The BIGGEST PROBLEM With The Guild Wars 2 Economy
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- Опубліковано 6 лип 2024
- This video is a little different. I’ll be talking about what I think is the biggest problem with the Guild Wars 2 economy in a bit more of a raw and unstructured format than I usually do. I’ll also try to provide some context and examples, so the video is more grounded and engaging. Hopefully a wealthier gold maker’s perspective on this will be interesting or informative to listen to. Feel free to let me know your opinions in the comments. I’m curious to see if people like this type of format or not. It’s similar to what MightyTeapot and Mukluk do, but it’s definitely not the type of topic either of them would ever cover.
Discord Link for my Guild [Life]
/ discord
TIMESTAMPS
0:00 What Is The Problem?
0:47 The Economic Trend Of Guild Wars 2
2:23 Why Is It A Problem?
4:53 Why The System Itself Is Not The Problem
5:29 ArenaNet’s Biggest Solution
10:57 What Else Can Be Done?
15:45 Conclusion
#guildwars2 #gw2 - Ігри
Another recent solution that I just remembered with Wintersday around the corner was earlier this year, when ArenaNet removed food/enhancement items (like tins of fruitcake and tuning icicles) from festival containers (like Wintersday gifts). While it's been nice to have cheap sources of endgame PvE consumables, it has sort of removed some of the impact that crafting those types of items would have had as material sinks. Since a lot of PvE consumables are used throughout the year, that change adds back a reason to sink a decent amount of items crafting food/enhancements. It's a small change, but it's refreshing to see that they're looking at the game and thinking about stuff like this.
Research notes were another thing they added (which are kind of part of generation 3 legendaries) that are controversial and maybe could have been implemented better, but are another solution that shows that they're recognizing and working on fixing the problem.
go to ember bay between shipwreck beach and bleeding pulpiit, and look at the engineers and necros sitting on the beach and tell me that's not the issue with the game... they have tons of spots like this they sit in... and farm 24/7
@@williamrobb31 I don't recall ever saying that I thought AFK farmers weren't an issue.
@@williamrobb31 How is this relevant?? Are you ok??
Solution: Craftable decorations for personal housing and the need to use materials to build the house itself
i love this suggestion!
Agreed or just personal housing at all. Not the lame excuse for a "home instance" today.
Great idea!
Craftable mount skins would probably be a huge sink and one that most players would love to spend their time on.
Even craftable saddle accessories, or mount/dismount animations and sounds, so we can personalize small details of a mount without conflicting with variations ANet sells on the Gem Store.
Never gonna happen, even though it would be awesome, allowing us to craft things that they could instead sell to us in the shop is a non-starter.
As a returning player that hasn't played since the release I was pretty surprised that there were like no ways to just earn mount skins or make them. I completely understand it's because of their payment model as a free to play game but you'd think there would atleast be something
Remember a few years ago when they had the event in Lion's Arch where you were supposed to donate Mithril, and people donated millions, if they made an event like that again with several different materials and made something substantially worth it for players, it could be an extremely short term way to sink millions of materials out of the economy.
Let's put the skritt in charge of the development. They would ensure the steady flow of more shinies!
For the past few months, I've been doing almost nothing but weekly raids, weekly strikes, and daily fractals, and, due to price drop, whatever purchase I had to make, I've always had money for, due to timegates on already existing sinks (such as leggy crafting) being way too wide. I barely need to buy anything, and my resources or money never even enter the economy, because I just shelf everything and then use it in crafting by the time I've acquired another sixty nine billion of every map currency just to proceed with the next step of crafting my leggy. Between how easy it is to just brew in an ecosystem of nearly complete self-sufficiency, and how little incentive there is to actually participate in the economy for endgame-stage players, the "catch-up" game is about to become less and less bearable for the new players, who have little to no access to daily money-printing activities, and have to resort to selling their resources for next to nothing.
I regret, there is but one "like" to give.
I’m so glad someone is talking about this aspect of the game, I love learning about the underlying system that makes things run. Knowing this info really helps me use my time as effectively as possible in game. Thank you!
I am so delighted with that non aggressive tone which you engage the conversation with! It calls for the devs to actually listen. I am hopeful they will and hope my humble comment will help the algorithm get to them. Please continue.
The Sollution is crafting: Create a proper housing system and make ppl use materials to craft their houses and furniture (a perfect world would be a fusion of FFXIV + ESO housingn systems - the freedom from FFXIV + the pletora of options for houses from ESO); make more collections with lots of armor and weapons that you have to craft all of them; make a conversor or a "trading house" where you can change any material for other stuff; make some mount skins craftable; make all infusions craftable, etc
People have suggested POH for a while in GW2. Maybe the 4th expansion is the one.
they should also bring back those mystic forge events like they did for mithril/volatile magic
Yea, those also have achievements related to them that new players can never complete now.
The problem with infusion sink(s) is that when they go for them they try to make it _absurdly_ expensive. 2300g for frost legion right now for crafting. So a lot of players just go "screw this, I'm not farming materials for half a year to make one infusion" and it stops working once rich/TP barons are done with theirs. Similar to festival gambling -- odds of getting anything nice get "tweaked" down every year and more and more people just stop pointless gambling and sink stops working. If they didn't try to rip off players on RNG as hard as they do now it'd be better
There's always room to add sinks at varying price points. They could do more generic ones, like recolored peerless infusions, at say 200g in mats and then more unique ones at higher price points.
3:26 i felt that LB5 in my heart :/
Legendary Infusions aswell as Legendary Breather to completely finish the "full legendary" idea would be lovely.
I love the idea of crafting account bound infusions, or at least add more items to craft that will be worth crafting. I personally love crafting as a side profit for my overflow of materials but I have noticed that some raw materials became useless from a money-making standpoint because the TP value became less than their vendor value or the items you can craft with them would cause you to lose money. These items that I saw in this state also would be loss of profit to upgrade to the higher tier so I'm stuck with either selling the raw material to the vendor or save until it becomes profitable to use again.
I think one thing important thing to note is the number of account upgrades for “getting started” for gold and gems. A lot of new players coming into the game means these start up costs that are in raw gold, not materials, make it more desirable. This may be just a natural ebb and flow from more players.
That may exacerbate the effect, but this trend started before EoD and Steam release.
Yeah I definitely agree it’s an accelerator, not a cause. Just as a new player these are the biggest issue I’ve encountered. It’s also because without a lot of storage, it’s harder to even save materials. The materials I sell aren’t items I don’t need; just items I can’t hold. It’s a bit frustrating. Really appreciate all your guides too!
The one thing that has been baffling me for years, is why a mithril ingot only requires 2 ores, wood requires 3, and leather 4 (which way way back was not the case and also only required 3 IIRC). Even without trying I have a massive oversupply of it to the point I can do the daily ascended thing which requires 50 mithrilium for Deldrimor ingots and I've got over 150 in the bank, and I'm far from an active player. :|
It's definitely odd to see this far down the road. A lot of earlier design decisions haven't aged well, which you'll see with any game, so I wouldn't fault ArenaNet for it. It just might be time to take a second look at things like that now that the game has matured a lot.
@@abree107 youre right. but the thing is: you should watch the development and correct the system if you see, that it doesnt work anymore.. anet increased the leather later on with a patch, it wasnt 4 at release, so they could have done the same to mithril etc, but they didnt. thats where you can blame them. iam not sure about the time here, but i know that anet had an economist in the team that was working with balacing the system and i believe, that they stopped using him for that in 2015 or 16
@@dharkbizkit At the end of the day, you can blame them for anything. It is their game after all. What I'm more concerned with now is what they will do moving forward.
Craftable rare infusions should be provided. I think it helps lower the gold value and consume huge resources and it will be a long way to craft for every character.
Curious about your thoughts on research notes as a mat sink
I added them in the pinned comment. I had meant to bring them up and forgot, since this video was much more loosely constructed than my guide videos. You could definitely make the argument that the way they implemented them wasn't ideal (i.e. they could've made a permanent reusable research kit or changed the number of notes given by certain items), but the idea itself obviously had some merit and is very relevant to this problem. There's a reason that only craftable items are able to be broken down.
Does ANet still have an economist? I remember they had one at release...
They did, and I believe they hired one again this past year? Or maybe the year before? That might be why we've seen more and more solutions integrated the past year or so.
The new map has keycards you have to buy with materials so there is another material sink they just added to the game
I suppose they could also simply reduce the gold sinks, e.g. reduce the TP fee. It would be an unusual solution, but it should work, at least longterm.
It would solve the price issue, but not the underlying supply problem. We still need destinations for materials to be funneled that players like to use their materials/gold for.
as an achievements hunter I burned my entire stash of like 5K ectos, when I decided to go after the Ice brood saga collection recently, not to mentions mithril and orich
Honestly, they just need to add a gambling mechanic where you can gamble crafting materials for a chance at black lion exclusive skins etc.
Anet doesn't even need to develop new assets, and they can control the rarity of their exclusives by having the prize pool cycle out to whatever they want.
If they want to consume a lot of X resource? Launch a weekend event where you get double odds when buying tickets with that resource. Want to absorb a lot of materials period? Throw a legendary into the prize pool with crazy low odds.
People would start dumping materials like crazy AND the increase demand would help pull up the price for cheap mats.
If you knew you could potentially get a legendary for betting a stack of copper, even if the odds are astronomically low, you know everyone and their dog is gonna be buying copper and dumping it into that.
I don't know if I can agree that a gambling system is an ideal fix. I think gambling in video games is already a little excessive.
@@abree107 I guess I didn't think about it from the standpoint that gems (and therefore gold) can be bought with real money.
Last thing I'd want is Anet slapped with an EA style lawsuit because some kid spent $50,000 on mommy's credit card or whatever so they could get "the aurora shortbow skin."
If the materials that went into it couldn't be obtained via real-world-money, then I think it would work, but yeah, you raise a good point.
On that note though, do you consider the Zephryte festival as "gambling?" I mean, I know it's not called that but looking at it mechanically now, it looks pretty much the same: put mats in, maybe (maybe maybe maybe) cool skin pops out?
@@kelleren4840 I'd consider anything RNG based that relies on you to get lucky and have a roll hit way earlier than average to come out ahead "gambling". If you're going to include an RNG component for loot rolls, I don't think there should be a "buy-in" associated with it. It should just be time input and ideally I'd want the RNG aspect to be transparent. Runescape does it well. Your chance at a good drop might be only 1/512, but you're just spending your time and a small amount of consumable supplies to kill the mob and roll those odds, you're not gambling gold or real money. And the drop rate is known to you up front because it's made publicly available, so you can figure out how likely you are to get it. If you're getting 256 kills per hour, it will take you 2 hours on average and you'll know that up front. Obviously you can get lucky or unlucky still, but it's a far more transparent system that doesn't just do what casinos do and give you wildly terrible odds and require you to pay to roll.
What about a way to convert mats to luck? Do you think that would be a good material sink?
That would be an interesting one. Currently, the best way to get luck is salvaging ectos for dust, but that doesn't sink materials as much as it does transform them. Once players reach max luck, there's also few uses for luck other than trading them for bags during the lunar new year event, which just gives you more materials to deal with. They'd probably have to add luck to more recipes than just gen 3s for them to be able to add a system where you trade mats for luck, at least for the system to be effective.
To be honest, I'd be happy to be able to do the opposite... I have no use for luck anymore.
@@khymaaren lunar new year in 1 week
@@abree107 Now, why didn't I think of that...
Thanks. :)
I think one of the other reasons a lot of this is going on because arenanet never changed the raw materials that were received in-game. (ie mithril can be mined from the core game all the way to EOD.)
We've also increased the quantity of gear people get, which is fine. It just means the hurdle to sink stuff is higher.
Every thing that is a recolor, change of animation or shines is in the cashshop, where they gain a bit of money , pocket money, every money sink is utility so we need to think what other utility can be added to a game that has almost everything in that category
They do release skin sets outside of the gem store. The volcanic weapon skins are a pretty good example. The increase in accessibility for bags through Icebrood Saga is another utility option they've added, but unfortunately those sink Eitrite ingots and raw gold more than they sink materials.
@@abree107 true they do add those , like the legendary skins for the aurene weapons thay ask for memories and research notes
There are a lot of cool skins like the Spirit weapons you can get from the Mystic Forge. The issue is that they all require prohibitive amounts of Mystic Coins, a heavily timegated material which already has a huge sink in the form of legendaries.
The introduction of research notes was also supposed to support the material economy. But it inevitably has a path of least resistance, a cheapest item to salvage, and it always will.
Yep, it takes a lot of different sinks working in tandem to make decent progress. Thankfully, ArenaNet seems to be aware of the problem and at least thinking about it when they're designing stuff. It's a step in the right direction.
imo they should unleash a few mount skins that have a chance to drop in mat sinks. Or account bonuses like the 4 weeks of black lion things they did recently for an extra build tab.
Would be nice to see cool things to trade materials for that we normally see in the shop.
I was so happy to see something like that occur so soon after I brought up the topic in this video. It's not quite as big of a sink as I'd have liked and I think ArenaNet may have actually been a bit too generous with what they gave, but it's still a step in the right direction.
Making it a permanent feature and giving a black lion key each week for a stack of mats would be a decent way to give it a lasting benefit.
And 6 months later Anet announced a new legendary armor set thats broadly achieveable
lol.
You coud add material cost to masteries with new expansion or ability to buy mastery points for some seriouse price with comon materials.
An infusion rework and legendary infusions would be nice. But would be at a development cost.
Visual infusion effects become account-wide wardrobe unlocks.
Allow the fusing of Agony resistance and WvW infusions
New legendary infusions that has all of the above including stat selection and changing.
Big one I can think of:
Materials conversion to skirmish tickets or Memories of Battle in WvW. If I could throw a thousand ectos and 50 gold at an NPC for 250 claim tickets...I'd be more than happy to.
Just to add clarification. The quickest any WvW player can get enough skirmish tickets for a full set is 22 weeks. That assumes that the player is earning Diamond participation (max) status to get the 365 maximum per week tickets. Participation is purely based on Pip ticks and not actual ability. So, there are multiple instances of players basically using WvW as an AFK screen saver, only completing some objective every 10 minutes or so.
I'd rather have the pip system revamped.
Yes they can put more material sinks in the game, but if you look where the major liquid gold incentives are, they are helping to promote group activities. The 2 gold for dailies encourages logging in and doing at least some activities, which is the major exception to my previous statement. Fractals, Dungeons, Strikes, and Raids all have liquid gold rewards attached and would likely need gold to be worthwhile to encourage players to branch out of solo content and provide the necessary player pool to keep the group content going. Keeping incentives around to engage players in new (to them) content also keeps those players from hitting a "I've done everything I think I can do, so I'm bored and leaving the game now" thought-process.
In addition, having cheap materials available does help with legendary crafting, particularly when recipes call for 250 of multiple ingredients. Staring at a wall of 1500 needed mithril for a precursor crafting stage looks less daunting when I can run a couple of days of Fractal Dailies and grab stacks at a time.
Placing raw gold strategically as rewards does incentivize players that decide to participate in instanced content. The problem still exists for a large portion of players that fall in love with the game due to open world and then decide to stay in that part of the game. That's not me and it doesn't sound like it's you either, but it is a lot of other people. The materials they're getting are worth less than what they're trying to buy, whether it be griffon, legendary mats, whatever. Fractal players make out like bandits, but open world players get sort of screwed. If ArenaNet wants to push the game in that direction though, I'll be wanting a couple more new fractals. ;)
It is always funny to me when players make statements like "I've done everything", because without exception those players have always barely scratched the surface. It is a strange thought process.
+ I kinda like raw gold farming system in games, and I don't really enjoy wiping my bank to get some gold in GW2.
By the way, for instance, in open world we have baubles for raw gold. +Anet was smart enough to add them to eod map reward track at least. It works kinda fine(low profit tho) but I feel there's a way to polish it further.
it was a really interesting video to watch. i did not think of such a problem, as an almost excluse pvp player that makes his gold from playing rank games. although not recommended since i just made maybe around 6000 gold during more than 1000 hours of excluse pvp games, i never realized about it.
Here's a solution that involves gold rather than materials: variable trade tax. Weekly adjust the trade tax based on a few indicators around the inflation of item prices.
The process behind this is the following: item inflation -> lower trade tax -> less money sink -> gold deflation diminishes -> item inflation diminishes.
It's a self fixing mechanism because whenever a new variable is thrown in from some new game content, the system will self regulate to a stable trend with minimal fluctuations.
Great Vid, was thinking abt this, too.
Remove or reduce the tax on TP? seems like a cheap and simple gauge anet can flop around at their whim
I believe that'd be harder to implement in practice than it seems in theory. There's also likely to be complaints about people making posts for stuff to sell, accepting a certain tax rate, then being taxed at a different rate at the actual time of sale. It would probably be more likely that they'd go for the gem tax first. I'm obviously not a developer for the game though, so I can only speculate.
The hero we need to solve material supply, The "Mystic forge "researcher"".
i have 1250 slot for metarials in my bank. i didnt have every material stocked at 1250, but many. like ectos, all the t6 mats for legy crafting in 2016, my gw eff bank thing showed the worth of all those mats combined on the TP at around 3500 gold. been offline for a while, didnt care about the bank, just played on an off a bit, came back and wups, the worth is down to 1384.. :-/ it feels like i lost the worth a legy on the tp, just by beeing offline for some time. maybe iam wrong here, but i dont think gambling for high prices items is a good solution here.. by that i mean infusions with very low dropchance in containers, paid for, by materials.. people realize how low the chances are and when the demand for thos mats rises they will farm them, creating more input in the system. on the other hand, you have people like me, that dont wanna gamble, and thus farm, to buy the infusion of the tp. i do that, by farming the mats that sell for good prices, thus people like me flood the market. one other problem, for stuff like t6 blood is: back during vanilla, you would get these drop only in level 80 areas.. but today, every new map is level 80, you constantly there, where t6 stuff drops. i dont think, that the economy is broken yet, but i also dont think, that it will get any better in the future. they know theyre fighting the wind here. give it 4 more years, and the situation will be even worse..
They've started recognizing it and taking steps to address it. I believe they also have an economist on staff again now, so that should help. I'd definitely prefer infusions that don't need to be gambled for, that you can just exchange a static amount of materials to earn.
Bots farming massive amounts of resources is also causing deflation as it inflates supply whilst demand doesn't follow.
If you haven't yet, a video on how the new legendary armor has changed this with its provisioner tokens
It's more about the ecto thus far. There's so much in the recipe and people are using tons of it for rift farming to get all the currency they need. Not a bad idea for a video, but I'll probably wait to see where everything ends up after a bit.
I do not really agree with the fact that: "There should be not big difference between content gold rewards". Doing fractals gives you more gold than a normal meta event for (let's say) the same time investment even it's not really accurate because it really depends on your group.
End game content requires an important initial investment in order to be done and T4 fractals or even CMs( which are the most profitable and are the ones that gives u an important return on your effort) require you to have 150 AR AND full Ascended gear (including infused and attuned rings) just to be able to access them. Than it's the skill requirement of the group in order to even finish them.
Meta events should not be considered end game content by any means, there are no requirements in terms of gear or even skill in order to finish them and get rewards. There are ppl out there parking gearless alts on Tarir meta or any "profitable" meta actually and they earn gold by tag-ing the bosses and get the rewards with no effort or investment at all.
So, in my opinion, saying that it should be just a matter of what players enjoy doing and there should be no or small difference between drops and gold earning from materials that a meta event gives u compared with fractal (for example) because the players that doesn't enjoy fractals or raids and are just doing meta events train should be able to earn just as much, it's not a valid statement.
In my opinion, as long as the meta events and afk farming works as they do now( doesn't require any effort at all, just your time and they can be abused) it's perfectly normal to give u less return on your time investment than an End Game activity that rewards you only once a day or even once a week and requires specific gear and skill in order to be done ( even more in order to be done efficiently).
Curently, if u finish Soo Won meta event( which is the hardest in the game) you are rewarded with at least 4 gold( which is the sell price of ASS) and other materials and stuff. That's equivalent with a raid boss CM which, depending on what boss u chose, may be impossible to kill weekly for 80% of game population( thinking of Dhuum or Q1 CMs). And the meta is once per day, the raid reward is once per week.
Perhaps the way that I said it wasn't super clear. Right now an efficient CM +T4s group can get maybe 80% or so higher gold/hr than an efficient meta farm with all of the relevant map bonuses and account unlocks with boosters. Like you said, it makes sense to proportionately give more rewards for more intensive content. But if CMs + T4s don't change in gold output and meta farms say, half in gold output over time, the ratio of rewards and effort get skewed to the point where it's not proportional anymore. It's not me saying that open world farms should give anywhere near as much as end-game content. It's me saying that the ratio between effort and reward should ideally be 1:1, not 1:3 etc. 10-30 gold per hour depending on effort, boosters, and map bonuses (for LS4 mostly) for open world farming is healthy compared to the 30-60 gold per hour fractals can provide for their increased effort and requirements. If open world farms drop to 5-15 gold per hour, that's too low relative to the effort being expended. Open world farms ARE easier, but getting the high end of that gold range still isn't necessarily what I'd call "low effort". But anyways, I'm all for higher effort content being more rewarding than lower effort content. I didn't mean to convey that I'm not.
I think, there is only one long term solution to the deflation and it's consumables. Craftable Infusions or housing can have a huge and medium term impact, but at some time the player base will be saturated, because the longer it exists the more players already crafted it and it will be less effective. On the other hand I dont know if I want a lot more consumables, because it doesn't feel that rewarding for players to spend a lot of materials into something that isn't permanent.
Market update: Black Lion Requisition Missions. 4 weeks of it came and left, not sure how ANet will do with this new sink but in the short term, it seems to work. The missions target a lot of high-yielding materials and they reward Black Lion Statuettes which are account-bound. I'm sure ANet has the data from this little experiment now and calculating what to do next.
It goes to show that they understand the problem. I'd like to see something that's more permanent, but is a little less rewarding for the sake of stability. If people could donate materials each week for a couple black lion keys or something small like that, I'm sure people would be into it.
They should add a mastery badge that costs ridiculous amounts of resources so that only the most hardcore players get to the highest level.
They could even make it take years.
Then when you right click the badge it shows a number above your character's head.
Kind of like a craft able mastery rank.
At least guild MM would do that.
Such problem wherein materials are getting cheaper everyday can be a bad thing but also a good indactor tbh. For one, this game, once fully purchased, literally requires no additional funds to be played, this means the game doesn't reward people that much if they add a little bit more cash into their character. In other words, not much of gold is being added into the economy of the game. Mostly of the vids I see in yt back in august where steam release was still early price of glob of ectoplasm was sitting are 20s-ish or higher, and it sits in 13g ish now. I believe this is because of new players, once their storage material is full, they insta sell their globs of which I do too. Number 2, the number 1 source of income in the game is literally by selling salvaged materials and the only reason I believe to sell materials is if you have surplus. To sum this all up, materials in general deppreciates in value because production of such materials outpaces the production of gold. This is further accelerated by new players selling such items which means guild wars population is increasing which is a good thing.
It becomes a bad thing when it starts to hamper player's abilities to earn gold. It's especially bad for players trying to buy salvage kits and account upgrades with gold at the moment, but to a lesser degree it makes purchasing missing components for legendaries more difficult as well.
true the items just oversupply anet need to do something like enhance weapons like the others mmo did or crafting some skins with mats, make new tier of legendary weapon i mean the better one than old legendary weapon with diff stats etc
Horizontal progression is a double edge sword, but I doubt ArenaNet will ever change the design of the game from being horizontal. There's a lot in the way of cosmetics and quality of life that can be added though. It would be interesting to see if they could make new additions to gear that added room for some type of functional benefit, although that's sort of what the jade bot is.
Maybe someday they will introduce some kind of vertical progression, ye that would be huge sink of mats and gold xd
I think we'll get GW3 before that happens. They've really stuck to their guns on horizontal.
Solution: real player housing and u need to craft or buy using resourses a lot of stuff for house, garden etc. This would be massive material sink. And yes I'm high on copium
I think a lot of people have suggested that in the past. It is a possibility, considering that there's an expansion coming up. It's hard to imagine what other new systems can be added, considering that we already have gliding and other mobility masteries, mounts, and now boats/jade bots. Some of the EoD stuff was a surprising reach, so I don't think it's too out there for proper POH systems to be added.
seeing the ecto supply crash is funny, price is going tup to 20silver again too
That'd be a 4 winds phenomenon.
Good to know. I really don't like how mithril is so cheap. But i get it. No ones need it anyway.
imo, one good sink could be high end exp boosters, spirit shards have loads of value and exp would be a way to convert ectos as an example into spirit shards
lol so thats why Coarse Sand is so expansive, i wanted to sell it i had like 2 stacks and when the price loaded i was like woah hey woah WOAH! i probebly should hold onto this I dont want to have to buy it again later for more gold lol, it did set me back, i'm working on twilight, and its my first legendary, i'm working on getting the mystic clovers through reward tracks alone, not wasting any materials, selling only the things I dont need for twilight, and it is hard dude. Important tip if you want Mystic Clovers, the unrepeatable reward tracks can be done both on PVP and WvW, meamning the Drizzlewood Coast reward track can give you up to 28 Clovers, Bjora Marches gives you 22, and Grothmar Valley gives you 18. It takes a while to get those done, but f you are doing youre dailies in PVP and WvW you would get them, plus along the way you get the materials you need for the rest of the legendary.
FASHION IS ALWAYS A BEST SELLER- I AGREE W YOU ABOUT CRAFTABLE SKINS- DESGIN IS THE PROBLEM- EVERYTHING LOOKS THE SAME. MEDIUM ARMOR LOOKS LIKE A DRESS ON MALES- NEW FRESH IDEAS NEED TO BE HAD
The real problem is that most people aren't crafting because there's little profit in it. Even with reduced crafting material prices, crafting margins on most gear is mediocre at best. Volume on those products often make it a gable to invest in. You won't find a gold guide that suggests crafting ever.
This is mostly because for any exotic gear, there are named gears that drop, or if the stats aren't on named gear with those stats, there are acceptable or better stats out there, driving down volume. This is great for new players, but bad for players trying to make gold. This increases the habit of people farming mats to make gold, rather than using mats to make gold.
I think a good solution would be to give some kind of crafting bonus that puts crafted gear somewhere between named and ascended gear. Maybe a single infusion slot which would in turn increase fractal participation and allow players who don't have ascended gear to progress higher into fractals and would make fractal progression more smooth.
Crafting is a wildly underrated method of gold making, but most roads of functional crafting lead to ascended/legendary gear, consumables, and collections. And most players only craft 1-2 sets of gear and there's not a high amount of materials required for most collections. I'd like to see them incentivize crafting more, even if it's just for cosmetics.
@@abree107 So do an episode on crafting for gold. It will increase crafting rates, which will help increase mat prices.
@@manslaughterinc.9135 My previous video is on making gold via crafting and focuses on everything that isn't a legendary. The big problem is that making gold from crafting requires you to constantly be doing your own research, which very few players want to do. The only items you can name off that are consistently profitable are ones that are time-gated (i.e. mithrillium, charged quartz) and ones that require a lot of account-bound materials or time input (i.e. legendary weapons). If you give players a specific item to craft that isn't in those categories, a few of them will craft it and the profit margin will disappear as a result. Then, as a content creator, you get flamed when that item no longer works the next day. It's the classic give a man a fish vs. teach a man to fish scenario. And when it comes to crafting to make gold, most players don't want to learn to fish.
And from a rich player's perspective, it's very odd, because the skills and processes you learn to make gold from crafting are what most rich players use to get rich, not the "market manipulation" that they seem to think those rich players use. So you'll literally be sharing the thought process that you used to get rich, and then the player you're talking to will ignore it, thinking that you did something far more complicated or nefarious to make your gold.
@@abree107 That's exactly my point. Anything that's not time gated is a gamble at best and a loss at worst, even with reduced mat costs. Crafting itself is broken, and that's why mats are so cheap. Most crafting professions are money sinks, not money makers.
Further, there are so many recipes that are just outright junk. I looked real hard at cooking, thinking that perhaps consumables would be able to retain value, but have yet to find a recipe worth investing in. Sure, it's easy to go on to gw2efficiency and find a recipe whose input to list price is profitable, but when you then go to the market data, the volumes indicate that your odds of selling that item are basically nothing.
So again, my argument is that if you make crafting profitable in the economy, more mats will be used and inflation will be offset.
pretty new, pretty casual player here aaand out of the suggestions I’ve read so far, I really like this suggestion, from the perspective of a very very non-rich player hahaha even though I still know very little.
I started working towards crafting ascended gear as I’d really like to craft my own gear for my own satisfaction but it seems that there’s a lot of checks to the crafting route and not as much balances. Gold sink vs gold generation. I never really crafted in games before so I was glad to enjoy it this time. This suggestion would I think encourage crafting more.
The second purpose of offering another transition to getting into harder content adds to it. As
I understand there are better ways to get ascended gear but it has been hard for me to find accepting groups of randoms (on NA, at least) who are willing to welcome someone new who would like to go in blind at least one or two times as I have fun through that challenge- rather than the newbie who’s read all the guides and knows everything, which is valid as well but its the freedom of choice. I know no one’s forcing me, but like Abree said, it feels forced, at least without the proper community, which can be hard to find as well. I think the high incentive to go into fractals, strikes and raids BECAUSE of the topic at hand with gold, has definitely contributed to the optimization of learning and clearing of these game modes, contributing to elitism sometimes. More players coming in, higher supply of mats, depreciation of their value, harder for them to earn gold, where do we turn to?, the ways they can earn raw gold or higher value loot. And of course, people wanna do it as efficiently as possible, no one wants their time wasted. So, definitely something to consider as it would widen the options imo. I also don’t think it would lessen the player pool if options are expanded; if anything, well-executed changes to implement such a transition with multiple purposes would probably increase player pool, and hopefully allow everyone to breathe a bit.
I know I rambled, might have said nonsense and am extremely biased but I think my experience so far as a new player in 2022 was apt to this video, and comment in particular.I would love to see this suggestion reach Anet.
How r u doing 10k damage..i do 500 on my thief with all exotic berserker gear... I need to learn them builds
That should just be a slightly out of date power soulbeast build from Snowcrows.
@@abree107 idk anything about builds yet, slowly catching up on your and other people's builds.. been grinding silver waste only for livin s4 XD. Now I finally got it after 150 hours..can finally start working on builds and gear.
@@Nuh been lvl 80 for a week but im just using a short bow on thief with everything focused on invisible and stealth XD
@@navdeepsingh3508 pfft that why you should get up and travel, there's more to Tyria then just Silverwaste my friend
@@Blazuchan hey i have a friend..i think we r friends.. in gw2 with same name as you XD.
I really dislike doing Meta events and fractals/strikes daily , But i also feel sort of forced to do it. Mainly because the amount of gold you earn from this is huge compared to just map exploration.. Something i love to do.
If you can efficiently map complete and package your gifts of exploration into gifts of Mastery, you can sell those for 600+g each. If you don't have an issue accessing spirit shards and karma, it is actually very high gold per hour to map complete.
@@abree107 Nice, Got 3 characters at 80-90% i'll go do those, Thanks!
Btw, i think Jade bot's Scavenger Protocol made item prices drop insane. But i can't complain. I'm only gaining more materials for free that i didn't plan to sell anyway xD
@@eddiel417 It's another source, but definitely not enough on its own.
I'd also argue that the late game gold sinks just don't exist. sure there is the TP but that one is voluntary. WP costs are negligible. Once you get enough of a bank roll, pretty much gold becomes meaningless
Yep, you don't NEED gold for much.
Since the "Confetti" infusion is so desirable according to TP price maybe ANet should make that a craft able item. Not that it should cost that much to craft it but that it should use up those Materials that are overstockd in the TP and it should be account bound.
I've had similar ideas in the past, like them changing 4 winds to a system where you get tokens from trading in mats, then can buy things with them, including skins and account bound infusions.
So far, sounds like the same issue of if everyone becomes a doctor, the price of healthcare might go down given the competition to provide service. If everyone chooses the farm styles providing the most reward, then the reward will go down (in this case because of reliance on selling materials to other players).
So long as players exploit the most lucrative rewards, there will be a decline in value. Unlike fractals raw gold by vendor selling junk, the trading post materials sales will slowly cycle around which is most farmed as the reward for them fluctuates. Without removing the trading post and making all sales vendor only sales, how can this be fought? People tend to chase the most rewarding paths, even if they dislike doing so.
Also, the idea of material sinks that become account bound are temporary solutions, because once a player has all of them, they begin to amass those pre-account bound items and sell those.
We need more sinks
I have a weird suggestion
Remove gathering nodes from the map, and whoever gets there first is theirs.
I'm not sure I understand what you're trying to say.
@@abree107 think they're saying nodes are 1 time then they go poof for everyone (no idea for how long but I can't imagine that working out to well)
@@BorderFreak Ah. Nodes are only a small portion of the sources materials come from, so unfortunately I doubt that would be very impactful. Gear drops are a much bigger source for raw materials.
The issue is people trying to buy under minimum
As a "swiper" i like the low prices on mats and items ✌️
This can also work to push gem prices down. Thankfully, it seems like they're giving it more attention now.
I dont think you view this in correct way. i would say price decrease is intentional and they do it in purpose to promote new content, replace old mats with new mats and outweight drop in players that farm old maps.
Unlike other mmo's, gw2 constantly introduces new materials to the pool while keeping old materials relevant ( e.g WoW on the other hand introduces new mats with each expansion, but old mats become obsolete at the same time). gw2 tries to keep all maps relevant, but they cant let old maps be the best farm options in game. and since we get more and more different materials in game, than in order to not reach a point where everything is crazy expensive (too high demand compared to supply on everything), old materials must become less usefull and replaced with new mats (which makes their price drop) and this is what they mostly do.
keep in mind its directly related to how much playerbase can farm ( hours per day) when EoD dropped suddenly players didnt get more free time in their hands to farm new mats. so in order to not have old mats increase in price (due to lower suppy) and new mats also be crazy expensive, old mats had to become less usefull and becasue of that their price dropped.
Good example would be Mystic Coin. it served its purpose for few years and became replaced with new materials from EoD. it still holds some value but is less important and more accessible for everyone which is good if you look at economy as whole. there are more examples like unbound magic, volatile magic. volatile magic is droping in worth so it might be time to introduce new currency ( along with gathering tools) to replace it.
So overall i think you dont understand how gw2 economy works as a whole and how its balanced by Anet and just see it from your perspective.
Anet actual problem is: mats hoarders/too wealthy players and excessive supply increase. in case of supply this becomes problem when supply gets so big that "bubble bursts" and prices would plummet but they succesfully fight it introducing mats sinks.
first problem is something they cant solve without inflation and that is impossible in their economy
ecto is one thing but you cant compair it with Mithril ore. Its a endgame raw material that is litterly everywhere (same with elder wood) and every single weapon or armor you scrap contians it pretty much. So mithril will NEVER EVER again be a high value material. Even if players start doing more and more legendary items. Its just to common as a farming resorce. Compair mithril to iron or plat then you see what the diff is and its all because of what maps people are running. And that iron is used in more forms than mithril. And prices are going to change like it does in the real world when new shit comes out that people wants instead of the old stuff. The only thing that pushes up old things in price is nostalgia and if there is an event of sorts that has simulare items then things can change. Otherwise you are only trying to sell to the very 1% of players that are either collecting everything or has an insane amount of gold/ sponsered accounts. That show off their shit on twitch or youtube so they drum up a little bit of hype around it for a short time.
If the next infusion they release requires 100 stacks of mithril ingots, then there will be demand that can push it up to previous prices (40-50c etc.). If they do that for a variety of oversupplied materials over a long period of development time, then the prices of those items will stabilize. The fact that you currently get far more mithril than you can use is precisely the problem.
@@abree107 ehh you are still talking about the 1% if even at that. And the game is not for the 1% of players its for the 99% because that is where the money is. And you should have to do more content if you want things not just doing wvw or raids or what ever. Because if you dont then these item are clearly not for you and a casuall player shouldnt have the same shit as a progressiv player that spends hours farming various areas. Even if it is 99% that pays for the game. You should be rewarded for going into raids. Something i never play but im fine with the fact that i cant get raid legendary gear then. And that is the way it should be.
@@denker032047146 Every single player in the game that has a level 80 character obtains mithril on a regular basis. It has nothing to do with "the 1%". I already covered the fact that this behavior is great for rich players, because their gold's buying power is increasing and they can just sit back and watch it happen. It's not good for players that are actively playing content, with the exception of fractals, due to how much raw gold those drop.
@@abree107 thats not what i ment at all. what i ment by this is that ecto is still "harder" to get than mithril. Same goes for plat and iron. The mats are not harder to get by themselfs since its just about farming nodes. But pretty much every player pushes to get to 80 and then they dont farm those maps anymore unless they are more or less forced back to them via WB trains or events. That it why no matter how much mithril an item will need its always goint to be a huge surplus of it. Not to mention that its just for cosmetics so its not life altering. And then you have all the diffrent mats for every other LS map and expansoin. Yeah its nice to run with Ascended and legend but its not really needed to play. Its more how good you are at the skills. So we still comes back to this that its a very small group of players that are hardcore farmers that feel they need all new stuff. So even if they did change so that you need 5 stacks of mith for something it will just be a boost on the market for a very short time then it will go back to be a surplus mat again.
@@denker032047146 That's why I advocate consistently integrating sinks into the design philosophy instead of just having rare items be lottery rolls that 99.99% of the playerbase will never see. 1-off sinks are obviously only going to make a dent.
As far as it not being life altering, you're absolutely right. I'll be the first person to admit that after 300g, gold becomes functionally useless. A lot of players have an endgame experience revolving around nonfunctional uses for gold though. Cosmetics and quality of life items are goals for a lot of people.
Asc feastlike enhancements that require ectos or crystalline dust
I have ideas how to fix this. Let's go.
- Mystic Forge recipes to change the coloring (from a small palette of class-related hues only) for your autoattack skill, PvE only, coding is already in the game
- Mystic Forge recipe to change color of Ghostly Infusion, the coding is already in the game
- Mystic Forge recipes to add some subtle simple trails/particle effects from BLC weapons onto certain under-used Mystic Forge weapons skins, since many of the Mystic Forge skins seem unpopular due to lack of trails/particles, the coding is already in the game
- Jade Bot workbench facility to create simple brief audio sequences from a variety of small pre-made soundbites, to create a custom 'sonic signature' for your Jade Bot, whether you are using a BLC one or not, the coding for Jade Bot skins to carry different sounds is already in the game
I could continue ...
I did have ideas for using orbs with 500 level jewelcrafting to make infusion recolor items (i.e. sapphire orbs + other mats = blue recolor for peerless infusion), since, as you pointed out, they've already got everything they need to do it fairly easily.
There's many avenues, we'll just have to wait and see what they do.
I would welcome even more extreme deflation, let me get all raw materials i need for my legendary for a few copper and let me pay the gold sinks with raw gold, have no issue with that.
So... eventually raid rewards will become more profitable than open world %) (Since it contains some raw gold). At least that problem will be fixed %)
I think fractal players make out the best in this situation. Raiders are still wildly underpaid and that's its own discussion.
Video is a year old, but I’ll comment anyways: It’s okay to do unoptimal content. In some ways, I think it’s *better* sometimes to do unoptimal content. I’m working on my crystalline heart for the Envoy 2 achievement currently. When I started it, I didn’t know you could buy amalgamated gemstones on the trade post. So I settled in, and found a good routine to hit 3-5 metas a day to get them. Could I buy the rest of what I need right now? Yeah. Was it more fun to dive into pieces of content I probably would never know as well as I do having done them so many times now? Also no. The journey is more valuable than the destination, especially in GW2
Aaaaand with SotO ecto price doubled xD
Well you think about it some players DONT want to sit on BLT just to make Gold. I want to make Gold PLAYING the game.
If someone sells something cheaper then Im happy. I dont want to farm for over 1 year to get a Legendary, not to mention Inventory Slots are 400 Blue Gems.
Seriously over priced when Ive seen pictures and videos where 400 Blue Gems only costed 44 Gold.
Someone wanting to make Gold on BLT with their selling of ingredients and such, great for them.
I always "buy" my ingredients from there if need be. I want cheap. They want to make Gold I want to Save Gold.
Think of the low level players that dont know much about the game, they want to make/save Gold like the Elite !. Just saying.
Thanks for the video !!..
I covered why this negatively affects the average players more than rich players. Trust me, the gold making community is enjoy solid profit margins and watching prices fall. This affects players that make their gold playing the game, with the exception of fractals, which drop raw gold and are getting better and better because of this behavior. Open-world players are the ones losing out here and they're the majority of the playerbase, whether people like it or not.
I will say that I've played since launch, and getting 44 gold for gems back then was harder than getting 120 gold for gems is now. Gem prices are based on supply and demand, just like anything else. The fact that prices are higher is just a result of there being more gold in the system than there used to be, and subsequently more players are willing to use that gold to buy gems. If you want those prices down, you'll have to convince more people to whale on the game so the gem supply is increased.
As far as not farming for over 1 year to get a legendary, I think it's possible for anyone to crank out a legendary weapon in much less time than players seem to think. It's covered in more detail in my legendary crafting video, so feel free to watch that if you want, but for the really committed players it's possible to crank out a generation 1 or 3 weapon in around 40 hours of play. And that's 40 hours of playing a video game, not sweatshop work like people seem to think. We're talking exploring maps and doing events or maybe a little bit of strikes/fractals. Playing the game that you (hopefully) already like. Obviously, it can take significantly longer if you make it, but I'd struggle to actively play and not be able to do it in under 80. Even at a couple hours of play a week that comes out at under a year and most people play much more than that. Anyways, if you'd like to know more about crafting legendaries more efficiently, I'd advise watching that video or seeking out the Overflow Trading Company Discord. A lot of people in the voice chat in that Discord craft legendaries constantly and will talk your ear off about how they do it faster.
@@abree107 Well that sounds sweet getting a Legendary in a few weeks possibly a month or so, but realistically I had to "buy" my Legendarys and I have actually made Vision and your right it did go alot faster than expected :O. Mostly because I only played the open world and not Mist/Raids/WvW/PvP or anything else.
That was a super bad mistake on my part.
But all on all you are correct when it comes to getting Gold now adays. No hard feelings and thanks for the Video !!
I have an account value in the 90th percentile. And I never hoard materials. All of my items are usually sunk into gold and then traded for gems. Or used for legendary crafting. For me the thing that kept me from playing the game at all was icebrood saga. Icebrood was awful. I had no desire to play the game that I used to really enjoy at all.
I wouldn't personally let 1 lackluster set of releases prevent me from enjoying everything else about a game, but that's just me.
Just play the game.
You gain a silver each side event. And add to that selling dropped items. And add to that bonuses from playing. There's literally no reason to complain about how the game is designed.
I think you missed the disclaimer and the background. This game is great and the system was designed very well. It just needs a bit of maintenance, like any other good system, to function at its highest potential.
....now lets be real... MAIN problem are multi acc users who bot every fking day and destroying prices. ...I've done so many times world map exploration and seen countless bots on almost every map in core Tyria....idk why anet is not doing anything about them....
Those are getting more attention as well. They don't affect a lot of material prices though. Specific tiers of dust, blood, leather, and venom are primarily what those affect.
In the long term the next expansion could bring housing so players would have to spend gold to buy houses and materials to craft furniture constantly for personal use and maybe for selling.
It would be cool to see a POH system added to GW2 that isn't just the home instance nodes and would definitely fit in with their "adding a big system with each expansion" trend. We will have to see if ArenaNet thinks it's worth the development time.
Or because there are too many scripts and plug-ins, especially some simple but boring content, the price of some items is obviously not proportional to the investment, but they are very cheap
get rid of all the 24/7 bots and you will see a change in the economy
They certainly don't help, but they also only affect specific subsets of items. There's items far removed from bot drops that are still undergoing this.
The difficulty of earning gold in GW2 is intentional, but its not for the reason people always claim it is. Its because you can buy gold with real money.
Earning gold will never get easier, only harder. Swipe now for that griffon, swipe again for that skyscale, swipe twice a week for 2 months to get that legendary.
Gem prices are tied to supply and demand. All other things constant, gem prices will follow the same trajectory as items, given a long enough timeline. The gem exchange doesn't materialize gold into the game, people on the other side need to buy buying gems with gold for the prices to stay the same. That won't happen if swiping is the only way to access gold, meaning that gem prices will drop with everything else and proportionately have the same value compared to materials.
@@abree107 Nobody said swiping was the only way, of course its not, its just the easiest and most convenient way.
Let the no-lifers go out and grind away 20 hours a day to get some gold to trade for gems, and then you swipe and sell them the gems and go buy the thing you want.
Its by design and its not gonna change no matter how much we want it to because its a reliable and constant revenue stream for them.
I am just seconds into the video but you said its a podcasty episode
for real I would love a 1h monthy podcast over the econemy and money stuff
Unfortunately, there's really not enough to talk about to fill that much time that often.
I did this as a sort of "break" from the guide videos, which take quite a bit longer to make than this video did, but I felt like this had enough substance to not leave a gap in my uploads. The response has been a lot more than I expected and people have been surprisingly civil, both here and on Reddit. I'm used to people choosing to ignore any discussion and jump into being hostile as soon as they figure out you're a rich player, so I've been pleasantly surprised by the comments. If there's something substantial enough to cover in the future, I'll definitely do another video like this.
@@abree107 ye i also thought there is not really much to talk about
The only suggestion i could come up with is also maybe meta talk, like discussing farming metas and builds and stuff
But i think other people also fill the class meta build bubble so there might not be auch a high interest like it is with an economy UA-camr
@@xxyxxyyyx I made this channel because I wasn't impressed with any of the guides I found and whenever people asked me questions, I struggled to find gold guides I was happy to link to them. Obviously some videos on this channel have a decent overlap with others, but I really do try to focus on things that I feel I can significantly improve on the existing video base for, or at least provide a unique perspective on. Whether I hit the mark or not is up for debate, but making videos that have only slight differences from existing youtubers is something I don't have much of an interest in doing. Once I feel like I've exhausted topics I want to make videos on, I'll probably make a couple meme videos and then stop posting.
Edit: I also don't enjoy a lot of what other people enjoy and I don't multiclass really. When it comes to PvE meta, I really just want ArenaNet to bring power meta back to fractals and leave me to enjoy my DH.
As someone who doesn't really like doing PvE content (mostly) and mainly plays WvW, I would really enjoy additional materials sinks to sell materials that I get from there. WvW has awful rewards vs play time and I find it really hard to make gold. One thing I really like about the game is trying different builds with different classes but it can cost too much to experiment. Especially if you are crafting certain armour stats. I'm trying to work on legendaries that will hopefully help out this in the long run but I hate WvW's reward system so far.
I can make more gold by idle farming in domain of Istan than I can from playing WvW. Imagine that. Not playing the game in PvE rewards more content than actually playing WvW.
I think the worst part is that loot barely increases with active play in WvW. And it's difficult to fix from a design perspective. Adding to reward tracks just incentivizes AFK participation farming. Adding to loot bags just incentivizes people to find a way to farm eachother. The only way I can think to add value without creating exploitable systems is to reward unique activity (i.e. have a bar that resets after x amount of time and fills up for every unique objective you take or player you kill, with 0 progress for killing the same player or capturing the same objective, then a large lump sum reward is granted once you've done enough variety of things in that time-frame). It would also have the benefit of encouraging players to move around and not camp at the same spot, which is stale and turns a lot of players off the gamemode.
@@abree107 I think they've already partly solved this with participation pips. You only get pips if you are at T3 participation or above. What if this was to be extended? Say T10 participation gives you (for example) 30 pips. However, the requirements to maintain T10 participation is to have gained some WvW xp every 1 minute. The tick for pips is 5 mins so if someone did reach T10 and decided to AFK, at most they would only get 1 tick of pips (say they went afk when there was 59 seconds left on the timer)
I'm hoping they'll update the rewards after they add alliances. Pips themselves are in a bad state. Especially if you are trying to go after legendary armour.
6 weeks to get 1st set of PvE Legendary Armour (10 weeks after) if you play 6ish hours per week
22 weeks to get just 1 set of WvW Legendary Armour if you're playing over 10 hours per week (though this can be reduced to around 8 hours if you are 10k rank in wvw I think(?))
@@stretchx The pip system is part the problem. You can play 1.5 minutes to maintain T6 participation, then AFK for 10 minutes before having to perform an activity again. That's great for people like me, that don't enjoy WvW, but not great for players that do.
@@abree107 yeah absolutely. Hopefully they'll fix it for the release of Alliances.
Ffxiv had the most amazing market economy i've played. This was the first thing that hit me about being 'done' with gear at ascended in Guild war. (Legendary can be compared to relic weapons in ffxiv cosmetic grind wise, not stat wise)
Every new major patch or expansion things rotate back & forth in market value like Perfect Yin/Yang such as materia cost & other important crafting mats. And new gear push's the ceiling up keeping everything in balance.
The fact that this game doesn't have gear scaling is both a blessing & curse it seems compared to over there. Hope i Love it as much.
Another comment..the new players will struggle even more..we have to Buy the living world.., I prefer in-game grinding, we have to catch up in terms of gear and stuff.. since we don't alrdy have good gear, we can't do the big league stuff like really high level fractals for gold ... So we r stuck with bad gold making methods until we can get high tier gear or know enough about complex gold making methods and the old players already have a lot of money sitting so they just keep getting rich....
I'm also a noob and these are just my opinions
Hmm.
1) you don't have to buy Lw
2) catching up in gear is actually pretty easy. Exotic gear will get you a long way actually and honestly asc or leg isn't even needed IMO if you don't feel like grinding for it.
And most exotic builds can be obtained for like 15g which is 30mins of farming (literally almost anything)
@@maxzett but i cannot play story if i don't buy LW . And i miss out on such cool maps.
@@navdeepsingh3508 you can always buy them later down the line
its really not hard to farm gold in gw2, but most players are lazy even if you showed or told them how to farm gold they will still uses gems as its easier. I believe the problem that has really hurt the market are ( Gen 3 Legendary ) they use half the mats that the last two sets used that and lets not to forget the legendary Armour why it's amazing and personal love it, it has also had a massive effect on the market, myself who has most gen 1 and 2 from playing i never had waste gold or time on getting weapons again. I personally think the biggest mistake they made is making legendarys sellable why I understand why they did it kills the point of them and makes them less special, like if I could just purchase legendary armour instead of doing months of raids and work for it I'm sure thoses players that did would be upset. Now I did like your idea of the account bound craft-able infusions as they could do many things with it like a infusion container crafting then a infusion creation craft then fusing both to make the infusion that area personally added to your account like legendary armoury and but they would need to add that type of things to all aspects of the game wvw raid pvp so on we will see tho id personally like to see an over hall to crafting and what can and how u craft in some ways to for instants being able to set exotic only or legendary instead of looking throw a list of a million things i no longer need anymore.
I feel like you skipped right over the obvious. The gambling type stinks aren't rewarding enough causing people to not gamble. Increase the chance of getting something good.
I believe I mentioned that people have figured out that they aren't. The whole concept of gambling systems relies on the chances of coming out ahead being small. While they have some play where they could increase drop rates, it will never actually be worth it, which will generally lead most players to not bother. While there's a disturbing amount of players with very real gambling mindsets, generally people are happier with a guaranteed reward for spending something.
good stuff
I still dont get what is the problem... so yes your materials will give you less gold, but craftable stuff is also going to be less expensive. The only issue i see is if you wanted the gold for gemstore items, because you will have to farm more/different for the same stuff... but i think thats actually good for anet, because it tells players hey you can spend lots of hours for this or just spend a few dolars, which i think is completely fair for both players and company.
Talking about the gold market alone there is no issue, players will get all the nice stuff like legendary and ascended easier which removes an entry barrier for newer players. There is still a lot of content that gives raw gold like strikes, world bosses, daily achievements, which is much more fun than doing 10hours of material farming in a single map (and waay better than the afk farmers). All i see is wins here, no need to do endless annoying AF farming, instead do fun content, no need to spend tons of gold in equipment you want, instead get it for a fair price/time playing.
I can suppose the people more aggraviated with this issue are those "trading gurus" that hoarded materials thinking they were so smart and they would live happily on gold from reselling, and now they realize they lost their gold hahahaha im sorry but i kinda love that. The game is not meant to be designed to have some few getting everything they want without playing and only earning profit from trades, so i think it is awesome to cut their income and tell them "hey you guys no more obsene amounts of gold for you while you are watching netflix" :D
Bottomline nothing to be fixed here
I don't know how much more I can reasonably elaborate. Drops largely obtained from open world have devalued more than the aggregate of all items has, meaning that most players, who spend the majority of their time in open world, actually need to spend more time to achieve things like ascended armor, legendary gear etc. It also affects things like griffon, commander tags, and other raw gold intensive objectives. A 20% reduction in expenses is not a net positive outcome in accessibility if you experience a 40% reduction in income. You may or may not care about open world players, but they do make up the majority of the active playerbase and open world is where most new players get hooked on the game.
The TLDR is that the majority of the playerbase loses out here. People playing fractals come out ahead. Strikes/Raid players are somewhere in between. And the people that actually gain the most from this are rich players. As I said, it's easy to just park in raw gold as a rich player and watch its buying power increase by the day. Your impression of rich players' situations is very much backwards. It used to take a lot of time and research to find items that produced consistent returns and didn't have too much competition. Now, as someone with a large quantity of gold, you can achieve high returns by simply doing nothing. The time to "get easy gold watching netflix" is now, not before. If you're finding someone that's upset because they lost their gold in item investments this past year, they had no clue what they were doing in the first place.
And allow me to reiterate one more time, just because I call this phenomenon a problem doesn't mean the current state of the game is a doomsday scenario. These are just the types of things that, if left unaddressed for a long period of time, cause downward spirals that can lead to an MMO dying out. I have faith in ArenaNet to make some progress long before then, but I still think it's an interesting topic that a lot of the general playerbase probably doesn't even think about.
@@abree107 first of all i appreciate you elaborating on my comment but i have to tell you on my first comment i am aware about your point of openworld material farming becoming less profitable and so gaining raw gold with it. But pal this is not bad if you think about it Anet is just shifting the scenario from "be a farming bot for hours then go buy what you want in tradepost" to "hey listen there is this thing called crafting you can do it too, is part of the game, go get some raw gold from other gamemodes, buy your cheap raw materials and craft your own stuff". Personally all i see is improvements.
Perhaps if you want to advocate for open world meta events (which i reckon is an important part of the game) you should be proposing an increase in raw gold reward on every meta event, so they keep being popular (like tequatl).
On the other topic you are right raw gold rich players will benefit from this decrease in materials cost, thats true, you know who else benefits from this: people buying raw gold with real money!! how can this not be good for the game? the better the company does, the better content they can keep giving us. You know who isnt benefiting: hoarders that used to manipulate and flip the trading post, literal farming bots that were not actually playing the game and just putting characters with macros parked in open world, commanders that did open world farming trains not caring about the influence they had on new players (you think new players liked it when the farming trains would pass by with all their skyscales leaving them behind to die not even caring about them, yeah super fun).
Expanding on the new player experience, isnt it great to tell the new players "hey man there is all of these options and different gamemodes where you can get gold, you dont have to spend hundreds of hours in drizzlewoods and dragonfall not even appreciating the map because youre too busy following a tag thats roleplays a speedclearer, forget about that, and expand into the other content get some gold from pvp, get some gold from metas like dragonstrom, tequatl, soo yong, etc, get gold from strikes, get gold from raids, get gold from fractals, get gold from dailies (make it valuable for us the money we invested developing those game modes), and after you play various types of content and you enjoy everything the game has to offer you can come and learn how to craft by yourself ascended and legendary (in fact maybe you want to try doing the quests for the precursors instead of just buying them, they are actually fun), and hey if you need materials dont worry bro they can be bought fairly cheap in tradepost, and if you need gold and you are in a hurry you can invest real money and get a lot of ingame value from it"
Dude this is so much more ideal than having a new player and telling him "you want to get gold: play only this map for hours everyday doing it same exact way each day" ......
cant believe someone is actually defending that SMH
Open world farming has never been the best way to get gold through gameplay. Since their inception, fractals have been better by a sizable margin. I think it's a little off base to think that all instanced content becomes competitive just because most popular open world farms have gotten worse. Fractals were already good and are the content seeing the most relative improvement in effective profit. Raids are still terrible for profit, unless you're full-clearing in a few hours, at which point they're still just "okay". Strikes are still mediocre for effective profit. There's no change in what you might call "tiers of gold-making content". Anybody who's ever told a new player to farm 1 map for hours on end to make gold doesn't know enough about gold-making to give advice and there's no shift in the game that's going to cause ignorant people to stop giving poor advice. Similarly, people that decide to dump the contents of their loot onto the TP, and buy something they want while they avoid learning crafting absolutely include players running instanced content. That behavior is in no way unique to open-world players. My buy orders for items produced by instance content fill just as fast as anything else. It's a nice thought to wish for more players to use tools like crafting and forging to their advantage, but there's simply some people that will never do it and they're in no particular subset of the playerbase.
I won't tell you that you're wrong about this also negatively impacting bots or AFK farmers, because you're 100% correct. I just don't think it's a reasonable justification to allow something that negatively impacts most players to continue just because it has an equally negative effect on botters and AFK farmers. That just lets those people bring everyone else down with them. I think you'd agree it'd be far better to simply deal with those people directly, adjust the ToS to have less grey areas, and police that stuff more diligently, but that's a different topic and I don't have anything particularly new or interesting to contribute to it.
As far as gems are concerned, their prices are determined by supply and demand. I think a lot of people either overlook or just don't understand the gem exchange. It doesn't magically spawn gold into the game. If in-game gold is less accessible to most players, then less gems will be purchased with in-game gold. If demand on gems decreases in the long-term, their prices will also decrease, meaning that players swiping for gems will receive less gold from their swipe. The decrease in price will likely be proportional to the decrease in value of most items, so the effective buying power of x amount of gems would likely remain the same the whole way down and basically render swiping unaffected by this phenomenon. The way they've set up their gem system is quite simple and elegant when you compare it to systems in other games that attempt to do the same thing. Nevertheless, it functions as a gold sink, not a gold faucet. Gem sales are mostly boosted whenever ArenaNet releases a desirable gemstone item. Beyond that, the best factor for ArenaNet to focus on to boost gem sales is the total active player population. The gold price of gems is already optimized by the system itself and the players using the system (through supply and demand), so ArenaNet is not incentivized to try and tip the scales one way or the other. I might make a video on the gem exchange in the future, because I think it's an interesting and somewhat misunderstood topic.
Overall, if you care about the gold-making experience of the average player, this is a phenomenon that negatively affects them. If you're mostly a fractal player, you'll be having a good time of it in a system headed this direction. If you focus on PvP/WvW/Raids/Strikes or a mix of all of the above, you probably won't be affected much one way or the other.
@@abree107 again i appreciate your time and your complete and wellspoken answers but you are not keeping a solid argument here.
Your whole issue here in this video is that openworld material farming is getting worse, and now in the last reply you are saying open world material farming has never been any good compared to the other options. So whats the point of your discomfort? Im telling you, the worse it gets the more players will look for other better options and is everybodys win. But you keep wanting to defend it, even though you know it is not the best option. Yes it affects a lot of people, just like balance patches do, but just in same way they are for the better for all of those people being affected, people will just gradually realize it and shift their efforts.
Now im a defender of open world because i think it is great, so what could be a good idea: increase the coin drops of bossess and dynamic events.
As i said before low costs on materials sends the idea to new player that they too can get legendary and ascended, which is a big incentive, if you are defending people who like to do open world then suggest increased coin.
About gems, youre mixing everything up, first you are implying that because material farming is worse, then gold to gems trade is going to decrease, thats a giant assumption and based only in your speculation, you dont have statistics of the players that do material farming and use that gold to trade for gems, you cant know if it is a significant percentage that will influence the ratio, furthermore as you said the big coin methods are not material farming, so all of the population that isnt doing material farming is suddenly going to stop buying gems? you cant assume that.
In fact data from gw2efficiency shows that since 2013 gem to gold ratio has increased constantly with a peak during pandemic when the player population was at its peak and returning to its tendency afterwards, so by fact you are wrong, gem to gold ratio has not decreased due to your "material farming issue" actually it could be much more correlated to incoming player population. If you compare both tendency curves (materials value vs gemtogold) you will easily see by inspection alone that the correlation is very small, if any. Since the correlation isnt significant we can mathematically and logically ingore that phenomenum and correctly say: a person who buys gold with real money will see more value from his purchase if he can buy more things like materials and legendaries with the gold he bought.
Summarizing all of my comments:
1. players wanting to get better coin will migrate to other methods wich is good because it incentivates playing those gamemodes that were an investment by anet, is also good because it reduces the idea on people that they need to run around a single map for hours to get gold, it is also good because new players will know about all this options instead of leaving out of boredom if they were to only do material farming
2. people that abused the trading post by buying big amounts of materials will not be able to keep manipulating it because there is huge supplies continuously being added
3. people may learn that crafting is cheaper than buying and may shift to it (giving value and sense to the developers that did it)
4. people will see that if they diversified their gold income they will have their ascended and legendary stuff faster because it is cheaper
5. people buying gems and converting to gold will see it is worth because they can do more things with the gold they bought, like buy more crafting materials, or directly the legendaries
To conclude, as i said before everybody wins
I understand you want to defend your video because if proven wrong you lose the time and editing you did in it, but i believe you are a serious and ethical person, so please dont spread wrong ideas on people, much less putting titles like BIGGEST PROBLEM thats just a low move clickbait thing, and is WRONG factually
@electricraikou6093 You stated that players wanting gold previously would have to farm specific maps to do so. My comment about open-world farms never being the best gold per hour was simply in response to that. They haven't ever been the best, they're simply the most accessible and most popular. Players choose to do them instead of other things.
I'm not interested in rehashing the same stuff I have already said. If you disagree with me, then go ahead and disagree with me. There's no "proving" any of it right or wrong until future events take place. There's also no "proving" what makes the best game or game experience. The fact of the matter is that it's subjective. The identity of the biggest problem with the economy is also subjective. My opinions are formed based on my own experiences through years of gold-making pretty much every possible way in this game. Your experiences may be different. Feel free to disagree with me.
If you're looking for "assumptions" to "prove wrong", I'd recommend starting with your assumption that it's ever been profitable for someone to manipulate material prices on the trading post. It costs gold to put up and maintain buy/sell walls to manipulate prices and the only case where someone was able to manipulate a material's price in any meaningful way was only possible through millions of gold in duplicated items. Your simply referencing "material price manipulation" and asserting that it's ever been a regular occurrence undermines the integrity of some of your market-related opinions/thoughts.
Regardless, I'm willing to agree to disagree on the rest of what we discussed, so that will be the end of this exchange from my side. If you're enjoying the game still and feeling like you are better off now, that's all you need!
Sadly all your information doesn't account for Anets lack of drive to ban botters... there are people sitting with tons of alts in raids in key locations around the maps farming all the mats needed for legendaries... totems / claws / blood etc... they have stacks of necros and stacks of engineers spamming all day and night, flooding the market so they can turn around and sell that gold online to the people buying gold to buy legendaries...killing anything for natural players and destroying the market. bannning those accounts would limit the mats on the market allowing prices to level out and become more natural.
AFK farmers do not make very much per hour and their drops are limited to specific items. They're a very very tiny piece of an aggregate issue. AFK farming is much more of a general integrity/impression issue than an economic one. To be plain, it just isn't worth accounting for in the context of this video. I'm very much against AFK farming, but for different reasons than this.
@@abree107 there are hundreds of bots spamming abilities across all the maps, collecting all those items flooding the market making they are making tons of resources and then with the map completion bots can pump out gen 1 and 3 legendaries…
@william robb Once again, the gold per hour at all of the commonly AFK farmed locations is very small, especially when multiple accounts compete for tags. At heavily AFK-farmed spots, AFKers make under 2 gold per hour; even less with competition. I've gone around and actively farmed in some of the same areas, achieving 4-5x higher kill rates than the AFK accounts and still only received 3 or so gold per hour in most spots (including jade bot bags, which most AFK accounts would not be receiving). That means most AFK accounts produce under 1 gold per hour. And their drops are limited to what the enemies drop. Some of the most popular spots drop Tier 3-4 dust, Tier 3-4 blood, Tier 3 leather, and Tier 5-6 venom sacs.
Once again, I'm absolutely against AFK farming and think that diminished rewards from camping spawns should be implemented or that repeat offenders should be actioned more. However, for me to blame the behavior of the entire games economy on a minority portion of a small handful of items in the game that are overproduced by AFK farmers would simply be incorrect.
@@abree107 nah man they have engineers soaking guns and turrets all in the same party, it’s not competitive it’s exponential to what you’re doing. I’m not talking the random necro here and there I’m talking 20 boys in a raid stacked all getting loot from every kill. Easily garnering 20g/hr from each zone…. I logged in 6 necros and tested it and was impresssed, now triple your productivity rate with engineering onslaught of mobs with macros blasting and they just keep spawning faster… afk farming has gotten worse in the past year
@william robb Being in a party doesn't preclude the requirement of tagging a mob with a certain amount of damage to get its drop; you still need to hit it yourself. Open-world spawns are also static; they don't scale like every mobs do. That statement is just factually incorrect.
I'm under no illusions of the populations. There's hundreds of AFK farmers on both NA and EU servers. But when 1 active farmer produces >10x what 1 AFK farmer does, it rounds off. When the pool of obtainable drops from open world mob spawns is relatively limited, so is the impact of those accounts on the overall economy. Additional T5-6 venom sac drops pushes the prices of those items down and slightly affects related items. It doesn't affect the other 99.9% of items in the game. It's like blaming the world's economic problems on 1 wealthy company with shady business practices. Sure, they might be negatively contributing to a situation, but their individual contribution is a very tiny factor in a sea of other problems. Condemn them all you want, but to blame everything on them is just not correct.
New DLC should rework this: Homeinstance mastery=rework homeinstance and put it to your own house with garden etc... Materials from 2nd and 3rd DLC, rework with low drop rate, to increase buyout... I hate 250+ low priced items in my inventory and you can't sell it, couze noone buying :D And make thief great again in pve, ty :) Profession with focus and your shadow and make combos with that clone would be nice :)
I think a lot of people have suggested that in the past. It is a possibility, considering that there's an expansion coming up. It's hard to imagine what other new systems can be added, considering that we already have gliding and other mobility masteries, mounts, and now boats/jade bots. Some of the EoD stuff was a surprising reach, so I don't think it's too out there for proper POH systems to be added.
Guildwars 2 hat kein Problem eher sind es die Egos die nie höhren auf comander.
Lol
the beautiful thing about the gw2 economy is that it corrects itself.
if metas become a shit way to make gold, ppl will start farming something else that does better. and then they tank that contents gold earning potential cuz too many ppl ovcerdo it, then metas become a thing again.
i really fucking hate spamming metas. it's just running with 50 pp round and round following a catmander who knows da wae. it just the recipe for burnout.
material prices might also be tanked by afk farmers maybe even bots.
We will have to see where it goes from here. Even good systems require maintenance from time to time and it seems like ArenaNet has started to realize that and make some tweaks.
The fact that processed materials are worth less than raw materials is terrible. GW2 has the worst economy in any MMO I've ever played.
I wouldn't agree with that example. Most refined materials are worth more than their raw counterparts. Some even have a wide enough margin where it's profitable to buy raw materials, refine them, and then sell the product, despite the 15% tax. The economy is in a weird spot at the moment, but over the long haul GW2 has done much better at maintaining stability than WoW, RS3, and a lot of eastern MMOs. The good news is the current trajectory seems to have been recognized internally by ArenaNet and we are seeing them start to look at addressing it.
There's no problem with GW2 economy it's affordable and that's all that matters.
Nothing is more affordable if your gold income is decreasing at the same or faster pace than the items you want to purchase.
@@abree107 but I have plenty of gold
@@mikejohnson9194 Well that sounds fine for you, but doesn't help everyone else.
@@abree107 I don't know why because I didn't buy any gold I just sold my extra gear and you can sell the stuff they give you free for just logging in.
Can you tell me how to get mystic clovers
Chest of loyalty from daily logins, icebrood saga strikes will give you quite a few (up to 35 I think?) from the return to living world achievements if you haven't gotten those yet, wvw and pvp reward tracks give some (non repeatable reward tracks give 7-11 each), drizzlewood coast gives a very small amount, and you can roll for them as much as you want in the Mystic Forge and it's not too expensive nowadays.
@@abree107 how do I know which are the non repeatable ones 😩
@@bruddah_ They have a symbol on them if they're repeatable. The wiki also has a list of them.
@@abree107 thank you so much. Ily