War Thunder DEV - THE BEST DOGFIGHTER in the GAME? JAS-39A GRIPEN vs Other FIGHTERS!
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- Опубліковано 7 гру 2023
- How the GRIPEN does against the best dogfighters in the game in the DEV server?
forum.warthunder.com/t/prelim...
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the grippen was designed specifically to counter the flanker so it was made to be really manouverable
@@ruska9773 its not correct ff16 dogfight ratio is 60% but the gripen got a 74 % par with the typhoon and on par with f22 the only con against f16 is the thrust f16 is beaten up in every situation irl by gripen even the rafale beat the f16 which is a lot heavier than the gripen f16 is not for dogfight
@@CruLisP While I agree that the Gripen, Rafale and so on are better than the F16 that doesn't mean the F16 is a bad dogfighter, bare in mind that the F16 frame by the time the Rafale came about is over 10 years old, sure the C variant is an upgrade but its still the same frame.
But like I said I agree with you that they are better planes, but I don't think saying the F-16 is not for dogfight is incorrect.
@@fozzylozzy1131 The F-16 is sick. I got to fly one once (Im in the Swedish AF) . I do know tho that at low speeds and with the engine running on lower thrust, it almost feels like a brick. The JAS-39 Gripen tho is really good, and i can pull 10g`s without worrying about the frame. It just feels nimbler.
It isn't exactly right.
Gripen planform was fixed before flanker became known in the west; it was of course built specifically to fight new generation soviet fighters, but so were the previous Swedish fighters as well.
What Gripen has is that it's a later aircraft, making full use of FbW (unstable delta canard). One of the first children of extensive aerodynamics studies in the 1980s.
well its not designed to do lowspeed dogfights with other planes more in a fast engagement. also future versions will have such strong electronic capability so they can jam out radiation waves and weapons. gripen is designed to keep it fast and not alot of energy and make the fighter turn inside the turning circle and get energy trapped and it could be really easy done in warthunder in a fast engagment.
Gripen is made for dogfighting. There are documents available online with its turn rate and it is better than almost anything else out there
Bro it's turn time is better then a zero😂
also made for attacking battle ships
you didn't try against the mirage 4000, Defyn did and he said that the mirage 4000 was better than the f16a and the gripen, f16a behind 2nd after the mirage 4000
uh so its better than the over buffed f16? we r fucked...
@@lilpinga5599that’s what happens when you have two nukes for engines lmao
@lilpinga5599 the F16 isn't over buffed. It just happens to be an incredibly maneuverable aircraft.
@@InterstellarTaco yes, it is a maneuverable plane but it is not capable of pulling very steep AOA angles, as has been happening in the game... not by far, as demonstrated in the video "the insane engineering of the F16": ua-cam.com/video/EhhOin2p5Qs/v-deo.html&ab_channel =RealEngineering. In the video he shows the cornering performance of the most maneuverable F-16 that the USAF has ever had (the F-16 Block 15 OFU, after ADF), and it doesn't do even close to what the F-16 does in the game, just remembering that it had a better flight computer and was lighter, saying that it isn't overbuffed is uncharacteristic of the US mains
@@lilpinga5599 I agree, the f16 is no longer historic, it needs corrections, with the G limiter it was perfect, you need to see how muricas are when they read something about this on the forum, you will be treated like a criminal HaHa!
The canards shouldn't be acting as elevators for the Gripen. They should mostly be parallel to ur flight path. So when a plane with canard pulls high AOA, the canards should point down in order to maintain lift and stability during the high AOA maneuver. It shouldn't be pushing the aircraft down so i think theres so adjusting to do for this Flight model.
I could be wrong but I think they are dual (triple cause ailerons?) purpose on the gripen. Either way, you are right they are over tuned a bit and shouldn’t be throwing the nose under, sometimes hard enough to do an outside waterfall.
That r73 at 3:47 was fucking crazy bro. Su-27 really is gonna be a fun dog fighter
And the fact that it's the stock missile is insane
@@AlvB218 bruh, the only option would be r60ms, it would be impossible to kill something
I'm am currently grinding the f-15 on Dev with the f-16C and I won every dog fight against a su-27 until now
Might be because the flanker is a new fighter and players don’t really know what to expect from it, but still great job)
Fuel load and pilot skill really make it to where as long as they’re generally close you can win in the worse jet, I’ve beaten mig29s in the jh7, but I think when the dev servers over su27 should clap f16c and mig29g
My experience in dev server: almost every su-27 I merge with pull too hard and stall out in front of me. Everyone is used to panic-pulling as hard as possible in migs so they do the same in flanker. I did basically the same with gripen a few times and got punished for it just the same
great to see a good look into how they will compare although its only first dev server
Man, as a Brit main I was amazed to see we were getting a gripen but I feel bad we're getting a slightly better version than the swedes.
I mean this is their homegrown fighter and I would expect them to get the cool version atm, it's almost like when the gr.1 was added and every other nations was just better, this feels similar
But hey, it is gorgeous plane! Then again I love the three canard fighters, and now we have the first :D
I wouldn't worry too much. The Swedes have and are getting a better Leopard than the Germans anyways.
yes I take this as a personal insult, bloody insanity.
Which tree do you think the british will be in?
Answer me one thing, who told you that the Swedes won't receive all versions of the Gripen? Did your mother have you at just 4 months pregnant?
The USA have all F-16s and Sweden will have all Gripens. Remembering, Hungary has Gripens, so Italy will also have Gripens. And the Czech Republic also has Gripens, and perhaps even Germany will receive a Gripen from Sweden, as it makes perfect sense for the Czech Republic to join Germany. It's a pretty fair exchange, don't you think? The Swedes received the entire line of German armored vehicles, including the best Leopards. And the Germans receiving at least one of the Swedish Gripens.
China has training fighters, and Sweden will also receive training Gripens, perhaps through an event coupon clike China received.
@@jackmaylor8229 probably after the FGR2
The limiter on the F16 is also the only thing stopping it from spinning out of control in sharp/high aoa turns, but that isn't modelled in the game for some odd reason. That and they put a weird fake limiter on the mig29, that stops it from having it's real aoa, even if you put SAS to manual, even though you still bleed energy as if you DID pull that ammount of aoa. It doesn't sit right with me, knowing how both aircraft feel in DCS and in WT.
these video types are fun to watch just two friends having fun make more content that are easy for you to make and fun to watch love your videos mat keep going❣
the 4000 stomps the gripen (and basically every other plane) the moment the fight turn into an energy fight. It has i believe around 1.45 t/w and never goes under 340 kph with pc. The gripen turns better for like 1-2 turn, and then it's fucked, same for the f16. Dev server got updated and now it can carry 8 magic 2s and 1 super 530 under the belly. It's minimum fuel has been reduce to 6min and max to 21 without fuel tanks. the planes can go full afterburner and will never go below 395kph stock.
Great news if they gave it 9 missiles. The jet was developed specifically to carry a lot of missiles, every document I've seen says minimum of 8. The idea of Gaijin limiting it to 6 would've been a bizarre and false limitation. Now if they only give it the 530D rather than the completely useless 530F version, it will be a fully proper counter to the f15 and SU27.
@@codyfox2876 bvr meta is dead anyway, you hug the ground and loft ir missiles to get kills. It could take the 530D if they give him the greek mirage2000 rdm specially modified to be able to fire the 530D because the rdi was export restricted. I'm hoping we'll get a drag reduction, since it was irl able to reach 15km alt (around 20 000ft) and mach 2 in 3min45 seconds and a climb rate of 305m/s. Let's not forget it will get micas (better amraam with lesser range) in the future.
@@tigerbesteverything yeah BVR meta is mostly dead. I play 3 Magic 2s and 1 530D on my M2k. The 1 530D usually still comes in useful because there will always be a fool in an F14 who comes in at high altitude and spams phoenix.
the engine screeches of the Su-27 are insane
Hopely they keep the flight model so Sweden have an edge over the other nations
I agree!
to balance it you can cut the max speed and i think that would be fair. More than likely, they will make it bleed speed like hell or limits its acceleration like hell to balance it.
@@Uncancellablethat's not realistic though?
they are going to nerf it, its not accurate, but it will still be solid.
same with britain.
The thing with full real controls, is that there is a control to change the SAS mode, it can go from damped and self levelling to completely off where you can pull some nutty moves with jets in sim
3:03, you can see the instructor kicking in and pushing canards down to prevent stall, so no fly by wire fault, try using full real controls in turns so the that the instructor is not active and prevents any unwanted maneuvers
I was waiting for this
But Mirage 4000k?
You pilot ejected into his afterburner 🤣🥵
I just wanna say that on aircraft like the SU 27 flanker that have super maneuverability are post to have the ability to deactivate their flyby wire system to increase their maneuverability in a dogfight that’s how the SU 27 is capable of doing cobras and other crazy maneuvers but I could see why if the developers don’t want to add that function to the plane because it will make it overpowered
It's more or less already in game in the form of switching to full realistic controls for a moment.
Gripen got the Bk-27 Mauser revolver cannon🗿
you should have tried Yak-141 with vtol, it can do some crazy maneuvers
Im assuming this is before they fix the flight model and reduce its thrust by 20%, decrease its lift, and increase drag?
Is there any information when is it gonna be on live servers?
cod you make video about JAS-39A vs other 11.7/12.0 jets lick MIG-29.F-16 or mirage 2000/4000
Unfortuante that this was recorded just before the new dev server released.
whats the difference ?
@@Fjallkloka_Aventyr I don't know all the changes, but they fixed the LITENING II pod, gave the Gripen the HUD it had irl (very cool) and the volcano map is now ruined lol.
Now with mirage 2000 and 4k
those guns on Jas39 is like copied from a ww2 spitfire
Wut? The spits had 20mm, the gripen has a 27mm
@@atomev8nah im just comparing its kinda funny how the 27mm only tickles
Testa o mirage 4000 mat, ele está melhor que o gripen aparentemente
Compare this video aswell as the dev stream when the update gets released, the flight models are gonna have changed a lot!
all these years of waiting finally pay out
why arent the missles on the wing tips 😭
They are
Hate that
new engine sounds are godly
Crazy that the mirage is batter dogfighted than the grippen
Im so happy to hear that the plane that Im grinding is the best dog fighter in the game
Bad news is that it is a delta wing so the energy bleed will be really bad so watch out for someone trying to bleed your energy
@@themilkman3568Gripen has extremely low drag though so it shouldn't lose that much speed anyways
guys I was actually talking about the f 16a block 10 (9:10) but ok
I 1v1ed my friend in the grippen with an A10 and won practically every time
HI when you swap to full controls you dont get a grey circle on the screen. How can I get rid of it?
Eu amo os 3 aviões, mas o gripen é definitivamente o mais lindo
Good taste
it would be nice about the gripen being the best turn fighter i think its would make it fair in terms of su27 having 10 missles 6 being bst radar in game
The instructor is weird with the canards so it's a bit wonky with the gripen
@@nicolaspeigne1429yeah hopefully it gets fixed
Still the su27 and f-15 respectively should be a bit better at turning and keeping speed at lower speeds/ su27 particularly
@@theycallmetray396no you can google the turn speed. Gripen is better instantaneous and sustained turn rate. Even better than Rafael and more modern fighters
@@theycallmetray396 not f15 but su27 should be on par with gripen like it is in game, gripen is still better at turning in the dev server but su27 has a chance of out turning.
Not sure how these fights would change based on the recent flight model tweaking, but I believe the SU-27 and the F-15 are underperforming in the rate fight, or the delta-winged Gripen and M4K are over performing. In terms of nose authority, the deltas should be winning those fights, but the relative low wing loading, very powerful engines, and somewhat conventional designs of the SU-27 and F-15 should allow them to beat the deltas at the two circle.
Could be down to a myriad of factors though. People may not know the rate speeds for the Flanker and the Eagle and are just holding down the S key without allowing their aircraft’s to build up energy and get at their corner speeds. We will just have to see the finished products once they go to the live servers!
do the f-16's beat the f-15's and su-27's in dogfights? I hope they do since it would make their job as light fighters actually useful and not useless , for example the mig-29smt seems to be useless after this next update compared to the su-27 in every category and since they are same br
Su27 will carry 6 R27ERs giving it the firepower of 3 Mig29s
@@aniketdaptardar1 exactly so why is the mig 29 and the su27 same br if su27 is better than it in every way?
@@RLXxEpic they should not be probably they will move su27 up to 12.7 or 13
do they add differences for fly by wire?
They did but people cried about it and put fake g limiters on other gets
It really goes mirage then f16a then grippen, for the rest you have to watch defyn and joobs vid, I think joob had a better showing because they’re pretty equally skilled
Im just sad that the British get a c and sweeden only gets an a.
Im almost sure the c has hmd and slightly better aam's in some situations.
I get it, but Swedes have had the 2 best Leopards in the game for a long time and they never complained then.
@@Takemura76 It's not really the same tho, the swedes upgraded their leopard. Britain on the other hand will receive a better version. While Sweden getting a worse one for no apparent reason. Like for example it would be like if Germany got the 2a6 while Sweden got the 2a7, like why would Sweden receive the 2a7 before Germany? Do you get what i mean.
@@Takemura76 britain has nothing at all in 12.0, they need it.
@@L0K0M0T1V No, your logic doesn't add up here.
In both cases, a foreign nation received an improved/more advanced version of the same vehicle.
Doesn't matter whether a difference exists in how they came about it in real life. All that matters is in-game.
Germans should have gotten a more advanced Leo2a7 when Sweden got their PLSS.
Sweden should have gotten a more advanced Gripen before the UK gets their Gripen C.
It's that simple. If a foreign nation has something better than the last version of a particular domestic vehicle that was discontinued, as is the case with many American vehicles, then the domestic producer should receive their most advanced versions first, and foreign nations should receive the upgrades at a later date.
Just the way I see it.
Russia has almost never been in this position except for very, very brief and rare periods. Off the top of my head, only the SMT can be said to KIND OF fit this pattern against the German Mig29G and even then, it's been for a very short period and not conclusive as the SMT has better radar for BVR.
@@theroach2204 I agree, they do need it. That said, Sweden should have the more or at least, and equally advanced version.
There is definitely huge factor that’s play in now, like crew level and if it’s experted or aced and pilot error/experience.
Try the gripen against the j7e. I know it can’t face it but the j7e is generally on par with the f16
If it stays at 12.0 they could face off. But I doubt it will stay there
OOOOOOOOOOO! 0:55 SOOOOOO COOL! AHAHAHHAHA
finally this game is getting into real 4th gen
thx i grinded sweden till rank 6 i will grind the f15(baz and then grind sweden till the jas 39
the pitch problem is a bug
Can someone explain me why the grippen has so few ammo ? Even tho his rack is huge ?
And why the sukoi has more ammo even tho his storage is small ...?
And his ammo bigger ...?
I think gaijin did something stupid here
Why use the worst Mig 29 for dogfighting to represent its capabilities in a dogfight? I think this is the second time I’ve seen you have someone fly the smt for a dogfight video.
The G is shit anyway so it doesn't matter
I find it funny so many people are pointing out how sweden isn’t getting the best version of THEIR OWN aircraft but yet it’s the same for the f15. Japan has the better f15. Can I also just point out. Where tf is everyone’s amraams? How tf did gaijin think it would be a good idea to not drop those when everyone has been wanting them
Meu Gripen GO CRAZYY kkkk
Why does the UK get the C version first?😢
Anyone know how to bind the full controls mode like he did at 3:27?
Does this Gripen have the ability to supercruise without needing to resort to the afterburne?
At higher altitudes most of the aircraft can supercruise
Not sure but irl only the gripen E can super cruise
In my experience, I needed to use at least the first stage afterburner to break Mach 1
The MiG 29 does not turn the same as the SU 27, and they are not supposed to.
The dev server flight models ATM feel so shit. The Su-27 feels like it wants to pull a cobra every time, the F-15 is so janky, etc
They really need to change the FM of all the aircraft, the gripen is an UFO which is funny because the F16C should shit on it 9/10 times, the Su27 has no "Kobra" button and so it automatically pulls a cobra when you go under 800km/h also it has no low speed agility its famous for and the F15 is just a brick
@@warspitebstwaifu6453apparently the gripen a has more thrust then what it should so that's probably going to change also with it's ammo count as it only had 120 rounds not the current count at the moment
@@warspitebstwaifu6453Gripen is superior to the f16. Better instantaneous turn and better sustained turn rate. In dogfight competitions gripen has won easily against f16, f15, Su 27.
@@humbuggaming2126this, 5-0 JAS 39 vs F-16 during the first ever Red Rock exercise in 2006 IIRC
When u hit 250mph or less u need to put out flaps
How do you suggest doing that when the Gripen does not have flaps?
1:15 as we all know, gaijin will totally fuq the gripen flight model...
Hate to see the f16 being used in a one circle fight 😢
F16 pilot did not play well. He always went in 1-circle turns
is it posible that south african gripen will receive python 4 ?
Unlikely but it should have a hmd
Although the Jas39a still a good plane but we still want gaijin can give the C version for Sweden. Sweden fighters had been suffered for a long time :”)
not as much as British fighters
@@phant0mph0enix72yeah, British fighters have suffered a lot more...
@@thesleeplessone6971 Uk has a lot of planes had been added like tor, gr7, … but about Sweden, how long have u hear new plane added for Sweden :)))?
9:30 very hard to kill the F-16 with Gripen... Then proceeds to outturn it without trying
F-16 isnt the best at 1 circles, also the gripen is overperforming so expect it to be patched
@@jenaiallen5337how is it overperforming????
@@humbuggaming2126 It has more thrust and less drag than it should. It will still be much better than the Tornado when it comes out though. It may not be able to do as well against the F-16 and other highly manoeuvrable foes though.
It also should still beat the F-16 in 1 circle fights.
@@jenaiallen5337 It has the right amount of thrust. All thrust measurements are in static thrust(x-ray in wt, what it says on Wikipedia irl) all jet engines create more thrust at speed. Every other vehicle in war thunder works that way.
Sabia q tu é br, o sotaque não mente kkk
Why are they still 12.3?? These planes arent the same as mig29smt and f16c...
I guess similar loadouts is the excuse
Probably they will be taken to 12.7
to be fair to the gripen, it looks like its user error here, you're generally a really good pilot, but maybe you should get accustomed to the gripes a bit. The gripen seems like it would beat the su27 every single time, if the pilot has just a bit more experience. looking at this footage I'm not even doubting the gripen could beat the f16, even a very skilled f16 pilot.
In real close combat Su-27 je Is the best you could sre that at every sir show and every pilot will tell you that
A gripen should not go in a low or medium dogfight with a F-16 cuz Gripen will always win in high speed against the F-16 in fast dogfights also same with SU-27 really. sure they would be able to turn inside ur turning circle in fast dogfights but if they miss the missile they will be energy trapped.
These results really dont mean anything to me as USSR player, I won’t take dogfights for 85% of the match when i still have 27ERs.
As a Britain main, I do feel bad that Britain gets a better Gripen than Sweden.
They just need to give the c to both and boom prob solved lol
@@agentnine593 Exactly.
no, that would make A DoA @@agentnine593
Same but I’m sure Sweden will get the next version eventually.
Gripen has a better instantaneous and sustained turn rate than any other fighter. Including f22 among others. During Red Flag 2006 in Alaska one Gripen A pilot knocked down five F-16 block 50+ during close combat. During that exercise Gripen never lost any areal encounter or failed their mission objectives. It was the only fighter that performed all planned starts, while others were sitting on the ground waiting for the weather to clear up. The evaluation was that Gripens capacity needed to be revaluated. And no disrespect to other pilots, they are equally trained and in a Gripen would be performing equally well.
During a combat exercise with the Royal Norwegain Air Force, 3 Swedish Gripens went up against 5 RNAF F-16's. The Result was 5-0, 5-0, 5-1 after having flown 3 round
My man the f22 has thrust vectoring. In no world would the gripen have a better sustain turn rate
@@spongegobler3449 Still it's available online. Google "instantaneous turn rate vs sustained turn rate modern fighter jets"
@@spongegobler3449 F22 is many times heavier with exponentially more air resistance(due to lager size). It's powerfull engines can only do so much.
stop cutting throttle randomly
dumping energy for no reason is a bad idea
The gripen currently has a quarter more thrust than it should have, and the devs said it was gonna change
Apparently its got like 20 percent more thrust than its supposed to right now.
Shouldn't the F-16 easily win the 2 circle? One circle Gripen of course, but the F-16 should outrate it, shouldn't it?
No gripen has better sustained turn. Extra power on f16 doesn't matter because gripen bleeds less speed thanks to better aerodynamics.
Making a video about the best dogfighter without talking about the best dogfighter..
*Sad Mirage4000 noises*
I think the gripen is overperfomring in energy retention. It's still a delta wing
its not delta its delta-canard the canard on the grippen reduces its drag by 25-30% based on the weather and situation it can perform as a f16 to sustain turn or can pull hard to get behind even everything on the planet on the cost of energy this is why there is a special stick in the gripens when you pull the stick fully until it makes sound it will disable the software limitations and allows 12G and reduces the max AOA limit to 70 degree instead of 30 and at this point the figter will react as a draken but if you gently pulling it you have a better turn better energy retention than f16 because you lighter less weight less AOA need to turn so yes gripen is kinda right modelled in the game the canard doing its job while it controlles stall by reducing the frontal drag to 0 percent to came back from critical AOA this is why canard automatically troms to 70 degree down because gripens max sustained aoa is 70 degree and its the highest numbers do not count thrust vectors
Cadê os br?
F-15 should be the Best at fighting outside of visual contact
AOA AOA AOA
super mirage is the best
maby turn-off the instructor
They did give the grippen too much kgf so it might get nerfed
russia is and will always dominate, gaijin ensures it.
Russia hasn't dominated air since the mld blud
Second
first
mirage 4000 eat both f16 and su27 and j39 for breakfast