This is a good design what I finds helps with the slow water flow (on the underside drain pipe)is IF you have a 90 degree elbow then a 4 or 5 inch straight pipe then a 45 degree elbow then a short straight pipe gives it the right resistance to over come a slow water flow.
or let the water drip onto a waterwheel so that big doses of water are dumped regularly instead of a trickle. the dose has to be just enough to prime the siphon. or could set up an autofill valve upside down in reverse to a bucket on top of this bucket so the float opens the line when water gets high and that runs it in to the siphon bucket at a faster rate for a short time.
The typical solution for this 'NO AUTO-START" delema is to, as assumed previously, add a same size diameter elbow 90 to the bottom end of the stand-pipe to create back pressure. No need to reduce diameter here. For low input flow rates use a P-Trap under the tank to create a "wet" air seal to initiate the siphon cycle consistently.
if you wet the uniseal its easier to put the pipe through, put an elbow at the bottom to help create a seal to start the siphon, also "tubing" (schedule 20) can be used at the top sections and "pipe" (schedule 40) can be used at the bottom and your fittings are all the same size still
Couple things. It would work better if you used 1/2" tube all the way. And it would be a lot less expensive if you bend straight tube to eliminate the expensive elbows. Fill the tube with sand, heat it with a paint stripper heat gun, and bend it around a form you make with say a 3" circle 1" thick, fastened to a piece of plywood. Use tape to hold the sand in the pipe. It will keep the tube from collapsing and likely kinking when you bend it. It's a good idea to have wood on both sides of the desired tube shape so you don't have to hold it while it cools. Put water on it to speed cooling. This is the short version. You can get more details searching with Google. Added: Heat it evenly, moving the gun all the time and rolling the tube to get all sides. Don't want to scorch the tube.
I have seen people use heat guns to make simple bends in PVC but I had not thought of using it to make a full curve in pipe. That is a fun idea. I do have a heat gun that will go to 900 degrees. I will have to place this on the list to try in a while. Thank you.
If the elbows cave in it will change the diameter. be carefull Id suspect an even diameter in the corners/bends is crucial. I just used 1 inch because it was cheap. cheaper fittings. I had a 2 inch before that. I took it apart and done some other stuff with the fittings. they both worked. ( Im talking about on my h siphon )
Crucial to what? A temporary change in diameter of a pipe will result in a speedup of flow in that section if the diameter is smaller and a slowdown if it is larger. As long as the area of the cross-section was not changed drastically, the net change in the volume of water flowing through the pipe will be negligible. The sand inside will prevent full kinks in the pipe. The forms outside should be shaped closely to the arc of the tube to keep the shape. The goal is to stretch the plastic on the outside of the bend, while changing the shape as little as possible.
ya ok wwill it speed it up ? or damn it up ? If someone can do it all the power to them. this works for me and thats my advice. im not againstt a sand bend. infact if one can save money I encourage it. perhaps people can try it both ways. I admit I didnt try the sand bend as far as the h bend goes. i did do that on the pop boittlle green house , if you look closely youll see it was bent, not fitted. I agree, as long as the tube has a reasonable dregree and dosent obstruct flow or have air bubles and stuff then your good. .. probly. but how I did it is what worked for me. trust me. there was some trail and error
Thank you for this - along with your other video on the outlet, I've made one today - and so far it's going well! Been through several full, sypon, stop, fill, syphon, stop etc. and it's still going. I'm using it for aquaponics, but my hydroton seems to be floating - not sure why....but the syphon works great! Thank you!
+Nathan Johnson that seems like it would work. I have managed to get it to work in several configurations. My favorite is installing the pipe on the outside of the tank.
I designed this u auto-siphon. I did a lot of research and testing. This design works well but the fittings should be close together so it looks like one piece. The peak of the siphon is an airspace that has to be displaced by the rising water in the bucket. As the water rises in the siphon the water dumps out greater and greater and the air space at the top of the siphon becomes smaller and smaller. Eventually the weight of the water dumping out of the siphon creates a vacuum and sucks all of the air out of the top of the siphon and then the water completely fills the siphon and the water gushes out at full throttle.There is tons of info on the internet about auto siphons. There is also one done with clear pipe and u can see how the design works.
Thank you for the research. I like the siphon. It does work and has many nice applications. have you seen the low flow idea with ram pump? ua-cam.com/video/enj1d0NNLzY/v-deo.html
I am using 1" for the U siphon, and it works 100%. I am sick of the bell siphon; as I've tried it many times and it all fails. Yes it works for a couple of days and then either it keeps running or never start siphoning. That's my personal point of view though!
Thank you for sharing your experiment. I think the water stopped because the joints in the pvc pipes absorbed some air. The the siphon needs continuous molecular interaction of the water in order to work and just a little amount of air in the system will stop it. If you put a larger difference between the intake and the exit it will flux better and this brings us to the potential application of pumping using a siphon if we are able to open an unidirectional valve at the level of the curvature (?-shape) in such a way that it does not allow air to go into the system. The force of gravity is responsible for this flux. A very easy way to pump water to any height using the force of gravity is called the "gravity buoyancy solution" that I used to run for the U.S. Congress on 2010. We can displace infinite amounts of water to literally any height by using buoyancy which is dependent on buoyancy itself.
L Malino; once siphoning starts the water level drops. max must mean flow not flux. he must be ESL and i doubt he ran for congress with that gibberish at the end. prob thinks islands can capsize like one other congressman!
I was trying to keep the pipe size the same so adding the 90 is a better option. It does work. I have several more videos showing some tests that I ran.
I think you need to add the cup with a drainhole.. It should work. Myn did a similar thing before I added it. but also I mad the standpipe ( well, the height of the h, in this case the standpipe is the 90 degree of the h. when it passes the bar it drains ) taller at the same time, when I done both those things it worked.
This is similar to the Pythagorean Cup. This would most likely work best if the entire pipe was reduced in size. I think that you will find that it still empties the bucket surprisingly fast.
Yes it sure is! I have just drawn out a few ideas that I want to share in a video soon. Might allow the larger pipe to be used and still allow a low flow start.
Land to House I think this is exactly the same concept as the Pythagorean Cup, not sure that the extra bends would make any difference whatsoever. The Pythagorean Cup works because you fill the cup higher than the "hill" before you notice it draining, giving it the momentum to create the siphon, then you stop filling. The only way for this to work is to make the thickness of the top of the tube thin enough such that the momentum of the water filling will fill the whole cross section with no air gap. So the slower the fill, the smaller the tube. And therefore slow drain. Although, it doesn't need to be a circular tube, or at least not a circular hill does it? If you had a very wide but thin tube, so the hill was only say 1/8" high, but say 6 1/4" wide, the water has to only rise 1/8th the height to create the siphon of a 1" circular tube, yet with the same surface area (hence same drain speed).
what you are building is a level cyphon. you only need the t 90's to do this. it will trickle at the level of the top of your u an cyphon when the incoming volume exceeds the the top of the pipe and it will cycle.
I had not seen the double hump siphon before. Very cool. I think in my setup when the ducks jump into the pond the change in water level will be enough to get the siphon started.
Problem. My backyard neighbor built his fence with a cinder block base (intentionally) and block the natural flow of the water from my yard to his yard...and for a couple of years my backyard floods and the water does not have any place to go just down but after several days of raining the percolation is very little....so i dug a swell hole about 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep...filled with empty plastic barrels with holes, rocks and landscape fabric. the digging and construction took me 3 months do to (a 65 year old female goes very slow)...it works but still i have flooding...so i was thinking to put buckets along the side of the fence and i am trying to figure out a syphon system that will collect the water but with a system that will take the collected water and "push" it thru the lower part of the fence (were cinder block and wood fence meets) and just gift it to the jerk...they will not find out because it will be raining...and when raining stops no water will be pouring to the other side, BUT i can not figure the design out...any ideas??? and yes, a lawyer came and told me that i can sue the jerk, but let's say this guy is a KKK lover and hater of anything that moves that is not white...so i do not want to stir the pot, if you know what i mean. anyhow if you have any ideas please let me know... thanks.
What is that thing on the end of your drill when you make a hole in the bucket? Is that a piece of pvc pipe. (If so how do you get it to stick on your drill?
Any idea the theoretical maximum limit of an automatic siphon? I'm looking for ways to cycle water coming from ram pumps to different sprinklers without human intervention.
I think the open end is allowing air to get up into the pipe, possibly try reducing the pipe down after the highest knuckle bend and making sure the open end is submerged in water to prevent air entering. An interesting experiment. Looking forward to the ducks!
+Michael Collinson good observation! When I install this in the ducks I should place a "p trap" in the line to keep out the air. I can't wait for the ducks!
Are you asking for ram pump operation or for the U siphon? If you are talking about the ram pump you can install a stand pipe to extend the water source a long way. This lets you gain the head pressure you need yet allow the source to be close to the pump. Here is a video showing how this works. ua-cam.com/video/Untwclzgq7U/v-deo.html
You could go out the side of the bucket instead of the bottom. That way you don't need to have such a good seal on the bottom. Just be sure your pipe on the outside of the bucket extends down lower than the bottom of the bucket or at least lower than the pipe on the inside of the bucket.
When mixing a surfactant with liquid put the sifaka to in last. You could always place the outlet BELOW the level of the water. End result, the soap doesn't froth up.
That would likely work as well but I feel the spring would have to be finely tuned to get the pressure right. The spring valves that I have worked with have a 1/2 pound spring. Way to much for this siphon.
Don't know much but I think that there has to be a 90*elbow on the drain giving it a horizontal run of at least 12 in to help facilitate the siphon drain.
Increase the flow of water into the bucket. Add a smaller bucket with another, smaller, U siphon on-top of that bucket. The smaller siphon will feed into the main bucket increasing the flow, dumping the same amount of water into the main bucket over a smaller period of time. That should get the main siphon going.
Alternatively, you could feed the main flow into a small container on a lever with a counter weight at the other end so that the small container fills up and dumps the liquid into the main bucket all at once when it reaches a certain weight. That would stagger the flow rather than having a constant flow which could help start the siphon.
I think semi blocking the output (as you did) will cause an air bubble in the top of the question mark, as you called it. That slows the flow down, if it keeps flowing at all. The flow is at maximum speed when the top of the question mark contains no air. So What you could do is making the top of the "?" a bit narrower. That should make the upstart to the maximum come sooner. But to be frank, I don't see the problem. It worked. If you hadn't stopped the flow the second time, it would have worked after some time, just like the first attempt.
Yes you are right! I was just playing around to be honest. I just purchased the parts to run several more tests this next week. It should be fun to alter the U some to see if it has better results.
It looks to me as though there is one flaw in this setup. If the water is filling the tank too slowly it will trickle out rather than siphon. If the outlet pipe was through the side at about 3/4 way up and had a right angle bend to the bottom of the tank it would work well as long as the outlet pipe was temporarily blocked to allow the water level to rise above the top of the pipe. A shallow “U” shape in the pipe, perhaps four 135 degree bends or a piece of copper shaped with a pipe bender, would trap water in it and create an airlock stopping water from entering the siphon. When the level had risen adequately the pressure from the head of water would displace the air through the trap and the siphon would commence. As long as the trap is correctly designed it will retain adequate water once the siphon has broken to create a new airlock. This works for me on a dehumidifier drain where the slow trickle from a continuous drain would be prone to freezing.
+Mike Wiscombe thank you for watching. It worked even better than I was expecting. And I think that with the right adjustments it will work well for my duck pond setup
Add a trap to the output leg. Turbulence is not what you are creating, nor will the addition of a reducer outside of the bucket help. What you need is the creation of suction.
I had some trouble with the bell sipon aswell. I didnt get it until I understood the science of how it worked. THen I thought OK. then by theory this should work. after some playing around it did. ( trust me it might get time consuming lol ) also the lenth of the h affects how well it will drain. It determines the size of the buble that goes down creating bigger pressure creates a bigger release. make sure its all sealed. GLue is not nessesary, just push it on good. it takes some playing with. the taller works better then the smaller. ( Just take my workd for it, too small dont work ,at least noit when I shortened it for aesthetics, took me a bit to figure out why it wasnt working again. the trick was in the height I donjt have a magical equation but Ive made a few of them now and they all work.
One of the biggest problem with working with vacuum is that the parts are designed to work with pressure as opposed to vacuum and vacuum is hard to maintain because everything is porous to a certain extent. There is an expression that says that "where there is a way in water will find it"... the same can be said about air too... but more so with air than water. I think that vacuum as an energy potential is infinite where as pressure is finite.
By using the two 45s and two 90s it makes a better upside down U with more surface area to pull the water. Only using the 90s does not work as well or at all.
my thinking is having a cut down 200l barrel and having a dwarf fruit tree in it and the oxygenation would cause a form of root pruning to avoid the tree becoming root bound. I have root pruning pot in the past and they work amazing well, but what has held me up was creating small enough bell syphon and I you may have solved my problem having ebb flow around my tree roots.
cheaper than to use all those elbows is to just use one pipe and bend it by applying heat and then prying the pipe against a rounded edge. less turbulence too.
I would recommend using a smaller diameter pipe . Bubbles will be drawn down the small pipe but not a large pipe . AND drill the hole in the side of the bucket near the top with an elbow reaching to the bottom of the bucket and an elbow on the outside of the bucket going lower than the one inside . -of course the curved side of the bucket may be difficult to seal but any possibility of leaks will be up high . :)
The Uniseal seems to work really well with the bucket. I am going to give the U siphon another go here in a few days. I have several more ideas that I would like to test and share.
I am looking for a decent job in the medical field, please, let me know if you can help. I will give you the how for total sustainability from energy in return. 201 552 0461
I am sure that you could use that. I just like using the parts that are at my local lumber yard. They do not have the best selection of plumbing parts.
+Jeff Williams I know I failed to mention this but the reason I was testing the automatic siphon was to clean and drain a duck pond every time it reached the full mark. Because ducks are so messy I wanted to flush the pond every 12 hours or so.
hey Land to house. I know what your problem is I tried for weeks trying to get it. the best one Ive done is a backward lower case H. perhaps ill make a video on how I made it. its a little bit tricky. yours might work if you do the cup thing that I did on the bottom. but put a drain hole in the cup or it goes stagnant. it will siphon down quik enough if your hole is small enough, you just want it to drain after every siphon.. before u mess with the U siphon. try the cup method.( My h works great., I tried the U I couldnt get it. what happens is the water rises up, in the cup in the drainhole creates pressure in the top of the h. ( literally. I made an h shape out of PVC. ) The Air bu bble has nowhere to go but down, so it creates a strong burp, and it brings the rest of the water with it in my video im currently uploading you can see how it works a bit better. heres this video for now. Ill uploadload it to show how it works just a bit better then the current one Im about to post. its dark and rainy right now. this is just another vid I kept on my camera because I liked it. if you want a better look at it just ask and ill make a video where you can see it without the gravel and whatnot. ua-cam.com/video/E2hZPt9uHPE/v-deo.html
Oh wow I had the same idea on making the low flow start with a pipe that would tip over when full and create the surge of water. I am actually just gathering the materials to make a video on it. Your setup seems to be working well.
HI TRY USING 2 U TRAPS TOGATHER THE SECOND ONE A BIT LOWER THAN THE OTHER. ABOUT 2" LOWER. THAT WILL TRAP THE WATER INTILL THE SECOND TRAP IS FULL ,THE THEN THE SECOND TRAP WILL SYPHON EVERY THING OUT. I SEEN THIS IN MOTHER EARTH NEWS MAG. YEARS AGO TO WATER BEAN SPROUTS. I WISH I COULD SEND YOU A PICTURE BUT I THINK YOU CAN GET THE IDIA. GOOD LUCK.I CANT TO SEE YOUR PROJECT. I HOPE THIS WILL HELP.TOMMY S.
+Tommy Schauer I like that idea. It might be that adding a single p trap and making the exit pipe 50 foot long would pull a nice siphon. I am looking forward to this project a lot!
HI I HOPE THAT IS THE ANSER. MY MEMERY IS NOT THAT GOOD ANY MORE AFTER SO MANY YEARS, (HA HA ) IT WAS YERS AGO WHE I SEEN THE ARTICAL ABOUT THE SIPHONING OUT A FULL BUCKET AND SLOWLY FILLING IT UP TO RESIPHEN IT AGAIN. BUT IT DID WORK AND DID WORK WELL. I AM LOOKING TO YOUR NEXT PROJECT. GOOD TALKING TO YOU.
+Tommy Schauer aww I thought it was an original idea. Haha only joking. It seems like the p trap is the way to go. Several people have suggested that. I would like to get to the project as soon as possible!
It's okay stating that you need safety glasses and ear protection, but you Also might need to state that your holding an angle grinder wrong so people don't things it's the right way to hold one..
Even better is a ratcheting pipe cutter like the following. It slices through with no mess. www.amazon.com/Cutter-Bonus-Japanese-Steel-Blade/dp/B06WP2FXDW/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1515617523&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=pvc+pipe+cutter&psc=1
+BURNINGEMBERS PAINRIVER this bucket was from my workplace and held clothes washing detergent. I suppose technically the water did create the bubbles. Haha but no the well water is just fine.
Thanks. This was one of those "I have a camera and film while testing" type videos. I have 4 or 5 newer U siphon videos that are a lot better than this one.
Ok I uploaded it. My new phone uploads quiker then I thought. ok Pay attention to the sound. you hear the water rise up the draincatch cup . thats where some of the magic happens, but make sure you have it reasonably high, not just a little bit of the bottom, the higher it rises the more pressure it creates atthe top, and thats what you want. and dont have to much drill holes in the cup. or too big of one, Its purpose is just to drain the cup so it can push up pressure again on the next drain as soon as the waterlever hits the crossbar, it drains. its sat over the winter. now it just goes over the cross bar, but it still works. make sure everyhitng is sealed, and if the tuning is right then you should have er good luck let me know how it turns out ofor you if you do it. or what you do haha ua-cam.com/video/U6H1iyEvIgE/v-deo.html
Very cool. I am inspired to make my video this next week and get some more results with the siphon. I have not used the h design but it seems to work well.
My goal was to have a system that would auto clean a duck pond every time it was full. So the overflow pipe would only keep the water in the pond. The U siphon will drain it.
Hello, I made a S siphon like yours, I also made one in a dif shape, and the only result I have is as the water commes to the wanted hieghlevel, it simply flows over. No underpresure is made to make the water goes in a high speed. And why don't you use a PVC pipe cutter? Using a grinder brings a lot of fine pvc dust in nature. As you do Hydroponics, I think you are pro nature and contra things that are not ok for nature. So PVC dust is very bad for nature.
You stated that this trial was a success. Funny way to define success; it didn't work. You hypothesize that it would work with a reducer, but you do not demonstrate this. This was anything BUT a success, but then you yankees do have a way of presenting alternate facts.
Do you mean Yankee like from the USA or do you mean Yankee like inhabitant of a northern state? haha Reminds me of a Bugs Bunny episode "be ye martin or be ye Coy?" This test was a success to me because it showed that the U siphon built in this manner would work. It does have some kinks to work out but it does work.
Totally wrong design. Use a short length out of the bottom of the bucket, a 90, whatever length gets you past the width of the bucket, another 90 upward, a vertical pipe to whatever height you want, and two more 90s to turn back downard to your outlet fitting. Once the water gets high enough to go through that last 90 it should siphon the whole thing clean.
This is a good design what I finds helps with the slow water flow (on the underside drain pipe)is IF you have a 90 degree elbow then a 4 or 5 inch straight pipe then a 45 degree elbow then a short straight pipe gives it the right resistance to over come a slow water flow.
Thank you. I will have to give that a try. It seems like the ratio is a little tricky to get right.
or let the water drip onto a waterwheel so that big doses of water are dumped regularly instead of a trickle. the dose has to be just enough to prime the siphon. or could set up an autofill valve upside down in reverse to a bucket on top of this bucket so the float opens the line when water gets high and that runs it in to the siphon bucket at a faster rate for a short time.
The typical solution for this 'NO AUTO-START" delema is to, as assumed previously, add a same size diameter elbow 90 to the bottom end of the stand-pipe to create back pressure. No need to reduce diameter here.
For low input flow rates use a P-Trap under the tank to create a "wet" air seal to initiate the siphon cycle consistently.
if you wet the uniseal its easier to put the pipe through, put an elbow at the bottom to help create a seal to start the siphon, also "tubing" (schedule 20) can be used at the top sections and "pipe" (schedule 40) can be used at the bottom and your fittings are all the same size still
Will U siphoning still work if the outlet comes out of the bottom side of the tank?
Yes it sure will.
Couple things. It would work better if you used 1/2" tube all the way. And it would be a lot less expensive if you bend straight tube to eliminate the expensive elbows. Fill the tube with sand, heat it with a paint stripper heat gun, and bend it around a form you make with say a 3" circle 1" thick, fastened to a piece of plywood. Use tape to hold the sand in the pipe. It will keep the tube from collapsing and likely kinking when you bend it. It's a good idea to have wood on both sides of the desired tube shape so you don't have to hold it while it cools. Put water on it to speed cooling. This is the short version. You can get more details searching with Google. Added: Heat it evenly, moving the gun all the time and rolling the tube to get all sides. Don't want to scorch the tube.
I have seen people use heat guns to make simple bends in PVC but I had not thought of using it to make a full curve in pipe. That is a fun idea. I do have a heat gun that will go to 900 degrees. I will have to place this on the list to try in a while. Thank you.
If the elbows cave in it will change the diameter. be carefull Id suspect an even diameter in the corners/bends is crucial. I just used 1 inch because it was cheap. cheaper fittings. I had a 2 inch before that. I took it apart and done some other stuff with the fittings. they both worked. ( Im talking about on my h siphon )
Crucial to what? A temporary change in diameter of a pipe will result in a speedup of flow in that section if the diameter is smaller and a slowdown if it is larger. As long as the area of the cross-section was not changed drastically, the net change in the volume of water flowing through the pipe will be negligible. The sand inside will prevent full kinks in the pipe. The forms outside should be shaped closely to the arc of the tube to keep the shape. The goal is to stretch the plastic on the outside of the bend, while changing the shape as little as possible.
ya ok wwill it speed it up ? or damn it up ? If someone can do it all the power to them. this works for me and thats my advice. im not againstt a sand bend. infact if one can save money I encourage it. perhaps people can try it both ways. I admit I didnt try the sand bend as far as the h bend goes. i did do that on the pop boittlle green house , if you look closely youll see it was bent, not fitted. I agree, as long as the tube has a reasonable dregree and dosent obstruct flow or have air bubles and stuff then your good. .. probly. but how I did it is what worked for me. trust me. there was some trail and error
i would hate to make a vidoe on youtube as everyone would critize it. good video.
Thank you for this - along with your other video on the outlet, I've made one today - and so far it's going well! Been through several full, sypon, stop, fill, syphon, stop etc. and it's still going. I'm using it for aquaponics, but my hydroton seems to be floating - not sure why....but the syphon works great! Thank you!
Thank you! I’m going to try it with 1/2” pvc. Hope it works.
use a self starting syphon, m shaped with two hills and 1 valley. the first hill should be slightly lower than the second(exit) hill.
I have seen those. After I do a little more testing with the U siphon I will have to move on to the M style and see how well that one works.
Land to House won't work, read comment above.
Thanks for the idea. What about the small water input for now? Is it worked?
+Plant Weekend it seems to get stuck in a state of equilibrium if the flow it to low. Reducing the pipe size seems to reduce the flow required.
Land to House I saw another video and he said you need a 90 degree angle at the bottom and at least 2 feet of pipe and then turn down to drain.
+Nathan Johnson that seems like it would work. I have managed to get it to work in several configurations. My favorite is installing the pipe on the outside of the tank.
I designed this u auto-siphon. I did a lot of research and testing. This design works well but the fittings should be close together so it looks like one piece. The peak of the siphon is an airspace that has to be displaced by the rising water in the bucket. As the water rises in the siphon the water dumps out greater and greater and the air space at the top of the siphon becomes smaller and smaller. Eventually the weight of the water dumping out of the siphon creates a vacuum and sucks all of the air out of the top of the siphon and then the water completely fills the siphon and the water gushes out at full throttle.There is tons of info on the internet about auto siphons. There is also one done with clear pipe and u can see how the design works.
Thank you for the research. I like the siphon. It does work and has many nice applications. have you seen the low flow idea with ram pump? ua-cam.com/video/enj1d0NNLzY/v-deo.html
I am using 1" for the U siphon, and it works 100%. I am sick of the bell siphon; as I've tried it many times and it all fails. Yes it works for a couple of days and then either it keeps running or never start siphoning. That's my personal point of view though!
Thank you for sharing your experiment. I think the water stopped because the joints in the pvc pipes absorbed some air. The the siphon needs continuous molecular interaction of the water in order to work and just a little amount of air in the system will stop it. If you put a larger difference between the intake and the exit it will flux better and this brings us to the potential application of pumping using a siphon if we are able to open an unidirectional valve at the level of the curvature (?-shape) in such a way that it does not allow air to go into the system. The force of gravity is responsible for this flux. A very easy way to pump water to any height using the force of gravity is called the "gravity buoyancy solution" that I used to run for the U.S. Congress on 2010. We can displace infinite amounts of water to literally any height by using buoyancy which is dependent on buoyancy itself.
@Maximo -- Those joints are under water -- how might air get into them?
L Malino; once siphoning starts the water level drops. max must mean flow not flux. he must be ESL and i doubt he ran for congress with that gibberish at the end. prob thinks islands can capsize like one other congressman!
You could reduce the pipe or add a 90 going out. That will slow the rate at which the water flows out.
I was trying to keep the pipe size the same so adding the 90 is a better option. It does work. I have several more videos showing some tests that I ran.
Eric Mastenbrook that is the best solution.
I think you need to add the cup with a drainhole.. It should work. Myn did a similar thing before I added it. but also I mad the standpipe ( well, the height of the h, in this case the standpipe is the 90 degree of the h. when it passes the bar it drains ) taller at the same time, when I done both those things it worked.
would adding the elbow at the bottom work
This is similar to the Pythagorean Cup. This would most likely work best if the entire pipe was reduced in size. I think that you will find that it still empties the bucket surprisingly fast.
Yes it sure is! I have just drawn out a few ideas that I want to share in a video soon. Might allow the larger pipe to be used and still allow a low flow start.
Land to House I think this is exactly the same concept as the Pythagorean Cup, not sure that the extra bends would make any difference whatsoever. The Pythagorean Cup works because you fill the cup higher than the "hill" before you notice it draining, giving it the momentum to create the siphon, then you stop filling.
The only way for this to work is to make the thickness of the top of the tube thin enough such that the momentum of the water filling will fill the whole cross section with no air gap. So the slower the fill, the smaller the tube. And therefore slow drain.
Although, it doesn't need to be a circular tube, or at least not a circular hill does it? If you had a very wide but thin tube, so the hill was only say 1/8" high, but say 6 1/4" wide, the water has to only rise 1/8th the height to create the siphon of a 1" circular tube, yet with the same surface area (hence same drain speed).
what you are building is a level cyphon. you only need the t 90's to do this. it will trickle at the level of the top of your u an cyphon when the incoming volume exceeds the the top of the pipe and it will cycle.
Yes. The added 45s are to allow the siphon to start with lower flow rate.
U Siphon appears to be the best.
No movement nothing to get stuck.
Just a natural siphon effect.
+I Jabbs yes as long as the flow rate going into the siphon is strong enough to get the siphon going it is great!
I had not seen the double hump siphon before. Very cool. I think in my setup when the ducks jump into the pond the change in water level will be enough to get the siphon started.
Problem. My backyard neighbor built his fence with a cinder block base (intentionally) and block the natural flow of the water from my yard to his yard...and for a couple of years my backyard floods and the water does not have any place to go just down but after several days of raining the percolation is very little....so i dug a swell hole about 6 feet wide and 6 feet deep...filled with empty plastic barrels with holes, rocks and landscape fabric. the digging and construction took me 3 months do to (a 65 year old female goes very slow)...it works but still i have flooding...so i was thinking to put buckets along the side of the fence and i am trying to figure out a syphon system that will collect the water but with a system that will take the collected water and "push" it thru the lower part of the fence (were cinder block and wood fence meets) and just gift it to the jerk...they will not find out because it will be raining...and when raining stops no water will be pouring to the other side, BUT i can not figure the design out...any ideas??? and yes, a lawyer came and told me that i can sue the jerk, but let's say this guy is a KKK lover and hater of anything that moves that is not white...so i do not want to stir the pot, if you know what i mean. anyhow if you have any ideas please let me know... thanks.
What is that thing on the end of your drill when you make a hole in the bucket? Is that a piece of pvc pipe. (If so how do you get it to stick on your drill?
It's called a hole saw. It's a steel drill attachment for drilling large diameter holes.
Yes a hole saw. Sorry for missing your comment!
Yes! Thank you.
Any idea the theoretical maximum limit of an automatic siphon? I'm looking for ways to cycle water coming from ram pumps to different sprinklers without human intervention.
I think the open end is allowing air to get up into the pipe, possibly try reducing the pipe down after the highest knuckle bend and making sure the open end is submerged in water to prevent air entering. An interesting experiment. Looking forward to the ducks!
+Michael Collinson good observation! When I install this in the ducks I should place a "p trap" in the line to keep out the air. I can't wait for the ducks!
Bonjour, c est quoi un p trap? Merci
How can I compensate for low head pressure. My creek is small and my land is pretty flat
Are you asking for ram pump operation or for the U siphon? If you are talking about the ram pump you can install a stand pipe to extend the water source a long way. This lets you gain the head pressure you need yet allow the source to be close to the pump. Here is a video showing how this works. ua-cam.com/video/Untwclzgq7U/v-deo.html
can I put this in a pond? can I put a hose on the outbound tube and let it drain?
That is what i am going to use it for. I want to drain a duck pond. I have tested putting the siphon on the outside and it did work just fine.
You could go out the side of the bucket instead of the bottom. That way you don't need to have such a good seal on the bottom. Just be sure your pipe on the outside of the bucket extends down lower than the bottom of the bucket or at least lower than the pipe on the inside of the bucket.
Yes! I have a newer video from a couple years ago showing a side exit. Works well.
When mixing a surfactant with liquid put the sifaka to in last. You could always place the outlet BELOW the level of the water. End result, the soap doesn't froth up.
The problem was this bucket was a free gift from work. It was a detergent bucket. So the soap was already in there.
Land to House but the soap helped us to see where the water level is....hard to see clear water in a white bucket on video ☺️
add a ball valve at the drain outlet. you could effectively control flow until the siphon is full force then open the valve full way.
+Jeremy Dingeman I would imagine that would work. But if I want this to operate without my presence that would be a little difficult.
Land to House maybe a spring loaded flapper. it would take a little resistance to open and it would help build up flow inside the tube
That would likely work as well but I feel the spring would have to be finely tuned to get the pressure right. The spring valves that I have worked with have a 1/2 pound spring. Way to much for this siphon.
Don't know much but I think that there has to be a 90*elbow on the drain giving it a horizontal run of at least 12 in to help facilitate the siphon drain.
After more tests I have found that adding a 45 or 90 does help but increasing the flow rate is the best for getting the system started.
Increase the flow of water into the bucket. Add a smaller bucket with another, smaller, U siphon on-top of that bucket. The smaller siphon will feed into the main bucket increasing the flow, dumping the same amount of water into the main bucket over a smaller period of time. That should get the main siphon going.
Alternatively, you could feed the main flow into a small container on a lever with a counter weight at the other end so that the small container fills up and dumps the liquid into the main bucket all at once when it reaches a certain weight. That would stagger the flow rather than having a constant flow which could help start the siphon.
can we increase the flow rate of a siphon help me to increase the flow rates
Saad Siddiqui you can always ramp up the size proportionally and it should work with a higher flow.
I think semi blocking the output (as you did) will cause an air bubble in the top of the question mark, as you called it. That slows the flow down, if it keeps flowing at all. The flow is at maximum speed when the top of the question mark contains no air. So What you could do is making the top of the "?" a bit narrower. That should make the upstart to the maximum come sooner.
But to be frank, I don't see the problem. It worked. If you hadn't stopped the flow the second time, it would have worked after some time, just like the first attempt.
Yes you are right! I was just playing around to be honest. I just purchased the parts to run several more tests this next week. It should be fun to alter the U some to see if it has better results.
It looks to me as though there is one flaw in this setup. If the water is filling the tank too slowly it will trickle out rather than siphon. If the outlet pipe was through the side at about 3/4 way up and had a right angle bend to the bottom of the tank it would work well as long as the outlet pipe was temporarily blocked to allow the water level to rise above the top of the pipe. A shallow “U” shape in the pipe, perhaps four 135 degree bends or a piece of copper shaped with a pipe bender, would trap water in it and create an airlock stopping water from entering the siphon. When the level had risen adequately the pressure from the head of water would displace the air through the trap and the siphon would commence. As long as the trap is correctly designed it will retain adequate water once the siphon has broken to create a new airlock. This works for me on a dehumidifier drain where the slow trickle from a continuous drain would be prone to freezing.
I actually have a series of videos where I dive more into the U siphon concept. There are a few low flow starts and other fun things in that series.
You basically made pythagorean bucket, never had any idea where to use it, what are you going to do with it? Interesting video!
+Tomáš Kubát my goal is the use this to flush clean a duck water tank. Everything it gets full it will clean itself.
+Land to House clever idea, looking forward to seeing it in use
+Tomáš Kubát me too. Should be more tests in a while.
Land to House great, make sure to record it all ;)
+Tomáš Kubát oh yes. I sure will. I must have 10 non house videos already filmed and ready to go.
Just increase the flow in a little. more important,see If the siphon will stop once the pond is drained. It's a fine balance.
to increase your water quantity add a " Deer Chaser " to your system it will set off any siphon, good luck and thanks for the video
Yes it sure will! I have that video in my playlist. it worked well.
Nice syphon and very easy to make. Thanks for sharing.
+Mike Wiscombe thank you for watching. It worked even better than I was expecting. And I think that with the right adjustments it will work well for my duck pond setup
Add a trap to the output leg.
Turbulence is not what you are creating, nor will the addition of a reducer outside of the bucket help.
What you need is the creation of suction.
I will give that a try in the next tests coming up.
I had some trouble with the bell sipon aswell. I didnt get it until I understood the science of how it worked. THen I thought OK. then by theory this should work. after some playing around it did. ( trust me it might get time consuming lol ) also the lenth of the h affects how well it will drain. It determines the size of the buble that goes down creating bigger pressure creates a bigger release. make sure its all sealed. GLue is not nessesary, just push it on good. it takes some playing with. the taller works better then the smaller. ( Just take my workd for it, too small dont work ,at least noit when I shortened it for aesthetics, took me a bit to figure out why it wasnt working again. the trick was in the height I donjt have a magical equation but Ive made a few of them now and they all work.
One of the biggest problem with working with vacuum is that the parts are designed to work with pressure as opposed to vacuum and vacuum is hard to maintain because everything is porous to a certain extent. There is an expression that says that "where there is a way in water will find it"... the same can be said about air too... but more so with air than water. I think that vacuum as an energy potential is infinite where as pressure is finite.
I'm very curious why you wouldn't clean out the gross dead insects from the bucket first before starting this project!
I missed why there are two 45° bends...? Why not just use the two 90°s?
By using the two 45s and two 90s it makes a better upside down U with more surface area to pull the water. Only using the 90s does not work as well or at all.
if u were to have the outlet pipe in a water tank so the air is trapped maybe the siphon will start
+MN SHP (MNSHP11) interesting. I think i will first try to reduce the size to 1/2 then if that does not work I will try the next step.
Land to House okay
could replace a Dutch bucket system
I suppose that it could. I am now to working with these systems.
my thinking is having a cut down 200l barrel and having a dwarf fruit tree in it and the oxygenation would cause a form of root pruning to avoid the tree becoming root bound. I have root pruning pot in the past and they work amazing well, but what has held me up was creating small enough bell syphon and I you may have solved my problem having ebb flow around my tree roots.
Yes this might be what you are looking for. You can also pull from the bottom of the tank and have the U on the outside of the tank.
I really think you've solve my problem with aeration around the tree roots thanks a lot keep up the good work much appreciated
Why is there so much soap stuff in the bucket?
I got this bucket from work and it was a detergent bucket. I washed it out a little before this test but it still had plenty left in there.
Land to House Oh ok.
If you had used 1/2" PVC for the entire siphon I think it would have worked reliably and you would have save a bit of money.
This is on my bucket list. Illuminati confirmed
+Flo haha that's funny.
i dont think that will work
+M Bruce Carr I am planning on giving this a try again in the summer. It all depends on the input flow rate.
Good work go ahead for using this to generate electric
put you a "U" at the bottom or let it dump into a pipe larger than the drain to create a water seal so the the vacuum will never break
So you just made a big Pythagoras cup. Neat.
Yes exactly!
Thanks dude. It worked great for me.
Nice! Happy to help.
cheaper than to use all those elbows is to just use one pipe and bend it by applying heat and then prying the pipe against a rounded edge. less turbulence too.
Yes indeed. I do have a heatgun. That would do the trick.
Angle Grinder?
+MrNateSPF the best!
i don't think your lungs will agree with that, specially when you have no breathing protection
You can put the syphon from the outside.
Yes for sure! I have another video with an external pipe.
I enjoy your videos and info! Keep up the good work!
+Cole 212 thank you for watching! I will try my best to keep up the work.
I would recommend using a smaller diameter pipe . Bubbles will be drawn down the small pipe but not a large pipe . AND drill the hole in the side of the bucket near the top with an elbow reaching to the bottom of the bucket and an elbow on the outside of the bucket going lower than the one inside . -of course the curved side of the bucket may be difficult to seal but any possibility of leaks will be up high . :)
The Uniseal seems to work really well with the bucket. I am going to give the U siphon another go here in a few days. I have several more ideas that I would like to test and share.
use a square bucket then.
Congratulations! You've discovered how the bell siphon!
I do have another video showing the bell in use for hydroponics. This U siphon work is just for fun.
You've seen what a bell syphon is right? Gotta love guys who talk shit and have no clue....
Great video man
Thank you. There are a few more updates on this concept.
Welcome ya good stuff
SORRY MY TYPING IS BAD . HOPE TO SEE YOUR PROJECT SOON.
I am looking for a decent job in the medical field, please, let me know if you can help. I will give you the how for total sustainability from energy in return. 201 552 0461
Any luck?
YES FOR ME IT WORKED. I HAVE USED IT TO EMPTY A 5 GAL BUCKET I USE FOR CHICKIN WATERING.
+Tommy Schauer nice! It is fun when it starts up.
I love seeing things being made. Interesting stuff mate!
Thank you. I also like to see things being made.
al menos lava el balde antes, muy buenoo lo que haces
Why didn't you just use a U-Bend?
I am sure that you could use that. I just like using the parts that are at my local lumber yard. They do not have the best selection of plumbing parts.
Run the hole saw in reverse to get a cleaner hole
That's a fun idea! Thanks.
why wouldnt you just use a straight pipe, like the petcock in a toilet tank?
+Jeff Williams I know I failed to mention this but the reason I was testing the automatic siphon was to clean and drain a duck pond every time it reached the full mark. Because ducks are so messy I wanted to flush the pond every 12 hours or so.
I think it can not lift water high.
This siphon is not intended to lift water but instead drain water after it has reached a certain point.
Wait that intro is a 2016 intro?
+IcyHi yes. This was last year's video. I am just now getting around to more testing
bro measurement ?
I can not see any difference between a “bell siphon” and your “U-siphon”. They only have a little different shape.
Pythagoras cup is another thing to look at
Thats cool! I had not seen that before. Seems like the same concept.
hey Land to house. I know what your problem is I tried for weeks trying to get it. the best one Ive done is a backward lower case H. perhaps ill make a video on how I made it. its a little bit tricky. yours might work if you do the cup thing that I did on the bottom. but put a drain hole in the cup or it goes stagnant. it will siphon down quik enough if your hole is small enough, you just want it to drain after every siphon.. before u mess with the U siphon. try the cup method.( My h works great., I tried the U I couldnt get it. what happens is the water rises up, in the cup in the drainhole creates pressure in the top of the h. ( literally. I made an h shape out of PVC. ) The Air bu bble has nowhere to go but down, so it creates a strong burp, and it brings the rest of the water with it
in my video im currently uploading you can see how it works a bit better. heres this video for now. Ill uploadload it to show how it works just a bit better then the current one Im about to post. its dark and rainy right now. this is just another vid I kept on my camera because I liked it. if you want a better look at it just ask and ill make a video where you can see it without the gravel and whatnot.
ua-cam.com/video/E2hZPt9uHPE/v-deo.html
Oh wow I had the same idea on making the low flow start with a pipe that would tip over when full and create the surge of water. I am actually just gathering the materials to make a video on it. Your setup seems to be working well.
Basically how a toilet works
Yes although the toilet has a stopper to stop the siphon from the top.
Use internazionale metric sistem.
Quel intérêt ?
HI TRY USING 2 U TRAPS TOGATHER THE SECOND ONE A BIT LOWER THAN THE OTHER. ABOUT 2" LOWER. THAT WILL TRAP THE WATER INTILL THE SECOND TRAP IS FULL ,THE THEN THE SECOND TRAP WILL SYPHON EVERY THING OUT. I SEEN THIS IN MOTHER EARTH NEWS MAG. YEARS AGO TO WATER BEAN SPROUTS. I WISH I COULD SEND YOU A PICTURE BUT I THINK YOU CAN GET THE IDIA. GOOD LUCK.I CANT TO SEE YOUR PROJECT. I HOPE THIS WILL HELP.TOMMY S.
+Tommy Schauer I like that idea. It might be that adding a single p trap and making the exit pipe 50 foot long would pull a nice siphon. I am looking forward to this project a lot!
HI I HOPE THAT IS THE ANSER. MY MEMERY IS NOT THAT GOOD ANY MORE AFTER SO MANY YEARS, (HA HA ) IT WAS YERS AGO WHE I SEEN THE ARTICAL ABOUT THE SIPHONING OUT A FULL BUCKET AND SLOWLY FILLING IT UP TO RESIPHEN IT AGAIN. BUT IT DID WORK AND DID WORK WELL. I AM LOOKING TO YOUR NEXT PROJECT. GOOD TALKING TO YOU.
+Tommy Schauer aww I thought it was an original idea. Haha only joking. It seems like the p trap is the way to go. Several people have suggested that. I would like to get to the project as soon as possible!
It's okay stating that you need safety glasses and ear protection, but you Also might need to state that your holding an angle grinder wrong so people don't things it's the right way to hold one..
I like to use the chop saw now. It makes a much better cut.
Even better is a ratcheting pipe cutter like the following. It slices through with no mess. www.amazon.com/Cutter-Bonus-Japanese-Steel-Blade/dp/B06WP2FXDW/ref=sr_1_1_sspa?ie=UTF8&qid=1515617523&sr=8-1-spons&keywords=pvc+pipe+cutter&psc=1
Don't tell me that it's the tap water making the bubbles!
+BURNINGEMBERS PAINRIVER this bucket was from my workplace and held clothes washing detergent. I suppose technically the water did create the bubbles. Haha but no the well water is just fine.
Nice video, but next time just clean out the suds and show it with clear water... not that hard....
Thanks. This was one of those "I have a camera and film while testing" type videos. I have 4 or 5 newer U siphon videos that are a lot better than this one.
a big Pitágoras greedy cup
Haha yes it sure is.
And a moth and they cricket
..... test that siphon completely haha.
Ok I uploaded it. My new phone uploads quiker then I thought. ok Pay attention to the sound. you hear the water rise up the draincatch cup . thats where some of the magic happens, but make sure you have it reasonably high, not just a little bit of the bottom, the higher it rises the more pressure it creates atthe top, and thats what you want. and dont have to much drill holes in the cup. or too big of one, Its purpose is just to drain the cup so it can push up pressure again on the next drain
as soon as the waterlever hits the crossbar, it drains. its sat over the winter. now it just goes over the cross bar, but it still works. make sure everyhitng is sealed, and if the tuning is right then you should have er good luck let me know how it turns out ofor you if you do it. or what you do haha
ua-cam.com/video/U6H1iyEvIgE/v-deo.html
Very cool. I am inspired to make my video this next week and get some more results with the siphon. I have not used the h design but it seems to work well.
you really need astronout safety just to cut pvc tube ?
Not working
The down pipe should be longer
WTF IS A KILOMETER?
Doing a test with suds..........are you freaking kidding me ?
+You-Tube Junkie you are funny. This was a bucket given to me from my work... laundry detergent. Haha
PVC cutters are like $12 and cut way better... why would you use an angle grinder? Lol
A subscriber sent a pair of pvc cutters! They are great!
Fo
Just fit an overflow pipe.
My goal was to have a system that would auto clean a duck pond every time it was full. So the overflow pipe would only keep the water in the pond. The U siphon will drain it.
man, that nozzle just ruined your video. cut that thing off and do the video again.
Looks like a failure
I now have 5 or so other videos where this idea has been worked out.
Lmfknao Hahaha an angle grinder to cut 3/4 PVC! Lmfknao Hahaha
Its all I had. Now I use the miter saw to cut my pvc.
Hello, I made a S siphon like yours, I also made one in a dif shape, and the only result I have is as the water commes to the wanted hieghlevel, it simply flows over. No underpresure is made to make the water goes in a high speed. And why don't you use a PVC pipe cutter? Using a grinder brings a lot of fine pvc dust in nature. As you do Hydroponics, I think you are pro nature and contra things that are not ok for nature. So PVC dust is very bad for nature.
You stated that this trial was a success. Funny way to define success; it didn't work. You hypothesize that it would work with a reducer, but you do not demonstrate this. This was anything BUT a success, but then you yankees do have a way of presenting alternate facts.
Do you mean Yankee like from the USA or do you mean Yankee like inhabitant of a northern state? haha Reminds me of a Bugs Bunny episode "be ye martin or be ye Coy?" This test was a success to me because it showed that the U siphon built in this manner would work. It does have some kinks to work out but it does work.
And thats how you reply to rude comments.
Well done :-)
HAHA yes I thought so too.
I will name him george and love him and pet him and hug him and...
+Aaron Mackay it's surprising how a 70 year old cartoon can relate to so many modern day situations.
Just a Bell siphon nothing new.
More like a U siphon haha. This concept is thousands of years old.
Totally wrong design. Use a short length out of the bottom of the bucket, a 90, whatever length gets you past the width of the bucket, another 90 upward, a vertical pipe to whatever height you want, and two more 90s to turn back downard to your outlet fitting. Once the water gets high enough to go through that last 90 it should siphon the whole thing clean.
Yes you should check out my newer tests of the U siphon. I take the unit out of the bucket as you suggest. ua-cam.com/video/FsZi4B5bevs/v-deo.html