@@davidmurray5926why do you attack him for making a joke? He wasn‘t mean or anything. Also even if he cooses to get confirmation through a video on a decission he already mate, that is his choice and would also be ok. Every person is different!
I sold my Q2 Reporter and my Q2 Monochrom and bought an M11-P and M11M and loads of Voigtlander lenses. Absolutely no regrets. I find I am as quick focusing with the M11 and feel much more connected and in the moment. I do miss the macro on the Q.
I have , over the past year, gone completely to Leica. I started with the Q2, then a M240 and now a D-Lux 8. They all are unique in their own way and like any tool, have their uses but the important thing is that I enjoy the experience of shooting with them. I could take good images with other cameras because there are lots of good one around, even a phone is useful at times, but these cameras make me smile when I use them.
The Q3 was my introduction to Leica and most definitely a gateway "drug" where I then purchased the M11M 35mm Summicron APO. They both have their place and I love shooting both. Be warned, if you're thinking of a Leica, you will not stop at just one.
I have been using the M system for over 10 years now, mostly with small vintage pre-asph lenses; almost made the switch to the Q343 when it came out, but instead decided to go with the M11-D and pair it with my 35mm 7 elements, which is both smaller, lighter and (hopefully) more enjoyable to use than the Q. But the Q343 is indeed a very attractive proposition.
Literally last night was looking up vids for this specific topic. I truly believe the Q is the better camera for me. I own two Q2M’s and that monochrome sensor is fun stuff. I may sell one and grab a regular Q2. The M lacking autofocus and costing so much more just doesn’t make much sense to me.
This. It is all about what is best for you, or in my case, what is best for me. The Q2 is the sweet spot (for me). Ease of use when I need it and a wonderful lens that I can manually focus when I am in the mood... all in a very portable package. I have my huge Nikon rigs for the days I have a specific need (600mm zoom, or Z9 burst rates), but when I have the time to stop and smell the roses, the Q2 is my little buddy. But it won't be a gateway for me - I will use the Nikon gear when the Q2 doesn't fit the use case.
I am fortunate to own the Q, SL, and M systems. While the M system is manually operated, I’ve discovered that when paired with my M28 Summicron and using zone focusing, it can actually be faster than the Q system. Thank you for your excellent work-I truly enjoy everything you share!
I previously owned both the M10 and the Q at the same time, but I found myself using the M10 99% of the time, even without owning any Leica M lenses back then. Now, I’m considering upgrading to the M11, though I occasionally find myself tempted by the Q3 for its simplicity and autofocus.
My power DUO at the moment is an M11 + M6 (2022), I love being able to swap my 35mm Summilux and 50mm f1.2 Noctilux between the two. The ability two shot real black and white film and get different film grain structure and rendering from those two lenses is the best, there is no way that a Q3 could replicate that because you're stuck at "28mm". For the most part I can go back and forth between the M6 and M11and have a similar experience and not get caught up with "features".
Love your reviews. You are correct, as far as the Leica experience, NOTHING beats the M system. I have Q's and SL's and whenever I'm done shooting them I think, man, I need to get back to shooting my M. The deliberate nature of shooting an M lends itself to quality, not quantity. Thanks for the great content!
Great comparison between playing an instrument and using Leicas. I love my Leicas and my guitars because both are sensitive to real-time input and great vehicles for expression.
Hey! One of my best friends let me borrow his M11 for a week and I rented the Q3 43 for a week. In short, I agree with every word in this video. Cheers!
Love the analogy with music and Ableton. Coming from 30+ y in the music industry, now photo - videographer and personal coach, I keep repeating that making music and making pictures are the same in so many ways and the industry is pretty much the same too. In the good and the bad.
Your comparison of the M11 and the Q3 was quite fair and refreshingly straightforward without too much tech talk. My love affair with Leica began ten years ago with the original Q and has grown with each new release. I'm now shooting with the Q3-43, which is perfect for me. I once aspired to the pinnacle of the Leica experience and have tried using my neighbor's M11, but I cannot get used to the rangefinder system.
Nice perspective. I set the Q2 up to be as much like an M experience as possible…rarely use the back screen except to review shots…this process has made me a better creator through being more intentional…and it’s unlikely I’ll ever be able to afford an M system. Not even a Q3 43 until they’ve been in the used market for quite a while.
I definitely prefer the M system over the Q series. I find shooting my M10-R more therapeutic. Dialing in and experiencing the shot. Even the small stuff like the shutter feels better for me. I’ll pick up my Q3 43 over my M10-R for close/tight places or for “bad weather days”. But my bad habits from mirrorless cameras (spray and pray) reappears when I use the Q3 43 😂
Awesome video Benj! Totally agree! I’m a Q3 43 user and have to say the real Leica experience is for me personally the M System. Specially when i shoot on the OG M3 - I just love the build quality of that 50s camera 🙃
I manual focus my Q2M (because admittedly the autofocus sucks) so I feel fully immersed in the experience. One of the selling points for me is that my camera is weather sealed. I shot in Oslo for days in snow and rain and that’s something you can’t do with an M
I had an M11-P and returned it, because the sensor was delivering images all having a pink colour cast, which I wasn’t able to remove. Snow was pink,blues to deep and harsh. Just for the records, I am a super experienced LrC and PS and C1 and Affinity Photo user/nerd, I tried everything, nothing helped. The M10 I once had - unfortunately sold it - didn’t have that flaw. A part of the M experience is to get almost perfect results straight out of camera and not to spend a lot of time on the computer. Of course I recovered the shadow details and corrected the white balance slightly if needed, but with the M10 I never had to mess with the colours. - The interesting part is the Q3 (which I have) and the SL3 (which I could test) have obviously the same sensor, but that pink cast isn’t existing. So, either the M11 and M11-P have a different sensors or there is a severe bug in the demosaicing algorithm or a problem with the Bayer filter. Currently I am happy with my M11 Monochrom. Attention, it’s like photography black and white film, you need at least a yellow, orange and red filter and avoid blown highlights. It’s identical to BW film, super easy to get blown highlights, a colour negative film using the C-41 developer was/is almost impossible to get overexposed highlights, an ISO400 color negative film accidentally shot like an ISO100 film was not lost, easy to correct doing the positive prints and also in digital post processing.
Liking and commenting for the algo's sake. Also, as someone who's recently gone through this very question, I will say that I'm coming up on a year of owning an M10R and a TT 50mm1.4 and have zero regrets going this route. I'm actually a little relieved that I didn't go the Q route. Q would be nice one day, very much want one some day; but the tactile, mindful, intentional shooting experience of an M is definitely a thing. Composition, choosing focal spots, focusing, and then "sniping" shots, all of that are what drew me to Leica in the first place.
Really nice video. I am lucky enough to own the Q2 and the SL2 with quite a few lenses. I have never tested the M system but am thrilled that I have weather sealing in my cameras.
Good to hear your thoughts as both a professional photographer and an enthusiast. Resonates with me as I like shooting with both of them in different contexts. Makes sense (if that makes sense)(sorry couldn’t resist😅)
As a Sony and now Leica photographer, here's my analogy: Sony mirrorless are the Acura NSX with hybrid powertrain and dual clutch automatic transmission putting up consistently fast track times. The M11 is a 911 with manual transmission--not the fastest around the track and if you miss shifts your times will be painfully slow, but you're connected and ever-present for the experience. The Q3 is where I struggle to complete the analogy--maybe someone can help?
A Q3 would be some other sports car with an automatic or dual clutch transmission w/o the hybrid assist that the NSX provides. So let's say a Porsche Cayman with a PDK. It'll shift way faster than a 911 w/manual and be a more comfortable daily driver but you'll also be curious and lusting over a 911.
I think the 24megapixel sensor is the sweet spot for the M-series. Harder to stable handhold the high megapixel cameras - especially since they don't have IBIS.
Kept waiting for the Electric Guitar vs. Acoustic analogy 🙂They are two very different image making tools. One uses antique "technology", the other modern...like PDAF, OIS and IP52 weather sealing.
That`s a good and fair comparison. I`ve used Leica for 40 years (Canon/Sony /Sigma too) .Currently using M4 /246/SL2 /CL (digital).I`ve been tempted by the Q cameras but the Leica AF performance puts me off. Its just not up to the mark when things start moving and that stops me from investing in another one of their Af models.
Great post 👏👏. I totally got your Ableton ref btw - and I agree 🎶. Re viewfinder experience, I have to say my ultimate is the analogue SLR - nothing beats looking through an optical light path with a telephoto attached eg on safari with a leopard in the frame. I really miss that. looking at EVF screens is just not the same. Too many screens in our lives these days !
"how snobby it was" :))) Benj, it's a fun video; honestly, I think you need both (the Q3/Q3 43 and the M). Otherwise, you'll forever lust for the one you don't have. I've been shooting the Q3 43 since it came out, and the face-detect autofocus is terrible when you're in a crowd situation but works fine when you have a single subject. In a street environment, I switch it to zone focusing, and it's a perfect street photography camera with F5.6/F8, 1/1000 shutter speed, and auto iso. Next year, I hope to be able to upgrade from M10P to M11 and have the same or similar sensor and the two different camera experiences.
I unfortunately can't afford an M series Leica. But, your videos let me dream. And I totally get what your saying about the experience.....even though I've never had it. I just finished my 38th heart surgery and know my time is limited.(perhaps I should try for the Guinnes Book of World Records.lol). But, for some reason, it makes me feel better, even hopeful that such high quality products are still made in our world. Keep making your great videos. And I'll keep watching.
Love the M-mount lenses but have to be honest - I use them on my Nikon Zf far more than any Leica body these days. That unit just speaks to me in ways the Leica never can.
Was a Nikon guy. D3, 14-24 2.8, 24-70 2.8 and 80-200 2.8. 85 1.4. Fantastic for kids, sport, landscape. I was not taking picture anymore, as I would not want to carry 14 kilos... bought a fuji X100, loved the one lens fixed experience, but hated the fact that every time I touched it because of all the switches, I would change settings and spend hours getting it back to mine. That and the viewfinder that was small. Then heard about and bought a Leica Q. Lived with it for 2-3 years and just upgraded to Q3. Will one day have a M, I am sure of that !
I wouldn't mind an EVF-M or named Q with interchangeable lens mount (preferably M). Such camera would be great to have in parallel with a regular digital or film-based Leica M.
one of the things i like is to set the Q3 to 35mm crop mode and use the framelines like 35mm frame in a M viewfinder... gets a bit closer to the M experience.... that said, I love my M11 to bits, but the Q3 makes sense for travel and as a dad cam.
Would love to try an M as soon as I can swing it, but for now loving my Q3, despite the wacky af when there are multiple subjects. It really does feel like it's losing its mind in those moments, but even out of focus most of the Q3's images look pretty amazing to me :) otherwise I've been loving the camera so much that i take it everywhere and feel inspired to shoot even the most mundane things. I'm even contemplating adding the 43 just to switch between focal lengths but keep the same experience😊
The training wheels comment was just over the top for me. 😂 I have both Q3's, and am totally loving the experience of carrying both. Common controls, light weight, small size, easy to setup, no sensor cleaning needed, etc. I came from Nikon (D80/D800/D750Z9/Zf) and the Zf manual focus revolutionized my photography and drove me to the Q3's along with colleagues and workshop attendees and leaders using and raving about them. Along with me normally using the MF. I also went to it for the Leica name and quality and reducing my kit size and weight. I have kept my Zf with some of my Z/S lenses, but my EDC is the two Q3's. I have never wanted a rangefinder camera. Ever. And don't expect to in the future. I had 35mm film back in the day and have embraced the digital world and don't feel the same about see the scenes. As long as I'm "seeing" through the lens, as the M's do not, I am comfortable with that. Thanks for the discussion and I look forward to your Q3 detailed review, even though I don't expect it to be that positive. 😀
Hopefully the experience of using it will be more satisfying than the experience of paying for it then having to wait to get it fixed! I’ve always used Leica film cameras and they have similar challenges, rangefinders go out of true and shutters aren’t the best design for longevity - getting them fixed is also a chore. The unique characteristics I think are to do with the lenses and the lack of vibration when the old mechanical shutters trigger. The negs always seem just a little bit sharper and the acutance more pronounced…….hopefully some will progress back to film and enjoy the simple pleasures of peeling a good contrasty set of negs out of the dev reel. If genuine rangefinder experience is required, IIIFs can be had relatively cheaply and their ltm lenses easily converted to M……. Afterwards…
Solid review. I feel like they're sort of apples and oranges. I know you shoot Sony at your events as well, but the thought of using an M11 at an event seems a bit counter-productive. It's super light and can produce incredible images, but is it really the right tool for the job? I've long dreamed of owning a digital M for personal work, but i can never see myself shooting one at a fast paced event where autofocus, zoom lenses, and TTL bounce flash really shine. But part of that is that i shot 4 solid years of weddings in the beginning and then moved to mostly corporate/conferences etc. There is far less "art" in my shooting now, so an M11 would simply be a bit of a drag.
I have an M7, and am mostly a film photographer (I have a Hasselblad 501c/m, a Nikon FM2, and an F3/T). I've owned other camera (AE-1, etc) for over 25 years and care for them carefully and process my own film, b&w, c-41, e-6, snd ecn2. I've owned other consumer digital cameras before, but sprung on my first professional digital system two years ago on an SL2-S. It just got sent in for its THIRD repair to the shutter. I now no longer trust the camera not to catastrophically fail on an expensive trip (I do mostly landscape travel photography). As a result, I have extreme anxiety on trusting Leica's build quality. I failure once is understandable, but THREE catastrophic failures? Am I a fluke, did I get a lemon? And if so, how could I trust this won't happen with a Q? Curious on other's experiences
Thank you for the review. I would have been interested to hear a bit about the Q lens vs the M equivalent and options. One thing that has always held me back from the Q is that I have other focal length options with the M. I usually prefer 35mm and I’m not sure the crop on the Q is as good as using a native 35mm lens on an M.
The M is for who who want to advance in photograph and also for pro photographer . The Q is for everyone who like simple shot , point and shot , friendly used automatic and good iq photo , good compact for travel .
Hi Benj ...snob or not ... I think ist's wrong to compare the Leica M11 manual focus with the Leica Q3 auto focus. If you use the manual focusing on the Q3 is't much like the M11 ... after my opinion. Of course it's diffrent to look through a viewfinder and an EVF ...BUT still a great way to compose your pictures. Atb Tom
Thanks for the video. This kinda answers my questions these days. I traded my M10 for Q3 months ago but I miss the rangefinder experience desperately; meanwhile I m so keen to trade my Q3 for M11 giving they use the same sensor. But I m concerned if I am able to fix the magenta Shift easily during post-processing
Thanks for the review very interesting to get your insights. I have a Q3 and Q3-43 and have put the screw dot on both, looks fine. I have had an M 10 and M11, but could not take to them so moved on and got an SL-2S and now replaced with the SL3. This is great for the M lenses I have and of course the SL lenses. I recently got an M246 Monocrom (the Leitz limited edition) just as an investment and somewhere to hang the M lenses and to my great surprise I absolutely love shooting with it. Once the M bug gets you it’s hard to resist and I think I’m now won over……..will I sell the Q’s? Probably not I love using them, but they have stayed it their bag and I mostly now take the M246 out for street shots, keep the Q’s for short travel trips etc.
The best camera, is that one that's with you ~ Chase Jarvis. You can quote that properly. :) Its forever my tagline since into forums. And really true. One doesn't need a fancy pants camera, to create good compositions. Have seen into 40 years too many so called Leica Snobs and Elitists, which just created rubbish bar none, silly pictures of the shoes, cats, etc...one can create with any 20 bucks used cheap digicam from the 2000s, honestly. No social insecurities, though. I have a hand of fullframe gear, from CaNikon & Sony, not Leica. And also APS-C/DX, being happy with it. Photography is for everyone - and every budget.
Slightly off topic, I’m thinking about getting a Leica Q2M as a companion for a Canon R5 because I really love B&W. Following your same thought process would you prefer an M10 or M10 Mono vs Q2M?
Rarely touch my Q after acquiring the M11. For car folks, the M is a like a Porsche 911 while the Q system would be a Cayenne. Loved the Q but there's an undenying magic to the M experience.
What of the legion of complaints against the M11 series cameras regarding freezing, and glitches? I had really bad AF on my Q3, but after the most recent FWU it's vastly better. But as I lusted for an M11m, I have seen way too many negative comments about M11's across the board. Would I be better off with an M10m?
oh dear i am going to trade in my M6 sumo 28 and 75mm for i was looking at a Q2 with 60k is that ok i own a sony x100 but its just too small for my aging eyes this was really helpful and i would have gone for the M11 but you say they are more expensive more food for thought cheers
I hv q343 and yes the auto focus sucks compared to other brand but it comes in handy when you need it (better than nothing), on top of that this 43mm feels just right. Is there any 43mm for M? If i own M11 i might feel cheated, however i just own it for 2 months and its my first Leica cheers. I have a feeling Q is killing M, surely in the future we will see M with auto focus in order to make Q owner turn to M and vice versa again and again , classis sales strategy to make everyone own both system 😂😂😂
Unfortunately, the biggest issue with manual, rangefinder, focusing on a 60 megapixel sensor is sharpness. It’s just too much resolution for this kind of arcane setup. The hit rate is substantially lower, no matter how good you are. The M10 P was the last camera that supported such a concept. And before you’ll jump in saying you have no issues with sharpness on a handheld M11 let me assure you that a good autofocus system on 60 megapixel sensor will illustrate that you do indeed have an issue.
It's very much a luxury item. You don't see them used for professional commercial work for a reason. It's like a Rolex it tells time but you don't get one for that reason.
I feel like the title of the video is a little of a click bait. I get the Leica experience comparison but this is like comparing an electric guitar vs acoustic guitar. They’re different uses. I think the a is more in comparison to the SL. The M probably stand on their own for professional photographers. To the other 90% of the population the Q is just fine. I appreciate all the Leica content.
@ I think Q3 vs M11 is fine. But when I see videos that say something like “which camera is best?” then it’s all subjective what “best” is. And as a viewer we have to be increasingly aware of the creator’s perspective as a professional photographer. I get that type of title is what probably works for the algorithm. It’s a trend I’ve noticed on YT recently. I think it’s just being mindful that as an expert your opinion is possibly influencing your audience’s purchasing decisions. That’s all I’m trying to say. I’ve found most of your videos helpful so I appreciate you being open to feedback. Thanks!
@ yeah I got that in the message of your video. I remember when I first started out as a photographer I was looking for answers when acquiring gear and if the answer wasn’t clear then I was left even more confused what to buy lol. 😂
@ClassyLB haha for sure. This one is a bit more apples vs oranges or even Fuji vs Honeycrisp or something. I dunno, I’m in an Apple State and I don’t know apples ;)
So many Leica advertorials at the moment. Sorry if that sounds grumpy as I like and follow your channel but I’ve been hugely disappointed in both M and Q purchases and so few UA-cam videos ever really highlight the negatives. IMO they’re just over-hyped and under-deliver. They’re nice objects to look at though.
Wonderful video and yes, you’re definitely an artistic snob-haha! I think I need the training wheels with the (future?) Q3 as a travel camera. For the owners: how prone is the screen to damage if carried bare, slung over the shoulder against the body? Cameras like this deserve imho to be carried bare, not tucked away deep inside a bag.
After 1 month with the Q3 43 I can say.... I am so underwhelmed. AF is not accurate (particularly in continuous mode), image stabilisation is very poor and the general experience so far has been not good. I am seriously considering there's something wrong with my camera. I shoot alongside a Sony A1 and a GFX system and the image quality of the Q3 43 is not even close to those 2.
Thanks for that, but I think you dropped the ball. Your M11 will accept Leica lenses going back to at least 1953. I really know almost nothing about the Q3 43. Perhaps everyone else does? Buy Leica's 90mm f/1.5 Summilux. You'll be broke, but you won't need to crop.
I just traded my Q3 in for an M11 + 35 Lux a few weeks ago, so you better say M11 by the time I get to the end of this video! 🤣
@@ab185 🤣🤣🤣
@@davidmurray5926 it's a joke. Stop taking yourself so seriously.
@@davidmurray5926why do you attack him for making a joke? He wasn‘t mean or anything.
Also even if he cooses to get confirmation through a video on a decission he already mate, that is his choice and would also be ok.
Every person is different!
@@Walaby50 And in other news?
For David Murray, who hurts u bro? Chill
As a former M6 owner, I've always wanted to return to Leica. The Q3 took care of that and it keeps me from wanting more "lenses" !!
I sold my Q2 Reporter and my Q2 Monochrom and bought an M11-P and M11M and loads of Voigtlander lenses. Absolutely no regrets. I find I am as quick focusing with the M11 and feel much more connected and in the moment. I do miss the macro on the Q.
@@davidbrighten2572 which is your favorite voigtlander lent?
Congrats on the two beautiful M’s!
I have , over the past year, gone completely to Leica. I started with the Q2, then a M240 and now a D-Lux 8. They all are unique in their own way and like any tool, have their uses but the important thing is that I enjoy the experience of shooting with them. I could take good images with other cameras because there are lots of good one around, even a phone is useful at times, but these cameras make me smile when I use them.
What were you using before ?
the D-Lux 8 is the weak link here. iPhones can match that camera these days.
The Q3 was my introduction to Leica and most definitely a gateway "drug" where I then purchased the M11M 35mm Summicron APO. They both have their place and I love shooting both. Be warned, if you're thinking of a Leica, you will not stop at just one.
I have been using the M system for over 10 years now, mostly with small vintage pre-asph lenses; almost made the switch to the Q343 when it came out, but instead decided to go with the M11-D and pair it with my 35mm 7 elements, which is both smaller, lighter and (hopefully) more enjoyable to use than the Q. But the Q343 is indeed a very attractive proposition.
Literally last night was looking up vids for this specific topic. I truly believe the Q is the better camera for me. I own two Q2M’s and that monochrome sensor is fun stuff. I may sell one and grab a regular Q2. The M lacking autofocus and costing so much more just doesn’t make much sense to me.
This. It is all about what is best for you, or in my case, what is best for me. The Q2 is the sweet spot (for me). Ease of use when I need it and a wonderful lens that I can manually focus when I am in the mood... all in a very portable package. I have my huge Nikon rigs for the days I have a specific need (600mm zoom, or Z9 burst rates), but when I have the time to stop and smell the roses, the Q2 is my little buddy. But it won't be a gateway for me - I will use the Nikon gear when the Q2 doesn't fit the use case.
As a musician, the analogy you said was perfect!
I am fortunate to own the Q, SL, and M systems. While the M system is manually operated, I’ve discovered that when paired with my M28 Summicron and using zone focusing, it can actually be faster than the Q system.
Thank you for your excellent work-I truly enjoy everything you share!
Ive used Leica M's , mainly with 50mm Summilux lens for years, I love them and recently enjoying the Q343 immensely.
Love this comparison! I've had the thought that the ultimate Q experience for me is if it had a rangefinder.
10:30 It’s similar to the experience of riding a bike or a motorcycle vs driving a car. You’re not separated from your environment.
I previously owned both the M10 and the Q at the same time, but I found myself using the M10 99% of the time, even without owning any Leica M lenses back then. Now, I’m considering upgrading to the M11, though I occasionally find myself tempted by the Q3 for its simplicity and autofocus.
My power DUO at the moment is an M11 + M6 (2022), I love being able to swap my 35mm Summilux and 50mm f1.2 Noctilux between the two. The ability two shot real black and white film and get different film grain structure and rendering from those two lenses is the best, there is no way that a Q3 could replicate that because you're stuck at "28mm". For the most part I can go back and forth between the M6 and M11and have a similar experience and not get caught up with "features".
Love your reviews. You are correct, as far as the Leica experience, NOTHING beats the M system. I have Q's and SL's and whenever I'm done shooting them I think, man, I need to get back to shooting my M. The deliberate nature of shooting an M lends itself to quality, not quantity. Thanks for the great content!
Likening the rangefinder experience to playing an instrument REALLY resonated with me… brilliant analogy 💯💯💯
Great comparison between playing an instrument and using Leicas. I love my Leicas and my guitars because both are sensitive to real-time input and great vehicles for expression.
Hey! One of my best friends let me borrow his M11 for a week and I rented the Q3 43 for a week. In short, I agree with every word in this video. Cheers!
Love the analogy with music and Ableton. Coming from 30+ y in the music industry, now photo - videographer and personal coach, I keep repeating that making music and making pictures are the same in so many ways and the industry is pretty much the same too. In the good and the bad.
Your comparison of the M11 and the Q3 was quite fair and refreshingly straightforward without too much tech talk. My love affair with Leica began ten years ago with the original Q and has grown with each new release. I'm now shooting with the Q3-43, which is perfect for me. I once aspired to the pinnacle of the Leica experience and have tried using my neighbor's M11, but I cannot get used to the rangefinder system.
Nice perspective. I set the Q2 up to be as much like an M experience as possible…rarely use the back screen except to review shots…this process has made me a better creator through being more intentional…and it’s unlikely I’ll ever be able to afford an M system. Not even a Q3 43 until they’ve been in the used market for quite a while.
I definitely prefer the M system over the Q series. I find shooting my M10-R more therapeutic. Dialing in and experiencing the shot. Even the small stuff like the shutter feels better for me.
I’ll pick up my Q3 43 over my M10-R for close/tight places or for “bad weather days”. But my bad habits from mirrorless cameras (spray and pray) reappears when I use the Q3 43 😂
Awesome video Benj! Totally agree! I’m a Q3 43 user and have to say the real Leica experience is for me personally the M System. Specially when i shoot on the OG M3 - I just love the build quality of that 50s camera 🙃
I would add to this that with the Leica M you also get into the lenes and the 70 year history of the Leica M mount, while Q is fixed lens.
I manual focus my Q2M (because admittedly the autofocus sucks) so I feel fully immersed in the experience. One of the selling points for me is that my camera is weather sealed. I shot in Oslo for days in snow and rain and that’s something you can’t do with an M
I had an M11-P and returned it, because the sensor was delivering images all having a pink colour cast, which I wasn’t able to remove. Snow was pink,blues to deep and harsh. Just for the records, I am a super experienced LrC and PS and C1 and Affinity Photo user/nerd, I tried everything, nothing helped. The M10 I once had - unfortunately sold it - didn’t have that flaw. A part of the M experience is to get almost perfect results straight out of camera and not to spend a lot of time on the computer. Of course I recovered the shadow details and corrected the white balance slightly if needed, but with the M10 I never had to mess with the colours. - The interesting part is the Q3 (which I have) and the SL3 (which I could test) have obviously the same sensor, but that pink cast isn’t existing. So, either the M11 and M11-P have a different sensors or there is a severe bug in the demosaicing algorithm or a problem with the Bayer filter. Currently I am happy with my M11 Monochrom. Attention, it’s like photography black and white film, you need at least a yellow, orange and red filter and avoid blown highlights. It’s identical to BW film, super easy to get blown highlights, a colour negative film using the C-41 developer was/is almost impossible to get overexposed highlights, an ISO400 color negative film accidentally shot like an ISO100 film was not lost, easy to correct doing the positive prints and also in digital post processing.
PS: now I wait for a M12-P with IBIS 😉
Liking and commenting for the algo's sake.
Also, as someone who's recently gone through this very question, I will say that I'm coming up on a year of owning an M10R and a TT 50mm1.4 and have zero regrets going this route.
I'm actually a little relieved that I didn't go the Q route.
Q would be nice one day, very much want one some day; but the tactile, mindful, intentional shooting experience of an M is definitely a thing. Composition, choosing focal spots, focusing, and then "sniping" shots, all of that are what drew me to Leica in the first place.
Appreciate it!
Great breakdown as usual, Benj. From my limited use of both platforms I’d say that it is a fair analysis.
Really nice video. I am lucky enough to own the Q2 and the SL2 with quite a few lenses. I have never tested the M system but am thrilled that I have weather sealing in my cameras.
Great video.! I completely agree,I have both m11 w/35 cron and Q3. I feel with the M I am not taking a photo but making a photo. Thank you
This was very helpful! Thanks!
I’d love an M11 vs SL3 comparison in this same vein.
Good to hear your thoughts as both a professional photographer and an enthusiast. Resonates with me as I like shooting with both of them in different contexts. Makes sense (if that makes sense)(sorry couldn’t resist😅)
As a Sony and now Leica photographer, here's my analogy: Sony mirrorless are the Acura NSX with hybrid powertrain and dual clutch automatic transmission putting up consistently fast track times. The M11 is a 911 with manual transmission--not the fastest around the track and if you miss shifts your times will be painfully slow, but you're connected and ever-present for the experience. The Q3 is where I struggle to complete the analogy--maybe someone can help?
Probably a macan gts
A Q3 would be some other sports car with an automatic or dual clutch transmission w/o the hybrid assist that the NSX provides. So let's say a Porsche Cayman with a PDK. It'll shift way faster than a 911 w/manual and be a more comfortable daily driver but you'll also be curious and lusting over a 911.
I have used the same analogy (only with the Sony playing the part of a Tesla)
M11 is more or less Taycan. M6 is the true 911.
Why did this make so much sense to me 😂
I think the 24megapixel sensor is the sweet spot for the M-series. Harder to stable handhold the high megapixel cameras - especially since they don't have IBIS.
Kept waiting for the Electric Guitar vs. Acoustic analogy 🙂They are two very different image making tools. One uses antique "technology", the other modern...like PDAF, OIS and IP52 weather sealing.
That`s a good and fair comparison. I`ve used Leica for 40 years (Canon/Sony /Sigma too) .Currently using M4 /246/SL2 /CL (digital).I`ve been tempted by the Q cameras but the Leica AF performance puts me off. Its just not up to the mark when things start moving and that stops me from investing in another one of their Af models.
Great post 👏👏. I totally got your Ableton ref btw - and I agree 🎶. Re viewfinder experience, I have to say my ultimate is the analogue SLR - nothing beats looking through an optical light path with a telephoto attached eg on safari with a leopard in the frame. I really miss that. looking at EVF screens is just not the same. Too many screens in our lives these days !
Totally agree with that.
More Q3 videos pls, need to fill the time before I end up buying one haha
"how snobby it was" :))) Benj, it's a fun video; honestly, I think you need both (the Q3/Q3 43 and the M). Otherwise, you'll forever lust for the one you don't have. I've been shooting the Q3 43 since it came out, and the face-detect autofocus is terrible when you're in a crowd situation but works fine when you have a single subject. In a street environment, I switch it to zone focusing, and it's a perfect street photography camera with F5.6/F8, 1/1000 shutter speed, and auto iso. Next year, I hope to be able to upgrade from M10P to M11 and have the same or similar sensor and the two different camera experiences.
Love the Q3
I unfortunately can't afford an M series Leica. But, your videos let me dream.
And I totally get what your saying about the experience.....even though I've never had it. I just finished my 38th heart surgery and know my time is limited.(perhaps I should try for the Guinnes Book of World Records.lol). But, for some reason, it makes me feel better, even hopeful that such high quality products are still made in our world.
Keep making your great videos. And I'll keep watching.
Love the M-mount lenses but have to be honest - I use them on my Nikon Zf far more than any Leica body these days. That unit just speaks to me in ways the Leica never can.
Was a Nikon guy. D3, 14-24 2.8, 24-70 2.8 and 80-200 2.8. 85 1.4. Fantastic for kids, sport, landscape. I was not taking picture anymore, as I would not want to carry 14 kilos... bought a fuji X100, loved the one lens fixed experience, but hated the fact that every time I touched it because of all the switches, I would change settings and spend hours getting it back to mine. That and the viewfinder that was small. Then heard about and bought a Leica Q. Lived with it for 2-3 years and just upgraded to Q3. Will one day have a M, I am sure of that !
I wouldn't mind an EVF-M or named Q with interchangeable lens mount (preferably M). Such camera would be great to have in parallel with a regular digital or film-based Leica M.
one of the things i like is to set the Q3 to 35mm crop mode and use the framelines like 35mm frame in a M viewfinder... gets a bit closer to the M experience.... that said, I love my M11 to bits, but the Q3 makes sense for travel and as a dad cam.
also - for travel - Q3 for wide/28mm and M11 with 50 summilux for reach - superb 2 camera combo.
Would love to try an M as soon as I can swing it, but for now loving my Q3, despite the wacky af when there are multiple subjects. It really does feel like it's losing its mind in those moments, but even out of focus most of the Q3's images look pretty amazing to me :) otherwise I've been loving the camera so much that i take it everywhere and feel inspired to shoot even the most mundane things. I'm even contemplating adding the 43 just to switch between focal lengths but keep the same experience😊
The training wheels comment was just over the top for me. 😂 I have both Q3's, and am totally loving the experience of carrying both. Common controls, light weight, small size, easy to setup, no sensor cleaning needed, etc. I came from Nikon (D80/D800/D750Z9/Zf) and the Zf manual focus revolutionized my photography and drove me to the Q3's along with colleagues and workshop attendees and leaders using and raving about them. Along with me normally using the MF. I also went to it for the Leica name and quality and reducing my kit size and weight. I have kept my Zf with some of my Z/S lenses, but my EDC is the two Q3's. I have never wanted a rangefinder camera. Ever. And don't expect to in the future. I had 35mm film back in the day and have embraced the digital world and don't feel the same about see the scenes. As long as I'm "seeing" through the lens, as the M's do not, I am comfortable with that. Thanks for the discussion and I look forward to your Q3 detailed review, even though I don't expect it to be that positive. 😀
I’m really surprised that no one had commented on that until now hahaha
Hopefully the experience of using it will be more satisfying than the experience of paying for it then having to wait to get it fixed! I’ve always used Leica film cameras and they have similar challenges, rangefinders go out of true and shutters aren’t the best design for longevity - getting them fixed is also a chore. The unique characteristics I think are to do with the lenses and the lack of vibration when the old mechanical shutters trigger. The negs always seem just a little bit sharper and the acutance more pronounced…….hopefully some will progress back to film and enjoy the simple pleasures of peeling a good contrasty set of negs out of the dev reel. If genuine rangefinder experience is required, IIIFs can be had relatively cheaply and their ltm lenses easily converted to M……. Afterwards…
Solid review. I feel like they're sort of apples and oranges.
I know you shoot Sony at your events as well, but the thought of using an M11 at an event seems a bit counter-productive. It's super light and can produce incredible images, but is it really the right tool for the job?
I've long dreamed of owning a digital M for personal work, but i can never see myself shooting one at a fast paced event where autofocus, zoom lenses, and TTL bounce flash really shine. But part of that is that i shot 4 solid years of weddings in the beginning and then moved to mostly corporate/conferences etc. There is far less "art" in my shooting now, so an M11 would simply be a bit of a drag.
I have an M7, and am mostly a film photographer (I have a Hasselblad 501c/m, a Nikon FM2, and an F3/T). I've owned other camera (AE-1, etc) for over 25 years and care for them carefully and process my own film, b&w, c-41, e-6, snd ecn2.
I've owned other consumer digital cameras before, but sprung on my first professional digital system two years ago on an SL2-S.
It just got sent in for its THIRD repair to the shutter. I now no longer trust the camera not to catastrophically fail on an expensive trip (I do mostly landscape travel photography).
As a result, I have extreme anxiety on trusting Leica's build quality.
I failure once is understandable, but THREE catastrophic failures?
Am I a fluke, did I get a lemon? And if so, how could I trust this won't happen with a Q? Curious on other's experiences
Thank you for the review. I would have been interested to hear a bit about the Q lens vs the M equivalent and options. One thing that has always held me back from the Q is that I have other focal length options with the M. I usually prefer 35mm and I’m not sure the crop on the Q is as good as using a native 35mm lens on an M.
I went to Q3 from M10, just more practical and easier for me to bring whenever I travel😅
My dream camera is the M11D!
Had to return mine because of so many weird issues.
The M is for who who want to advance in photograph and also for pro photographer . The Q is for everyone who like simple shot , point and shot , friendly used automatic and good iq photo , good compact for travel .
Hi Benj ...snob or not ... I think ist's wrong to compare the Leica M11 manual focus with the Leica Q3 auto focus. If you use the manual focusing on the Q3 is't much like the M11 ... after my opinion. Of course it's diffrent to look through a viewfinder and an EVF ...BUT still a great way to compose your pictures. Atb Tom
So well said, Benj. Brav-oh. Five Stars.
When Leica closes for good I’m convinced that the very last camera made will be an M - love Red Dot in London 😎❤️
Thanks for the video. This kinda answers my questions these days. I traded my M10 for Q3 months ago but I miss the rangefinder experience desperately; meanwhile I m so keen to trade my Q3 for M11 giving they use the same sensor. But I m concerned if I am able to fix the magenta Shift easily during post-processing
Thanks for the review very interesting to get your insights. I have a Q3 and Q3-43 and have put the screw dot on both, looks fine. I have had an M 10 and M11, but could not take to them so moved on and got an SL-2S and now replaced with the SL3. This is great for the M lenses I have and of course the SL lenses. I recently got an M246 Monocrom (the Leitz limited edition) just as an investment and somewhere to hang the M lenses and to my great surprise I absolutely love shooting with it. Once the M bug gets you it’s hard to resist and I think I’m now won over……..will I sell the Q’s? Probably not I love using them, but they have stayed it their bag and I mostly now take the M246 out for street shots, keep the Q’s for short travel trips etc.
Please do one on the Hasselblad X2D vs the 907X/CFV100C!
Posting it on Monday :)
Interesting that you put a grip on the Q3 but not the M11.
It’s more just what was on the cameras at the time of filming. I have a grip for each.
I have both of these cameras and the Sony A7C ii. I spent far too much on photography last year.
Neither of those, a "QM" with Leica M mount and EVF without OVF will be vry nice !
When I want reliability and weather proofing I reach for my Q2. The I want creativity and inspiration, I grab my M10-D.
The best camera is what's with you, which is probably some Leica branded smartphone cameras tbh
The best camera, is that one that's with you ~ Chase Jarvis. You can quote that properly. :) Its forever my tagline since into forums. And really true. One doesn't need a fancy pants camera, to create good compositions. Have seen into 40 years too many so called Leica Snobs and Elitists, which just created rubbish bar none, silly pictures of the shoes, cats, etc...one can create with any 20 bucks used cheap digicam from the 2000s, honestly. No social insecurities, though. I have a hand of fullframe gear, from CaNikon & Sony, not Leica. And also APS-C/DX, being happy with it. Photography is for everyone - and every budget.
@ thx for the source. I vaguely remember hearing that from some UA-camr but didn’t realize that’s a famous quote.
5:43 finally the mystery is solved😂 I’ve heard about that so much, now it makes sense
Honestly, the real answer is to have both. Two tools for different scenarios. Just have to sell the kidneys to make it happen.
Does it freeze?And if it does , how much time to get it repaired?
Slightly off topic, I’m thinking about getting a Leica Q2M as a companion for a Canon R5 because I really love B&W. Following your same thought process would you prefer an M10 or M10 Mono vs Q2M?
I really loved the Q2M when I used one. If you really only want B&W and can commit to that, get a mono
@@benjhaisch I guess an alternative to a Q2M as a companion camera for my Canon is buying a film camera and popping in a roll of Tri-X.
Thoughts?
@ fwiw I’ve never regretted shooting film
@@benjhaisch Which direction would you go?
It’s so hard to know all of the intricacies of your situation, but all are good options
Rarely touch my Q after acquiring the M11. For car folks, the M is a like a Porsche 911 while the Q system would be a Cayenne. Loved the Q but there's an undenying magic to the M experience.
Always I will pick M over any camera ❤ M is different world .
Love a Rangefinder.. Love my MP.. Love my Leicas...
This all makes sense
What of the legion of complaints against the M11 series cameras regarding freezing, and glitches? I had really bad AF on my Q3, but after the most recent FWU it's vastly better. But as I lusted for an M11m, I have seen way too many negative comments about M11's across the board. Would I be better off with an M10m?
I’ve had the M11 freeze up on me once in a year. Zero issues otherwise ¯\_(ツ)_/¯
Ben I’m considering selling my beloved M11 for the Q343 for one reason. High Speed sync. I can’t shoot HSS with the M11 using Godox. What’s the fix ?
Not the same but consider the SL3… you have the EVF and can use M glass…. Not sure about the sync speed though.
Don’t get the Leica USA guys point on close up 26ish but infinity 28mm... If there is anyone with the required skills, pls help out to understand.
I think the vertical might be out on your M11??
M over Q for the ability to change lenses. Not every image is either 28mm or 43mm. Simple cropping isn't the answer.
Best camera is of course the one you don’t have. Gas rule #2
Haha of course
Hello, can you tell me where to get one of those shooting dots? Thanks
Link is in the description geni.us/leicadot
Do you find that color fidelity is a little better on the Q3 if you underexpose by 1/3 of a stop or so?
Generally yes, but it’s probably more of a preference than anyway.
Yeah, the experience is on M...but if you're shooting just 28mm, you can stick to Q3
oh dear i am going to trade in my M6 sumo 28 and 75mm for i was looking at a Q2 with 60k is that ok i own a sony x100 but its just too small for my aging eyes this was really helpful and i would have gone for the M11 but you say they are more expensive more food for thought cheers
I hv q343 and yes the auto focus sucks compared to other brand but it comes in handy when you need it (better than nothing), on top of that this 43mm feels just right. Is there any 43mm for M? If i own M11 i might feel cheated, however i just own it for 2 months and its my first Leica cheers.
I have a feeling Q is killing M, surely in the future we will see M with auto focus in order to make Q owner turn to M and vice versa again and again , classis sales strategy to make everyone own both system 😂😂😂
Got both around the same time, quickly got rid of the Q3. Not for me, at all.
Unfortunately, the biggest issue with manual, rangefinder, focusing on a 60 megapixel sensor is sharpness. It’s just too much resolution for this kind of arcane setup. The hit rate is substantially lower, no matter how good you are. The M10 P was the last camera that supported such a concept. And before you’ll jump in saying you have no issues with sharpness on a handheld M11 let me assure you that a good autofocus system on 60 megapixel sensor will illustrate that you do indeed have an issue.
It's very much a luxury item. You don't see them used for professional commercial work for a reason. It's like a Rolex it tells time but you don't get one for that reason.
The a was fun, but the m is more of purest form of photography in my opinion. The q just didn’t have that magic for me that the m has.
I feel like the title of the video is a little of a click bait. I get the Leica experience comparison but this is like comparing an electric guitar vs acoustic guitar. They’re different uses. I think the a is more in comparison to the SL. The M probably stand on their own for professional photographers. To the other 90% of the population the Q is just fine. I appreciate all the Leica content.
Curious what a better title would be?
@ I think Q3 vs M11 is fine. But when I see videos that say something like “which camera is best?” then it’s all subjective what “best” is. And as a viewer we have to be increasingly aware of the creator’s perspective as a professional photographer. I get that type of title is what probably works for the algorithm. It’s a trend I’ve noticed on YT recently. I think it’s just being mindful that as an expert your opinion is possibly influencing your audience’s purchasing decisions. That’s all I’m trying to say. I’ve found most of your videos helpful so I appreciate you being open to feedback. Thanks!
@ appreciate it, the irony is that I try to leave it up to the viewer, neither is “best” it just depends on your wants/needs.
@ yeah I got that in the message of your video. I remember when I first started out as a photographer I was looking for answers when acquiring gear and if the answer wasn’t clear then I was left even more confused what to buy lol. 😂
@ClassyLB haha for sure. This one is a bit more apples vs oranges or even Fuji vs Honeycrisp or something. I dunno, I’m in an Apple State and I don’t know apples ;)
Its like a 911 Porsche.. they both drive amazing but if you drive a manual then you get the whole experience
So many Leica advertorials at the moment.
Sorry if that sounds grumpy as I like and follow your channel but I’ve been hugely disappointed in both M and Q purchases and so few UA-cam videos ever really highlight the negatives. IMO they’re just over-hyped and under-deliver. They’re nice objects to look at though.
Just depends on what you’re looking for, but I’ve been making these same videos for the last 5 years or so just have expanded a bit since then too :)
@@benjhaisch Oh no, your Leica content is great!
I'd love to know what you think of the Q43, specifically IQ difference of the 28.
Sony @ cameras are like EDM and Leica M is like a normal instrument like a grand piano or guitar. 🤔
If you could only have one camera . . . would it ever be the M11??
Wonderful video and yes, you’re definitely an artistic snob-haha! I think I need the training wheels with the (future?) Q3 as a travel camera. For the owners: how prone is the screen to damage if carried bare, slung over the shoulder against the body? Cameras like this deserve imho to be carried bare, not tucked away deep inside a bag.
Q3 is better because of the auto focus , my five cents.
Dark under exposure result
one of the seven musicians here lol
After 1 month with the Q3 43 I can say.... I am so underwhelmed. AF is not accurate (particularly in continuous mode), image stabilisation is very poor and the general experience so far has been not good. I am seriously considering there's something wrong with my camera. I shoot alongside a Sony A1 and a GFX system and the image quality of the Q3 43 is not even close to those 2.
M9.
The sony magic
Thanks for that, but I think you dropped the ball. Your M11 will accept Leica lenses going back to at least 1953. I really know almost nothing about the Q3 43. Perhaps everyone else does? Buy Leica's 90mm f/1.5 Summilux. You'll be broke, but you won't need to crop.