What if Germany Colonized South America
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- Опубліковано 15 лип 2024
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If you look at certain parts of South America, there's an undeniable German influence. But, how on earth did that happen? In fact, the answer stems back centuries. Numerous different influences, from 16th Century German Bankers, to Prussian colonists in Chile, to immigrants after World War One and World War Two. But, if German influence in South America was so strong, how come they never set up a state colony? And, what if they did colonize South America? Enjoy!
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0:00 Introduction
0:39 Background
6:37 Sponsor
7:49 Recap
8:06 Scenario
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Cool😊😊😊
What if Britian Colonized Argentina.
This almost happened. After all, the king of Spain when America was first being colonized by Spaniards was also the German Emperor. If he allowed people other than Castilians to colonize the New World, you'd have Belgians, Aragonese, Sicilians, Northern Italians, Bavarians, Austrians, and many others be all over the Americas all the way back in the 1500s.
Yeah he says that in the video
He was not the German Emperor as Germany didn’t exist during his time. I think you meant Holy Roman Emperor.
@@CoolNinja925 The full title of it is the Holy Roman Empire of the German nation. And almost all the Emperors were German.
@@HolyknightVader999 Still wasn't a unified Germany. The most accurate title is thus Holy Roman Emperor.
@@michiru2hell They called the HR Emperor the German Emperor in those days. That, and the Second Reich is literally just a Protestant equivalent of the HRE.
My Argentine grandpa, Aldofo Hitlieri, loved this video
6:25 The actual reason of the Prussian styled military in Chile, has starts in the victorian era. One of the most important wars in the history of Chile was called the "Pacific War", a war between Chile versus Peru & Bolivia. Long story short, the Chileans won the war and took Bolivia's coast away. After the war, the Chilean military was exhausted, so the Military decided to hire some Prussian Veteran Officers, one of them being Captain Emil Körner Henze
Interestingly Boliva still has a Navy just no ships or ports to use lol 😆
Implying the south american powers (Argentina, Brazil and Chile) would just sit idly by and let two foreign powers from another hemisphere fight for a big chunk of land right next to them. This ain't the scramble of africa, bro
Argentina, Chile and the Brazilian empire would form a coalition to stop any foreign attempts of colonization there
I disagree. They wouldn't be able to stop them even if they wanted. Paraguay a barely more industrialized country than the others South American countries was able to fight Brazil and Argentina seeing initial success. Paraguay at the time had less than 200k people. So with German support the colony would thrive until American intervention.
@@fhenik3692you ignore that Paraguay lost due to manpower issues, not industry problems. The armies of Brazil and Argentina simply swarmed the Paraguayans into defeat.
The other thing to know, is that these 3 were actual regional powers, to the level of the US in their respective hemisphere.
They would end up having a naval race and everything with dreadnoughts.
Also that Argentina became one of the richests countries in the world.
So no, the South americans were far from weak, and had home advantage, the reason they could conquer Patagonia and others didn't.
Josh also forgets to mention that the patagonia is a very harsh enviroment, so a colony there would need a lot of supplies and reinforcements, something Chile and Argentina could do due to being close by.
I think a more interesting scenario to explore would be if the Prussian Scheme had succeeded, and the United States had become a monarchy under Prince Henry of Prussia.
Do you have sources of that
@@SrLx1
Here you can find 7 different sources: en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Prussian_scheme
It seems it probably was just a rumor but no one is sure
I actually have a Alternate history video on that LOL don’t watch it tho it’s horrible.
OK the video is meant as a joke! Because it was not until 1871 that the unified German state came into being. Before that there were various German small states and they were too weak to acquire colonies. There was actually a pitiful failed attempt to colonize the area of Venezuela by a German banker and merchant family from Augsburg in 1528 which was described in the video. That was the pathetic attempt of the Germans to colonize South America. In the 19th century, serious German attempts at colonization of South America would mean war with the United States. Because according to the Monroe Doctrine it holds that any intervention in the political affairs of the Americas by foreign powers is a potentially hostile act against the United States. So the United States foreign policy position that opposes European colonialism in the Western Hemisphere.
With the US military in 1914 being both small and without preparedness, the campaign in Patagonia is a complete disaster that results in Wilson being kicked out of office (at least something good comes out of all this).
Any early US intervention in WWI would end BADLY for the Americans.
Yes USA would need tons of time to build up since their standing army was only around the size of Bulgaria's at the time if I remember correctly
It was small because the US had no real antagonistic relationships with anyone at the time, and was physically isolated from all peer powers. In a scenario like this, where neither of these were really true anymore the size of the military would be much larger. Even in our real timeline it wasn't all that true, the US military was small by the Standards of Great Powers, but was still large enough for a numerically based Doctrine of Overwhelming force to be it's go to against, literally anyone else
@@RandyrheBlackKnight Granted that they have a larger military, the American situation gets more complicated; they would enter the war believing it would be over soon (like everybody else did), only to face the full horror of what they got themselves into early in the war.
The Americans have not been attacked, Germany was not a threath to the US mainland, at the end of the day the determination to keep fighting over faraway Patagonia will run out. Wilson could easily lose re-election in 1916 (almost did IOTL) and the new administration would get out of the war in 1917.
That ww1 scenario is very unrealistic as the us was in no way powerful enough to secure victory over the Germans.
Chile, Argentina and Brasil just do nothing? What sense have that? ???
Of course 3rd world countries recently independent would take on one of the greatest military powers. Especially while the US are busy.
USA navy in 1860's was in no way capable of going all the way south and maintain any force. Also, Argentina and Chile would just invade and take over. RL Argentina fought with France and Britain multiple times having to defend bombardment from their fleets. Prussia is nothing next to that.
If America was able to go all the way to Japan in the 1850's and make enough of a force to force them to end their centuries long policy of isolationism, I think they'd be able to make it to Patagonia, where they already sent loads of ships.
@@JoshSullivanHistory Japan was a medieval country, South American countries had/have modern weaponry/politics/economy/diplomatic connections.
In the 1880's Chile's navy was the most powerful of the Pacific, IRL, for example.
Why do you think England didn't colonize it IRl, it was the only major seaway they didn't control.
@@celdur4635 What I'm saying is, if America had the capability to make a show of force in Japan a decade and a half earlier, they'd be able to make a show of force in Patagonia, that they probably wouldn't even need to make anyway, with Bismarck just selling the colony anyway. As for later, during a revolt, I did say that it would be difficult and costly for America to hold on, but it would be too important to let fall into hostile hands.
@@JoshSullivanHistory They could've sent ships, but they wouldn't have succeeded since, unlike the Japanese, the Argentinians and Chileans had modern weaponry, cannons, fortifications and ships themselves.
As i said, after the war of the Pacific, decades after your scenario, Chile had the best navy of the Pacific for a few years.
Also, the map is wrong. Patagonia start from Rio Colorado to the south. Also, Great Britain will never allow the in 19 century USA to control in any way Patagonia.
I like how your alternate timelines are grounded. German colonization of South America would be geographically limited, there wouldn’t be a Prussian/German world hegemony, and the colony would inevitably fall under American occupation. It’s logical and not whimsical. Good job.
No tarde o temprano argentina o chile reclamarin la patagonia
Uncle Sam wouldn't admit it, really? Better tell me something else that I don't know, I know very well that USA IS A SHIT
@@PERUANODEASENDENCIAEUROPEAlikely they might have it for a while but since the Monroe doctrine exists they would be pressured to give it up and eventually have to since unlike Papua New Guinea, there’s actually a lot of people nearby and they’d have to send armies to hold onto it
Lots of Germans immigrated to North and South Americas. You can find German DNA in some shape and form in the U.S Americans and Latin Americans. So in a sense they did colonize the continents. During the U.S civil war the people of German origin in U.S fought for the Northern cause against the south. In a way it was German might that defeated Germany two times in a row during the great wars which is bitter irony. Their greatest strength was their greatest weakness.
Germany didn’t just lose two world wars because of German immigrants to the US
Of course the US joining ww1 did help, but the British had already blocked and starved them to breaking point. And the US absolutely didn’t play the pivotal role it played in ww2. And sure ww2 obviously had Americans fight and produce material who were of German descent but it had more who weren’t.
Saying Germany lost because of German immigrants sounds like the height of German nationalist cope lol
No it was always "germans" vs germans.
they didn't colonize even in a ''sense'', they literally just immigrated
@@Smokey348 Immigration is a form of colonization it is more passive than full blown annexation and invasions.
Mmm this is an angle from a North American person, by that time Argentina and Brazil were powerful countries with big armies. They were more into defend their own land and they would be suspicious that USA were around that area.
My argentinian grandfather REALLY enjoyed this video
Ww1 happening sooner, possibly without some weapons like mustard gas, shotguns, etc, is a fantastic scenario that honestly should be explored more
While they sort of did with the amount of people of German ancestry in South America especially in southern Argentina and Chile some places you have to remind your self that your in South America and not in Bavaria.
I'm not sure if I agree with Bismarck selling Patagonia (even despite his views of colonies), due to it being a majority German (and protestant, but I'm also guessing majority) since wasn't Bismarck's whole thing about uniting the German speaking world under Prussian guidance or leadership. I also feel like Bismarck position might have been taken away from him or at least greatly reduce power, should he have even considered abandoning the territory.
I also doubt the collapse of the Ottomans as they were reforming a heavily prior to the First World War, I'm not saying that several regions won't try to break away, but in my opinion based on my studies and beliefs I believe that the Ottomans could've survived territorially, culturally and influentially if they didn't join the war. Than again I could be wrong but I also doubt that the Allies (The Entente) would have carved up the state.
But apart from those points I really enjoyed the video, I only recently started watching your videos and your honestly becoming on of my favourite channels.
Considering that Russia is more powerful in this timeline and Ottoman territory had already been mostly majority Muslim population by this time, Britain wouldn't have let the Ottoman Empire got carved up anyway
Letting that happen would be letting Russian influence intrude on the Middle East, which could potentially threaten British India
I like how this whole scenario was inspired by one video of a Chilean military parade lol
please continue this in a part 2 perhaps! i’ve seen south american german colonies as concepts before but i’ve never seen someone deeply delve into the aftereffects! this is a very interesting alternate history and i hope i get to see it go further!
@bigbitch584 there’s not much to go further with. Sure, he could make a story/scenario about this going forward, but this is an explicitly “what if” video, examining the most likely outcome of a certain change happening. Past WW1 in this timeline, there’s simply so many variables that producing a proper “what if” video with any consistency/accuracy won’t be very easy or plausible.
I don’t think Germany would try to occupy Patagonia in WW1, atleast not right away. They’d know the risk of drawing the US into the war, and that it wouldn’t be worth it. I could maybe see them making the attempt later on in the war as a kind of last resort, though. Possibly an alternate Zimmerman Telegram situation, but this time actual military action. They’d have to get though the British blockade to do so tho, so that’s a bit doubtful.
Otherwise great video!
exactly what i was thinking
I kind of enjoyed it but it's way too focused on the great powers. If Germany managed to colonize a bit of patagonia, there's no doubt that chile and argentina would ally, at least for the moment, to take the patagonia back and they would do it with US support. At the time, the gap between european countries and south american ones was not so big and a war so far away from Germany would be too costly to maintain. If you add that the mexicans managed to defend against France, you have enough motivation for Argentina and Chile to go to war. Also, south americans had a policy to aid one another in case a european country tried to invade them in any way, and Germany's occupation would trigger that. You made it seem like it was the scramble for Africa, when south american countries were expected to become strong due to their sizes and resources after they became independent. Only France was too naive to think an invasion of the ex spanish colonies was possible and it backfired.
No solo eso, la colonización seria carisima para alemania, los mapuches tenian un estado organizado ya, con un ejercito "fuerte" para ser nativo, a argentina con un ejercito moderno le tomo 15 años colonizar la Patagonia estando al lado, imaginate Alemania estando al otro lado del mundo
feels amazing to hear you talk about Klein-Venedig
I personally think small creators are the best in alt history, So creative!
I'm Argentine, born in Patagonia and on top of that, have some German blood on me. I only lack to live in Bariloche, because I even have a mustache 😅🤣
I love your channel keep up the great stuff
Yay! I love your videos Josh! Request: What if Miguel Da Paz survived?😊😊😊❤❤❤❤
Pasta
A realistic end to the 2nd American Civil War from Kaiserreich?
Since the Kaiser and tsar were cousins and good friends I don’t think that they’d take that much from Germany I think that they’d take Memel and some small lands from the corridor and that’s it
Yea, I doubt they would take majority German areas like east Prussia
Also remember that the French invasion in Mexico was happening during the middle and late American Civil war, and it was higher in the American priority list to the point that even if the Civil war was ongoing but winding down in the later stages, the United States took the effort to send weapons to the Mexican cause, whatever that happened in South America, would had to wait a little longer.
Video idea: What if Charles VI, Holy Roman Emperor, had a son?
The most interesting part remains Europe, Germany with a weak monarch and an harder path for an eventual Military dictatorship under the likes we met in our own history as Ludendorff and Hindenburg, France possibly not pushed to radicalizations and Italy maintaining Giolitti’s like government for the rest of the next 3 decades or so
Amazing video as always! Idea: What if henry viii and catherine of aragon's son survived to become Henry IX?
Other South American Countries : PRUSSIA!
Argentina : 🌚
I like your topic
love the marching band music playing in the background
Greetings from Chile
I think the pategonia situation would be a never-ending mess, it is on the opposite end of the world, there will be a constant influx of Germans and Austrians as it is the last and only colony, German organisations would lobby for aid, WW1 veterans would flock to the country, hell i think even Hitler would buy a ticket instead of applying to art school.
4:24 To expand some more, many Germans settlers in Chile were not Prussians, many were also Austrians, Swiss, checks and Germans from the Sudetenland (many German-Chileans, like myself, have ancestry from these bohemian Germans) this is why calculating exact numbers it’s difficult because most studies tend to classify german Chileans as only the ones from the territories that compose modern day Germany, excluding us who are of bohemian origin. If we count them (plus the Austrians, checks, Swiss, polish, etc) then the numbers rise up to 1.5 million or more.
I mean an argentino thinks trough the stomach and the germans got strudel so
El que diga lo contrario no sabe nada de aca
I disagree with your peace deal. Relations between GB and Germany were on their way to getting better as GB feared the industrializing Russian empire, with a diplomatic mission, the Tyrell mission, planned for the summer of 1914, which is when the war broke out. My point here is that GB feared the ever powerful Russians and would want Germany to remain strong to keep Russia in check. Especially with the war ending in 1915, before hatred between the nations reached a point where only total destruction of the enemy was acceptable. The same points can be applied to Austria, as they along with Germany kept Russian power at bay. Russia annexing Galicia and east Prussia would put them in central Europe, and if Austria-Hungary collapses then Russia would have a free hand in central Europe, being able to influence all the smaller states. I think this amount of power and influence would be unacceptable to Great Britain as in the future it could really challenge their power.
So in my opinion, I think Great Britain would try to make sure Germany and Austria-Hungary remain great powers to keep Russia in check. France might agree as well, they would obviously see the threat, and without the extra years of war they might be more lenient on Germany. I think Germany would lose Posen to Russia but that's it. Austria wouldn't lose Galicia, maybe parts of it like Ukrainian Galicia but even then I think they'd ask for a referendum, which would definitely go their way, allowing them to keep it. Things like the atrocities the Russians committed in Galicia would help Austrias case. Austria would likely lose the Trentino and their Italian port city(can't remember the name) but that's about it. Without the extra years of war, the league of nations likely isn't proposed, so a concert of Europe balance of power scheme would likely be needed.
Also I think you should do a video on what if the Tyrell mission wasn't delayed(it was originally supposed to happen in the fall), improving relations between Britain and Germany and possibly avoiding WW1.
Pt 2 please
Imagine if Russia owned the west coast of the USA?
UA-cam: I find this offensive!
venecuela was a private german colonie at first or better a private german colonie named klein venedig and the capital at the time ( todays coro) was named neu augsburg
Ive just realized that you kinda sound like mort from familly guy (bo offence i just found it funny)
What if German born in Souht America?
Here's one scenario and Hitler's worst nightmare Slavic Germany because there were Slavic people that lived in East Germany and modern day Prussia if any of you have played ck3 you know about them😅
Yeah, but your also talking about people who were Germanized over 500+ years ago, where at that point, while not originally German ethnically, they did become German culturally. They would also eventually become ethnically German, too, as the centuries went on of intermixing with ethnic German populations.
Lastly, if they were still ethnically and / or culturally Slavic, they would never call their country Germany because that name was specifically created as the land of the Germans.
@@Domjot5569actually they still maintain a distinct culture today. They're called sorbians.
@@Domjot5569There was also a lot of settlement in the area by Germanic people
@mappingshaman5280 I stand corrected. I had no idea those people still existed today.
@@mappingshaman5280 I only knew about the very small populations of Slavic peoples from Prussia and Pomerania that still existed
A single large colony consisting of present day Chile, Argentina, Paraguay and Uruguay would be a better investment then the coal refuling stations idea they did i OTL.
As a chilean who was born from a family of german colonists... I find this way too interesting.
Hey man would you do another response video on Fredda?
Only one disagreement. During the American civil war American German relations were actually quite good. It’s far more likely that Germany would assist the north and the union would likely give the few light on the colony so long as Germany green lights American control. Which they would.
Nice discussion, what if Germany colonial troops had arrived to South America, Antarctic region, Lunar bases, Venus floating cities, Albaderan system, etc.
So...we could say Chilean non action could have made ww1 shorter?
Can you do a alternate history what if andres bonifacio won the tejeros convention
So does Patagonia eventually become a state in this timeline, or just a perpetual American colony?
In a manner they did. The Latin American uppercrust seems Italian a nd German as well as oddly Lebanese.
Honorable mentions: mr mustache wouldn’t have rise in power after the war since he would probably would try and do other things than becoming a politician and peruse his dreams as a artist…. Hopefully
Request: what if Little Venice didnt give it spanish lands back
What if the Jacobites succeeded
What if Poland buy madagascar? There where some plan's after ww1 to buy it idk how they will hold it but hey sound fun
I am make alternate history series being the German Japanese empire its good 😊
and the other with Edward the third of England his mother and the Hundred Years War with two big differences discovery of America and early Protestant Reformation
And still debating on this if it would be somewhat like one of the big things Game of Thrones is known for I want you to guess what that is😅 between Edward and Isabella but I'm still thinking about it
I'm just trying to figure out a reason for England to leave the Catholic Church😅
good video, but you likely overestimated the US. We could debate if they would have been so effective to end ww1 so soon, but surely they wouldn't be able to suppress an overwhelming german majority on the other part of the world, it would be easier for them to conquer Australia.
"a quick Victory over Germany" literally no xD
The Germans agreed on a peace deal because they had their own revolution and because they had no supply at all for years because of the british naval blockade. Even with American forces combined with Britain and France against a Germany that also has to worry about Russia and incompetent allies, The Entente wouldn't even come close to occupying German Mainland
Another good video!
You blame all those on the Hohenzollerns.
Aye, he got a sponsor
I Think this Scenario is good until the End. Germany Was WAY more powerful during the 1914s-1917s. Most estimates say that the war would end in 1917, closer yes but not as drastic as you say. Plus much more lives would be lost.
That's actually fair. And it's a breath of fresh air to finally get a criticism that isn't a snarky "UHM, AKHTUALLY, YOURE WRONG" for once.
and remember the Canal was finished in 1914, so the straights were not that important. over emphasis on taking patagonia.
Bro that literally hapenned I'm ethnicaly german and live in south brazil
If Prussia supports the Confederacy, what would that mean for German Americans, the majority of whom were Pro-Union? Would German-Americans move to Patagonia, leading to factions between Pro-German Patagonians and Pro-American Patagonians?
As someone of South America, this is so unrealistic and I like ur channal
I doubt the U.S. would be as powerful, due to two whole rebellions in such little time they would need several decades to recover, they may also become uninvolved in general conflicts like in our timeline to attempt to recover. I see a German Victory in WW1 possible here, however this timeline is still very interesting.
👍
it was very interesting how this Germanic migration came about
Here in Paraguay, there’s a WhatsApp audio of a man speaking German with guaraní, Paraguay’s indigenous language, and is fucking hilarious.
Pone vinculo
Biggest overkills of all time 💀💀☠☠☠
Manpower
Resources
fucking everything
10:53 common bismarck L
Chile is at this point more pround of their german culture than Germany. Either Chile is the Number 1 Prussia fan, or Germany lost it's spark
(Both is correct)
Germany actually had a colony in Venezuela
Chile and the Brazilian Empire would let the US do all that? lol... They would definitely make a coalition against the US
4:43 Formosa is rightfully German
Interestingly, the Argentinean province of Formosa is in the exact antipodes of the island of Formosa (Taiwan). 🤔
what if southern brazil (RS,SC,PR) was independent?
We would annex them (?
Just kidding, that country would be kind of Switzerland; little but with a high life quality and good places to pay a visit such as Camboriú, Florianópolis, Porto Alegre, Blumenau or Curitiba
It be was a great Uruguay maybe with a portuguese languege.
What if france stoped germany when they tried to take rhine in 1936
Nice scenario but I'd rather prefer all Patagonia for CHILE
Horrible escenario para el cono sur
What if france won ww2 or What if operation downfall happend
!
🇩🇪🤝🇦🇷🇮🇲
OK the video is meant as a joke! Because it was not until 1871 that the unified German state came into being. Before that there were various German small states and they were too weak to acquire colonies. There was actually a pitiful failed attempt to colonize the area of Venezuela by a German banker and merchant family from Augsburg in 1528 which was described in the video. That was the pathetic attempt of the Germans to colonize South America. In the 19th century, serious German attempts at colonization of South America would mean war with the United States. Because according to the Monroe Doctrine it holds that any intervention in the political affairs of the Americas by foreign powers is a potentially hostile act against the United States. So the United States foreign policy position that opposes European colonialism in the Western Hemisphere.
wasn't Venezuela founded by German conquistadors?
Yeap, the colony of New Hamburg (Maracaibo)
😂
Cough cough ww2
Prussia was very pro union, and hated the confederacy, even with this they’d be neutral likely
Any world where Christendom survives is a better world.
The Germans should've done lebensarum in Argentina imo (not to have great influence in SA, as that might catch the eye of the US) but as surplus population and food safety to Germany. What if the Third Reich staged a coup in Argentina and poured massive influx of German migrants there?
*So Argentina by de jure remains Argentina, but slowly becomes majority German in this alt scenario (maybe by say, 2050)
L vid
HEIL KAISER VON BRASILIEN!