@@thesmallestminorityisthein4045 correct. You must find the gun that fits your physical strength limits and features desired. My hot 357 is not everyone, but if all you can handle is a 22 lr, then do the best with it, practice.
Very well demonstrated. Thanks for not bashing the efficacy of the .38 special round. I carry .38’s and am confidently accurate with them. I’m certain that being on the other end of what I’m shooting would be an awful place to be. With only one working hand and a J frame the .38 is a hit whereas the .357 is only a maybe.
It’s not so much that you can’t make a hit with the 357. Just that follow up shots are significantly slower with 357 because the muzzle jumps so much off target
Great video 👍🏻 I don't know where that myth started or why it became so prominent... Yes, shorter barrel reduces the gains you get with the 357 over 38spl, but fact is the 357 operates at significantly higher pressure to begin with regardless of barrel length. Solid advice about using what you can comfortably shoot. Well done Sir
I have an LCR in 357, my edc round is a 125 grain xtp in front of 21 grains of H110. At 7 yards it punched through a piece of guardrail, that’s all the math I need. Love your videos.
Im pretty sure a 357 can “always” take 38 special. And that’s what he’s saying. It’s got nothing to do with preference or ability. Buy the 357 if you wanna shoot 38 shoot 38
I’ve been on the job over 25 years, and recently replaced my S&W 637 with a 360, and can verify this video is exactly why i did. Since i have been a ppc competitor years, and reload 38 target loads, practice with the pew pew loads is easy. The pick up in raw stopping power from the 357 is absolutely worth it. The S&W 360 series offers the exact same size, same weight or lighter, and double the power....it’s a no brainer!
Excellent video. I knew there would be a loss of velocity/energy with a snub but I think this video proves .357 even out of a short barrel can be an excellent carry choice. Thank you!
I keep my 340PD loaded w/+P b/c it’s too hard to get quick & accurate follow up shots w/.357. I survived three deadly attacks w/my issued thirty-eight and know it’s very capable of doing the job w/proper shot placement. You’re right, only hits count.
I'm glad you're still with us. I agree that shot placement is critical. Modern training methods put too much emphasis on putting as many rounds downrange as fast as possible with the high capacity 9mm semi autos. We come from a time when we were taught to make every shot count. I'd be willing to bet you unconsciously count your shots, too. The younger instructors at the range give me a hard time about my .45 and the revolvers with their shorter round count. I usually counter with, " What if you've only got time for one shot?"
@ You’re right, I do count even when watching videos since my ‘97 retirement. I knew when my revolver ran dry in a ‘74 gunfight so I was able to reload quickly & get right back in the fight.
GREAT VID!!! People need this info because, as you pointed out, there is so much mis-information "out there." I've reloaded for several decades and I recall in interesting comparison in the old Speer #7 reloading manual from the 1960s (or 70s?). The folks at Speer made a similar point about 2 inch .38 vs .357 with handloads from their manual. As they pointed out, the .357 wasters a LOT of powder in muzzle flash - however it still had significantly more power than .38 Special loads when 2 inch barrels are used for both. For MY cup of tea, I'll leave full house .357s for heavier, all steel guns - I'm a few years past retirement age and recoil is becoming a factor. But I'm quite glad I can still shoot magnums at all! Thanks again / you do great vids.
Recoil on the 340PD is stout, but I've never once said to myself "Ughhh...I dont feel like carrying my 340PD today". Program compliance is way too easy with that gun.
it's all about fit. really. I can fire a 3 inch sp101 with full house 357 more comfortably than I can a stock K frame in .357 Why? the ruger **fits** - the smith (without modification) doesn't
Have you noticed it when you express the caliber that you like or show people one of your favorite handguns all of a sudden you've got a Monday morning quarterback pocket expert that's one of the biggest critics that you've ever met
I have a S&W 340 PD. I put a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips, the LG-405 with a air pocket on top of the backstrap that is said to reduces felt recoil up to 30%. I still find the 357 magnum to be a bit harsh but I can shoot 38 +P ammo accurately with both left and right hands. They did make a difference and their good for practicing that double action only trigger pull.
I own a S&W 329pd in 44 mag, and those ultra light revolvers are a completely different animal compared to steel frames. No matter what chambering and loading they are brutal, but they sure are fun to shoot for that very reason.
The clearest, to the point, objective narration and presentation that I have ever seen. The comparison was presented in a clear lusid form. Devoid of mumbo Jumbo Congratulations.
Great video, but I'll say the .357 magnum has a much bigger punch than the 9mm. The mid 300s (energy foot lbs) you got out of the snub nose are close to 9mm in a full size pistols. The 600s you got in the .357 5" were much higher numbers than I've ever seen in a 9mm.
Agreed. Based on this comparison though, .357s out of a 2" barrel aren't any more powerful than the 9mm+ps and, with some high-end loads like Buffalo Bore, they can actually outperform the .357s by a significant margin. So, is all that recoil worth it? If .357 mag is something I wanna actually carry around, I'd rather have a revolver with a 3" barrel. That extra inch in barrel length will make a huge difference over the 2" in velocity and muzzle energy.
My EDC is a Dagger Micro, Shield Plus or P365 AIWB but I just picked up a 340PD as a jacket pocket backup gun, transitioning to my anti-carjacker cross draw piece when behind the wheel and (as a 9mm pistol shooter) was wondering about which load to carry when this 3+ year old vid came up! This setup also makes interstate vacations a little easier to manage. Thanks for settling things for me 🙏
When I think of a wheel gun I think of using it at spitting distances. Greatest advantage of it is the reliability and the fact that you can put the muzzle on something without your firearm going out of battery (if someone is grappling with you). I'm not super worried about engaging someone 10 yards away or more or I'd be carrying a semi auto with much higher capacity
Sure the battery thing is mostly true, but you ignore the cylinder gap. You shoot a 357 mag with the gun close in like that you're likely to injure yourself badly. The out of battery thing can be in part solved by selection and completely solved by not pressing it into them. The gap issue can't be solved, the only way to safely fire a revolver is with it out front.
We need revolvers, among other designs, that have quick release barrels. More takedowns. Imagine turning a 2" into a 6" or into a smooth bore in a few seconds. (I've been informed that Dan Wesson did that.)
A good compromise round between these two for snubbies is 9mm. Arguably a ballistic sweet spot and the ammo is certainly affordable, available, and effective. That's what I'd pick for a moderately heavy snubnose revolver if I was shooting a lot and not reloading. Otherwise I like the .32 Magnum, especially for those extremely lightweight revolvers.
@@exothermal.sprocket Rounds in this light for size under 16 oz. snub nose are harder to produce good ballistic results with. When a full sized .357 fails to perform properly it seems to over-penetrate. With a snub nose, it tends to under penetrate. However, in real world self defense, the .357/.38 Special beats the 9mm out of the same size barrel. All handguns should have the mission of getting you to cover. If you need a 9mm capacity, it is because you are a bad shot and a danger to innocent bystanders.
Cops are a threat to public safety when they shoot 100 shots and hit no one they intended to: pamplinmedia.com/fgnt/36-news/127713-cannon-challenged-deputies-to-shoot-him
My mother owns this gun. Indeed the recoil with 357 is very jarring. However, my dad with his 67 years of wisdom has never loaded it with a 357 when she practiced. It is loaded with 357 at all other times. The idea being, in the moment, if she ever has to use it, the adrenaline will more than compensate for the additional recoil.
I love the 357....but i just cannot get past a finch i developed from shooting the round as a small kid and because of that i carry 38special! For my edc and carry my 357 when i go hunting or hiking deep in the woods or to like Atlanta 😂😂😂 My edc is a charter arms 38special undercover i inherited from my great grandfather. It was his back up duty weapon 4 qlmost 30byears. Great vid thanks
Thanks very much for an outstanding video. As a long time revolver shooter, you cover the actual real-world advantages and disadvantages between the two rounds. Well done !
@@johnqpublic2718 Wrong. The force is applied to the mass of the firearm. The weight of the firearm is the determining factor. See Chuck Hawks work. www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_recoil_table.htm
Mike you are a stud. Best advice in my opinion is advising MOST people not to shoot hot 357 mag out of S&W 340. It would pop out of MOST peoples hands with those rounds. Model 60 as you said is a different animal. Great info.
Thanks, Mr. Gunslinger, for another excellent video! I've been shooting .38 special out of my Taurus 856 for approximately two years now, and I've wondered if I should invest in a .357 revolver, if only to experience the variations in power, etc., at the range. This video certainly has me leaning forward, in that regard! Thanks again!
I was just thinking about revolvers and contrasting caliber performance in my brain as I stepped outside earlier with my .38 Taurus 685 PP loaded with standard pressure, 165 gr. Hornady Critical Defense rounds in my shorts pocket. A little bit of time later, here's a video on exactly that! Cool coincidence! Now, I'd like to go "arm up" to a hotter .38 round for less lousy performance values lol. I appreciate the useful, simple-to-digest information conveyed here. This is great to know for those carrying an old, but gold, snubby as a deep cover pocket "toss it in there and go" and/or backup handgun. To be there as a last resort, easier to employ alternative to a pistol that the mag release, or worse yet lighter-to-pull trigger, can get bumped and accidentally engaged from inside a pocket or beneath clothing like a uniform shirt over a concealed armor vest holster, pant leg concealing a boot-top ankle holster, or from under an outer coat.
I have a S&W 340PD. I had it ported and added an Ergo Delta grip. Full boat .357 still not fun to shoot but much more manageable than before. One thing to note when shooting .357 in such a light pistol. I have experienced bullet creep with several different brands of ammo. Something to think about in a self defense situation as the revolver locks up and won't fire.
@@JimmyDevere Barnes Tac-Xpd Defense .357 Magnum 125 grain. The casing cracked and the bullet protruded past the cylinder face. I contacted Barnes with pictures and the ammo lot numbers on the box and they sent me 2 free boxes of ammo but I’ll probably never shoot them in the this revolver. Even though the bullet weight was above the 120 grain weight I still have some cylinder face wear from the pressure melting off some of it so I’m only going to run 38sp in it. I would run half a box of whatever your are going to run in it at least shooting 1 handed as well. The recoil just launches the gun backward so fast “especially one handed firing” smaller weight bullets can’t hold on. Heavier bullets with more contact with the case and a good crimp are what I would highly recommend.
@@happyamerican3235 Thank you for the comment. I decided to just simplify things and go with the better trigger of the 442 Performance Center that this same reviewer also reviewed. I saw a video of Paul Harrel reviewing some amo for the 38sp and I saw the 158 gr Remington LRN performed well on the meat target with good shootability (recoil). Not sure how I feel about carrying it and there are other loads better for sure. Im going to try some Atomic and some Buffalo Bore but I have a feeling those may be more a little hot.
@@JimmyDevere 442 is a good one and still a light package. We have a couple and 158 grain runs the best. I’ve never had an issue with ammo in them. I like Hornady ammo because you can get it at most gun shops and online easily. Wilson combat makes a spring kit to soften up the heavy factory trigger pull. The 642 enhanced trigger model I will say is the smoothest factory trigger I have felt on a j frame smith. Very nice. I’ve not tried buffalo bore in anything. These guns are built well but I wouldn’t want the the stress of hot loads on the small alloy frame. Carry a bigger gun in the woods. I’ve found I like the speed strips better than speed loaders as well. Fit in your pocket well. I carry on the ankle with an uncle mikes size zero holster. Has held up well for several years of use and doesn’t break the bank.
I’ve got a kimber k6s snub, great gun but the Underwood loads really get your attention with the wood grips. 😆 I’ve got some full wrap Hogue’s on the way. Lol
I have the smith in the video and shot some Underwood extreme penetrators through it. I managed 4 before I quit. The recoil out of that is worse than a 460
Nice demonstration. Cut my firearm teeth on a couple Model 19's in the 70's & early 80's. Love, love, love the .357 Magnum so much I have a snubbie, a 4 inch and converted my G23 into a .357Sig, shooting 125 grain Gold Dots. The .357 mag or Sig is the round that will handle most anything in the lower 48.
I own .44mag, .45ACP, .357 mag, 10mm, .38 spl., 9mm, .380 and 22LR. My EDC (non-winter i.e. no coat, etc..) is my S&W 442 Airweight with Hornady's Critical Defense ammo, along with 2 extra Bianchi speed strips. In the winter I carry either my. 45acp S&W PC1911 5" barrel, .357mag S&S 686-6 3" barrell or my .44mag S&W 629 Deluxe 3" barrel. Nice to have choices! Oh yeah, sometimes in the summer Ill also mix in my Glock 43 9mm or my S&W Body .380 that fits into most small pockets as a secondary backup gun.
My interest in a .357 grew over the years and I got a .357 carbine and carried it as a truck gun. The velocity of the rifle bullet from a 20 inch barrel is somewhere around 500 fps faster than the same load from any of my handguns.
I have an M&P 340 that comes in at 13.8oz so it’s slightly heavier than the 11oz model. I haven’t noticed a major difference between 357 and 38 in terms of recoil when I compared them. This is good information. Is the trade in recoil and muzzle blast worth the added performance; you showed that it is.
Thank you for this video. Another informational video making it easy to understand. I've been on the hunt for another s&w 686 with the 6 inch barrel. Smooth, sexy and still affordable.
@@iliftthingsupandputthemdow4364 I can’t find .223, .38, 357 and some others. I wanna buy a henry side loader but there’s no damn 357 to shoot it with.
@@FishFind3000 i handloaded 158 grain hollow points for my 357. Do enough digging on internet you can find components to handload. Took me couple weeks to get what I needed.
The 357 Mag - 135 gr JHP - Speer Gold Dot - Short Barrel has 350 ft/lbs - a mild for .357 recoil with adequate penetration of 12.4-13.6" and adequate expansion to .55"
Nice Video. Love my model 60 with a 3in barrel. I carry with both calibers. thanks for the Video and hey I am a fan of whatever caliber that gets the job done.
I carry a S&W 640pro. I find it as comfortable to shoot in .357 mag as a small polymer 9mm's with good self defense rounds. Weight is your friend when shooting...it helps with recoil which means you are on target faster with follow up shots.
I carry the 125 grain .38 +p from underwood, they're the hornady xtp bullets, that's what I keep in my 442 smith with crimson trace grips on it, works for me.
I'm glad you mentioned that the recoil is punishing. I think it flat out hurts with 357 loads and still gets ones attention with 38 special. I much prefer a small 9mm like a Glock 43 with similar capacity to one of these revolvers. It doesn't hurt to shoot and it's quicker to reload provided you have extra magazines on hand.
Just thinking, isn’t it better to have a slower velocity in self defense rounds so theres no wasted energy when the bullet passes through a target? It makes sense that a slower round that would stop inside of a target transfers all of its energy into the target creating more destructive wound channels and shock. Just a thought! I carry a .38 with wadcutters, call me an old soul lol
I carry the 340 PD for protection. I love this gun so much I bought my wife one also. I use a light special at the range, and a 158g semi jacket .357 for carry. It’s so light it practically begs you to put it in your pocket. I trust this weapon. And that’s big.
Most people think that caliber power or projectile speed is everything and tend to forget that real life does not work like holywood, the most important thing is where the projectile hits. 357 tremendous caliber but not so tremendous if it hits the index. great video
My smith&Wesson 38 +p bodyguard snubby moves some metal fast it's not the best but it's my belly gun with a lazer. My edc is a ruger lc9s. Hope I never need them always glad to have them
Another problem with shooting the 357 in a defensive situation, especially indoors, is that the noise will likely blow out your eardrums. Stick with the 38 Special HST rounds.
I think the whole eardrums being blown out is overstated. I have been prone next to a guy firing a 240 without ear pro. While it was unpleasant, my eardrums were not blown out. I don't think a 357 mag even indoors is going to be louder than that.
Would less recoil come in to play when firing the 380 out of a small concealed carry semi-auto pistol, and a 357 pistol compared to the snub nose revolver making it actually be able to fire and hit on target?
It does. I used to own a S&W 340 PD and even with standard 38's it was a handful. I currently own a Beretta Pico 380 ACP that weighs the same as the 360. It's has far less felt recoil, and I can recover after a shot much faster. I can also practice more at a range session with the Pico. After a few cylinders in the 360 I didn't want to shoot it any more. Plus my shooting hand with get shaky, making practice a little pointless. I've shot 150 rounds through the Pico before it wore me out.
@@christophernemeth421 I also have a pico, love it because it's cute and can disappear in any pocket. I got some underwood +P that's rated at 1200 fps... Really wakes it up.
Agree with all Mike but what works best for me is to have a fav load in both chamberings and tailor the round to the situation of the day. If I’m in the car for most of the day I’ll load 38+p. The joy of.357 for me is this versatility.
My first Deer rifle was a .357 Mag, when i was 7 years old, it is a Pump action IMI Timber Wolf, and it is such quality! i Love it, it holds 11 .357 Mag rounds, such a fun gun to shoot!
Great video. I used to do a lot of chrono-testing myself but with 40 S-W acp out of many of my autoloaders. Now I am back to my revolvers having both a Colt detective special (38 spl) and a S&W 686-6 4”. I too used a Chrony (the older version - red) and have books and books of load-data and corresponding shooting data actually for 40 S&W acp as well as some 45 acp. So I’m anxious to get back out to the range with my revolvers. Take care, and 73, Tom, KC3QAC
I've watched a few of your videos, but I've taken more knowledge from this one than any other. I've subscribed to "the myth" for years, but your numbers don't lie. As a big .357 mag proponent, now I feel like I need to start shopping for my next 2" .357! lol I am also not very recoil sensitive but good stout 157gr out of a sp101 as my only experience was kind of unpleasant....fun, but unpleasant.
![Lp. Сердце Вселенной #60 РОЖДЕНИЕ ЛОЛОЛОШКИ [Финал] • Майнкрафт](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/YoR0pAV9FVQ/mqdefault.jpg)
I do believe the advantages of 357, but the recoil is too much for me. I have no problems admitting that.
In a medium frame revolver it’s ok. In a snub nose, it’s a little painful sometimes.
Everyone must fit their weapon to them, and anyone who tries to shoot too much gun is only fooling themselves.
Ruger LCR, not bad at all with full power loads.
@@thesmallestminorityisthein4045 correct. You must find the gun that fits your physical strength limits and features desired. My hot 357 is not everyone, but if all you can handle is a 22 lr, then do the best with it, practice.
@svtbansheeman I have a kimber k6s and even with the heavy steel frame and the fat rubber grip i put on it the 357s are still no fun to shoot lol
Very well demonstrated. Thanks for not bashing the efficacy of the .38 special round. I carry .38’s and am confidently accurate with them. I’m certain that being on the other end of what I’m shooting would be an awful place to be. With only one working hand and a J frame the .38 is a hit whereas the .357 is only a maybe.
It’s not so much that you can’t make a hit with the 357. Just that follow up shots are significantly slower with 357 because the muzzle jumps so much off target
@@strat1080 He spoke from his personal experience with being limited to only one hand. His statement is valid for his personal experience.
A 38.. as you know. A Cop gun for over
50 year's sure there our many under this 🪦🌹🪦 .
38. Great gun ..deadly
That view on your dock is priceless brother. Love your videos.
Good video! A good middle ground is Speer gold dot 135 grain low recoil.357 mag. It feels like a 38+p++ but performance is great.
Great video 👍🏻 I don't know where that myth started or why it became so prominent... Yes, shorter barrel reduces the gains you get with the 357 over 38spl, but fact is the 357 operates at significantly higher pressure to begin with regardless of barrel length. Solid advice about using what you can comfortably shoot. Well done Sir
Funny enough, I was looking at a 357 yesterday and today... excellent timing of this video!!!
Can't stop drooling over that 5" 686!
I have a 4in 686+. Highly recommended.
@@kanekadn5533 lmfao fuckin love this comment 🤣😂
I keep kicking myself for selling my 6" 686. The sucker had trigger work done on it and was sweet.
3-5-7 series 686 comes with 3" and 5" and 7" barrels, unfluted cylinder, and +1 capacity.
@@ryanweiss1721 I love my 3" 686+. I highly recommend it. 😉
I have an LCR in 357, my edc round is a 125 grain xtp in front of 21 grains of H110. At 7 yards it punched through a piece of guardrail, that’s all the math I need. Love your videos.
H110 is way to slow burning for such a short barrel. Half of that powder is flying out the pipe unburnt.
I love my 340PD for pocket carry and it always has 357 in it
Very informative, and awesome pointers, this really helped me decide my purchase thank you!
Glad it was helpful!
...I bought an M&P 340 a couple of years ago...and I'm IMPRESSED!!!
Always go for wheel gun in .357, u can always downsize the load, u can't go in reverse with .38
The word “Always” does not apply to all situations or personal preference or abilities.
But a constant diet of the shorter cartridge in the longer chamber results in more leading, more fouling and much more difficult cleaning!
Im pretty sure a 357 can “always” take 38 special. And that’s what he’s saying. It’s got nothing to do with preference or ability. Buy the 357 if you wanna shoot 38 shoot 38
I’ve been on the job over 25 years, and recently replaced my S&W 637 with a 360, and can verify this video is exactly why i did. Since i have been a ppc competitor years, and reload 38 target loads, practice with the pew pew loads is easy. The pick up in raw stopping power from the 357 is absolutely worth it. The S&W 360 series offers the exact same size, same weight or lighter, and double the power....it’s a no brainer!
Best part, no brass on the ground.
Leave the gun, take the cannoli
@@morganwells567 So many will not understand that......But I did and appreciate it.
@@morganwells567 +p g.father reference 😃👍
@@morganwells567 exactly what I thought of
Great topic. Keep up the good work
That was a real good summary comparing 357 to 9 mm and 38 special to 380.
Excellent video. I knew there would be a loss of velocity/energy with a snub but I think this video proves .357 even out of a short barrel can be an excellent carry choice. Thank you!
I keep my 340PD loaded w/+P b/c it’s too hard to get quick & accurate follow up shots w/.357. I survived three deadly attacks w/my issued thirty-eight and know it’s very capable of doing the job w/proper shot placement. You’re right, only hits count.
real world comment
I'm glad you're still with us. I agree that shot placement is critical. Modern training methods put too much emphasis on putting as many rounds downrange as fast as possible with the high capacity 9mm semi autos. We come from a time when we were taught to make every shot count. I'd be willing to bet you unconsciously count your shots, too. The younger instructors at the range give me a hard time about my .45 and the revolvers with their shorter round count. I usually counter with, " What if you've only got time for one shot?"
@ You’re right, I do count even when watching videos since my ‘97 retirement. I knew when my revolver ran dry in a ‘74 gunfight so I was able to reload quickly & get right back in the fight.
Nice review. I have a 360PD Smith and I shot one .357 thru it and that was enough for me! I carry 38 plus P. Thanks for sharing.
Every time I see you on the deck I wanna go fishing!
Gay fishing?
Useful information.
I split the difference and carry 110gr Hornady Critical Defense .38 +P loads in my new Taurus 605.
GREAT VID!!! People need this info because, as you pointed out, there is so much mis-information "out there." I've reloaded for several decades and I recall in interesting comparison in the old Speer #7 reloading manual from the 1960s (or 70s?). The folks at Speer made a similar point about 2 inch .38 vs .357 with handloads from their manual. As they pointed out, the .357 wasters a LOT of powder in muzzle flash - however it still had significantly more power than .38 Special loads when 2 inch barrels are used for both. For MY cup of tea, I'll leave full house .357s for heavier, all steel guns - I'm a few years past retirement age and recoil is becoming a factor. But I'm quite glad I can still shoot magnums at all! Thanks again / you do great vids.
Too much math I'll just take ur word for it 🤠🤙🇺🇸
nice video, well organized and informative. thank you for giving us the breakdown of data at the end without going overboard on details
The recoil of full 357's in an SP101 is fierce; can't even imagine those little scandium airweights.
It's brutal. I used to own an SP101 and there was definitely a difference between 38s and 357s. 357s out of a scandium framed pistol is ridiculous
Recoil on the 340PD is stout, but I've never once said to myself "Ughhh...I dont feel like carrying my 340PD today". Program compliance is way too easy with that gun.
Find you an aluminum bat. With your bare hand, swing that sucker with a hard grip on the handle against a heavy flag pole. That's about the sensation.
it's all about fit. really. I can fire a 3 inch sp101 with full house 357 more comfortably than I can a stock K frame in .357
Why?
the ruger **fits** - the smith (without modification) doesn't
I have the 340, it’s brutal!!
Have you noticed it when you express the caliber that you like or show people one of your favorite handguns all of a sudden you've got a Monday morning quarterback pocket expert that's one of the biggest critics that you've ever met
Love the channel by the way. And thank you for your service, one brother to another.
I have a S&W 340 PD. I put a set of Crimson Trace Lasergrips, the LG-405 with a air pocket on top of the backstrap that is said to reduces felt recoil up to 30%. I still find the 357 magnum to be a bit harsh but I can shoot 38 +P ammo accurately with both left and right hands. They did make a difference and their good for practicing that double action only trigger pull.
I own a S&W 329pd in 44 mag, and those ultra light revolvers are a completely different animal compared to steel frames. No matter what chambering and loading they are brutal, but they sure are fun to shoot for that very reason.
The clearest, to the point, objective narration and presentation that I have ever seen.
The comparison was presented in a clear lusid form. Devoid of mumbo Jumbo Congratulations.
Thanks for the well researched video. You helped me make an informed 38 special purchase.
Excellent info on the video as usual. Been on the fence for use for backup, inched me closer. Thanks
Great video, but I'll say the .357 magnum has a much bigger punch than the 9mm. The mid 300s (energy foot lbs) you got out of the snub nose are close to 9mm in a full size pistols. The 600s you got in the .357 5" were much higher numbers than I've ever seen in a 9mm.
Agreed. Based on this comparison though, .357s out of a 2" barrel aren't any more powerful than the 9mm+ps and, with some high-end loads like Buffalo Bore, they can actually outperform the .357s by a significant margin. So, is all that recoil worth it?
If .357 mag is something I wanna actually carry around, I'd rather have a revolver with a 3" barrel. That extra inch in barrel length will make a huge difference over the 2" in velocity and muzzle energy.
"Only hits count." Most intelligent comment I've heard all week on The UA-cam.
“Speed is fine, but Accuracy is final.” -Larry Vickers.
1 inch 5 shot groups at 21ft is not a problem with my Ruger LCR 357. I'd say that's accurate 😂 Mine is clocking 1200-1250fps with handloads.
Then you probably need to expand your recommendations
@@papimaximus95 Not in Anbar.
"You can't miss fast enough to win a gun fight."
The extra weight of my Ruger SP101 snubbie handles 357 pretty well. Still prefer +P in it though.
My EDC is a Dagger Micro, Shield Plus or P365 AIWB but I just picked up a 340PD as a jacket pocket backup gun, transitioning to my anti-carjacker cross draw piece when behind the wheel and (as a 9mm pistol shooter) was wondering about which load to carry when this 3+ year old vid came up! This setup also makes interstate vacations a little easier to manage. Thanks for settling things for me 🙏
When I think of a wheel gun I think of using it at spitting distances. Greatest advantage of it is the reliability and the fact that you can put the muzzle on something without your firearm going out of battery (if someone is grappling with you). I'm not super worried about engaging someone 10 yards away or more or I'd be carrying a semi auto with much higher capacity
Sure the battery thing is mostly true, but you ignore the cylinder gap. You shoot a 357 mag with the gun close in like that you're likely to injure yourself badly. The out of battery thing can be in part solved by selection and completely solved by not pressing it into them. The gap issue can't be solved, the only way to safely fire a revolver is with it out front.
We need revolvers, among other designs, that have quick release barrels. More takedowns. Imagine turning a 2" into a 6" or into a smooth bore in a few seconds. (I've been informed that Dan Wesson did that.)
They did diff length barrels
they were not what i would call quick release, and a smooth bore? that i doubt they'd ever do.
It did
@@litesronno1shome For the 410. Options. As many options as possible.
My 340pd had a quick release barrel. It went down range on video.
A good compromise round between these two for snubbies is 9mm. Arguably a ballistic sweet spot and the ammo is certainly affordable, available, and effective. That's what I'd pick for a moderately heavy snubnose revolver if I was shooting a lot and not reloading. Otherwise I like the .32 Magnum, especially for those extremely lightweight revolvers.
357 out of my snub nose makes me go "WHOOO" and in a self defense scenario, the fire ring could sent the attacker on fire
Flash-bang grenade that happens to have a bullet in it.
@@exothermal.sprocket Rounds in this light for size under 16 oz. snub nose are harder to produce good ballistic results with. When a full sized .357 fails to perform properly it seems to over-penetrate. With a snub nose, it tends to under penetrate. However, in real world self defense, the .357/.38 Special beats the 9mm out of the same size barrel. All handguns should have the mission of getting you to cover. If you need a 9mm capacity, it is because you are a bad shot and a danger to innocent bystanders.
Cops are a threat to public safety when they shoot 100 shots and hit no one they intended to:
pamplinmedia.com/fgnt/36-news/127713-cannon-challenged-deputies-to-shoot-him
@@JohnLloydScharf my opinion, no such thing as over penetration.
My mother owns this gun. Indeed the recoil with 357 is very jarring. However, my dad with his 67 years of wisdom has never loaded it with a 357 when she practiced. It is loaded with 357 at all other times. The idea being, in the moment, if she ever has to use it, the adrenaline will more than compensate for the additional recoil.
I love the 357....but i just cannot get past a finch i developed from shooting the round as a small kid and because of that i carry 38special! For my edc and carry my 357 when i go hunting or hiking deep in the woods or to like Atlanta 😂😂😂
My edc is a charter arms 38special undercover i inherited from my great grandfather.
It was his back up duty weapon 4 qlmost 30byears.
Great vid thanks
Thanks very much for an outstanding video. As a long time revolver shooter, you cover the actual real-world advantages and disadvantages between the two rounds. Well done !
Newton's Third Law can be a bit painful sometimes.
But the second has nothing to do with the force applied to the shooter's hand, wrist, arm........
@@johnqpublic2718 ?
@@johnqpublic2718 Wrong. The force is applied to the mass of the firearm. The weight of the firearm is the determining factor. See Chuck Hawks work. www.chuckhawks.com/handgun_recoil_table.htm
@@imnotbuddha He's trolling. When they use absolutes like "nothing," the probability is high they are an ignorant troll.
Thank you, great review and comparo. greetings from Still Bay , South Africa.
Mike you are a stud. Best advice in my opinion is advising MOST people not to shoot hot 357 mag out of S&W 340. It would pop out of MOST peoples hands with those rounds. Model 60 as you said is a different animal. Great info.
Nobody ever said: “Please don’t shoot me with the .357 Magnum!! Could you please shoot me with the .38 Special instead?”
Oswald said it. Regretted it, too.
True story.
Right, but the effectiveness of 38spl is not what is being talked about with this video.
Thanks, Mr. Gunslinger, for another excellent video! I've been shooting .38 special out of my Taurus 856 for approximately two years now, and I've wondered if I should invest in a .357 revolver, if only to experience the variations in power, etc., at the range. This video certainly has me leaning forward, in that regard! Thanks again!
Best snubby 38/357 comparison and explanation ever.
I was just thinking about revolvers and contrasting caliber performance in my brain as I stepped outside earlier with my .38 Taurus 685 PP loaded with standard pressure, 165 gr. Hornady Critical Defense rounds in my shorts pocket. A little bit of time later, here's a video on exactly that! Cool coincidence! Now, I'd like to go "arm up" to a hotter .38 round for less lousy performance values lol. I appreciate the useful, simple-to-digest information conveyed here. This is great to know for those carrying an old, but gold, snubby as a deep cover pocket "toss it in there and go" and/or backup handgun. To be there as a last resort, easier to employ alternative to a pistol that the mag release, or worse yet lighter-to-pull trigger, can get bumped and accidentally engaged from inside a pocket or beneath clothing like a uniform shirt over a concealed armor vest holster, pant leg concealing a boot-top ankle holster, or from under an outer coat.
Great video I like the way you explained the myths and proved them to be just myths. Very professional and skillful.
I have a S&W 340PD. I had it ported and added an Ergo Delta grip. Full boat .357 still not fun to shoot but much more manageable than before. One thing to note when shooting .357 in such a light pistol. I have experienced bullet creep with several different brands of ammo. Something to think about in a self defense situation as the revolver locks up and won't fire.
I also have had a bullet jump out of crimp and lock the cylinder from rotating. I’m sticking with 158 grain 38sp in my 360PD.
@@happyamerican3235 Are there particular brands of ammo you are having problems with?
@@JimmyDevere Barnes Tac-Xpd Defense .357 Magnum 125 grain. The casing cracked and the bullet protruded past the cylinder face. I contacted Barnes with pictures and the ammo lot numbers on the box and they sent me 2 free boxes of ammo but I’ll probably never shoot them in the this revolver. Even though the bullet weight was above the 120 grain weight I still have some cylinder face wear from the pressure melting off some of it so I’m only going to run 38sp in it. I would run half a box of whatever your are going to run in it at least shooting 1 handed as well. The recoil just launches the gun backward so fast “especially one handed firing” smaller weight bullets can’t hold on. Heavier bullets with more contact with the case and a good crimp are what I would highly recommend.
@@happyamerican3235 Thank you for the comment. I decided to just simplify things and go with the better trigger of the 442 Performance Center that this same reviewer also reviewed. I saw a video of Paul Harrel reviewing some amo for the 38sp and I saw the 158 gr Remington LRN performed well on the meat target with good shootability (recoil). Not sure how I feel about carrying it and there are other loads better for sure. Im going to try some Atomic and some Buffalo Bore but I have a feeling those may be more a little hot.
@@JimmyDevere 442 is a good one and still a light package. We have a couple and 158 grain runs the best. I’ve never had an issue with ammo in them. I like Hornady ammo because you can get it at most gun shops and online easily. Wilson combat makes a spring kit to soften up the heavy factory trigger pull. The 642 enhanced trigger model I will say is the smoothest factory trigger I have felt on a j frame smith. Very nice. I’ve not tried buffalo bore in anything. These guns are built well but I wouldn’t want the the stress of hot loads on the small alloy frame. Carry a bigger gun in the woods. I’ve found I like the speed strips better than speed loaders as well. Fit in your pocket well. I carry on the ankle with an uncle mikes size zero holster. Has held up well for several years of use and doesn’t break the bank.
I’ve got a kimber k6s snub, great gun but the Underwood loads really get your attention with the wood grips. 😆 I’ve got some full wrap Hogue’s on the way. Lol
I have the smith in the video and shot some Underwood extreme penetrators through it. I managed 4 before I quit. The recoil out of that is worse than a 460
I have the same gun. It's great!!! I once shot a cylinder full of 357's out of it. I'll never do that again. LOL
357 was developed in part to penetrate automobiles during the 1930s gangster era. Still a great choice for road rage settling.
357 was developed by Elmer Keith (originally as the 38/44) for hunting. Police work wasn't part of the equation until the 41 mag was being developed.
I prefer 357 Sig. Almost the same, with more rounds before reloading, and faster reloading.
.??
@@jacobackley502 and the police hated the almighty 41 😂
@@357-swagnumultramagax9 the poor 41, the redheaded stepchild of the magnums
Nice demonstration. Cut my firearm teeth on a couple Model 19's in the 70's & early 80's. Love, love, love the .357 Magnum so much I have a snubbie, a 4 inch and converted my G23 into a .357Sig, shooting 125 grain Gold Dots. The .357 mag or Sig is the round that will handle most anything in the lower 48.
Good test, interesting results. Thanks.
Thanks a lot for the review. Great analysis.
I own .44mag, .45ACP, .357 mag, 10mm, .38 spl., 9mm, .380 and 22LR. My EDC (non-winter i.e. no coat, etc..) is my S&W 442 Airweight with Hornady's Critical Defense ammo, along with 2 extra Bianchi speed strips. In the winter I carry either my. 45acp S&W PC1911 5" barrel, .357mag S&S 686-6 3" barrell or my .44mag S&W 629 Deluxe 3" barrel. Nice to have choices! Oh yeah, sometimes in the summer Ill also mix in my Glock 43 9mm or my S&W Body .380 that fits into most small pockets as a secondary backup gun.
Great info! Thanks for breaking it down!
Great video. This is one of those things you hear a lot... so it’s great to see some actual numbers.
This vid made me sub. Love revolvers and the .38Spec vs 357Mag discussion
My interest in a .357 grew over the years and I got a .357 carbine and carried it as a truck gun. The velocity of the rifle bullet from a 20 inch barrel is somewhere around 500 fps faster than the same load from any of my handguns.
I have an M&P 340 that comes in at 13.8oz so it’s slightly heavier than the 11oz model. I haven’t noticed a major difference between 357 and 38 in terms of recoil when I compared them. This is good information. Is the trade in recoil and muzzle blast worth the added performance; you showed that it is.
Consistent accuracy under all conditions is all that matters - think worse case scenario, weak hand only.
@Big Mike No, strong hand down for the count. Doh.
Thank you for this video. Another informational video making it easy to understand. I've been on the hunt for another s&w 686 with the 6 inch barrel. Smooth, sexy and still affordable.
Not burning up that precious 9mm and 5.56 these days. Smart.
You'd be surprised i just bought a 38. Spl revolver and can't find ANY ammo whereas the shops here have 9mm and 5.56
@@iliftthingsupandputthemdow4364 false
@@iliftthingsupandputthemdow4364 I can’t find .223, .38, 357 and some others. I wanna buy a henry side loader but there’s no damn 357 to shoot it with.
@@FishFind3000 i handloaded 158 grain hollow points for my 357. Do enough digging on internet you can find components to handload. Took me couple weeks to get what I needed.
@@joelruder2857 I’ve got two 38’s and no 357, however I have plenty of components to load them.
Paul Harrell did a great presentation on this same conundrum.
The 357 Mag - 135 gr JHP - Speer Gold Dot - Short Barrel has 350 ft/lbs - a mild for .357 recoil with adequate penetration of 12.4-13.6" and adequate expansion to .55"
Thank you for this educational video.
Nice Video. Love my model 60 with a 3in barrel. I carry with both calibers. thanks for the Video and hey I am a fan of whatever caliber that gets the job done.
The 357 nay sayers act like the extra flash and concussion isn't useful. But when you want to flashbang the guy your shooting it's a win/win.
Flashbangs work both ways
Awesome video! 340pd is my favorite and most carried revolver. 2nd is 327pc.
Great video like always. Just picked up a pocket rocket myself
I carry a S&W 640pro. I find it as comfortable to shoot in .357 mag as a small polymer 9mm's with good self defense rounds. Weight is your friend when shooting...it helps with recoil which means you are on target faster with follow up shots.
I carry the 125 grain .38 +p from underwood, they're the hornady xtp bullets, that's what I keep in my 442 smith with crimson trace grips on it, works for me.
Very informative! Thank you!
I'm glad you mentioned that the recoil is punishing. I think it flat out hurts with 357 loads and still gets ones attention with 38 special. I much prefer a small 9mm like a Glock 43 with similar capacity to one of these revolvers. It doesn't hurt to shoot and it's quicker to reload provided you have extra magazines on hand.
Thank you for trimming your beard, and another nerdy video that i love you for.
Just thinking, isn’t it better to have a slower velocity in self defense rounds so theres no wasted energy when the bullet passes through a target? It makes sense that a slower round that would stop inside of a target transfers all of its energy into the target creating more destructive wound channels and shock. Just a thought! I carry a .38 with wadcutters, call me an old soul lol
Excellent , this is extremely useful info , thank you !!
I carry the 340 PD for protection. I love this gun so much I bought my wife one also. I use a light special at the range, and a 158g semi jacket .357 for carry. It’s so light it practically begs you to put it in your pocket. I trust this weapon. And that’s big.
Most people think that caliber power or projectile speed is everything and tend to forget that real life does not work like holywood, the most important thing is where the projectile hits. 357 tremendous caliber but not so tremendous if it hits the index.
great video
Thank you for your insights. Preciate ya.
Cool... .38 Special +Ps seem to be a good middle ground round to me, for defense. Powerful enough, but still controllable for most people.
My smith&Wesson 38 +p bodyguard snubby moves some metal fast it's not the best but it's my belly gun with a lazer. My edc is a ruger lc9s. Hope I never need them always glad to have them
Another problem with shooting the 357 in a defensive situation, especially indoors, is that the noise will likely blow out your eardrums. Stick with the 38 Special HST rounds.
From experience I can say that indoors the smoke is a bigger issue than the noise.
What if you’re already like 2/3 deaf??
I think the whole eardrums being blown out is overstated. I have been prone next to a guy firing a 240 without ear pro. While it was unpleasant, my eardrums were not blown out. I don't think a 357 mag even indoors is going to be louder than that.
@Scott Phipps same and I hurried and found some crusty ahhhh foam ones in this guard tower to throw in my ears.
What a horrible advice that could get someone killed. Would your rather be deaf or dead?
Would less recoil come in to play when firing the 380 out of a small concealed carry semi-auto pistol, and a 357 pistol compared to the snub nose revolver making it actually be able to fire and hit on target?
It does. I used to own a S&W 340 PD and even with standard 38's it was a handful.
I currently own a Beretta Pico 380 ACP that weighs the same as the 360. It's has far less felt recoil, and I can recover after a shot much faster.
I can also practice more at a range session with the Pico. After a few cylinders in the 360 I didn't want to shoot it any more. Plus my shooting hand with get shaky, making practice a little pointless. I've shot 150 rounds through the Pico before it wore me out.
@@christophernemeth421 I also have a pico, love it because it's cute and can disappear in any pocket. I got some underwood +P that's rated at 1200 fps... Really wakes it up.
@@Therealfrenchiedad the Pico is a great little gun. Built like a tank
"Blastier" I love that. Salute!
Agree with all Mike but what works best for me is to have a fav load in both chamberings and tailor the round to the situation of the day. If I’m in the car for most of the day I’ll load 38+p. The joy of.357 for me is this versatility.
The only real advantage I see in 357 snubbies over 38s is for hiking or camping in bear territory. Thank for sharing.
And about double the foot pounds of energy 😂
A 357 in a snubby would be better than a sharp stick against a bear, but you would probably be under gunned and eaten for lunch.
@@billjohnsonseattleWhat if it's an arthritic Panda bear?
My first Deer rifle was a .357 Mag, when i was 7 years old, it is a Pump action IMI Timber Wolf, and it is such quality! i Love it, it holds 11 .357 Mag rounds, such a fun gun to shoot!
Good video. Thanks for doing the comparison. Wonder how much the gap would close if you used 38 special +p ammo…
Most gun fights are very close in distance. The awe and shock of the 340 is his significant advantage. It does shooter with that insane recoil
Great video. I used to do a lot of chrono-testing myself but with 40 S-W acp out of many of my autoloaders. Now I am back to my revolvers having both a Colt detective special (38 spl) and a S&W 686-6 4”. I too used a Chrony (the older version - red) and have books and books of load-data and corresponding shooting data actually for 40 S&W acp as well as some 45 acp. So I’m anxious to get back out to the range with my revolvers. Take care, and 73, Tom, KC3QAC
Thank you very much for another well done and informative video.
I just can't get over the beautiful view you have on a dock to your house...
Well done. Thank you
Love the whiteboard of knowledge
Good information here👍🏼
That 130gr hydrashok load is what I keep in my sp101
Great analysis
I've watched a few of your videos, but I've taken more knowledge from this one than any other. I've subscribed to "the myth" for years, but your numbers don't lie. As a big .357 mag proponent, now I feel like I need to start shopping for my next 2" .357! lol I am also not very recoil sensitive but good stout 157gr out of a sp101 as my only experience was kind of unpleasant....fun, but unpleasant.