I finally finished your book "Shadow of the Conqueror" and thought it was great and I can't wait to get the next one. It was a true fantasy world with very good world building done in it.
See, i liked it much to, and i only have one major biff with it, story wise. Surprisenly enough i figure it out when watching Arcane, if you belive it. I feel like i shoud despise Daylen with my very heart, but i dont. Becouse i only heard about him doing horrible stuff, but i only saw him doing good, so i can bring myself to hate him in any way. And if big question is "Can be such a person be forgiven or redeemed?", then it hard for me to even consider saying "no". Wile in Arcane i very much HATE Jinx, no half wording here. After skyship murdres i was expecting of writers to make her contradictory and complex, but no. She just straight up evil. Evil murderous psychopath. They show it clearly and colorfullly. Just as i cant hate Daylen because of lack of evil, after the episode 3 i cant sympathize with her AT ALL. p.s. forgive the grammar.
@@sharemation5339 *possible Spoilers* sorry I don't know if you are supposed to hate Daylin with everything you have. Daylin was a good man that was corrupted by hatred, and further corrupted by power. His servants and underlings kept him in the dark of many of his crimes (even if he knew in his heart about them). Daylin was a good man most of his life but did very evil things trying to do "good" and his biggest crime was not allowing someone to give him opposing opinions which we all need to keep us from veering off into insanity and evil. Idk those are my thoughts on Daylin.
@@DracoOoOoOo yeah, though I’m kind of stuck at a point in the audiobook and I don’t know when I’ll when I will go back to listening and maybe finishing it, so no spoilers! Also, I just need an album of the knights singing for Christmas
As for those woke moments, paraphrasing Peter Jackson who said in an interview, we didn't want to send our message through the movie, we wanted to tell Tolkien. That's where every story ends.
Oz dragon is the Lan. Its right there in the name. Lan Mandragoran. Lan Man Dragon an. Which means that he's the male dragon. However there is still mystery who is the female dragon. Moirane is actually keeping it secret from the lan. The whole ploy with the boys is just elaborate plan to get Lan started on the path of the dragon without telling him.
I love the scene in the novels where Nynaeve is watching a full circle of 13 using a Sa'angreal heal someone, and she thinks "I can't channel half of that".
In the books, Rand had heard about a filthy man being called The Beggar, roaming Camlyn. When Rand joins the crowd to see Logain The Beggar spots him and gives chase. Rand runs through the city trying to avoid the filthy man, and gets lost. He sees a nearby wall and climbs it, just able to see Logain in the distance. Logain is standing tall and proud, Rand is surprised at how cool and commanding he looks.
This is mentioned later on by Logain, who could recognise ta'veren by a light surrounding them. He finds irony in being locked up while Rand blazes like the sun. They reuse this line in the show when Logain sees Nyneave but it has less significance to his character.
@@adeptronic Yeah. That and The Eye of the World being brought up convinces Moiraine that the boys are ta'veren. It's more believable than rumours of ta'veren somehow reaching Lan without anyone in the Two Rivers hearing about it.
@@charlestruppi7793 no he doesn’t. Logain sees him, but it only mentions him making eye contact with the crowd. In fact, in the first book, it doesn’t even imply that he sees Rand.
In the books you have to touch people to heal them and you have to actually know what you are healing and how. You can't just cast Mass Cure Wounds and everyone within 30 ft regains hitpoints.
Not sure about touching, but (in the early books) they had only a general healing weave, that could heal nearly every wound or disease. DId they really need to know about the wounds?
From memory the energy needed to heal someone comes from their own body as well, so everyone being healed in this show and being ready to keep going as if nothing happened is wrong. In the book if someone is already really weak then healing them could actually kill them as a result.
@@lastarnagas2090 I can’t remember but I think maybe Nynaeve discovers a new healing weave that allows her to heal without touching along with healing stilling and gentling.
It's not just Rand who has problems with fighting a woman, its also Mat and Perrin. All these characters kill women when they have to, but they try to avoid fighting them whenever they can. That why I always considered it something that has to do with growing up in the two rivers.
Yep you can even see that after she's killed they felt bad for her, and she didn't reveal herself, she naively tried to get him to like her and got mad when he didn't show interest.
Regarding Aes Sedai deferral to the more powerful - that ONLY applies to a full sister. They do not differ to wilders, novices, etc. Once they become a sister, their power determines their standing.
Regarding breaking or saving the world, RJ had said one of his inspirations for this story was a twist on the chosen one trope. "What if someone told you that it's your job to save the world, but in so doing you'll go insane, cause immeasurable suffering, and die?" (paraphrased)
You guys keep asking, "Did they make this change because of agenda or to improve the story?" The show-runner has been very blunt and upfront that it is for the agenda. He says something like, "I am a feminist and I want the show to be that from a modern perspective." (can't remember exact words, but something like that in an interview). Because he has been so upfront about it I am actually less annoyed by it, but yeah the changes are very much for his agenda.
SHAD, that castle is a real place in a Spanish town called Segovia. It's the Alcázar (fortress) in the old walled part of the city. Segovia also has a beautiful Roman aqueduct. I served my mission there!
One thing i only noticed when i rewatched this episode is that Liandrin says its easier to break out of a shield than it is to maintain a shield on someone, which as far as i remember is directly oposite of how shielding worked in the books.
LOL If that's what she said, that's asinine. That's like a prison being made out of play-doh... easier to break out than hold someone in. Idiots!!! These "writers" shouldn't be allowed to flip BURGERS they're that stupid. And they're in charge of deciding the way this show plays out????
I'll have to watch it again, cus I thought she was saying it was easier to GENTLE him than keeping him shielded. Once gentled, he can't touch the Power anymore, where shielding can fail....spectacularly.
In the books, the shield is also placed between the channeler and saidin/saidar, severing the channeler from the source. IIRC, the exact wording from the books is that a shield slides in between the channeler and the One Power. So it's more of a mental/psychological shield than a real physical shield. Hence Logain shouldn't be able to weave until after he mentally broke through the shield and would be able to seize saidar again. This in turn makes the whole sequence with the axe rather nonsensical and completely counter to established lore.
"He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slopes of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!" That quote is from Gitara Moroso, an Aes Sedai with the gift of Foretelling, at the moment of the Dragon's rebirth. And the real kicker of all of this is that Moiraine is present when this prophecy is first spoken.
@@nathanrathbun2619 what I don't get about that is in episode 1 Moiraine says exactly that. She directly tells Nynaeve she's too old to be person she's searching for.
@@kevinadams5592 I like your suggestion! Maybe have a far out shot of a snow covered mountain as the Aes Sedai starts giving the prophecy, that zooms in on a baby crying in the snow, then snaps to a young Moiraine in the White Tower?
Now I'm looking forward to the dynamic of Nynaeve denying she channeled as the other aes sedai decide she needs to go to the white tower, like the black knight in the Holy Grail denying his limbs got cut off...."you just channeled...you need to go to the tower..." "no I didn't, we need to find my friends" " But you healed everyone!!!" " it was just a scratch!!"
About Liandrin's conversation with Nynaeve. Rewatch episode 1 where Moraine is questioning Nynaeve in the pool. If she had just asked "how old are you?" "What is this pool used for" "did your teacher know any Aesedai" Nynaeve would have closed up. By asking 'dumb' queastions and makkng 'false' conclusions and being corrected Moraine got more info than Nynaeve intended. Liandrin tries the same tactic but Nynaeve isn't falling for that trick twice.
But are they conjuring new things into existence, or compacting air to the point where it becomes visible as that object? This was never clear to me when reading the books.
@@Lttlemoi Siuan conjures a sword (an actual sword made of metal) to demonstrate to Egwene and Nynaeve how the power works when they meet her for the first time.
@@LOWBORN-the-LOATHSOME It's actually made from a weave of air, and even gives off waves of cold (kinda like the shardblades in the Stormlight Archives). I just recently reread that part.
Love it, it means that shad at least is a true fan of the books and that the show is showing enough interesting (good and bad) things to support the runtime
@@crazycoonass666 Yes, but the whole backstory of that people is that they should not exist under normal circumstances, their whole culture is driven by the needs of the Pattern.
logan was nerfed in the series, from the books he is extremely powerful and needed 6 sisters blocking him at all times. And the shield works differently, in books it cuts the person's access to the source, in the series it creates a restriction area.
@@mr_noob5931 Yes, Logain is extremely powerful. But I don't think they nerfed or diminished him yet. The Dragon Reborn had the benefit of the Dragon in his head telling him what to do and how patient to be. No, Logain to his credit was being extremely patient as he knew he could burst their shield at any time. But he was surrounded by Aes Sedai, more than enough to suppress him should he break loose. So he waited until an opportunity came, which did come when HIS dragonsworn came to rescue him. But Morgaine as surprised as she was, still wasn't so impressed by his strength that she thought he was the one. We'll see if I'm right. But I'd out money down that I am.
@@DEFKNIGHT Maybe, but 2 woman shouldn’t been capable of doing anything to him. Even Nynaeve is waaaayyy below him in term of power. In fact in the books men are far stronger than women in term of power, but woman can link, men cannot without the help of a woman.
Kinda cuts off access, you can still draw on the power but it won't reach you, you can't touch it unless you are more powerful and the amount of power you summon just blasts the shield away, there were other methods to remove shields especially if formed by numerous linked sisters and thus much tougher even for powerhouses
@@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878 In fact this is my problem with the end of the episode. At some point the book are pretty much clear when compare loghain power to Nynaeve. Loghain could cut through Nynaeve shield like a hot knife through butter. Consider the gap in power Loghain shouldn’t have been that impressed by her capacity
" What if we have already gentled the Dragon?_ " was asked by an non-Red; but Sisters don't generally entirely trust other Ajahs (especially the Reds whose agenda is quite strong) . So it makes some sense for the fear/concern to be raised in private...
The caravan may have been travelling to Tar Valon, but that doesn't mean you would always be traveling in a beeline towards your destination. Favorable terrain or traditional paths may have them going a slightly roundabout way, or as you point out, the sun was going down and they may have just been heading towards a good camping spot.
I second this idea. I see it a lot in lord of the rings as i am now reading the books. Sometimes with a freaking mountain in the way or just to find a good path as opposed to walking vertically up a hill detours have to be made.
Sisters from the green ajah helping the red hunt down a false dragon is so weird to me. In the books the red and green ajahs don't get along. Hunting male channelers is the primary mission of the red ajah, but there seem to be more green sisters here than red. It seems like the show just needed to introduce us to Alanna, but they were skipping the part where they meet in the books.
To me having the green and the red together made sense because logain had an army! They knew it was a possibility that they hat to fight a large group of armed men and they brought the battle ajah for back up.
It makes perfect sense for me, after all the green ajah is the battle ajah, when the a false dragon has an army than the green ajah is needed. It is also stated in the books that when Rand watches Logain being tranported through Caemlyn that warders are escorting the wagon and scanning the onlookers. As the reds have no warders those must be of another ajah and the green makes the most sense.
"Seem to be more green sisters here than red" Uhm... we see an establishing shot with 4 Red sisters, and we only see Alanna and that other Green sister. I'm not good at math, but 4 is a bigger number than 2.
The Prophesies of the Dragon have an issue brought up in the books, and it's that The Dark One isn't directly effected by The Wheel's influence. The prophesies only tell of how the heroes can defeat it and it's mentioned that because the DO can influence the Pattern then prophesy can only describe a future where "he" loses. Because The Dragon is the one to defeat it that makes him a sort of weak point, which is why it's possible for the Aes Sedai to have ruined everything by gentling him. The prophesies aren't meant to be a guaranteed win, and even if they were The Dragon is still meant to break the world which the show might be messing up by removing the ambiguity.
It is still there. I feel it, because of what is still there, like saidin and the taint. If they were interested in changing it, those two things, and the Breaking history would not be there at all.
@@fenixchief7 Placing those things in means the history is there. Those aspects can only be because of the events happening, such as the war. They have only done one season of the show. The story so far is no different from the book. It is just that the Prologue is not present, but the Age Of Legends is. Implicit by the fact the season was pretty much book ended by Paaran Disen in different stages of its history. The difference being, no one will recognize the city in Rand's lifetime. Even he after gaining LTT's memories, will not recognize the city if he passed through it. I know that Demandred, since he laid siege to it at the end of the War, would not recognize it if he went there after being freed either. The show is clearly going to lean into the unreliable narrator far more than the books did.
I totally got Jesus vibes from Logain too lol. It's not just the hair and the robes but also h his zen attitude and his "they are afraid" and "even my enemies can join me" lines
I watched the first 3 episodes and, as a major WoT fan, was so disgusted that I've already checked out of watching the rest. But I like Shad so I started watching these ...
@@danielschroder5733 Notice he didn't say she gets intoxicated, just that she got emotional. Aes Sedai do share an emotional link with their warder. She would likely be able to sense the change in his emotional state when he was drinking and respond to it. It's clearly not on the same level with the exception you're talking about.
@@danielschroder5733 Well, you could say that Lan was drinking because he barely escaped a Shadowspawn raid, a Whitecloak encounter, then Shadar Logoth before coming to this camp. All of that would put massive pressure on many Warders we saw there if they experienced those events. Because he knows that what he and Moiraine are dealing with the Emonds Field group, Logain is a drop of water to the tempest that he really knows is coming. If any of those Aes Sedai and Warders were aware of those developments, they would arrest Lan and Moiraine out of shear terror on the spot. Logain would be an afterthought, even if he was shielded.
@@danielschroder5733 Neither did the show show warders getting overly drunk. He said 'that drink' as in one of them, a little something to help ease the tension when he's stressed out. Most people wouldn't notice, but Moraine senses it. And knowing him like a wife knows her husband of 20 years, she understands this as a signal of how much stress he was under and feels the need to comfort him. Good writing.
Shad - it’s Warders not “Wardens” 😜 You’re doing amazingly well for someone pulling from memory of a old previous reading but you’ve made quite a number of small but important mistakes that I think warrants you reading the books again to refresh your knowledge if you’re going to continue reviewing and doing in depth break downs of each episode. Either way keep up the great work, your watch over the WoT is much appreciated 😎🍻
He says "Thom Maryland" what do you expect 😉 I agree, he would do well to re-read the books. They're little mistakes, but it's a bit odd when he's presenting himself as "I've read the books so I know"
Moraine DOES recognize Nynauve's power, it's how she realizes that the young "girl" was the village Wisdom. However, like most Aea Sedi, Moraine had no interest in a wilder that was past the dangerous stage in her power.
@@Ashtor1337 Not quite, several Aes Sedai were previously wilders. Its just that they look down on wilders as long as they can't channel at will. Also the tower usually doesn't recruit beyond the age of 18, so most wilders are probably beyond that age when discovered.
@@gildor8866 , you just said what I said. Also those Wilders that joined the tower were not treated vary well untill they were able to get through thier block. They may have been to the tower but if they couldn't learn they were sent away.
@@darkshadow851 , yeah. They are look down on when they join the tower and are treated horribly. Then if they can't get threw the blocks they are sent away...
Im glad Shad still shows nuance on his review, today its become very common for political people to blindly hate or love things in absolutes. "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you do not become a monster yourself..."
Also in the books, when Rand and Mat are in one of the villages on their way to Caemlyn, they’re shown to their room and then the dark friends come after them where they’re trapped. Then Rand uses the power and zaps them. It’s a thrilling scene and would have been amazing on screen.
I've been thinking about this too. And I belive they are waiting to reveal rand in the last episode. Where he will use balefire and everyone will be freaked out by him
My favourite moment so far has to be the scene where Liandrin is attacking Moraine to Nynaeve and you're thinking "Oh God" They're gonna have Nynaeve believe everything Liandrin says because she already despises Moraine herself" Then Lan comes in, Liandrin leaves and Nynaeve's first words to Lan are literally "That woman's a Snake"! It's brilliant because it shows that Nynaeve is wise and doesn't give in to Liandrin's lies despite her own loathing of Moraine.
You guys are just pumping out videos this week! Love the content and fun (and sometimes SERIOUS) discussions, even if I don't always agree with every little thing
02:11:51 Shad, as far as I am aware, "shielding someone off from the source" in WoT blocks the user from being able to access the source of power. It's not an area around the user that restricts the use of his power - rather it strictly blocks his access to the power. Hence, if Logain was shielded from the source, he shouldn't be able to channel at all. Hence he cannot channel within the shield to stop the axes.
Indeed, while the channeler can push against the shield and even break through, they're not channeling within the shield. I get that they have to find a way to visualize the shield but that was a bit much.
Technically a shield does nothing if it hasn't snapped into place, which if memory serves, they were trying to reshield him, so the shield in the show is slightly more powerful than in the books, but the restricted area is completely not book canon. He should have been able to channel freely until it snapped or slid into place. But it could just be a visual way to show the desperate struggle to fight off being shielded before being cut off, it's how I have to interpret it to make sense given book knowledge. But probably just one more inaccuracy on the growing mound of em.
@Alex Schamenek I wasn't thinking of it as in place until it visually settled into the skin. Since it seems to operate differently than in the books, it's hard to say what they consider in place for the show. I think it would have been better to show a tendril of power dancing and probing along the outside of the shield trying to find its way to Logain, as the Power is an external force and not internal. I don't agree with how they chose to depict Shielding, I'm just trying to make it make sense in my head compared to book canon. Ironically, all it takes is a strand of spirit to cut the weave before it cuts you off, which would be easy enough for someone who self taught themselves how to use the power for both offense and healing. However since men cannot see women's weaves, it does make it much harder to interrupt their weaves. I worry about how some of the later frantic battles between epic channelers will be translated to screen with so many simultaneous weaves and countering weaves before they can be completed.
I think in the show version the shield is not fully set until it settles on the skin. So it starts by restricting the channeling to a bubble then closing into his body to fully cut him off. This is definitely a difference from how it works in the books. In books if you are shielded you can try to get out of the shield but you aren't doing anything else with the power.
It’s hard not to have the madness of Elan (Ba’alzamon / Ishamael) taunting the boys in the dreams. It’s such a fun character moment especially with him speaking to them as though they are Lews Therin
These are the best Wheel of Time TV show discussions I've seen online. I deeply relate Shad's position. I share his level of disillusion that want's to believe the show will be good. No other content like this online. Most others seem to be lying shills.
There was a line that moraine said, where she can't see the weaves a man makes and it being an odd experience, I think she says it to Kerene Sedai. Basically confirms separate halves.
It actually wasn’t implied that Alanna was banging her warders in the books,it was Myrelle. The rumor was that she had married all three of her warders. The books did mention that some greens do get married.
Shad, didn't the gleeman say in this episode that the Dark One corrupted the power so that men can't use it safely? It's true that the red ajah have yet to acknowledge that, but it has been mentioned that it's not the fault of the men.
A character in that world, especially a darkfriend, could always think, "The men f***ed around trying to defeat the Dark One and found out" and still blame them for their own predicament.
Shad, the reason I would say the Green Aes Sedai could "see" the man's one power attack is the barrier. Imagine if you will that you throw a blanket on a angry cat. You know the flailing legs under the blanket has claws. Or in other words while attempting to block him she could feel a MASSIVE spike of something pointing at the Red Sedai. It would not be a stretch to then cast a barrier to block whatever is about to break through the primary barrier with a secondary barrier.
@@shepardgEOD What do you mean? He's still IN the process of and actively fighting being shielded. He can still touch the source enough to resist and counter.
@@TheOnlyWay2Go. I am pretty sure that is not how shielding works in the books. When you are shield you CANNOT touch the source in any way or form possible. You can feel it you CANNOT touch it. How Over comming a shield works in book is that the person being shielded tries to touch the source through the "weak points" where the weaves are connected and where the link of the different cannelers connects. That is what he means i think.
So yeah, a channeler can not touch the Source when shielded, but if they have the strength to pull enough power to force through the shield, the shield breaks and they immediately have hold of the Power. On the other side of it, a Shield has no effect until it snaps into place, though I think there was a battle (duel) in the books that was so frantic that both people had some last moment saves and felt a brief dwindling of power as a shield was in the middle of snapping into place, just before the one on defense cut the weave of the shield. But that's epic power levels, not the typical.
Kerena Sedai didn't need to see Logain's weave to know what he was doing. Logain was pressing outward with his power in a spike, Kerena would have been able to see her own weave and those of Liandrin and Moraine react to Logain's weave. If she sensed that their weaves were about to be broken, she would have been able to sense exactly where the point of greatest weakness was, and then sacrifice herself to protect the stronger channeler. This is all based only on her being able to see the Aes Sedai's weaves, and how they were reacting to Logain's weaves that she could not see.
Exactly. If she could see it then so could the other two. She was just more perceptive and could sense what he was doing. And because she dies in the books, and because they want to show what happens to a warder when his aes sedai dies, she only protected her sisters and not herself.
Whats stupid is how they changed how they captured Logain to avoid making aes sedai looking weak, in the books logain actually killed a few of the aes sedai sent after him before being captured and that also showed their restraint and adherence to their laws that they still subdued him and carried him for hundreds of miles to the white tower without mistreating him afterwards.
@@ThaCouchpotato ah yes, Girls in this show cant lose because of "agenda" right...? Oh, wait. Moraine got clapped and no diffed by Ishamael, who also stilled her.
1:20:12 There are a couple of fundamental parts of the Warder bond that cements the Aes Sedai's dominance. First, the Warder can be compelled through the bond. Second, a Warder can be bonded against their will.
@@Ashtor1337 "most" It's completely brushed over by most of the Aes Sedai when it happens in the books, and only one reprimands the person for it on moral grounds. And that's only regarding bonding against their will, not the compulsion.
@@KaNoMikoProductions There was also a point where Alanna tried to compell.. her unwilling warder (for spoiler reasons) and was unable to. I forget where it was exactly but before Dumais Wells a good bit at least as they were plotting what to do about him.
@@KaNoMikoProductions Is that what it was? I had the impression it was just him because of how powerful he was. Obviously bonding men who can channel wasn't done a lot prior to that so either way they would have been just as surprised I guess.
I could find this believable for Nynaeve as long as it is a one off. Her being a wilder as opposed to an Aes Sedai affects her channeling in a number of ways. Because she learned while using herbs, she has them as a focus, and there is also a block she has in place that was canonically gotten past in the scene in question. I would say that she is able to do this spectacular multi-heal in this one instance simply because she doesn't know yet that she's not supposed to be able to. The restriction she has placed on herself hold her back, but some of the ones that the experienced channelers end up putting on themselves, such as the proper way to do things and what can and can't be done with the power, haven't affected her yet
Nynaeve healing anyone - let alone multiple people - without her herbs is completely out of line with how her powers are supposed to work at this point, not to mention doing it without an angreal.
Oh, also Shad, some cool stuff about costume design. Alanna Mosvani, the Green Ajah with two Warders, is Arafellin. Arafellin wear bells in their braids, and she has bells in her braids.
I was maidly excited when I heard a TV show was being made. That excitement evaporated when I heard about changes in the first episode. The show runner demonstrated they had no intention of being loyal to the source material in just that one episode.
1:11:54 "Wide girth." Oz, believe the term you're looking for is wide berth. Unless you're kinky like that, fear and being creeped out by a woman won't generally give a guy wide girth!
As a big fan of the books growing up, the only way I can enjoy this show is to treat it as a comic book adaptation. There's actually many things I feel they are doing quite well, but they are certainly butchering Jordan's story. There are themes, character moments, and deep dives into lore and worldbuilding that have been really well executed. With all of the liberties being taken with the source material, I’m convinced that eventually there will be a line crossed that prevents me from enjoying the show. But for now, they have me intrigued and moderately invested.
I took issue with Logain blowing up the axes because he is shielded. He can't channel within the shield, he can't touch the Source. He can push against the shield to try and REACH out and fill himself with the Source, but those axes would have simply split him apart. The people making this show just don't understand the materials, or (most likely) don't care and just go "Oh, this would look cool".
That battle was a not great. The spells - great, but the atacking "army" looked like a bunch of brigands. And that random king in front of a bunch of mismatched bandits...
Not to mention, that the 'army' managed to sneak up to a camp that was guarded by so many warders. In the books- warders would be constantly scouting, and an ambush could not happen
I barely watch any of the shows you all review, but I enjoy listening to the commentary on writing and worldbuilding; I'm creating my own world for stories I plan to write and the combination of content between this and Shadiversity is very helpful in doing both things well. Keep up the good work!
what annoyed me about the shielding of Logain was they portrayed HOLDING a shield as difficult. as per the rules of the Power, shielding someone who is channeling or even holding the power is very difficult, holding an established shield is very easy. true, in the books 4 Aes Sedai were shielding Logain. BUT, they explain later that one person could easily hold the shield and that they use 4 strictly for tradition. they made this change either from ignorance, or more likely, drama. but it's still annoying imo.
Another important thing- at 2h12m, they talk about physical objects vs the shield. But their mistake is that a shielded person can not weave at all. He is shielded from reaching Saidar! So he can not cast any spell toward the axe- all he can do, is only to search for weak spots in the shield. The only exception could be if he had an angreal with a reserve of Saidar.
Even if they set up Nynaeve and her powers better her healing an entire room of near dead people in one go is beyond her by far at that point. Even in book 4 or 5 (I don't remember exactly) she and another woman who can channel barely manage to save one person that far gone. Nynaeve is already crazy powerful but instant mass healing on command is just to much for anyone.
So far Nynaeve has: -been dragged by her braid for several 100 yards and gets up without a scratch. -Overcomes a trolloc on her own. -Runs back to the town, finds out that her 4 friends had left with Moiraine and Lan, goes after them, crosses a river with no crossing, approaches Shadar Logoth and evades hundreds of Trollocs, and arrives on the other side to put a sword to Lan’s neck at the same freaking time as Lan arrives at that spot So healing a room of almost dead people is like the least OP thing Captain Marvel…I mean Nynaeve has done in the 1st 4 episodes. At this rate, we won’t need a DR because Nynaeve will just defeat the DO on her own midway through season 2.
How can anyone say the writing was good in ep4 when the show first says that women can't see mens weaves and vice-versa, but then a bit later in the same episode ladies react to Saidin and a dude sees Saidar. You could argue that the Aes Sedai reacted to changes in their weaves but you CANNOT argue that Logain didn't see Nynaeves weave.
So with logain, the aes sedai can tell his power because they're actively contesting and trying to suppress it. They're talking about his power by comparing facial expressions and other forns of comparison other than directly viewing it. But with nainieve i can definitely see and somewhat agree with what you're saying, aside from her casting a powerful mass heal wounds. But even that is a stretch.
Yes, but the effect wasn't a ball of light, the effect was a mass heal. And, to me, it looked similar to what the saidar weaves have looked like in the show. You also can't see light, you can see the effects of light. So if that ball of light wasn't a weave then the entire cave would've been illuminated to high heaven.
Except the light IS the weaves, that's how the show has presented weaves thus far and you can see those same strands made of light in the "light" that Nynaeve channels, so all it is, is a LOT of one power and it seems like light, and Logain reacts to it. The show does say that women can't see saidin and men saidar, or rather the show says that women cannot see the weaves of men, that implies that men cannot see weaves of women. The show tells you one thing, but shows you another, multiple times. Luckily that was just another fuckup in a series of fuckups, so the show's still a 3/10
My interpretation of Logain’s weaves being perceived is that she could tell where and how her shield was bulging out as his weave escaped and reacted accordingly. I don’t understand why she didn’t shield herself too, though.
I've been waiting for this. I believe more and more that the series should be seen as a totally different kind of existence. Only so, and only so is it possible to watch. They got into a very serious job that I don't think they're up to. I'm still convinced that Nynaeve is decoy for normies, and that Rand will come as a revelation. If it turns out to be a female dragon. Shad, raise the Dragon Banner and we go into battle.
It isn't really necessary to go to war over it unless a female dragon really emasculate you, they could do a split, but their whole promo is who is the dragon, so it is deliberately being used for promotion when it is straight forward in the books. She is one of the strongest channellers around in the books anyway
@@Henbot but it changes the entirety of the series, all for the sake of identity politics. There must come a time when you must stand and say "enough is enough."
On the bow thing, I think that line was more "You're not looking for a fight even if you're prepared for one" rather than "you couldn't kill us like that"
Nynaeve not tugging on her braid is a big issue to me, it's so much of her character throughout the series and it's not at all difficult to have the actress do.
I really hope they start adding more complexity to Nynaeve in the show. So far she's just perfect and epic in every way. I liked it at first, but after episode 4 I think it's going too far. She has a lot of flaws in the books, but that's why she's not a Mary Sue.
The interesting thing about the group in the Book of Mormon is that they had delighted in violence and murder prior to learning about Christ. They were what you may call addicts. The issue with them taking up arms agains was the fear that they would do it for the bloodlust and not just to defend the innocent.
Another small thing I liked was how the fade moved. It was creepy and unnatural, from what little we saw. It also seemed to move faster than what would seem natural. From what I can remember this is accurate to the books.
I've never read New Spring, but I do know that the Red Ajah gentled a number of men without taking them to the Tower, Cadsuana calls it the "nastiness", and a prominent Red Sitter was forced into retirement. It seems to me that the Black Ajah was working through the Reds to gentle the Dragon before he could become a problem.
The Reds gentle men all the time. But most of them are far to weak to even warrant the question, "is this the dragon reborn?". Plus most of them don't conquer any kingdom, or go around boasting about being the dragon reborn.
If they had to break from the books, I'm glad they did it with Logain. The False Dragon was always a distant threat in the books and IMO they did a much better job here than the books of showing why everyone is so afraid of male channelers. Also Shad closing the video out with "If I take it on the hole" is now the only thing I remember about the last two hours.
There were 2 changes from the book that you didn't bring up that were somewhat relevant. The first is that it's Tower policy that a man should be shielded by at least 6 Sisters at any one time. This brings up interesting thoughts about them changing the strength differences between men and women. The second thing is that shielding in the books prevents Channellers from touching the power at all. Logain shouldn't have been able to Channel even within the confines of the shield. I'm also really surprised you didn't notice the shade they/Moraine threw at Veins of Gold.
Someone under a shield cannot channel. They cannot even touch the Source. It's the same way that a person who is in one room cannot reach for a gun that is in another room. The way forwards is blocked by a locked door.
I joked with a friend of mine that Nynaeve is somehow already a 20th level Cleric/Ranger. Alone, on foot, with no supplies and armed only with a short sword (that she got from a Trolloc she killed in a knife fight in the dark in a pool of water), she spent three days and nights tracking the main characters cross-country while evading a trolloc war party and a company of White Cloaks. And then just so happened to sneak up on Lan at night and get the drop on him after he and Moraine got flushed out of Shadar Logoth (which she apparently didn't enter, so she tracked them how?....). And then, on her first attempt at touching the One Power, she heals all the Aes Sedai and Warders almost killed by Logain with an AOE burst of healing. In short, Nynaeve is a bigger Mary Sue than Rey Skywalker. Might as well just make her the Dragon Reborn at this point and be done with it.
Lan: She allowed the ferry-man to drown in a whirl-pool... Liandrin: A Man, you say? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one...
In the books a villager comments that sometimes Nynaeve's cures worked quickly, sometimes slowly, but they always worked. When it's quick, it's the Power. When it's slow, it's the herbs. Nynaeve didn't understand what she was doing, and she was only sometimes instinctively using the Power to heal.
I don't think Nynaeve was mad enough to heal Moiraine. Yes she wants to find the others but I don't think that was enough. Especially since she doesn't like Moiraine and didn't care as much if she died. As for the directions traveling, that assumes there's a clear path that direction. The path/ road they are following could just change directions to avoid unpassable terrain by cart.
On Nynaeves power, she ranks 2 or 3 for female max level, 1 being the top level (Lanfear). Men's max level go above that. Logain in the books is stronger than Nynaeve. Egwene is not THE strongest aes sedai alive, but is top tier and stronger than the current amyrlin. But Cadsuane and at least 3 others are stronger than Egwene (and Elayne is the same strength). Also, there is a female channeler in the story that isnt a forsaken that is stronger than Nynaeve (Alivia, the former Damane)
Which means also that Nynaeve is stronger than Egwene, but not by the proportion you said. Egwene linked with Elayne would mop the floor with Nynaeve. Even though it is the contrary of what you said. Linking isn't a sum of powers, it is an increase but it would be lesser than just summing it up. Also, it has diminishing returns, but one channeler with more power can do things faster and more powerfully than separated ones weaving independently.
Cadsuane is not stronger than Egwene. Caduane herself says Elayne is stronger than her in A Crown of Sword. Of Aes Sedai, Nynaeve is the strongest followed by Egwene and Elayne. The people stronger than them were Forsaken, Kin, Damane, Atha'an Miere, and Aiel. There were some as strong or stronger in all the groups of "wilders".
point of lore. they weren't taking Logain to Tar Valon because he's a man who can channel. they were taking him there because he claimed to be the Dragon. men who can channel are often gentled by the reds as soon as they are found. false Dragons are taken to the White Tower before being gentled for purely political reasons. it's to show the power and authority of the Aes Sedai. EDIT, most of the reds DO want to gentle the Dragon. their argument is that the prophesies state that the Dragon has to be present at the final battle. nowhere do they state he has to channel. the other Aes Sedai argue that it is given that he has to channel and the reason the prophesies don't state it outright is because it's bloody obvious. presenting Dragon claimants to the Tower before gentling them in order to ascertain whether or not they are the Dragon is supposed to prevent the reds from gentling him. but, as i stated, most Aes Sedai have lost sight of this reason and it's mostly for politics.
But that's wrong - Tower Law requires at least a pro forma trial for men who can channel. This is illustrated by the Red Ajah purges fifteen or twenty years ago (late 970s NE), when for various reasons they started killing any man they suspected of channeling, which usually mean displaying unusal good fortune which could be explained by saidin, which was controversial as it was outside Tower Law. The trials are usually just show trials, but they require at least establishing the material fact that a man can channel.
As John said, Tower Law does indeed require trials for men who can channel. Which is almost certainly just "can he channel?" "yes" and once it gets proven that he can they gentle him. I guess maybe they could be asking about birthplace and stuff to try and make sure it isn't the Dragon Reborn as well. Which kinda explains why Reds feel this is foolish. If it is proven that a man can channel they just feel that they should gentle him then and there and be done with it. Also less dangerous and more efficient than taking them to Tar Valon. And if it happens early enough maybe they might gentle him before the dependence of the power and the madness is enough that they can live normally after the gentling (thought that probably does not work as an argument since a shielded person can't touch the source iirc so the madness should not increase while shielded).
@@gokbay3057 The trials are certainly pro-forma and generally have a forgone conclusion, but there is an importance buried in there somewhere. And for what it's worth - IIRC someone who has been Severed can still sense and feel the True Source, but they cannot touch it - so it's less a question of drug withdrawal and more like Tantalus - you're driven mad by something which you want, but cannot ever have dangling in front of you in every waking moment. And that assumes Severing itself isn't a massively traumatic experience by nature, or that the Reds would even want to reduce the pain experienced by male channelers. Which I doubt.
@@FlyingNinjaish I would need to check the Siuan parts to make sure how post-severing feels and I don't have my books with me but you are probably right about it being more like Tantalus than drug withdrawal.
Ok the way I interpreted the farmer bow fiasco was this: Rand says that if the farmer was intent on killing them, he would have already. The way he says this is "you would've drawn the bow with your fingertips instead of your fist" i.e., you wouldn't be holding the string back right now, you would've already loosed. Then, coupled with the gesture Rand gives Thom when stepping forward to speak, his next line of "If I wanted to kill you I wouldn't have spoken up just now", to me, made it seem like Thom was about to throw a knife at the farmer. I could be completely making things up, but that's just what my brain thought on my first watch through of the episode. Regarding Logain's 'army', I do think it was too small in that attacking scene. However, Liandrin does say that the army scatters upon Logain being capturing and some lightning stuff. In my view, the force attacking the camp would be only Logain's most loyal followers, rallied by the King of Ghealdan after the army disbands. They would want to attack soon, before the Aes Sedai move too far away, which could explain why they didn't get as many people to fight as they probably could have. That being said, there were still too many people, and they should have waited for the Aes Sedai to break camp and start moving. A party travelling is much more vulnerable than a party in a camp, on ground they choose.
They keep heavily implying one of the girls is the Dragon. If that ending hadn't been the end, I would have rage quit the episode. Still debating whether or not I will watch the next episode.
Sir Nathan of the not Ben, and Sir Oz of the Based Fat. The Lan and Nyneave scene was not at all in the books, that Prayer thing was entirely made up for the show. And Thom's "There is nothing more dangerous than a man who knows the past" is show only as well.
I think Nynaeve will be the dragon because of the comment from the dark friend saying she sees five in her dream. Because of the end of the fourth episode with Logaine saying the raging sun thing. And mostly because of when Nynaeve killed the trolloc in the pool, and the blood formed the dragons fang.
I finally finished your book "Shadow of the Conqueror" and thought it was great and I can't wait to get the next one. It was a true fantasy world with very good world building done in it.
See, i liked it much to, and i only have one major biff with it, story wise.
Surprisenly enough i figure it out when watching Arcane, if you belive it.
I feel like i shoud despise Daylen with my very heart, but i dont. Becouse i only heard about him doing horrible stuff, but i only saw him doing good, so i can bring myself to hate him in any way. And if big question is "Can be such a person be forgiven or redeemed?", then it hard for me to even consider saying "no".
Wile in Arcane i very much HATE Jinx, no half wording here. After skyship murdres i was expecting of writers to make her contradictory and complex, but no. She just straight up evil.
Evil murderous psychopath. They show it clearly and colorfullly.
Just as i cant hate Daylen because of lack of evil, after the episode 3 i cant sympathize with her AT ALL.
p.s. forgive the grammar.
And complicated science
@@sharemation5339
*possible Spoilers* sorry
I don't know if you are supposed to hate Daylin with everything you have. Daylin was a good man that was corrupted by hatred, and further corrupted by power. His servants and underlings kept him in the dark of many of his crimes (even if he knew in his heart about them). Daylin was a good man most of his life but did very evil things trying to do "good" and his biggest crime was not allowing someone to give him opposing opinions which we all need to keep us from veering off into insanity and evil. Idk those are my thoughts on Daylin.
@@The_Sleepiest_Socialist very true and I loved how it was explained without getting bogged down by it.
@@DracoOoOoOo yeah, though I’m kind of stuck at a point in the audiobook and I don’t know when I’ll when I will go back to listening and maybe finishing it, so no spoilers! Also, I just need an album of the knights singing for Christmas
As for those woke moments, paraphrasing Peter Jackson who said in an interview, we didn't want to send our message through the movie, we wanted to tell Tolkien. That's where every story ends.
This, totally this. LOTR was an adaptation. WOT is a rewrite or fanfic. Those are way different things.
@@charlestruppi7793 Even some fanfiction is more faithful.
exactly Amazon pulled a Disney dick move like what happened to Star Wars.
Except Jackson did strip LOTR of its religious aspects and inserted liberal and feminist messages into it.
@@richardcahill1234 how so?
Oz dragon is the Lan. Its right there in the name. Lan Mandragoran. Lan Man Dragon an. Which means that he's the male dragon. However there is still mystery who is the female dragon. Moirane is actually keeping it secret from the lan. The whole ploy with the boys is just elaborate plan to get Lan started on the path of the dragon without telling him.
damn man you let it out of the bag...welp sorry oz now you know.....
😂😂😂couldn’t help, this is way too funny.
I love the scene in the novels where Nynaeve is watching a full circle of 13 using a Sa'angreal heal someone, and she thinks "I can't channel half of that".
Its even better when her and Rand are doing "the thing" and she feels what Rand is channeling
@@fenixchief7 the world changing thing or the world saving thing?
In the books, Rand had heard about a filthy man being called The Beggar, roaming Camlyn. When Rand joins the crowd to see Logain The Beggar spots him and gives chase. Rand runs through the city trying to avoid the filthy man, and gets lost. He sees a nearby wall and climbs it, just able to see Logain in the distance. Logain is standing tall and proud, Rand is surprised at how cool and commanding he looks.
This is mentioned later on by Logain, who could recognise ta'veren by a light surrounding them. He finds irony in being locked up while Rand blazes like the sun. They reuse this line in the show when Logain sees Nyneave but it has less significance to his character.
And Logain looks up and makes eye contact directly with Rand.
Is this when he falls off the wall and meets Elayne for the first time?
@@adeptronic Yeah. That and The Eye of the World being brought up convinces Moiraine that the boys are ta'veren. It's more believable than rumours of ta'veren somehow reaching Lan without anyone in the Two Rivers hearing about it.
@@charlestruppi7793 no he doesn’t. Logain sees him, but it only mentions him making eye contact with the crowd. In fact, in the first book, it doesn’t even imply that he sees Rand.
Shad: "So we'll go chronologically. Except we won't."
Unrelated: You guys are quickly becoming one of my favorite channels.
In the books you have to touch people to heal them and you have to actually know what you are healing and how. You can't just cast Mass Cure Wounds and everyone within 30 ft regains hitpoints.
Not sure about touching, but (in the early books) they had only a general healing weave, that could heal nearly every wound or disease. DId they really need to know about the wounds?
From memory the energy needed to heal someone comes from their own body as well, so everyone being healed in this show and being ready to keep going as if nothing happened is wrong. In the book if someone is already really weak then healing them could actually kill them as a result.
@@lastarnagas2090 I can’t remember but I think maybe Nynaeve discovers a new healing weave that allows her to heal without touching along with healing stilling and gentling.
@@craiggallagher4461 OK the AS healing does as its only rudimentary first aid however the surgery nynaeve uses draws energy from the power.
@@lastarnagas2090 it always required contact with the person healing. And delving into the person
It's not just Rand who has problems with fighting a woman, its also Mat and Perrin. All these characters kill women when they have to, but they try to avoid fighting them whenever they can. That why I always considered it something that has to do with growing up in the two rivers.
Yep you can even see that after she's killed they felt bad for her, and she didn't reveal herself, she naively tried to get him to like her and got mad when he didn't show interest.
It's even relevant to Perrin's relationship with Faile.
That is clearly stated in the books. It's 2 rivers tradition. Only the lowest of male creatures would hurt a women.
@@glipmine7109 , YUP!!!!
It is that conservative upbringing they had. To treat woman right and do them no harm. Life before theirs etc.
Oz, the Dragon is a character that was only on screen for a short time; Bella. Literally the most important and powerful character.
all hail Bella, the Dragon Reborn!!
I thought Bela was the Creator?
@@gokbay3057 Bela can be anything she wants to be.
Bela is a dark friend.
Bela is Red Ajah
I can't belive the Dragon do be Bayle Domon's aged mother.
WHAT
You owe me a new drink.
Damn, I thought it was Bayle Domon. You've ruined it all!
Another subtle thing for the Lan & Nynaeve relationship. When arrows are shot at the camp, Lan moves in front of Nynaeve to protect her.
I loved that. Although the book Nynaeve would've complained for sure. 😂
Regarding Aes Sedai deferral to the more powerful - that ONLY applies to a full sister. They do not differ to wilders, novices, etc. Once they become a sister, their power determines their standing.
Regarding breaking or saving the world, RJ had said one of his inspirations for this story was a twist on the chosen one trope. "What if someone told you that it's your job to save the world, but in so doing you'll go insane, cause immeasurable suffering, and die?" (paraphrased)
You guys keep asking, "Did they make this change because of agenda or to improve the story?" The show-runner has been very blunt and upfront that it is for the agenda. He says something like, "I am a feminist and I want the show to be that from a modern perspective." (can't remember exact words, but something like that in an interview). Because he has been so upfront about it I am actually less annoyed by it, but yeah the changes are very much for his agenda.
So it is fanfiction then.
@@mgntstr Yep. I just wish they were more honest that it was.
SHAD, that castle is a real place in a Spanish town called Segovia. It's the Alcázar (fortress) in the old walled part of the city. Segovia also has a beautiful Roman aqueduct. I served my mission there!
That is awesome to know. I'm glad for that and I hope you had brilliant time there!
Interesting, in the Eye of the World, Matt does cry, in the old tongue, "Alcazar!"
One thing i only noticed when i rewatched this episode is that Liandrin says its easier to break out of a shield than it is to maintain a shield on someone, which as far as i remember is directly oposite of how shielding worked in the books.
LOL
If that's what she said, that's asinine. That's like a prison being made out of play-doh... easier to break out than hold someone in. Idiots!!!
These "writers" shouldn't be allowed to flip BURGERS they're that stupid. And they're in charge of deciding the way this show plays out????
I'll have to watch it again, cus I thought she was saying it was easier to GENTLE him than keeping him shielded. Once gentled, he can't touch the Power anymore, where shielding can fail....spectacularly.
@@csbrown101 that might be true maybe i have to watch it again too, i am often wrong lol
In the books, the shield is also placed between the channeler and saidin/saidar, severing the channeler from the source. IIRC, the exact wording from the books is that a shield slides in between the channeler and the One Power.
So it's more of a mental/psychological shield than a real physical shield. Hence Logain shouldn't be able to weave until after he mentally broke through the shield and would be able to seize saidar again. This in turn makes the whole sequence with the axe rather nonsensical and completely counter to established lore.
@@Lttlemoi "rather nonsensical and completely counter to established lore" is an apt description of many parts of this show. Well said.
"He is born again! I feel him! The Dragon takes his first breath on the slopes of Dragonmount! He is coming! He is coming! Light help us! Light help the world! He lies in the snow and cries like the thunder! He burns like the sun!"
That quote is from Gitara Moroso, an Aes Sedai with the gift of Foretelling, at the moment of the Dragon's rebirth. And the real kicker of all of this is that Moiraine is present when this prophecy is first spoken.
YUP!!!!!
Yeah they are pretending that never happened. That's how they can act like Nynaeve is the dragon when she is nearly a decade too old.
@@nathanrathbun2619 what I don't get about that is in episode 1 Moiraine says exactly that. She directly tells Nynaeve she's too old to be person she's searching for.
Imagine that as the opening scene in episode 1 vs the red power rangers attacking that random guy
@@kevinadams5592 I like your suggestion! Maybe have a far out shot of a snow covered mountain as the Aes Sedai starts giving the prophecy, that zooms in on a baby crying in the snow, then snaps to a young Moiraine in the White Tower?
Now I'm looking forward to the dynamic of Nynaeve denying she channeled as the other aes sedai decide she needs to go to the white tower, like the black knight in the Holy Grail denying his limbs got cut off...."you just channeled...you need to go to the tower..." "no I didn't, we need to find my friends" " But you healed everyone!!!" " it was just a scratch!!"
About Liandrin's conversation with Nynaeve. Rewatch episode 1 where Moraine is questioning Nynaeve in the pool. If she had just asked "how old are you?" "What is this pool used for" "did your teacher know any Aesedai" Nynaeve would have closed up. By asking 'dumb' queastions and makkng 'false' conclusions and being corrected Moraine got more info than Nynaeve intended. Liandrin tries the same tactic but Nynaeve isn't falling for that trick twice.
Oz, the Dragon is the Showrunners! Destined to break the world!
let's hope not...
But they arent doing anything to save it
They CAN make physical things with power. Rand conjures a flaming sword multiple times and everyone can see it.
Well, he's the exception.
But are they conjuring new things into existence, or compacting air to the point where it becomes visible as that object? This was never clear to me when reading the books.
I mean, Rand is pretty much Jesus though.
@@Lttlemoi
Siuan conjures a sword (an actual sword made of metal) to demonstrate to Egwene and Nynaeve how the power works when they meet her for the first time.
@@LOWBORN-the-LOATHSOME It's actually made from a weave of air, and even gives off waves of cold (kinda like the shardblades in the Stormlight Archives). I just recently reread that part.
This is getting out of hands, now there are more than 2 hours discussion for one hour episode. :D But I will still watch it.
Love it, it means that shad at least is a true fan of the books and that the show is showing enough interesting (good and bad) things to support the runtime
Good Star Wars quote.
EFAP says hi
They are becoming LOOOOONNNGGGGG!!!!
Shad went on EFAP too many times, it corrupted his soul! (and I love it)
22:00. Just a note: RJ was explicit in saying that none of the cultures in WoT are 1:1lifts from real-world geography or times
Well yah, you ever see pasty-faced gingers running around the Deserts in the real world? LOL, nope.
@@crazycoonass666 Well, except maybe one: en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T._E._Lawrence
@@crazycoonass666 Yes, but the whole backstory of that people is that they should not exist under normal circumstances, their whole culture is driven by the needs of the Pattern.
logan was nerfed in the series, from the books he is extremely powerful and needed 6 sisters blocking him at all times.
And the shield works differently, in books it cuts the person's access to the source, in the series it creates a restriction area.
Yeah! He is supposed to one of the most powerful channeler of this age ranking just below Rand and only Rahvin and Moridin/Ishmael from AOL.
@@mr_noob5931 Yes, Logain is extremely powerful. But I don't think they nerfed or diminished him yet. The Dragon Reborn had the benefit of the Dragon in his head telling him what to do and how patient to be. No, Logain to his credit was being extremely patient as he knew he could burst their shield at any time. But he was surrounded by Aes Sedai, more than enough to suppress him should he break loose. So he waited until an opportunity came, which did come when HIS dragonsworn came to rescue him. But Morgaine as surprised as she was, still wasn't so impressed by his strength that she thought he was the one. We'll see if I'm right. But I'd out money down that I am.
@@DEFKNIGHT
Maybe, but 2 woman shouldn’t been capable of doing anything to him. Even Nynaeve is waaaayyy below him in term of power. In fact in the books men are far stronger than women in term of power, but woman can link, men cannot without the help of a woman.
Kinda cuts off access, you can still draw on the power but it won't reach you, you can't touch it unless you are more powerful and the amount of power you summon just blasts the shield away, there were other methods to remove shields especially if formed by numerous linked sisters and thus much tougher even for powerhouses
@@hismajestylordsmenkhare5878
In fact this is my problem with the end of the episode. At some point the book are pretty much clear when compare loghain power to Nynaeve. Loghain could cut through Nynaeve shield like a hot knife through butter. Consider the gap in power Loghain shouldn’t have been that impressed by her capacity
" What if we have already gentled the Dragon?_ " was asked by an non-Red; but Sisters don't generally entirely trust other Ajahs (especially the Reds whose agenda is quite strong) . So it makes some sense for the fear/concern to be raised in private...
I love that reviews are longer and longer.
A great sign for the series 😎
I don't. Who has the time?
3hrs for episode 5 or I'm crusading
i don't. Cant these be broken up?
@@RunesandReapers UA-cam will resume from wherever you stopped watching.
The caravan may have been travelling to Tar Valon, but that doesn't mean you would always be traveling in a beeline towards your destination. Favorable terrain or traditional paths may have them going a slightly roundabout way, or as you point out, the sun was going down and they may have just been heading towards a good camping spot.
I second this idea. I see it a lot in lord of the rings as i am now reading the books. Sometimes with a freaking mountain in the way or just to find a good path as opposed to walking vertically up a hill detours have to be made.
Sisters from the green ajah helping the red hunt down a false dragon is so weird to me. In the books the red and green ajahs don't get along. Hunting male channelers is the primary mission of the red ajah, but there seem to be more green sisters here than red. It seems like the show just needed to introduce us to Alanna, but they were skipping the part where they meet in the books.
They dont meet before book 5, of course theyll want to introduce the green ajah earlier, so we get what the world is like
To me having the green and the red together made sense because logain had an army! They knew it was a possibility that they hat to fight a large group of armed men and they brought the battle ajah for back up.
It makes perfect sense for me, after all the green ajah is the battle ajah, when the a false dragon has an army than the green ajah is needed. It is also stated in the books that when Rand watches Logain being tranported through Caemlyn that warders are escorting the wagon and scanning the onlookers. As the reds have no warders those must be of another ajah and the green makes the most sense.
"Seem to be more green sisters here than red" Uhm... we see an establishing shot with 4 Red sisters, and we only see Alanna and that other Green sister. I'm not good at math, but 4 is a bigger number than 2.
@@RexusprimeIX Not in this " another turning" of the maths. Lol
The Prophesies of the Dragon have an issue brought up in the books, and it's that The Dark One isn't directly effected by The Wheel's influence. The prophesies only tell of how the heroes can defeat it and it's mentioned that because the DO can influence the Pattern then prophesy can only describe a future where "he" loses. Because The Dragon is the one to defeat it that makes him a sort of weak point, which is why it's possible for the Aes Sedai to have ruined everything by gentling him. The prophesies aren't meant to be a guaranteed win, and even if they were The Dragon is still meant to break the world which the show might be messing up by removing the ambiguity.
It is still there. I feel it, because of what is still there, like saidin and the taint.
If they were interested in changing it, those two things, and the Breaking history would not be there at all.
@@shauntempley9757 thats a logical fallacy. Them carrying things over from the books does not mean they understand the implications behind them.
@@fenixchief7 Placing those things in means the history is there. Those aspects can only be because of the events happening, such as the war. They have only done one season of the show.
The story so far is no different from the book.
It is just that the Prologue is not present, but the Age Of Legends is. Implicit by the fact the season was pretty much book ended by Paaran Disen in different stages of its history. The difference being, no one will recognize the city in Rand's lifetime.
Even he after gaining LTT's memories, will not recognize the city if he passed through it. I know that Demandred, since he laid siege to it at the end of the War, would not recognize it if he went there after being freed either.
The show is clearly going to lean into the unreliable narrator far more than the books did.
I totally got Jesus vibes from Logain too lol. It's not just the hair and the robes but also h his zen attitude and his "they are afraid" and "even my enemies can join me" lines
Finally! I've been anxiously awaiting to see what y'alls take on this was.
Is anyone using the knights watch as their sole means of consuming the wheel of time series? Coz I am
lol u hate the show that much? :D
Same, I'm going to wait until its all out to watch it
I will read the books, and never touch this show.
I watched the first 3 episodes and, as a major WoT fan, was so disgusted that I've already checked out of watching the rest. But I like Shad so I started watching these ...
I don't trust Amazon or Netflix anymore, so yes
They alluded to the magic of the warder bond with Lan's line to Moiraine. "I shouldn't have had that drink. You always get emotional when I drink."
That's not how the General Aes Sedai warder bond works, it was explained it in a later book when there is an exception.
@@danielschroder5733 Notice he didn't say she gets intoxicated, just that she got emotional. Aes Sedai do share an emotional link with their warder. She would likely be able to sense the change in his emotional state when he was drinking and respond to it. It's clearly not on the same level with the exception you're talking about.
@@kevingray4980 True but the books also don't show Warders getting overly drunk, especially when escorting a false dragon to Tar Valon
@@danielschroder5733 Well, you could say that Lan was drinking because he barely escaped a Shadowspawn raid, a Whitecloak encounter, then Shadar Logoth before coming to this camp.
All of that would put massive pressure on many Warders we saw there if they experienced those events.
Because he knows that what he and Moiraine are dealing with the Emonds Field group, Logain is a drop of water to the tempest that he really knows is coming.
If any of those Aes Sedai and Warders were aware of those developments, they would arrest Lan and Moiraine out of shear terror on the spot. Logain would be an afterthought, even if he was shielded.
@@danielschroder5733 Neither did the show show warders getting overly drunk. He said 'that drink' as in one of them, a little something to help ease the tension when he's stressed out. Most people wouldn't notice, but Moraine senses it. And knowing him like a wife knows her husband of 20 years, she understands this as a signal of how much stress he was under and feels the need to comfort him. Good writing.
Shad - it’s Warders not “Wardens” 😜
You’re doing amazingly well for someone pulling from memory of a old previous reading but you’ve made quite a number of small but important mistakes that I think warrants you reading the books again to refresh your knowledge if you’re going to continue reviewing and doing in depth break downs of each episode. Either way keep up the great work, your watch over the WoT is much appreciated 😎🍻
He says "Thom Maryland" what do you expect 😉
I agree, he would do well to re-read the books. They're little mistakes, but it's a bit odd when he's presenting himself as "I've read the books so I know"
I hear "waters"
Could also peruse the wiki a bit, easier way to find stuff.
@@Nesseight well that's cuz he's austrayan
please read 13 book before commenting! >.> what?
Moraine DOES recognize Nynauve's power, it's how she realizes that the young "girl" was the village Wisdom. However, like most Aea Sedi, Moraine had no interest in a wilder that was past the dangerous stage in her power.
I think shad needs to go back and reread the books. Wilders are ostracized by the tower. It's one of the issues when the Aiel become involved
@@Ashtor1337 Not quite, several Aes Sedai were previously wilders. Its just that they look down on wilders as long as they can't channel at will. Also the tower usually doesn't recruit beyond the age of 18, so most wilders are probably beyond that age when discovered.
@@gildor8866 , you just said what I said. Also those Wilders that joined the tower were not treated vary well untill they were able to get through thier block. They may have been to the tower but if they couldn't learn they were sent away.
@@Ashtor1337 Looked down upon and ostracized are two very different things...
@@darkshadow851 , yeah. They are look down on when they join the tower and are treated horribly. Then if they can't get threw the blocks they are sent away...
Im glad Shad still shows nuance on his review, today its become very common for political people to blindly hate or love things in absolutes. "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you do not become a monster yourself..."
I like this one more: "Beware that, when fighting monsters, you don't put your hand in their mouth" (giving them the monsters the benefit of doubt)
@@mgntstr Tyr and Fenrir
He's pretty based, yeah
Even without reading the books, I could tell the gleeman was not at all how he was written
Because there was no glee to the character named as a "gleeman". LOL
Also in the books, when Rand and Mat are in one of the villages on their way to Caemlyn, they’re shown to their room and then the dark friends come after them where they’re trapped. Then Rand uses the power and zaps them. It’s a thrilling scene and would have been amazing on screen.
I've been thinking about this too. And I belive they are waiting to reveal rand in the last episode. Where he will use balefire and everyone will be freaked out by him
@@RunesandReapers they’ve already shown him use the power to knock down a door. It’s much less exciting than blowing up half the building.
That happens after they are separated from Thom in the books so it may still come in the show, that is if it also isn't deleted
@@Sb129 they’ve released stills from episode 5 and Mat/Rand are in Tar Valon, so we don’t get that from Rand.
My favourite moment so far has to be the scene where Liandrin is attacking Moraine to Nynaeve and you're thinking "Oh God" They're gonna have Nynaeve believe everything Liandrin says because she already despises Moraine herself"
Then Lan comes in, Liandrin leaves and Nynaeve's first words to Lan are literally "That woman's a Snake"!
It's brilliant because it shows that Nynaeve is wise and doesn't give in to Liandrin's lies despite her own loathing of Moraine.
Lol - I posted this like 30 seconds before Shad got to that scene in the video - Still a fantastic scene :)
You guys are just pumping out videos this week! Love the content and fun (and sometimes SERIOUS) discussions, even if I don't always agree with every little thing
02:11:51 Shad, as far as I am aware, "shielding someone off from the source" in WoT blocks the user from being able to access the source of power. It's not an area around the user that restricts the use of his power - rather it strictly blocks his access to the power. Hence, if Logain was shielded from the source, he shouldn't be able to channel at all. Hence he cannot channel within the shield to stop the axes.
Indeed, while the channeler can push against the shield and even break through, they're not channeling within the shield. I get that they have to find a way to visualize the shield but that was a bit much.
Technically a shield does nothing if it hasn't snapped into place, which if memory serves, they were trying to reshield him, so the shield in the show is slightly more powerful than in the books, but the restricted area is completely not book canon. He should have been able to channel freely until it snapped or slid into place. But it could just be a visual way to show the desperate struggle to fight off being shielded before being cut off, it's how I have to interpret it to make sense given book knowledge. But probably just one more inaccuracy on the growing mound of em.
@@saidin0111 It was snapped in place when the warder came in and attacked Logain.
@Alex Schamenek I wasn't thinking of it as in place until it visually settled into the skin. Since it seems to operate differently than in the books, it's hard to say what they consider in place for the show. I think it would have been better to show a tendril of power dancing and probing along the outside of the shield trying to find its way to Logain, as the Power is an external force and not internal. I don't agree with how they chose to depict Shielding, I'm just trying to make it make sense in my head compared to book canon. Ironically, all it takes is a strand of spirit to cut the weave before it cuts you off, which would be easy enough for someone who self taught themselves how to use the power for both offense and healing. However since men cannot see women's weaves, it does make it much harder to interrupt their weaves. I worry about how some of the later frantic battles between epic channelers will be translated to screen with so many simultaneous weaves and countering weaves before they can be completed.
I think in the show version the shield is not fully set until it settles on the skin. So it starts by restricting the channeling to a bubble then closing into his body to fully cut him off.
This is definitely a difference from how it works in the books. In books if you are shielded you can try to get out of the shield but you aren't doing anything else with the power.
My biggest question is why did the Aes Sedai camp for three days to wait for Logaine’s army to reassemble and come after him?
Arrogance is a good guess for why Aes Sedai do any articular dumb thing.
It’s hard not to have the madness of Elan (Ba’alzamon / Ishamael) taunting the boys in the dreams. It’s such a fun character moment especially with him speaking to them as though they are Lews Therin
These are the best Wheel of Time TV show discussions I've seen online. I deeply relate Shad's position. I share his level of disillusion that want's to believe the show will be good. No other content like this online. Most others seem to be lying shills.
There was a line that moraine said, where she can't see the weaves a man makes and it being an odd experience, I think she says it to Kerene Sedai. Basically confirms separate halves.
It actually wasn’t implied that Alanna was banging her warders in the books,it was Myrelle. The rumor was that she had married all three of her warders. The books did mention that some greens do get married.
Its good to see Shad raising a fine little crop of longmans.
Clearly the Longman taint only affects men.
They must struggle to turn it to good use, or risk falling into an eternal time sucking abyss.
The moment I saw that Logain called nynaeve ‘the Dragon’, this review became my most anticipated thing ever.
Shad, didn't the gleeman say in this episode that the Dark One corrupted the power so that men can't use it safely? It's true that the red ajah have yet to acknowledge that, but it has been mentioned that it's not the fault of the men.
A character in that world, especially a darkfriend, could always think, "The men f***ed around trying to defeat the Dark One and found out" and still blame them for their own predicament.
Shad, the reason I would say the Green Aes Sedai could "see" the man's one power attack is the barrier.
Imagine if you will that you throw a blanket on a angry cat. You know the flailing legs under the blanket has claws.
Or in other words while attempting to block him she could feel a MASSIVE spike of something pointing at the Red Sedai. It would not be a stretch to then cast a barrier to block whatever is about to break through the primary barrier with a secondary barrier.
He shouldn't have even been able to hold Saidin, let alone USE IT
Or the fact she's a Battle Ajah and saw him moulding parts of his prison into spears and put two and two together.
@@shepardgEOD What do you mean? He's still IN the process of and actively fighting being shielded. He can still touch the source enough to resist and counter.
@@TheOnlyWay2Go. I am pretty sure that is not how shielding works in the books. When you are shield you CANNOT touch the source in any way or form possible. You can feel it you CANNOT touch it.
How Over comming a shield works in book is that the person being shielded tries to touch the source through the "weak points" where the weaves are connected and where the link of the different cannelers connects.
That is what he means i think.
So yeah, a channeler can not touch the Source when shielded, but if they have the strength to pull enough power to force through the shield, the shield breaks and they immediately have hold of the Power. On the other side of it, a Shield has no effect until it snaps into place, though I think there was a battle (duel) in the books that was so frantic that both people had some last moment saves and felt a brief dwindling of power as a shield was in the middle of snapping into place, just before the one on defense cut the weave of the shield. But that's epic power levels, not the typical.
Kerena Sedai didn't need to see Logain's weave to know what he was doing. Logain was pressing outward with his power in a spike, Kerena would have been able to see her own weave and those of Liandrin and Moraine react to Logain's weave. If she sensed that their weaves were about to be broken, she would have been able to sense exactly where the point of greatest weakness was, and then sacrifice herself to protect the stronger channeler. This is all based only on her being able to see the Aes Sedai's weaves, and how they were reacting to Logain's weaves that she could not see.
Exactly. If she could see it then so could the other two. She was just more perceptive and could sense what he was doing. And because she dies in the books, and because they want to show what happens to a warder when his aes sedai dies, she only protected her sisters and not herself.
Whats stupid is how they changed how they captured Logain to avoid making aes sedai looking weak, in the books logain actually killed a few of the aes sedai sent after him before being captured and that also showed their restraint and adherence to their laws that they still subdued him and carried him for hundreds of miles to the white tower without mistreating him afterwards.
Girls can't be defeated now.
Not to mention he was shielded by 6 at all times after capture
@@ThaCouchpotato ah yes, Girls in this show cant lose because of "agenda" right...?
Oh, wait. Moraine got clapped and no diffed by Ishamael, who also stilled her.
1:20:12 There are a couple of fundamental parts of the Warder bond that cements the Aes Sedai's dominance. First, the Warder can be compelled through the bond. Second, a Warder can be bonded against their will.
That's addressed in the books. When it happens to Lan. It's considered rape by most of the tower
@@Ashtor1337 "most"
It's completely brushed over by most of the Aes Sedai when it happens in the books, and only one reprimands the person for it on moral grounds. And that's only regarding bonding against their will, not the compulsion.
@@KaNoMikoProductions There was also a point where Alanna tried to compell.. her unwilling warder (for spoiler reasons) and was unable to. I forget where it was exactly but before Dumais Wells a good bit at least as they were plotting what to do about him.
@@sketch2002 Yeah, you cannot compel someone who can channel through the warder bond.
@@KaNoMikoProductions Is that what it was? I had the impression it was just him because of how powerful he was. Obviously bonding men who can channel wasn't done a lot prior to that so either way they would have been just as surprised I guess.
I could find this believable for Nynaeve as long as it is a one off. Her being a wilder as opposed to an Aes Sedai affects her channeling in a number of ways. Because she learned while using herbs, she has them as a focus, and there is also a block she has in place that was canonically gotten past in the scene in question. I would say that she is able to do this spectacular multi-heal in this one instance simply because she doesn't know yet that she's not supposed to be able to. The restriction she has placed on herself hold her back, but some of the ones that the experienced channelers end up putting on themselves, such as the proper way to do things and what can and can't be done with the power, haven't affected her yet
I imagine she was very angry Lan was dying. This is evidenced by the NO!!! scream. Anger is her block.
Nynaeve healing anyone - let alone multiple people - without her herbs is completely out of line with how her powers are supposed to work at this point, not to mention doing it without an angreal.
Oh, also Shad, some cool stuff about costume design. Alanna Mosvani, the Green Ajah with two Warders, is Arafellin. Arafellin wear bells in their braids, and she has bells in her braids.
Ive no interest in watching the show, yet am thoroughly entertained and intrigued to watch you guys shred it... Never thought TV would be this bad.
I was maidly excited when I heard a TV show was being made. That excitement evaporated when I heard about changes in the first episode. The show runner demonstrated they had no intention of being loyal to the source material in just that one episode.
5:32- “One big dance with no pants”. That’s the funniest sentence I’ve heard all day!! Good one, Oz! (XD
1:11:54 "Wide girth." Oz, believe the term you're looking for is wide berth. Unless you're kinky like that, fear and being creeped out by a woman won't generally give a guy wide girth!
As a big fan of the books growing up, the only way I can enjoy this show is to treat it as a comic book adaptation. There's actually many things I feel they are doing quite well, but they are certainly butchering Jordan's story. There are themes, character moments, and deep dives into lore and worldbuilding that have been really well executed. With all of the liberties being taken with the source material, I’m convinced that eventually there will be a line crossed that prevents me from enjoying the show. But for now, they have me intrigued and moderately invested.
I took issue with Logain blowing up the axes because he is shielded. He can't channel within the shield, he can't touch the Source. He can push against the shield to try and REACH out and fill himself with the Source, but those axes would have simply split him apart. The people making this show just don't understand the materials, or (most likely) don't care and just go "Oh, this would look cool".
That battle was a not great. The spells - great, but the atacking "army" looked like a bunch of brigands. And that random king in front of a bunch of mismatched bandits...
Not to mention, that the 'army' managed to sneak up to a camp that was guarded by so many warders. In the books- warders would be constantly scouting, and an ambush could not happen
I barely watch any of the shows you all review, but I enjoy listening to the commentary on writing and worldbuilding; I'm creating my own world for stories I plan to write and the combination of content between this and Shadiversity is very helpful in doing both things well. Keep up the good work!
My vote is to say at the end of each episode to say “watch on and watch out” to close things off.
That's got a nice ring. Maybe just add a "we" for more alliteration, "we watch on and watch out."
I love how this bits on Checking Privlage reminds me back to Hellsing Ultimate Abridged on the Carrier..... XD
what annoyed me about the shielding of Logain was they portrayed HOLDING a shield as difficult. as per the rules of the Power, shielding someone who is channeling or even holding the power is very difficult, holding an established shield is very easy. true, in the books 4 Aes Sedai were shielding Logain. BUT, they explain later that one person could easily hold the shield and that they use 4 strictly for tradition. they made this change either from ignorance, or more likely, drama. but it's still annoying imo.
I came to the comments section hoping to see this comment. I was worried I was the only one to pick up on this oversight.
Another important thing- at 2h12m, they talk about physical objects vs the shield. But their mistake is that a shielded person can not weave at all. He is shielded from reaching Saidar! So he can not cast any spell toward the axe- all he can do, is only to search for weak spots in the shield. The only exception could be if he had an angreal with a reserve of Saidar.
Even if they set up Nynaeve and her powers better her healing an entire room of near dead people in one go is beyond her by far at that point. Even in book 4 or 5 (I don't remember exactly) she and another woman who can channel barely manage to save one person that far gone. Nynaeve is already crazy powerful but instant mass healing on command is just to much for anyone.
So far Nynaeve has:
-been dragged by her braid for several 100 yards and gets up without a scratch.
-Overcomes a trolloc on her own.
-Runs back to the town, finds out that her 4 friends had left with Moiraine and Lan, goes after them, crosses a river with no crossing, approaches Shadar Logoth and evades hundreds of Trollocs, and arrives on the other side to put a sword to Lan’s neck at the same freaking time as Lan arrives at that spot
So healing a room of almost dead people is like the least OP thing Captain Marvel…I mean Nynaeve has done in the 1st 4 episodes. At this rate, we won’t need a DR because Nynaeve will just defeat the DO on her own midway through season 2.
How can anyone say the writing was good in ep4 when the show first says that women can't see mens weaves and vice-versa, but then a bit later in the same episode ladies react to Saidin and a dude sees Saidar. You could argue that the Aes Sedai reacted to changes in their weaves but you CANNOT argue that Logain didn't see Nynaeves weave.
So with logain, the aes sedai can tell his power because they're actively contesting and trying to suppress it. They're talking about his power by comparing facial expressions and other forns of comparison other than directly viewing it.
But with nainieve i can definitely see and somewhat agree with what you're saying, aside from her casting a powerful mass heal wounds. But even that is a stretch.
Yes, but the effect wasn't a ball of light, the effect was a mass heal. And, to me, it looked similar to what the saidar weaves have looked like in the show. You also can't see light, you can see the effects of light. So if that ball of light wasn't a weave then the entire cave would've been illuminated to high heaven.
@@Syaniiti Wrong. He sees the light but nit the weaves. The women cannot see Saidir. This is said in the damn show.
Except the light IS the weaves, that's how the show has presented weaves thus far and you can see those same strands made of light in the "light" that Nynaeve channels, so all it is, is a LOT of one power and it seems like light, and Logain reacts to it. The show does say that women can't see saidin and men saidar, or rather the show says that women cannot see the weaves of men, that implies that men cannot see weaves of women. The show tells you one thing, but shows you another, multiple times. Luckily that was just another fuckup in a series of fuckups, so the show's still a 3/10
My interpretation of Logain’s weaves being perceived is that she could tell where and how her shield was bulging out as his weave escaped and reacted accordingly. I don’t understand why she didn’t shield herself too, though.
She may have been unable to split her weaves more.
I've been waiting for this. I believe more and more that the series should be seen as a totally different kind of existence. Only so, and only so is it possible to watch. They got into a very serious job that I don't think they're up to. I'm still convinced that Nynaeve is decoy for normies, and that Rand will come as a revelation. If it turns out to be a female dragon. Shad, raise the Dragon Banner and we go into battle.
Bloody ashes mate!, Count me in.
You have my sword
You have my ax
It isn't really necessary to go to war over it unless a female dragon really emasculate you, they could do a split, but their whole promo is who is the dragon, so it is deliberately being used for promotion when it is straight forward in the books. She is one of the strongest channellers around in the books anyway
@@Henbot but it changes the entirety of the series, all for the sake of identity politics. There must come a time when you must stand and say "enough is enough."
The real Dragon is you, Oz. Also: "BUT MAH SON!"
On the bow thing, I think that line was more "You're not looking for a fight even if you're prepared for one" rather than "you couldn't kill us like that"
Hey Oz, the Dragon is the friends we made along the way.
Nynaeve not tugging on her braid is a big issue to me, it's so much of her character throughout the series and it's not at all difficult to have the actress do.
No kidding. It was a really good indicator of when she was able to channel too.
@@carlkenner4581 don't want any "angry stereotypes" after all...
I really hope they start adding more complexity to Nynaeve in the show. So far she's just perfect and epic in every way. I liked it at first, but after episode 4 I think it's going too far. She has a lot of flaws in the books, but that's why she's not a Mary Sue.
Oz: "What if I took your book and never gave it back huh?"
Shad: "I'm not a pacifist and I would kill you."
Me: "Ohhhhh, shit! That was savage!"
The interesting thing about the group in the Book of Mormon is that they had delighted in violence and murder prior to learning about Christ. They were what you may call addicts. The issue with them taking up arms agains was the fear that they would do it for the bloodlust and not just to defend the innocent.
I am so happy I found this channel. Thank you.
Another small thing I liked was how the fade moved. It was creepy and unnatural, from what little we saw. It also seemed to move faster than what would seem natural. From what I can remember this is accurate to the books.
I've never read New Spring, but I do know that the Red Ajah gentled a number of men without taking them to the Tower, Cadsuana calls it the "nastiness", and a prominent Red Sitter was forced into retirement. It seems to me that the Black Ajah was working through the Reds to gentle the Dragon before he could become a problem.
Heh! maybe you are right, since current Head of Red Galina Casban was a Black in secret.
The Reds gentle men all the time. But most of them are far to weak to even warrant the question, "is this the dragon reborn?". Plus most of them don't conquer any kingdom, or go around boasting about being the dragon reborn.
You ARE right. It was called the Vileness and is detailed in the prequel 'A new Spring'
If they had to break from the books, I'm glad they did it with Logain. The False Dragon was always a distant threat in the books and IMO they did a much better job here than the books of showing why everyone is so afraid of male channelers.
Also Shad closing the video out with "If I take it on the hole" is now the only thing I remember about the last two hours.
The Dark One returned his Forsaken back into the world all the time.
There were 2 changes from the book that you didn't bring up that were somewhat relevant. The first is that it's Tower policy that a man should be shielded by at least 6 Sisters at any one time. This brings up interesting thoughts about them changing the strength differences between men and women. The second thing is that shielding in the books prevents Channellers from touching the power at all. Logain shouldn't have been able to Channel even within the confines of the shield. I'm also really surprised you didn't notice the shade they/Moraine threw at Veins of Gold.
Someone under a shield cannot channel. They cannot even touch the Source. It's the same way that a person who is in one room cannot reach for a gun that is in another room.
The way forwards is blocked by a locked door.
The series imo is just dropping lower and lower with each episode. It’s unfortunate, but not unexpected
I joked with a friend of mine that Nynaeve is somehow already a 20th level Cleric/Ranger. Alone, on foot, with no supplies and armed only with a short sword (that she got from a Trolloc she killed in a knife fight in the dark in a pool of water), she spent three days and nights tracking the main characters cross-country while evading a trolloc war party and a company of White Cloaks. And then just so happened to sneak up on Lan at night and get the drop on him after he and Moraine got flushed out of Shadar Logoth (which she apparently didn't enter, so she tracked them how?....). And then, on her first attempt at touching the One Power, she heals all the Aes Sedai and Warders almost killed by Logain with an AOE burst of healing. In short, Nynaeve is a bigger Mary Sue than Rey Skywalker. Might as well just make her the Dragon Reborn at this point and be done with it.
I could only dream of being a level 20 Cleric/Druid. Our campaigns never lasted long enough.
Lan: She allowed the ferry-man to drown in a whirl-pool...
Liandrin: A Man, you say? The needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few, or the one...
In the books a villager comments that sometimes Nynaeve's cures worked quickly, sometimes slowly, but they always worked.
When it's quick, it's the Power. When it's slow, it's the herbs. Nynaeve didn't understand what she was doing, and she was only sometimes instinctively using the Power to heal.
I don't think Nynaeve was mad enough to heal Moiraine. Yes she wants to find the others but I don't think that was enough. Especially since she doesn't like Moiraine and didn't care as much if she died.
As for the directions traveling, that assumes there's a clear path that direction. The path/ road they are following could just change directions to avoid unpassable terrain by cart.
Hey Oz, the Dragon is Shad.
On Nynaeves power, she ranks 2 or 3 for female max level, 1 being the top level (Lanfear). Men's max level go above that. Logain in the books is stronger than Nynaeve. Egwene is not THE strongest aes sedai alive, but is top tier and stronger than the current amyrlin. But Cadsuane and at least 3 others are stronger than Egwene (and Elayne is the same strength).
Also, there is a female channeler in the story that isnt a forsaken that is stronger than Nynaeve (Alivia, the former Damane)
Which means also that Nynaeve is stronger than Egwene, but not by the proportion you said. Egwene linked with Elayne would mop the floor with Nynaeve. Even though it is the contrary of what you said. Linking isn't a sum of powers, it is an increase but it would be lesser than just summing it up. Also, it has diminishing returns, but one channeler with more power can do things faster and more powerfully than separated ones weaving independently.
There's three non-Forsaken more powerful than Nynaeve Talaan, Alivia and Sharina Malloy
There's three non-Forsaken more powerful than Nynaeve: Talaan, Alivia and Sharina Malloy
Cadsuane is not stronger than Egwene. Caduane herself says Elayne is stronger than her in A Crown of Sword. Of Aes Sedai, Nynaeve is the strongest followed by Egwene and Elayne. The people stronger than them were Forsaken, Kin, Damane, Atha'an Miere, and Aiel. There were some as strong or stronger in all the groups of "wilders".
@@nathanrathbun2619 cadsuane is stronger than most only because she has her own personal tar’angrel or whatever it’s called, whereas most do not.
I really enjoy this channel, especially Wheel of Time discussions. Keep up the great work muchachos. 👍
point of lore. they weren't taking Logain to Tar Valon because he's a man who can channel. they were taking him there because he claimed to be the Dragon. men who can channel are often gentled by the reds as soon as they are found. false Dragons are taken to the White Tower before being gentled for purely political reasons. it's to show the power and authority of the Aes Sedai. EDIT, most of the reds DO want to gentle the Dragon. their argument is that the prophesies state that the Dragon has to be present at the final battle. nowhere do they state he has to channel. the other Aes Sedai argue that it is given that he has to channel and the reason the prophesies don't state it outright is because it's bloody obvious. presenting Dragon claimants to the Tower before gentling them in order to ascertain whether or not they are the Dragon is supposed to prevent the reds from gentling him. but, as i stated, most Aes Sedai have lost sight of this reason and it's mostly for politics.
But that's wrong - Tower Law requires at least a pro forma trial for men who can channel. This is illustrated by the Red Ajah purges fifteen or twenty years ago (late 970s NE), when for various reasons they started killing any man they suspected of channeling, which usually mean displaying unusal good fortune which could be explained by saidin, which was controversial as it was outside Tower Law. The trials are usually just show trials, but they require at least establishing the material fact that a man can channel.
As John said, Tower Law does indeed require trials for men who can channel. Which is almost certainly just "can he channel?" "yes" and once it gets proven that he can they gentle him. I guess maybe they could be asking about birthplace and stuff to try and make sure it isn't the Dragon Reborn as well.
Which kinda explains why Reds feel this is foolish. If it is proven that a man can channel they just feel that they should gentle him then and there and be done with it. Also less dangerous and more efficient than taking them to Tar Valon. And if it happens early enough maybe they might gentle him before the dependence of the power and the madness is enough that they can live normally after the gentling (thought that probably does not work as an argument since a shielded person can't touch the source iirc so the madness should not increase while shielded).
@@gokbay3057 The trials are certainly pro-forma and generally have a forgone conclusion, but there is an importance buried in there somewhere.
And for what it's worth - IIRC someone who has been Severed can still sense and feel the True Source, but they cannot touch it - so it's less a question of drug withdrawal and more like Tantalus - you're driven mad by something which you want, but cannot ever have dangling in front of you in every waking moment.
And that assumes Severing itself isn't a massively traumatic experience by nature, or that the Reds would even want to reduce the pain experienced by male channelers. Which I doubt.
@@FlyingNinjaish I would need to check the Siuan parts to make sure how post-severing feels and I don't have my books with me but you are probably right about it being more like Tantalus than drug withdrawal.
I've given up on the amazon show, but I find you 3 more entertaining and will watch here to learn about the continuing sheeeet show. Cheers!
I didn’t dislike the gleeman until you told me how great he could have been.
I prefer him.
Book gleeman - travelling singing magician entertainer with an extravagant likable flair.
Show gleeman - Johnny cash
Hey Oz, the dragon is Shad. You've all been had this entire time!
Hide your sheep!
Ok the way I interpreted the farmer bow fiasco was this: Rand says that if the farmer was intent on killing them, he would have already. The way he says this is "you would've drawn the bow with your fingertips instead of your fist" i.e., you wouldn't be holding the string back right now, you would've already loosed. Then, coupled with the gesture Rand gives Thom when stepping forward to speak, his next line of "If I wanted to kill you I wouldn't have spoken up just now", to me, made it seem like Thom was about to throw a knife at the farmer.
I could be completely making things up, but that's just what my brain thought on my first watch through of the episode.
Regarding Logain's 'army', I do think it was too small in that attacking scene. However, Liandrin does say that the army scatters upon Logain being capturing and some lightning stuff. In my view, the force attacking the camp would be only Logain's most loyal followers, rallied by the King of Ghealdan after the army disbands. They would want to attack soon, before the Aes Sedai move too far away, which could explain why they didn't get as many people to fight as they probably could have.
That being said, there were still too many people, and they should have waited for the Aes Sedai to break camp and start moving. A party travelling is much more vulnerable than a party in a camp, on ground they choose.
Now OZ is saying Merengue! I'm going to start calling them all Pie-Sedai. Soo friggen hungry now.
They keep heavily implying one of the girls is the Dragon. If that ending hadn't been the end, I would have rage quit the episode. Still debating whether or not I will watch the next episode.
Oz: Well I guess I am a flower! I'm going to spread my pollen everywhere!
Me: You better not whip your stamen out on camera or you'll get demonetized.
Sir Nathan of the not Ben, and Sir Oz of the Based Fat.
The Lan and Nyneave scene was not at all in the books, that Prayer thing was entirely made up for the show.
And Thom's "There is nothing more dangerous than a man who knows the past" is show only as well.
I think Nynaeve will be the dragon because of the comment from the dark friend saying she sees five in her dream. Because of the end of the fourth episode with Logaine saying the raging sun thing. And mostly because of when Nynaeve killed the trolloc in the pool, and the blood formed the dragons fang.