Old Karate had INSANE throws
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- Опубліковано 29 сер 2024
- This video compares techniques from old Karate competitions, and discusses them through a Judo perspective.
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Had to reupload, terribly sorry, been trying to upload far more frequently lately, and my equipments are at their end.
No worries!!!
Aye bro I jus wanted to let u know that karate is full of grappling.dig more research of toutie and tegumi..the old masters like Kenwa Mabuni,Choki Motobu knew about all of this stuff.kata and sparring have always had a connection.the kata is filled with amazing grappling techniques and strikes that can be practiced in live sparring,karate sparring consists of punching,kicking,grappling,throws,elbows,knees,that’s how karate is suppose to spar.u can see this through Bogu Sparring a old sparring type the old masters use to do.but yea…toutie and tegumi…look into it bro🖤
Ever since Kano and Funakoshi were buddies, cross training with judo has always been encouraged with most mainland Japanese karate
That’s what we do-- Old School Taekwondo, Hapkido, and JUDO!!!
@@kennethrogers1129 Sounds like a fun, and tiring training combo.
Long time ago was fortunate enough to go to a JKA university dojo in the USA that sometimes crosstrained with the school's judo club. And up to this day many very high ranking JKA instructors in Japan (or Japanese JKA instructors abroad) hold low dan ranks in judo. I don't know if this works other way (i.e. high ranked judoka's with karate dans).
Actually, karate had it own methods of grappling, gripping, throwing and takedowns before it came to Japan. Other masters such as Kenwa Mabuni, Choki Motobu and Anko Itosu ( one of Funakoshi's masters) were practicing grappling techniques before migrating to Japan. In Okinawa, they had their own form of wrestling called Tegumi, which was mixed in with Te/Tode, the precursor to karate, as well as Southern Chinese Kungfu. In fact, much of the applications found in Okinawan karate are based on Bubishi, the Chinese manual containing all kinds of grappling and joint manipulation. Even the hikite, the cocked hand, is a basic introduction to gripping, trapping, limb control and eventually takedowns and throws.
In fact, a big part of the reason why we don't see much grappling in modern karate today is because Funakoshi and his students were asked to take them out. Judo and Jujitsu and Aikido were already a thing when Karate came to Japan, so most people in the martial arts community felt that having yet another art with grappling was redundant. Plus, Japan wanted an art that could compete with boxing, so they wanted to turn Karate into a sport where there were just strikes and kicks and points given. They used a set of rules which mirrored Kendo's "ikken-hisatsu" rule, the killing blow gaining a point.
So there was some cross training done between Funakoshi Sensei and Kano Sensei, for sure.
You are right!
0:20 - 0:40 Chadi, some of those Karate formats are Enshin Karate's Sabaki Challenge and Ashihara Karate's competitions. Those two are offshoots of Kyokushin Karate and they are founded by Mas Oyama's direct students who were initially Judo practitioners before they met Oyama. Yoshiji Soeno, another Judoka who met Oyama, stated in an interview that the reason they came to train in his Karate style is because Judo doesn't allow any striking technique to practice with full force. Soeno's Shidokan Karate also allows throws and grappling in their modern tournament which is known as the 'Triathlon of Martials' (2 rounds of bareknuckle kumite, 2 rounds of kickboxing and 2 rounds of freestyle fighting.
Oyama also did judo. He was friends with Kimura.
@@quincyfeliscuzo602 Yes, he and Kimura were friends. Even his book shows influences from Judo.
Ashihara was the name! Thank you it was on the tip of my tongue!
Just to add on, the founder of Enshin Karate's name is Joko Ninomiya. I believe I might have even recognized him as one of the fighters in some of the old footage. His whole thing was "sabaki" or circular motion around your opponent to either throw or continue striking them.
Oyama was a blackbelt in kosen judo. Apparently the old Oyama karate (before it became kyokushinkaikan) had throws and face punches, but as the rules got watered down, Oyama removed the throws because actual judokas kept entering and its easier to score an ippon with a throw than with a headkick.
I'm a karate practitioner at my core. Something I've learned as I delved into the history of karate and other martial arts is that karate and jujitsu used to look fairly similar in the late 19th century. Karate would strike more while jujitsu would grapple more, but the differences weren't anything like they are today. Part of this historical journey has been rediscovering what was actually being taught in kata. I've long suspected that there was a whole lot more than punches, kicks, and "blocks" in kata, but it has been eye opening to see how much grappling is in them that has been ignored for decades.
This is what I saw in the 80’s when I would go around and train with (steal from lol) the Jiu-Jitsu guys. Some of them would ring your bell and less “grapplers hunch”.
Started my training in the early 80's and have seen nany changes. One thing that is consistent, advanced Karate = Jujutsu 😎
Very interesting
@@dianecenteno5275 particularly in Wado. Otsuka was already a jujitsu master when he started training with Funakoshi and that influence is still there
As a fellow Karateka who took up Judo, I have been applying throws in a lot of bunkai in my own study. Big movements such as the end of Kanku Dai wherein you take a circular step and rotate your shoulders, ending with a squatting punch now scream "Kata Guruma" or the spin the spin in Heian/Pinan Sandan in to hammer fist now screams Sode Makekomi or Seoi Nage.
Personally, I teach bunkai as an open ended concept rather than "this movement is strictly for this situation." I only feel these movements coming to me because of my Judo practice now. I'm curious how other mixed practitioners feel. I have seen Jesse Enkamp flirt with this idea with some bunkai applications, but found his throws to be unrealstic, all due respect to him.
All arts have throws Especially old style Karate Thanks for showing that grappling is a universal part of most arts
Chadi's channel is one of the best on UA-cam, the content is so varied, fascinating videos get dug up, the Kodokan films that he uses frequently are of amazing quality and clarity for someone so new to Judo he gives an exceptionally good breakdown on the technique - his channel is to Judo what Jesse Enkamps is to Karate.
Thank you so much 🙇🏻♂️ I appreciate it
Thank you so much 🙇🏻♂️ I appreciate it
Thank you so much 🙇🏻♂️ I appreciate it
@@Chadi my pleasure
Indeed!!!👍👍👍👍👍
Indeed it did. My Father is a Second Dan in Wado Ryu which he earned in 1978. Tai-otoshi was part of the Kata he had to perfect for his First Dan. I'm a Judo guy and he's 86 and can still get the positioning footwork perfect. Wado Ryu, was on his 'licence' described as Wado Ryu Karate Jujitsu.
I wish I learnt the old school karate, the real deal !
Great man i practise wado ryu to my teacher ( 6th dan black belt) doesn't teach judo trows because that is not karate
I practiced Wado Ryu karate in the 80's and early 90's when competition fighting tournaments were only once or twice a year. I completely disagreed with tournament rules as I did not consider it Karate fighting even though you were allowed to use trips and sweeps not complete over the shoulder Judo throws. For most of the year we would train in the full Wado Ryu techniques for fighting and self defence using a great deal of jujitsu throws and joint locks. I think now a days that competition rules have watered down the art but it depends on the Sensei.
When i was training in shotokan karate we had one night out of the week that was dedicated entirely to judo throws and technic,we even had to put on a judo jacket that night to practice.My instructor was a hundred percent traditional old school shotokan he trained us for combat not tournament,Aldo he didn’t have a problem with us competing if we chose to.When martial became extremely commercial a lot of corners started getting cut to accommodate the students to keep them from dropping out,at the expense of watering the art down.Now you see black belts that are at white belt level in my opinion judging from the background that i came from.
I learnt shotokan too, unfortunately not the old school one. Mostly katas, very little kumite. And no judo. I wish to rectify the course when I have an opportunity to unlearn the incomplete stuff and learn the real deal.
First one. Matsui- Kyokushin. 100-men Kumite in Honbu dojo , April 18, 1986. The two other ones is Sabaki tournaments from USA in the 80s. Offshot till Kyokushin. Full contact karate. The point karate one I dont know.
I’ll never forget watching a black belt heavyweight karate match, opponent,uki, charged forward lunging chasing ferociously, tori dropped turning sideways very low and a beautiful Kata garuma resulted, uki was flipped over both shoulders in a high arc as tori fundamentally blocked both a uki’s legs about the knees, tori took a grip left hand,raised right arm between uki ‘s legs and rolled immediately on top, it happened so fast, almost like a defensive tackle, and this as a point karate match with no mat work.
Up until recent times, all Japanese students were required to study judo or kendo in primary and/or secondary school. It was compulsory. Karate clubs were mostly in the universities and were taken up by the kendo and judo students after primary/secondary school. By the time they started studying karate, most of them were already proficient in judo or kendo. So in early competitions, you would often see the Japanese karateka resort to judo techniques as a last resort. In the old tournament days, the throws weren't penalized, but you also didn't get a point, as it wasn't "karate". Masahiro Tanaka from the Japan Karate Association was known for throwing an opponent out of the ring with judo techniques when he would get backed up against the edge of the ring. There are numerous videos of him doing it in karate tournaments posted on UA-cam. He did it so the opponent went out of the ring instead of him. So if a penalty point for leaving the ring was incurred, it was against his opponent. Keinosuke Enoeda, Hiroku Kanazawa, Hiroshi Shirai were just a few among many of the JKA karate masters who were proficient in judo long before they were proficient in karate. If you closely watch the teachings of the JKA karate masters, you can usually tell which ones were previously proficient in judo vs. the ones who were previously proficient in kendo. Although it is the same "style" of karate for both of them, the "feeling" behind the techniques and strategies in kumite are often different. Also, if you look throughout the history of the Japanese martial arts, they were a lot more inclusive; "mixed martial arts, if you will. Karatedo (formerly karate-jutsu) had takedowns, wristlocks, throws, etc. and judo (formerly ju-jutsu), aikido (formerly aiki-jutsu), ju jutsu (the correct, original Japanese spelling), etc. had atemi-waza (striking techniques). They are shown in many of the old textsbooks from the 1960s and earlier. Then in the late 1960s and early 1970s, tournaments were developed with points awarded for specific techniques that were considered the basis of a specific art. Thus the techniques not recognized by the tournament rules started falling by the wayside and dropping off dojo curriculums. Thus they often became lost from the specific discipline. Judo and aikido lost atemi-waza. Karate lost many throws and takedowns. Since the specific disciplines quit practicing the techniques not considered the basis of their art, over time, they quit learning how to defend against those lost techniques. As a karateka who started judo and aikido late in my martial arts journey, I would look for "karate" openings when going against senior aikidoka and judoka. When I faced old school judoka and aikidoka who had practiced prior to the late 1960s, I didn't find openings for karate techniques. When facing senior judoka and aikidoka who had started training after the early 1970s when the arts "divided" and became "sterilized" of other art's techniques, I often found many openings for karate techniques. Nowadays, many "traditional" arts only practice defense against the techniques of their own art or fabricated, unrealistic attacks made to fit the defensive techniques of their art. Thus when a "traditional" martial artist encounters an attack from another art or experienced street fighter, they are often unequipped to handle the situation. Of course there are exceptions to every rule. 🥋
That is not really correct. Throwing was nearly all the time allowed in Karate, and if a controlled follow up technique followed: it was Ippon.
@@JiyukanYou are correct for "old school" karate tournaments. But in many of the "modernized" organizations, the match is stopped and/or a competitor penalized if a competitor grabs an opponent. Of course, this is dependant on the organization and/or specific teacher. A few still allow and/or teach grappling as our dojo did. But we weren't allowed to use grappling in several of our organization's tournaments. I remember one of the tournaments specifically, where the organization told competitors only a quick grab was allowed for foot sweeps only. No throws or grappling was authorized, as we were not doing judo. Maybe this rule change also took place to remove the "advantage" former judoka had over non-former judoka competitors.
Nice judo perspective on these throws. Some of the tournament footage I used is from Enshin karate. They use Kyokushin rules but allow throws since it’s founder Joko Ninomiya was also a judoka.
Thank you 🙇🏻♂️
I love how the kata was done at the beginning. Very different than today.
That was the way I learned it in the early 80's. Could you roughly name the differences or point where I could learn about them please. Thank you for your time anyway.
True Okinawan Kara Te was created by fusing indigenous Okinawan Toudi, (a grappling based art), with Chinese Te (a striking based art) so every Okinawan Ryu has had grappling before the Kodokan was formed in Japan.
Gojo Ryu especially has strong grappling locks and throws from Okinawan Toudi.
At 4:05 this is Tanaka Masahiko, 3 time World Karate Shotokan Champion from JKA, in a 70’ s tournament. Tanaka has always been very skilled in different techniques, in addition to his strong spirit/ attitude.
Beat me to it, I was going to say that was Tanaka Sensei.
Some are kyokushin - the one with a panel behind a table might be a hundred man kumite event, the ladt one was from one of the seventies 'strongest Karate' films about the world championships. Some are the sabaki challenge which are essentially kyokushin rules but with gi grabs allowed and throws rewarded, as the founder of this style (enshin) had a judo background as well as kyokushin.
I'm not a fan of wkf point fighting, but at least they allow some throwing, check out rafael agaev (probably spelt wrong!) for good examples of this.
It's all these darn sporting federations and associations plus the Olympics that have ruined traditional martial arts with all their nonsensical rules and reforms.... Every traditional martial art if unlocked to it's fullest potential where every hidden technique in every form or kata were trained properly with bunkai then I think most "traditional styles" would very closely resemble modern MMA.... I'm glad Bas Rutten decided to set up Karate Combat where we can finally see the full potential of real authentic karate at play with his grapples, takedowns and clinches as well as strikes
Great video! Love your old school videos. I did a lot of these throws in my Aikijujutsu training.
Same. I guess it’s all Aiki Jujitsu really. I have never seen a throw we didn’t have and many others are illegal in Judo these days.
Thank you
Your channel is the best... I'm your Brazilian fan and follower
There we go! Sound is all good now :)
Apologies
The reduction of karate to simple blocks, punches, and kicks is such a painful loss for me as a lifetime Karateka. I constantly find applicable karate principles in my Muay Thai and BJJ practice, but I’d be so much better now if it had been introduced to me earlier.
Awesome video.
I'm just a big fan of deashi berai, and ashi waza in general.
Just very practical, low effort/low risk, effective technique.
Great video! I just brought up this gripe about hanging out way over my base giving me fits while trying to learn some wrestling and BJJ stuff. The karate throws look similar but care is given to maintain posture and footing as to not go down with them if possible. It happens but would be considered a less than optimal outcome. Emphasis is on retaining a limb to break it or to stomp/kick the bad guy for awhile.
The throws, take downs, and sweeps on here are very typical of Okinawan styles. Not sure about Japanese. The Korean styles used judo type throws. That’s what I saw anyway.
the thing with wrestling and BJJ is they are solely grappling based arts, this video is about Karate, which is primarily striking based, but they are doing throws similar to what is found in Judo. It would be very difficult to throw a proper punch or kick if you were hunched way over like seen often in BJJ.
Had a teacher 3rd Dan in Judo back in the early 70´s and to his green belts and up he used to teach us Karate from a book written by Masutatsu Oyama ( Vital Karate). He was not a Karate Instructor . We used to do 2 hrs of Judo and about 1and1/2 hr of Karate and we used to spar mixing both styles and it was brutal since we never had any protection and it was all full contact. Watching this video brought back memories. That book was our Bible. Thank you Chadi.
i Chadi, i'm a Kyokushin black belt from the Netherlands, Mr. Bluming was a master pupil of Mas Oyama (founder of Kyokushin) and was a very good Judoka who trained at the Kodokan. He threw a lot of people to the ground in Oyama's dojo, and this might've been a great influence in Kyokushin (since Bluming started the Budokai, Judo and Kyokushin, you can find seminars of him on youtube). I've learned throws in Kyokushin as well, and that's exactly what i'm seeing here. I also see Shokei Matsui in your video, those were parts of his 100 man kumite. Budokai is pretty much the same style as Kudo, but full contact without the protection. Osu!
You'll find a lot of these throws in Okinawan karate kata also kudo competition
For all the trash talk about Karate (no thanks to American sport karate and the ridiculous acrobatics that have nothing to do with TMA), there are gems like this video that show grappling waza which was a fundamental part of combat. These techniques are easily transferable to real self defence, ones that I have used at various times in my life. Heck, even knowing how to break fall has spared me some nasty injuries when I have slipped on ice during our lovely Canadian winters. Thanks for the video!
Judo has always been working hand in glove with karate...they're inseparable...together they accomplish very well the purpose of self-defense...
Good video straightforward no hyperbole or nonsense.
Karate has always been an underrated martial art. And it's surprising for me that it has throws as well, considering it is a striking martial art. The throws are also very similar to Judo, makes me curious whether the origin of these 2 martial arts were combined.
Also I think Karate is an excellent martial art to learn along with Judo, they go so well together.
Nope.according to the old karate masters karate was 50% grappling and 50% striking.this is why karate had tegumi and toutie in it.the lost grappling sides of karate also karate was called Okinawan jiu jitsu back when it was called toudi.which meant Chinese hand before it was changed to karate which means empty hand
There's also the irikumi go competitions for Goju Ryu that involve throws and take downs.
Do you have any good footage? Please post a link I and I think most of us would love to see it.
@@Tamales21 I mean you could just type it in the UA-cam search bar, but here's one compilation from a tournament in the Ukraine 3 years ago. ua-cam.com/video/vvJo4B50TVI/v-deo.html
I was just thinking "show us that mans technique one more time". Thanks Chadi, beautiful stuff here.
As most of us know karate descended from Chinese martial arts. There are numerous examples of throws in Shaolin forms and even more in Wu Tang arts, particularly Pa Kua Ch'ang and Tai Chi Ch'uan. It seems that outside practitioners circles too few people in other arts know little, if anything, about this aspect of Chinese boxing. I appreciate the videos you shared with us featuring Dog Boxing. Perhaps you will find others demonstrating these throws. It would be of interest to see the evolution of such throws through the various arts over the centuries.
All the best.
Laoshr #60
Ching Yi Kung Fu Association
My teacher's master was hidetaka nishiyama, guy was a legend. We were taught shotokan in tangent with judo and aikido. Beautiful system.
This sweep throw is calles Shi Zi tui a very common throw in kung fu. For more informations feel free to ask.
At 1:48 its a argarwood throw method from kung fu.
Harai Goshi can be found also in kung fu but you controll the arms and not the neck in the forms. Its called lift the treasure behind the back. Form example: Beng Bu quan
Throw at 4:48 is a technique from the style "Dìshùquán"
At 6:38 Shi Zi Tui again
At 7:00 its a throw from Eagle Claw Kung Fu
At 7:50 its a Praying Mantis Kung Fu technique "white ape picks the peach" famouse form Beng Bu quan, first road fivth technique.
When karate, kickboxing, became popular, many of the judo went to practice them. And the reflexes of the struggle remained.
Great video! Just 30 years ago I remember my Shotokan sensi KO’ing me in prep for my black belt test.
I could imagine how bad ass tough practitioners were back in the day.
The old days karate incorporated many foot sweep and takedown techniques. Also arm and leg grabbing. The original kicking techniques were also focused to chest and below areas, not neck and head. It was French sailors who visited mainland Japan in early or mid-early 1900s and showed their Savate kicking techniques that inspired Funakoshi's son who ran his father dojo to develop more and higher kicks in modern karate. After mid 1900s some karate master develop their own style by incorporating judo and jujutsu, especially Wado ryu and Ryobu kai. Even when Funakoshi started to introduce his art to mainland japan, he made acquaintances with Jigoro Kano and share dojo with him to help his art more acceptable to Japanese students. And they also practiced together, resulting in techniques exchange.
Sabaki Challenge was the name of the tournament at 6:46 of the video. It was hard core. Bare knuckles with elbows, knees and throws. No face pinches but nevertheless brutal. It was also an offshoot of Kyokushin.
The first video was Funakoshi sensei, founder of Shotokan all though he never called it that. It was Kenpo Tode Jutsu or simply Karate. Some of the other fellas with shorter sleeves seemed like Kyokushin and there was some Ahihara and I think Sabaki Challenge as well.
Karate has crossed paths with Judo and Jujutsu at various stages. Sokkon Matsumura, who was head of the Okinawan imperial guard as well as one of the pioneers of Karate studied Okinawan Te, Chuan Fa in the Fujian province in China and Jiggen Ryu Kenjutsu under the Satsuma in Japan, the same clan that invaded Okinawa. Okinawa already had its own style of grappling as well as influences from China’s White Crane along with its Chin Na grappling. That being said it is suspected that some ideas from Yoshin Ryu Jujutsu which also the Satsumas practiced made its way early on into Okinawan karate.
While bio mechanics already cause various overlapping techniques to occur across styles there are some core concepts such as the connection between weapons and unarmed techniques and their exchangeability as well as throws that follow the exact progression such as Morote Seio Nage, Kata Guruma and O Goshi that show up in karate kata. In fact Funakoshi sensei himself taught throws which can be seen in his books.
As karate made its way into Japan thanks to mater Kano Jigoro bringing along Funakoshi sensei many of his first students were Sumo wrestlers and Judokas. They were more interested in striking which shifted Karates focus away from its grappling methods however some Japanese went on to combine their karate with judo or with jujutsu. Such is the case of master Hinori Otsuka and his Wado Ryu combining karate and Jujutsu or Kudo combining Kyokushin with Judo.
Truthfully both disciplines complement each other well.
We learned some of these throws and foot sweeps/trips in my old karate dojo that descended from Goju, I never made them look this good though!
So there are multiple styles of Karate represented.
Some of them look like offshoots of Kyokushin, which at some point started taking techniques from Judo and Muay Thai.
However there's at least one clip from what appears to be the JKA or a JKA offshoot who are all traditional Shotokan people, it's the clip with tomoe nage and face punches.
I've seen very contemporary competition and training footage showing not only nage waza within the JKA but what seems to be unlimited gripping. I've seen leg grabs, gi grabbing, and all kinds of throws being done and taught by them which is funny considering how maligned they are among some people online. I don't think any other competition/style that is JUST Karate allows as much grappling as they do. And just about (if not all) all the throws I've seen done can be found mentioned in historical Karate books.
The last fight was Tadashi Azuma against a US fighter (can't remember his name) - Azuma went on to found Daido Juku/then Kudo...He emphasized throws, sweeps and even head butts!
One of the blackbelts at the American Kenpo school I trained at in the '80's and early '90's was a Kodokan Judo blackbelt and my teacher, who trained a lot with him, was very good at all of these throws. I didn't realize at the time that not all karate practitioners train these throws.
Also, their throws and grappling would have been much better if the founder of Karate and his associates didn't ditch Tegumi (native wrestling of Okinawa) and freestyle sparring for Japanese schoolchildren since the beginning of 20th century. People could have mini Machidas instead of the backward ones like Olympics Karate.
There are different branches of karate, and I'm not familiar with all of them, but I can say that all these throws shown here with maybe the exception of tomoe nage are contained in the kata below shodan of all styles in the Shuri-te branch. Pinan/Heian kata 1-5, Naihanchi/Tekki kata, and Passai/Bassai Dai kata. Throws in karate are not as disected as in Judo though. Differences that cause Judo to label two throws as different throws are simply thought of as variations of one kind of throw in karate. For example, O Goshi and Uki Goshi would not be considered two different throws in karate, and neither would Seoi Nage and Ippon Seoi Nage. Karate was originally trained shirtless as well, so most of it's throws are no-gi throws at their origin, so any throws that Judo would consider to be different throws owing to the difference in how the gi is gripped would not be distinguished in Karate. The problem is that when karate was imported into Japan from Okinawa, the Japanese were mostly only interested in the striking aspects of karate since they already had Jujutsu, Judo, and Sumo. Consequently, it was Japanese karate that became most prevalent worldwide and even in the 1930's Okinawan karateka were already lamenting the fact that the throws and joint locks of karate were being neglected. So today, very few karate dojo are teaching karate as the clinch fighting art that it began as. It's foundation is not Kung Fu. It's foundation is Okinawan Tegumi, a grappling art. In 1928, Mabuni Kenwa travelled to Tokyo from Okinawa with 5 of his best students and demonstrated karate to Kano at the Kodokan. After the demonstration, Kano said that if Mabuni were at the Kodokan, he'd be awarded 4TH DAN in Judo on the spot. That's how good karateka used to be at their throws. It's well past time to return karate to it's former completeness.
Wow, incredible and revolutionary !
My question is how do we bring real karate like this back bro??
@@AyeJordan7 we can't. We can only evolve karate as it is now, adapt what works and throw away what does not. We can only make karate effective again by moving forwards, not by pursuing the original ways.
Not taught by most karate teachers in america because they weren’t taught to them.
It’s pretty awesome
Same with taiji quan. Many people don't know what they are practicing.
Most of the clips show Ashihara karate, one of many Kyokushin offshoots. Kyokushin itself is a modern karate, being founded in 1965, and its offshoots even more so.
Karate and Judo crosstraining is very effective in a lot of ways. It doesn't matter the style as long as you're away from tag karate.
I believe some of them combined karate and Judo, You can see certain moves from jiu-jitsu/Judo in Ninjitsu
@Chadi Some of this footage is from the Enshin Karate style's Sabaki Challenge tournament. I think further investigating that tournament and style might be interesting to you. Particularly one year I remember seeing a fighter named Genji Ueno win the tournament in impressive fashion. (I was a teen then in my first few years of training...26 years ago!)
Thank you
Enshin and Ashihara are the best Karate. Because they blend in Judo so well.
A good karate school learns you some Judo because it helps you to be a better fighter and self Defense. I am a 3 Degree Black Belt in Goju Ryu Karate. Greetings from the Netherlands 🥋 OSU 🥋
Funakoshi was a friend of Kano's. For sure there was a lot of cross training going on. Atemi-waza was part of Judo since the beginning. I remember reading about a group of western karatekas visiting Kodokan ('50s or '60s maybe) and being very surprised by how good atemi-waza was at Kodokan, something they didn't expect at all from judokas. Too bad while travelling west Judo completely droppped atemi-waza and they are left only as examples of Uke's attacks in Katas. The same goes for grappling in Karate. Both Judo and Karate were much closer to modern MMA in training than they are today. You can see photos of Mifune training atemis no-gi.
Sports jiujitsu was fairly popular before mma/bjj took over. Pointfighting karate with judo throws and submissions.
Even subs that has been banned in judo for a long time.
My local bjj club was a sport/trad jj club first. The blackbelts were almost immidietly made blue or purple belts (the one purple belt was a judo BB to)
Kiyokushin tournament style. You can see Mas Oyama seated at the table. If you find old school karate books you will see they had throws as it was an essential part of self defense. Check out Shidokaikan karate. It’s an offshoot of Kiyokushin. Their tournaments were called “ The Marathon of Martial Arts”. They did it all. But when MMA came on the seen it killed the momentum of their tournaments. Also check out Jon Bluming. He was a Dutch Kiyokushin practitioner who also trained Judo and merged then arts flawlessly. BTW, Mas Oyama also trained in Judo. Hope this helps. Keep up the great work🙏🏼🇺🇸
Bro I love your videos a lot of your videos help me in my BJJ classes
First kata is pinan nidan performed by otsuka Hinori
This style is called wado ryu which is a hybrid of shotokan, kenjutsu and jujutsu.
The emphasis of this school is doing as much damage in the shortest amount of time with minimal effort.
Dropping this comment made me feel like a wee a boo kind a guy
(the kind of dude who thinks he knows best and feels he is the coolest kid on the block because he slashes milk bottles with a katana bought on ali express in his backyard)
because i practice wado & jujitsu 5 times a week
👌
at 1:20 that is Kancho Matsui, he is head of IKO Kyokushin’s original group. 2:15 looks like it may be Enshin or Ashihara Karate
I recently trained a style called Shidokan- an offshoot from Kyokushin. Basically Kyokushin rules- but throws are allowed, with 5 seconds permitted in the clinch, and 3 seconds on the ground. Great rule set, would love to have stuck with it.
These karate clips are all kyokushin karate and a kyokushin karate spin off calked enshin. What alot of people do not know of kyokushin is that kyokushin is a fusion of styles , muay thai, boxing and yes judo. Most of the first generation fighters including mas oyama , sato , azuma etc. All had heavy backgrounds in judo. As a matter of fact by blending the striking and throwing skills the japanese being smaller in structure used this to controll the much bigger americans and europeans
Another great video, Chadi.
You may not be aware of it but there is a high-pitched, keening noise in the audio of this video. You may want to record in a different area or check your equipment.
Looks like it could be Shidokan Karate. It’s a Kyokushin offshoot that incorporates Judo style grappling and Muay Thai striking. "Triathlon" events feature bareknuckle karate Kyokushin style, with the additions of throws and a short time for ground submissions, followed by kickboxing, then essentially an MMA round, but these events are harder to find now. Fights that are the Karate round only look just like what you posted. Check out ShidokanAtlanta.
Great content, thank you!
The tomoe nague was carried out Masahiko Tanaka...a multiple shotokan world champ...he got his first gold medal in 1975...there are other styles that could be kyokushin or the Karate style known as Daido-juku, created by Master Takashi Azuma in 1981, as a breakaway offshoot from the Kyokushin lineage, that allows all Judo throws and Judo Newaza in its training and competition....he created a tournament called Kudo...
Olá. Mjunior do Brasil. Seu vídeos são excelentes!
Nice. But I can tell you that you have only started to scratch the surface. I highly recommend to check out the channels Karate Culture and its successor Karate Breakdown. Because there are many more throws in Karate than you might imagine. The motto is "A block is a lock is a throw!" There are many throws in Karate that are induced via a joint lock.
When Jigoro Kano visited Okinawa he attended a demonstration by Kenwa Mabuni (founder of Shito Ryu). After the demonstration he told Kenwa Mabuni that for his profound knowledge Mabuni should be awarded the 4th Dan in Judo. I was reading this anecdote in the book "Empty Hand" by Kenei Mabuni.
Those kinds of throws and sweeps are used in enshin karate tournaments, and in the world sabaki challenge. Shokei Matsui is kyokushjn karate master of Korean descent and we can see the technique at 0:49 in that occasion Matsui fought against 100 kyokushjn karatekas.
I meant kyokushin
I meant kyokushin
I have been training karate shito ryu since I was a child (30 years training) and I have trained most of the throws you showed in this video. Some of them can be directly Guess in some katas and others less common used in self defense. I Hope this help you
Btw, karate is not about punching and kicking. Karate katas contains thousands of throws, joint breaks, lockdowns and others ways to finish a combat inmediatly as attacking to eyes.
Old-school karate is basically a mix of Judo and karate... they slowly separated each style out to make their own "sports"
Old school karate the best and real karate !
@@miketesla8550 it REALLY was... if you watch the old school fighting karate videos they absolutely loved their judo throws and integrated them tactically into fight... no matter what kind of throw or strike you like to land you're more likely to land it when your opponent is worried about both throws and Strikes because you have a much wider setup option... it's way harder to head kick a kickboxer or take down a wrestler then it is to pull off either technique in MMA so naturally the same Theory applies in karate... it's hard to catch your opponent with a good throw unless he's worried about getting kicked!
You should totally speak with Jess Enkamp (karate nerd)
You can see God•Hand Mas Oyama at the table in one of the scenes
Okinawan Karate already has throws, joint locks and grappling. It’s just, a student doesn’t learn it until striking as been mastered.
Your favorite is Masahiko Tanaka Shotokan karate, I have the opportunity to attend his training.
70-90% of the moves we do in Kata are wrestling moves, throws, and takedowns. Very few moves in kata are actually strikes
@chadi I once saw a karate clip where the instructor would throw kicks and punches over and around the grip of the gi. It demonstrated catching the gi from a blocked strike and not being able to make the distance close to throw the person and to instead restrain and strike the opponent. Have you seen this video?
Btw - Love this channel. Reminds me how much a martial arts nerd I've always been 😂
These were used in old kumite all of the time. When I was competing as a kid as recently as 90's, these were pretty common. We all did those takedowns. We stole some from judo, but sometimes, our karate teachers taught us these throws. Some of the techniques that we used were definitely not judo.
Unfortunately, the WKF and the Olympic Committee are currently in the process of murdering karate with terrible competition rules. I would not expect karate takedowns to survive.
I wish Karate Combat would use the gi instead of fighters being topless, I think they want to favor more striking centric karate styles
Great video highlighting how sport watered down the way Japanese martial arts were traditionally practiced. It must be noted that many of the people highlighted in the video are from the SABAKI Challenge. One particular student is a the son of Grandmaster Ninomiya, the founder of Enshin Karate. I'd say the average Enshin black belt is equal to Sankyu in Judo. But in the case of the grandmaster's son, he was an Aikido black belt as well as Karate belt. The boxing in Kyokushin and Enshin is poor. However, I'm sharing this to encourage the importance of cross training in arts that blend well with the principles of your primary art. I met some Enshin students in person and I would never encourage a loved one or enemy to have a street fight with some of their best students. Likewise I feel the same about Judo black belts with wrestling and boxing backgrounds. Also Japan has many Shotokan fighters with Shooto or Catch Wrestling backgrounds. Vicious styles to combine. The average person is more prepared for a boxer than some of the arts mentioned. So you will not get this display of well rounded skills from training in PURE karate. Every karate man in the video cross trained.
Enshin karate and it's parent art Ashihara karate are a blend of Kyokushin and Judo.
The guy who does the Harai is Mike Ninomiya. The son of Enshin founder Joko Ninomiya. Both father and son have a Judo background. I think Mike was the Colorado state Judo champion.
More Karatekas have to cross train Judo. It's what are forefathers would have wanted.
the harai goshi looks like a ashihara / enshin karate competiton. they call / used to call it sabaki challenge
This looks a lot like Okinawan karate that closes distance while striking. And throws and grapples. I believe there are 3 or 4 Okinawan styles. Can't remember now. But I might be wrong.
Looks like kudo, i practice wado ryu ( founder was a Ju Jitsu practitioner and karateka) we have some trows but they are more wristlocks-trows like aiki-jiu jitsu /Akido.
Karate have trows (nage-waza) but they are more like ouchi gari-osoto gari-ashi barai-morote gari .
So the trows i mention above is that the techniques have to be fast and to keep distance because how closer you are against your opponent ,the more vulnerable your are.
I'm sure Funakoshi and Jigoro Kano have met many times to discuss how to use both styles to make them better , but they had different philosophies for their martial art and went their own path ( Do).
Technique wise I saw Wado Ryu and Shotokan. I see the comments below, not sure how much Enshin Ryu is having different techniques, or if it is more a competition approach.
Someone else mentioned it, but you checked out some Enshin/Ashihara karate. You should definitely check out the sabaki method they take. It’s supposed to be a mixture of judo/sumo techniques used in enshin/ashihara.
You also had the Kanchos sons highlight at one point.
There are traditionally a lot of throws in Karate. You can see that through Kata and their applications. The main reason I guess they are not common today is that throws are not allowed in sports karate. My understanding is that they wanted to separate sports karate from Judo thus forbidding most if not all throws. You can still do some ashi barai takedowns, but that's pretty much it as far as I understand.
Example kata for throw could be Heian Godan, Basai dai, but there are many others (Shotokan). I guess those two just come to mind the easiest for me as examples.
My students learn both Shotokan and Judo and some aikido..
You should really watch Aghayev, he´s not oldschool and he does insane throws all the time in modern karate competitions. On a side note in karate we practice a lot of throwing, but it differs from judo mainly in the setup, they´re often use after a punch or after grabbing the leg or arm of the opponent, also if the opponent comes to close to you and doesn´t regain the distance.
tomoe-nage part is a shotokan competition. the rest, is kyokushin.
When I was a child, back in the 80's and I was studying Kyokushinkai, I remember that they taught us a lot of self-defense, and we also complemented with Judo teachings in our formal study program. Today, unfortunately, "Modern Japanese Karate" has sacrificed everything for the sporting aspect and for the most part they are no longer effective martial arts or faithful to their roots as a combat system... I think it's a shame, and I think it is better to study any traditional style of Chinese martial arts if you are not lucky enough to get a Traditional Okinawan Karate-Do Dojo...or of course a good Kyokushinkai Dojo😉
This looks like the karate I did at the local YMCA. We called this kata. We consider kata "karate". We use practice kumite (sparring) to practice kata (karate). We don't compete but is optional.
I am not sure what I am allowed to say. It seems there is a gag order and ban on teaching karate.
6:18that is Chinese style throw in origin.the circular movement. They practice this same exact throw in tai chi.facts.same dynamics in wingchun&wushu sidestepping or turning to the side to attack
The harai-goshi was great, but wouldn't score under the Sabaki Challenge rules. For throws and sweeps to score under those rules, tori must remain on his feet. (1 point without a controlled punch or kick; 3 points if you execute a controlled punch or kick to your downed opponent.)
Have you seen the trips and sweeps used in Muay Thai clinch? I think you'd also find them interesting.
Wow... that harai goshi was good.
At least to me, it looks like karate kyokushin, because it against the rules of world karate Federation grabbing for more than 5 seconds. But like my sensei told me recently, the rules have changed recently in the shito ryu kumite rules.
Если внимательно рассмотреть каратэ, дзюдо, айкидо и др. то принципы заложенные в них одинаковы, а это говорит о происхождении их из одного источника! Масса тела, сила ног, крепость рук, сила движения - вот эти принципы!
Le Karaté a toujours eu des projections, le plus gros problème c'est l'aspect "sportif" de compétition qui ne fait que limiter les arts de plus en plus pour les rendres plus sécuritaires...
Karate used to be a more complete fighting system, the losing of many grabs and throws happened due to wanting to keep the best techniques from americans stationed in Japan, and Karate turning into sport.
Look into the Sabaki Challenge for some cool throws in karate.
It's Wado-Ryu if I am not mistaken, combining Karate and Judo.
It is kudo trust me i practice wado ryu
wado is japanese jujitsu not judo mixed with karate.
@@Sensei_Gaz Yes
Really guys 😂
It's the age of internet, anyone can just type Wado-Ryu and Google tell everything about it
@@MizanQistina i practice wado ryu myself and my teacher is 6th degree black belt and his teacher hideo muramatsu was direct student of hironori otsuka.
So i know where i'm talking about .
Ref almost got clipped. Didn’t anticipate.
remnants of old okinawan karate