Thanks for making the video. The general thoughts suggest... once water gets in and particularly when it freezes, it ruptures more cells and the saturation grows in this manner,. More and more and more. My 19' boat had several hundred pounds in soaked foam, even the gunnels were soaked. But my boat was 50+ years old.
With the foam, if you need to trim or cut of excess, to ensure a level surface, make sure to apply a couple coats of epoxy resin to seal the exposed internal cells before closing up floors and other panels. Water will not penetrate.
I started watching your videos because I was given a '77 Johnson 9.9 (with a questionable history) that hadn't ran for 3 years. Thanks for your informative videos! I was able to get it running great! Now that the outboard runs, I'm working on restoring, updating, and repairing a '77 Alumacraft 14' boat that I found on craigslist. Excited to find your other videos like this one!
Thanks for doing this. I have a 35 year-old bass boat where the factory installed poured foam under the aluminum floor was easily saturated with over 200lbs (probably a lot more) of water. I only figured this out after a broken axle and noticing that it was becoming difficult to lift the tongue of the trailer. I think that the very rare exposure to an occasional spilled splash of gasoline probably made things worse. I have it all removed at the moment and getting it all out was a big messy job. I’m leaning toward the pink foam from Home Depot and empty plastic tonic water bottles.
just bought an old v hull and the floor has spray foam under it. it's a mess and proabably easily adds a couple hundred pounds if it runs throughout. not sure what the solution is but I won't be putting that foam anywhere water can run. once the barrier is broken, it holds the water forever. plywood that was sitting on it was damp to touch a week after being around any water.
I thought pool noodles would work well but I was wrong. Not only will they hold water, they also deteriorate into a sludge mess. Definitely don't choose pool noodles!
Cut open to expose open cells and submerged for a week. I'd have expected the same results. The thing about foam that is required in small boats is that it is expected that the boat will be towed or bailed rather quickly - within a few hours. I turn Grumman canoes into sailing trimarans of moderate to good performance. They get wet. My current fleet of two are quite old, and have the old school styrofoam in the end chambers. This type of foam is known to degrade in its ability to displace water, as it absorbs moisture from the air over may years. I suspect there are quite a few perfectly good old aluminum boats at the bottom of ponds and lakes. I replace the flotation with polyethylene, which is what most boats now have. It's the same stuff in the throwable seat cushions and cheap orange life jackets. It also absorbs water over time, but it's not meant to float forever, just long enough to keep you alive until rescued.
Need to wrap in fibreglass then do the test. The foam in reality is cased in Fibre or contained in a capsule of non-pouris material. It is not generally exposed by itself to the water. The reality test should actually be if it aids floatation cased in a non-permeable membrane. If water gets inside the hull then any material will absorb the water due to capillary action.
This test isn't reliable due to variations in foam size and weight. Additionally, the bottom foam experienced more pressure, and the largest piece collected the most water, which wasn't surprising.
Thanks for taking the time to make the video. This was very interesting. I need to restore a boat and I'm looking into using that foam under the seats as flotation devices!
Excellent test. Thank you for taking the time. It would be interesting to see how fast each one can dry out. They say you'll never get the water out, but it'll dry out in time. Granted a video I saw about restoring a pelican bass raider mentioned that it took several months for the foam blocks to mostly dry out sitting sitting in the sun. I'm willing to bet that a solar dehydrator made to fit those sizes would work much faster!
I think you are right, their should be a way to get the water back out. On my robalo boat the foam was in water trapped in the bilge. It did take a long time to dry after I opened it up.
It WILL NEVER DRY OUT. I put the soaked foam from my 1969 Mako in a trailer and covered it up to protect from rain. It set all summer in NC 90-100F days. (Months) It never dried out could still mash Gobs, Mass amounts of water out. If you ask or poke around boat building forums,. Guys that know and think they could kiln dry it out and guys thought wet vacs would pull it out. Wrong, wrong and wrong.. You sir are also wrong,.(i don't mean that ugly) it will not dry out... ever. maybe a few "years" in arizona but it would take YEARS. @@OmFishing
Great video I will be using epoxy cover all of the foam to be sure this don't happen to my boat. Its too expensive rebuilding boat floor and stringers and a whole of time and learning and tools it just goes on and on it seems but for me it is a project and its fun until you find out something like this when it is too late but thankfully I saw this video before it was too late for me.
Ii would be interested if you are correct about the cut areas absorbing water. Another experiment would be trying a piece not cut and do the same thing. Actually I am not sure if it would make much difference. Many old boats being redone, never submerged, have wet foam just from rain, water being dripped into the boat from swimmers etc or even bilge water. Informative experiment to see nevertheless.
As your boat gets old. I guess just with changing weather and moisture the foam starts cracking. So eventually the membrane will always be broken. I’m having that issue with my boat. I bought it new 10 years ago. Just like one of the previous comments. The persons boat had 200 pounds of water. There really needs to be a better foam product marketed. Maybe there is.
Styrofoam and great stuff both will absorb water. You need closed cell foam. It is more expensive. You could also put sealed plastic 2liter bottles in your boat.
do not cut the top of the foam off. lund did this when they build my boat and water got inside the foam and rotted my marine wood floors. when I tore up my floor there were 3 places where lund sprayed in too much foam and they simply cut the tops off and that's wh ere the rot was . it eventually spreads to the entire floor. thanks a lot lund.
I though the newer foams would be ok to cut the cells. As it turned out I would not cut it again. Just make sure you add a little at a time. My test did hold some water at the cut cells. Thanks for the information.
How about testing foam for fuel resistance? I lifted the floor of my 5.2 metre centre console boat to do some rewiring. I found that nearly all of the foam had dissolved with only 2" left of the top near the flooring. The rest of the foam was sitting on the hull melted into a hard plastic sheet about 1/8" high. I figured that there must have been a fuel leak at some point which melted the foam. The fuel would have floated on any bilge water therefore lifting it or splashing it up high. The foam used in the boat was styrofoam (polystyrene). I wonder how many boats are out there that have the same issue as mine had. This would have been disasterous if swamped and offshore.
What are your thought about putting a thick trash bag in the opening then pour the foam IN the bag? Then when it's done expanding, cut off the excess and seal up the bag real good? That way no water could penetrate the foam and cause it to be waterlogged. Thoughts????
Informative but.. to be more precise you should have used the same size of both foams, example 1 sq ft to 1 sq ft. each in inch thick etc. Yo started with more weight and size on one then the other so of course it is going to weigh more and be able to soak up more water. You an make another but use example the same size mold for each different foam so they are the exact same size and shape.
If you have a chance can you please do a test with (1) boat foam wrapped in poor man's fiberglass and (2) boat foam wrapped in fiberglass? Thx. Your test was interesting. But it sounds like the regular foam went up in weight by about 500% and the boat foam went up by about 60%. Neither one went up by exactly 100%. Also the boat foam was much bigger so although it went up by about 100 grams that is much less saturation than the regular foam that went up by like 450 grams. I know I didn't get the exact numbers. Anyway very interesting. Makes a good case for using boat foam although it's way better to keep it dry if you can.
@@OmFishing Also I'm concerned about flammability, don't know if you can do a test comparing fiberglass polyester resin with fiberglass and epoxy. Maybe boat foam wrapped in each. Also gel coat. I want to make a little houseboat and I want to design in some fire resistance. Sorry to bug you, thanks for considering my suggestions
I put a lite coat of the foam on the cut areas to seal the open cells. I was trying to come up with something to seal the cells like paint or something but I just used a light coat of foam to seal.
LOL if this would have worked this could have been the life boat of the future. You get in trouble off shore you throw a capsule of this in the water instant life raft. Back to the drawing board.
Most form will float that is not the problem. Some foam will absorb water in time and not float any more. That is why you have to make sure you are using the right kind of foam. In some old boats when you check the foam it is full of water and would do no good for buoyancy. I bought my foam from US Composents they have a lot of information about the different foams.
I used liquid urethane expanding foam. I buy most of my stuff from US Composents. This foam is the (U.S. Coast Guard Compliant Marine Foam). Thanks for watching and Stay Safe.
Haha EPS foam (white) or polyurethane (yellowish) will not “absorb” water! The water molecules will go between the beads/cells. EPS is not closed cell, it will always trap more moisture!!!! Not sure what you are trying to teach?
I was just testing the foam. In my old Robalo boat when I removed the foam it was full of water. I wanted to see if Under water for a long period of time would the cell fill with water.
Thanks for making the video.
The general thoughts suggest... once water gets in and particularly when it freezes, it ruptures more cells and the saturation grows in this manner,. More and more and more.
My 19' boat had several hundred pounds in soaked foam, even the gunnels were soaked. But my boat was 50+ years old.
With the foam, if you need to trim or cut of excess, to ensure a level surface, make sure to apply a couple coats of epoxy resin to seal the exposed internal cells before closing up floors and other panels.
Water will not penetrate.
Thanks for the tip.
I started watching your videos because I was given a '77 Johnson 9.9 (with a questionable history) that hadn't ran for 3 years. Thanks for your informative videos! I was able to get it running great! Now that the outboard runs, I'm working on restoring, updating, and repairing a '77 Alumacraft 14' boat that I found on craigslist. Excited to find your other videos like this one!
Happy to help and thanks for sharing. Let me know how it turns out for you. Stay Safe!!
Thanks for doing this. I have a 35 year-old bass boat where the factory installed poured foam under the aluminum floor was easily saturated with over 200lbs (probably a lot more) of water. I only figured this out after a broken axle and noticing that it was becoming difficult to lift the tongue of the trailer. I think that the very rare exposure to an occasional spilled splash of gasoline probably made things worse. I have it all removed at the moment and getting it all out was a big messy job. I’m leaning toward the pink foam from Home Depot and empty plastic tonic water bottles.
Pink foam is not petrol safe, use polyethylene. pool noodles can work well.
just bought an old v hull and the floor has spray foam under it. it's a mess and proabably easily adds a couple hundred pounds if it runs throughout. not sure what the solution is but I won't be putting that foam anywhere water can run. once the barrier is broken, it holds the water forever. plywood that was sitting on it was damp to touch a week after being around any water.
I thought pool noodles would work well but I was wrong. Not only will they hold water, they also deteriorate into a sludge mess. Definitely don't choose pool noodles!
Cut open to expose open cells and submerged for a week. I'd have expected the same results. The thing about foam that is required in small boats is that it is expected that the boat will be towed or bailed rather quickly - within a few hours. I turn Grumman canoes into sailing trimarans of moderate to good performance. They get wet. My current fleet of two are quite old, and have the old school styrofoam in the end chambers. This type of foam is known to degrade in its ability to displace water, as it absorbs moisture from the air over may years. I suspect there are quite a few perfectly good old aluminum boats at the bottom of ponds and lakes. I replace the flotation with polyethylene, which is what most boats now have. It's the same stuff in the throwable seat cushions and cheap orange life jackets.
It also absorbs water over time, but it's not meant to float forever, just long enough to keep you alive until rescued.
Thanks
If I was stuck somewhere treading water I'd still grab any one of those foam pieces if they were floating by!
Great test and information.
Thanks for watching and Stay Safe.
P.S. Me Too
Need to wrap in fibreglass then do the test. The foam in reality is cased in Fibre or contained in a capsule of non-pouris material. It is not generally exposed by itself to the water. The reality test should actually be if it aids floatation cased in a non-permeable membrane. If water gets inside the hull then any material will absorb the water due to capillary action.
This test isn't reliable due to variations in foam size and weight. Additionally, the bottom foam experienced more pressure, and the largest piece collected the most water, which wasn't surprising.
Thanks for taking the time to make the video. This was very interesting. I need to restore a boat and I'm looking into using that foam under the seats as flotation devices!
I hope you video your project I would like to see it. Keep watching and stay safe.
Excellent test. Thank you for taking the time.
It would be interesting to see how fast each one can dry out. They say you'll never get the water out, but it'll dry out in time. Granted a video I saw about restoring a pelican bass raider mentioned that it took several months for the foam blocks to mostly dry out sitting sitting in the sun.
I'm willing to bet that a solar dehydrator made to fit those sizes would work much faster!
I think you are right, their should be a way to get the water back out. On my robalo boat the foam was in water trapped in the bilge. It did take a long time to dry after I opened it up.
It WILL NEVER DRY OUT.
I put the soaked foam from my 1969 Mako in a trailer and covered it up to protect from rain.
It set all summer in NC 90-100F days. (Months)
It never dried out could still mash Gobs, Mass amounts of water out.
If you ask or poke around boat building forums,. Guys that know and think they could kiln dry it out and guys thought wet vacs would pull it out.
Wrong, wrong and wrong..
You sir are also wrong,.(i don't mean that ugly) it will not dry out... ever. maybe a few "years" in arizona but it would take YEARS. @@OmFishing
Saturated foam popped right up😊
I think someone answered it in the comments. Epoxy resin
Great video I will be using epoxy cover all of the foam to be sure this don't happen to my boat. Its too expensive rebuilding boat floor and stringers and a whole of time and learning and tools it just goes on and on it seems but for me it is a project and its fun until you find out something like this when it is too late but thankfully I saw this video before it was too late for me.
Happy to help. Thanks for the comment.
Thank You ,I am going to fit a new deck soon and have not yet made up my mind , this helps for sure .
That's why you should only use epe expanded polyethylene for marine bouyancy foam. Newer 2 pack or polystyrene.
Yes using the right stuff is a must.
How can you reseal the foam.
My boats foam is cracking and water is penetrating the foam. Thank you. Great video
Very informative video. Thank you for making it.
Glad it was helpful! Stay Safe!!
Ii would be interested if you are correct about the cut areas absorbing water. Another experiment would be trying a piece not cut and do the same thing. Actually I am not sure if it would make much difference. Many old boats being redone, never submerged, have wet foam just from rain, water being dripped into the boat from swimmers etc or even bilge water. Informative experiment to see nevertheless.
As your boat gets old. I guess just with changing weather and moisture the foam starts cracking. So eventually the membrane will always be broken. I’m having that issue with my boat. I bought it new 10 years ago. Just like one of the previous comments. The persons boat had 200 pounds of water. There really needs to be a better foam product marketed. Maybe there is.
Styrofoam and great stuff both will absorb water. You need closed cell foam. It is more expensive. You could also put sealed plastic 2liter bottles in your boat.
Thanks for the tip. Stay Safe!!
All two part foams will absorb water. read the data sheets.
Thank you very much for this good test , I wish your write the numbers before and after in the description
When I was testing the foam I was sure that at the end the numbers would be the same. That was a surprise to me at the end.
Thank you again Sir for a very informative video
Thanks! stay safe on the water.
do not cut the top of the foam off. lund did this when they build my boat and water got inside the foam and rotted my marine wood floors. when I tore up my floor there were 3 places where lund sprayed in too much foam and they simply cut the tops off and that's wh
ere the rot was . it eventually spreads to the entire floor. thanks a lot lund.
I though the newer foams would be ok to cut the cells. As it turned out I would not cut it again. Just make sure you add a little at a time. My test did hold some water at the cut cells. Thanks for the information.
How about testing foam for fuel resistance?
I lifted the floor of my 5.2 metre centre console boat to do some rewiring. I found that nearly all of the foam had dissolved with only 2" left of the top near the flooring. The rest of the foam was sitting on the hull melted into a hard plastic sheet about 1/8" high. I figured that there must have been a fuel leak at some point which melted the foam. The fuel would have floated on any bilge water therefore lifting it or splashing it up high. The foam used in the boat was styrofoam (polystyrene). I wonder how many boats are out there that have the same issue as mine had. This would have been disasterous if swamped and offshore.
Thanks for the good idea. I have seen that before myself. Thanks for sharing that with us. Take care and stay safe.
thanks for all your time
Happy to help.
Thanks for making the video.
that is interesting. So I should probably not cut it off the top next time.
What are your thought about putting a thick trash bag in the opening then pour the foam IN the bag?
Then when it's done expanding, cut off the excess and seal up the bag real good?
That way no water could penetrate the foam and cause it to be waterlogged.
Thoughts????
I think that is a great idea. Two heads are better than one.
@@OmFishing I ended up putting 1'' closed cell styrofoam vertical under my boat seats.
Closed cell won't hold water.
@@timgiles9413 Good idea. Stay Safe
Thanks for that experiment.
Thanks for watching and commenting!!!
For a boat that is dry docked, floatation foam is the way to go. For a boat that lives in the water, bulkheads and pumps are ideal.
You are right floatation foam is not for all boats. Thanks for commenting.
So the foam is more for emergency purposes then performance?
Informative but.. to be more precise you should have used the same size of both foams, example 1 sq ft to 1 sq ft. each in inch thick etc. Yo started with more weight and size on one then the other so of course it is going to weigh more and be able to soak up more water. You an make another but use example the same size mold for each different foam so they are the exact same size and shape.
I was wanting to fill my 55 gallon drums with spray foam
If you have a chance can you please do a test with (1) boat foam wrapped in poor man's fiberglass and (2) boat foam wrapped in fiberglass? Thx.
Your test was interesting. But it sounds like the regular foam went up in weight by about 500% and the boat foam went up by about 60%. Neither one went up by exactly 100%. Also the boat foam was much bigger so although it went up by about 100 grams that is much less saturation than the regular foam that went up by like 450 grams. I know I didn't get the exact numbers. Anyway very interesting. Makes a good case for using boat foam although it's way better to keep it dry if you can.
Thanks for watching and for the idea for future videos.
@@OmFishing Also I'm concerned about flammability, don't know if you can do a test comparing fiberglass polyester resin with fiberglass and epoxy. Maybe boat foam wrapped in each. Also gel coat. I want to make a little houseboat and I want to design in some fire resistance. Sorry to bug you, thanks for considering my suggestions
thanks for the info
Simply outstanding!👍👍👍
Thank you so much 😀Stay Safe!!!
Find a way to seal up your pieces. Coat, contain it so it doesn't get wet. Spray some of that water shedding stuff all over and try them.
I put a lite coat of the foam on the cut areas to seal the open cells. I was trying to come up with something to seal the cells like paint or something but I just used a light coat of foam to seal.
@@OmFishing garbage bag, plastic of the stretch variety. Then seal that . Just brainstorming 😂
Great job
Thanks for watching and stay safe on the water!!
You should dry it with towel
Nice test. How about a Robalo update video?
Good job thanks this was great. God bless
What about cork?
Hey, great idea... My wife has a ton of old wine bottle corks 😆
Thanks for the video
Thanks for watching and Stay Safe
286 to 374 The white foam went from 44g to 272, seems obvious which is better haha
LOL if this would have worked this could have been the life boat of the future. You get in trouble off shore you throw a capsule of this in the water instant life raft. Back to the drawing board.
Check out my other foam video and this comment will make sense.
nice test
thank u
Thanks for watching and stay safe!!
Thanks. Interesting.
Thanks for watching and commenting!!
Soda bottles maybe, certainly cheap.
That can work too. Thanks for watching.
does polyethylene form also have buoyancy(flotation)?
Most form will float that is not the problem. Some foam will absorb water in time and not float any more. That is why you have to make sure you are using the right kind of foam. In some old boats when you check the foam it is full of water and would do no good for buoyancy. I bought my foam from US Composents they have a lot of information about the different foams.
Om Fishing Thanks for giving answer. A lot helpfull
polyethylene is the choice to use.
nice horse
The horse is Joe. He keeps a eye on me to make sure I am doing it right.
Wil NOT put that in my boat! Seen too many rotten out boats ful of water with that shit in the hull
What brand of foam did you use?
I used liquid urethane expanding foam. I buy most of my stuff from US Composents. This foam is the (U.S. Coast Guard Compliant Marine Foam). Thanks for watching and Stay Safe.
Give weight measurements in pounds and ounces grams don't tell anything
Haha EPS foam (white) or polyurethane (yellowish) will not “absorb” water! The water molecules will go between the beads/cells. EPS is not closed cell, it will always trap more moisture!!!! Not sure what you are trying to teach?
I was just testing the foam. In my old Robalo boat when I removed the foam it was full of water. I wanted to see if Under water for a long period of time would the cell fill with water.
So basically it would just gather water but it would make a huge difference if it was sealed in
So what have we learned from this video guy just make sure you don’t ever Drown your boats😂
What we learned was don't leave water in the bilge of the boat. It will compromise the buoyancy of the form