Love the love for Tak! The online community is super great and there are tons of tournaments for people of all skill levels. I don't get to play much in person, but I do play a ton on playtak. If you aren't on there already, you definitely should be.
What I like about Go is the smaller boards and handicap system means that an inexperienced player can still get something out of the game, whereas chess you can gen annihilated in 30 seconds
I know it’s not for everyone, but I enjoy the probability element of backgammon. It’s history like so many in this list is fascinating. Also given your list look up Wana and Abalone they seem in your wheel house.
I've never played Backgammon but it looks to be right up my alley. I just got into a bit of an argument on Reddit about the definition of abstract games with a popular Tak youtuber who will go unnamed. He made it very clear that abstract games must be perfect information while I held the belief that the definition is more broad and that it has to do more with their themeless nature. He rejected Backgammon as an abstract which still doesn't sit right with me. It is a topic for a future video perhaps! I love Wana btw. I'll have to check out Abalone. Thanks for the comment!
@@jonathanauffarth5646 I thought perfect information and randomness were two different things. Like scrabble the bag tiles are randomness, but the players hands are hidden information. So backgammon is perfect information (but random), whereas something like Stratego is nonrandom but has hidden information.
I've taken go a lot of places, I made my own folding board from a5 art board taped together so it folded into a thick novel size and out to a full sized board on one side, and a small practice board on the other. I managed to get a couple of people to play me, but mathematicians love the game. the first person to beat me (a completer beginner) was a mathematician. work out which friends are mathematicians, and ask them to play.
I really liked this list. I have played a lot of the ancient games so im trying to learn more contemporary ones. I love shogi, personally a lot more than chess so I strongly agree with what you said, amazing game. Go will always be my #1 board game but I would love to try tak. I would recommend trying xiangqi sometime, chinese chess. No one really likes it at first coming from western chess because it feels like a nerfed version but because the pieces are limited it relies on a much more clever and subtle play. Ends up being beautiful because of its limitations not in spite of them. Janggi is good too. I would recommend hive as well as its one of my favorites. But thanks for such a great list I have a lot of games to check out
TZAAR is my favorite of the whole project. Shobu is so good once you realize the roles your two groups separated by the rope must fill. I also have Tak but don't get to play as much as I should...
Ill play Go with you. The first time i sat down and tryed to understand the way it was played i actually got the same kind of goosbumps i do looking up at the pyramids in egypt . You can feel how ancient and sophistocated it is. And it is truely a journey of learning
Go is the best. Glad to see love for Tak which I agree is also great. Chess should definitely be on any best abstract list (your personal favorite is more subjective though).
"Best" is equally subjective. This could have been called "Best (in my opinion)...", but the parenthetical part is implied. I love abstracts, but I'm not crazy about Chess. I definitely appreciate it's historical significance, and its depth, I don't consider it one of the top 10 bests, as there are easily 10 that I'd put above it.
@offearthgames It's the best according to you. That's the same as your favourite, but it's catchier (as you said). For me, Hive and Homeworlds would be #1 and #2 respectively. Not sure about after that. Probably a GIPF game.
Thanks! You've brought some really cool games to my attention. I like this a lot, despite disagreeing with you a bit about Yinsh. I'm with the concensus on this one and find it the best of the GIPF project. It just has this incredible sense of game progression as the board slowly fills up, in addition to one of the best catch-up mechanisms I've ever seen. What's more, with a physical copy, Tzaar has a relatively tedious setup while Yinsh is all gameplay from the first second.
In the middle of watching right now and loving it. Many games here i have not tried yet. On pause with a phone call but feel compelled to say you should try Zertz; 4 ways to win, two ways to capture, timed end game with diminishing board. Brilliant game. Kris Burm is a genius.
…Despite never playing any of these games, I agree with almost everything you said. I’m kinda surprised that abalone and Arimaa is not here tho, but I still think you deserve a sub.
What an awesome video dude. I loved watching this. I already knew a few of the games but you've shown me some beauties! Tak looks incredible. We need to revive abstract games because like you said, they are the essence of the hobby. What are your thoughts on playing cards? Do you think we can play beautiful games using the classic deck of 52 or are they as boring as people perceive them to be? If you ever made a video about that I would definitely watch it! Thanks again for the game reccomendations!
Thank you so much for your comment. Have you seen my video “How to play Guinevere”? It’s an original solitaire card game using the standard-deck. It’s part of a series of games I’ve created called “Solitaire Legends”. I also have a video in the works called “Top 10 Standard-Deck Card Games”.
@@offearthgames Ah cool, I'll check that out! Sounds very interesting indeed, I love solitaire games. Ahh sick, I can't wait to see it! Keep up the good work!
I also love abstracts, so I enjoyed this list and the new games on it that I need to try out. I also strongly recommend anything by Dieter Stein (Urbino, Tintas, Fendo, Ordo, etc.) He and Chris Burm can do no wrong in their game designs., and his website tells the rules for each of them with great illustrations to help. Home Worlds by Loony Labs is also a surprisingly great game and really worth checking out. And one other one that gets a lot of play for us is Aqualin-slightly less elegant in that it’s not 100% perfect information, as there is a small tile pool to pull from that continually gets refilled to six, but it’s a fantastic, cut-throat game disguised in a cute package.
Had a lot to say but reading the other comments I now realize there is little point. I'll just say that this is a list of your own personal favorites, and clearly not a list of the ten greatest abstracts of all time A list of the top ten abstract strategy games of all time by more objective standards: the games are chosen for longevity, cultural significance, the existence of a large player base, the existence of a literature. In some cases, very closely related games are listed together. Chess Go Shogi Xiang Qi Checkers/Draughts Reversi/Othello GoMoku/Pente/Renju Mancala/Wari Fanorona Abalone
@@Ackthrice Well, I at least defined my criteria, which the original post did not. You are free to take issue with my criteria, of course, but the fact that I attempted to define "greatest" does make my list at least more intentionally objective.
I'll shoutout Simplexity. It's connect 4 with the additional wrinkle that each checker has a shape, in addition to its color. So you can win with 4 in a row of your color or your shape. And half of your checkers are the enemy shape. So as the game progresses you have to start making moves that sort of help your opponent (your color, their shape). Or you could just greedily play out all 10 of your shape and hope you win before then.
The king-needs-to-be-surrounded-on-four-sides rule for Hnefatafl is entirely based on a pretty bad mistranslation. In the only set of rules for a tafl-game we have the king is captured from two sides, as you play it, except for when he is on the center square (where he is captured from four) or next to it (where he is captured from 3, the center square itself being the "fourth" side). The mistranslated in question basically just left out the "when he is on the center square" part. In these rules the king also only need to get to the edge, not the corner squares. (The corner square rule was based purely on the fact the the corners are decorated on some historical boards, and as a way to balance the game more by people working from the translation that had the error mentioned above.) Even with that, as long as you capture the king from two-sides, the consensus seems to be that if anything the game very, very slightly favors the attacking side.
Abstracts being "boring" and "dry" falls flat with me. Hobby board games often go overboard with theme, either to the point where the gameplay completely lets the theme down, or the theme is just a cringy coat of paint that feels like pandering. Abstracts drop the veneer and expose the purity of gameplay and design underneath. There is a reason Go is described as beautiful. Perfection is achieved when there is nothing more to take away.
Foi muito interessante assistir este vídeo. Porque, se do 7° para frente eu já conhecia todos (talvez não o 4°), dos três primeiros (10° ao 8°) eu nunca tinha ouvido falar. E gostei muito de conhecê-los. Também fiquei muito intessado em conhecer Ka'a. Que também me pareceu ser um jogo atraente. Fora que, nos comentários, foram mencionados jogos que eu já conhecia e outro tanto que ouvi falar pela primeira vez. Certamente vou pesquisar sobre eles. O UA-cam acertou em me mostrar esse vídeo. PS: Você já jogou Camelot? E Annuvin? O que acha de Othello?
Love Camelot! Haven’t played the other games you mentioned. Just so you know, I’ve just posted a video for another original game Crux, if you’re interested. Thanks for the comment!
Primeiro vídeo que assisto do canal. Já deu para entender que você gosta de jogos abstratos (eu também!). E você parece conhecer muitos! Um verdadeiro especialista. Então fiquei curioso. Como você vê os jogos que o pessoal do hobby dos jogos modernos chama de abstratos? Considera-os como verdadeiramente abstratos? Quero dizer: fazem parte do mesmo time ou são outra coisa? Se interessa por eles? Estou falando de jogos como Valknut, Masai, The Climbers, Onitama, Glüx, Battle Sheeps, Sugar Gliders, Azul, Sagrada... Citei esses últimos apenas para você saber do que estou falando. Meu interesse mesmo é ouvir sua opinião sobre Valknut, Masai, e Tao Long.
Thank you for your comment. I’m replying very late but to answer your question I do not consider them to be the same thing. I feel an abstract game that I’m interested in is probably more aptly named a combinatorial 2-player game. Games like “Azul” do not follow my criteria: Simple rules, little to no theme, mainly a 2-player experience, minimalist components, focus on spatial reasoning, doesn’t necessarily exclude imperfect information or randomness.
Thank you for your comment. I’m replying very late but to answer your question I do not consider them to be the same thing. I feel an abstract game that I’m interested in is probably more aptly named a combinatorial 2-player game. Games like “Azul” do not follow my criteria: Simple rules, little to no theme, mainly a 2-player experience, minimalist components, focus on spatial reasoning, doesn’t necessarily exclude imperfect information or randomness.
A fantastic list. I too have been feeling the urge to evangelize abstracts lately. I find that most people who try them fall in love. I think you’re absolutely right about TZAAR being the best GIPF. Have you tried Lines of Action? Surprised to not see it on your list. Great video! If you’re ever in the Portland area, we have a weekly abstract night on Mondays.
Yes, I have played Lines of Action, but it was a long time ago. I think it's time to try again. Oh man, abstract night sounds awesome, too bad I don't live in the USA. Thanks for the comment.
One reason I don’t like shogi as much as international chess is that the drops disrupt the feeling of a military strategy game. I will say I think shogi and xiangqi are both prettier than chess with the minimalist presentation, although I never thought it made much sense to learn either one deeply as a westerner.
I actually talked to Nick Bentley about this back in 2020 and he told me he was in talks with a publisher for a while. Unfortunately, those plans fell through. I have an ugly printed laminated board, but at least it’s portable. I have plans to make a wood board soon. Here’s the pnp file: nickbentleygames.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/carnivores-board.pdf
That is high on my list of abstracts to get next. The top 3 games I most want to play right now are Qawale, Lyngk, and Canoe. Have you played it? Is it any good? Looks really beautiful.
I love Go, but it's a bit too hard and dry for me. Shogi feels like an improved Chess, it is more dynamic compare to Chess. The endgame of Shogi feels exciting, Chess is a bit underwhelming and frustrating (I hate the draw rule).
Another thing, Shogi is the only abstract game I've played that I am instantly got it in the first game. I don't have to play 10+ games to appreciate its excitement. The promotion rule make it somewhat video-game-like.
"Chess is boring, it's dry" hogwash! I think, there's a good reason, it's pretty much the most popular board game. I like shogi, but it doesn't have the same simplicity like chess.
The video is my opinion. It is not a statement that I think most will agree with. If you want to play Chess at a high level it’s all about memorizing openings and patterns. Shogi adds a tactical element by dropping in pieces that I find to be a more thrilling experience. If you think Chess is better, I wouldn’t try to argue, but hopefully my video explains why I prefer Shogi.
Discordo de que "basta" memorizar aberturas e padrões. Isso _também_ é necessário. Mas não é o suficiente. Quanto ao Shogi, jogá-lo em alto nível também exige muita memorização de aberturas e de padrões. Sei do que estou falando. Participo de um grupo de WhatsApp que é dedicado exclusivamente ao Shogi. A maioria das pessoas pensa que o Shogi exige menos memorização apenas porque estão pouco familiarizadas com ele. Recentemente assisti uma live no UA-cam de um evento onde, entre outras coisas, um mestre japonês enfrentou o campeão brasileiro. Eu estava no chat e a certa altura perguntei se a teoria de aberturas do Shogi é *mais extensa* que a do xadrez. Ou seja, vai mais longe. Eles achavam que sim. Mas, de novo, creio que só responderam isso porque estão pouco familiarizados com o xadrez. Comentaram que o estudo de aberturas no xadrez vai até o 10° lance (isso não é verdade pelo menos desde a década de 70), enquanto que no Shogi chega ao 20° lance (se contado da forma ocidental). Na verdade, em ambos os esportes se costuma estudar aberturas até o 20° lance atualmente. Então, nesse ponto, creio que a exigência é mais ou menos igual.
No entanto, acho que há uma consideração a mais a fazer. 🤔 As peças do Shogi são mais lentas. A maioria é de curto alcance. E o tabuleiro é maior. As peças demoram mais para entrarem em contato. Além disso, boa parte dos primeiros lances é gasta construindo o castelo. Enquanto no xadrez se pode rocar em um único lance. Disso tudo _talvez_ resulte que o estudo das aberturas no xadrez seja mais árduo e exigente do que no Shogi. Porque as hostilidades podem começar mais cedo. Enquanto que no Shogi a fase mais inicial da abertura é necessariamente de manobras e posicionamento. Mas realmente não sei dizer. Meu conhecimento de Shogi não é tão profundo assim.
@@offearthgamesI don't understand that take on chess. You are not playing chess at a high level so why does it matter than Grandmasters have to memorize openings? I think that the memorization is actually good for the game. There's a reason everyone still plays chess even though chess960 is an option.
Chinese Xiangqi has a similar problem to Shogi, the characters being represented with similar looking Kanji tiles. (To some other people, of course. I took a first in Oriental languages at Cambridge) not only that, but then the 'same' pieces on opposing sides can also be different! With the 'king' on black side being 將 or 将 (The General) and the red has 帥 or 帅 (The Marshall) other pieces are also different characters too, the elephant 象 for black and the minister 相 for red (Despite being the identical pieces, interestingly this is also because in Mandarin both elephant and Minister are pronounced "xiàng" sounding similar. Considering that all pieces are usually in a set of identical sizes just adds to the confusion. One of these days I may get around to making a western-friendly set. I'm sure I could come up with better designs for Soldier, Advisor, Elephant, Horse (or knight) Cannon and Chariot. Loved the video, by the way. we've already tried Hens & Chicks, and enjoyed that. Trike's 'board' looks like it is made from poker chips?
I have a feeling that this guy works in that he took a first in Oriental Languages at Cambridge in every conversation. (Btw I took a first in Oriental Languages at Cambridge.)
Bro likes shogi because white people don't know how to play, so he can always win. People that rank chess variants over the original just can't handle losing.
The fact shogi uses kanji is why it’s not more broadly played. People who play both usually enjoy shogi. It’s just less approachable than having traditional chess pieces. It also helps that Chess was invented in India and spread through the Middle East into Europe then around the world while Japan has historically been more isolationist.
Nice choices. If you like games with simple rules, I recommend Hex, with possibly the simplest rules of any interesting game, or Crossway, which uses a Go set. You might also like Quoridor.
Love Hnefetafl. Surprised not to see Hive on this list. I love abstract games and Hive is a gem.
Been playing Hive for years! Great game :)
Hive is amazing. I have the travel version, it needs more love.
Love the love for Tak! The online community is super great and there are tons of tournaments for people of all skill levels. I don't get to play much in person, but I do play a ton on playtak. If you aren't on there already, you definitely should be.
Love Playtak! I should recommend it in a standalone video!
@@offearthgames For sure! Especially with the Tak Open coming up next month.
Go is absolutely fantastic. It's one of my favorite games, and at one point it became a lifestyle thing for me.
What I like about Go is the smaller boards and handicap system means that an inexperienced player can still get something out of the game, whereas chess you can gen annihilated in 30 seconds
I know it’s not for everyone, but I enjoy the probability element of backgammon. It’s history like so many in this list is fascinating. Also given your list look up Wana and Abalone they seem in your wheel house.
Backgammon is a great game too 🙂👍🏻🎲
I've never played Backgammon but it looks to be right up my alley. I just got into a bit of an argument on Reddit about the definition of abstract games with a popular Tak youtuber who will go unnamed. He made it very clear that abstract games must be perfect information while I held the belief that the definition is more broad and that it has to do more with their themeless nature. He rejected Backgammon as an abstract which still doesn't sit right with me. It is a topic for a future video perhaps! I love Wana btw. I'll have to check out Abalone. Thanks for the comment!
@@jonathanauffarth5646 you should give Backgammon a try and decide if you like it. 😊
@@jonathanauffarth5646 I thought perfect information and randomness were two different things. Like scrabble the bag tiles are randomness, but the players hands are hidden information. So backgammon is perfect information (but random), whereas something like Stratego is nonrandom but has hidden information.
@@letsmakeit110 This is the correct assessment. You are right.
I've taken go a lot of places, I made my own folding board from a5 art board taped together so it folded into a thick novel size and out to a full sized board on one side, and a small practice board on the other.
I managed to get a couple of people to play me, but mathematicians love the game. the first person to beat me (a completer beginner) was a mathematician. work out which friends are mathematicians, and ask them to play.
“Work out which friends are mathematicians and ask them to play.” This is some sound advice
I really liked this list. I have played a lot of the ancient games so im trying to learn more contemporary ones. I love shogi, personally a lot more than chess so I strongly agree with what you said, amazing game. Go will always be my #1 board game but I would love to try tak. I would recommend trying xiangqi sometime, chinese chess. No one really likes it at first coming from western chess because it feels like a nerfed version but because the pieces are limited it relies on a much more clever and subtle play. Ends up being beautiful because of its limitations not in spite of them. Janggi is good too. I would recommend hive as well as its one of my favorites. But thanks for such a great list I have a lot of games to check out
Xianqi is great I just haven’t played it enough. I need to get a set soon. You have impeccable taste my friend.
Great video! I have learned about a bunch of games I've never heard of before. Many thanks!
I'm glad you enjoyed it! Thanks for the comment.
Great video. I could listen to you talk about games for hours.
Wow, thanks for the motivation! New top 10 coming soon 👍
TZAAR is my favorite of the whole project. Shobu is so good once you realize the roles your two groups separated by the rope must fill. I also have Tak but don't get to play as much as I should...
Tak is one of the best, after a long time like chess
Ill play Go with you. The first time i sat down and tryed to understand the way it was played i actually got the same kind of goosbumps i do looking up at the pyramids in egypt . You can feel how ancient and sophistocated it is. And it is truely a journey of learning
Abstracts definitely don't get enough love!
Go is the best. Glad to see love for Tak which I agree is also great. Chess should definitely be on any best abstract list (your personal favorite is more subjective though).
"Best" is equally subjective. This could have been called "Best (in my opinion)...", but the parenthetical part is implied.
I love abstracts, but I'm not crazy about Chess. I definitely appreciate it's historical significance, and its depth, I don't consider it one of the top 10 bests, as there are easily 10 that I'd put above it.
All top 10 lists on this channel will be my personal favorites, not necessarily “best”. It’s just makes for a catchier title.
@offearthgames It's the best according to you. That's the same as your favourite, but it's catchier (as you said).
For me, Hive and Homeworlds would be #1 and #2 respectively. Not sure about after that. Probably a GIPF game.
Love your list :) I play Go... badly LOL
You and me both!
Super informative video! Thank you very much.
Glad you enjoyed it!
SHOBU is fantastic... So new, yet feels like an ancient game
Very nice video, thanks for taking the time to share these gems. Kuddos from Colombia 👍
Thanks for watching!
beautiful video. well done
Thanks! You've brought some really cool games to my attention. I like this a lot, despite disagreeing with you a bit about Yinsh. I'm with the concensus on this one and find it the best of the GIPF project. It just has this incredible sense of game progression as the board slowly fills up, in addition to one of the best catch-up mechanisms I've ever seen. What's more, with a physical copy, Tzaar has a relatively tedious setup while Yinsh is all gameplay from the first second.
Fair enough!
In the middle of watching right now and loving it. Many games here i have not tried yet. On pause with a phone call but feel compelled to say you should try Zertz; 4 ways to win, two ways to capture, timed end game with diminishing board. Brilliant game. Kris Burm is a genius.
Really want to try Zertz and Lyngk. Thanks for the comment. Check out some of my original games while your here too!
Thanks for including timestamps.
You bet!
Refreshing list! Nice to see something different.
Glad you liked it! Hope you found something you've never heard of before!
4:04 The board is unique if you don't know Tak!
Wow, you’re right. Now I can play two of my favorite games on one board!
Quoridor
Abalone
Hive
Awesome list, I've been considering Tak for a while now. I'll hoping to save up some and get a quality set.
Love Quoridor!
I like your passion!
…Despite never playing any of these games, I agree with almost everything you said. I’m kinda surprised that abalone and Arimaa is not here tho, but I still think you deserve a sub.
What an awesome video dude. I loved watching this. I already knew a few of the games but you've shown me some beauties! Tak looks incredible. We need to revive abstract games because like you said, they are the essence of the hobby. What are your thoughts on playing cards? Do you think we can play beautiful games using the classic deck of 52 or are they as boring as people perceive them to be? If you ever made a video about that I would definitely watch it! Thanks again for the game reccomendations!
Thank you so much for your comment. Have you seen my video “How to play Guinevere”? It’s an original solitaire card game using the standard-deck. It’s part of a series of games I’ve created called “Solitaire Legends”. I also have a video in the works called “Top 10 Standard-Deck Card Games”.
@@offearthgames Ah cool, I'll check that out! Sounds very interesting indeed, I love solitaire games. Ahh sick, I can't wait to see it! Keep up the good work!
I also love abstracts, so I enjoyed this list and the new games on it that I need to try out. I also strongly recommend anything by Dieter Stein (Urbino, Tintas, Fendo, Ordo, etc.) He and Chris Burm can do no wrong in their game designs., and his website tells the rules for each of them with great illustrations to help. Home Worlds by Loony Labs is also a surprisingly great game and really worth checking out. And one other one that gets a lot of play for us is Aqualin-slightly less elegant in that it’s not 100% perfect information, as there is a small tile pool to pull from that continually gets refilled to six, but it’s a fantastic, cut-throat game disguised in a cute package.
Ranking Dieter Stein games is a great idea for a future video!
Had a lot to say but reading the other comments I now realize there is little point. I'll just say that this is a list of your own personal favorites, and clearly not a list of the ten greatest abstracts of all time
A list of the top ten abstract strategy games of all time by more objective standards: the games are chosen for longevity, cultural significance, the existence of a large player base, the existence of a literature. In some cases, very closely related games are listed together.
Chess
Go
Shogi
Xiang Qi
Checkers/Draughts
Reversi/Othello
GoMoku/Pente/Renju
Mancala/Wari
Fanorona
Abalone
Yes, they’re my personal favorites.
What a pretentious way to say that your favourites are somehow more objective 😂
@@Ackthrice Well, I at least defined my criteria, which the original post did not. You are free to take issue with my criteria, of course, but the fact that I attempted to define "greatest" does make my list at least more intentionally objective.
Shogi!! Love that it made this list!!
It's so good!
Would have loved to have seen even a minimal demo of each game. Showing a static view and narrating just isn't the same.
Subscribe for more low effort!
Great list. Love Tak, but I personally believe Go is better. Shobu is also quite an amazing game.
Twixt is a very "on the edge of my seat" type game. Every move could win or lose the game.
I'll shoutout Simplexity. It's connect 4 with the additional wrinkle that each checker has a shape, in addition to its color. So you can win with 4 in a row of your color or your shape. And half of your checkers are the enemy shape. So as the game progresses you have to start making moves that sort of help your opponent (your color, their shape). Or you could just greedily play out all 10 of your shape and hope you win before then.
4:50 Reminds me of Halma.
Wow! Excellent
Big fan of your designs! Thanks for the comment.
Tak is soo good. Love it
The king-needs-to-be-surrounded-on-four-sides rule for Hnefatafl is entirely based on a pretty bad mistranslation. In the only set of rules for a tafl-game we have the king is captured from two sides, as you play it, except for when he is on the center square (where he is captured from four) or next to it (where he is captured from 3, the center square itself being the "fourth" side). The mistranslated in question basically just left out the "when he is on the center square" part. In these rules the king also only need to get to the edge, not the corner squares. (The corner square rule was based purely on the fact the the corners are decorated on some historical boards, and as a way to balance the game more by people working from the translation that had the error mentioned above.) Even with that, as long as you capture the king from two-sides, the consensus seems to be that if anything the game very, very slightly favors the attacking side.
Very informative thanks!
Abstracts being "boring" and "dry" falls flat with me. Hobby board games often go overboard with theme, either to the point where the gameplay completely lets the theme down, or the theme is just a cringy coat of paint that feels like pandering. Abstracts drop the veneer and expose the purity of gameplay and design underneath. There is a reason Go is described as beautiful. Perfection is achieved when there is nothing more to take away.
Tak is absolutely deserve the 1st Place!
You should check out Makruk AKA Thai Chess. I love the idea of Go, but don’t have the time to master it.
Foi muito interessante assistir este vídeo. Porque, se do 7° para frente eu já conhecia todos (talvez não o 4°), dos três primeiros (10° ao 8°) eu nunca tinha ouvido falar. E gostei muito de conhecê-los. Também fiquei muito intessado em conhecer Ka'a. Que também me pareceu ser um jogo atraente.
Fora que, nos comentários, foram mencionados jogos que eu já conhecia e outro tanto que ouvi falar pela primeira vez. Certamente vou pesquisar sobre eles.
O UA-cam acertou em me mostrar esse vídeo.
PS: Você já jogou Camelot? E Annuvin? O que acha de Othello?
Love Camelot! Haven’t played the other games you mentioned. Just so you know, I’ve just posted a video for another original game Crux, if you’re interested. Thanks for the comment!
Primeiro vídeo que assisto do canal. Já deu para entender que você gosta de jogos abstratos (eu também!). E você parece conhecer muitos! Um verdadeiro especialista.
Então fiquei curioso. Como você vê os jogos que o pessoal do hobby dos jogos modernos chama de abstratos? Considera-os como verdadeiramente abstratos? Quero dizer: fazem parte do mesmo time ou são outra coisa? Se interessa por eles?
Estou falando de jogos como Valknut, Masai, The Climbers, Onitama, Glüx, Battle Sheeps, Sugar Gliders, Azul, Sagrada...
Citei esses últimos apenas para você saber do que estou falando. Meu interesse mesmo é ouvir sua opinião sobre Valknut, Masai, e Tao Long.
Thank you for your comment. I’m replying very late but to answer your question I do not consider them to be the same thing. I feel an abstract game that I’m interested in is probably more aptly named a combinatorial 2-player game. Games like “Azul” do not follow my criteria: Simple rules, little to no theme, mainly a 2-player experience, minimalist components, focus on spatial reasoning, doesn’t necessarily exclude imperfect information or randomness.
Thank you for your comment. I’m replying very late but to answer your question I do not consider them to be the same thing. I feel an abstract game that I’m interested in is probably more aptly named a combinatorial 2-player game. Games like “Azul” do not follow my criteria: Simple rules, little to no theme, mainly a 2-player experience, minimalist components, focus on spatial reasoning, doesn’t necessarily exclude imperfect information or randomness.
Ka'a looks great
Thanks for saying so. You should watch my video “How to play Ka’a”. Also, you can download the files on boardgamegeek.com.
A fantastic list. I too have been feeling the urge to evangelize abstracts lately. I find that most people who try them fall in love.
I think you’re absolutely right about TZAAR being the best GIPF. Have you tried Lines of Action? Surprised to not see it on your list.
Great video! If you’re ever in the Portland area, we have a weekly abstract night on Mondays.
Yes, I have played Lines of Action, but it was a long time ago. I think it's time to try again. Oh man, abstract night sounds awesome, too bad I don't live in the USA. Thanks for the comment.
One reason I don’t like shogi as much as international chess is that the drops disrupt the feeling of a military strategy game. I will say I think shogi and xiangqi are both prettier than chess with the minimalist presentation, although I never thought it made much sense to learn either one deeply as a westerner.
Your reasons for disliking it are my exact reasons for loving it. 😊
Anyone know where you could get circle of life?
I actually talked to Nick Bentley about this back in 2020 and he told me he was in talks with a publisher for a while. Unfortunately, those plans fell through. I have an ugly printed laminated board, but at least it’s portable. I have plans to make a wood board soon.
Here’s the pnp file:
nickbentleygames.files.wordpress.com/2016/12/carnivores-board.pdf
i love shogi but i prefer chess pawns over the shogi ones
Yes, chess pieces look great. But these western-style Shogi pieces look pretty cool too: www.amazon.com/Japanese-Chess-Shogi-Pieces-Arrows/dp/B077D5WQNF
@@offearthgames those are nice but I ment the way the pawn operates. I like how they move and attack.
@@tylermaitland8767 haha oh okay gotcha.
You should play Homeworlds by Looney Labs. Abstract and super fun!
You forget the pits and peebles "Mancala" typ games as Bao and Oware.
TRIKE
Such a great game :)
Con-hex really should be on this list.
War Chest is the top abstract game 100%
can you recommend any abstract strategy games that can be played by more then two ppl?
Azul, sagrada, hey that's my fish, war chest
Quoridor, Talat, Yavalath, Homeworlds, Martian Chess are all great!
There's a Brazilian game called trench. Check that out.
I’ve heard of it. Looks amazing!
Does Mancala not count?
Tak seems to be hard to obtain in UK
My first set was hand made. The. I bought a fancy one off of the world builders website.
Have you played qawale? What do you think?
That is high on my list of abstracts to get next. The top 3 games I most want to play right now are Qawale, Lyngk, and Canoe. Have you played it? Is it any good? Looks really beautiful.
I love Go, but it's a bit too hard and dry for me. Shogi feels like an improved Chess, it is more dynamic compare to Chess. The endgame of Shogi feels exciting, Chess is a bit underwhelming and frustrating (I hate the draw rule).
Another thing, Shogi is the only abstract game I've played that I am instantly got it in the first game. I don't have to play 10+ games to appreciate its excitement. The promotion rule make it somewhat video-game-like.
"Chess is boring, it's dry" hogwash!
I think, there's a good reason, it's pretty much the most popular board game. I like shogi, but it doesn't have the same simplicity like chess.
The video is my opinion. It is not a statement that I think most will agree with. If you want to play Chess at a high level it’s all about memorizing openings and patterns. Shogi adds a tactical element by dropping in pieces that I find to be a more thrilling experience. If you think Chess is better, I wouldn’t try to argue, but hopefully my video explains why I prefer Shogi.
Discordo de que "basta" memorizar aberturas e padrões. Isso _também_ é necessário. Mas não é o suficiente.
Quanto ao Shogi, jogá-lo em alto nível também exige muita memorização de aberturas e de padrões. Sei do que estou falando. Participo de um grupo de WhatsApp que é dedicado exclusivamente ao Shogi. A maioria das pessoas pensa que o Shogi exige menos memorização apenas porque estão pouco familiarizadas com ele.
Recentemente assisti uma live no UA-cam de um evento onde, entre outras coisas, um mestre japonês enfrentou o campeão brasileiro. Eu estava no chat e a certa altura perguntei se a teoria de aberturas do Shogi é *mais extensa* que a do xadrez. Ou seja, vai mais longe. Eles achavam que sim. Mas, de novo, creio que só responderam isso porque estão pouco familiarizados com o xadrez. Comentaram que o estudo de aberturas no xadrez vai até o 10° lance (isso não é verdade pelo menos desde a década de 70), enquanto que no Shogi chega ao 20° lance (se contado da forma ocidental).
Na verdade, em ambos os esportes se costuma estudar aberturas até o 20° lance atualmente. Então, nesse ponto, creio que a exigência é mais ou menos igual.
No entanto, acho que há uma consideração a mais a fazer. 🤔 As peças do Shogi são mais lentas. A maioria é de curto alcance. E o tabuleiro é maior. As peças demoram mais para entrarem em contato.
Além disso, boa parte dos primeiros lances é gasta construindo o castelo. Enquanto no xadrez se pode rocar em um único lance. Disso tudo _talvez_ resulte que o estudo das aberturas no xadrez seja mais árduo e exigente do que no Shogi. Porque as hostilidades podem começar mais cedo. Enquanto que no Shogi a fase mais inicial da abertura é necessariamente de manobras e posicionamento.
Mas realmente não sei dizer. Meu conhecimento de Shogi não é tão profundo assim.
@@offearthgamesI don't understand that take on chess. You are not playing chess at a high level so why does it matter than Grandmasters have to memorize openings?
I think that the memorization is actually good for the game. There's a reason everyone still plays chess even though chess960 is an option.
Why is no one talking about Cavendish?!
Ooooh never heard of it. I’ll look into it! How did you discover it? Looks like an older game.
No way some of these games are better than chess or draughts
Chinese Xiangqi has a similar problem to Shogi, the characters being represented with similar looking Kanji tiles.
(To some other people, of course. I took a first in Oriental languages at Cambridge) not only that, but then the 'same' pieces on opposing sides can also be different! With the 'king' on black side being 將 or 将 (The General) and the red has 帥 or 帅 (The Marshall) other pieces are also different characters too, the elephant 象 for black and the minister 相 for red (Despite being the identical pieces, interestingly this is also because in Mandarin both elephant and Minister are pronounced "xiàng" sounding similar. Considering that all pieces are usually in a set of identical sizes just adds to the confusion.
One of these days I may get around to making a western-friendly set. I'm sure I could come up with better designs for Soldier, Advisor, Elephant, Horse (or knight) Cannon and Chariot.
Loved the video, by the way. we've already tried Hens & Chicks, and enjoyed that. Trike's 'board' looks like it is made from poker chips?
I have a feeling that this guy works in that he took a first in Oriental Languages at Cambridge in every conversation.
(Btw I took a first in Oriental Languages at Cambridge.)
Are you from same country as Boxed Meeples?
WTF there is an ai generated video summary now?
?
Shobu is, in my opinion, much more complex than chess.
shogi is OP and criminally unknown outside of Japan
Totally agree!
Shogi isn’t an abstract game, and xiangqi is better anyway.
How is Shogi not an abstract? I do love Xiangqi but not as much as Shogi.
@@offearthgames The same way chess isn’t an abstract, a narrative theme is featured.
Wow, that’s a wild take. Thanks for stopping by!
You cant put shogi over chess dude its literally just a worse version of it.
Piece promotion and drop-ins make it way more fun in my opinion. I prefer Shogi hands down.
Bro likes shogi because white people don't know how to play, so he can always win. People that rank chess variants over the original just can't handle losing.
The fact that shogi is ONLY played in Japan and by racists who want to be Japanese, and Chess is played by EVERYONE should be enough.
You can't be serious. What am unhinged take. Anyone who plays shogi is a racist...?
The fact shogi uses kanji is why it’s not more broadly played. People who play both usually enjoy shogi. It’s just less approachable than having traditional chess pieces. It also helps that Chess was invented in India and spread through the Middle East into Europe then around the world while Japan has historically been more isolationist.
Nice choices. If you like games with simple rules, I recommend Hex, with possibly the simplest rules of any interesting game, or Crossway, which uses a Go set. You might also like Quoridor.
I prefer the Game of Y over Hex and also I love Quoridor that's very high on my list. Never heard of Crossway, thanks for mentioning it!
@@jonathanauffarth5646 Greetings fellow Jonathan. Do you prefer Kadon Y, where each corner has three neighbors, or "plain" triangular Y?
@@jonathanbush6197 The Kadon Y is the only version I've played it seems. Love it!
Quoridor is fantastic.
You may like Hive. Give it a try if you haven't already :)
I like Hive. Used to love it. I think I’ve played it so much it began to feel a little samey. Design wise it’s one of the best.