Making A Knurling Tool For The Lathe
Вставка
- Опубліковано 14 чер 2024
- G'day everyone,
Fore the last project of the year I thought I might as well get around to doing a project that has been on my list for quite some time. And that is to make a new knurling tool. My old one is a bump style (or push type) knurler and whilst they are great for larger lathes, they do require quite a lot of force to use, and according to the machining zeitgeist, that is very bad for the spindle bearings.
The new style that I will make is a clamp style. It will use a screw to clamp the two pattern wheels on to the workpiece, which should save the spindle bearings. This seems to be quite similar to a scissor type knurl tool and I have no idea if there is an advantage to one type. All I know is the clamp style works and it works well. I hope you enjoy the video
Lathe - Hafco Al250g
Mill - Sieg x2.7l
#machining #diy #lathe
Timestamps
0:00 - Intro
2:17 - Making The Main Body
5:36 - Making The Roller Arms
12:25 - Making A M8 x 1.25 Left Hand Tap
18:54 - Making The Leadscrew
21:26 - Making The Roller Pins
23:38 - Making The Backplate
25:05 - Final Assembly and Testing - Наука та технологія
Next project self made bandsaw?
i'm hoping that he'll buy a cordless handheld bandsaw, but then treat it like a hacksaw and never turn it on
I have offered to send him a portable bandsaw like 3 times
Wastes a lot of time and material when he drills out a block like that scrap.
He's still yak shaving up to it. Lol. Honestly, I like the meme, but it must be such a chore.
It's definitely a meme now that he is riffing on. Ie he cuts with a hacksaw just to 'rile people up' (in a fun, non-harmful, non-offensive way).
Also, he did a vid last week doing a 'shop tour' and his workshop area is a shared space with his granddad (he must be so proud of his grandson btw) and is absolutely TINY. I kid you not, there simply is NOT enough space to store one at all (not even handheld style). It would get metal dust everywhere, and in such a small area, everywhere includes the leadscrews and ways of his mill and lathe....
Excellent job on the knurler! A couple of things:
- For the "perfect knurl" look, diameter of the stock is important to have a perfect pattern.
- As others have mentioned, the way you were using the knurler, still causes the work to deflect. Centering the knurl rolls with the work and clamping in, to the desired depth of pattern will produce better results.
Overall great job and Merry Christmas!
indeed, the pattern needs to be much deeper to look proper
I noticed that right away too, if the rollers aren't centered, they will push on work material.
Good stuff.
Yeah I never understood that about knurling. The diameter would have to be some even multiple of the spacing of the knurl pattern for the patter to match up on each revolution, right?
There’s a formula for it. I never use it. Sometimes I get lucky and sometimes I have to take down the diameter slightly.
You can see the difference your stiffening process has made to the mill, spot on
Suggestion - a big handle on top to turn the lead screw. You'll get immediate feedback through the hand and be able to increment the pressure gradually.
Who needs a band saw when you have these 💪
So, the disadvantage of this type of knurling tool compared to a scissor type is you're limited in the maximum diameter by the stick out of your wheels from the main body. With a scissor type with properly bent arms, you can do much larger diameter knurls with standard sized wheels.
The trick to getting a good knurl is to put a lot of pressure on the wheels. That prevents double tracking. You also want to get the wheels to contact close to 180° from each other to prevent them from trying to spit out the part and putting all that side load on your spindle bearings.
Don't worry about doing diameter calculations based on the pitch of your knurl, the diameter is going to change as the wheels bite in anyway. It might matter for a really course pitch knurl like a rope knurl or dial engraving knruls, but not the standard stuff you have. Double tracking is just a sign of insufficient tool pressure.
Mr. Pete discussed knurling details and talked about making tens of thousands and never dialing in the OD.
I did some calculations. On a nominal 1" OD part the difference in diameter between even tooth counts is 0.023" (0.58mm) for course, 0.015" (0.38mm) for medium, and 0.010" (0.25mm) for fine. And that is if the wheels just touch the OD. But you will bury the wheels somewhere between 0 and 50% of the tooth profile, i.e., change the effective OD by 0% to 50% of the above numbers. That's only 0.005" for fine. These numbers are within the realm of machinists but knurlers don't have any means of precise adjustment.
This is all for to say that few could achieve a successful knurl if the OD required such close tolerance.
L
Wishing you and your family a Very Merry Christmas!!!
Imagination is more important than knowledge. For while knowledge defines all we currently know and understand, imagination points to all we might yet discover and create.
I just watch Inheritance Machining make an acme tap and it was hard to turn until he ground some relief on the leading teeth of the tap and hs simply did that with a Dremel type tool. (in case you. are interested)
All your parts came out beautifully and the final tool is a work of art. Enjoyed, Merry Christmas!
Inheritance is fantastic. Abomb is also a good watch. Curtis at Cutting Edge Engineering is also a very skilled craftsman.
I encountered all of this in my two tap geometry videos about 6 months ago.
All that’s to say is I just forgot to add it here. I think I was a bit too focused on not wanting to remake the tap :)
I'll check that out, thanks for the heads up!@@artisanmakes
Thanks for all of these videos, you're a huge inspiration to me. This is my new favorite channel, im hooked!
Good to see you using up even the gnarliest looking offcuts to make your projects!!
I suppose the proper way to use it by grabbing the material the rollers 180 degrees away each other. The way in the video they still push the spindle bearings.
Love all your videos. I hope you keep them coming.
Clamp knurling for the WIN! Excellent work btw!
10:08 good to see the old band saw getting some use 😂
16:25 the greatest machinist that ever lived
Great jog, Artisan. I'am starting with Lathes. My first one will arrive next week. I'm learning a lot with yours videos, Thank you.
I like very much that you always try and save material for other projects, the old argument that steel is cheap never stood up for me, especially now its not that cheap anymore and non ferrous never were cheap , but the carbon footprint of new steel has always made me very wary of buying new, I only use new when I don't have any or I can't make the size I need out of something else.
Good one
Very nice sturdy bit of kit, a real lathe saver ...I imagine better wheels would create a better pattern
Thanks for sharing and Happy holidays
Always enjoy your videos, mate! Hope to see more and more projects in 2024.
One trick on knurling that has worked for me is to center the top and bottom rollers and just make contact then back off the cross slide and tighten you adjustment just a hair then turn the piece by hand as you slowly move the cross slide back to where the wheels are centered on the piece top and bottom (kind of like a scratch pass when threading) and check the pattern after you have turned the piece by hand, if you are getting a double pattern or misalignment then turn .001 (one thousands) off the part and try again. This will allow you to get a proper pattern started then slowly turn in the adjustment knob until you get to the depth you want when knurling, you may have to do it a couple of times but the pattern will come in proper.
Another great tool made. Thanks for all this years conten,t looking forward to next years .Re Ken
I'm so relieved!
Even 1 or 2 great UA-camrs that I respect and admire (along with more than a few "orhers") jumped on the kit band wagon and it was so annoying.
Especially one (from my own country I'm ashamed to say), that's made a whole bunch of the kits.
All for promotion/free etc and it's frustrating!
Well done for originality!
This is the jankiest machining setup and I'm here for it lol. Parts moving all around in the vise, wood router bits lol amazing
I believe it’s called running a tight budget :)
@@artisanmakes Yes exactly lol It's amazing because it feels very personal
thank you ! happy holidys from the states 🙂
Always exciting to see a new video from you!
It helps a lot when you cut or grind a relief on the threads.
Nice Job by the way👍
Just want to say you’ve become my favorite UA-cam machining channel this year
Well done Sir, you always astound with your designs. Merry Christmas and an Happy, Healthy and Prosperous New Year.
So happy you're upgrading this tool. Love the hacksaw, but this tool really sucked.😊
Thanks for the new video.
Using a cap head screw instead of rotary broaching or something else on the lead screw and shoulder bolts was such a simple and elegant solution I never would have thought of it lol
Very nicely done.
Really enjoy your videos. Thank you for sharing. Great video work also.
Another nice tool for your using, bravo! 👍💪✌
Great job. Merry Christmas ⛄⛄
If you do a lot of knurling, a big, chunky hand knob on top of the lead screw would be great!
Imo having reverse threads on one side, and a stop to keep it centered is unnecessary constraint, you could as easily have tapped the bottom jaw and done a clearance hole on the top jaw, and without the stop in the middle, it would center itself vertically, and be way less annoying to make.
I guess so. But there is play in the retaining pin. That recess I cut into the centre is larger than the pin so it allows for the whole assembly to shift up or down to align itself
"Those threads look like threads" well you're not wrong there 😂
Great Job thank you, Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year.🌲🌲🌲🌲🌲🌲🌲🌲
you most definitely need a band saw project on the channel
Happy holidays and best wishes to you and yours! ⭐🙂👍
Nice work!
Great job, one of your next projects should be a small heat treating oven, on with a PID so you can temper too.
Keep up the good work
You got good skills with the milling. Nice.
I know you can get the pattern wheels cheap, but I would still love to watch a quick video of you making some.. some standard ones for diamond knurl, some straight ones, and maybe some for the rounded ring knurl
Love the videos, I learn a ton! (just got a mini lathe myself after wanting one for like 16years :D)
Merry Christmas to you and your family and have a safe holiday and new year
It's a beast.
Great project.
Outstanding project.
Very nice knurling tool.👍👍
Thanks for sharing.
Happy New Year.
Happy new years to you too
This was awesome great content 😊
That tool height is going to have to be set spot on centre, or you’ve just shifted the spindle load 90degrees.
The advantage of the scissor type knurlers is that they apply even pressure, even if the tool height isn’t dead centre.
Also, the diameter you’re cutting is the reason for the shallow double knurl.
Either way, it’s a great looking tool and a challenging project. Well done
It doesn’t. There is play in the retaining pin so the whole assembly can shift up or down a few mm to account for not being perfectly on centre height. Cheers
Marry Christmas, thanks for sharing. Project looks amazing. I also use a small milling machine and lathe, and can appreciate the struggle to cut 500 hounded pass to get to where you need to be. A big PM milling machine that costs the same as a used truck is on the list, so I can brake more tools faster.
This method still puts pressure on your spindle bearings!
Happy Holidays from across the Atlantic
Yeah, the pins on the rollers need to be on the vertical center line of part.
Nice concept! :)
Hi. Not seen one made that way. Nice machining as usual. Merry Christmas.
Steve.
Brilliant!
When heat treating try using a piece of steel pipe with the fluxed part inside and the flame outside. Some knife makers use this method to avoid oxidation.
I just watched your video and it is interesting to see what you have created. I do knurling every week for work that we have multiple types and sizes of wheels we use. There is a easy way to figure out a calculation for the wheels you are using. No matter what they will align after a couple rotations of the bar. A easy way to figure out the size you need to make your parts OD is to make a line on the wheel and with paper, dip the wheel in ink or paint and with a marked point set it down and push the wheel multiple times over until it makes a full rotation. Count how many lines it makes in the distance. Divide the distance in inches by how many lines it makes. You can then use that number for the equation as following, we will use Number figured out as X and OD size, 2" Bar divided by X. The Number resulting will always be a ##.####. Take the Whole number removing the decimal spots and then times it by X. The resulting number should be less then the original OD size and when you knurl the OD at that size you will find it will easily knurl cleanly no matter the pressure. You will have to redo this method for every different size wheel and knurl shape but it will make you life very easy after figuring out what OD it needs to be. Remember when you knurl it will most likely push up back to the same OD size or similar size as before.
I know a lot of people have different approaches but I find this helpful and a Master Machinist taught me this method. I am very happy to know it now because knurling was extremely hard before. If you want to see examples or a picture feel free to message me and I can discord message or email it to you. Keep up the good work!
was looking for the "thanks" tip jar, or a link to patreon. Come on, set this stuff up so that we can send you some sweet cash. Love the channel - you're rocking it.
Nice build! Noticed the amount of sparking and spattering when you were welding, looks like you had some contamination (or lack of shielding) going on which may have contributed to your weld issues. Keep the builds coming!
Aluminium is close to working with hardwoods so can use a lot of woodworking bits when necessary. Nice work on another creation. Looks a bit like a Zaytran gripper.
It would seem your mill needs a larger motor as well. Seems to struggle with the slitter blade. Great content.
It's normal to have a chamfer on knurls designed for lateral movement so the edges don't dig in an twist the knurling wheels.
Sharp edged knurling wheels are normally reserved for cut knurling.
Kinda neat to see parallel jumping out at 24mins
Excellent build. Typically with this style of knurling tool you touch off on the work near the end of the workpiece then back off the carriage. You then adjust the 2 wheels to desired knurl depth, start the lathe and move carriage back to centre line. then move axially. Use air and fluid to get rid of chips. Alternatively, turn a small bit of the end to desired knurl depth, set wheel depth to that and then move to end of actual work piece. Dorian, Zeus and other brands have good descriptions in their catalogs.
Thanks for the tip, ill try that out next time I use it
Good job mate
Good stuff
Having the unit floating will allow both knurl wheels to do the same amount of work with no workpiece deflection as they will naturally find the part centre. They will track better if they are above & below the centreline of the part.
I have always been impressed that you make so much of your own tooling even down to taps. I can buy a decent quality M8 HSS LH tap for less than £10 here in ths UK. If was using them all the time, I'd probably go for a set of Presto's that I could get at Cutwel, just down the road for around £50.00. I just couldn't be bothered with the hassle of making one.
For a left-hand thread set? That's a nice price. But still, for one-time-use all those things get pretty costly. Though nice to make your own tools for your projects instead of buying.
Out in the Colonies however Hardware tools shops are not so common around the place. I live in a capital city and if I needed one on a weekday I would have the choice of maybe 3 stores that might have one within 20klms.
@@dazaspc I'm lucky about where I live I suppose, it used to be one of the biggest machine tool manufacturing areas in the UK around here. Colchester Lathes are only 3 miles away and Cutwel are one of the largest cutting machine tool suppliers in the UK. Lots of smaller suppliers still exist, although not as many as when we moved here 30 years ago. Where we would like to retire to wouldn't have anything within 75 miles that I could pop out and pick up.
I'm pretty sure it is even less around here. Most hardware-stores have closed during the last around 10-15 years and only some basic ones exist and they don't have those special tools like left-threathing taps indeed. And I live in a 'Metric country'. @@dazaspc
Most things need to be mail-ordered nowadays ;-(*
nice :) a few advices: try to fix the slitting saw runout, will help with saw life. Try using loctite 638 instead of 243 for a better bond. As far as knurling goes, i was using coolant when knurling, try to be at the perfect center and i was running it slower with power feed. You can get pretty good diamond pattern even on steel. If it is making a double criscross pattern, make a diameter of the piece a little smaller and try again :)
Fifty is nifty!!!!!
watching your drilling/slitting saw operation, you need a small bandsaw. Look at Harbor Freight for their Herculese saw and the bandsaw saw base. Makes for a small hand saw, table bandsaw, and miter saw, all in one. Small footprint.
Nice work! Maybe add a small knob ( knurled of course) to the top of the adjustment screw to tighten it? Not too large to allow clearance to the chuck.
i like it!!
I like this tool design. I was wondering how you were going to get even pressure on both wheels compared to the scissor type. I think letting them float on the adjustment rod should do it if you have the height set right.
The final example knurl could still do with some work though as it was double 'cut' on one wheel and single on the other. It should be looking like even diamonds if the wheel pressures, and feeds and speeds are correct.
to get a good knurl finish you need a very rigid setup where you can apply a lot more force with fewer passes. the more passes you do actually starts to ruin that result rather than make it better.
Excellent work and a clever design. I've used the bump type and the clamp scissor type, but the best one I've ever used is the push style that mounts in the tail stock. These were made by Brown and Sharp, Union and others. Cheers Nobby @nobbysworkshop
Great job again.👍
I envy you to have as many time as you make thread tap instead of buy a factory made one. You put a huge effort a cheap job… but you know.
Overall I like your channel, and keep it up.👏👏
Neat!
How are you gonna' keep us entertained if you ever get a bandsaw? Great project and Happy New year!😆
I was always taught ro knuwl at a spindle speed ad slow as the lathe will turn, with a feed rate as fast as the machine can do. Plenty of neat cutting fluid. Heavy cutting, or tapping oil. But ifcause a clamp style tool like the one you made as to a push style is superior
Merry Christmas to all ✌️❤️
I saw the part move at 12:16 in the mill and almost had a heart attack. I'm glad it didn't mess anything up to bad. I was legitimately worried for a second.
Good spotting. Itt was almost a code brown moment there
Oh nice!
There is another type of Knurling tool that works very well for parallel knurls and it uses 3 wheels.
The one I made didn't use a LH/RH thread and only a screw on each but still gets it done. I used the head of a self centering knurling tool as the bottom support tool and a single as the top. I had to make about 200 pins that were 5mm in diameter with a heavy parallel knurl on them. I measured them making contact with a 5mm pin in the chuck then made note, installed some 5mm stock for the pins that was about 2 meters long and set the knurl slowly to full depth at the chuck end then set the lead screw to move at about a 4mm pitch and let it rip (Well maybe not rip at 40 rpm) and did the knurls in one go on each bit of stock. It worked surprisingly well except for the knurls had a slight rotational lead on them. If I could have run the lathe slower it would have been OK, but for the length of pins I was making it was fine. Because the material was trapped inside the tool no deflection worries and a consistent depth for the entire length.
That thumbnail looks a lot like something from Inheritance Machining. I've been fooled more than once 🙈
Great job on this tool! Curse you left hand threads!
Attempt #5 - what 4-jaw chuck can you use for your lathe? Post a link.
You might want to check the preload on the spindle bearings. The milling you were doing on cleaning up the material for the knurl arms at around the 6:29 mark forward show a lot of vibration in the Z axis (you can actually see the spindle moving up and down in the spindle cartridge) and it's even reflected in the finish.
Dorian makes knurling tools of this general configuration. (Download their knurling tool catalog. It's quite a treatise on knurling.) Much more complicated than a scissor or parallel arm tool, but more compact front-to-back, which could be advantageous on some lathes I suppose. And building something unusual and challenging is part of the fun, isn't it.
I would definitely be thinking of 'giving it a go' with the ole follow rest. To remove any flex the tool forces upon the lathe. Or can the follow rest possibly is not offset enough. Your lathe. Your sandbox. I was just interested.
i love this c-word (aussie) i love your content brother woooopopooooo
Nice job, basically the same as the Aloris #19 adjustable knurler, without the big price tag.
@@artisanmakes I'm a Aussie though.
Bugger I replied to the wrong comment. Must have had too much eggnog
@@artisanmakes Lol..
Excelente trabajo.todo bien pero porque no ultilizar le herramienta brochadora que fabrico y así no tendría que usar opresores le vendría mejor vista . saludos México.
Don't the top and bottom rollers need to be at dead top a s bottom of the work so no side pressure reaches the work?
Inheritance Machining made one very similar to this. He makes a lot of cool tools you may find useful as well.
Yeah that’s a scissor type knurl from Hemingway kits. This is a clamp style
Would a follow rest help a knurler on a smaller mill? If it did I think I would have seen someone use one, but I have never seen it so maybe there is a problem I don't see.
Align the rollers with the axis of rotation and PUSH on the work to let it cut. That's a hell lot of work you've put in there, try to get proper results
Nicely built, but I would never use this system if you do not want to load the bearings, the slightest alignment error in height or deviation in the thread will still exert a lot of pressure on the spindle bearings.
I would have gone for a floating knurling tool, then you can be sure that the spindle bearings are never overloaded.
merry christmas,
cheers ben.
There’s float in the lead screw to let it move a few mm. Cheers
Did you chip any inserts when cleaning up that offcutt?
Por 👏 ta 👏 band 👏 my guy
Hah :D When I saw the video on recommended, I thought it was Inheritance Machining :D you have very similiar logos and thumbnails.
Pretty cool...what is the largest diameter round you can put knurling on?
Keep em coming!!!!
Largest this one will do is 60mm