Inside Information on the Scientology Powerstruggle
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- Опубліковано 5 жов 2024
- Mark Fisher and Janis Gillham Grady tell the inside story of the powerstruggle between Pat Broeker and David Miscavige and how Miscavige took control of Scientology after the death of L. Ron Hubbard. Was Miscavige supposed to be the leader of Scientology? Was it supposed to be someone else?
Hear the story of the many maneuvers Miscavige took over several years prior to Hubbard's death and then how he took out of power anyone who could have challenged him for the leadership role of Scientology.
This information is from 2 people who were actually there at the time. Mark Fisher worked directly for Miscavige and was in charge of his office. Janis Gillham Grady knew Broeker since his time on the Flagship Apollo and was friends with his wife Annie Broeker. Both Mark and Janis were there and saw what really happened.
We hope you find this interview informative.
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You two are absolute treasures. You have so much vital information. The more people we get talking from the 1980's who saw firsthand how Miscavige took over, who know the upper OT's don't exist, the better chance we have of destroying this cult.
Thanks very much for watching and the nice comment!
I agree 🥰
So the mission of taking care of dying Hubbard is over, now Pat and Annie have two choices: return and run Scientology or stay and work with horses. I think horses is the better option.
Belatedly greetings to you both from Hong Kong!
Thank you! 😃
Fascinating, fascinating! Living through this time period as an SO service org staff member, we would pick up rumors, but there were so many holes in the "shore stories" and so many things just did not make sense. You'd try to make sense out of all, but it was so strange. I wanted to believe that all the people "uplines" were living at some idyllic Mt. Olympus and that everything was high ARC without any intrigue. But with all the filters that were put on information that came down to us and the lies on top of lies that resulted in so many contradictions, one had to conclude that there was chaos at the top. The post-LRH-death management was all glossy and slick uniforms and continued assertions that we were expanding at some mad rate, but it turned out that it wasn't that just the Emperor who had no clothes, but neither did any of his darling executives.
I've kept myself away from all the various books that have been written about this time period and so much of what you relate here is new to me. I am sad to say that I am not surprised at any of it. What betrayals, and from the very top! Sad, sad, sad.
I’m bookmarking this one. The next time anyone asks how DM came to power, I’m pointing them right here! Thanks for the info, Mahk! Lol
Fantastic!
Great slideshow. Nice to see the faces that go with the story.
This was great! Thank you so much. Patty Moher
Thank you for all, Best greetings Jan
Same to you!
You guys are a wealth of knowledge!
Xoxo
Thanks so much!
Can’t imagine that hard ass Norman Starkey would wither in the background to Miscavige and yet in public would praise the greatness of Miscavige.
It was something to behold for sure. Brown noser for sure.
Thank you two for everything!
Great channel you have
Thanks for watching!
Thank you Mark for reminding of this video. It was great to see it again.
I really would love to see Jessee Prince on your show and Pat Brooker if he is still alive. There is so little we know about about LRH’s last years and what really happened to him.
And I am looking forward to the time others of Miscavige ‘s team will come out. Its been all too long that new top execs SO members came out.
And sadly we know some already died.
🙏🧡
It's been 40 years since I last saw you. 1984 working on the Master Stereo Preamp in R.A.V.
Wow! MSP 1! I remember that preamp well. Where did you end up?
@@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGrady I am living and working in Los Angeles. Electronic security. Walked away from the church about 9 years ago.
This is what I'm talking 'bout. Thanks again for this - definitely worth a re-watch and maybe one more time. 🙂So interesting and so many twists and turns. And, never be without your pups! I do not miss your squeaky chair.🙂
Awesome, thank you!
I wonder just how many people are PTS to David Miscavige.
Your granddaughter is adorable
Yes, Janis! You've got "altered importances" reading as an outpoint on whatever list that was! Should that little charmer interrupt you again in one of these shows, please drop everything else and tell Mark to shut up for a few minutes and introduce us please. We've got time to pause the "war stories" for a few minutes and breath some fresh air!
I really enjoyed watching this again. So much information. Your channel is definitely my favorite!
Wow, thank you!
Hi 👋 from NY
Wonderful episode 👏.
I still think it’s possible the ‘Loyal Officers’ issue may have been true.
How could this issue be legit? There is no proof, and the one who wrote is dead.
Is hollywood so cowardly they wont make a movie about this
@@markpb4767 I’m with you on that. I believe a true movie on LRH should be made. I know The Master was an indirect portrayal of him but a movie on his life- portraying in tandem, LRHs fictional life vs the reality.
Can I really come over for meatballs if I'm ever in Las Vegas? LOL
I like this music the best.
Even with the thorough explanation by Mark, it is impossible for me, a never-in, to follow either the structure or the neverending organisational moves described here. I guess it is a result of the Byzantine way the CoS was run, presumably on purpose, to confuse and befuddle outsiders.
Good point. Much of Scientology was set up to be confusing for people on the outside.
@@Robutube1 Yep. Only meant to be understood by staff.
1:15:40 I suspect the reason DM wanted to fight, instead of settle, was to create a sense of urgency in the ranks of the IAS. If the GI was higher than the legal fees, you making money honey. 😆
Thanks for this. Curious, you both were there. I assume you knew this was happening. Locking ip people etc... if so how did you justify this and remain.
I didn't know at the time some of these things were going on. But when I did see some of it for myself it made me seriously question what was going on, resulting in me classified as "Disaffected" and sent to the Rehabilitaion Project Force for "re education". The full scope of what was going on I learned later.
BIG POINT: Pat Broeker hopefully will come forward at some point. Is anyone who was close to Pat, who is trying to reach out to him? I hope so.
Vaughn Young, deceased, intimated he'd had one contact with Pat, Vaughn intimated. Possibly just a phone call from Pat to Vaughn back in the 1990s.
I'd like to hear more about the first time Miscavige, and some of the ASI staff went up to Creston, right after LRH died. That would be the small group that went up that very first time after LRH died. Didn't Terri go up, like Norman, maybe Greg Wilhere, and Vaughn Young I think went up, Cooley the lawyer, and didn't Vicki Aznaran go up, that first small group who went up, BEFORE the 20 people got posted up at Creston? I remember Georgiana Lane, then ASI, she chatted once I overheard when I worked at ASI, how a bunch of ASI staff all went up to "clean" up the place, LOL. Meaning cleaning stations were pretty bad, I mean with only Annie and Sarge to clean up at Creston, it must have been pretty dire cleaning stations wise.
Someone line Terri, I hope gives her two cents, since she knows the whole ASI angle to history, leading up to LRH's death, and then that whole swing of moving the top people in ASI over to RTC when Miscavige moved himself from ASI to full bore RTC running of things. Or, however Terri sees it, I think she has the best overview that is still missing from being told.
Anyways, everyone wants Pat to speak up, no matter what he says, of course.
Also, on the "Loyal Officers" I mean didn't even Hana Eltringham Whitfield say that even way back just after the OT 3 first came out, she speaks on one TV show about LRH asking her if she was "one of the Loyal Officers" implying thus she was way way back, in LRH's history on the Apollo, LRH was tossing out this idea that some people would be actually from that point on the track, past lives, who were Loyal Officers who put Xenu in prison, etc.
Anyways, the whole Hubbard saga of the Loyal Officers, kind of fits I think LRH's space opera mentality, and I can see how Pat wasn't necessarily on thin ice, but rather he might have been in sync with LRH's thinking, on this "Loyal Officers" kick, in that final "LRH" (composed by Pat) writing.
It's all BS nuts to me today, but I do wish Pat does speak up, and calls you Janis!
I still don’t really understand why Kerry was removed in Summer of 82. I was the PAC SO Programs Chief at the time- being on the ground scene on a daily basis for 2 years then. You mentioned the false reporting to LRH, I assume it was on International Stats. Any way I never figured it out.
Yes, there's probably 100 episodes that could be drawn out of this one episode that would be helpful for those of us at mid-management levels and the service orgs in order to fully clear all the various "group engrams" from this time period. So many lies were told and shore stories to keep us in the dark and continue to be willing to work.
@@OneCharmedLife good point. We all need to remind ourselves this was 40-44 years ago.
@@mreppen1 Yes, those 100 episodes aren't going to happen. In Scientology or not, most of us have got at least a couple dark and dreary episodes in our lives that we could wish were cleared up, but likely won't be. Ack and move on.
@@mreppen1 Just one more aspect to this. I think that there may have been more lies told per minute in this era than any other time period. And they were hardly harmless. And the tension that those lies brought about is a good part of the reason that 82-83 had us all at the cliff and then over it and the organization has been failing and falling ever since. It's a long and slow fall, and it would be a hard fall except for it being cushioned by loads of cash and the sacrifice of a few thousand (now, perhaps, a few hundred) over-zealous staff members. If the organization is ever to recover I think that the truth about these times will need to be told.
@@OneCharmedLife I get it. Actually unlike some others I felt Kerry was a destructive manager, he certainly was constantly guilty of stat pushing. A lot of Sea Org Management including yes LRH had no clue how to run Scientology Organizations. The one person at FOLO WUS who had an excellent talent in Management was the former Co Holly Lovely /Carlson. She never yelled at the Exec Directors to get stats up etc. 82 and 83 was a bad time period. I should have left then.
Annie Broeker (Tidman) was a sweetheart.
I believe DM is paying pat to stay quiet.
1:38:17 Norman Starkey died in 2019
for sure pat broeker and lrh were tweaking hard on meds for that 6 years.. no wonder he wanted to talk all night..
Pat we know you're listening. Come out, come out, wherever you are. All you'll find is love and forgiveness and a lucrative book deal.
Watching now....but after watching the episode on Aaron's channel, two things were VERY OBVIOUS. 1) Miscavige was VERY composed and articulate for a 25 year old kid. It would be interesting to know how he even got up there to speak, given he wasn't known to Scientologists at the time. Hopefully, you bring that up. 2) Pat Broeker was an AWFUL speaker. His body language is very suspect...it's just odd and really shows he doesn't know how to speak. He's nervous and his first statement about "if you can't hear me, move." What a blunder to say, since the event was like 15 minutes old by the time Pat came up. So seeing Pat and seeing Dave, it's easy to see how Dave outmaneuvered Pat...pretty remarkable still for 25 years old.
Thanks very much. I can tell you that it was the first time Miscavige had ever spoken in public before. The next event he did was March 13th for the release of the Road to Freedom Album and he took on the role of Master of Ceremonies and that was it. He got bit by the fame bug and he never let it go. Pat was always more in the "Secret Agent" mode the way he operated. He also never did public speaking. Im sure they were both nervous because it was a big event and they were telling lies. Miscavige's trump card was he controled the Scientology Attorneys and was able to use them to make his moves. Pat just wanted to continue running a ranch full of animals.
@@MarkFisherandJanisGillhamGradyThat makes sense. Now I read an interview from 2010 by Jesse Prince. I’m sure you know him. What he says matches perfectly with LRH’s Visteral in his system and how David viewed Pat Broeker.
Well, come to find out Little Davey was the one taking it to him, who would then give it to Pat Broeker, who would then give it to Dead L. Ron - who wasn’t dead at the time, not physically, but in his mind he’s been dead a long time. Come to find out, these two were taking the money, going to Vegas, gambling like hell, having a great time and then just bringing just part of the money back. And they go away with it because Dead L. Ron never opened up the suitcases. He was too busy screaming at these BTs and clusters to get off of him. He was too busy taking drugs prescribed by psychiatrists and psychologists. He was too busy trying to get electric shock to get these BTs off of him. [6:00]
Now, wait a minute. Wait a minute. We all know Scientology doesn’t believe in health care. We all know that you can’t see a psychologist or a psychiatrist. This is what we found out when he died: I went to… he lived in a bus called The Bluebird, and I went in there and I opened up his medicine cabinet and out fell a zillion pills. I’m like, “What is this? How hypocritical is this?” That was 1986. Well, and the locals had told me he was buying Marijuana off of the people and all kinds of shit.
He dies. Pat Broeker was supposed to take over. Loyal Officer… LO one, LO two… you know, wherever these people come up with this stuff, I don’t know. But he’s insane, too. I mean, [7:00] this guy, you can’t have a rational conversation with him. I mean, you start talking to him about apples and the next thing you know we’re talking about growing pineapples, you know? It was very difficult to talk to this person. I mean, he was not lucid in his mind. And Miscavige had a valid problem: what would happen if this guy took over Scientology? He’s nuts; he’ll tear it all up. Miscavige saved Scientology from Dead L. Ron, and now he has this threat of Pat Broeker. Well, he made the decision: I’m getting rid of him.
Excellent show! But Mark, you need to hold back on using the word "ok". The information you are delivering is awesome, but learning how to deliver the information is also important. If you listen to public speakers, it would be helpful.
Thanks for watching. I know about the OK. This video was done 11 months ago when we were just starting our channel. I think I do a better job of it since then and will continue to improve. LOL