.38 Special VS .38 Special+P VS .357 Magnum
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2022
- Testing out Remington .38 Special and .38 Special+P in the 110 gr SJHP VS the Remington .357 Magnum in the 125 gr SJHP. I do a 10% Clear Ballistics Gel test. Always appreciative of any channel help :) www.patreon.com/user?u=5828221
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With the 13 yard measurement; I had measured my 25, 50 and 75 yard distances and ground staked them when I put in my steel target last year, but when I originally measured 10 yards it was an afterthought so I just did 10 paces or so, I figured it was close enough. I just wanted to make this point so that people still understood that the 25, 50 and 75 yards I quote have been measured out.
It really surprised me that the .357 actually had less penetration, but I guess the added bullet expansion really made a huge difference compared to the .38 and .38+P.
Everyone seems so enthralled with the 9mm but the .357 / .38 is just so versatile.
It is made for this
Higher velocity in projectiles design to expand means less penetration and more expansion. Look at a 150 30-30 vs a 150 .308 the 30-30 will out penetrate the .308
@@charlesadams7862and imagine the increased amount of energy transfer.
The diameter of the entry hole makes up for penetration.
The only reason why .357 rounds had less penetration is because they travelled so fast that they expanded a lot quicker upon hitting the gel than .38 special rounds did and, thus, it limited their penetration.
I can remember when the standard bullet weight for 38Spl and 357Mag both was 158gr, and I ain't even old yet.
True, but somewhere 125gr became popular, I'll take a pass on the cracked forcing cone and top strapware cutting and just stick with standard 158 loadings whether they be plus p or 38 " high velocity" and 357 MAGNUM... it's all good...
I've watched the test over the years and the 125 gr. 357 mag. Is a sure performer with great bullet expansion without a lot of mussel rise AND lower flash for shooting at night. Allows me to acquire my target faster. The 158 gr. Is a sure stopper BUT a lot more juice to it.
Back in 1981 I used to reload .357 , eventually found out 125grain and H110 powder was the sweet point. Yes ,getting old, 70.
Bless your soul! I am a bit younger but not by much! I just started shooting my revolvers again and like reloading for my .357, it’s a hoot!
Yep
My favorite .38 Special +P round out of a four inch barrel is the Buffalo Bore 158 gr. L.S.W.C.H.P. The FBI load. I also like their 158 gr. hard cast Keith round.
Great video. I really like .38 special myself, so this really helped decide which round I should carry for personal defense and I'll just stick with the standard round.
I like the 38 special and as stated it's underrated but has been carried in the military, law enforcement and security services for close to a hundred years. In the end it's all about shot placement, which means training is more important than big rounds!
38 special is so underrated compared to 357 and 9x19.
It penetrates deeper and sometimes that can be decisive factor.
357 is heavy round delivering plenty of energy and damage but 38 special is all you need for quitter self defense especially in house scenario so your ears don't ring for days after.
It's so good, Barney only needed one.
@@GunSam Barney wouldn't have a foot left if he had an AD with .357.
And easier follow-ups.
Shot a .357 round once, back in the 80's, without hearing protection. My ear is still ringing today.
@@ChattanoogaHasDogsyou can lose hearing or percentage thereof from even one unprotected shot. People need to consider this at range and home defense. I have a suppressed CZ 9mm 124gr +p jhp nightstand gun.
Good stuff, i never was a great marksman, now being a senior, it is imperative I hit what i am aiming at; so, I go with standard pressure BUT use whatever is available.
Honestly I'm going with plus p on this one I'm a big Magnum guy but you can't argue with the results
I like your video editing, especially with the gel blocks. Blocking out everything but the blocks. Nice! As always, enjoy the 38s.
I like the way you set up your trials. It covers the things I'm most interested in. Keep up the good work!
Wow thanks for doing my suggestion, it was incredibly informative. It answered a lot of questions I've been wondering for years, and haven't had the means :)
I just found your channel and am enjoying your videos. Watching your back log. This was fun to watch, thanks
Great vid Sam , always wanted to actually see the differences. Keep them coming.
Great Video, I doubt I’ll continue to shoot +p in the future. Loved your approach, will watch more of your offerings ! Well Done .
.38 and .38+P and .357 - Yes, please!
I'm still waiting to find an old Diamondback, that is within my budget!
Great video, Sam! 👍
He hits that Comp. III like it owes him money.
That's what she said.
Thanks for your testing evaluations. .38spl is still a viable option as well as 357 Magnum. I recently picked up a .357 mag LCR based on your LCR's performance in a different caliber. Your content is very informative and sheds more light on these calibers with proof Sam. Thank you for all you do. 🎩🎱🎯♠️🏁🇺🇲🇺🇦🌻🌸💮🌼🔫
Recently got into revolvers. Loving your videos
Just got a 686 plus, this is excellent content , thank you.
Sweet freaking pistol 👍
Thanks, that was a good test. I'd like to see that same test with ammo from different manufacturers once you are able to find it.
Nice demonstration Sam on comparing .38 vs 357. I would love to see you compare the velocity and penetration of Buffalo Bore 357 Magnum rounds in different velocities. Compare the 110 gr vs 125 gr vs 158 grain hollow points out of your 686.
Thanks for this. Pretty good groups with those .357 mags!
Thanks! That was a very useful test.
Just what I was looking for, Thanks!
I have several .357s but what I find myself carrying the most is an early 80’s J frame that was only rated for .38. The Buffalo Bore LSWCHP in standard pressure is great.
I just bought my first and only gun a few months ago, a S&W 686 Plus with a 5-inch barrel. I've only been to the range twice. The first time, I used a box of Callaway Ballistics 38 SPL TMJFP 125gr. It was a training class, and I did very well hitting the target at 10 yards. However, not knowing anything about ammo at the time (and not much more now, lol), the instructor told me the ammo was a box of reloads. This came up because the gun jammed a few times, the cylinder not turning. He said it was probably because some of the bullets weren't the exact right physical size. Anyway, on my second trip I shot up a box of new Aguila .357 semi-jacketed soft point 158gr. The recoil difference was staggering to me, and as a result I only had three or four hits on a metal target set up at about 30 yards. Important point: my ONLY goal in having a gun is to carry it for self-defense. I'm not interested in hunting, target shooting, etc. So, I've been advised that for that purpose and the much greater control, I should only shoot 38's of some kind. My question then is, what is the absolute best .38 I can use for this gun for pure self-defense purposes, and that I can most safely use considering all factors involved? Thanks.
That's a very nice revolver. I personally like the 130 grain Winchester defender +p. I find it comfy in my 5 in gp100. 125 grain standard pressure are comfy as well at the range, and I don't really remember a difference in controlling the two. 357 isn't a good idea without a ton of experience, it's over double the ft lbs of recoil. Anything 38 special off the shelf is vastly easier to use in my experience.
Make sure it's empty, and dry fire through 12 times with double action. That should clear that he gave you terrible ammo. It must of stuck out the rear to block cylinder turning. That seems like dangerous ammo, and he shouldn't be doing that. Hope that helps.
Buffalo Bore 38 Special 158 gr +p LSWCHP seems to be the most powerful 38 Special round on the market. It should be pretty controllable out of your 686. My old 4" 686 loves it, as does my 2" Model 64. My 64 with that ammo is my usual night stand gun
Another good video. Thanks for sharing. Take care.
This was a very informative video. It was surprising to see how far the 38 special penetrated the gelatin block. Yes, the 357 Magnum is very powerful, but 38 special has an interesting performance level as well. Plus P was interesting as well. But for simplicity of ammunition inventory, having both 357 Magnum and 38 Special will be enough.
the mushrooming on the 357 is amazing!
Sam, thanks for another great video lesson. Have you / can you do a quick video on speed loaders? You seem to have much practice with them and your knowledge would be greatly appreciated. Thank you.
Great test. I've been keeping eyes open for a 3 or 4 inch .357 revolver. I don't think that I'll fire a lot of .357 but I'd love to have the versatility if I decide to. Loading for .38 is just so much more fun and I have a few molds now to cast bullets for whatever kind of shooting I feel like. I hope you have a safe and Happy 4th!
I have decided on getting a .38 sp revolver, but can’t afford a S&W or Ruger. The Taurus 856 is really drawing me. I’m so focused on getting one, I’ve even started reloading for one! I cast 158 gr bullets, powder coat, then apply gas checks when sizing to .358.
Thanks for the very useful content.
38spl in a snubbie seems to be carried by me more often than anything
Fed 130gr HST and 148gr LWC are my favorite carry loads
Thanks for sharing your results
Excellent scientific objectivity, thanks
Love this , I would load 2 of each at end of my revolver session, just to see the difference in accuracy
Thanks for sharing this information with us
Great video, thanks. 44 caliber with similar rounds of special and magnum would be interesting too.
My ideal revolver is my S&W model 646 4-inch in 40 S&W caliber. Fits handily between 38+P and beginning loads of 357 Mag. With the S&W boot grips it points like a dream and is very pleasant to shoot. Power is significantly greater than 38+P. And, it is comfortable to carry in a belt holster.
I like my Charter 40 S&W revolver with a 2.25 inch barrel… loaded with 180gr HST
@@MrBuckeye63 Cool. I've not seen 40 cal in a revolver locally, but it's a cool cartridge.
Hey nice comment, but save it for a video about different (40 S&W) calibers and your personal favorite(s). Everybody has their own "favorite".
This is about the 38's and the 357. Stay on topic - don't hijack it.
Great test as always. I was surprised at the penetration of the standard pressure load, for a 110 grain. Of course that reflects very little expansion. For +p i am bonded to the Buffalo Bore 158's, ot Gold Dot 135's for snubbies. For magnum, what else needs to be said? The Rem 125 SJHP in the 96% one shot stop load from bygone days. Even with a bit lower velocity as you got here, performance js still exceptional. I notice in recent years that these bullets don't fragment like they once did. They hold together and expand well. Remington changed something in the bullet construction. That is probably a good thing. Certainly it is good for the medical examiner......
Watching the ballistic gel bounce made me think about what I heard a old L.A.P.D. SWAT guy say about .357. That all of the anecdotal stories of one shot stops were at close quarters and had to do in part with the muzzle blast traumatizing the body.
I have heard that, but it's one of those things that might be hard to know the truth about.
Lucky Gunner did a video on the 357 Sig that may apply to 357 Magnum and 9x19mm. I've also been seeing tests, YT not scientific, where a 50 ft-lbs advantage or even more seems to be trumped by bullet construction when hitting the gel. It all leaves me with so many questions.
Even now the gendarmerie intervention group French GIGN, uses the 357 magnum revolver they carry it together with the semi-automatic pistol, as well as the GSG 9 of the German Police
Awesome Video! Thank You!
Thanks Sam……..great video 👍👍
Thank you.
I had my G34 Glock in an odd place , & was moving to a different place in my house , had my 44sp in my rt hand & picked up my G34 in the left ,,, the mag dropped out & now all I had was a single shot . In the odd spot , pressure was put on the mag button & I didn't notice . The 624 was still good to go !!! Win for S&W N frame !!!
624s are such underrated guns. I wish I could find one at a decent price
I was talking to a guy at the gun counter a couple days ago. I said my mags drop, he's like yup happens to me too. His explanation that the +1'ing of guns is the problem, if it's 13+1 you should in practice do 12+1 to relieve some mag spring pressure and weight. I suppose it's an idea. Now you hit the mag release, I don't know if the one less round would have mattered, but I do know more weight means more likely to drop.
@@GunSam My G34 was loaded for carry Down loaded 1 , from the mag , 16 total ... for range/testing I often load 1 , top off the mag =17+1 . As I said before , after I got my G20 , many years ago , I started pressing the button as I put the mag in to save the notch . I tend to do that on all my guns , not ALL the time , Most of the time & give it a tug as they say with ARs .
@@GunSam My G34 is a 3rd gen , I think it came with an extended mag button , seems longer than any other . I have swapped some other glocks out & have a few standard buttons . I'm going to put a standard one in , this is not the first time this happened , rare but not rare enough . The standard button is fine , in the worst case the G34 could take pressure & if you know it or not , you could be holding a single shot ??
Really cool video.
Good shooting gun Sam 😊
I have recently been reviewing some of your older posts. This has made me realize that what attracted me initially to your channel was your unique way of testing ballistics. I really miss the jugornot box. Just an observation.
I was faced with change, or stop all together. Water jugs are surprisingly not easy to source and move, and cleanup without injury due to mud or ice was a problem. My health isn't what it used to be and I can't risk a fall. Gel allows for re-use and there's no mess.
Us wheel gun carriers really appreciate these videos, the .357/.38 special platform is by far my favorite! I would to see a frangible ammunition test! I carry in a retail environment so I’m trying to find bullets that reduce collateral damage.
... 130 gr. HST ...... ... Very controllable ,, very accurate with extreme expansion..
Great S&W
Great test! I'm a big fan of both calibers. The .38 is all you really need to get the job done. If you can handle the recoil, why not go for the magnum...
Great video 👍
Thanks
Power Custom gave you a High Tech Firing Pin to help keep your S&W in good shape . It will be in the mail on thurs . They don't cost much .
lol thanks. I will have to install it, mention Patreon and you and see on the first video how it does. I do plan to use it a lot next month as i'm getting the KKM .357 Sig barrel and plan a lot of Buffalo Bore and Underwood .357 Mag through the 686.
👍😊 you and that Smith are a happy couple.👍
Another great video that answered an important question, thank you. Do flash suppressed powders make a real difference? This was great because you compared the same brand of ammo and presumably, none were flash suppressed.
I like your philosophy on your testing.
I will say that ive never been a fan of umc ammo because i have seen a lot of variation in all of their loadings.
I will also say that to me, any hollow point that doesnt travel at least 1100fps will never be considered for any kind of personal protection from me. It always seems like a hollow point needs at least 1100fps (for the most part) in order to expand. Anything under that is just range ammo to me. If i go under 1100 (for any 38/380, or lighter loaded calibers) i look for the underwood extreme penetrator/defender that doesnt have a hollow point to be effective.
Great video. Really enjoyed it.
What about Keith style LSWC 158gr?
Plus Ps are more controllable and just under the magnum. Add to that time to re-aim.
A year later I am yhinking the .38s out of a rifle could be the cat's meow.
Regular .38 special is enough for self defense. Why make things harder on yourself?
Each one more power than the other.😮😮😮
Hello Sam, I am a disabled veteran, military retiree. For 21 years I carried the 1911, and then the M9. I've recently gotten MUCH more interested in revolvers, particularly .38spc. I don't have the hand strength I used to, arthritis and age are taking their toll. So, racking that slide (and yes, I could, and probably will go to lighter springs) isn't as easy as it once was, whereas with my Model 10, that isn't a problem. Which then begs the question of what ammo to use? I'm not a fan of +P. Never have been, shot placement is what's important, and getting that second and third shots out, accurately, in situations where fractions of a second count. So, I'm looking towards more traditional loads, especially Wadcutters and Semi-Wadcutters. I much prefer to shoot wadcutters, as scoring is easier, it's normally rated as "target" or "practice" ammo, which sadly, can be consideration should one find oneself in court. Shoot them with +P HP, and it's not beyond the realm of possibility of you being unfairly painted as an aggressor in court, while with a "target" round, it's a hell of alot more difficult. Could you do some tests with standard velocity wadcutters and semi-wadcutters, and compare them to other bullet types? I for one would certainly appreciate it.
It was 10yrs ago but there was a .38 +p+ from federal.
Nice.. Been waiting for this.. Guess I'll keep the magnum in J frame..lol
Thanks Sam this in awesome comparison, would love to see the same thing out of a snub-nosed, I shot the 125gr 357 out of mine but often wonder about performance of them.
Great video. Where did you get your signs?
Gun Sam 3 of the best calibers going. 38,357 are good. God bless 😊
The difference in sight settings needed when you switch back and forth between .38 and .357 is a problem for me. Also my hands shake so bad after 2 boxes of .357 that I cant hit anything after that. I can shoot the .38s all day. I've gotten so I would even rather just use the .38s for self defense, as those .357s shoot high and I would rather just have the better control and accuracy...But then again, a .357 warning shot does a better job of convincing others that your serious....
Hey Bro, You know Im a Ruger revolver collector. However I bought a 44 Bulldog in stainless this week. made by C. A. and thanks for all your videos. Im kind of curios how 44 Special compares to a 38 Special +P . Even though my friend is a semi professional reloader and I acquire a more powerful 44 load than average.
A good bullet like PDX 1 or any of the Ranger or Ranger bonded would have opened up big time and those velocitys over 1000.
... Love the .38/.357 revolvers ... versatile and very capable for personal carry .. or even light/mid game (if legal in your area) ...
Where I live it's legal. Basically anything centerfire we can use on deer, even if it's a .25 ACP. In other parts of my state the rules are different, like .35 caliber or more and less than 9 rounds in gun. Where i'm at I could use my 17+1 M&P 9, or even my snub nose .327 Federal.
..here in mid America round has to be rated 500 ft. lbs energy from factory specs.
You shot the magnum even better than the .38s on rapid fire. :) And you didn't "slow it down" by much at all. Well done indeed!
Not to add to your pile of "to dos" but if you're ever running low on ideas, what do you think about the same test only from a snubby?
As always, lots of good information here, some great shooting, and a very fun video. Thanks!
Thanks. If I did use a snubby, I might use 110 gr and 110 gr+P .38 Special Critical Defense, and 125 gr .357 Critical Defense.
@@GunSam - I think that would be exceptionally interesting. Popular weights and all.
But, whatever you come up with next and for the future, I'm sure it'll be interesting and fun.
I've said before, my husband is small framed and 5'8" on his best days. he carries a 442 nearly every day, and he carries 158gr semi wadcutter standard pressure ammo. He says it goes where I point it and, it Isn't as hard on an alloy frame gun. He also likes the lower recoil, and figures if he ever has to use it, he can fire it fairly fast, and get hits, and the one who gets hits center mass is not going to say ow that hurt. He loves 38's!
I had a 342 which is the same gun, with a Titanium cylinder so it was a little lighter. They are pretty good guns. Ruger LCR is "better", easier to shoot well.
Thank you. I had assumed that 110gr bullets would not penetrate.
Reckon they would all be effective if put in the right place. But the magnum definitely would be more likely to much quicker to accomplish the objective. If you have a 38 if possible go (+P).
Just wish I could find primers to reload my .38
Do you load any hollow points yourself to carry? I've been debating it since JHP prices are crazy but I can get 100 Hornady xtp bullets for $27
I feel like hot faster powder makes for better accuracy?
Not all magnum is magnum so good test
I don't understand why companies sell ammunition they know is unable to perform and is basically defective upon release and with ammunition its basically a dangerous liability to those who have to use it
But the 357 done well.
Wouldn't hate seeing same thing with 605. How close can u shoot steel safely without shards coming back? If I was stupid & bought a 44 special because I like it's looks....could I get like 100 or 200 rds of Gun Sam Reloads? And then buy a box of critical defense for carry.... does anyone do .44 special wadcutters w soft enough led they expand?
I believe that 10 yards is the minimum distance to shoot steel, but if the bullets are either unjacketed or frangible, you can get a little closer as splattering lead doesn't injure the shooter like a copper jacket fragment can. I haven't loaded .44 Special much, I did a few times but I haven't been able to acquire primers for awhile, at least not in store.
Just got some Buffalo Bore .357, 180 g with 1500FPS. Haven't shot it yet but I'm gonna hold on tight!
What is clear to me from this video is that there are different rounds for different purposes. Example, For home defence if you are a female or slight build and recoil sensitive, having an 8 shot revolver with standard .38 special rounds would be better for you. This is because you will be shooting from close distance probably 5-10 yards and so you want minimum recoil, and the quickest return to target to get your rounds off. Time is key here & .38 special will be significantly quicker to fire and the barrel to return to target than the other two larger rounds. If however, you are plinking outdoors at Long Rang, say 50 yards or in this case in the video 75 yards than the 38 special P+ would be ideal as it has better trajectory and lower flight drop over distance. If you are hiking in Alaska or Canada in bear country, then you probably want a HardCast 180 grain minimum, maybe a 200 or 220 Grain hard cast Magnum, 357.
The velocity and penetration of that particular 357 SJHP round was lacking compared to your previous tests. I wonder if remington changed the recipe or perhaps the HTP does perform better than UMC afterall
i may be wrong but i believe the lead now is harder. I don't see the "soft" lead when reading about those old FBI loads.
top merci
It’s crazy how poor science is, they say the human eye can only see 30-60 fps but you said your camera was only shooting 60 fps. Not being sarcastic here just analyzing some extra nerd data here. There are some new studies saying that the human brain in some instances with the eye can analyze 220 fps+ under certain circumstances. Great video by the way I liked the comparison using the same gun and using bullet weights at their practical advantages
one other factor is the sound. In a real gun fight, you aren't going to wear ear protection. Standard pressure wins.
A person isn't going to know any difference. It's something like in a real situation the human ears only hear 40db of sound. Not one person involved in a shooting will look back and tell you it was loud.
It seems the magnums lost velocity shattering the mdf?
Have you tested that Deep Punch ammo from Federal yet bc I wonder how that would fare against 158 gr wadcutters in the .38 for the .38 I still think the 158 wadcutters best.
ua-cam.com/video/YpHFCD_-qG8/v-deo.html
Great video man, It would be the definitive video if you make a .38 special and +P comparing the 2", 3" and 4" barrells with the 110, 125 and 158 grains SJHP.
I’d be nice n long too lol Love the longer videos
Interesting
I carry a snub.
I wonder if the standard pressure 38 will still penetrate enough with the shorter barrel?
I tested that today, same .38 and .38+P ammo in a 2" barrel. They did well.
357 is a lot of stopping power that's deadly.
It slapped that target around That’s for sure
38 is deadly Also
Love my. M200
Hey this is off subject but I would love to see a test of Fiochi 115 grain defense dynamics JHP in 9mm. its an affordable defense load. maybe in a 3 inch carry gun, that would be sweet, love your content
If someone bought the wrong "thing" it's not our fault --- I'd rather see what works than (WORRY) about someones "hurt feelings over fair". Keep-up the great works 👍 Getting dead over "fair" instead of what actually works is just plain STUPID! The other thing I really like is that is a great wilderness survival gun FMJ 38's are great for small game (squirrel, rabbit, turkey Etc:) and deer with a head shot and a workable Elk, Bear, Moose gun (at short distance) with 180 grain 357 magnum Buffalo Bore Outdoorsman loads.
Looks like to me that both the shield person and the person hiding behind the hostage would still be dead.
What the hell are you talking about? Shield person? wtf.
May I ask you, which gun you use for the test. Looks like a 686 with 4", correct?
yes...technically it's 4.125" lol
How much do those gel blocks weigh? There is way more "lift" when the 357 hit the gel than the 38's. My mind sees that as more ouch factor for the recipient
If I remember right they are 17 lbs a piece.
Am I the only one scratching my head at those wound channels? Looks like you fired FMJ to yield ice pick-like cavitation.
Yes, you are the only one.
@@GunSamso why when I watch other videos of ballistics gel I can see the temporary cavitation?
another good vid would be the same 38 bullet shot from both a 38 revolver and a 357 revolver with the same barrel lengths to see the difference in performance and how much the 38 loses being shot from the 357 vs the 38.
Not much is lost
It's more or a specific gun type thing. I actually did a test like this with .38 Special ammo in my 2" .357 mag and 1.875" .38 Special. Basically there was no difference. One ammo would average faster in the .38 Special revolver, the next one would average faster in the .357 Magnum revolver. In reality that fraction of an inch to allow a .357 Mag case mouth to fit is completely sealed at the cylinder throat by the bullet itself before the round is fired. That pressure is going to go forward no matter what.
I think your results at least hint at why I prefer lead over jacketed rounds for .38spl. All else being equal lead will give higher velocities for the same pressure (and flash) and at special velocities bullet shape is king when it comes to damage profiles either through meplat (WC and SWC) or tumbling (RN). You really don't want to waste energy on expansion anyway at these velocities.
At 357 velocities jacketed makes sense although with powder coating and hardness control it is probably possible to make lead work as well.
In the end I land on moderate weight lead for the specials.