The Better Bell Siphon
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- Опубліковано 13 тра 2012
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This is an explanation of how a traditional bell siphon operates. It goes into some of the physics of how the auto siphon gets started and stops. One of the biggest problems I've run into is getting them to stop properly on large grow beds. I've solved this problem with one simple little piece! It's so simple, I'm kicking myself for not figuring it out years ago!
This grow bed is using 3/4" pipe for the drain and standpipe with a 2" bell. The fill rate is LESS than 1/2 liter per minute and the siphon still starts with no problem. It's been running for about a week without any problems.
If you like this video please "like", comment and share. It helps a lot!
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Our 3rd most viewed video for 2013 was "The Better Bell Siphon". This video shows a little physics about how a real bell siphon operates and then a little float that I use to help guarantee it will stop. There were a lot of skeptic folks out there that didn't believe it would work, but then I started to get a lot of people writing say that this design is a life saver! 83,601 views this year (109,473 total). The Better Bell Siphon I also did a followup video about it that you can find here: How To Build a Bell Siphon
This is by far the best bell siphon demonstration I've seen on youtube, thanks!
The number of hours I've spent looking for this solution. Thanks very much for such a clear explanation.
Thanks....I've been using this in my newer system for about 6 months and it has never failed. Even changing the flow rates hasn't phased it.
It definitely works! I had a bell siphon that was not breaking siphon. This one small addition fixed it. My siphon is now trustworthy rather that frustrating. Thankyou!!!!
I did modify the air tube. replaced flex hose w/ stainless steel tube (extra from homebrew siphon) then used a 3" piece of 1/2' copper with a cap. Fits like a glove but moves up and down easily and is stable. Have a pic, but don't know how to send it. Running for 4 days and extremely consistent. Thanks again. Love all your videos.
Excellent innovation - I messed with this problem for ages and finally got it by fiddling with the incoming flow-rate - BUT - your enhancement with the cup looks like the answer to the problem of breaking the syphon cleanly. Will try it out on my grow-beds asap.
Many thanks :-)
That's a good cycle time. Mine are about once an hour. I'm happy to hear you're using this style of siphon...a lot of people have told me it's too complicated but I have never had a problem with it...except for the roots. ;-)
I have been doing a lot of research to find the best way to build and begin my aquaponics system. This seems to be the best siphon that I have seen. Will DEFINITELY be using this once begin my build!
Thanks! I like the updated video footage - makes the whole thing quite clear. I also like how the P-trap makes the siphon start up so well.
Love it bro. been trying for 3 days to get mines going. looked at your video and now i can rest!! Thanks a lot for posting!!
About to attempt my first aquaponics setup and your videos have been my "must-see" prep videos =)
I am sure your videos will be saving lots of my future aquaponics nightmares
Ive been watching all your videos and i have to say that they are some of the best aquaponics,greenhouse videos ive seen. i am very impressed with all the thought and work that you've put in to making your dream greendome. i have an aquaponics greenhouse as well but you give me a lot to think about for my next greenhouse. keep the videos coming. i cant get enough.
Your brilliance is dazzling to me! Such great insight you were able to gain! Cheers!
Thanks, after adding pebbles I had the same problem. Applied your solution and works great. For the trap underneath, I used a formed single pipe (3/4) that they sell for condensation exhaust on HVAC units. cheap and good-looking. Once again, thanks.
I just put a bunch of fittings together as close as possible to make the the trap. The distance that the water has to get pushed up through the trap is about the same distance below the growbed's water line the top of the standpipe should be. A few experiments and you can fine-tune the length!
When you get into larger grow beds (ours are 4'x30'), these mechanical solutions get cumbersome. We use simple cycle timers to fill the beds rapidly and then turn the pump off and allow to drain. The nice thing about a cycle timer is you can adjust times between fills, and by adjusting the valve on the drain, can adjust how fast or slow the bed drains.
Great idea. I´ll try the next season. My system is very small, but from the beginning I had problems with the sizing of the siphon, and often the problem occurs that the siphon does not cut or start well.
I am preparing a video to share what I have achieved, because your job is being a great inspiration for me, but small-scale ...
please see the other comments about Affnan's siphon.. His will work for most applications, but it doesn't meet my needs for a very slow fill rate. Also, I've been using breather tubes for a few years and never had a problem with them clogging. Thanks!
this video of your bell siphon design just solved the problem that has been bugging me for days... thanks a lot...
I applaud your ingenuity! Excellent work! I loved your explanation diagrams; they perfectly explain the whole concept. Thank You!
Genius! I don't have a particularly large bed, but I have had the same issue with the siphon slowing down but not cutting off every time.
Thank you for doing this video, you gave me some useful information, really appreciate you making the video. I have been going soing well for several months no issue with my bell siphon then suddenly having issues. Your video gave me a project to create an "cup" to hold water under the siphon thru three 90 degrees elbows, thanks, I hope this solves my challenges for my water to stop flowing
I have large grow beds with high flow rates and the bell siphons were getting stuck. I added breather tubes with a floating cup and it works perfectly. Thanks for the advice.
You sound like a very nice and smart young man. You did a great job. Your family should be very proud. I will try to use this for my system. Thank you.
Excellent! I have been bitten by the Aquaponics bug and I think you just saved me a whole lot of heartache! Thanks so much!
This is ingenious. Thanks for the ideas! I'll be using this technique on my other 6 growbeds that I'm constructing.
I really appreciate these videos. I hope you continue to make them.
excellent. I love to hear about how this is helping out! Thanks for the note.
Excellent idea.... elegant yet simple.
Great idea
These are fairly standard fittings that are used for going through large plastic tanks. Here in the US we call them bulkhead fittings. A different type of fitting is a uniseal. I've also seen people take a make and female fittings used for plastic electrical conduit if the wall is thin enough.
Hi! Great modification! Most of my bell siphons work great, but the only problem occuring is indeed the breaking of the siphon when the water flow changes. Thanks! Thumbs up for the inventors.
Great video! was not getting what the elbow turn thing at the bottom was supposed to do until i saw this video
Thanks! That was so informative and practical. Simple explanation and clear visuals! I'll be back when I actually build it.
I'm glad it's working for you!
good point on not being able to turn it. That "feature" sure does come in handy!
I like to set it around the height of the top of the stand pipe. This help minimize the amount of suction that it has to do to get the water through the breather tube. If you set it too high, it can sometimes not have enough suction to remove the water from the cup.
Great work. I have battled with bell siphon from day 1. I like what I see here Thanks
Very clear.. simple to built, yet very effective... thanks.
yup! Most of the video is shot....just trying to find the time to put it all together.
Very nice videos please don't stop posting them for beginners like me they are very helpful
nice job again and greetings from mexico
Yes, I'm familiar with affnan's siphons. I'm fairly sure that the flow rate with this type can be much less his - i'm trying to get my system to use minimal amount of flow to save energy. Regardless, either type would work for most applications.
This is an excellent modification. I've always had siphon problems because of inconsistent water flow. Your trap and floating cup let the siphon have the 'abrupt' changes of pressure that let it work every time, even when the water input flow is low.
They can be purchased at Home Depot or Lowes in the plumbing department. There's usually a rack of little fittings.
I have the same problem...water drains from growbed too slow thus air sucked by breather tube not enough to stop siphon action.
your solution is awesome...I will try it on my system!
Thanks a lot. Once I added my gravel my siphon would not shut off properly. I added a free floating cup (1/2 inch PVC Cap) and it worked like a charm. In my opinion it sure beats trying to adjust all the other possible variable. Cheers!
1) when you run it to the top, it injects the air directly where the siphon needs to break (where the water will "split" and go down the standpipe and also drop back through the bell). this is the quickest way to get it to stop. If you have it lower, it will just send a lot of bubbles up through the bell.
2) I've had breather tubes in the same bells for a few years and they are perfectly clean. There's enough flow through them that it sucks the bioslime out of them.
Hi Meg! Once I put in my beds that were over 20 sq ft I started hitting this problem. Non of my beds that are 15 sqft and under have ever had this problem. I think it's from the fill rate + the rate the water is "dripping" off the stone + the overall area which makes the water level not go down fast enough to break the siphon properly. I've seen this complaint on the forums several times over the years and didn't think much of it until it started to happen to me!
Also, I debated adding a couple of little pieces of foam to the top of the cup to keep it upright. I still may try it.
There never is only one right answer! By the way, your geo-dome greenhouse is SERIOUSLY the most awesome greenhouse I've ever seen! And I've seen a lot of greenhouses, and worked in more than my fair share of them ;)
In deed the best explanation on YT, thanks.
Genius. I'm pretty stoked that I found this vid. Thanks
AWESOME VIDEO!! Answered a lot of questions I had about siphoning. I love your design and am going to use it! No glue used I like that a great deal.
very good idea...for when your pump is fast in re-filling...not good...GREAT idea!!! thank you for your input...
Making my siphon! Thanks for the cap tip it works awesome!
very use full for my large grow bed...thank you
I have never seen this before!! Im going to try it! Thanks!
the best part of aquaponics is in creating a custom application that works for you; it helps justify the $10 tomatoes. :-)
there are many different designs that work flawlessly. mine are much simpler and have been up and running for 3yrs. With that being said you have put a lot into your design and you have produced a well explained video, nice job.
Great idea that solves all my issues, Thanks for sharing!
Great idea! I will use it and pass it on to anyone else who is interested. Thanks for sharing.
I have a problem of DIY siphon. My plastic water drawer/tank is not too big. I tried a different size of siphon. However, the water does not go fluently everytime, nor it could reach the very bottom of the siphon.
So does the following matter ?
1. Height of inner and outter sihpon ?
2. Size of the water drawer/tank ?
3. Size of the hole for water leakage ?
If there is a recommend sizes or formula, that will be great.
Or if a whole set of tank+siphon can be purchased, I would love to (because I spent a lot of time in testing already).
Thanks a lot for any help please.
Dude your really onto something amazing and the potential that can come forth from your idea could be huge.... mainly because its so simple and works if your there or not.... I’ve always thought or wondered about the potential for being able to have fine control of a bell siphon in action.......think about it In society..... (an this is just an off the cuff example.). water tower supplies water to a neighborhood... the tower suddenly is full.. bell siphon starts , neighborhood has water...., now water can be resupplied to tower or not in small or large amounts, anytime ,wont effect the neighborhood whatsoever....., everyone has water until its empty,,,, well it empty’s......no water until it fills again...... suddenly you put In an additional water tower.... now you can supply a neighborhood , garden, desal plant, pigeon farm or whatever. ..with a continuous constant supply of water ,, with no pumps, no power, almost no valves.... and the tower is just an example,,, it could be a water truck parked on a hill,, or a building on a hill, or a tower next to an artisan well or stream..... anyway its just my example of how what your delving into here ,, could be onto something big....email me if you would like to put some pencil to paper an hurl some ideas at one another.! Thanx for upload! JackFleck@ymail.com
I'm fairly sure I had posted on the BYAP site. As usual, most people bashed it...the few that tried it, loved it. ;-)
By golly that worked! I used a plastic cup to test it but it worked! Thank you!
I plan to try this. Thank you!
Bel Siphons are cool and your solution was smart.
Thanks for sharing. I may run into this problem when I setup a bigger aquaponics system.
Thanks for making these videos. Keep up the great work.
It's used to create a little back pressure inside the bell so it will "burp" as the water level rises.
You're a genius! I'll try this.
Great Demo. I gave you thumbs up for your awesome drawing skills.
Great explainer here. Thanks. Yes, Useful, clear. Excellent.
thanx for the quick response- ill try it with the cup addon soon, let you know how it works out,thanks again...
Thank you for this, now I know how to fix my bell siphon.
Bell siphon practice very good, i has aslo aquaponic us bell siphon. Video very wonderful
Thanks! If you're ever in New England, stop by!
Damn mate, that is really clever! Well done and thanks for sharing!
Some people don't think the trap is necessary whereas I like them. Instead of making it the sideways "S" shape like shown, you can twist the pieces around so it makes a loop and the exit of the pipe is almost the same spot as the drain. Either way, it doesn't take up much space. Just set it up where you can remove the trap and try it both ways! ;-)
Great video. Thank you so much for sharing.
Great video, I will definitely be using this design in my aquaponics system.
Also, what grow media is used in this video?
Great simple design buddy. Good stuff and thanks for sharing!!!!
+1 That seems to be a common problem...people get the siphons working properly then add the media and it stops working. ;-) Glad my little trick helped!
Very helpful. Solved the problem that my siphon could not restart.
Interesting...very simple and it works,can't beat that.
Are you placing a screened barrier around the siphon and cup so media doesn't clog it or cause the cup to hang up?
hi web4deb glad to see the work on the dome is picking up pace and thanx for the video updates -- im about to build my grow beds and i desigend them to be 2 meter long 1 m wide and 35 cm deep ,do you think its too big ? do you think one siphon desigend as you suggest will solve the size issue or shoud i go smaller any way? (: this video came just in time...
very informative and helpful. thank you
I think you meant a 4" media guard. Yes if you make it oval, it will all fit, but It's really nice to use the 6" so you can get your hands down in there.
Great video! Great simple design.
Thank you so much this information is extremely useful to me
it's a 6" pipe. Then it's offset from the stand pipe so it all fits in. It could fit in a 4" pipe, but it's a tight squeeze. I like the 6" so I can get my hands down in there.
Brilliant. Thanks again for sharing. Looks like a good solution.
Thank you for the video. Do you have any idea how big the diameter of the discharge tube can be. I have a situation where I need to empty a tank very quickly and repetitively after it fills up again.
Thank you. Jolly good idea. Well done mate!
Do you use a weep hole at the base of the stand pipe with the trap?
Love your videos, thank you for sharing them with us!
Thank you
Hello!
I've implemented ideas in this video in my first 6 sq. foot hydroponic grow bed, and it works like a charm! I too like the low inflow rate, while still getting quick & reliable syphon starts and stops.
Can you tell me how often (or how long each cycle is) your grow beds cycle in a 12 or 18 hour day?
Mine currently cycles every 45 minutes or so, and I'm wondering if this is Okay?
Thanx in advance, and great job!
Nice floating cup fix!
-Bullwinkle II
This video is very useful, thanks for sharing!
I bought bunch as surplus from ebay, but I think you can order them from McMaster-Carr.
I'm using a smaller bed. It's just a tote that is about 18" x 24" with 12" of grow media. Would the design that you have be oversized for my purpose?