Oof, what an amazing episode- but very hard to watch. Decided to put Mat and Rand meeting as the profile so not to flood YT with more sad... definitely the 'highest point' in this episode! What did you think of it? Where does it rank in your episode list so far? Do you think they went too far, or was it just enough to convey what Egwene goes through?
One thing I like about this season is I'm getting the feeling that they are trying to pull the story closer and closer to where it actually is supposed to be. It gives me faith that season 1 would have ended much closer had the actor who was playing Mat hadn't left.
I agree. At least the Eye is real strange on the books anyway, and never comes up again haha In either case, this is just much better done- so the changes are much easier to take IMO
@@foretellingprime Also most of the changes feel like whelp kinda have to navigate back to where everyone is supposed to be. Like I feel like Lan meeting Rand at the end of this chapter w/ the Amerlin also in town = some Fal Dara scenes that were missed coming up.
I love how, as a book reader, whenever you say "I can't get more into that because spoilers" I know exactly what you mean. The show is doing an amazing job this season of setting up some really big things.
I agree 100%. I feel like their vision is alot clearsr- probably aided without as many restrictions and disruptions. And yeah, the spoilers are hard to avoid. Let's just say- I have alot of stuff I said left in the editing table haha And thanks for watching!
yeah that first season was rough i just hope this is a big turning point in showing all the good stuff jordan had in the books and not spending up so much other stuff this writing staff has come up with
Great episode. This season is such a huge improvement over s1. Legit excited about the future of this series now, really hope it gets picked up for season 4 as we are just getting to the good stuff
Yes, the musical score is "hitting it!" I especially liked how Egwene's theme varied in energy and motion and emotion depending on the scene (kennel window, burning tree, Renna beat down). Loving Lorne Balfe's work on this series! Enjoying your reactions, too. Nicely done!
I listen to the score pretty much none stop! Lorne Balfe has created one of the music unique soundtracks I have heard! Hoping that song is in a Vol 3 if we get one! Thanks for watching!!
Great to see your review! Totally agree that this episode was 9.5/10 and I teared up at the same points your did. It's tough to watch. I hadn't considered that it might be more easy to push past Egwene's traumatic scenes in the books, but you make a good point. Also I hadn't considered that Lanfear might be pushing Mat to go with Rand via Min. That would make total sense given that she operates in Tel'aran'rhiod. I also can't wait for more "together" scenes for the Emond's Field Five. Looking forward to more of your reactions for the coming episodes.
Best episode of the series, by far, despite the brutality. My expectations for the last 2 episodes are extremely high as a result. Amazing acting by Madeleine Madden and Xelia Mendes-Jones. Also, the a'dam "needs to be healed"... hello, Nynaeve! The only thing that has been disappointing this year is Lan's story points. I get the feeling they had no clue what to do with his character (ie: what would Lan add to Moiraine's story other than stand silent in a corner?), going so far as to (in a not popular change) make Moiraine "stilled" to push his separate plot points. Also, given they wanted to give Alana a bigger role in the series, they created the convoluted (mostly 99% boring or dumb - like wondering if he is a dark friend) story that has dragged down season 2. Which is too bad, because Lan is such a great character, and I can only hope that there is some form of payoff for sitting through all this....
Yeah, I do wish the Lan storyline was much better. It is well done and acted for what it is... it just isn't great IMO They should have given Lan something more active to do as a side quest if they wanted to break Moiraine and Lan up
Have been slowly working my way through all of the WoT reviews since episode 6 dropped and glad that yours popped up on my timeline. Really enjoyed your reactions and breakdown at the end - interesting thoughts on the double bluff/betrayal Lanfear might be doing by twisting with Min's visions. I sort of hope they don't do that as it casts a bit of doubt on Min's foretellings always being true, which is quite a bit thing in the books. But you definitely could be onto something there. Egwene far and away stole the show this episode though. Brutal scenes, but impossible to look away. Cautiously optimistic for the final two episodes. Man I wish there were more than 8 episodes a season...
Thanks very much! Glad you enjoyed!! ***Book spoilers ahead*** And i hear you about the foretellings- but either way, we know Rand doesn't die, so it will be a fake out if some sort. Maybe she learns how to tell the difference? I tried looking back to see if there is any visual difference between the two, and maybe s1 had more sparkles lol?
Not the easiest episode to watch, but i found the scenes in the books disturbing to read as well. Some fantastic performances in this episode. Madeleine Madden portrayed the agony of being enslaved perfectly and i think Natasha is absolutely killing lanfear. You can see her lust, jealousy, arrogance and underlying instability without her having to say a word.
The subtly that Natasha puts into her performances- every eye flick has meaning. You can tell she is 100% in on the role. And Madeline's performance was excellent- might be the best in the series so far. The looks she gave at the end were haunting... and convays every emotion it needed to!! Thanks for watching!!
The dusting thing happened in season 1 before Lanfear was free when Ishy was talking to Rand in episode 8. It is worth noting when Ishy is in charge of a dream things glitch occasionally because he isn't as good at it. When it is Lanfear the dream is perfect like it is reality with no glitches.
Spoiler Maybe Min only sees someone who looks like Rand and is stabbed by Mat! Ishy or Lanfear…. Remember the Dream with Ishy and Lanfear? I think I remember Rand fighting Ishy within the Dreams while beeing really there.😅
@@sandrat3690 Yeah, I've seen multiple plausible theories on how it could be manipulated/faked, and I must say, if that is the case I love it! Min's power is nearly untouchable in the books, the only weakness being that she doesn't know what all her visions mean. It'd be so cool if her power can be hijacked to an extent.
@37:45 the dusting effect is used by Ishamael earlier on (might even be in season 1) so its not exclusive to Lanfear. Might just be a way to demonstrate traveling in TAR
Could very well be- he doest it in Rands dream in episode 2- but could still fall under lanfear at that point. There is a similar effect when he is released in s1e8- but I think that is different enough. But you are most likely right- fun to theorize though
If it were an Aiel Wise One who was collared, I think they would be able to resist the breaking. They would still scream and cry from the pain that Renna inflicts of course, but they would nevertheless always refuse to cooperate after the suldam stops inflicting the pain. I recall the books mentioning how Aiel cope with torture in one book, it's almost like they dissociate the pain they suffer from the decisions that they make.
Very true, they embrace the pain knowing that what they suffer is much less than what their people do, and that their pain is nothing compared to the larger scale. That sad, I am unsure how it goes in the books after months and months of this treatment
They would last longer than most, but the Seanchan can control the level of it. They would break too, either submitting... or they would fracture mentally. The device itself stimulates pain centers, but does not destroy nerves to do it. They can maintain the pain for as long as necessary. I'm all for respecting WIse Ones, but after a certain point with these things, it's bravado to say you would endure.
I think Siuan does something similar in book 2, right? Is the sword actually a weapon if it won't be used as one? The Oath is for 1 person to kill another, and this wasn't going to be used for that
@@foretellingprime That's really stretching the definition of 'making a weapon'. The oaths mean actually crafting a permanent physical object that is a power-wrought weapon, like the blademaster blades that will never etch or dull. Making a jedi lightsaber burning sword - that's just using the one power. I think they may be exaggerating a bit with the 'every single one'. The novices and accepted CAN still lie.
@@uuamenator I am sure that is the intent of the oath- but if a pitcher of water can be a weapon, than so can a sword of air haha. The Oath has no restriction on duration, and an Air Sword would still be a weapon imo
@@foretellingprime No, wait, now that I think about it, did Siuan Sanche actually make a sword of one power in the books, when she was teaching Eg and Ny on the way to Tar Valon? I can't recall. I also recalled the wording of the oath - it had a qualifying "for one man to kill another" so if a woman, or the aes sedai herself does it it should be ok? Also, remember, the oaths don't know the objective reality, they only know the subjective truth that the aes sedai herself believes, so if they don't believe this applies - it doesn't.
@@uuamenator I think man is just used instead of mankind. Also seems weird they would technically be able to make like... shadowspawn weapons lol? And for sure- I think Siuan does as well which is why I don't think this counts as breaking the Oath
@@foretellingprime my husband has never read the books - he hates spoilers but broke and asked how she gets payback. He still a bit annoyed I won’t tell him.
Maybe something was supposed to happen in Cairhien? Or maybe have Mat reject Rand like Rand he did (so far) It would be playing 4d chess, but Rand saying "alone it is" was real sad to hear
I honestly appreciate this Season even more than the last. Things are improving. But...there are still some rough editing/transition issues and sometimes I don't feel the "reality" of the world like I did with Game of Thrones. Biggest issue is that they seem to have made most of the male characters kind of secondary and neutered. Lan's character has really suffered in this series. Daniel is a great actor, but the writers have really made him kind of mopey, soft and sensitive--and the show could really use a main male character who is stolid, powerful and imposing. I think it is due to the composition of the writers in the series (Rafe and mostly women). Nothing wrong with a majority of women writing, but they need to add a talented male writer who can offer insight into writing a strong male character.
I think it was a conscious choice for Lan, but I disagree with the direction they took. I agree in s1, especially episode 7- he was too emotive. I think this season he has been alot more stoic where he should be. I don't think he is mopy, they just gave him a lame duck storyline to follow- and that is not what Lan as a character should be doing. They took away his agency in this subplot, and it just feels wrong for the character. I am sure they are more than capable of writing Lan- I really don't think it is hard... but they wanted to add more to him, and in doing so- changed him into something he is not (IMO).
Oof, what an amazing episode- but very hard to watch. Decided to put Mat and Rand meeting as the profile so not to flood YT with more sad... definitely the 'highest point' in this episode!
What did you think of it? Where does it rank in your episode list so far? Do you think they went too far, or was it just enough to convey what Egwene goes through?
One thing I like about this season is I'm getting the feeling that they are trying to pull the story closer and closer to where it actually is supposed to be. It gives me faith that season 1 would have ended much closer had the actor who was playing Mat hadn't left.
I agree. At least the Eye is real strange on the books anyway, and never comes up again haha
In either case, this is just much better done- so the changes are much easier to take IMO
@@foretellingprime Also most of the changes feel like whelp kinda have to navigate back to where everyone is supposed to be. Like I feel like Lan meeting Rand at the end of this chapter w/ the Amerlin also in town = some Fal Dara scenes that were missed coming up.
@@OlmanWillo my thought as well- I am hoping we get some Lan talking about Honour... maybe sheathing the blade?
@@foretellingprime exactly. I think they would have started s2 with that if Mat's actor hadn't left
I love how, as a book reader, whenever you say "I can't get more into that because spoilers" I know exactly what you mean. The show is doing an amazing job this season of setting up some really big things.
I agree 100%. I feel like their vision is alot clearsr- probably aided without as many restrictions and disruptions.
And yeah, the spoilers are hard to avoid. Let's just say- I have alot of stuff I said left in the editing table haha
And thanks for watching!
yeah that first season was rough i just hope this is a big turning point in showing all the good stuff jordan had in the books and not spending up so much other stuff this writing staff has come up with
Great episode. This season is such a huge improvement over s1. Legit excited about the future of this series now, really hope it gets picked up for season 4 as we are just getting to the good stuff
Rafe was a bit cheeky about s4 asking us to asl bozos... wondering if that is a soft confirmation haha
Yes, the musical score is "hitting it!" I especially liked how Egwene's theme varied in energy and motion and emotion depending on the scene (kennel window, burning tree, Renna beat down). Loving Lorne Balfe's work on this series! Enjoying your reactions, too. Nicely done!
I listen to the score pretty much none stop! Lorne Balfe has created one of the music unique soundtracks I have heard!
Hoping that song is in a Vol 3 if we get one!
Thanks for watching!!
Discovered Lorne Balfe through Mission Impossible: Fallout’s soundtrack. He is super talented!!
@@gonaye1 was His Dark Materials for me. Great album!
Great to see your review! Totally agree that this episode was 9.5/10 and I teared up at the same points your did. It's tough to watch. I hadn't considered that it might be more easy to push past Egwene's traumatic scenes in the books, but you make a good point. Also I hadn't considered that Lanfear might be pushing Mat to go with Rand via Min. That would make total sense given that she operates in Tel'aran'rhiod. I also can't wait for more "together" scenes for the Emond's Field Five. Looking forward to more of your reactions for the coming episodes.
Thanks very much for watching! Glad to hear you liked it!!
Best episode of the series, by far, despite the brutality. My expectations for the last 2 episodes are extremely high as a result.
Amazing acting by Madeleine Madden and Xelia Mendes-Jones.
Also, the a'dam "needs to be healed"... hello, Nynaeve!
The only thing that has been disappointing this year is Lan's story points. I get the feeling they had no clue what to do with his character (ie: what would Lan add to Moiraine's story other than stand silent in a corner?), going so far as to (in a not popular change) make Moiraine "stilled" to push his separate plot points. Also, given they wanted to give Alana a bigger role in the series, they created the convoluted (mostly 99% boring or dumb - like wondering if he is a dark friend) story that has dragged down season 2. Which is too bad, because Lan is such a great character, and I can only hope that there is some form of payoff for sitting through all this....
Yeah, I do wish the Lan storyline was much better. It is well done and acted for what it is... it just isn't great IMO
They should have given Lan something more active to do as a side quest if they wanted to break Moiraine and Lan up
Have been slowly working my way through all of the WoT reviews since episode 6 dropped and glad that yours popped up on my timeline. Really enjoyed your reactions and breakdown at the end - interesting thoughts on the double bluff/betrayal Lanfear might be doing by twisting with Min's visions. I sort of hope they don't do that as it casts a bit of doubt on Min's foretellings always being true, which is quite a bit thing in the books. But you definitely could be onto something there.
Egwene far and away stole the show this episode though. Brutal scenes, but impossible to look away. Cautiously optimistic for the final two episodes. Man I wish there were more than 8 episodes a season...
Thanks very much! Glad you enjoyed!!
***Book spoilers ahead***
And i hear you about the foretellings- but either way, we know Rand doesn't die, so it will be a fake out if some sort. Maybe she learns how to tell the difference? I tried looking back to see if there is any visual difference between the two, and maybe s1 had more sparkles lol?
Not the easiest episode to watch, but i found the scenes in the books disturbing to read as well. Some fantastic performances in this episode. Madeleine Madden portrayed the agony of being enslaved perfectly and i think Natasha is absolutely killing lanfear. You can see her lust, jealousy, arrogance and underlying instability without her having to say a word.
The subtly that Natasha puts into her performances- every eye flick has meaning. You can tell she is 100% in on the role.
And Madeline's performance was excellent- might be the best in the series so far. The looks she gave at the end were haunting... and convays every emotion it needed to!!
Thanks for watching!!
@@foretellingprime i enjoyed the reaction and completely agree. This is top tier tv for me now
@@tw7998 thanks very much!
watched the first few minutes and subscribed already!! looking forward to the reactions to the remaining two episodes of this season
Thanks very much for the sub! Looking forward to your comments!
The dusting thing happened in season 1 before Lanfear was free when Ishy was talking to Rand in episode 8. It is worth noting when Ishy is in charge of a dream things glitch occasionally because he isn't as good at it. When it is Lanfear the dream is perfect like it is reality with no glitches.
Fair enough, I will have to go back and watch it!
Your fake foretelling theory is actually great! Hadn't thought about that yet, but it makes so much sense
I am very curious as to how they will resolve it! Hopefully we will get an answer this season!
Thanks for watching!
Spoiler
Maybe Min only sees someone who looks like Rand and is stabbed by Mat! Ishy or Lanfear…. Remember the Dream with Ishy and Lanfear? I think I remember Rand fighting Ishy within the Dreams while beeing really there.😅
@@sandrat3690 Yeah, I've seen multiple plausible theories on how it could be manipulated/faked, and I must say, if that is the case I love it! Min's power is nearly untouchable in the books, the only weakness being that she doesn't know what all her visions mean. It'd be so cool if her power can be hijacked to an extent.
@37:45 the dusting effect is used by Ishamael earlier on (might even be in season 1) so its not exclusive to Lanfear. Might just be a way to demonstrate traveling in TAR
Could very well be- he doest it in Rands dream in episode 2- but could still fall under lanfear at that point.
There is a similar effect when he is released in s1e8- but I think that is different enough.
But you are most likely right- fun to theorize though
If it were an Aiel Wise One who was collared, I think they would be able to resist the breaking. They would still scream and cry from the pain that Renna inflicts of course, but they would nevertheless always refuse to cooperate after the suldam stops inflicting the pain. I recall the books mentioning how Aiel cope with torture in one book, it's almost like they dissociate the pain they suffer from the decisions that they make.
Very true, they embrace the pain knowing that what they suffer is much less than what their people do, and that their pain is nothing compared to the larger scale.
That sad, I am unsure how it goes in the books after months and months of this treatment
They would last longer than most, but the Seanchan can control the level of it. They would break too, either submitting... or they would fracture mentally. The device itself stimulates pain centers, but does not destroy nerves to do it. They can maintain the pain for as long as necessary.
I'm all for respecting WIse Ones, but after a certain point with these things, it's bravado to say you would endure.
Loved your reaction. Subscribed.
Thanks for watching!! Hope to see you on the next one!
@@foretellingprime indeed you will! Looking forward to it!
Battle of Falme will be featured in this season or not?
100% I think they probably got rid of the stone battles from book 3 though.
I think season 3 is largely book 4
Liandrin formed a weapon against Nynaeve in the season premiere to get her angry so she could push through her block.
I think Siuan does something similar in book 2, right? Is the sword actually a weapon if it won't be used as one? The Oath is for 1 person to kill another, and this wasn't going to be used for that
@@foretellingprime That's really stretching the definition of 'making a weapon'. The oaths mean actually crafting a permanent physical object that is a power-wrought weapon, like the blademaster blades that will never etch or dull. Making a jedi lightsaber burning sword - that's just using the one power. I think they may be exaggerating a bit with the 'every single one'. The novices and accepted CAN still lie.
@@uuamenator I am sure that is the intent of the oath- but if a pitcher of water can be a weapon, than so can a sword of air haha. The Oath has no restriction on duration, and an Air Sword would still be a weapon imo
@@foretellingprime No, wait, now that I think about it, did Siuan Sanche actually make a sword of one power in the books, when she was teaching Eg and Ny on the way to Tar Valon? I can't recall. I also recalled the wording of the oath - it had a qualifying "for one man to kill another" so if a woman, or the aes sedai herself does it it should be ok? Also, remember, the oaths don't know the objective reality, they only know the subjective truth that the aes sedai herself believes, so if they don't believe this applies - it doesn't.
@@uuamenator I think man is just used instead of mankind.
Also seems weird they would technically be able to make like... shadowspawn weapons lol?
And for sure- I think Siuan does as well which is why I don't think this counts as breaking the Oath
I eagerly await the return of Thom Merrelin :P We want the Glee Man!
100% hopefully with a colourful cloak-
Book Spoilers
I believe he his confirmed for s3
@@foretellingprime One of my favs from the books and I really like the choice and performance of Alexandre Willaume
They knocked Renna out of the park. 👏
They really did, they did a phenomenal job!
@@foretellingprime my husband has never read the books - he hates spoilers but broke and asked how she gets payback. He still a bit annoyed I won’t tell him.
This episode should have been entitled "Trauma".
Very traumatic indeed, hard to watch in alot of spots 😢
if the plan was not to have MAt go with Rand, why take him to Cairhien at all ????
Maybe something was supposed to happen in Cairhien? Or maybe have Mat reject Rand like Rand he did (so far)
It would be playing 4d chess, but Rand saying "alone it is" was real sad to hear
I honestly appreciate this Season even more than the last. Things are improving. But...there are still some rough editing/transition issues and sometimes I don't feel the "reality" of the world like I did with Game of Thrones. Biggest issue is that they seem to have made most of the male characters kind of secondary and neutered. Lan's character has really suffered in this series. Daniel is a great actor, but the writers have really made him kind of mopey, soft and sensitive--and the show could really use a main male character who is stolid, powerful and imposing. I think it is due to the composition of the writers in the series (Rafe and mostly women). Nothing wrong with a majority of women writing, but they need to add a talented male writer who can offer insight into writing a strong male character.
I think it was a conscious choice for Lan, but I disagree with the direction they took.
I agree in s1, especially episode 7- he was too emotive. I think this season he has been alot more stoic where he should be.
I don't think he is mopy, they just gave him a lame duck storyline to follow- and that is not what Lan as a character should be doing. They took away his agency in this subplot, and it just feels wrong for the character.
I am sure they are more than capable of writing Lan- I really don't think it is hard... but they wanted to add more to him, and in doing so- changed him into something he is not (IMO).
Lol that’s a good point about the temple, also brave of darkfriends to have just erected these things up??
Seems odd to me haha