (Havard Eidheim):
ua-cam.com/video/5Mj6aiYlT-Y/v-deo.htmlm36s
Modified, though, with additional inside of the wrist protection. It is too dangerously uncovered in RD gloves.
Yeah S&B isn't steel longsword.
Some members of my club bought Red Dragon gloves for nylon longsword practice about five or six months ago and they're pretty much fallng apart at the seams at this point. About SPES Heavies, in the last meetup, a guy got his finger smashed pretty badly through them with steel, he even lost a small portion of bone.mass from the fingertip. He wasn't wearing finger protectors inside the glove, though.
I don't like how the gloves don't fit inside the Rawlings baskethilts.
My personal recommendation for sparring with steel feders is the Polish sparring glove. Fantastic protection all around and you can get a long cuff for extra wrist and forearm protection. It is a bit heavy but I find that it still has good mobility and it's easier to switch to a thumb grip or even finger the guard than other hard shell gloves I've tried.
As long as you get the fingertip protectors...
I've never used them personally.
I do for sparring (Not drilling) Ever since an undercut destroyed my ring finger! I don't blame the gloves really, the finger tip protectors just really stop the obvious injuries and then it just becomes accidental ones that break through. I think once they're broken it they're great.
First, you're an amazing salesman. Excellent sales pitch. I need Nick Thomas's opinions on this too.
Second, Red Dragon gloves have been targeting the wrong audience. If what you're saying is true, they should rebrand themselves as Sabre gloves or some description of being the best sabre gloves available
Nick Thomas totally agrees with me.
Who is Nick Thomas?
Check out Academy of Historical Fencing
Nick Thomas here. I wouldn't say they are targeting the wrong audience at all. They are marketed as a cheap and cheerful glove that is also light and very versatile. We recommend them to all of our students for sparring with synthetics, and light contact with steel. They are also well suited to higher contact sparring with some steel weapons like bowl hilt sabres and sidesword. Their low price, weight, and medium level protection make them the most versatile HEMA glove currently available. I use them for steel sabre with stirrup hilts too. Though I wouldn't generally recommend this, its just that a better option doesn't currently exist.
The "Vader Gloves"(Kevlar Gloves) exist as well. They are lighter than Red Dragon gloves and does not offer overly much protection, but are more protective than for example a fencing glove and gives almost perfect dexterity. It's what I use for Rapier.
I would like red Dragon to adjust the basket hilt on their swords so it can accommodate the glove.
Yes, I agree. I had broken finger wearing a Red Dragon glove doing steel sabre back in January. Therefore, I wouldn't recommend them for steel sparring at all. There is an unarmored bit around the little finger which you wouldn't notice until someone whacks you right there. I'd, however, debate your statement around the 5 finger 'Polish Sparring Gloves'. I obtained the new model from Barbara, and that fits in nicely with my Regenyei sabre hilt.
Good review, I've been looking to get my thumb up even with a bit of space to spare for some time.
I had a pair of those that were made by Brine, and they were lacrosse gloves
I got injured in them sparring with leather dussacks over maybe 15 minutes of sparring. My point being, always use the fingertip covers and upgrade as soon as you can since the likelihood of getting injured is quite high if the weapon guard isn't very good.
HOW?! :-O I honestly cannot see how a leather dussack could injure someone wearing these. And upgrade to what? For sabre and sidesword there are no other gloves that fit in their hilts.
Upgrade for arming swords and such, I don't know the brand but the leather dussack was a bigger part of the problem - there is a harder core to it but the guard isn't hard in the inside, it buckles and I got hit on my thumb x)
Possibly this one? ua-cam.com/video/vYnxttzr9T8/v-deo.htmlm51s
Yeah the PH Dussack V1 aren't the best. Their V2 was a lot better but too close to a real trainer impact wise for most people.
Most doing dussack just want to play not train :/
just feels weird we use pretty heavy dussacks with wooden cores (i think might be fiberglass) and I have always used lighter gloves than these and never had an injury. Unless you see a bruised finger as an injury. I've aslo used these (with spes fingertip protectors) for longsword and haven't had any pain (though we're generally careful for hand hits)
Woah, dude! That glove is up to a lot! Can I maybe rent it? It seems to be fairly competent!
I love my Red Dragon gloves. Perfect fit, dulls blows effectively and have lasted me nearly a year. I also have the SPES mittens but they're too restricting with the bracers and jacket. Problem is I've had a couple purple knuckles from spars and a semi-exposed wrist being put in agony by Nick Thomas' girlfriend, but they're risks of the sport, nothing I'm concerned about. So far, I've had no broken components with them and my other bits of gear.
5:06 That IS a whole other discussion! I'd love a video on (uh-oh, controversial term) chivalry in HEMA. Calling shots etc. In practice it can only benefit both practitioners, but I get a vague feeling of 'honour' or 'code' from the whole HEMA thing. Do you feel this is the case?
The problem is that "HEMA" isn't just one thing. Letting fighters call hits against themselves may work well in day-to-day sparring within a club but it breaks down easily when fencing somebody from a club with a different force calibration/hit quality standards, never mind competitions.
Would a removable padded hood which attaches over a sabre hilt be a good idea? It would allow you to wear a lighter glove.
I wonder if some of the newer gloves on the horizon are going to be good for saber. I'm in a weird spot now, I want different gloves but I want them to stand up both to steel sparring and complex-hilted weapons.
With regards to your point about how beginners hit harder I would actually like to say that for safety reasons, in my club you must have trained for 6 months(usually, in reality it's up to the instructors)before you're allowed to spar with longswords. Not to mention that you will obviously need your own gear, which most complete beginners don't.
Also worth mentioning in relation to this is that we pretty much only spar with steel weapons as that's what the club have. Exceptions are rubber daggers, spears, poleaxes(where you still don't spar at full speed)and leather dusacks.
Edit: Also, I've never broken a finger in my König gloves but I recently sprained my thumb in it. On the flip side though I will say that I am very happy that I had a König glove on and not something weaker as then I'd probably have ended up with a broken thumb.
Can you use historical gauntlets for HEMA?
Yes, you can! But tournaments will limit some of the things you can do in tournaments where you're allowed to punch.
No. There are many reasons why not (weight, cost, not good against impacts etc), but the main reason is lack of mobility. Armoured hands cannot hold weapons in the way that unarmoured hands can.
Yes, if you are doing armored fighting :P
Yes you can, but remember that they are not meant for blunt impact protection, but rather a super lightweight protection against cuts and thrusts.
Speak for yourself Matt, I have a pair of Wisby gauntlets that are more mobile than my regular longsword gloves.
The reason it might not be a good idea to use gauntlets though is that good ones are really expensive, and if you use them for sparring every week you're going to destroy them before you do your next armoured combat event. Even if you don't do armoured combat, good steel gauntlets are generally more expensive than good HEMA gauntlets by quite a bit.
I've broken someone's fingers who had thick steel gauntlets on. I'm not proud of it but it did happen. Its always about playing the odds, not about guarantees.
I find the fingered SparringGlove easily fits into a sabre/sidesword hilt. The only real issue is price & thumb mobility.
Strange considering the thumb they used to put on the mitten offered excellent mobility & protection. Maybe they'd be willing to customise upon request.
Thank you. I've been saying the same thing for years.
The red dragon gloves are great for keeping dexterity. I would not use them for longsword but why not for other less demanding uses?
As for injuries with others.. well yes, I have had injuries in the top of the fingers and the wrist...with spes heavies...
Longer cuff, overlapping the jacket's sleeve. Today I got a rapier tip up my sleeve and it wasn't very pleasant. But I also got hit quite hard in my fingers, both inside and outside, and no damage was done. I'm impressed.
I find the Red Dragon almost unusable with rapier, though that may be because we use cup-hilted rapiers, that have a more enclosed hilt, and we finger the guard with two fingers as is custom for Destreza fencing. They also offer much more hand protection and simple work leather gloves are enough.
Homo eructus we're doing vulgar destreza, with a lot of swearing, and indeed using cup hilts. I only own Spes Heavies and Red Dragons light, but since I started doing more rapier/sidesword, I'm definitely buying some super light and long gloves.
Matt’s lucky glove
Skarin Blackraven Legendary Item. +5 to One handed attacks. +5 to Wisdom Checks
Great review! Do you use these with or without fingerprotectors?
Btw, really looking foorward to the updated Koening review!
I've been sparring with these using steel feders and blackfencer synthetics for over 2 years now. Yes, I had one or two blue fingernails but nothing else. I'm in my second pair now and am quite happy with them. Am I just lucky?
I was wondering if they were worth the investment, I’m a sabre instructor in Brazil and to import those as anything else is freaking expensive... I’ve read about the quality control issues and cause of this, I’m still not sure...
Could you elaborate on Neyman? You were going to say something but didn't, I imagine to avoid going off topic.
Its difficult to understand how someone hasn't simply produced a modern version of a gothic period gauntlet out of some of the harder plastics with minimal padding underneath. Seems like that would be the most effective protection. Though probably more costly. Still for something this niche there would definitely be a market for it even at a high price. Depending on how good it looks it could even have a secondary market in larp/cosplay.
problem is the joints would have to be tailored to individual people.
Precisely. A plate gauntlet would have to be either a custom piece, or have far more "sizes" than the usual S/M/L thing. The material of the plates doesn't really matter for that. If you *do* want decent-ish plastic gauntlets, I recommend visiing the Armour Archive, getting the pattern, a plate of the right type of plastic, and making them yourself. It's not that hard.
Or you could just look for plastic SCA gauntlets, there are a few people making those. Usually kydex, rather than kevlar, though.
Disclaimer: I cannot guarantee SCA-safe gauntlets are safe for steel HEMA. Have someone who knows what they're doing look at the gauntlets before playing. Also note that even good, hardened steel mitten gauntlets do not guarantee your fingers will be absolutely safe; freak shots happen.
for finger guantlets the issue is price is much higher for equvilent quality/protection level, you can get mitten guantlets that are equivlent or a bit better then spes heavies for about the same price or a tiny bit cheaper.
That Sabre with the 1796 hilt and the pipe back blade is a seriously sexy sword
Hey Matt,
At our school, we only use steel swords except for children, and so I was wondering what is your "best on offer" for steel sparring? The more experienced practitioners go full speed with plenty of protection, but what gloves would you recommend, as I feel that is the hand and fingers are most at risk of injury.
Thanks!
Would you really use it with a less complex hilt, say a sidesword, though Matt?
Are you using a new camera? there seems to be something different about the way this looks to me but I can't put my finger on it.
When are you talking about the new sabre over the kriss? :) the one with the Toledo blade under the small sword also looks interesting!
Well spotted ;-)
What are your thoughts on the Pro-Gauntlet?
What about steel gauntlets
What is your opinion on gloves for longsword? What is the best for nylon, for steel, and what is the best crossover?
Personally I consider the Polish Sparring Glove to be the best glove for steel feders I've tried so far. It's got great finger, thumb, back of the hand and wrist protection; you can get the longer cuff version for additional wrist protection, and it's got pretty good mobility. I can switch to thumb guard very easily in it and I've even seen people finger the guard in it without much problems. I don't know if it would fit a saber hilt (Matt says they don't and he's the expert), but they are quite comfortable to use with an arming sword as well.
"Doubles are the fucking bane of HEMA!" This should be quoted more often
Matt, what would you recommend for synthetic Victorian military saber, if any synthetic at all? The closest thing I've seen in terms of Red Dragon is the cutlass, but isn't the blade a bit short on that?
We use the Rawlings nylon backswords and cut off some of the side bars of the guard so we can hold them like sabres. They work great - the lack of curve makes no difference.
Thank you so much, Matt. Your videos have inspired me to start studying and practicing HEMA with my brother and father.
They are indeed the best _entry level_ gloves for synthetic longsword and maybe the best for sabre (have not tested them yet with steel sabres, though - might have a chance in 2 weeks). However, I still would not recommend using them *without modifications* for any kind of sparring where an opponent is targeting your hands deliberately for these two reasons:
1) Poor fingertip protection. If you have larger hands, your fingertips are dangerously sticking out from behind the plates, even with the larger glove model. I've been hit into fingertips quite hard (with a Rawlings sword, ironically - they are very thin and might get into small unprotected gaps like fingertips or spaces between plates. Black Fencer swords have a much thicker edge and will not get into dangerous gaps). Additional fingertip protection is needed. My current modification: Main hand: pinky finger, ring finger - elongated plates covering the fingertips, glued on top of the original plates; middle finger - Spes fingertip protector inside the glove; index finger - could not sacrifice the mobility, protected by luck and prayer; thumb - Spes fingertip protector inside the glove. Top part of the thumb fingertip protector is removed to the middle (it is only covering the nail), because it would rest very uncomfortably and dangerously on the thumb joint. Off-hand: Spes fingertip protectors for each finger and thumb.
2) No inside of the wrist and base of the thumb protection. I've had torn skin on the inside of the wrist and a dark-blue base of the thumb after being hit into these areas through Red Dragon gloves in a stick sparring. The plastic part on the cord can be bashed into your skin and cause injury, you have to keep it resting on the soft cuff. Most people just remove the cord, since it is quite useless. I am still working on a solution for the inside of the wrist for my own gloves. Will probably add a piece of hard leather with some padding underneath.
P.S. I've seen the post on FB that has triggered Matt to make this video. =P
I can fit my Sparring Glove 5-finger glove into a sabre pretty well. Granted, my hands are rather small. The thumb isn't good for using the backstrap-grab, but I don't use it that much so it's not that much of an issue for me. I also do quite a bit of sidesword (much more than sabre frankly) and it's pretty okay for that too. I know some people don't dare to use them for heavy steel longsword sparring, but I haven't had any issues with that. Sure the hits hurt, but they don't break bones and that's good enough for me lol. The one thing I truly dislike about them is the inner glove; it's a ridiculous color and probably the cheapest piece of shit they can get, I'm probably going to have to replace them soon.
Not to claim they are perfect for sabre or anything, just felt like sharing my experiences with them.
6:35 Matt about to throw shade at Neymans? Cheeky.
Are these good for sword and buckler?
I will buy them for controlled sparring with steel.
Buy a medical insurance, too.
From my point of view there are two real reasons why Red Dragon gloves are being used so much for sidesword: 1. They are cheap. They cost less than half what the competition costs. 2. Availability. All the other finger gloves out there take ages to get after you order them. Red Dragon gloves have virtually no waiting period and they are cheap enough that vendors can buy them and keep the in stock. So for a lot of people there simply are no viable alternatives.
As far as their protective ability goes: A lot of people, in our school, keep getting really painful hits on their fingers on a regular basis. I personally think it's a minor miracle that we don't have more broken finger bones. They are seriously lacking in a lot of fairly dangerous ways and they fall apart pretty quickly with regular use. I've been stuck with using them for a couple of years now because of budget reasons and I keep having to tape them together and get new ones (well the right one at least) fairly often. And I still fear for my fingers all the time. I just wish someone would make a good finger glove that I could use with sidesword. No the Königs gloves don't fit my hand. I did put down money on the Progauntlet project but that seems like a bad joke at this point.
At the moment I'm hoping that THOKK weaponmaster gauntlets will live up to the expectations.
What gloves can you recommend for someone with especially tiny hands? I wear size 8 gloves normally and the red dragons my club has are just way too big: My index finger and little finger don't even reach into the last segment.
I have small hands too (size 8 American, size S in a Leon Paul Fencing glove) and I found the extra space in the size 12 Red Dragons to be an advantage since my fingertips are well behind the glove's actual fingertips and get considerable protection from that "crumple zone." Try making sure that your club has the size 12 (not 13) and experiment around to find a comfortable way to fit your fingers in.
Is it good for polypropylene or nylon long sword
Matt do you have any advice concerning gear when getting into HEMA for sparring mainly chest and arm protection?
Yes, get a jacket.
scholagladiatoria any jackets you’d recommend for beginners I’m looking to put together a group here in NA for HEMA and would like to hear your thoughts.
Honestly lots of the jackets are good. It depends on what level of protection you need. I have a SPES AP and a Blackarmoury, and I have a new SPES Officer on the way.
For beginners plastrons serve very well, and they should be worn under jackets anyway just in case everybody's nightmare of a stabbing with a broken sword comes true.
hi mat how do real gauntlets hold up to steal sparing? real steal
They are not good against impact injuries, they are heavy, have to be made to measure and do not offer good flexibility.
Can you review Bad Dragon?
Lol what?
My res Dragon Gloves allready Fall apart After One Year :-(
Just wait for the new Thokk weaponmaster gloves...
I have high hopes for them, but I suspect that they will be too large for sabre, like the Koenigs.
if i were to get into HEMA do i have to start with a synthetic sword? do you start your noobs with synthetic swords?
No. You usually start with a borrowed sword, and that would be whatever kind of sword the club has to spare -- wooden, synthetic, or steel. So don't worry about it until you've actually joined a club.
I've a friend in SCA who has suffered broken fingers even in actual 14 guage steel gauntlets. So your assertion that you can get fingers broken in anything is accurate. (Granted that person broke the rules and targeted my friend's fingers intentionally.)
"....and a new event" - have I missed something? :-)
Red Dragon has horrible quality control. Of the batches we have 50% are okay while the other 50% are falling pretty much apart immediatly if you look at them the wrong way.
So whatever they might be good at is rather irrelevant if you have to keep buying until you get lucky and get a good pair.
That's exactly what happened to the pair I bought. The right glove fell apart after a couple of weeks: it started with the plastic knuckles shattering after a few hits, and the sewing coming loose. The left one fared a bit better. Payed them around 70 euros...unlucky pair I guess...
It appears to be an issue with stitching. Ive had to resow mine after 9 months while others' are fine after 2 years.
"50% are okay while the other 50% are falling pretty much apart"
Funny, since my right glove is doing totally fine while part of the left glove's stitching is coming undone.
Galdrad You think a couple of weeks is bad? A friend of mine form my club bought a set of Red Dragon gloves to spar with using longswords(steel feders to be precise)and it broke in the first bout. I hit his glove on the "cuff" that goes around the wrise and it immidiately tore right off.
Imho the Hungarian PBT are better for the stated purpose
All this may be true for sabre. However, concerning sideswords it is worth watching Illka Hartikainen (well-known Bolognese fencer) modding the RDs because they are not fit for purpose otherwise: ua-cam.com/video/V6EwFaMRqnI/v-deo.html
So you're saying that HEMA is pay-to-win when it comes to nylon swords? Hmm...
:p
just finish the quest and get barrows gloves dude
Mind reviewing some Bad Dragon products instead next time? Cheers!
A red dragon glove gives a great amount of finger dexterity while you wield your bad dragon. You can use multiple techniques and ok but no that would be hilarious
Oh come now Matt, if you're not spending a minimum of $1,000 on each piece of gear you use you're not really doing HEMA right?
Claiming that they are the "best" is like saying powdered cheese is better than no cheese on a sandwich. The sides of the fingers and the tips are inadequate for early 19th century nylon sabers. That is the basic truth of the glove. The plastic add on finger cups help, but are not ideal because they move around in the tips and you can still get hurt. The sides of the fingers are EXTREMELY vulnerable when using a stirrup guard hilted sabre. I have lost a thumbnail and had a useless small finger for weeks. If you use Napoleonic sabres red dragons are a liability. They could be improved by integrating finger tip protection and having something on the bottom edge of the small finger and the top of the thumb. IF the current offerings of curved sabers available had a full hand guard then yes you would be ok with red dragons. Then there are the odd design elements. such as the strings and velcro pad on the wrist. What are those for anyway, why not have a regular gauntlet like the Spes? I have had to re-stitch the inadequately secured top wrist strap that traps by a blade and then gets ripped during disengagement. HEMA NEEDS A GOOD GLOVE, Red Dragons are not there yet.
ua-cam.com/video/wf0P3cpEKNs/v-deo.html
I agree that they have several flaws, but the statement remains true that they are the best available for sabre. We do indeed need something better.
We tried the Fabri Armorum cup hilt rapiers last Friday, not floppy at all but not too stiff either. Nice to leave the gym with the same use of my hands that I had when we started. :)
"The majority of the people buying these gloves are longsworders". You pronounced it wrong. It's "The majority of people doing HEMA are longsworders". Longsword longsword longsword. Can't wait until it's not the posterchild for HEMA anymore. It's far from the most interesting weapon, it just happens to be featured in a good number of medieval treatises.
The RD gloves' wrist protection is absolutely rubbish!
First :P
Bought that gloves, hope they will be good :X
Have you ever had to fight for real?
32shumble are you asking about tournaments or a street fight? He's been competing and winning for years in tournaments
how could anyone fight "for real" with swords without end dead or in prison?
Care to respond back? Do we have a possible edgelord here? Enlighten us, oh fighty one.
Why is he an edgelord for asking if he's ever been in a real fight? Crank up the buzzword dial, gee.
Sparring with gloves is like save scumming in games.
Enough with the anti-Neyman bias already. For fuck's sake man.
Huh?
The finger protection is awful and the backs of the hands are so massive that they do not fit in sabre hilts.