I have been half-arse doing this on a simple part but never made a chart and screwed up a lot. Thanx for the boot in the keester. The next batch I make will be 100% per this video, and 10 bucks says I will cut my time (and scrap) in half. You da man, Joe.
As a hobby machinist, I’m so grateful that Joe takes time out of his paying work day to provide these invaluable lessons. I just put an X, Z DRO on my 13x40 Harrison lathe. A 40 pound hunk of dura bar is being whittled down to a solid tool post base presently. The absolute to incremental switch on my Bridgeport is becoming second nature. I can’t wait to index and catalogue all my quick change holders and get after projects. The process sheet will become another of my go to strategies thanks to Joe. Grateful in Central Phoenix Shawn
Hi Joe. I've just implemented your process sheet for a small three of job, what a game changer thank you. From now on every lathe job that is more than one component I will spend five minutes developing the process sheet. Benefits to me so far: 50% productivity improvement on batch parts, parts more repeatable, less to remember, less stress when I'm under price pressure, repeat orders have a simple archiving process, more fun when doing mundane batch jobs. Reflecting on today, the real irony for me is:- we will pay a CNC programmer to do process thinking when we think we have a economic CNC batch! If we discipline ourselves to think process we inevitable increase our own economic batch size, awesome. Thanks again Alan
Ha! Thanks for being a good sport about the cardboard tube Joe. I usually use a little larger tube, but that's the one that was laying on the lathe tools cart when I thought to send it to you. So much stock comes in cardboard tubes I always have some laying around. I do usually go past the tool and around the part a little more with the tube, but I recognize you were also positioning for the camera. I also don't worry about catching chips in the tube. They dump out with the parts just fine. As you know sometimes the part will flip up and fall on the other side of the tool. Not often, but its still a pain to go hunt for it in the chip tray when they do.
I did a process sheet when I was making a bunch of bushings. I didn’t do it quite like you did but the results from it were the same. I had someone in the shop and they were watching me watch the dro and not the part and were totally amazed the parts were coming out exactly like the print. Got my pallet a couple weeks ago and love it your quality is top notch.
Really enjoyed this one. Some decades ago, teaching and researching in machine tool design, nowadays just a hobbyist. You're much better at teaching than I ever was. Like very much that you have chosen to show it in one axis only. Made it much easier to understand. Will use your wisdom playing with the lathe.
altough I am a novice this was a real eyeopener , Will for sure watch the video multiple times to really get it into my mind thank you for all the awesome videos Joe, regards from sweden //Ken
It took until 26:26 to realize that what you're "making" isn't the part; rather it's THE PROCESS SHEET that is the real project at this step. You're making your instruction set to be able to efficiently make more parts. Makes total sense now. 👍
About 15 minutes in, I’m glancing at the comments thinking I’m stupid. As soon as I read yours, the lightbulb came on! The part is irrelevant, it’s the process sheet! Now I’m gonna have to watch it again. Thanks Man!
I have been struggling to learn how to use ABS & INC on my DRO. It never really made sense to me on how they work together….. Until I watched this video! It was like a lightbulb went off! Great Video Joe
Thanks, Joe! I put a 2-axis DRO on my lathe. The obvious exercise for me is to extrapolate those techniques to that second axis. The key seems to be stopping the machine with the tool in the cut so you can read and record the position. Really great, fundamental stuff that will help my approach tremendously. Thanks, as always.
Just be aware that that method will not be advisable with insert tooling when turning anything as strong or stronger than mild steel. Partly because inserts are not sharp, and mainly because they are brittle, stopping the spindle before you withdraw almost always takes a nibble out of the edge as the rotation comes to a halt and the cutting force suddenly ramps up. This is so even when you have a dwell period where the tool does not move; there's almost always enough give or spring in the system that there is still enough residual pressure to keep the cutting tip engaged in the work.
I should have mentioned that I rarely stop a tool while in contact with the work piece. It jeopardizes the tool and will probably leave a mark on the part.
Thank you Joe! What a timely video for me, was doing a small batch of parts on my mill for my home machine shop and could not figure out how to effectively use the ABS and INC functions on my import DRO, even after reading the manual 57 times. Watching your video one gave me that “Aha!” moment
I don't think this was a lot. It was pretty straight-forward. Plan out your cuts and write down the numbers that make each feature, then just hit the numbers again and again and again...
This is a great lesson - appreciate the detailed explanation - it makes production style turning a lot less of a chore. Great to see you posting again!
That Mr Pie is valuable stuff sir. I have used the incremental function on the mill many times. It never occurred to me to use it on the lathe. Only god knows why! Thanks Brother.
Best example of how to use a dro I have ever been shown I'm retired now but when I was taught how to run multiple parts there were no dros so I learned the pad and paper method so cave man style compared to your version I still don't have a dro on my atlas lathe that is older than me but I been thinking about buying one even more now after watching your video I could make a form tool and a shave tool for a screw machine set it up and drop one off every 7 or 8 seconds on a 1inch multi thanks for sharing your knowledge with us don't work no more but still like to learn anything that catches my interest you are a very good machinist and a better teacher something that you hardly see anymore thanks
Great information, could you please show more of this on the mill. Love the theory behind it all. Thanks again for sharing your incredible knowledge of the trade.
@@joepie221 well that’s just great isn’t it 🥴 Do you have any idea how many of your videos I’m going to have to watch to find that info. I’m choking on my own RAAAGE. Love your work mate.
Very clever. Essentially the numbers you are finding are a combination of tool offset and part geometry. If you had a fancy dro with tool offset capability you could do this separately, but this is a brilliant method for the rest of us mere mortals with simpler dro's (so long as you use insert tooling or don't disturb a tool offset by resharpening the tool part way through the production run). Thanks Joe
They are actually easy to understand and use if someone takes the time to really explain the difference. Which one to use is normally driven by the dimensioning scheme on the print. If all features are dimensioned from the face of the part, all moves are probably absolute. If the fetures are dimensioned from each other along the length of the part, those would ( could) be incremental. The good thing is, once you zero the absolute and go to incremental, the absolute zero doesn't change. Unless of course you face the part off. Easy example: You are standing still in a snow covered field. That is absolute zero. It can also be incremental zero. Now zero the incremental scale and take a step. You have now moved 'x' in absolute from your starting position and 'xx' from your previous location. When you take your second step, the incremental value is the distance from your first step to the second. The absolute value is how far you are from where you started.
Great video as always, thanks Joe!!! Hope to see more content you have some of the best out there. Any chance I could get an experienced machinist such as yourself to comment on the ancient vases currently being scanned? There has been a challenge to replicate one out of any material.
I tried leaving one in the comment didn’t work. If you search vase scan project it will come up. Ben was on the Danny Jones podcast recently they talk about them for a good 40 min.
Clear as mud,,, will come back to watch and take notes after the chemo gets out of my foggy brain 😞. Not having a DRO on my lathe and selling it may not make since, but this is an instructional exercise to sharpen the mind 🤔🤪.
Excellent video. My lathe is near-identical to yours and has a two-axis Newall Sapphire DRO that's now 41 years old. One day I'm going to swap the DRO for one with a tool library, but that old clunker is still hanging in there. I'm joining the Dark Side soon, bought a new Syil X5 CNC, but the Bridgeport and Colchester are definitely staying
Thanks Joe, thanks very much for this gem, yes it takes a minute to get in your head but the benefits are golden when making multiple parts, thank you for your time and patience.
Happy days! I was thinking it was a while since Joe had posted. This is great - I seldom use absolute and incremental but now I know how powerful it can be.
Great demo on how to use ABS/INC ! Especially for those with an older basic DRO with no tool library( or limited tool library ). Nice meeting you last week. I keep a small dry erase board next to my lathe/mill for jotting down DRO settings. Your process sheet would be mo' better for repeat parts/production.👍
Since your carriage cross slide does not have DRO reading, you didn’t discuss backlash so your machine must be tight, most home hobby machines are worn and the backlash would present a problem…..am I correct in my thinking??? DRO in both directions who cares about the machine’s backlash ….ENJOYED!!!!!
Greetings chuck. backlash on my cross slide does exist ( barely ) but all my moves are away from me, so it never comes into play. Thanks for checking in.
@@joepie221 YUP!!! you the man as that is the answer I was taught by Chui (same as the mill), taught and remember? are two different subjects and your reply hoping others read these comments will learn and REMEMBER…LOL
I started with the mill where from plan I would end up working from a set of co ordinates, on the lathe I use basically the same system as your doing except I have a window directly behind and I use that like a white board instead of a paper copy. It saves a lot of time and "spares".
Hi Joe, I know I'm showing my age. Back in the 60's in my Apprenticeship my forman gave me 2" peice of scrap and told me to make a cube. I was setting up a mill and he comes over saying NO, NO, NO. Handed me a file and pointed to a bench vice.
BTW, Stuart do a planer, which is like a giant shaper. If you look at my second to last video, it is of the Midland Model Engineering exhibition, and part of it is the Stuart stand with many of there models on it.
Joe, not sure if anyone has already mentioned this, but you can get neutral density filters for your camera to stop it down more - you can then use brighter lights and not wash out th4e camera sensor. Great technique - once I get my DRO, I'll give this a try. How do you deal with backlash on the cross-slide dial settings?
Joe. You are a god. 😬 I’d love to see your setup. I just bought a 1968 Southbend heavy 10L. I’m thinking of converting the lead and cross screw to ball screws, and adding a DRO. What are your thoughts on this? What DRO should I look at? (Two axis Z and X). I’m also thinking of converting it to a 4.25 hp Leili treadmill motor with variable speed, forward and reverse and electric break (already built). I’m having trouble with the taper pin holding the taper attachment. Both ends are flush with the trunnion. It just won’t come out. Any ideas? I know you are busy but if you can’t figure it out, no one can. Thanks, Paul
Yet another excellent lesson, Joe. Will the ability to crank out subsequent parts more quickly create the need to build in time for the material temperature to cool in order to prevent variations in final dimensions ?
PTC is the parent company of Pro-E. The beginning of the video was a model done in Wildfire 4.0. That is just a name for the pro-e edition. It has since evolved into creo. So kind of yes to your question. I use, and love this software. Its much more capable than most users.
How much accuracy is lost by changing tools? If your tolerances are +/- .010” you probably will be ok. If they are tighter than that you could have some problems IMO. Otherwise I liked the process and plan on using it in the future.
Great tutorial, but a few points- Axis are arbitrary- but normally a twin axis would be X,Y and a single axis X (as your DRO manufacturer agrees). For a lathe, it is normally X for the carriage and Y for the cross slide. A convention, but largely followed. You are using the incremental as an offset for another tool- Ideally the DRO would have a number of incrementals, which could each be assigned to a different tool. Then you could set up all tools with (in effect) their relative offsets, then using the absolute tool you could zero a new workpiece once, and all the other tools would be zeroed in ( their zero points would be moved by the same amount as the master). This would work with any workpiece/design - just set the absolute, select the inc. for the tool you are using, and follow the print. Anyone know a DRO that has this? I am currently making a DRO, and will incorporate this (select by tool number). How do you work with only a single axis DRO? If I only had one channel, I would want it to be the cross slide...
Though convention is a good baseline, I was under the impression the spindle was always the Z axis. Other DRO's do exist for individual tool setting, but you better remember to switch between offsets when you change the tool.
@@joepie221 I would be tempted to fit 'tool detectors' (micro switch) to the tool rack, linked to the DRO. With the right software, zeroing ANY tool would zero in all of them. Would save a lot of time.
We have a 3 axis on our Clasing and use the "Z" for the carnage. I pt the X on the tail stock. We only mount the compound when we need it- Use a solid block most of the time,,,,,,and we drill a hell of a lot more holes to depth then we do single point threading or high angle turning and the compound dial works just fine for that. With the cost of these chi-com DROs I wonder why more people don't have them on the tail stock (Never had ANY luck with the chinese digital calipers and there is no way I'm going to buy a Starrett and chop it up for a tail stock read out)
@@mathewmolk2089 The magnetic scales with the separate readout module are easy to convert- they give a clocked data reading that feeds easily into an Arduino. Add a small touch screen, and you can read several into one display. Much cheaper than glass scales, and smaller. Four gives you carriage, cross feed, compound, and tailstock.
@@joepie221 That was what I was first taught. I also was also taught the coordinates and direction of XY table on a mill/router/etc is always oriented like cartesian plane, but I've seen more than one or two mills where the Y was flipped. Even my new South Bend (couple years ago) was flipped. Drove me bonkers so I got into the setup and changed it.
It's really not that complicated or too much to absorb. It's just using multiple co-ordinate systems that account for tool offsets and the measurements in the drawing, and mapping them all back to a common co-ordinate system. It's actually very simple and elegant! Every CNC basically does the same thing, it just hides all of the layers of offsets from the user and presents you with everything in one common coordinate system too, but at the lowest level, all the machine moves are happening in "absolute" or machine coordinates anyway.
I understand you dont have one but most newer digital readouts, you can press the tool number button and then set the offsets for each tool just like you do on a cnc. Speaking of cnc, you could have made 50 of these parts while you were making this video with no one actually running the machine. Lol
I always thought this was common sense. my father must have had a good teacher when I was seven and first got into this trade field. just goes to show what we assume is common sense, we were all taught it at some point.
Unless I am dumber than usual you were using the numbers as a conceptual jig,what might be a waste of time for a single part can save lots of time in series production.
Doesn't really matter. Zero the digital once you face it off and off you go. I do have a video on 'production parting' if you need another idea on how to do it. ua-cam.com/video/8Z79i481QyI/v-deo.html
Going to need a nap and replay this again. Yes...I have more respect for my DRO... I would have loved working across from you in a manual shop...50+ years ago...Carry on JOE!
An add onto a yesterday day comment. Rex 95 and Mo-Max were my favorite when I could get my hands on either one. You might laugh at the following but while serving time as a railroad machinist apprentice, some of the old head machine men (as opposed to nut splitters working on erecting floor) told me that during the depression money was so tight that they couldn’t get even the Rex A series tool bits very often. So in a pinch they would find an old square file, grind the teeth off, then to the shape desired and use as necessary. You can imagine the cutting speed was not very high and calipers were the norm and as an apprentice you were expected to be able to read a half-a-64th on a scale! Keep up the nice work. Chris A. Retired but still making a few chips now and then.
I love how my confusion transitions to comprehension by the end of the video, as usual this was very informative and efficient, I have learned so much from your videos Joe, your awesome!! I wish you had a school for machinists because I'd DEFINITELY be a student there! Thank you again for another great video!...
Seems like an awfully tedious way to do addition... Get the tool to a known location relative to zero on the drawing, subtract that value from the DRO readout, and you have DRO zero for that tool. Add that to all the feature locations on the drawing and you have their locations in DRO coordinates.
In the past I’ve added points to my drawings representing the tool offsets and dimensioned to that for the different tools. But addition works too. I don’t think I’d do it this way
This method is doing exactly what you have just suggested. Toggling between abs and incr is giving you the values you need, without you having to add or subtract anything.
When one thinks about it, it makes perfect sense. I tend to label as x/y moves, but I also tend to make one offs or multiple simple parts such as all the studs and nuts for my 10v Stuart.
Fantastic video. How perfect is this for making that chess set l Long delayed because of the boredom of turning so many identical pieces. Thanks Joe. So many things around my hobby machine shop inspired by you and now a shaped cardboard tube added to my tool drawers
I have been half-arse doing this on a simple part but never made a chart and screwed up a lot. Thanx for the boot in the keester. The next batch I make will be 100% per this video, and 10 bucks says I will cut my time (and scrap) in half.
You da man, Joe.
Good luck.
As a hobby machinist, I’m so grateful that Joe takes time out of his paying work day to provide these invaluable lessons. I just put an X, Z DRO on my 13x40 Harrison lathe. A 40 pound hunk of dura bar is being whittled down to a solid tool post base presently. The absolute to incremental switch on my Bridgeport is becoming second nature. I can’t wait to index and catalogue all my quick change holders and get after projects. The process sheet will become another of my go to strategies thanks to Joe.
Grateful in Central Phoenix
Shawn
I normally just write it down on a pad and keep it close by, but the word document was much clearer for this video. Good luck.
Hi Joe.
I've just implemented your process sheet for a small three of job, what a game changer thank you. From now on every lathe job that is more than one component I will spend five minutes developing the process sheet.
Benefits to me so far: 50% productivity improvement on batch parts, parts more repeatable, less to remember, less stress when I'm under price pressure, repeat orders have a simple archiving process, more fun when doing mundane batch jobs.
Reflecting on today, the real irony for me is:- we will pay a CNC programmer to do process thinking when we think we have a economic CNC batch! If we discipline ourselves to think process we inevitable increase our own economic batch size, awesome.
Thanks again
Alan
That's great to hear Alan. Good luck.
Ha! Thanks for being a good sport about the cardboard tube Joe. I usually use a little larger tube, but that's the one that was laying on the lathe tools cart when I thought to send it to you. So much stock comes in cardboard tubes I always have some laying around. I do usually go past the tool and around the part a little more with the tube, but I recognize you were also positioning for the camera. I also don't worry about catching chips in the tube. They dump out with the parts just fine. As you know sometimes the part will flip up and fall on the other side of the tool. Not often, but its still a pain to go hunt for it in the chip tray when they do.
Thanks for the gift. It was a perfect opportunity to use and show it.
I did a process sheet when I was making a bunch of bushings. I didn’t do it quite like you did but the results from it were the same. I had someone in the shop and they were watching me watch the dro and not the part and were totally amazed the parts were coming out exactly like the print. Got my pallet a couple weeks ago and love it your quality is top notch.
Thank you very much. Enjoy the pallet. :)
Really enjoyed this one. Some decades ago, teaching and researching in machine tool design, nowadays just a hobbyist. You're much better at teaching than I ever was. Like very much that you have chosen to show it in one axis only. Made it much easier to understand. Will use your wisdom playing with the lathe.
Glad you enjoyed it! Try it out. You'll like it.
Nice lessons!
They do require a quick-change toolpost where tools can be changed with repeatable positions.
altough I am a novice this was a real eyeopener , Will for sure watch the video multiple times to really get it into my mind
thank you for all the awesome videos Joe,
regards from sweden //Ken
Glad you enjoyed it!
It took until 26:26 to realize that what you're "making" isn't the part; rather it's THE PROCESS SHEET that is the real project at this step. You're making your instruction set to be able to efficiently make more parts. Makes total sense now. 👍
About 15 minutes in, I’m glancing at the comments thinking I’m stupid. As soon as I read yours, the lightbulb came on! The part is irrelevant, it’s the process sheet! Now I’m gonna have to watch it again. Thanks Man!
I have been struggling to learn how to use ABS & INC on my DRO. It never really made sense to me on how they work together….. Until I watched this video! It was like a lightbulb went off! Great Video Joe
Glad it was helpful!
Thanks, Joe! I put a 2-axis DRO on my lathe. The obvious exercise for me is to extrapolate those techniques to that second axis. The key seems to be stopping the machine with the tool in the cut so you can read and record the position. Really great, fundamental stuff that will help my approach tremendously. Thanks, as always.
Just be aware that that method will not be advisable with insert tooling when turning anything as strong or stronger than mild steel. Partly because inserts are not sharp, and mainly because they are brittle, stopping the spindle before you withdraw almost always takes a nibble out of the edge as the rotation comes to a halt and the cutting force suddenly ramps up. This is so even when you have a dwell period where the tool does not move; there's almost always enough give or spring in the system that there is still enough residual pressure to keep the cutting tip engaged in the work.
I should have mentioned that I rarely stop a tool while in contact with the work piece. It jeopardizes the tool and will probably leave a mark on the part.
Thank you Joe! What a timely video for me, was doing a small batch of parts on my mill for my home machine shop and could not figure out how to effectively use the ABS and INC functions on my import DRO, even after reading the manual 57 times. Watching your video one gave me that “Aha!” moment
Excellent.
Super informative video Joe. Good job.
Good to see you again,Joe.I hope.Thank you.
Its good to have the opportunity to get back with you all ( Y'all).
Hi Joe, Great video! I love instructions that I can actually use. Have a great day. Bob
thanks Bob. You as well.
Thank you Joe. Was keeping the numbers in my head. Didn't consider a process sheet.
I don't think this was a lot. It was pretty straight-forward. Plan out your cuts and write down the numbers that make each feature, then just hit the numbers again and again and again...
This is a great lesson - appreciate the detailed explanation - it makes production style turning a lot less of a chore. Great to see you posting again!
Good to have the time.
That Mr Pie is valuable stuff sir. I have used the incremental function on the mill many times. It never occurred to me to use it on the lathe. Only god knows why! Thanks Brother.
Thank you Sir for taking the time to explain that. Is greatly appreciated.
Welcome.
Best example of how to use a dro I have ever been shown I'm retired now but when I was taught how to run multiple parts there were no dros so I learned the pad and paper method so cave man style compared to your version I still don't have a dro on my atlas lathe that is older than me but I been thinking about buying one even more now after watching your video I could make a form tool and a shave tool for a screw machine set it up and drop one off every 7 or 8 seconds on a 1inch multi thanks for sharing your knowledge with us don't work no more but still like to learn anything that catches my interest you are a very good machinist and a better teacher something that you hardly see anymore thanks
Thanks for the compliment.
Great information, could you please show more of this on the mill. Love the theory behind it all. Thanks again for sharing your incredible knowledge of the trade.
I have several mill videos showing how to ignore the backlash, or change up cutting sequence to assure accuracy. Look through the playlists.
@@joepie221 well that’s just great isn’t it 🥴
Do you have any idea how many of your videos I’m going to have to watch to find
that info. I’m choking on my own RAAAGE.
Love your work mate.
Very clever.
Essentially the numbers you are finding are a combination of tool offset and part geometry. If you had a fancy dro with tool offset capability you could do this separately, but this is a brilliant method for the rest of us mere mortals with simpler dro's (so long as you use insert tooling or don't disturb a tool offset by resharpening the tool part way through the production run).
Thanks Joe
Fascinating and instructive. Thanks Joe.
Glad you enjoyed it
FINALLY! I now understand how to use incremental. My head is spinning. But, I’ll watch the video several times to grasp it all. Thanks, Joe
They are actually easy to understand and use if someone takes the time to really explain the difference. Which one to use is normally driven by the dimensioning scheme on the print. If all features are dimensioned from the face of the part, all moves are probably absolute. If the fetures are dimensioned from each other along the length of the part, those would ( could) be incremental. The good thing is, once you zero the absolute and go to incremental, the absolute zero doesn't change. Unless of course you face the part off. Easy example: You are standing still in a snow covered field. That is absolute zero. It can also be incremental zero. Now zero the incremental scale and take a step. You have now moved 'x' in absolute from your starting position and 'xx' from your previous location. When you take your second step, the incremental value is the distance from your first step to the second. The absolute value is how far you are from where you started.
As stated on Rowan and Martins Laugh In, 'very interesting '. Thanks Joe for another great tutorial. Regards from Wales
I wonder if Artie Johnson ever finished that cigarette. But....didn't he occasionally finish that line with "but stupid"
Indeed he did but I did not think it appropriate to add that Joe. It just wouldn't be right!@@joepie221
Improved half inch quality is About 12.7mm or 12700 microns to be exact!
Great video as always, thanks Joe!!!
Hope to see more content you have some of the best out there.
Any chance I could get an experienced machinist such as yourself to comment on the ancient vases currently being scanned? There has been a challenge to replicate one out of any material.
Shoot me a link.
I tried leaving one in the comment didn’t work.
If you search vase scan project it will come up. Ben was on the Danny Jones podcast recently they talk about them for a good 40 min.
Clear as mud,,, will come back to watch and take notes after the chemo gets out of my foggy brain 😞. Not having a DRO on my lathe and selling it may not make since, but this is an instructional exercise to sharpen the mind 🤔🤪.
thank you for taking the time to show how to take the time to do it quicker
......clear as mud on my part, but Joe, keep posting please
try it a few times. The mud will clear.
Excellent video. My lathe is near-identical to yours and has a two-axis Newall Sapphire DRO that's now 41 years old. One day I'm going to swap the DRO for one with a tool library, but that old clunker is still hanging in there. I'm joining the Dark Side soon, bought a new Syil X5 CNC, but the Bridgeport and Colchester are definitely staying
Thanks Joe, thanks very much for this gem, yes it takes a minute to get in your head but the benefits are golden when making multiple parts, thank you for your time and patience.
My pleasure!
that was good thanks Joe, maybe some more of these to reinforce when you have batch runs :) appreciate it thanks again
Happy days! I was thinking it was a while since Joe had posted. This is great - I seldom use absolute and incremental but now I know how powerful it can be.
Very helpful.
Outstanding video as usual, always a treat to be exposed to your wisdom and experience. Thank you.
My pleasure!
Great demo on how to use ABS/INC ! Especially for those with an older basic DRO with no tool library( or limited tool library ). Nice meeting you last week. I keep a small dry erase board next to my lathe/mill for jotting down DRO settings. Your process sheet would be mo' better for repeat parts/production.👍
Hard to comprehend but I just like watching you work cause you are definitely a pro
Thanks.
Very good Joe, I like. Use what you've got before reaching for a CNC lathe you don't have.
Very true!
Since your carriage cross slide does not have DRO reading, you didn’t discuss backlash so your machine must be tight, most home hobby machines are worn and the backlash would present a problem…..am I correct in my thinking??? DRO in both directions who cares about the machine’s backlash ….ENJOYED!!!!!
Greetings chuck. backlash on my cross slide does exist ( barely ) but all my moves are away from me, so it never comes into play. Thanks for checking in.
@@joepie221 YUP!!! you the man as that is the answer I was taught by Chui (same as the mill), taught and remember? are two different subjects and your reply hoping others read these comments will learn and REMEMBER…LOL
Frickin' brilliant Joe! I say we call MNC....... manual numeric control.
Enhanced by the use of an eyecrometer too. :)
Thank you Joe, I will watch again. Awesome game plan.
Glad you enjoyed it
Spot on. Did similar with when making parts for missiles
I started with the mill where from plan I would end up working from a set of co ordinates, on the lathe I use basically the same system as your doing except I have a window directly behind and I use that like a white board instead of a paper copy. It saves a lot of time and "spares".
I like it.
Great video. I have just the exact project to apply this. Thanks Joe.
hey Joe Pie is back !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! yay !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
unloosen your belt and sit down to watch !!
Thanks. Your enthusiasm is much appreciated.
All new to me, but nice to see you use h.s. & alloy steel tool bits. Use what have for short runs. Thanks.
I have a lot of very useful HSS tools. I lean towards the cobalt ones.
You’re a human CNC machine. Thanks for the video.
Pretty interesting way of logging offsets.. I like it.
Thanks 👍
Love your work Joe.
Thank you!
Thanks for watching.
Depending on quanity, make a form tool, plunge all dim. in one shot. Hardinge Turret Lathe are great for parts like this.
A one shot form tool would be ideal, but not everyone has the capability to do that.
Hi Joe, I know I'm showing my age. Back in the 60's in my Apprenticeship my forman gave me 2" peice of scrap and told me to make a cube. I was setting up a mill and he comes over saying NO, NO, NO. Handed me a file and pointed to a bench vice.
Thanks Joe. Made perfect sense. 👍👍😎👍👍
BTW, Stuart do a planer, which is like a giant shaper. If you look at my second to last video, it is of the Midland Model Engineering exhibition, and part of it is the Stuart stand with many of there models on it.
ua-cam.com/video/1iQuwdqX6fI/v-deo.html 2:17 for anyone that would like to see it. Thanks for the link. I love these shows.
Joe, not sure if anyone has already mentioned this, but you can get neutral density filters for your camera to stop it down more - you can then use brighter lights and not wash out th4e camera sensor.
Great technique - once I get my DRO, I'll give this a try. How do you deal with backlash on the cross-slide dial settings?
Backlash doesn't come into play if the dial movements are always in the clockwise direction.
Yep allot to take in but something for me to work on thanks for the tutorial.
Glad to help
Interesting tutorial. Many thanks.
Glad you enjoyed it
very slick
Practical too.
nice & logical...process...😊
You’re not checking the alternating tools for chips or swarf that throw them out of tolerance?
I regularly do, but I wonder if I am wasting time.
Your surface finish is a solid indicator of a problem. I do check production parts, but it depends on the quantity, material and setup.
THANK_YOU!!!
Pretty slick!!
Joe. You are a god. 😬 I’d love to see your setup.
I just bought a 1968 Southbend heavy 10L.
I’m thinking of converting the lead and cross screw to ball screws, and adding a DRO. What are your thoughts on this? What DRO should I look at? (Two axis Z and X).
I’m also thinking of converting it to a 4.25 hp Leili treadmill motor with variable speed, forward and reverse and electric break (already built).
I’m having trouble with the taper pin holding the taper attachment. Both ends are flush with the trunnion. It just won’t come out. Any ideas?
I know you are busy but if you can’t figure it out, no one can.
Thanks,
Paul
Yet another excellent lesson, Joe. Will the ability to crank out subsequent parts more quickly create the need to build in time for the material temperature to cool in order to prevent variations in final dimensions ?
That is what secondary operations are for, accuracy.
Awesome tip. Now I just need a DRO. 😉
Christmas is coming. Put it on your list. :)
@@joepie221 🎅
Thank you.
Welcome!
Thanks again
You bet.
Hey Joe, are we looking at CREO in the beginning of the video? Or is that ProE
PTC is the parent company of Pro-E. The beginning of the video was a model done in Wildfire 4.0. That is just a name for the pro-e edition. It has since evolved into creo. So kind of yes to your question. I use, and love this software. Its much more capable than most users.
Welcome
👍 thanks
How much accuracy is lost by changing tools? If your tolerances are +/- .010” you probably will be ok. If they are tighter than that you could have some problems IMO. Otherwise I liked the process and plan on using it in the future.
Aloris QCTP are incredibly accurate. They will easily repeat with .001" all day long. if yours deviates by +/- .010, its time to get a new one.
Making 100 off you should make good bonus on that job.
As you crank them out, you will get much faster by the end.
Great tutorial, but a few points-
Axis are arbitrary- but normally a twin axis would be X,Y and a single axis X (as your DRO manufacturer agrees). For a lathe, it is normally X for the carriage and Y for the cross slide. A convention, but largely followed.
You are using the incremental as an offset for another tool- Ideally the DRO would have a number of incrementals, which could each be assigned to a different tool. Then you could set up all tools with (in effect) their relative offsets, then using the absolute tool you could zero a new workpiece once, and all the other tools would be zeroed in ( their zero points would be moved by the same amount as the master). This would work with any workpiece/design - just set the absolute, select the inc. for the tool you are using, and follow the print. Anyone know a DRO that has this? I am currently making a DRO, and will incorporate this (select by tool number).
How do you work with only a single axis DRO? If I only had one channel, I would want it to be the cross slide...
Though convention is a good baseline, I was under the impression the spindle was always the Z axis. Other DRO's do exist for individual tool setting, but you better remember to switch between offsets when you change the tool.
@@joepie221 I would be tempted to fit 'tool detectors' (micro switch) to the tool rack, linked to the DRO. With the right software, zeroing ANY tool would zero in all of them. Would save a lot of time.
We have a 3 axis on our Clasing and use the "Z" for the carnage. I pt the X on the tail stock. We only mount the compound when we need it- Use a solid block most of the time,,,,,,and we drill a hell of a lot more holes to depth then we do single point threading or high angle turning and the compound dial works just fine for that.
With the cost of these chi-com DROs I wonder why more people don't have them on the tail stock (Never had ANY luck with the chinese digital calipers and there is no way I'm going to buy a Starrett and chop it up for a tail stock read out)
@@mathewmolk2089 The magnetic scales with the separate readout module are easy to convert- they give a clocked data reading that feeds easily into an Arduino. Add a small touch screen, and you can read several into one display. Much cheaper than glass scales, and smaller. Four gives you carriage, cross feed, compound, and tailstock.
@@joepie221 That was what I was first taught. I also was also taught the coordinates and direction of XY table on a mill/router/etc is always oriented like cartesian plane, but I've seen more than one or two mills where the Y was flipped. Even my new South Bend (couple years ago) was flipped. Drove me bonkers so I got into the setup and changed it.
It's really not that complicated or too much to absorb. It's just using multiple co-ordinate systems that account for tool offsets and the measurements in the drawing, and mapping them all back to a common co-ordinate system. It's actually very simple and elegant! Every CNC basically does the same thing, it just hides all of the layers of offsets from the user and presents you with everything in one common coordinate system too, but at the lowest level, all the machine moves are happening in "absolute" or machine coordinates anyway.
I understand you dont have one but most newer digital readouts, you can press the tool number button and then set the offsets for each tool just like you do on a cnc. Speaking of cnc, you could have made 50 of these parts while you were making this video with no one actually running the machine. Lol
Really? "Could've" is not the point of this video. Jeez Louise.
You are correct with both observations.
easier to understand the concept when it's shown
No DRO sadly Joe
Long throw drop indicator mounted to the bed ways?
Could not figure out what it is used for
Video is more about the how, not really the what.
This makes my head hurt. ... Well, maybe it's something else. This is Sunday morning.
I'm thinking some credit to the repeatable tool holder...just saying....As You Were
Can't beat an Aloris QCTP
I always thought this was common sense. my father must have had a good teacher when I was seven and first got into this trade field. just goes to show what we assume is common sense, we were all taught it at some point.
Common sense isn't so common anymore.
Unless I am dumber than usual you were using the numbers as a conceptual jig,what might be a waste of time for a single part can save lots of time in series production.
I probably wouldn't do this for a single part.
I don't think you showed how you pulled the stock out to the right place. I assume you positioned the facing tool and bumped the stock into that.
Doesn't really matter. Zero the digital once you face it off and off you go. I do have a video on 'production parting' if you need another idea on how to do it. ua-cam.com/video/8Z79i481QyI/v-deo.html
Can we talk？
aiproductinfo@gmail.com Anytime.
✋🏼🇦🇺👍🏼
Astros or Rangers?
I don't have a dog in that fight. Either way, a Texas team will win. :)
Going to need a nap and replay this again. Yes...I have more respect for my DRO...
I would have loved working across from you in a manual shop...50+ years ago...Carry on JOE!
Next time around !
An add onto a yesterday day comment. Rex 95 and Mo-Max were my favorite when I could get my hands on either one. You might laugh at the following but while serving time as a railroad machinist apprentice, some of the old head machine men (as opposed to nut splitters working on erecting floor) told me that during the depression money was so tight that they couldn’t get even the Rex A series tool bits very often. So in a pinch they would find an old square file, grind the teeth off, then to the shape desired and use as necessary. You can imagine the cutting speed was not very high and calipers were the norm and as an apprentice you were expected to be able to read a half-a-64th on a scale! Keep up the nice work. Chris A. Retired but still making a few chips now and then.
I've actually done the file trick. They make good knives too.
Understand it once; Use it forever
Give a man a fish and feed him for the day, teach him how to fish and feed him for life.
I've watched this 3 times and I'm still lost! I think that I'll go out that I'll go outside and play in the mud. Maybe I can handle that!
I had to make 9 finials like this out of 8mm brass rod. Boy, this would have sped things up. Many thanks.
The first piece is always the longest any ways, so why not go the extra mile and map the moves. Its a huge time saver.
I love how my confusion transitions to comprehension by the end of the video, as usual this was very informative and efficient, I have learned so much from your videos Joe, your awesome!! I wish you had a school for machinists because I'd DEFINITELY be a student there! Thank you again for another great video!...
I'm glad it was helpful and I hope it make things easier going forward !
Joe Pie is the machinist I always wanted to be. I sure hope there’s a few youngsters there picking up what he’s putting down.
Thanks. I truly hope so too.
Great process to use the absolute/incremental modes. Made perfect sense! Hey, that's a pretty big wolf spider hanging out on your back wall!
wmk
Spider.....what spider? :)
Seems like an awfully tedious way to do addition... Get the tool to a known location relative to zero on the drawing, subtract that value from the DRO readout, and you have DRO zero for that tool. Add that to all the feature locations on the drawing and you have their locations in DRO coordinates.
In the past I’ve added points to my drawings representing the tool offsets and dimensioned to that for the different tools. But addition works too. I don’t think I’d do it this way
This method is doing exactly what you have just suggested. Toggling between abs and incr is giving you the values you need, without you having to add or subtract anything.
When one thinks about it, it makes perfect sense. I tend to label as x/y moves, but I also tend to make one offs or multiple simple parts such as all the studs and nuts for my 10v Stuart.
Great tutorial
Thank you!
Thanks Joe, definitely going to re-watch.
Cannot “Like” enough. Owning a non-CNC machine is worth what you make of it.
Very Impressive. Thanks 👍👌
Nicely done!
Fantastic video. How perfect is this for making that chess set l Long delayed because of the boredom of turning so many identical pieces. Thanks Joe. So many things around my hobby machine shop inspired by you and now a shaped cardboard tube added to my tool drawers
Perfect application.