The issue is not on the Stomp. It's the digital pedal because it's not analog dry-through. Dan and Mick from That Pedal Show guys always talk about this when talking about wet-dry (parallel paths are the same as wet-dry or dual mono) The only way to sort this out is to have the digital pedal fully wet and use the Mix on the fxloop block as on-off with snapshots. Or have an analog dry-through effect outside the Stomp.
I didn’t watch the whole video, but if you’re putting the FX Loop block on a parallel path, you’ll undoubtedly run into phase issues. You have two dry signals that way, and the one in the loop is going through the FX loop’s converters, causing latency, thus causing phasing.
I’m pretty sure line 6 knows about this problem, and has for years. I noticed this as soon as I got the stomp, and over the years I’ve replaced my delays and reverb trying to fix it. Not sure if I’ve just gotten used to it or if source audio has better tonal quality to what I was running, but I forgot all about this being a problem till this video. Now I’ll have to check everything again, dang it.
haha...yeah, I got some more testing to do when I can get time...I think if they put a slider adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
I had a similar issue running a TC Electronic Alter Ego V1 in the parallel effects loop of a Marshall JVM with the mix set to 50%. The issue was caused by the latency introduced on the dry signal by the pedal which would then cause phase issue when summed back to the unprocessed guitar signal. The way I solved it was simply by setting the pedal on kill dry so that any dry signal it receives is muted and it outputs only the effected signal.
Pretty sure this is called Comb filtering. Could you add a 1-10ms (100% wet) delay to the non-FX loop side? This would, in theory, bring the non-FX loop side back in phase with its counterpart.
I had a similar problem while using my UA Ruby on path B: The fx loop + Ruby introduced a 4ms latency which I was able to fix by adding the "Simple Delay" (4ms delay, one repeat, mix 100%) on path A and everything lined up nicely. I'd suggest you try that and let me know if it fixed it for you. Edit: And yes, I am certain the main problem is the digital to analog, and analog to digital conversion of the fx loop. Edit2: Oh, and I also found experimenting with the mix of the fx loop block quite helpful; if I recall correctly it was not set to 100% by default.
Yeah I was gonna recommend the same - Alex Strabala used to intentionally add something like this on his stereo amp path to intentionally "widen" the image. We can use the same principle to "correct" an unintended widening
I'd say problem solved, well done. If Hx Stomp could measure it's latency, which varies with DSP usage or the used effect model, it may automatically correct latency. Just like anyDAW would. So long....we have to make it by ourselves, like you did :-)
Finally, I feel I’m not crazy. Is even worse when you have 2 pedals on the fx loop (Mel9 & B9) and you wanna stereo set them hard left, hard right! I gave up a couple months ago😅 I’m glad I saw ur vid! Now I can sleep better 😂 Thanks brother!
First video I've seen with the whiteboard, love it! Now with the phase issues, my best guess is that it's on the backend software and Line 6 would have to implement something into their code. I definitely hear what you hearing though.
Thanks man! Im visual so the whiteboard helps me too! Also I think if they put a slider adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
I would try to run the external pedal 100% WET (no dry mix) and manage the DRY MIX in the fx loop block. This way the latency only affects the WET signal, and the phasing issues are usually not happening.
So basically you need to ensure your DRY signal is never mixed with another dry signal coming from the loop. That's why when your delay is engaged and 100% wet the effect disappears.
@@HeyWorshipLeader As long as the last block (or last external effect if it's the loop) in the path is 100% wet it will work. To adjust the amount of dry/wet, use the A/B split at the split. The volume drop you were talking about is 3dB in the worst case scenario.
Phasing can also be an issue in an analog rig using parallel amps and/or effects. Working in a small studio, we typically recommend against it. When we've done it, we use a delay to get the two paths to play nicely. I understand the tonal qualities gained by the approach but it has downsides.
Per defintion a "problem" but its perfectly understandable... you're adding an D/A and A/D conversion which adds latency. Oh, and your Jet Reverb is digital to right? So it also has a A/D and D/A conversion. That's a whopping four times conversion for one pedal. It can't be fixed really. Nature of things. One solution would be if Line 6 could add latency to the digital path whenever a loop block is set to a parallel path. It would be a guess work.
True...I think if they put a slider parameter adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
My fx loop hisses the moment something is plugged in, if I use a pedal it sounds ok, but I’ve not tried doing a split like this. I have put my isp decimator 2 g string in the loop and if I have a overdrive as a boost over 3 with the fx loop after the amp block I get a weird feedback sound, move the fx loop before the amp block or disable the boost or reduce the output to 3 and it’s fine. I think my stomp xl has a problem.
What pedals do you use in the fx loop? If you’re putting an overdrive in the effects loop, then it needs to be before the amp. And overdrive will never sound good after the amp. If that’s not what you meant, send me a picture of your signal chain and Pedalboard so I can look at it. jimmy@heyworshipleader.com
I had this same issue when i tried running a 100% wet reverb in the fx loop so i could set the "mix" of the fx loop block to an exact percentage of reverb that i wanted and assign a switch to increase/decrease the mix since my reverb pedal didn't have presets. Never figured out how to avoid the phase cancellation issues
@@Aevyn haha...no taken. I got it set up and didn't really like it. But now that I've messed with the action, it feels a lot like it used to. I may start playing it more! :)
@@HeyWorshipLeader oh nice! And I'm sure it's nothing against the Reverend, full size humbuckers just have a tendency to sound dull compared to the string definition and twang and sparkle you get out of a tele with single coils. Anyway keep up the great work Jimmy, you've become one of my favorite UA-camrs and i always look forward to seeing the fresh content you put out
Because you're saying the pedal doesn't do presets also leads me to believe that even though you had the wet effects at 100% you're dry signal wasn't being turned off as it is in a pedal with a "kill dry" option so underneath it all it was still present and causing the issue. Only thing that makes sense to me because that shouldn't be happening.
I have a similar / the same problem but with a fuzz pedal (Wampler Velvet Fuzz) that lives in every stomp xl patch I create. But I thought let's try to mix it in at e.g. 50% moving it to a parallel path. Now sometimes, sometimes, it turns into this awful sound. It happens in some paths, not all. Can't figure why as it is reproducible in that specific patch/path and it will not happen in that other path. I'm not quite not sure its latency as the fuzz effect is just messed up, sounding odd. It seems more like a analog to digital conversion issue. Stranger things!
You've been looking for a reason to not get an HX Stomp. Well I'll give you several reasons why you should get one. Just give me a chance, hear me out, for you... and anyone else who might not know the power of the darkside, wait... What? I mean "the power of the HX Stomp." 1. Are you looking to get a pedal that does everything with a small footprint and low cost? Get the HX Stomp. 2. Do you also want it to be your switcher/midi controller and still at the lowest cost possible? Get the HX Stomp XL. (If you have the money get the Helix.) 3. Thinking about adding it to your pedalboard? The HX Stomp is all you need. 4. Starting a band and y'all don't really have any gear yet? HX Stomp or XL (control two instruments for two players in the band with one pedal.) Not a new band but like the idea of controlling two instruments with one pedal and you've got the money? Get the Helix 5. Done with having to carry amps and cabs around? HX Stomp/XL or Helix but not the HX Effects because it doesn't have the amp modeling. I got my HX Stomp new for just under $500. I got it just before the price increase and with $100 off. My friend got the HX Effects used for $420. At Guitar Center in the USA you can get these pedals used for around $450 or so and at these prices nothing else comes close. You can even get the 2yr warranty at GC for cheap. Two boutique pedals and you've already spent more than the HX. If you were to extract everything the HX does and sell it separately you'd be shocked at the real world value. It's quite remarkable all the things you can do with the Stomp. It's just too good to not have one of these around. It's literally everything in one small package. FX unit, re-amp box, di box, audio interface, midi controller, many amps/cabs/mics and much more. The effects loop issue is a real bummer and I never noticed it because I wasn't using the HX Stomp in the way shown here. I normally run my delay and reverb pedals on the line out of the HX Stomp. I go out from my pedalboard into the Stomp so the problem shown here has never been an issue. My switcher doesn't do trails so buy having it outside the switcher I get trails from the pedals themselves (FYI pro tip for loop switchers without trails.) Recently I put them in the loop and was experiencing unwanted tone altering results. Some phase/comb filtering issue, too much highs when engaging the delay and reverb pedals. The problems shown here are specific to the scenario shown here. It is strictly a short ms delay issue from the A/D D/A conversion going on and also whenever you have more than one dry signal going through the path and not using a pedal with a "kill dry" option. This problem can happen with any gear if these types of things are present in the signal chain. This is not exclusive to the HX. The effects loop is still useable in other scenarios. This doesn't happen when using the HX FX Loop for the 4CM with an actual amp and cab and certain pedals somewhere else in the chain. No problems when you have pedals before or after the HX. This thing does everything. You can have two guitars into one amp level matched like a LP and Strat or send them to separate amps. You can have a guitar going to the guitar amp and a bass going to the bass amp. One person can supply the FX and control preset changes for two instruments in the band. When using this method the singer could just concentrate on singing and playing their instrument while someone else in the band makes the preset changes. This isn't just a laziness or convenience thing, it's also a "you're band is just starting out and y'all don't have lots of money for gear thing." Mono, stereo, wet/dry either direct "booooo" lol or real amps (because that's how I do it,) it does it all. You can clone you're actual board like I did. You can then take that cloned board and level it out for different guitars and have several presets if needed. You can program one switch to do many things all at once with one press. A feature I have yet to see on other devices with the level of complexity as these little multi-tasking switches. This multi-task switch feature alone is game changing. If that isn't enough you can still use it on other instruments, keyboards and vocals. Yeah... for the price... no brainer, just order one already or look for that deal like how we got ours. They occasionally do $100 off the Stomp or Effects. I bought the Stomp and I already had $5000 worth of pedals, still worth it. So now what do you think? If you made it this far I'm glad you did and you're definitely interested in an HX Stomp. I don't know it all but ask me anything about the HX Stomp and I'll try to help. Go back to the top of my post and re-read the questions I asked. Those are the best choices for those specific requirements that one might have.
I've never noticed encountered any issues, but then I also run a SA Collider in the stereo loop to do all of my delays and reverbs and they are set parallell inside the box, so my A path is completely dry and only my B path is effected.
Yeah...that's a good set up...the only way to have your delays and reverbs both be outside of the stomp itself, so it doesn't have to do any internal processing between the 2
I have the collider too and never tried that. I run directly out of stomp into collider out to house via 1/4 to XLR and it works great. Ran into a boxy type sound in fx loop
Thats always an issue if you have parallel processing. Is there a second FX loop that you could set on path A to get the same delay on both paths? In the X32 Mixer for example if you do parallel compression and use an inserted compressor that introduces latency, you need to put it on the dry channel as well to time align them. If there is no second FX loop, the solution would be to have a delay compensation block where you can dial in the amount of latency. This is how the Waves LV1 Mixer handles external effects that my have latency by themself in addition to the DA/AD conversion.
Gotcha....I think if they put a slider adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
I have the same problem, only I’m listening with headphones and I’ve got a few different types including Breyer dynamic, sennheiser etc. it’s very annoying and I need to find a way of resolving the issue. As I have explained, I’m not running external fx and running parallel. It’s simply headphones into left in. Help!
I think if they put a slider adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
I doubt you can fix that because of how digital works. The fx loop will cause polarization and when it’s the doing that to both sides you don’t hear it. But if you have it in the fx loop you will. You would have to run both delay and reverb outside the stomp and do the parallel there. I’m looking at the Morningstar ML10x (will replace the ML5) to be able to do that on my big board. Can wire it so I can run my reverb and delay anywhere in the chain and parallel or series. My flyrig is fine since I run all delays and reverbs on the stomp.
I think if they put a slider adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
@@HeyWorshipLeader it would just make things feel off as you play because they would only be able to make thing match the fx loops latency. I’m thinking a better processor would help with the latency. But that would mean new equipment.
There is another problem with FX loop. If the FX loop block is at the very end PAST the split AND merge block. So FX loop at the very end of path A. If you have ANYTHING at all in path b at all the FX loop is massively affected by it for some reason. Just try taking a simple volume block and dropping it to path B and back to path A while keeping the FX loop at the very end of path A. By all means it should NOT be affecting the FX loop that's way past the split and merge blocks... But for some reason if anything at all is in path B, it affects the FX loop at the end of path A. Can anyone tell me why??
@@HeyWorshipLeader I'm really looking forward to the videos you make with the new Helix 3.50 update. I just hope one of your videos shows a solution to the FX loop problem I told you about. And I hope you can do a tutorial on how to make ambient pads with the 3 note generator, not with your guitar and looper. But just the 3 note generator and delays and reverbs. Hopefully the new Dynamic Ambient Reverb will make the pads better. I've been waiting on someone to do a tutorial. Then with snapshots you can change pad keys as long as you build the pads with the 3 note generator in the pitch/synth category.
@@olejason I understand that part. The problem I have is how to make it sound ambient. Which Reverb and delays to add. Where to put them iñ the chain. What settings to use to make it sound like a big lush worship pad. That's my issue.
What do you mean by "massively affected?" It sounds to me like normal behavior within the HX Stomp. When the signal is split, the volume is centered on both paths and then it merges at the mixer with a 3db boost. After you split hard pan L and R and remove the 3db boost from the mixer, DONE. What you're saying isn't a problem. I've got a full guitar signal, all the dynamics are there and it's level matched to the previous single path state. I'm using 4CM into a real amp and cab and using the HX Stomp's FX Loop R with my H9.
One other problem of the HX Stomp I found is that the volume of the amp models are too weak for them to be used as a pre-amp into the return of a tube amp's effects loop. It clips when you increase the amp model volume with the global output volume to be loud enough and match the amp's output like when playing straight in front through it only.
@@boimesa8190 found a few tutorials and looks like I may need to try the full amp models (vs. just the preamps) and select line output (vs. instrument) to get a bigger volume.
I'm currently using 4CM but when you disable the FX loop Left block, it is the same as just going into the amps FX Loop Return only. The pre-amps sound great in my setup and just as loud as my tube amp. No need to adjust the global volume levels, no clipping. I don't seem to have the issue you're describing when using the HX with my tube amp and cab. I did watch a HX video here and someone else described what you're saying. They were only referring to some of the older vintage type tweed amps and such sounding better with the full amp version. I however run the pre-amps only, channel volume usually around 4.0 or so and never maxing anything out as you said, you kind of have to and then you're clipping. Some FX Loops expect to receive a line level signal and some an instrument level. Other FX Loops will have an FX Level button on the back with a -10 pad or a +4 boost for either an instrument level or line level signal so it wouldn't matter. Sometimes you can find this information in the manual but sometimes you won't. It is my understanding that when it isn't mentioned in the manual is because it accepts both "usually," that's why it isn't specifically mentioned. Lastly and most importantly. If any of you are using the HX Stomp in 4CM with an amp and cab like I am and switching between real amp and HX pre-amp model presets, you will not be able to or "shouldn't" change the output to line level for more volume as mentioned in an earlier post. The front of your amp needs to receive an instrument level. The line level will be too hot for the front of the amp and you're whole tone/settings will sound different. You may even damage something if you're like me and you're volume or gain is maxed and you use the guitar's volume knob for your gain staging. The HX Stomp doesn't let you choose line and instrument as in the full Helix units. Their you can have instrument level going to the front of the amp and line level to the amps FX Loop. On the HX Stomp it's one or the other. Let me know what amps give you this issue and I'll try it with my setup.
I just got a stomp about a month ago and have been struggling with this since. I want to do a wet/dry type signal path with wet effects in the loop or separate delay and reverb on path a and b but it sounds awful anytime I do it.
Forget about the FX in the loop for now and run them on the line out of the HX Stomp. You shouldn't have any problems using the onboard delays and reverbs and splitting paths, that stuff works just fine.
![АЛАУДИНОВ у Скабеевой: эти их ВСУ нас НЕ ДОГОНЯТ 😁 [Пародия]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/an0anqU4WGQ/mqdefault.jpg)
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The issue is not on the Stomp.
It's the digital pedal because it's not analog dry-through.
Dan and Mick from That Pedal Show guys always talk about this when talking about wet-dry (parallel paths are the same as wet-dry or dual mono)
The only way to sort this out is to have the digital pedal fully wet and use the Mix on the fxloop block as on-off with snapshots.
Or have an analog dry-through effect outside the Stomp.
I didn’t watch the whole video, but if you’re putting the FX Loop block on a parallel path, you’ll undoubtedly run into phase issues. You have two dry signals that way, and the one in the loop is going through the FX loop’s converters, causing latency, thus causing phasing.
I’m pretty sure line 6 knows about this problem, and has for years. I noticed this as soon as I got the stomp, and over the years I’ve replaced my delays and reverb trying to fix it. Not sure if I’ve just gotten used to it or if source audio has better tonal quality to what I was running, but I forgot all about this being a problem till this video. Now I’ll have to check everything again, dang it.
haha...yeah, I got some more testing to do when I can get time...I think if they put a slider adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
I had a similar issue running a TC Electronic Alter Ego V1 in the parallel effects loop of a Marshall JVM with the mix set to 50%.
The issue was caused by the latency introduced on the dry signal by the pedal which would then cause phase issue when summed back to the unprocessed guitar signal.
The way I solved it was simply by setting the pedal on kill dry so that any dry signal it receives is muted and it outputs only the effected signal.
Thanks! Super useful vid and comments. I’m adding an external reverb to Helix and noticed the sound degraded, but didn’t think of phasing!
Glad to help!
Looking forward to this. I stopped using the fx loop of my stomp awhile back. Some weirdness with it but the fact that it needs a block is lame.
understandable
Pretty sure this is called Comb filtering. Could you add a 1-10ms (100% wet) delay to the non-FX loop side? This would, in theory, bring the non-FX loop side back in phase with its counterpart.
I had a similar problem while using my UA Ruby on path B: The fx loop + Ruby introduced a 4ms latency which I was able to fix by adding the "Simple Delay" (4ms delay, one repeat, mix 100%) on path A and everything lined up nicely. I'd suggest you try that and let me know if it fixed it for you. Edit: And yes, I am certain the main problem is the digital to analog, and analog to digital conversion of the fx loop. Edit2: Oh, and I also found experimenting with the mix of the fx loop block quite helpful; if I recall correctly it was not set to 100% by default.
That'll be a fun experiment to see how many ms it's adding. But still not a solution to have to add that...boo..haha...thanks for sharing!
Yeah I was gonna recommend the same - Alex Strabala used to intentionally add something like this on his stereo amp path to intentionally "widen" the image. We can use the same principle to "correct" an unintended widening
I'd say problem solved, well done. If Hx Stomp could measure it's latency, which varies with DSP usage or the used effect model, it may automatically correct latency. Just like anyDAW would. So long....we have to make it by ourselves, like you did :-)
How did yo ufigure out the 4 ms delay? Did you just record both paths on seperate mono channels and then line up the timing, or is there another way?
Hey. I am more curious if you use dual amp with ruby + hx stomp? If so, what amp and cab setting you paired with ruby on parallel path?
Finally, I feel I’m not crazy. Is even worse when you have 2 pedals on the fx loop (Mel9 & B9) and you wanna stereo set them hard left, hard right! I gave up a couple months ago😅
I’m glad I saw ur vid! Now I can sleep better 😂 Thanks brother!
First video I've seen with the whiteboard, love it! Now with the phase issues, my best guess is that it's on the backend software and Line 6 would have to implement something into their code. I definitely hear what you hearing though.
Thanks man! Im visual so the whiteboard helps me too! Also I think if they put a slider adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
I would try to run the external pedal 100% WET (no dry mix) and manage the DRY MIX in the fx loop block. This way the latency only affects the WET signal, and the phasing issues are usually not happening.
So basically you need to ensure your DRY signal is never mixed with another dry signal coming from the loop. That's why when your delay is engaged and 100% wet the effect disappears.
I;m gong to try this soon and think it will work, but not if someone wants to put more than one pedal in the loop...
@@HeyWorshipLeader As long as the last block (or last external effect if it's the loop) in the path is 100% wet it will work. To adjust the amount of dry/wet, use the A/B split at the split. The volume drop you were talking about is 3dB in the worst case scenario.
Phasing can also be an issue in an analog rig using parallel amps and/or effects. Working in a small studio, we typically recommend against it. When we've done it, we use a delay to get the two paths to play nicely. I understand the tonal qualities gained by the approach but it has downsides.
100% that’s what it is.
Per defintion a "problem" but its perfectly understandable... you're adding an D/A and A/D conversion which adds latency. Oh, and your Jet Reverb is digital to right? So it also has a A/D and D/A conversion. That's a whopping four times conversion for one pedal.
It can't be fixed really. Nature of things. One solution would be if Line 6 could add latency to the digital path whenever a loop block is set to a parallel path. It would be a guess work.
True...I think if they put a slider parameter adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
@@HeyWorshipLeader Use the Simple Delay. It has 0.1ms resolution below 1ms.
My fx loop hisses the moment something is plugged in, if I use a pedal it sounds ok, but I’ve not tried doing a split like this. I have put my isp decimator 2 g string in the loop and if I have a overdrive as a boost over 3 with the fx loop after the amp block I get a weird feedback sound, move the fx loop before the amp block or disable the boost or reduce the output to 3 and it’s fine. I think my stomp xl has a problem.
What pedals do you use in the fx loop? If you’re putting an overdrive in the effects loop, then it needs to be before the amp. And overdrive will never sound good after the amp. If that’s not what you meant, send me a picture of your signal chain and Pedalboard so I can look at it. jimmy@heyworshipleader.com
The fx loop was an issue for me
I had this same issue when i tried running a 100% wet reverb in the fx loop so i could set the "mix" of the fx loop block to an exact percentage of reverb that i wanted and assign a switch to increase/decrease the mix since my reverb pedal didn't have presets. Never figured out how to avoid the phase cancellation issues
Also, no offense intended because i love you and love your videos, but your tele sounds SUPREMELY better than the Reverend.
@@Aevyn haha...no taken. I got it set up and didn't really like it. But now that I've messed with the action, it feels a lot like it used to. I may start playing it more! :)
@@HeyWorshipLeader oh nice! And I'm sure it's nothing against the Reverend, full size humbuckers just have a tendency to sound dull compared to the string definition and twang and sparkle you get out of a tele with single coils. Anyway keep up the great work Jimmy, you've become one of my favorite UA-camrs and i always look forward to seeing the fresh content you put out
Because you're saying the pedal doesn't do presets also leads me to believe that even though you had the wet effects at 100% you're dry signal wasn't being turned off as it is in a pedal with a "kill dry" option so underneath it all it was still present and causing the issue. Only thing that makes sense to me because that shouldn't be happening.
I think that’s because the split signal is centered. Try panning split A to Left and B to right
I tried that off camera...when I split them, even if they merge back together in the mixer block, my delays go to one side. I don't won't that.
Has NOTHING to do with phasing... 🤦🤦🤦
In my experience these problems happen no matter the panning
I have a similar / the same problem but with a fuzz pedal (Wampler Velvet Fuzz) that lives in every stomp xl patch I create. But I thought let's try to mix it in at e.g. 50% moving it to a parallel path. Now sometimes, sometimes, it turns into this awful sound. It happens in some paths, not all. Can't figure why as it is reproducible in that specific patch/path and it will not happen in that other path. I'm not quite not sure its latency as the fuzz effect is just messed up, sounding odd. It seems more like a analog to digital conversion issue. Stranger things!
I’ve been looking for a reason to not get an HX stomp, Thanks.
hahaha
You've been looking for a reason to not get an HX Stomp. Well I'll give you several reasons why you should get one. Just give me a chance, hear me out, for you... and anyone else who might not know the power of the darkside, wait... What? I mean "the power of the HX Stomp."
1. Are you looking to get a pedal that does everything with a small footprint and low cost? Get the HX Stomp.
2. Do you also want it to be your switcher/midi controller and still at the lowest cost possible? Get the HX Stomp XL. (If you have the money get the Helix.)
3. Thinking about adding it to your pedalboard? The HX Stomp is all you need.
4. Starting a band and y'all don't really have any gear yet? HX Stomp or XL (control two instruments for two players in the band with one pedal.) Not a new band but like the idea of controlling two instruments with one pedal and you've got the money? Get the Helix
5. Done with having to carry amps and cabs around? HX Stomp/XL or Helix but not the HX Effects because it doesn't have the amp modeling.
I got my HX Stomp new for just under $500. I got it just before the price increase and with $100 off. My friend got the HX Effects used for $420. At Guitar Center in the USA you can get these pedals used for around $450 or so and at these prices nothing else comes close. You can even get the 2yr warranty at GC for cheap. Two boutique pedals and you've already spent more than the HX. If you were to extract everything the HX does and sell it separately you'd be shocked at the real world value. It's quite remarkable all the things you can do with the Stomp. It's just too good to not have one of these around. It's literally everything in one small package. FX unit, re-amp box, di box, audio interface, midi controller, many amps/cabs/mics and much more.
The effects loop issue is a real bummer and I never noticed it because I wasn't using the HX Stomp in the way shown here. I normally run my delay and reverb pedals on the line out of the HX Stomp. I go out from my pedalboard into the Stomp so the problem shown here has never been an issue. My switcher doesn't do trails so buy having it outside the switcher I get trails from the pedals themselves (FYI pro tip for loop switchers without trails.) Recently I put them in the loop and was experiencing unwanted tone altering results. Some phase/comb filtering issue, too much highs when engaging the delay and reverb pedals.
The problems shown here are specific to the scenario shown here. It is strictly a short ms delay issue from the A/D D/A conversion going on and also whenever you have more than one dry signal going through the path and not using a pedal with a "kill dry" option. This problem can happen with any gear if these types of things are present in the signal chain. This is not exclusive to the HX. The effects loop is still useable in other scenarios. This doesn't happen when using the HX FX Loop for the 4CM with an actual amp and cab and certain pedals somewhere else in the chain. No problems when you have pedals before or after the HX.
This thing does everything. You can have two guitars into one amp level matched like a LP and Strat or send them to separate amps. You can have a guitar going to the guitar amp and a bass going to the bass amp. One person can supply the FX and control preset changes for two instruments in the band. When using this method the singer could just concentrate on singing and playing their instrument while someone else in the band makes the preset changes. This isn't just a laziness or convenience thing, it's also a "you're band is just starting out and y'all don't have lots of money for gear thing." Mono, stereo, wet/dry either direct "booooo" lol or real amps (because that's how I do it,) it does it all.
You can clone you're actual board like I did. You can then take that cloned board and level it out for different guitars and have several presets if needed. You can program one switch to do many things all at once with one press. A feature I have yet to see on other devices with the level of complexity as these little multi-tasking switches. This multi-task switch feature alone is game changing. If that isn't enough you can still use it on other instruments, keyboards and vocals. Yeah... for the price... no brainer, just order one already or look for that deal like how we got ours. They occasionally do $100 off the Stomp or Effects. I bought the Stomp and I already had $5000 worth of pedals, still worth it.
So now what do you think? If you made it this far I'm glad you did and you're definitely interested in an HX Stomp. I don't know it all but ask me anything about the HX Stomp and I'll try to help. Go back to the top of my post and re-read the questions I asked. Those are the best choices for those specific requirements that one might have.
Ahh. A fellow left-hander that plays guitar right-handed.
haha yep!
I've never noticed encountered any issues, but then I also run a SA Collider in the stereo loop to do all of my delays and reverbs and they are set parallell inside the box, so my A path is completely dry and only my B path is effected.
Yeah...that's a good set up...the only way to have your delays and reverbs both be outside of the stomp itself, so it doesn't have to do any internal processing between the 2
I have the collider too and never tried that. I run directly out of stomp into collider out to house via 1/4 to XLR and it works great. Ran into a boxy type sound in fx loop
This is why I stopped using it. But it happened on the main path.
Thats always an issue if you have parallel processing. Is there a second FX loop that you could set on path A to get the same delay on both paths?
In the X32 Mixer for example if you do parallel compression and use an inserted compressor that introduces latency, you need to put it on the dry channel as well to time align them.
If there is no second FX loop, the solution would be to have a delay compensation block where you can dial in the amount of latency. This is how the Waves LV1 Mixer handles external effects that my have latency by themself in addition to the DA/AD conversion.
Gotcha....I think if they put a slider adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
I have the same problem, only I’m listening with headphones and I’ve got a few different types including Breyer dynamic, sennheiser etc. it’s very annoying and I need to find a way of resolving the issue. As I have explained, I’m not running external fx and running parallel. It’s simply headphones into left in. Help!
Line6 NEEDS to fix this issue... They need to add some kind off automatx OR manual latency compensation functionality ...
I think if they put a slider adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
@@HeyWorshipLeader exactly
I doubt you can fix that because of how digital works. The fx loop will cause polarization and when it’s the doing that to both sides you don’t hear it. But if you have it in the fx loop you will. You would have to run both delay and reverb outside the stomp and do the parallel there.
I’m looking at the Morningstar ML10x (will replace the ML5) to be able to do that on my big board. Can wire it so I can run my reverb and delay anywhere in the chain and parallel or series. My flyrig is fine since I run all delays and reverbs on the stomp.
I think if they put a slider adjustment on the split or mixer block to account for the latency, each person could dial it in for their rig. I think that would solve it
@@HeyWorshipLeader it would just make things feel off as you play because they would only be able to make thing match the fx loops latency. I’m thinking a better processor would help with the latency. But that would mean new equipment.
There is another problem with FX loop. If the FX loop block is at the very end PAST the split AND merge block. So FX loop at the very end of path A. If you have ANYTHING at all in path b at all the FX loop is massively affected by it for some reason. Just try taking a simple volume block and dropping it to path B and back to path A while keeping the FX loop at the very end of path A. By all means it should NOT be affecting the FX loop that's way past the split and merge blocks... But for some reason if anything at all is in path B, it affects the FX loop at the end of path A. Can anyone tell me why??
I need to try this too
@@HeyWorshipLeader I'm really looking forward to the videos you make with the new Helix 3.50 update. I just hope one of your videos shows a solution to the FX loop problem I told you about. And I hope you can do a tutorial on how to make ambient pads with the 3 note generator, not with your guitar and looper. But just the 3 note generator and delays and reverbs. Hopefully the new Dynamic Ambient Reverb will make the pads better. I've been waiting on someone to do a tutorial. Then with snapshots you can change pad keys as long as you build the pads with the 3 note generator in the pitch/synth category.
@@mrfender5001 It's pretty simple, just build your chords in the 3 note generator parameters and tie them to snapshots.
@@olejason I understand that part. The problem I have is how to make it sound ambient. Which Reverb and delays to add. Where to put them iñ the chain. What settings to use to make it sound like a big lush worship pad. That's my issue.
What do you mean by "massively affected?" It sounds to me like normal behavior within the HX Stomp. When the signal is split, the volume is centered on both paths and then it merges at the mixer with a 3db boost. After you split hard pan L and R and remove the 3db boost from the mixer, DONE. What you're saying isn't a problem. I've got a full guitar signal, all the dynamics are there and it's level matched to the previous single path state. I'm using 4CM into a real amp and cab and using the HX Stomp's FX Loop R with my H9.
One other problem of the HX Stomp I found is that the volume of the amp models are too weak for them to be used as a pre-amp into the return of a tube amp's effects loop. It clips when you increase the amp model volume with the global output volume to be loud enough and match the amp's output like when playing straight in front through it only.
U need to change the output settings for that to work properly
@@boimesa8190 found a few tutorials and looks like I may need to try the full amp models (vs. just the preamps) and select line output (vs. instrument) to get a bigger volume.
@@tatelmarcelino4846 exactly
@@boimesa8190 Not exactly. I'll explain on the first post.
I'm currently using 4CM but when you disable the FX loop Left block, it is the same as just going into the amps FX Loop Return only. The pre-amps sound great in my setup and just as loud as my tube amp. No need to adjust the global volume levels, no clipping. I don't seem to have the issue you're describing when using the HX with my tube amp and cab. I did watch a HX video here and someone else described what you're saying. They were only referring to some of the older vintage type tweed amps and such sounding better with the full amp version. I however run the pre-amps only, channel volume usually around 4.0 or so and never maxing anything out as you said, you kind of have to and then you're clipping.
Some FX Loops expect to receive a line level signal and some an instrument level. Other FX Loops will have an FX Level button on the back with a -10 pad or a +4 boost for either an instrument level or line level signal so it wouldn't matter. Sometimes you can find this information in the manual but sometimes you won't. It is my understanding that when it isn't mentioned in the manual is because it accepts both "usually," that's why it isn't specifically mentioned.
Lastly and most importantly. If any of you are using the HX Stomp in 4CM with an amp and cab like I am and switching between real amp and HX pre-amp model presets, you will not be able to or "shouldn't" change the output to line level for more volume as mentioned in an earlier post. The front of your amp needs to receive an instrument level. The line level will be too hot for the front of the amp and you're whole tone/settings will sound different. You may even damage something if you're like me and you're volume or gain is maxed and you use the guitar's volume knob for your gain staging.
The HX Stomp doesn't let you choose line and instrument as in the full Helix units. Their you can have instrument level going to the front of the amp and line level to the amps FX Loop. On the HX Stomp it's one or the other.
Let me know what amps give you this issue and I'll try it with my setup.
Are you able to set your reverb pedal to kill dry? This what I do with my big sky and then mix dry signal in with fx loop block
Yes...and I'll try it soon, but that only will work as long as you don't put more than one pedal in the loop
I would have liked to hear this story in Japanese at length.
My English is immature.
Maybe I can figure out how to add the sub titles.
Use mono version of this delay after split. Maybe that will help.
I could try that....but I want stereo delays and reverbs...so not the solution I'm looking for
does this happen in mono
I didn't try a mono fx loop block but good question
I just got a stomp about a month ago and have been struggling with this since.
I want to do a wet/dry type signal path with wet effects in the loop or separate delay and reverb on path a and b but it sounds awful anytime I do it.
Forget about the FX in the loop for now and run them on the line out of the HX Stomp. You shouldn't have any problems using the onboard delays and reverbs and splitting paths, that stuff works just fine.
Maybe set the revelation to killdry. I had this happen on fractal too unless it was set to killdry
I'm going to try that next. And that will probably work as a workaround but not if you want to put more than one pedal in the loop...
@@HeyWorshipLeader for sure. I think in this particular scenario it’s all good. Definitely weird nonetheless!
is your effects loop set to parallel or series?
So much AD/DA conversion going on.
yep
@@HeyWorshipLeader do you get the same issue with other digital pedal, even with better ad-da converters?
This is one of the reasons i NEVER use the FX loop....
What are some of your other reasons? What else is there to know?
Man, report this video to Line 6. I think they would be happy to solve this. It’s really a bad issue.
Talking with some of them now
@@HeyWorshipLeader God help you to solve this, brother. Share with us the solution they give you about this if you can!
Yes - please share any update they give on this! Been driving me mad!
This guy is pretty cool for a Christian.
I could get along with him even though he’s a Jesus Freak
😊
Are you sure there isn’t any sin in your life? In my experience whenever I have a problem it’s because of a sin.
This might actually be the best answer! Much prayer!! haha
@@HeyWorshipLeader I’m glad you got that it was a joke lol