@@roadent217 However Karma in FNV is basically a vestigial element from F3 and matters far less outside of a few interactions. It makes more sense to rely on a reputation system.
@@oklanimesomone said this was an mistake by the devs. Stealing from the Legion isnt supposed to makw you lose Karma but the game cant tell the difference who you are stealing from. It just reconises that you are stealing but not from whome.
If you are tricky enough, you can collect more than a hundred dogtags while staying a good guy and get to be idolized by pretty much everyone in Nevada (I haven't found a way to get both goodsprings and powder gangers but that is the only exception)
I actually found a really easy way to get caps in 3. By killing every NPC named "Rivet City Guard" and then selling their combat armor to the Rivet City vendors after waiting a day. Not that there's much of anything to actually spends those caps on, but at least it was easy to get them.
@@smo-king6504 Not in New Vegas, you can't. Try selling anything to NCR vendors after the NCR has decided to kill you on sight. Are you trying to argue that being able to sell the armor of the town's guards that you murdered, back to the people of that same town somehow makes any kind of sense?
@@Mirthful_Midori okay you say that but also: my main tactic in my kill everyone run to get a lot of caps is to repeatedly kill the gun runner guards, and then sell their armor and weapons to the vendertron outside.
@@Mirthful_Midori you know there's an exploit for getting ncr equipment for sell after killing without get bad reps to them [Just drop 2 dynamite near some ranger, hide,then shot the dynamite] I done this like alot of time when I help the powder ganger mission (easy 2000 or 3000 caps)
But the real question is, how does Caesar know I killed that one Recruit Legionary that one time from a quarter mile away with a rifle with no witnesses and only to complete a quest? Why am I shunned Caesar? *Why?*
On the other end of the spectrum, I did a sneak kill on the dude that confiscates your weapons in The Fort and neither the other two legionnaires or Cursor Lucullus seemed to care despite the dude exploding literally next to them.
Idk if all quests tied NPC will guarantee to give or reduce your reputation and karma by killing them, but in Nelson quest, you can still snipe all the Legionaries undetected and you wont shift your status but still gain karma, even if your companions kill them in plain sight, as long as youre undetected, youre good with Legion, but the moment they spotted you, all kill from you and ur friends will count towards ur rep
What's also interesting about NV reputation is from what I've seen the different factions will have different tolerance levels for actions against them. I killed so many Khans in my playthrough and they still never aggro'd to me by default, but as soon as you begin helping the NCR the Legion sends assassins after you every other night.
I killed Jessup, his gang, and Oscar during a House run. I ended Idolized by the Khans despite never going to Red Rock. Apparently I did something they liked.
I'm sure you could nuke the Great Khans and if you did one nice thing for them, they'd still thing you're a loose cannon instead of an absolute war criminal.
That might be a bug, I remember murdering literally every single Great Khan I could see in Red Rock and Boulder City and for whatever reason none of them ever aggrod even when I went there vilified
@@oneblacksun How does it matter less? The only difference is that in 3 if you have bad karma everyone just hates you for no reason. In New Vegas it's just the factions you have bad reputation with that hate you, it makes way more sense.
@@gooseteeth5455 Reputation has no real bearing on Karma. Karma in NV only matters for some flavour text in the ending slides and three perks that you unlock at level 50. That's it.
Prolly some of the leftovers before the time Obsidian scrapped the Fiends from the list oi sub-factions in the game due to limited development time. Someone made a video of NV cut contents and IIRC you could have help the Fiends to take over McCarran from NCR. Other than that there are actual dialogues and voices of the courier's conversation with driver Nephi, Violet and Cookcook still in the game files
@@EzraelVio How convenient that the time restraints has been used to excuse literally every design flaw that the game has. NV fans truly are the MAGA of the Gaming community.
@@EzraelVio Nobody said anything about complaining. I'm just pointing out that every time someone brings up something bad about New Vegas, the fancels are quick to bring up that they were working with time constraints. That's a bit sus now ain't it.
I've been playing more Obsidian games lately. They seem to be dropping good/evil systems entirely and focusing more on having positive or negative reputation with various factions, which is probably a positive move since their factions are almost never all-good or all-evil.
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516 Every faction in The Outer Worlds is morally compromised one way or the other. "The Board" is certainly depicted as the worst of a bad lot, but it is also suggested that by bringing them down, you're following a madman and potentially causing mass starvation. Regardless, I was comparing it to games that have a good/evil slider for the main character.
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516 At least one of the corporation is competent. It's not so much "corporation bad" than the lack of restraint being a recipe for disaster.
@@LeriHunter Granted that is usually what a "Corporation bad" scenario plays off of, that if corporations didn't have something, whether that be a government or the people having the ability to stop them, they will just not restrain themselves, there is a reason why worker's strikes, regulations, and unions exist.
When I first played new vegas I used to hate the fact that you could never fully recover your reputation, but now I really like it and it makes a lot more sense for the world that you can only ever go back to a neutralish state after making a group hate you, so you can get them to stop attacking you but never actually forgive what you did in the past. Makes consequences for your actions feel really weighty instead of just being able to give water to a homeless guy and the universe being like "well you blew up a town, but you gave water to the homeless so your very good"
Keeping a set of armor from the NCR and Caesar’s Legion (and maybe the Powder Gangers) makes keeping a decent reputation with the various factions somewhat easy. Wear Legion armor while attacking NCR placements should keep you from loosing reputation with the NCR while wearing your regular gear. Wear NCR armor while going after the Legion for similar results.
@pyrosplicer85 oh really, I didn't know you could wear a disguise to avoid losing reputation, I thought it was just for belnding in and not getting attacked in a factions base. Thats good to know
I just dislike that every faction knows magically what i am up to all the time. Would be nice that in ceratin scenarios leaving *no* survivors has certain effect.
FONV: There are 4 factions to side with and it's easy to piss them off except Yes Man. FO3: There's 1 faction to side with so just give it like 6 hours and they'll forgive everything over and over
The fallout 3 brotherhood pissed me off so much purely because of how boring they were that I would just repeatedly shotgun scribe rothchild and elder lyons in the citadel and literally no one would bat an eye
One of my favourite things about FNV reputation system is that positive and negative reputation is tracked separately. It’s possible to have 100% in both positive and negative reputation, meaning you can’t nuke a town and then just give water to a single beggar to outweigh it, it’s a really clever system that’s way ahead of it’s time, even now!
@kaiserfranzjoseph9311Its a flawed system but definitely better than the alternative. Yeah I killed all the boomers, but I gave raquel some missiles so Im a soft hearted devil.
actually i sided with Goodsprings and because I left the Powder Gangers alone after that, they formed a truce with me?? Oddly enough?? Like they didn't give a shit at all when I went to the prison and got the old sheriff guy back@kaiserfranzjoseph9311
Not MUCH , but this games are 50% similiar and 50% very different. Fallout 3 is about great story and atmosphere with lots of side quests with their own original story, NV is about atmosphere ,more story variations, mechanics and replayabillity. Both is legendary games
One thing I found funny about Fallout 3 is how the karma system isn’t dynamic like in new vegas, all the gains and losses are pre-set, meaning you can unwarranted, blow a particular someone’s brain into pure gristle and the game will reward you for it bc “oh well they were bad anyway” despite you not knowing that whatsoever. Mr Burke is one example. Megaton loves it when you kill him with zero cause because they telekinetically knew he was there to blow the place up
I managed to get vilified by the Legion while wearing their own armor during the Nelson Hostage quest, and when everything was done, I took it off and my rep with the Legion is back to Merciful Thug, and it never goes back to Vilified when I put it back on, as if they will never see you as the same person twice unless you do it in front of them I also like how with Merciful Thug, you can enter Legion camps no problem(Namely Cottonwood Cove), but you still get jumped by assasins
Everyone seems to forget that obsidiant created fallout new vegas after fallout 3 and they looked at all the things fallout 3 did bad and made them good. Both games are good, just that one learned from the other
New Vegas doesn’t have anything to owe to 3. All the good parts of new Vegas are because it followed the design philosophy of fallout 1 and 2. The things it took from 3 (the models, textures, engine, gun play, animation.) are the worst parts of new Vegas. Its not better because it takes from fallout 3 it’s better despite it.
@@NopeNothingD9 And to top it off, people loves New vegas over 3 and what does the shitbag of a company Bethesda do? They literally make Fallout 3.2. It has the EXACT same plot as 3 only: Find Dad/Son (Father), Destroy "evil" metal men (Synths or Brotherhood) and done. The Karma system they removed entirely and making basically 50% of all people "Essential NPC's". Nothing you do even has an impact on the world unless it's a "Bethesda quest". The Dialogue is utter garbage with zero roleplay value. And let's not forget the "Morality compass" they love so much to have. The Only thing, one thing that saved 4, is the gunplay and gameplay aspects. Base building and such. That's it. Bethesda should stop making Fallout completely and give the rights to Obsidian to make the games from now on. They can just hire Obsidian like they did with New Vegas and then publish the games. No need to "Sell the rights" just give them the Developer rights.
@@seriousshitload529 Unfortunately most of the manpower is gone from Obsidian, if you want to see a modern Fallout-esque Obsidian game, look at Outer Worlds. A pretty ok game but nothing to write home about. Fortunately they work/ed on other good projects.
I had to restart 40 minutes of gameplay because I stole a glass on accident and my only real save was an auto save from leaving the building after I stole😭😭😭
The karma system in Fallout 3 is much worse, as it is "overall" and very "general" so when you do something bad, all your overall factions are affected and think your evil; however, in Fallout New Vegas there are different factions so that if you do something bad with them, there's always another faction to go to. For example, killing people in Rivet City vs killing people in Goodsprings. Also the karma system in Fallout New Vegas is somewhat irrelevant.
I mean yeah but that also has its down side. Like I can kill everyone in good springs, Novac, Pimm and then rock up to Helios 1 and the NCR guards will treat me as a saint that can do no wrong. Personally if they mixed the two together and polished it more that could make for better roleplay. Sure the NCR will ‘like me’ and know I’ve helped them. But I’m also a mass murder that’s killed heap of defiles less civilians. If they were to combine that with the fallout 2 event perks that could get for like eating someone that stay around no matter if would make for an amazing reputation system
@@Gdsryrox There's a mod where if you are good, the Omerta's send hitmen after you, and if you are evil, bounty hunters and mercenaries get sent by the NCR to come get you. It also gives you perks based on your karma level.
Start Nv Do lonesome road first Nuke both ncr and legion Maximum negitive reputation Walk into the tops Don't even kill Benny Ncr and legion: We're sure it was an accident. Can we still be friends??? ❤
Fallout 3 be like: "Hey look it's that guy that shot up the whole marketplace and stole everything. Should we like, kill him?" "Nah bro, that was last week"
Dont forget about the NCR and Legion reputation exploit when you first come to Vegas lmao, after meeting Benny and exiting The Tops, you will be greeted by NCR soldier and Vulpes from Legion, both of them informing that each faction leaders want to meet you, at this point, your bad reputation will be reseted to Neutral, no matter how bad you are towards them That means as long you dont visit Vegas, you can complete Lonesome Road dlc first, nuke both factions, slaughter all of their camps, and just go to Vegas to complete the main quests, and they will act like the nuke never happened at all
I agree. That's really silly. What obsidian should've done is if your negative reputation level is equivalent to "Hated", the NCR or Legion will issue you an ultimatum. "Work for us, and your crimes will be forgiven. Decline, and you won't see the next day. You have 6 hours." It advances the "point of no return" for those two factions where you can no longer continue to work with both of them. Forcing you to pick a side immediately by either coming along with Vulpes or that NCR MP, or visiting Caesar or Ambassador Crocker ASAP.
@kaiserfranzjoseph9311 It is not so difficult, Honest Hearts begins at level 10, and you will be 27-30 for when you finish the third. (or 25-27 if you have skilled trait)
Fallout NV: here is a multilayered reputation system that tracks each faction separately, as well as your overall fame across the Mojave, and you have to be careful with what clothing you wear because faction clothing is considered as allegiance or may be interpreted as a spy. Fallout 3: if option1 then rewardKarma 1 if option2 then rewardKarma -1
Atleast three dog acknowledge your existence mr new vegas: so Cesar is dead we don't know who did it Three dog: you monster you nuked a whole city and murder a ton of good people
ua-cam.com/video/Y5iZ6fYGggU/v-deo.html that moment when you go from helping the brotherhood out of the dark to imediately initiating the bunker self-destruct because Paladin Ramos looked at you funny
The reputation is very good but it really sucks as soon as you get past the point of no return in Yes Man’s run. I’m beloved by the khans, recognized as a paladin and brother by the Brotherhood of Steel, and have perfectly good karma (I’m literally Jesus in fallout) but it all goes to waste in the end abd there’s no special treatment for players who did things like maybe the way I did.
I loved how in 3, your reputation wasn’t a stat, but people would comment on your actions throughout the wastes. Especially Three Dog. Really felt cool as a kid hearing the news talk about my character saving the wasteland. I also struggled with the fire ant quest and felt so guilty that I didn’t figure out how to get the best ending
The reputation system is literally the best way I've ever seen the player's actions impact the game world. It's so well done I have no idea how it hasn't been copied to death by now
Fallout 2 also had faction reputations and a more complicated morality system, Bethesda just got rid of all of that and let you nuke an entire town and then give bottled water to a homeless guy and everyone loves you again.
Eh, not really. I didn’t even notice either was a thing until right before going to the oil rig. If anything it’s even weirder because certain choices like becoming a slaver or killing Stump Jumping Jethro’s kid out in the middle of nowhere essentially grants you infinite negative karma and makes the whole system redundant outside of losing all your companions.
worth remembering that the last fallout game before fallout 3 was fallout brotherhood of steel, which nearly slew the franchise until bethesda came along.
@@MrCritic77 It's actually not weird if you're a slaver or a child killer you should be hated forever. Making choices that awful should ruin your entire game. What's weird is fallout 3 where you can nuke an innocent town enslave children and do all the evil stuff you want and get back all your lost karma by giving bottled water to a homeless guy, making the whole system pointless outside of a few lines of dialogue from your dad.
@@modelmajorpita So for your first point, for where they’re placed, it really shouldn’t. Becoming a slaver is basically a beginners trap and not being able to atone for the decision makes the role play and the karma system of the game feel more limited and less in your control as the player. 3 fixes this issue by including more world-building situations that build off the decision to destroy Megaton, for example. Doing it, you lose a bunch of side quests including the main quest if you’re not careful, you lose a companion, you get a new encounter in the form of Megaton survivors, and a bunch of new dialogue from NPCs, not just Dad. The karma system still doesn’t play much of a role but you can appreciate the weight of the decision more because of how the world is affected by what you do. Also, you’re not wrong about giving water to beggars. You get +50 points for each bottle of water and it’s +1000 for max positive karma and -1000 for max negative karma so 40 bottles of purified water will completely offset your negative reputation. I think a +5 bonus is more appropriate. But that’s a pretty tiny nitpick considering you can count on a single hand how many beggars there are.
@@MrCritic77what quests do you lose? Moira? She's alive and became a ghoul. The megaton refugees? Those are random encounters. I've nuked megaton and have never seen them once. The only named NPCs I've seen acknowledge Megaton being nuked is Liam Neeson where he's "disappointed in you" and 3dog where he accuses you of blowing the shithole up.
You removed the chains that equalised me with the other ballet dancers. Removed my brain handicap that kept all the horrible but true thoughts away. This was a huge mistake I should have never opened my mouth at all
One thing I like more about Fallout 3’s karma system over new vegas is that in new vegas you can do one bad deed in one area and people on the other side of the map will somehow know what you did and hate for it, But in fallout 3, it makes sense that people across the wasteland know of the various deeds you do because you can hear Three Dog informing everyone about it over galaxy radio
Fallout 3 moral system is FUBAR. It is stupidly simple - for example, you can whack Megaton with nuclear blast and then give about a dozen bottles of water to a beggar near Rivet City to outweigh this. Again. Destroying the town and its residents with one of the worst ways possible and giving water for free to ONE single lowlife beggar. That's, in F3 eyes, makes a perfect karmic balance. I don't speak about F3 reputation system because it is absent there. FNV, of course, does this on entirely other level (F1-2 level, to be specifically, + some tweaks like mixed reputations).
@@Notimportant3737 it's an abbreviation :) F(reak)ed Up Beyond All Repairs/Recognition Something really bad, be it the situation, condition or something else
I was a bit confused when I massacred the Legion slave camp only for one of them to stop shooting and I find that I have a Mixed relationship with them
It’s my first time playing new Vegas, and it makes me glad seeing how karma works in 3, because I don’t know what this affects in NV so I try my best to not do anything bad
Fallout New Vegas: The road to hell is paved with good intentions, with no ‘good ending’, whatever you choose will reflect your own personal values. Fallout 3: “Brotherhood is GOOD!” *roared the monkey as his fellow monkeys cheered him on* “Enclave is BAD! Be bad guy? NO! OOGA BOOGA OOGA BOOGAAAAAAAAA!”
@@octodaddy877BoS and Enclave shouldn't even exist in Fallout 3. The BoS was already dying out by the time of Fallout 2, and the Enclave was annihilated by the end of Fallout 2. Bethesda only brought them back for iCoNoGrApHy and they didn't even make up a good reason for them to be on the East Coast. Let alone write these two factions well enough to be suitable for a choices and consequences heavy dialogue focused role playing game.
@@DJWeapon8They gave good reason for both of the factions to be on the East Coast lol. Its made quite clear that the BoS only suffered because of the Enclaves presence in the west, and with the Oil Rig gone their range was very limited. And back to the Enclave, it would be surprising if they DIDNT set up a base in the nations capital, considering the entire origin of the faction to begin with.
@@LucyWest370 iCoNoGrApHy is not a good reason. But I'll bite. The Brotherhood of Steel are relatively small isolationist groups. These chapters, even combined, have neither the manpower nor the logistical capability to *walk 3000 miles in unknown hostile territory and treacherous terrain that are the middle states of the US.* Their xenophobic ideology would mean that they'd rather die than accept new recruits in mass numbers to bolster their forces. Their technophilic ideology would also have them plant roots in those middle states to gather up high technology there in the immediate area, further reducing their capabilities to walk to DC. The Enclave? The US top government evacuated because they knew it would get *nuked to hell and back.* Are you seriously going to stay in your house because "its your house" despite knowing full well that its going to be burned to ash down to the foundations including you?
@@DJWeapon8 Ok yes Ill admit that its stupid because “Iconography” but there are very good explanations for both. Firstly, the Brotherhood’s main goal is to take control of every single piece of technology they deem as dangerous and keep it out of the hands of those they dont deem fit. Considering the first thing the BoS do upon arriving at the capital is take the Pentagon, the United States’ defense building, Id say that perfectly in character for the faction, plus we know theyve moved out east before and have bases in Chicago and whatnot. Secondly, Bethesda did give an explanation for the Enclave, as President Eden said he was the highest ranking member of the Enclave alive and told all of the survivors from Navarro to move East so they could rebuild. While yes this is also kind of contrived, at the very least its an explanation that makes sense. If there are two groups that should be fighting over the remnants of the U.S capital, it should be the Brotherhood and Enclave. Plus, the Enclave’s plan was to go to space, its very likely a good number of them were unable to relocate to the Oil rig in time before the great war. But as per usual all of this gets thrown out the window in Fallout 4.
Fallout New Vegas's NPC be like : "losses reputation by helping a village of mutants by killing a bunch of guns for hire" Courier : my reputation is ruined
literally every bethesda fallout game feels like a missed opportunity for something cool. The inner enclave conflict of autumn vs eden would have been dope if you could side with autumn since he actually doesn't want to genocide the wasteland
In all fairness, New Vegas was the first game to implement a faction system that allowed you to get different endings, an idea Bethesda liked so much they copied it to a T in Fallout 4 to varying levels of success.
I came here for funny memes and now I found debates about if the enclave (the guys who tried to you know, kill everyone with a fucking virus) are good guys
Me: nukes the Colorado and the entire legion area to hell in the lonesome road DLC. NCR Fame Gained. *Still not able to get the key to the ranger shack near black mountain.*
My fav moment from new vegas. Killed all or the freeside followers members. Go to the other follower outpost. Courier: can i join the followers? follower:no
Gotta say... for all the positives of FNV... People really like exaggerating tf out of a simple system in poor attempts to make them legendary... I’ll never claim F3 is flawless or has a better system. But FNV literally allows you to nuke a nation and still allie with them. The reputation system really wasn’t all that great and is ripe for exploitation. Well, time to brace for incoming hate reply’s.
Not sure why they maintained the regular karma system at all in New Vegas--they should have just removed it. IDK why but even when I sided with the legion and committed unspeakable acts of horror, it was hard to *not* end the game with good Karma. It didn't help that killing the always hostile Fiends resulted in Good Karma. Like yeah, I totally killed the fiends out of a sense of altruism, it couldn't possibly have been out of sheer necessity.
Agreed. The Karma system in New Vegas was largely vestigial. The only NPC I know that react to your Karma is Cass. She'll leave your ass if you're evil. That said. The game should still keep track of how many you kill in general and give you a unique "Trait" like how killing 1000 things gives you the "Lord Death" perk that slightly increases your damage. For example. If you kill 1000 things, Lanius acknowledges your bloodthirsty nature and will lock you into fighting him regardless of you having 100 Speech to convince him to leave Vegas for now. Saying something along the lines of: "Your brutality has painted the sands of the Mojave red with the blood of your victims. And now you seek to prove your strength by besting the Legate of the Legion. Very well, I accept." You can reply you don't want to fight and just want to talk. But Lanius just dismisses you saying: "No. The trail of destruction you created shows you are incapable of diplomacy, only violence. Proof that those outside the Legion create dissolutes like you. And as Legate of the Legion, it is now become my moral task to end you." And then he smacks you with sword.
Fallout New Vegas Karma: Oh? You massacred Goodsprings, Nipton, Novac, and even Aeroside for some reason for no reason? Ah its all good bro, you killed a few fiends. Fo3 Karma: You… you blew up an entire fucking settlement you bastard. You are going to be hunted across the wasteland, you will always have eyes on your back- what the hell would your father think?
Disingenuous. Both 3 and New Vegas let you easily redeem evil karma. With Fallout 3 being the easiest of the two games by letting you offset the evil karma nuking of a town full of (retarded) innocents by simply donating bottles of water to beggars.
The Reputation System covers that, karma is pretty much a vestigial system replaced by reputation. Also Nipton is already wiped out before you get to it, have you even Played New Vegas or did you just look up the names of the settlements on the wiki?
@@benito1620 You can still kill two of the residents of Nipton. Like the first home you can enter you can find a guy named Boxcars. Theres also Swanson
I mean yea but this isn’t a good example of the Karma system in FO3. It’s works better as a somewhat more over all system and your interaction with NPC. One of my current Fo3 characters is a mercanary thats middle of the road karma and does jobs for caps above morality. And 3 Dog make a note of this saying that I’d do anything for a pay check over the radio. Also slavers and other factions alike tolerate me. Meanwhile sure NV system is more diverse but it’s also limited. I can go around fee side and Novak and smaller settlements. Brutally kill everyone by the NCR will still love me despite being a mass murder. I think the best way would to combine the two. Have a general Karma meter to Reflect your world wide general reputation, if you are a bad person or good and have specific faction relation on top of it.
The reputation system is great, but the karmic system makes no sense. I will wipe out entire towns of innocent people but because my killmonger counter has slightly more fiends in it, Im suddenly Saint Patrick? Yeh its a bit iffy
I thought the NV reputation system failed to achieve its intended goals, it merely allowed players to kill allies for fun. It should have been better integrated with the clothing system, but it was way too buggy
Fallout 3: You stole a spoon? Well, you better pray to whatever god will listen as you will be seeing them soon. New Vegas upon leaving the Tops casino: You may have nuked the both of us, but we'll forgive you and wipe away any transgressions we have against you.
New Vegas's karma system is useless, because killing "evil" karma npcs gives you good karma, and "evil" karma npc's are the majority of hostile npcs on the map, so also the majority of random encounters, including ghouls, fiends, the legion, and many of the npcs of the strip casinos. So, going on a genocide everyone run (one of the selling points of New Vegas) will still get you positive karma. So one playthrough, because I was tired of being pushed toward the main story questline at every location, I killed every npc of every faction, and ate every single one of their corpses, and stole every owned item I could find, and still showed as "very good." Why? Because of this "righteous murder" mechanic.
You can really feel how little they cared putting together Fallout 3 as opposed to New Vegas. Even Fallout 4 misses the mark majorly, ruining some really interesting parts of the game like power armour training for fuel cells.
@@kylothy487 New Vegas' strengths come in writing, characters, and roleplaying. Those things are important, yes, but not as important as gameplay itself.
@kylothy487 Whats smooth about FO4? It's still clunky. The sprinting "mechanic" adds virtually 0 to the game. And also, you're obviously a console player
Yeah come back to me whenever your radio stations are synced up to your karma system, and it isn't stuck playing the same five shitty songs over and over again on perhaps the most unbalanced narration-to-music display in modern gaming.
Bethesda fundamentally misunderstood the BoS so fucking hard is laughable. They are the most obsessive hoarders in the entire Fallout universe, they care for NO ONE but themselves, they LITERALLY BELIEVE it would be fine if everyone but them dies. They are zealots of technology, but not by trying to understand it, they worship it to an unhealthy degree. The enclave while they are the cartoonishly evil baddies which i didn't like in Fallout 2, at least they had their reasons, far crazier than the Master in F1 ever had but they had their reasons nonetheless, they serve as a critique of USA Imperialism. But Bethesda instead believes the Enclave HAS to be cartoonishly evil always.
Y'know Lyon's Brotherhood is completely different due to his expedition of the Pitt, he basically had a change of heart and gathered some followers to help out the Capital wasteland, while some people in his group were dissatisfied and thought he was betraying the ways of how the brotherhood operates, they branched off and became the Outcasts and their the other group of brotherhood that are in the capital and they are continuing what they do in the west.
Fallout 3: "you stole trash from a slaver's trashcan" [[KARMA REDUCED SOUND]] "You are evil"
Fallout New Vegas: "you stole trash from a Powder Ganger's trashcan" [[KARMA REDUCED SOUND]] "You are evil"
@@roadent217 However Karma in FNV is basically a vestigial element from F3 and matters far less outside of a few interactions. It makes more sense to rely on a reputation system.
@@roadent217 Kill legionaries and you get good karma(as you should), but loot their storage lockers afterwards and you get bad karma(???)
@@oklanimeYOU FILTHY THIEF
@@oklanimesomone said this was an mistake by the devs. Stealing from the Legion isnt supposed to makw you lose Karma but the game cant tell the difference who you are stealing from. It just reconises that you are stealing but not from whome.
Fallout New Vegas Reputation: depends on player behavior and action.
Fallout 3 Reputation: Brotherhood good, Enclave bad.
It isn' t the reputation, It Is the entire plot
Bethesda Fallout 🙄
@@izakireemsi2783 that's always been fallout. Enclave has always been the cartoonishly evil bad guys
@@BasedStruggler good guys*
@@n0t_zat0ichi29 "good" guys
Fallout 3: Good guys collect fingers, Bad guys collect ears."
Me, a serial kill- *ahem* …intellectual, collecting both ears and fingers.
Meanwhile in New Vegas: “Good” Guys collect Ears, Bad guys collect Dogtags.”
@@user-rq5sd1sq8o Eliminator Leck it's a pleasure to meet you.
@@captainnomekop5056 good guys can literally collect heads in new vegas (the fiends)
If you are tricky enough, you can collect more than a hundred dogtags while staying a good guy and get to be idolized by pretty much everyone in Nevada (I haven't found a way to get both goodsprings and powder gangers but that is the only exception)
I actually found a really easy way to get caps in 3. By killing every NPC named "Rivet City Guard" and then selling their combat armor to the Rivet City vendors after waiting a day. Not that there's much of anything to actually spends those caps on, but at least it was easy to get them.
No way you can make ingame money by killing generic NPCs and selling their loot, then waiting for them to respawn to repeat the process???
@@smo-king6504 Not in New Vegas, you can't. Try selling anything to NCR vendors after the NCR has decided to kill you on sight.
Are you trying to argue that being able to sell the armor of the town's guards that you murdered, back to the people of that same town somehow makes any kind of sense?
@@Mirthful_Midori I'd like to apologize
@@Mirthful_Midori okay you say that but also: my main tactic in my kill everyone run to get a lot of caps is to repeatedly kill the gun runner guards, and then sell their armor and weapons to the vendertron outside.
@@Mirthful_Midori you know there's an exploit for getting ncr equipment for sell after killing without get bad reps to them
[Just drop 2 dynamite near some ranger, hide,then shot the dynamite]
I done this like alot of time when I help the powder ganger mission (easy 2000 or 3000 caps)
But the real question is, how does Caesar know I killed that one Recruit Legionary that one time from a quarter mile away with a rifle with no witnesses and only to complete a quest? Why am I shunned Caesar? *Why?*
Caesar knows all
On the other end of the spectrum, I did a sneak kill on the dude that confiscates your weapons in The Fort and neither the other two legionnaires or Cursor Lucullus seemed to care despite the dude exploding literally next to them.
Idk if all quests tied NPC will guarantee to give or reduce your reputation and karma by killing them, but in Nelson quest, you can still snipe all the Legionaries undetected and you wont shift your status but still gain karma, even if your companions kill them in plain sight, as long as youre undetected, youre good with Legion, but the moment they spotted you, all kill from you and ur friends will count towards ur rep
@@Makco "average day at the fort, guy next to me just fucking exploded"
They have “eyes everywhere” or so they say
What's also interesting about NV reputation is from what I've seen the different factions will have different tolerance levels for actions against them. I killed so many Khans in my playthrough and they still never aggro'd to me by default, but as soon as you begin helping the NCR the Legion sends assassins after you every other night.
I killed Jessup, his gang, and Oscar during a House run. I ended Idolized by the Khans despite never going to Red Rock. Apparently I did something they liked.
@@lazerningayou didn’t attack them. That’s what they liked.
I'm sure you could nuke the Great Khans and if you did one nice thing for them, they'd still thing you're a loose cannon instead of an absolute war criminal.
Iirc there's some third-party drama. Like, screwing over the NCR gives you better rep with the Khan's, or some such thing.
That might be a bug, I remember murdering literally every single Great Khan I could see in Red Rock and Boulder City and for whatever reason none of them ever aggrod even when I went there vilified
They just didn't have social media back in FO3
@Rice Fried Shrimp Eat the baby
@@RiceFriedShrimpseriously what the hell were they on when they made the point lookout main quest
I don't dislike Fallout 3 but New Vegas definitely has the karma system beat.
Kinda. It's still not a good version of it. It's better than 3's, but it also matters less.
@@oneblacksun How does it matter less? The only difference is that in 3 if you have bad karma everyone just hates you for no reason. In New Vegas it's just the factions you have bad reputation with that hate you, it makes way more sense.
@@gooseteeth5455 Reputation has no real bearing on Karma. Karma in NV only matters for some flavour text in the ending slides and three perks that you unlock at level 50. That's it.
@@gooseteeth5455 I think you mixed up reputation with karma.
@@oneblacksun Doesnt Cass leaves Courier if low karma?
new vegas: vaporizing a fiend is good karma, stealing their ammo to do it is evil tho
Prolly some of the leftovers before the time Obsidian scrapped the Fiends from the list oi sub-factions in the game due to limited development time. Someone made a video of NV cut contents and IIRC you could have help the Fiends to take over McCarran from NCR. Other than that there are actual dialogues and voices of the courier's conversation with driver Nephi, Violet and Cookcook still in the game files
I recognize the joke, but no items possessed by the Fiends are flagged as owned. You won't lose karma for taking their stuff.
@@EzraelVio How convenient that the time restraints has been used to excuse literally every design flaw that the game has.
NV fans truly are the MAGA of the Gaming community.
@@skinnykid8524 literally no one in here are complaining lol
@@EzraelVio Nobody said anything about complaining. I'm just pointing out that every time someone brings up something bad about New Vegas, the fancels are quick to bring up that they were working with time constraints. That's a bit sus now ain't it.
*Walks into Vegas*
Mugger: "Give me all of your...Oh its you! Uh, look, I'm sorry!!"
Me: "Oh no, by all means, finish your sentence."
I've been playing more Obsidian games lately. They seem to be dropping good/evil systems entirely and focusing more on having positive or negative reputation with various factions, which is probably a positive move since their factions are almost never all-good or all-evil.
didn't outer worlds have a cartoonishly generic "bad evil corporation" bbeg?
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516 Every faction in The Outer Worlds is morally compromised one way or the other. "The Board" is certainly depicted as the worst of a bad lot, but it is also suggested that by bringing them down, you're following a madman and potentially causing mass starvation.
Regardless, I was comparing it to games that have a good/evil slider for the main character.
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516 At least one of the corporation is competent. It's not so much "corporation bad" than the lack of restraint being a recipe for disaster.
@@LeriHunter Granted that is usually what a "Corporation bad" scenario plays off of, that if corporations didn't have something, whether that be a government or the people having the ability to stop them, they will just not restrain themselves, there is a reason why worker's strikes, regulations, and unions exist.
@@boarfaceswinejaw4516 One corporation was pretty decent by corporation standards, and several rebel groups were portrayed as bumbling.
When I first played new vegas I used to hate the fact that you could never fully recover your reputation, but now I really like it and it makes a lot more sense for the world that you can only ever go back to a neutralish state after making a group hate you, so you can get them to stop attacking you but never actually forgive what you did in the past. Makes consequences for your actions feel really weighty instead of just being able to give water to a homeless guy and the universe being like "well you blew up a town, but you gave water to the homeless so your very good"
Keeping a set of armor from the NCR and Caesar’s Legion (and maybe the Powder Gangers) makes keeping a decent reputation with the various factions somewhat easy.
Wear Legion armor while attacking NCR placements should keep you from loosing reputation with the NCR while wearing your regular gear.
Wear NCR armor while going after the Legion for similar results.
@pyrosplicer85 oh really, I didn't know you could wear a disguise to avoid losing reputation, I thought it was just for belnding in and not getting attacked in a factions base. Thats good to know
I just dislike that every faction knows magically what i am up to all the time. Would be nice that in ceratin scenarios leaving *no* survivors has certain effect.
@PSYMEDIC Caesar explains he has spies on you, so it makes how he knows. However I have no clue how the other factions would know.
FONV: There are 4 factions to side with and it's easy to piss them off except Yes Man.
FO3: There's 1 faction to side with so just give it like 6 hours and they'll forgive everything over and over
The fallout 3 brotherhood pissed me off so much purely because of how boring they were that I would just repeatedly shotgun scribe rothchild and elder lyons in the citadel and literally no one would bat an eye
One of my favourite things about FNV reputation system is that positive and negative reputation is tracked separately. It’s possible to have 100% in both positive and negative reputation, meaning you can’t nuke a town and then just give water to a single beggar to outweigh it, it’s a really clever system that’s way ahead of it’s time, even now!
I freed powder gangers and I got the merciful thug rep cause I kept killing them after it kept saying I was gaining karma
@kaiserfranzjoseph9311Its a flawed system but definitely better than the alternative. Yeah I killed all the boomers, but I gave raquel some missiles so Im a soft hearted devil.
Bravo todd
actually i sided with Goodsprings and because I left the Powder Gangers alone after that, they formed a truce with me?? Oddly enough?? Like they didn't give a shit at all when I went to the prison and got the old sheriff guy back@kaiserfranzjoseph9311
@@Nonxsn yeah that wasn't todd.
He hackin, wackin, and smackin.
Choppin tha meat
my god that song is unbearable lmao
Me: *nukes both NCR and Legion before getting to Vegas so my reputation resets*
What causes me funny is that despite being hundreds of kilometers, they somehow know that you were the one who did it.
I kept killing the Brotherhood in Fo3 for their Gatling Lasers, went to FNV and you could predict what happened then.
(Coffin Dance Meme)
You gave water to surrendering enclave members.
Fo3 karma system: You're going to hell
Fallout 3 will always hold a place in my heart, I do love it so much.
But New Vegas is the much better game, that I will not deny.
Not MUCH , but this games are 50% similiar and 50% very different. Fallout 3 is about great story and atmosphere with lots of side quests with their own original story, NV is about atmosphere ,more story variations, mechanics and replayabillity. Both is legendary games
@@mrboy9658 fallout 3 having great story is the funniest joke i heard during last year
Still shitty gameplay
@@mrboy9658 Nice joke man
One thing I found funny about Fallout 3 is how the karma system isn’t dynamic like in new vegas, all the gains and losses are pre-set, meaning you can unwarranted, blow a particular someone’s brain into pure gristle and the game will reward you for it bc “oh well they were bad anyway” despite you not knowing that whatsoever. Mr Burke is one example. Megaton loves it when you kill him with zero cause because they telekinetically knew he was there to blow the place up
that'd be telepathic not telekinetic.
I loved Fallout 3 and still do.
But whenever I first played NV it's depth amazed me, just plainly superior game.
I kind of like fallout 3 map more than nv. I also love Fallout 3 footstep sound more than Nv. But nv has done everything better
I managed to get vilified by the Legion while wearing their own armor during the Nelson Hostage quest, and when everything was done, I took it off and my rep with the Legion is back to Merciful Thug, and it never goes back to Vilified when I put it back on, as if they will never see you as the same person twice unless you do it in front of them
I also like how with Merciful Thug, you can enter Legion camps no problem(Namely Cottonwood Cove), but you still get jumped by assasins
I love what you did for Fallout 4 reputation at 0:32
I destroyed the Citadel after Broken Steel and surprisingly they didn't forgive me after waiting an hour.
Everyone seems to forget that obsidiant created fallout new vegas after fallout 3 and they looked at all the things fallout 3 did bad and made them good. Both games are good, just that one learned from the other
New Vegas doesn’t have anything to owe to 3. All the good parts of new Vegas are because it followed the design philosophy of fallout 1 and 2. The things it took from 3 (the models, textures, engine, gun play, animation.) are the worst parts of new Vegas. Its not better because it takes from fallout 3 it’s better despite it.
@@NopeNothingD9 And to top it off, people loves New vegas over 3 and what does the shitbag of a company Bethesda do? They literally make Fallout 3.2. It has the EXACT same plot as 3 only: Find Dad/Son (Father), Destroy "evil" metal men (Synths or Brotherhood) and done. The Karma system they removed entirely and making basically 50% of all people "Essential NPC's". Nothing you do even has an impact on the world unless it's a "Bethesda quest". The Dialogue is utter garbage with zero roleplay value. And let's not forget the "Morality compass" they love so much to have.
The Only thing, one thing that saved 4, is the gunplay and gameplay aspects. Base building and such. That's it.
Bethesda should stop making Fallout completely and give the rights to Obsidian to make the games from now on. They can just hire Obsidian like they did with New Vegas and then publish the games. No need to "Sell the rights" just give them the Developer rights.
@@seriousshitload529 Unfortunately most of the manpower is gone from Obsidian, if you want to see a modern Fallout-esque Obsidian game, look at Outer Worlds. A pretty ok game but nothing to write home about. Fortunately they work/ed on other good projects.
@@NopeNothingD9 This. The only things they got from 3 to New Vegas were props and objects.
Everyone will agree that we basically got the game (FNW), it's already a miracle. These days, that wouldn't happen.
There is that person I need to talk to…… they move at the last second as I click and I steal something.
I had to restart 40 minutes of gameplay because I stole a glass on accident and my only real save was an auto save from leaving the building after I stole😭😭😭
The karma system in Fallout 3 is much worse, as it is "overall" and very "general" so when you do something bad, all your overall factions are affected and think your evil; however, in Fallout New Vegas there are different factions so that if you do something bad with them, there's always another faction to go to. For example, killing people in Rivet City vs killing people in Goodsprings. Also the karma system in Fallout New Vegas is somewhat irrelevant.
Fallout 3 karma is ass, you get rewarded good karma for basically helping a girl rape a boy.
I mean yeah but that also has its down side. Like I can kill everyone in good springs, Novac, Pimm and then rock up to Helios 1 and the NCR guards will treat me as a saint that can do no wrong.
Personally if they mixed the two together and polished it more that could make for better roleplay. Sure the NCR will ‘like me’ and know I’ve helped them. But I’m also a mass murder that’s killed heap of defiles less civilians.
If they were to combine that with the fallout 2 event perks that could get for like eating someone that stay around no matter if would make for an amazing reputation system
@@Gdsryrox There's a mod where if you are good, the Omerta's send hitmen after you, and if you are evil, bounty hunters and mercenaries get sent by the NCR to come get you. It also gives you perks based on your karma level.
@@DeadManSinging1 Why do the Omertas send assassins after you?
Start Nv
Do lonesome road first
Nuke both ncr and legion
Maximum negitive reputation
Walk into the tops
Don't even kill Benny
Ncr and legion: We're sure it was an accident. Can we still be friends??? ❤
Deliberately exploiting DLC oversights is not the same thing.
@@Idazmi7 ua-cam.com/video/pWdd6_ZxX8c/v-deo.html
Fallout 3 be like:
"Hey look it's that guy that shot up the whole marketplace and stole everything. Should we like, kill him?"
"Nah bro, that was last week"
Dont forget about the NCR and Legion reputation exploit when you first come to Vegas lmao, after meeting Benny and exiting The Tops, you will be greeted by NCR soldier and Vulpes from Legion, both of them informing that each faction leaders want to meet you, at this point, your bad reputation will be reseted to Neutral, no matter how bad you are towards them
That means as long you dont visit Vegas, you can complete Lonesome Road dlc first, nuke both factions, slaughter all of their camps, and just go to Vegas to complete the main quests, and they will act like the nuke never happened at all
I agree. That's really silly.
What obsidian should've done is if your negative reputation level is equivalent to "Hated", the NCR or Legion will issue you an ultimatum.
"Work for us, and your crimes will be forgiven. Decline, and you won't see the next day. You have 6 hours."
It advances the "point of no return" for those two factions where you can no longer continue to work with both of them. Forcing you to pick a side immediately by either coming along with Vulpes or that NCR MP, or visiting Caesar or Ambassador Crocker ASAP.
@kaiserfranzjoseph9311its quite easy, if you do the other DLCs first like OWB youll be showered in XP
@kaiserfranzjoseph9311 It is not so difficult, Honest Hearts begins at level 10, and you will be 27-30 for when you finish the third. (or 25-27 if you have skilled trait)
Fallout 3 reputation system was a bit BS
You get punished for either being good or bad
Fallout NV: here is a multilayered reputation system that tracks each faction separately, as well as your overall fame across the Mojave, and you have to be careful with what clothing you wear because faction clothing is considered as allegiance or may be interpreted as a spy.
Fallout 3:
if option1 then rewardKarma 1
if option2 then rewardKarma -1
Atleast three dog acknowledge your existence mr new vegas: so Cesar is dead we don't know who did it Three dog: you monster you nuked a whole city and murder a ton of good people
Well it makes sense. How would anyone know if they didn't see you. Only the legion would know but they wouldn't want to tell anyone.
Breaking Bad + FNV? Thank you, thank you. But yeah, Fallout 3's vanilla mechanics in this regard are almost like GTA wanted cooldown.
ua-cam.com/video/Y5iZ6fYGggU/v-deo.html
that moment when you go from helping the brotherhood out of the dark to imediately initiating the bunker self-destruct because Paladin Ramos looked at you funny
The reputation is very good but it really sucks as soon as you get past the point of no return in Yes Man’s run. I’m beloved by the khans, recognized as a paladin and brother by the Brotherhood of Steel, and have perfectly good karma (I’m literally Jesus in fallout) but it all goes to waste in the end abd there’s no special treatment for players who did things like maybe the way I did.
The real reward was the friends we made along the way!
Maintaining neutral Karma by robbing everyone blind after helping them
I loved how in 3, your reputation wasn’t a stat, but people would comment on your actions throughout the wastes. Especially Three Dog. Really felt cool as a kid hearing the news talk about my character saving the wasteland. I also struggled with the fire ant quest and felt so guilty that I didn’t figure out how to get the best ending
Me when i steal the ammo and supplies of settlements that THEY'LL NEVER USE in order to help me get through life
I shot a Powder Ganger in new vegas and the game gave me karma. I looted his weapon stash and the game took it away again. Such is life.
New Vegas: Your actions matter.
Fallout 3: Reputation? What's that?
The reputation system is literally the best way I've ever seen the player's actions impact the game world. It's so well done I have no idea how it hasn't been copied to death by now
Fallout 2 also had faction reputations and a more complicated morality system, Bethesda just got rid of all of that and let you nuke an entire town and then give bottled water to a homeless guy and everyone loves you again.
Eh, not really. I didn’t even notice either was a thing until right before going to the oil rig. If anything it’s even weirder because certain choices like becoming a slaver or killing Stump Jumping Jethro’s kid out in the middle of nowhere essentially grants you infinite negative karma and makes the whole system redundant outside of losing all your companions.
worth remembering that the last fallout game before fallout 3 was fallout brotherhood of steel, which nearly slew the franchise until bethesda came along.
@@MrCritic77 It's actually not weird if you're a slaver or a child killer you should be hated forever. Making choices that awful should ruin your entire game. What's weird is fallout 3 where you can nuke an innocent town enslave children and do all the evil stuff you want and get back all your lost karma by giving bottled water to a homeless guy, making the whole system pointless outside of a few lines of dialogue from your dad.
@@modelmajorpita So for your first point, for where they’re placed, it really shouldn’t. Becoming a slaver is basically a beginners trap and not being able to atone for the decision makes the role play and the karma system of the game feel more limited and less in your control as the player. 3 fixes this issue by including more world-building situations that build off the decision to destroy Megaton, for example. Doing it, you lose a bunch of side quests including the main quest if you’re not careful, you lose a companion, you get a new encounter in the form of Megaton survivors, and a bunch of new dialogue from NPCs, not just Dad. The karma system still doesn’t play much of a role but you can appreciate the weight of the decision more because of how the world is affected by what you do. Also, you’re not wrong about giving water to beggars. You get +50 points for each bottle of water and it’s +1000 for max positive karma and -1000 for max negative karma so 40 bottles of purified water will completely offset your negative reputation. I think a +5 bonus is more appropriate. But that’s a pretty tiny nitpick considering you can count on a single hand how many beggars there are.
@@MrCritic77what quests do you lose? Moira? She's alive and became a ghoul.
The megaton refugees? Those are random encounters. I've nuked megaton and have never seen them once.
The only named NPCs I've seen acknowledge Megaton being nuked is Liam Neeson where he's "disappointed in you" and 3dog where he accuses you of blowing the shithole up.
You removed the chains that equalised me with the other ballet dancers. Removed my brain handicap that kept all the horrible but true thoughts away. This was a huge mistake I should have never opened my mouth at all
reputation system in new vegas it's really good until it bugs and you loose everything and then you have to use the console to restore
The outcasts dont get down like that
One thing I like more about Fallout 3’s karma system over new vegas is that in new vegas you can do one bad deed in one area and people on the other side of the map will somehow know what you did and hate for it,
But in fallout 3, it makes sense that people across the wasteland know of the various deeds you do because you can hear Three Dog informing everyone about it over galaxy radio
Fallout 3 moral system is FUBAR. It is stupidly simple - for example, you can whack Megaton with nuclear blast and then give about a dozen bottles of water to a beggar near Rivet City to outweigh this. Again. Destroying the town and its residents with one of the worst ways possible and giving water for free to ONE single lowlife beggar. That's, in F3 eyes, makes a perfect karmic balance. I don't speak about F3 reputation system because it is absent there. FNV, of course, does this on entirely other level (F1-2 level, to be specifically, + some tweaks like mixed reputations).
I have never heard the word fubar used before today. Thanks for teaching me anew word
@@Notimportant3737 it's an abbreviation :)
F(reak)ed Up Beyond All Repairs/Recognition
Something really bad, be it the situation, condition or something else
@@Notimportant3737 I saw that in the title of some "student girl goes FUBAR" videos😏
I was a bit confused when I massacred the Legion slave camp only for one of them to stop shooting and I find that I have a Mixed relationship with them
It’s my first time playing new Vegas, and it makes me glad seeing how karma works in 3, because I don’t know what this affects in NV so I try my best to not do anything bad
Vaporizing megaton is spared by giving some dude water
Fallout 3 is gonna like: Dude, follow your script. It makes no sense for you to shoot us, so we will pretend that is how it went down.
Fallout New Vegas: The road to hell is paved with good intentions, with no ‘good ending’, whatever you choose will reflect your own personal values.
Fallout 3: “Brotherhood is GOOD!” *roared the monkey as his fellow monkeys cheered him on* “Enclave is BAD! Be bad guy? NO! OOGA BOOGA OOGA BOOGAAAAAAAAA!”
Right, because the Enclave had NEVER been portrayed as the evil faction in any Fallout game beforehand.
@@octodaddy877BoS and Enclave shouldn't even exist in Fallout 3.
The BoS was already dying out by the time of Fallout 2, and the Enclave was annihilated by the end of Fallout 2.
Bethesda only brought them back for iCoNoGrApHy and they didn't even make up a good reason for them to be on the East Coast. Let alone write these two factions well enough to be suitable for a choices and consequences heavy dialogue focused role playing game.
@@DJWeapon8They gave good reason for both of the factions to be on the East Coast lol. Its made quite clear that the BoS only suffered because of the Enclaves presence in the west, and with the Oil Rig gone their range was very limited. And back to the Enclave, it would be surprising if they DIDNT set up a base in the nations capital, considering the entire origin of the faction to begin with.
@@LucyWest370 iCoNoGrApHy is not a good reason.
But I'll bite.
The Brotherhood of Steel are relatively small isolationist groups. These chapters, even combined, have neither the manpower nor the logistical capability to *walk 3000 miles in unknown hostile territory and treacherous terrain that are the middle states of the US.* Their xenophobic ideology would mean that they'd rather die than accept new recruits in mass numbers to bolster their forces. Their technophilic ideology would also have them plant roots in those middle states to gather up high technology there in the immediate area, further reducing their capabilities to walk to DC.
The Enclave?
The US top government evacuated because they knew it would get *nuked to hell and back.*
Are you seriously going to stay in your house because "its your house" despite knowing full well that its going to be burned to ash down to the foundations including you?
@@DJWeapon8 Ok yes Ill admit that its stupid because “Iconography” but there are very good explanations for both.
Firstly, the Brotherhood’s main goal is to take control of every single piece of technology they deem as dangerous and keep it out of the hands of those they dont deem fit. Considering the first thing the BoS do upon arriving at the capital is take the Pentagon, the United States’ defense building, Id say that perfectly in character for the faction, plus we know theyve moved out east before and have bases in Chicago and whatnot.
Secondly, Bethesda did give an explanation for the Enclave, as President Eden said he was the highest ranking member of the Enclave alive and told all of the survivors from Navarro to move East so they could rebuild. While yes this is also kind of contrived, at the very least its an explanation that makes sense.
If there are two groups that should be fighting over the remnants of the U.S capital, it should be the Brotherhood and Enclave. Plus, the Enclave’s plan was to go to space, its very likely a good number of them were unable to relocate to the Oil rig in time before the great war.
But as per usual all of this gets thrown out the window in Fallout 4.
Vs: You have committed crimes against Skyrim and her people. What say you in your defense?!
Fallout New Vegas's NPC be like : "losses reputation by helping a village of mutants by killing a bunch of guns for hire"
Courier : my reputation is ruined
Even the brotherhood agrees killing the brotherhood is a-ok
literally every bethesda fallout game feels like a missed opportunity for something cool. The inner enclave conflict of autumn vs eden would have been dope if you could side with autumn since he actually doesn't want to genocide the wasteland
In all fairness, New Vegas was the first game to implement a faction system that allowed you to get different endings, an idea Bethesda liked so much they copied it to a T in Fallout 4 to varying levels of success.
@@LucyWest370 yea thats the first thing i noticed is 4 clear endings just with factions swapped out and minutemen instead of yes man
I came here for funny memes and now I found debates about if the enclave (the guys who tried to you know, kill everyone with a fucking virus) are good guys
Me: nukes the Colorado and the entire legion area to hell in the lonesome road DLC. NCR Fame Gained. *Still not able to get the key to the ranger shack near black mountain.*
"Good to see you."
My fav moment from new vegas.
Killed all or the freeside followers members.
Go to the other follower outpost.
Courier: can i join the followers?
follower:no
lol i offed the entirety of recruits and soldiers in that area and no one gave a damn about it
I will never let go that killing Moriarty is consider evil somehow 🙄
Gotta say... for all the positives of FNV...
People really like exaggerating tf out of a simple system in poor attempts to make them legendary...
I’ll never claim F3 is flawless or has a better system. But FNV literally allows you to nuke a nation and still allie with them. The reputation system really wasn’t all that great and is ripe for exploitation.
Well, time to brace for incoming hate reply’s.
Fallout New Vegas logic: gains karma from killing powder gangers proceeds to lose karma when looting their camp
I lost karma for freeing the slaves at Cottonwood Cove
Combat shotguns goes *POWW* 💥
Not sure why they maintained the regular karma system at all in New Vegas--they should have just removed it. IDK why but even when I sided with the legion and committed unspeakable acts of horror, it was hard to *not* end the game with good Karma. It didn't help that killing the always hostile Fiends resulted in Good Karma.
Like yeah, I totally killed the fiends out of a sense of altruism, it couldn't possibly have been out of sheer necessity.
Agreed. The Karma system in New Vegas was largely vestigial. The only NPC I know that react to your Karma is Cass. She'll leave your ass if you're evil.
That said. The game should still keep track of how many you kill in general and give you a unique "Trait" like how killing 1000 things gives you the "Lord Death" perk that slightly increases your damage.
For example. If you kill 1000 things, Lanius acknowledges your bloodthirsty nature and will lock you into fighting him regardless of you having 100 Speech to convince him to leave Vegas for now. Saying something along the lines of: "Your brutality has painted the sands of the Mojave red with the blood of your victims. And now you seek to prove your strength by besting the Legate of the Legion. Very well, I accept."
You can reply you don't want to fight and just want to talk. But Lanius just dismisses you saying: "No. The trail of destruction you created shows you are incapable of diplomacy, only violence. Proof that those outside the Legion create dissolutes like you. And as Legate of the Legion, it is now become my moral task to end you."
And then he smacks you with sword.
Tbf I'm Vilified against both Caesar and NCR and neither attack me, Idk if either out of respect, fear, or Obsidian's programming.
Fallout New Vegas Karma: Oh? You massacred Goodsprings, Nipton, Novac, and even Aeroside for some reason for no reason? Ah its all good bro, you killed a few fiends.
Fo3 Karma: You… you blew up an entire fucking settlement you bastard. You are going to be hunted across the wasteland, you will always have eyes on your back- what the hell would your father think?
Disingenuous.
Both 3 and New Vegas let you easily redeem evil karma. With Fallout 3 being the easiest of the two games by letting you offset the evil karma nuking of a town full of (retarded) innocents by simply donating bottles of water to beggars.
The Reputation System covers that, karma is pretty much a vestigial system replaced by reputation.
Also Nipton is already wiped out before you get to it, have you even Played New Vegas or did you just look up the names of the settlements on the wiki?
@@benito1620 You can still kill two of the residents of Nipton. Like the first home you can enter you can find a guy named Boxcars. Theres also Swanson
"you nuked an entire city? you're so horrible, an absolute mon.. oh, you donated 50 water bottles to a homeless dude? nah, you're all good"
@@mcarrowtime7095 aint nobody even collects water in Fallout 3, that is much harder than killing a few fiends
I mean yea but this isn’t a good example of the Karma system in FO3. It’s works better as a somewhat more over all system and your interaction with NPC. One of my current Fo3 characters is a mercanary thats middle of the road karma and does jobs for caps above morality. And 3 Dog make a note of this saying that I’d do anything for a pay check over the radio. Also slavers and other factions alike tolerate me.
Meanwhile sure NV system is more diverse but it’s also limited. I can go around fee side and Novak and smaller settlements. Brutally kill everyone by the NCR will still love me despite being a mass murder.
I think the best way would to combine the two. Have a general Karma meter to
Reflect your world wide general reputation, if you are a bad person or good and have specific faction relation on top of it.
There’s a mod that adds the reputation system for 3, but i got it for TTW so im not sure if theres one strictly for 3.
It just works
damn this is so awesome. Now how about the Karma system in NV compared to 3?
to be fair there was no witnesses
Bethesda don't deserve to be making fallout, not even close
"Reputation" in fallout 3 doesn't really exist other than good or bad karma basically sooooo weird comparison lol
Idk why but when I play Fallout 3 i can only play it for a little while before I go back to New Vegas instead.
that’s why new vegas hits different
it's not a good game!
I got bored on new vegas, and i did want to start fallout 3, but well... the fucking game doesn't even start on windows 11 right now.
You have to get a mod that disables games for windows live.
@@EnclaveChadthere's many fix videos for that
Orbital strike the citadel
The reputation system is great, but the karmic system makes no sense. I will wipe out entire towns of innocent people but because my killmonger counter has slightly more fiends in it, Im suddenly Saint Patrick? Yeh its a bit iffy
Too bad new Vegas karma is shit compared to fallout 3, but at least they make factions reputation to compensate.
actual lobotomite opinion
I thought the NV reputation system failed to achieve its intended goals, it merely allowed players to kill allies for fun. It should have been better integrated with the clothing system, but it was way too buggy
This comment section truly encapsulates the Fallout Fandom as a whole.
proof New Vegas does literally everything better than 3
In a way, Bethesda actually suck. But I still love Fallout 3 and weirdly Fallout 4 as well, but FNV is light years ahead for me.
Fallout 3: You stole a spoon? Well, you better pray to whatever god will listen as you will be seeing them soon.
New Vegas upon leaving the Tops casino: You may have nuked the both of us, but we'll forgive you and wipe away any transgressions we have against you.
I likw how he misses that bot like 6 times so he just gives up and leaves
Bro Bethesda with their drone NPCs that feel like sock puppets. And it's every game too, every game since Morrowind.
Fallout 4: 💀
New Vegas's karma system is useless, because killing "evil" karma npcs gives you good karma, and "evil" karma npc's are the majority of hostile npcs on the map, so also the majority of random encounters, including ghouls, fiends, the legion, and many of the npcs of the strip casinos. So, going on a genocide everyone run (one of the selling points of New Vegas) will still get you positive karma. So one playthrough, because I was tired of being pushed toward the main story questline at every location, I killed every npc of every faction, and ate every single one of their corpses, and stole every owned item I could find, and still showed as "very good." Why? Because of this "righteous murder" mechanic.
Easy to make a better game when Bethesda did 99% of the heavy lifting.
Heavy Glitching* fixed it for you.
You can really feel how little they cared putting together Fallout 3 as opposed to New Vegas. Even Fallout 4 misses the mark majorly, ruining some really interesting parts of the game like power armour training for fuel cells.
Power Armour sucks in 3 and New Vegas, 4 is much more like the original.
4 is objectively a better game, gameplay, smoothness, fun costomization, you can fucking RUN. you’re all just nostalgic for NV
@@kylothy487 New Vegas' strengths come in writing, characters, and roleplaying. Those things are important, yes, but not as important as gameplay itself.
@kylothy487 Whats smooth about FO4? It's still clunky. The sprinting "mechanic" adds virtually 0 to the game. And also, you're obviously a console player
@@emperorpalpatine1469 No need to be so confrontational, friend.
I still hate the tenpenny tower quest because of the stupid karma system in fallout 3
What was the music used?
Yeah come back to me whenever your radio stations are synced up to your karma system, and it isn't stuck playing the same five shitty songs over and over again on perhaps the most unbalanced narration-to-music display in modern gaming.
people dont get that Fallout 3 is bad as much as Fallout 4
Bethesda fundamentally misunderstood the BoS so fucking hard is laughable.
They are the most obsessive hoarders in the entire Fallout universe, they care for NO ONE but themselves, they LITERALLY BELIEVE it would be fine if everyone but them dies.
They are zealots of technology, but not by trying to understand it, they worship it to an unhealthy degree.
The enclave while they are the cartoonishly evil baddies which i didn't like in Fallout 2, at least they had their reasons, far crazier than the Master in F1 ever had but they had their reasons nonetheless, they serve as a critique of USA Imperialism.
But Bethesda instead believes the Enclave HAS to be cartoonishly evil always.
Y'know Lyon's Brotherhood is completely different due to his expedition of the Pitt, he basically had a change of heart and gathered some followers to help out the Capital wasteland, while some people in his group were dissatisfied and thought he was betraying the ways of how the brotherhood operates, they branched off and became the Outcasts and their the other group of brotherhood that are in the capital and they are continuing what they do in the west.
Ну да.... Bethesda дураки что не сделали основную фракцию из нашего основного квеста которая нам помогает по ОСНОВНОМУ СЮЖЕТУ враждебной. Отстой.
real