I think the biggest reason people dislike Leffen, is not because he complains about cheese etc, but his general attitude towards people. He will call 90% of the people he play trash, have previously told people they are "waste of air, and should kill themselves" (Obviously this vod is removed). Sure i get that you can get salty at a game like tekken, especially when twitch chat is trolling. But for me its a matter of principles, that you dont say stuff like "go kill yourself" to anyone. I personally dont care what Leffen thinks about tekken, its his personal opinion, even though i think he is delusional when he says he is fundamentally better than many top players at the game. But it doesnt bother me, what bothers me is that he gets rewarded (by getting views) for saying these horrible things (trashtalking people).
It's not like many other streamers gained fame partially because of trash talking. TMM and Aris are prime examples. They used to talk shit like crazy during ttt2 days.
@@Shibu_PL Times have changed since then though. Also its the severity of the trash talk imo combined with that 90% of his content is trashtalk. Sure, tekken communty have some elitism and toxicity like most gaming communities, but if you are Leffen, can you really call other people toxic?
@@Shibu_PL that dosen't mean it's right too or you can keep doing it cuz both TMM and Aris changed althought it's more so for Aris than TMM but there will amways be a limit
Leffen constantly complains about everything in the game and quite literally calls everything cheese. He is inconsistent in his definition of something he hates and acts extremely hypocritical by complaining about "cheese" other characters have and even went to the extent of denying that his character (Zafina) has any good cheese. His review a few months ago was okay but I think he's starting to crack since he's spent so much time in the game and is now building up some Dunning-Kruger and is starting to take out unbased frustration out on super petty things.
When you watch a stream and the guy is throwing around the word cheese literally every 50 seconds you start to wonder if the person you're watching is being properly receptive of the game. The clip you show alone isn't bad, but when you watch his stream for over three hours you'll realize how inconsistent his point of view is when he starts making negative comments about every match he's in.
Sinic Breh I just got zafina like a week ago and she’s mostly “cheese” if cheese means having more than one stance with mixups and pressure. Oh yeah and she’s got the best movement too. Yeah anybody who plays zafina and denies the fact that she’s a slippery deceptively strong character is probably lying to themselves about it as well
It is not a problem at all. People give him way too much attention. This got stretched way more than it should have. The attention given to this Drama if given to the small channels of Tekken content creators or streamers it may have changed their lives.
@@LucasMartins-dy6no look I'm defending leffen and toxic behavior but most people do not realize he's won tournaments in multiple fighting games. His biggest achievements were in smash to my knowledge, but to say that in a means to discredit or invalidate is just ignorant. The only issue I have with the hivemind saying what you said in your comment is the lack of acknowledgement in that regard. Other than that I agree, Twitter shitting in general isn't going to get anyone anywhere.
@@Prohxyy Jtbc, im not one of the guys who harrass him online, i dont watch any streams only yt, but ive seen many instances wich he was wrong and acted like a fuck boy (no problem with that) but then goes and cry in twitter like his the victim, cant take the heat? Stay out of the kitchen...this is not only because of tekken, he acts the same way about every drama hes involved, i respect the player but the guy is sooo annoying, theres a loud minority of scrubs, toxicity will remain if we keep adressing them.
Dang I never really thought about how in touch TMM is with newer players. As someone who started this game 5 months ago as my first tekken, and has literally only been able to play a single character competently after 100+ hours, I really appreciate that my feelings have been validated. Game is good, but theres so. much. STUFF. There's like he said, information checks all of the time, and if you dont happen to know a specific string or move, BAM counterhit, BAM, launch, BAM, youre punished. And even if you CAN lab the character, you just saw a random person spamming or something good luck figuring out WHICH of the 100 moves/ strings they were spamming. I love playing this game but I agree with a lot of the points made.
If Leffen played Tekken off stream, he would have a better time. Playing Tekken on stream as a well known public figure is just asking to be sniped/trolled and it's just a risk he'll have to live with.
@@cholt9726 I'm sure he's fully aware. Playing Tekken isnt the main reason people watch Leffen, so if he wants to climb without getting snipe, he can play it off stream. Any other game he plays will net him the usually views, money, and subs.
This is so accurate , newbies when trying to learn the game I feel bad for them , because Tekken has to much moves and characters , but lack in online quality gaming , like super slow loading time etc... I reach raijin n I feel like I reach my max because I only see characters that I don't recognize and it's impossible to escape the cheese on this game , there are stupid string characters that with 50/50 and get one launch you're death it's stupid
This the upper ranks are not even fun because people pick BS characters to spam and death combo don't even mention the lag switchers. I've lost count at how many people will drop from a four bar down to a one bar the second they lose a round with no penalty. I don't even enjoy winning some matches against certain characters because I literally hate playing against them, I like the game but Tekken 5 DR is a far better game if people still played it I wouldn't have got six or seven.
He complains constantly while playing. Like, waaaay too much. I really like when he plays Smash but the moment he switches to Tekken it's time to watch some other guy.
Leffen is still a person I don't really understand. If he complain so much about the game he can leave, nice knowing you, Yet he still plays it. He can say whatever he wants, in the end I'm happy (kinda) to see a player from another community play Tekken. And it's obvious that Tekken 7 is not Perfect, nothing is. It's only a fighting game that was in the right place at the right time, and did really well, not like other fighting games.
I tuned in one of his streams and honestly he is so rude. Even if a person in chat is just saying his/her opinion he is going thrash that person because he or she is not as good as him therefore to him, the opinion is invalid.
For those who know Leffen from the smash community, his critique of a game's weak points are not Tekken exclusive. He does trash talk Smash and it's community too and he gets the same amount of backlash. He just has a tendency to speak his true thoughts. So simply hear him out, but dont take it to heart. The Tekken community is taking his words way too personally.
Mimicdess The problem is a lot of his complaints are simply just stupid, and a result of him just not being as good at the game as other people. Calling Bryan a cheesy character? What? 😂 it’s because he doesn’t know the matchup! That’s why it’s different than his critique of the game he usually plays.
Have you seen a League of Legends player? They talk so much shit about the game, but they're addicted to it like crack. Also, in a more positivel light, the most passionate people are the most critical. Constructively, of course.
I complain so much about Tekken about pluggers and cheaters and what not but hey I still play it. He's the same as some of us and he even gets a much harder time being a streamer cause he will get sniped almost all of the time.
Yeah it really hit home when he talked about how bloated and difficult it is to find the answer to cheese or just strings in general. I come from Mortal Kombat and one great thing nether realm does is a pretty amazing practice mode. I see some bullshit, I instantly jump to practice and almost instantly know how to counter without scrolling through hundreds of strings trying to find the one I need to lab
No, not really. Mortal Kombat has lower amount of strings/bs compared to Tekken. Tekken simply outnumbers mortal kombat. But I agree, that a better training range should be here
You either learn it or you don't. Its like language, you may have the system in check, but if your vocabulary is lacking , then the conversation may not sound stellar.
He said that fundamentally he is about the same as tekken pros, it is just that he does not know a lot of strings and setups, and thus he cannot compete fairly with them without that knowledge. I wish someone like Knee would play against him and use only 1-4 moves, so that he cannot make the knowledge excuse. I have seen Knee beating Sodam by just using only a single move the entire match.
I dont have anything serious against Leffen but comparing yourself to pro players that have been playing the game for 20+ years seems pretty extreme honestly. Leffen obviously is a great overall player but come on, thats just arrogant. I cant really stand his attitude towards others. It seems like he is pissed because for once he doesnt instantly "rise" to the top.
I'm glad I brought up him defending you in your streams, because your perspective is always great. Being able to look at multiple opinions about a subject is probably your biggest strength. I love Tekken, I've been a fanboy since playing as a toddler in the 90s. Tekken has it's issues and we as a community need to realize this and have these conversations so we can push for changes that make the game better for everyone. You're a legend MainMan. Leffen, is certainly not my favorite person in the FGC Community, but he's grown a lot and he has earned my respect. This may not mean much to either of you, but it's people like you guys that change the community and even the game for the better
Tekken's appeal is it redundant complexity. Much how the original Dark Souls was redundantly unforgiving. CSGO is redundantly demanding of map knowledge and training your aim. People love these games because of these things.
honestly, there is like 5% that don't skip intros and kicharge ( we've all been there) but most of the tekken community adds each other does lobbies gives tips, i think the problem is twitter and reddit haha
"I just need MU knowledge but I mean that's the game, I know that most top level players are not.. better than me fundamentally they just have.. a lot of cheese on me, and I feel like if I learned the common MUs I could definitely compete with a lot of them, the game isn't that complicated or hard once you know the shit but I don't know the shit." Leffen has been genuinely dumping on this game and the community, that's why we feel like chatting shit about him especially because he holds so much sway and everyone will otherwise pander to him because of it. Everybody agrees that the game is bloated but it gets to the point where he questions fundamental mechanics and the community's attitude as a whole (because it's more "toxic" than smash- which is to say it's just not totally PC). Where there's smoke, there's fire.
True though, fundamentals in this game are quite restricted. Movement is capped at l medium skill ceiling and raw fundamentals aren't that hard to understand. The matchup knowledge and strategising against a character is REALLY hard in my opinion. On top of that some characters are really complicated and hard to understand, for example hworang feels like a different character everytime he changes stance. I think the character depth (and bloating) + matchups make up maybe 70-80% of a player's skill. If you look at the actual game systems, combos, low parries, blocking, poking ect, it's actually on a quite basic level whereas 2D fighters have much more in terms of global systems. I think what he means is that, he has learned the global systems at a very high level, aka fundamentals, but he is struggling with the stupid amount of stuff you just "need to know" in order to compete. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
@@lifenote1943 I think the knowledge checks and matchups are needlessy complex and add nothing but frustration and tedious lab to the game, compared to the fundamental options you have. This game is like if chess had more exceptions than rules, you spend a ridiculously small time playing with those rules compared to the amount of time you spend learning the exceptions, and it can be very frustrating and stupid. Tekken would be far better with a small cast with 50~60 moves each (but they're all useful and highly specialized, instead of having multiple catch-all options and a bunch of trash gimmick moves), and a greater emphasis on fundamentals (Punishment, movement, timing, etc).
@@caiobruno8006 Yeah, a way I thought about it was: you have to learn all the cheese and bull shit, but once you play at a high level you never see it again. It's kind of funny that you have to learn all these knowledge checks that aren't used to high level play. So it's just a waste of time imo, you're not actually getting better in any way. I've been playing a lot of sc2, that game has a lot of cheese too, but at least the cheese is actually important in professional play. They are legitimate strats and a core part of the game. In tekken the complexity is only there because it's there. Oh and yeah fuck catch all options, it's so dumb that you can input one move that beats 40 moves. Just makes the characters so bland. Like paul is basically just Df2 and qcf 3. They both high crush on top of being insane moves.
Are you trying to say that noone has ever eaten snake edges and bitched about it? or are you expecting streamers to be transcendant humans who have no emotion and pander to sensitive people?
I checked out the stream for a good hour and watched him eat the same 2 lows repeatedly without a single low parry. No throw breaks. The worst getup choices, etc. I agree that training in Tekken is difficult. However, Leffen ought to be using it to build that muscle memory for the FUNDAMENTALS before he tries to figure out all the frame data.
Not enough people talk about the fact that YOU HAVE TO BUY THE CHARACTER TO LAB THEM. I don't like Ganryu, I won't play Ganryu. Then why are you forcing me to buy him to just lab him ? This is backwards thinking and if EA or Activision have done something like this the outrage will be huge.
This is a fgc issue I dont understand why cant I just feel the character out. Ik its because they dont want me to demo them and figure out what characters I want. Which is BS
Not a valid argument. There are very few games that allow you to play a dlc character that you haven't paid for. You can't do it in FighterZ, you can't do it in SFV(anymore), you can't do it in MK11, you couldn't do it in MKX, you couldn't do it in MK9, you couldn't do it in BBtag, you couldn't do it in SFIV, you couldn't do it P4Arena, you couldn't do it in Street Fighter X Tekken etc, et-fucking-c. The only games you can do that in are ones that have a rotating base of characters to play, and that's only in the demo/trial versions of them as well like DOA5 & 6, or Killer Instinct. Fuck, there are actual issues here like paying for frame data. Complain about that, but this is an argument I've heard time and time again and it's just one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever heard.
@@mikealangeloy I never said I wanted to play the character for Free. I said I wanted to LAB the character for FREE & no practice mode is not the same as playing in online or offline mode. having this problem in other games doesn't mean its should be excusable. (Tekken has a shite netcode, Oh will its fine because SFV, DBZ, GuiltyGearXrd, BBTAG don't have a good net code so it's fine). See the problem with your argument. And Just because I bring one issue doesn't mean I don't hate the idea that frame data is behind a paywall as well. But with characters locked its more of a problem because it becomes a disadvantage due to matchup knowledge being a core element in Tekken. Watching a video and labbing the character yourself is not the same at all.
@@MuzzYADam Labbing a character can be seen as "playing" the character therefore companies have no incentive of you "lab for free" also it would hampered their sales tremendously if they did let ppl do that. Tekken players need to stop asking for this.
@@mikealangeloy the basis of tekken is labbing a character and learning the punish. How are u supposed to learn learn the frame data if you cant lab it. Each character has about 100 moves minimum. So how can you learn animations and frames without having to buy the character first. Atleast you can go to TZ to learn the frame data, but it dont mean shit if you can't physically lab it.
It's not only about him being salty or pointing out flaws, I mean we already know how flawed Tekken is.The thing is you can't expect to not get trolled if you eat Bryan's snake edge at breakfast and dinner while constantly shitting on the game,this one is on you Leffen.And throwing personal attacks while boasting you being a pro Smash player when somebody is trying to point out your mistakes is a huuuuge mistake,isnt it son?
Leffens rage is on him but i have watched how tekken players 'point out mistakes' in his chat. neither side is civil. quit giving him clicks if you really dont like it
@@LovelyToaster well,for your kind information,I tuned on his channel only once and it was my last.I can't afford to lose my precious time watching crybabies.Sorry if you were offended in any way Sir.
Sebastien Hahn just adding my two cents. i replied because i think you have a good point about how he deals with getting hit by snake edge or missing low parries ie he just rages and calls it cheap or the other person bad for spamming it.
@@LovelyToaster that's the whole point its one thing to rage, it's another to rage when you can't deal with something and you talk down on the game and it's players. It's immature and bitchy.
@@WavyJayZ i agree with all that but i dont think you can go that hard on a man in his own stream. thats sorta the point. tekken players are tuning into the stream of this confirmed villain and expecting him to suddenly be humble or something?? Tekken greatness speaks for itself, hope leff nuts up and realizes that and grinds it for real instead of just making excuses when hes challenged.
I respectfully disagree with u mainman. There’s many aspects why Leffen should be chastised for his behaviour especially someone with his status. His attitude towards other players when giving him criticism, that holier than thou thinking especially when he’s not even that experienced with the game but speaks like he’s an expert just coz he’s a good smash player. If you have a platform like he does, it’s basically spreading misinformation coz of his frustration at the game. If he was just some random player with no followers, it’s okay to be as salty and bitchy as he is, but when you have a platform and have no experience on how to play the game, the ‘rants’ come off as churlish and unjust
He had a point when he asked "what is being added by calling him a bitch on Reddit?" Someone with his size and audience can use that as ammo against online Tekken communities and give his fans proof that the Tekken community is horrible. If a good example was set, he'd have that much less to complain about.
Yup , exactly .It's not what Leffen has to say about Tekken. Personally , i liked watching him play. But not anymore, it's just Leffens attitude towards everything and the way he says it.
He even said to someone "just go d*e if you're going to send me shitty combo" because a random dude sent him a complicated combo he was dropping everytime.
The idea that Smash skill translates over to any other fighting game is the biggest thing holding him back. They are entirely different games. There are plenty of high level players from other games (MKX, MVCU, KOF, Soul Caliber) that can play at equally high level in Tekken. This is not the case for Smash for better or worse. I thought about it a bit and I think Leffen is doing it so he can prove Smash is a real fighting game. If he can get top rank in Tekken well it shows a foundation of Smash got him there, some shit like that. But if he can't get top rank well Tekken has a toxic community and is a trash game, he wins either way. /s
I hate this kind of mindset when there is so much stuff you just can react to. Normal punishable launchers usually do ~50% 60-70% if counter hit, then you are at the wall and you have to at least eat 3-4 fast low pokes to die usually. The 2 hits to death is just scrubs eating shit on counter hit snake edges on 3-4 bar connections and the game is just not balanced around online except for maybe throw breaking. When you see high lvl play, the rounds are so much harder to close out.
Depends where you go imo. Discord is full of really cool guys. Reddit is the hellhole. Those guys light you up for the slightest difference of opinion on the most menial stuff.
@@coolcool5181 people just shit on me because I play LC, Noctis and Leo. On UA-cam comment sections. Some people really represent tekken community to a new player as whiny and salty af
I agree with you. I started learning tekken like two weeks ago and its been nice with other people. The mortal kombat community on the other hand is absolutely terrible in my experience, and I've been playing those games for about 6 years
Honestly , I don’t see the point in complaining bout Tekken. Everybody knows it’s a hard game, and every community is toxic, so why even complain? This isn’t even a “git gud” thing, just a “it’s whatever” thing I guess lol
no game is perfect. Tekken 7 is amazing. Been playing it since release. But took a long break from it. For the topic. Its twitter tho. Everyone is an ass on twitter.
Raspotnik me too, I played tekken when it was released. When I started playing that game I instantly fell in love with it, and it took me a long time to understand the frames, the characters, the moves, etc and I got good with it a few years, but yeah i had to take a long break from it too, cuz when ever I lose the game I became a salty cry baby really I was very stressed from losing but then I realized ‘is just a game, don’t get mad about it’ that’s what I would say to myself...
I absolutely love T7, and the knowledge checks - good term btw - and cheese is moderately annoying, but I know that it's on me, for the most part, to learn and adapt. But yeah I take fairly extensive notes and I'll take 2-3 months away from the game, this year I took like 5 months off because I was playing other games and spending time on other hobbies. I came back to it a month ago and got back instantly hooked lol.
if only tekken 8 introduced some sort of matchup trial mode that drills the player against a fine tuned cpu that plays to the strenghths of the character they choose. it could go slow mo whenever the cpu throws out something like a snake edge, or some big commital high, and it should also give you a detailed description of a characters game plan and how to beat it.
If he didn't want to duck Fauk's kick, I could imagine him playing Virtua Fighter. Particular moves, usually tracking and moves with pushback (You duck or evade respectively some* ) he would get rung out because whilst blocking the characters body move. VF favors constant decision making on defense and offense whilst understanding risk/reward and your frame data. Medium sized roster, you learn in-match right away. Need to lab? Free frame data, all stages types are there, a reaction based dummy system to do their universal and unique move. You can keep fresh by simply watching the Japanese and then your matches.
With respect to the situation the world is in, I understand all he has is online. But why is he playing online ranked and dealing with stream monsters, and letting that be his impression of the community? People who LOVE Tekken and have played it for years don't love online ranked. The vitriol to him is unwarranted, but painting the community with broad strokes cause of a toxic online experience is what bothers me. We're all learning the game, veteran and new players alike. The mountain to climb that is Tekken's meta is both daunting and exciting, but he acts like it's an issue it even exists. Fair enough, fair criticism, but some people are okay with that. He can't expect to be good at the game within a year, when people have spent years just trying to compete at a decent level.
Honestly I’m seeing more of “The game isn’t perfect, Leffen just thinks he’s too perfect for the game” so I can understand why people are mad I still think constantly getting at him isn’t necessary
I think Leffen with his issues of Tekken being complex, that's it's legacy heavy etc. If you made it more like the games he played, Tekken would lose it's identity. I agree with labbing DLC is BS but how many games actually let you lab the DLC, if anyone knows? The frame data DLC should have 100% been free. I think Tekken is in it's own lane a little bit, you can't change too much without stripping it's identity, there should be more focus on better modes, network enhancements, QoL adjustments and some well made tutorials that are engaging. If you don't like the game then you simply don't play it. A good example is how everyone reacted to the hellsweep buff, you change legacy moves or chars and people lose their shit, obvs that was a bad change but just an example of one. Obviously this is just my opinion, so w.e
It isn't a huge number of games but both Rivals of Aether and Killer Instinct allow you to practice DLC characters IIRC. Besides FighterZ which allows it through Body Change from Ginyu in offline and online modes but it isn't really "practice" mode any way you slice it. Someone else may be able to name some, but it isn't like it is a hard feature to implement. It is just a possibility that gets ignored like Rollback.
IF you stumbled upon this video today, you should watch "Leffen: A Liar and a Fraud" vid. Basically this dude sh*t talks the game and attacks anybody, but when he's finally getting the heat and the people are catching on to his BS, Leffen plays the victim. This is a normal reaction from him and is something I do not like from somebody. He has called TK time and time again a "Cheese" game and that it's a bad game, even when he is not tilted or playing Tekken. From what I can see here is Leffen is bad at the game, but he vents his frustrations on the game and blames his own shortcomings on it. It's not the game that's bad, he is, and that's ultimately the problem here.
Its mostly the Western audience that takes it too personally when people say Tekken has problems. I've seen fellow Asian people don't get mad when people criticize Tekken. Look on Reddit, they all hail Harada as a god and support his "don't ask me for shit" phrase when people want basic quality-of-life upgrades in the game. You can see them gatekeeping beginners with their "git gud" attitudes.
the most absolute reasonable approach anyone has taken so far, big amount of respect to TMM as well as also appreciate that he acknowledged that Dyrus also had a pretty similar experience when he first started playing Tekken aka getting bombarded with jims when he's trying to play the game
So yesterday, I played against a Devil Jin player. Whenever he would go into Fly, I immediately applied delayed hopkick to try and punish him. The thing about this is, that this has never happened to me before which made me very proud of myself for successfully reacting to his stance. So I absolutely agree with TMM and Leffen, that despite knowing a certain character’s move, you also must be able to recognize it through muscle memory to punish it, which I now realize comes from multiple encounters and experiences with that character. This game, no matter what anyone says, is 100% bloated. But that is the Tekken franchise’s charm IMO. The moveset dosen’t change and experience is key, almost like a REAL sport.
I'm a smash player who appreciates tekken and sees the beauty in it's complexity (for the really strong players) I haven't personally played it myself , but enjoy watching the content. This video really made me like you. Objectivity like this is refreshing from a top-tier player in any scene. Hats off my friend
The problem I have is if it were any other no name streamer getting trolled in chat, no one would care. But because its Leffen, the world is supposed to treat him different. He victimizes himself because he's not on the top of the food chain, people feed off that. People troll him the same reason people troll LTG. Being humble goes a long way.
Traditionally speaking, the way you learned the entire roster was to do marathon Mokujin matchups. That character existed specifically to make the knowledge check overhead palatable. The current version made a huge mistake removing them, and also made a huge mistake allowing game mechanics to make it a huge chore to get variety in general on top of that. I can't get a new player matchup reliably even when I opt out of a rematch, can't change characters between matchups without exiting all the way back to the main menu, and can't opt to roll again on stage when rematching. All of these are lost opportunities to practice in a well rounded way, and the series always had approachable mechanics to handle this in previous games that are absent now. Put all of that back, it doesn't work without it.
I think it works 2 ways. The majority of leffens chat is quite tame. Your usual twitch chat. The issue is, you have a few people that will write twitter/reddit posts and bring the rest of us down. However, its very frustrating to tekken players, listening to leffen call all knowledge checks, cheese. Such as dragunovs b4,3 or his command grab. And he won't listen to any advice other than from what I've seen to be 'verified' players. This is what I've gathered from seeing his stream only a few times.
this feels very cherrypicked though nobody reasonable is complaining about the clips of leffen being shown here, clearly there is more to him than this, I don't know what because I don't use much twitch but if the tekken community was really this bad, then sonicfox would have been driven out long ago, everyone would have, but it's only leffen if I had to put my theory in Leffen thinks the tekken community is the worst community, because he can't respond to hate by saying I'm a pro, he knows he's not even a high level player yet, and because becoming a high level player takes so long in this game, he's frustrated at the game and the audience, and keeps making everyone angry
1 in 50 chance of meeting the character that gave you trouble You meet a Lei they bamboozle yoi with cheese you go back to the lab study for weeks Now youre ready You just have to wait another year till you meet another lei But in that time prepare for zafina hwoarang eddy xiaoyu julia ganryu and all the other characters with potent cheese
10:00 yup. A lot of people stated that as the reason why Rangchu won a tournament with panda... he had a lot of practice with that match up, and his opponents were like "huh, how does this matchup go? I can't remember!"
Tekken has always had a little bit of gimmicks and cheese, but its got worse over the years. thats the problem, they keep pushing to 11 on every new character lol.
coolunusual tekken 7 is a buttfuck of characters, cheesy moves(ra and rd included), and the longest most damaging combos ever. Its not balanced. Its just not. Its on a new level of gimmicks and laggy bullshit compared to other tekkens.
@@EaastonCams I could kick a Leroy player's ass with Gigas if I wanted to try to do that in older games with similarly powered characters. That's been primarily an issue with newer dlc characters.
So quick question for my fight stick nerds like my self. Is there a restriction gate or a Joystick with a smaller restriction gate ? To put it in the easiest to understand lingo. Is there a joystick or restriction gate that stops the fight stick as soon as it “clicks” with out the extra slack after the “click”
Soulcalibur 6 as a similar issue, although that game has fewer characters but every character has more uniqueness to them then Tekken chars have which are a bit more uniform.
I feel like Tekken, ever since tag 2, has required a lot of dedication to get better at. Like a lot of games, but many feel it’s unnecessary to have this much training needed. I never felt overwhelmed. I feel like if you play enough and practice your character enough, you can learn match ups as time goes on. You just have to catch on quickly during fights
Dragon Ball FighterZ kinda, sorta has this. You have this exploit where a character called Captain Ginyu can swap bodies with an enemy character. So you essentially steal that character from the other player/CPU. The exploit was that there are game modes where you can encounter DLC characters, so you can steal those characters and play with them that way. It's not a lab/practice mode by any means though.The Tekken equivalent would be like if you could encounter the DLC characters in treasure battle, and then use Yoshi (if he had a move like that - and he would be the character to have a move like that) to swap characters.
@@RJALEXANDER777 that's one way to get around it but it isnt always guaranteed that you'd nail the body swap. Plus that'd allow you to play as the character, not learn how to fight against em. My point is there isn't a game where you can outright lab a character you don't own whenever you want. All of Leffen's criticism's i've seen for Tekken were valid except for that one. Tekken's tough af (especially when compared to smash) but complaining ab buying dlc chars to lab them isn't a valid complaint
For Honor. I know that might not count as a fighting game and a ton of people say it's garbage even to this day, but labbing characters without buying them is a thing in For Honor.
u have to read between the lines. yes, the exact complaint TMM quoted from Leffen was a fair complaint by Leffen, but you read between the lines. E.g., when a woman says something, do they always simply mean the exact words they said? No. Leffen made a legit complaint, but he is trying to shift all the blame to the complaints he made. Does he critique his own skills with equal frequency as he complains about the game, or does he always blame the game when he loses? What is the ratio? If the ratio is highly imbalanced, but he is losing to other online rank players (not pros), then that means his ratio is skewed. So, what is his true intention? He plays because he wants to be able to have bragging rights one day, but as long as that day doesn't come, he will keep trying, while blaming the game. the problem is that tekken is taking waaaaay to long for him to get there, so now he has deep rooted complaints about tekken, but not other games. it's the type of ppl that pisses you off, because they brag all the time, but when they get humbled, they refuse to act humbled and try to brag their way through. Leffen is clearly playing tekken to reach the end of the tunnel one day, but he isn't anywhere close, so meanwhile, if he can't act humbled, he's gotta point out the flaws of the game. So, yeah, the complaints he keeps legit, but why is he whining nonstop? the motive/intent is to shift the blame, until the day comes when he gets good, then he can brag (plus brag how he overcame the stuff he complained about). it's a common tactic used by ppl who has too much pride and can't eat humble pie. So, while the complaint TMM quoted was a legit complaint, Leffy's constant whining has another motive that really annoys ppl. Anyone who has a friend like that would get annoyed. Why is TMM defending Leffen? I think TMM is just doing this to keep Leffen in the Tekken scene. Also, because TMM isn't experiencing his whining first hand, so he doesn't realise Leffen is doing the typical annoying salty gamer thing. in addition, ppl don't flame TMM when TMM said it in the past. TMM did not address this. why did they flame leffen? because they knew what leffen was doing. also, leffen began criticizing the first time he tried tekken, as a newb. when a newcomer comes, starts losing, and immediately starts blaming the game, that is a completely differently message. if leffen didn't look like he was being a sore loser, ppl would react differently. sore losers are easy to spot and also easily annoy ppl. that's it. imagine if leffen was losing, but instead he said, "wow, just how complicated is this game?" but he doesn't give any context that he is being a sore loser. then i bet the chat would instead say, "yea, u can't win if u don't lab", "keep it up man", etc. *they would say why leffen is losing for leffen, so leffen doesn't have to say it. when u don't act like a sore loser and make the same complaint, ppl will defend u. but when u immediately say every excuse yourself, nonstop, and look salty af, ppl pick up on that and call u out.* leffen was clearly acting like the ONLY reason he couldn't become god at this game was because he wasn't a legacy player. he tried to disregard all the pros by implying that they are better because they are legacy players. that doesn't explain how online casuals are beating him. he was complaining so much, but never even tried to think his movement isn't that great, etc. he actually already started praising himself about learning kazumi combos already on his first stream, like he mastered the game and even said the game is not hard, but the movelist made him lose. u can see him acting like a sore loser, while bragging, very easily. this would've happened to any other game he's not good at. it just happened that he's not good at tekken. all communities flame sore losers. he just excelled at the other games too fast that he didn't have enough chances to act like a sore loser.
There is no perfect game and a discussion like that will always be subjective, because in order for you to think a game is perfect, it needs to appeal to you in very specific ways, personally, I've always really liked fighting games and specifically, 3D fighting games, there was something about the grounded and semi-realistic nature to them that really sucked me in and fascinated me, I think that a perfect game to appeal to me would be a combination of relatively simple gameplay yet complex and deep system for a 3D fighting game, with mostly design that is down to earth yet has some fantastical elements to it, which is why my favorite games are always Tekken and Virtua Fighter installments.
Paul also works as a solid beginner character if you wanna go with a legacy character. Heavily populated online as he's a perfect character for circumventing labbing. Everything launches or does huge damage while being relatively safe or hard for lower ranked players to step or punish. Plus df2 call out to bail you out of anything you're scared of.
It feels like playing mid/high level Tekken 7 is like racing cars, but every new session it's a random car you drive, a random track/layout, random weather, and it variates between all the different kinds of race cars/models. You and your opponent fighting in Tekken is like dealing with your car, the track, and whatever bad things that might happen during racing, then swapping it all around in the next race.
"Amazing: Player finds things he like and things he doesn't like at videogame and then complains about the ones he doesn't. Tune in at 8pm to find out more."
Tekken is hard as of playing this game over 10 years+ it takes time to learn everything but this what i liked about it the challenge of the skill level and learning the key to movement and your own playstyle and mindgames and the best of all the execution ,games were made to have fun and if you want to be good at tekken you have to be with it for the long run!!!!
To be honest I just don’t get some of his reasons for disliking it considering it’s just “I can’t get good fast” But to bully him for it is honestly overboard
to be fair tekken twitter, and reddit are literal cancer. i just stopped posting and looking at both. him not liking tekken is fair. and i think vocal members of the community may not help
so he's got a problem with labbing? lol so what do you want? a cheat code? an auto guard? smh...this guy wants a shortcut in Tekken when there never was one.
I mean hes just saying that if you want lab all chars you have to buy dlc chars and not only that buy the frame data dlc which should just be free. It is pretty bullshit to a new person who wants to lab shit.
One major flaw I see in Tekken as a whole is the juggling system. It feels like they are fighting on the moon. One juggle hit pops a character off the ground to extend to combo twice as long as it should be. For as realistic as the fighting tries to be the juggling system is cartoon-ish. The perfect fighting game juggle system is from Tobal 2. After launching a character their is no pop up on juggle hits. The trick is to repeatedly hit the character to delay them from falling. Not only take the physics are insane. You need perfect timing to do 10 hit juggles or the character will be knocked out of range. To get long combos you need to get characters to pinwheel in the air keeping them stationary in space.
I really love tekken but the community is so cancerous i haven't had a nontoxic interaction within the community besides ppl i already knew before i started playing
You're absolutely right about Tekken's difficulty being comparable to learning a language. You either played since young and know most of the moves by heart or you come in fresh having absolutely no clue on what to do. I think the franchise desperately needs an established in depth tutorial system that guides new players step-by-step on each of the game's mechanics. Eg. How to utilise wall splat, movement, sidestep, which moves are good for poking which are good for punish.
Totally agree coming from street fighter, king of fighter and mortal Kombat ( also soul calibur and Virtua Fighter) I have to say that Tekken Community is the worst above all! And the funny thing is that they all thing that they are playing the most difficult and demanding fighting game lol They thing that you have to know all the move list of all characters to be good... That's their level
I think the biggest problem of Tekken, the big variety, the way that every person can play one character differently is too the what makes the game so unique and so loved.
mainman really needs to watch some of the vods of that guy and see the relationship he has with his fans. he is like a mother that hates her child and poison drips it into codependency by tying their confidence to her shifting moods. its legit insane.
I never comment on videos normally, but this one is incredibly on the money. I'm 41 y/o and have been playing Tekken since the 90s and there are still M/U's that I get washed with. I'm no slouch at the game and play still pretty regularly. Asking a noob to start a Tekken from scratch, ESPECIALLY 7, that's a tall order. There's just to much to learn. Just my 2 cents.
I think my problem with Leffen is him playing the same fucking game despite him complaining and whining so much about it. Why is he putting himself through all of this “suffering?” He calls the community shit but I think it’s specifically his channel and people trying to get a reaction/rise out of him. The other channels I watch have great chatrooms and lots of supporters (imyourfather, arsenalty, kwiss, mainman, etc). Even some top level players were in his chat trying to help him out and teach him but he just ignored them, complained about having to learn how to counter “cheese” and told chat to kill themselves multiple times. If you come into a new FGC, whine about the game and quit; no one’s going to say anything. But if you continue to shittalk the community and game WHILE still playing the game, you’re just going to get trolled. Leffen is just bringing this onto himself imho
I’d always wanted to get into Tekken, I played TTT2 a lil bit. But that huge roster and huge move lists are seriously overwhelming. It would be cool to see Namco do a spin-off Tekken game with a smaller roster and more experimental mechanics like Tekken 4 (without the balance issues of that game lol) because it’d be closer to starting fresh but not abandoning fundamental tekken gameplay.
"This game is super unforgiving, it throws you knowledge checks all the time." Super true, but...isn't that why we love it? Isn't that what makes it so unique? Isn't that what gives you a sense of satisfaction, when you overcome a knowledge or matchup barrier? When you gradually level up and add experience and execution perks to your Tekken skill tree? Because that's why I love it.
For those who never watched his stream. He said Tekken is the golden turd in current FGCs. His main issues with the game that he complains 24/7: - to much character, with an average of 100 moves each. Needs to much learning. (True) - online is trash (True) - even high level is cheesy, and only pro level is 99% fundamental base (mosty True) - need to pay for frame data/lab dlc characters(True) - the Community shits on him on his stream, (True, but I feel like he only realizes the rotten apples in his chat, there are a lot of chill lads who only wants to help or enjoy the stream ) - he thinks the full game costs too much, he paid around 160$ for it. (Depends on people if Acceptable or Not)
Nah you're on his nuts. The MAIN thing he complains about is not knowing how to beat every character in every situation despite only playing for like 6 months
He hit it on the nail that Tekken 7 is so unforgiving that it is only going to be natural to feel the salt. This is coming from someone who has been playing since Tekken 1 on the PS1 and the game heavily favors those who have been legacy players throughout the whole series. Also that the fact that a lot of these people are probably the Arcade elites Who have that mentality that if you didn't suffer through the bullshit of learning things a certain way, then you have no right to judge or complain about the game. Which I call Bullshit, Because just because you dealt with it, doesn't mean it should work that way. Even with the current patches and updates, The game itself as whole package is still Inferior to previous titles. Training and Lab time is so bare bones compared to something like Mortal Kombat 11, where it makes you understand, why this mechanic works, how you can improve on the mechanic, and how you can punish said mechanic. Call leffen a filthy Casual but, when some characters move lists are enough to fill a fucking novel, then you know that is too much to remember, let alone just one character to even get decent at and sometimes half the moves in said move list pro players don't even bother to use to begin which already adds unnecessary bloated complexity .
Can we start pointing out his insane toxicity as well? Telling people to kill themself or that they are a waste of oxygen? When you make a video in which you protect someone, at least show some reasons WHY is he being attacked and not only 1 clip that is nitpicked. It obviously is not healthy to spam reddit threads on someone who tries to give good criticism, but don't just ignore the other side. Saying something dumb/obnoxious is not a reason to insult them to the oblivions, because then you are no better than them. And this is not about his opinion on the game, rather on his interaction with the community. Yes, the community might've reacted bad, so did Leffen with his tweets/recent actions.
I've actually said this about Tekken. While at its highest level the game isn't jank, there is an inherent jank gap players must overcome become of just how big characters movesets are. This is why the learning curve for Tekken can be so tough at intermediate because its as much about player skill as knowing how to counter said jank. And I think a lot of people, especially those who have been playing for 10 or 20+ years and have tons of legacy knowledge try to downplay that. That isn't to say Tekken needs to change as I think its important every fighting game has its own identity but it is what it is.
Frankly speaking, just try to master your character and know your character's moves well enough to do what you want the character to do at the right time. Is normal not to know the matchup, you just have to act accordingly. Is like a real fight of martial art, you won't be able to know what your opponent knows. You just have to be better at your own game to be better than your opponent. Having the lab is just a bonus to learn from the mistake, or be more prepared for the next time. No game is perfect, no human is perfect too.
I always wonder "where's MainMan?" when I click these videos. Luckily he always answers that question
💀
Huh?
Main man swe here
Wow tru
🤣🤣
I think the biggest reason people dislike Leffen, is not because he complains about cheese etc, but his general attitude towards people. He will call 90% of the people he play trash, have previously told people they are "waste of air, and should kill themselves" (Obviously this vod is removed). Sure i get that you can get salty at a game like tekken, especially when twitch chat is trolling. But for me its a matter of principles, that you dont say stuff like "go kill yourself" to anyone.
I personally dont care what Leffen thinks about tekken, its his personal opinion, even though i think he is delusional when he says he is fundamentally better than many top players at the game. But it doesnt bother me, what bothers me is that he gets rewarded (by getting views) for saying these horrible things (trashtalking people).
Up you go.
That has always been his thing. To trash talk.
It's not like many other streamers gained fame partially because of trash talking. TMM and Aris are prime examples. They used to talk shit like crazy during ttt2 days.
@@Shibu_PL Times have changed since then though. Also its the severity of the trash talk imo combined with that 90% of his content is trashtalk. Sure, tekken communty have some elitism and toxicity like most gaming communities, but if you are Leffen, can you really call other people toxic?
@@Shibu_PL that dosen't mean it's right too or you can keep doing it cuz both TMM and Aris changed althought it's more so for Aris than TMM but there will amways be a limit
Leffen constantly complains about everything in the game and quite literally calls everything cheese. He is inconsistent in his definition of something he hates and acts extremely hypocritical by complaining about "cheese" other characters have and even went to the extent of denying that his character (Zafina) has any good cheese. His review a few months ago was okay but I think he's starting to crack since he's spent so much time in the game and is now building up some Dunning-Kruger and is starting to take out unbased frustration out on super petty things.
When you watch a stream and the guy is throwing around the word cheese literally every 50 seconds you start to wonder if the person you're watching is being properly receptive of the game. The clip you show alone isn't bad, but when you watch his stream for over three hours you'll realize how inconsistent his point of view is when he starts making negative comments about every match he's in.
Sounds like he gave into the cheese if he switched out Kazumi for Zafina
@@trezayngounder558 He, not even kidding, claimed that Zafina's cheese isn't as bad because it does "little damage".
Sinic Breh I just got zafina like a week ago and she’s mostly “cheese” if cheese means having more than one stance with mixups and pressure. Oh yeah and she’s got the best movement too. Yeah anybody who plays zafina and denies the fact that she’s a slippery deceptively strong character is probably lying to themselves about it as well
His mods said that leffen fights cheese with cheese and thats why he plays zafina
It's not what Leffen has to say about Tekken. It's just Leffens attitude towards everything that is the problem
What an annoying guy, i cant stand him, he just complains, should stick to smash.
It is not a problem at all. People give him way too much attention. This got stretched way more than it should have.
The attention given to this Drama if given to the small channels of Tekken content creators or streamers it may have changed their lives.
@@LucasMartins-dy6no look I'm defending leffen and toxic behavior but most people do not realize he's won tournaments in multiple fighting games. His biggest achievements were in smash to my knowledge, but to say that in a means to discredit or invalidate is just ignorant. The only issue I have with the hivemind saying what you said in your comment is the lack of acknowledgement in that regard. Other than that I agree, Twitter shitting in general isn't going to get anyone anywhere.
@@Prohxyy Jtbc, im not one of the guys who harrass him online, i dont watch any streams only yt, but ive seen many instances wich he was wrong and acted like a fuck boy (no problem with that) but then goes and cry in twitter like his the victim, cant take the heat? Stay out of the kitchen...this is not only because of tekken, he acts the same way about every drama hes involved, i respect the player but the guy is sooo annoying, theres a loud minority of scrubs, toxicity will remain if we keep adressing them.
@@LucasMartins-dy6no no I understand that.
Dang I never really thought about how in touch TMM is with newer players. As someone who started this game 5 months ago as my first tekken, and has literally only been able to play a single character competently after 100+ hours, I really appreciate that my feelings have been validated. Game is good, but theres so. much. STUFF. There's like he said, information checks all of the time, and if you dont happen to know a specific string or move, BAM counterhit, BAM, launch, BAM, youre punished. And even if you CAN lab the character, you just saw a random person spamming or something good luck figuring out WHICH of the 100 moves/ strings they were spamming. I love playing this game but I agree with a lot of the points made.
If Leffen played Tekken off stream, he would have a better time. Playing Tekken on stream as a well known public figure is just asking to be sniped/trolled and it's just a risk he'll have to live with.
Yeah, that shit legit made Aris quit Tekken.
@@bennymountain1 Hey now, Aris played ranked yesterday
That doesn't give him subs and money
@@cholt9726 I'm sure he's fully aware. Playing Tekken isnt the main reason people watch Leffen, so if he wants to climb without getting snipe, he can play it off stream. Any other game he plays will net him the usually views, money, and subs.
Is this a Philosophical video?
Are we going deep into the concept of "what is perfection?"
Does Lars need buffs?
lars needs nerf cuz he has to repent for the crime that is his hair
Ah yes, the big questions!
Will i eat stir fry or chicken tendies tonight?
"Was Gigas's nerfs justified? Does he need more unbuffs?"
No, let T7 be our much deserved break from Lars, so let's enjoy it while it lasts.
My fellow gentleman, let us pontificate on this intriguing subject. What are buffs, and why does Lars need them DESPERATELY?
This is so accurate , newbies when trying to learn the game I feel bad for them , because Tekken has to much moves and characters , but lack in online quality gaming , like super slow loading time etc...
I reach raijin n I feel like I reach my max because I only see characters that I don't recognize and it's impossible to escape the cheese on this game , there are stupid string characters that with 50/50 and get one launch you're death it's stupid
This the upper ranks are not even fun because people pick BS characters to spam and death combo don't even mention the lag switchers. I've lost count at how many people will drop from a four bar down to a one bar the second they lose a round with no penalty. I don't even enjoy winning some matches against certain characters because I literally hate playing against them, I like the game but Tekken 5 DR is a far better game if people still played it I wouldn't have got six or seven.
This is the only thing that leffen said that is correct thank god you guys are actually focusing on that
He complains constantly while playing. Like, waaaay too much. I really like when he plays Smash but the moment he switches to Tekken it's time to watch some other guy.
Idk if he does it less now but he used to complain a ton about Ultimate.
Leffen is still a person I don't really understand.
If he complain so much about the game he can leave, nice knowing you, Yet he still plays it.
He can say whatever he wants, in the end I'm happy (kinda) to see a player from another community play Tekken.
And it's obvious that Tekken 7 is not Perfect, nothing is.
It's only a fighting game that was in the right place at the right time, and did really well, not like other fighting games.
I tuned in one of his streams and honestly he is so rude. Even if a person in chat is just saying his/her opinion he is going thrash that person because he or she is not as good as him therefore to him, the opinion is invalid.
For those who know Leffen from the smash community, his critique of a game's weak points are not Tekken exclusive. He does trash talk Smash and it's community too and he gets the same amount of backlash. He just has a tendency to speak his true thoughts. So simply hear him out, but dont take it to heart. The Tekken community is taking his words way too personally.
Mimicdess The problem is a lot of his complaints are simply just stupid, and a result of him just not being as good at the game as other people. Calling Bryan a cheesy character? What? 😂 it’s because he doesn’t know the matchup! That’s why it’s different than his critique of the game he usually plays.
Have you seen a League of Legends player? They talk so much shit about the game, but they're addicted to it like crack. Also, in a more positivel light, the most passionate people are the most critical. Constructively, of course.
I complain so much about Tekken about pluggers and cheaters and what not but hey I still play it. He's the same as some of us and he even gets a much harder time being a streamer cause he will get sniped almost all of the time.
Yeah it really hit home when he talked about how bloated and difficult it is to find the answer to cheese or just strings in general. I come from Mortal Kombat and one great thing nether realm does is a pretty amazing practice mode. I see some bullshit, I instantly jump to practice and almost instantly know how to counter without scrolling through hundreds of strings trying to find the one I need to lab
No, not really. Mortal Kombat has lower amount of strings/bs compared to Tekken. Tekken simply outnumbers mortal kombat. But I agree, that a better training range should be here
@@ravenpines tekken has low amount of strings compared to tekken? Im confused 🤔
@@ravenpines what?
You either learn it or you don't. Its like language, you may have the system in check, but if your vocabulary is lacking , then the conversation may not sound stellar.
@@thebestintheworldfgc yeah im dumb lol. fixed that
He said that fundamentally he is about the same as tekken pros, it is just that he does not know a lot of strings and setups, and thus he cannot compete fairly with them without that knowledge. I wish someone like Knee would play against him and use only 1-4 moves, so that he cannot make the knowledge excuse. I have seen Knee beating Sodam by just using only a single move the entire match.
I dont have anything serious against Leffen but comparing yourself to pro players that have been playing the game for 20+ years seems pretty extreme honestly. Leffen obviously is a great overall player but come on, thats just arrogant. I cant really stand his attitude towards others. It seems like he is pissed because for once he doesnt instantly "rise" to the top.
@@EddieMorphling I’ve always heard that he’s pretty annoying and toxic, even in smash so it never was surprising
@@CherryDKaya but leffen in person isn’t always a toxic brat. it was a character he played up in the smash community
He already lost, his a smash player lul
@@DarkOminigiri still better than you at probably every fighter tho rip
I'm glad I brought up him defending you in your streams, because your perspective is always great. Being able to look at multiple opinions about a subject is probably your biggest strength. I love Tekken, I've been a fanboy since playing as a toddler in the 90s. Tekken has it's issues and we as a community need to realize this and have these conversations so we can push for changes that make the game better for everyone. You're a legend MainMan. Leffen, is certainly not my favorite person in the FGC Community, but he's grown a lot and he has earned my respect. This may not mean much to either of you, but it's people like you guys that change the community and even the game for the better
Tekken's appeal is it redundant complexity. Much how the original Dark Souls was redundantly unforgiving. CSGO is redundantly demanding of map knowledge and training your aim. People love these games because of these things.
no game is perfect. one man's treasure is another man's trash.
That’s definitely true.
actually 5 head take .
I love this take
Nice try. All you did was reverse the words
@Abdul Shah
Now that is a big no no
Toxicity breeds toxicity. This clearly wasn’t about legit game complaints. But to each their own.
honestly, there is like 5% that don't skip intros and kicharge ( we've all been there) but most of the tekken community adds each other does lobbies gives tips,
i think the problem is twitter and reddit haha
why skip intros at the first match? it's cool.
there should be a auto skip intro/outro option in the game menu for online
He gets sniped, so it's probably more than 5% for him.
Dude, intro/otro are more like a break to me to hydrate and checking texts. It’s not that frustrating.
"I just need MU knowledge but I mean that's the game, I know that most top level players are not.. better than me fundamentally they just have.. a lot of cheese on me, and I feel like if I learned the common MUs I could definitely compete with a lot of them, the game isn't that complicated or hard once you know the shit but I don't know the shit."
Leffen has been genuinely dumping on this game and the community, that's why we feel like chatting shit about him especially because he holds so much sway and everyone will otherwise pander to him because of it. Everybody agrees that the game is bloated but it gets to the point where he questions fundamental mechanics and the community's attitude as a whole (because it's more "toxic" than smash- which is to say it's just not totally PC). Where there's smoke, there's fire.
Mu?
@@ThomasfromDenmark1 matchup :)
True though, fundamentals in this game are quite restricted. Movement is capped at l medium skill ceiling and raw fundamentals aren't that hard to understand. The matchup knowledge and strategising against a character is REALLY hard in my opinion. On top of that some characters are really complicated and hard to understand, for example hworang feels like a different character everytime he changes stance. I think the character depth (and bloating) + matchups make up maybe 70-80% of a player's skill. If you look at the actual game systems, combos, low parries, blocking, poking ect, it's actually on a quite basic level whereas 2D fighters have much more in terms of global systems. I think what he means is that, he has learned the global systems at a very high level, aka fundamentals, but he is struggling with the stupid amount of stuff you just "need to know" in order to compete. Thanks for coming to my ted talk.
@@lifenote1943 I think the knowledge checks and matchups are needlessy complex and add nothing but frustration and tedious lab to the game, compared to the fundamental options you have. This game is like if chess had more exceptions than rules, you spend a ridiculously small time playing with those rules compared to the amount of time you spend learning the exceptions, and it can be very frustrating and stupid. Tekken would be far better with a small cast with 50~60 moves each (but they're all useful and highly specialized, instead of having multiple catch-all options and a bunch of trash gimmick moves), and a greater emphasis on fundamentals (Punishment, movement, timing, etc).
@@caiobruno8006 Yeah, a way I thought about it was: you have to learn all the cheese and bull shit, but once you play at a high level you never see it again. It's kind of funny that you have to learn all these knowledge checks that aren't used to high level play. So it's just a waste of time imo, you're not actually getting better in any way.
I've been playing a lot of sc2, that game has a lot of cheese too, but at least the cheese is actually important in professional play. They are legitimate strats and a core part of the game.
In tekken the complexity is only there because it's there.
Oh and yeah fuck catch all options, it's so dumb that you can input one move that beats 40 moves. Just makes the characters so bland. Like paul is basically just Df2 and qcf 3. They both high crush on top of being insane moves.
You're actively lying to yourself if you think Tekken in its current state is perfect.
*L E R O Y*
F A H K U M R A M
I CANNOT MOVE
I GET ROBBED
ALL YOU CAN DO IS G U E S S
Bruh who thinks that
Learn the match up
So i randomly tuned in to his stream to see him eating Bryan's Snake Edge multiple times and then bitching about it... LOL no more needs to be said.
Lol, if i see that too my reaction would be "uuhhmm, okay???"
@@deniantonius4208 how u gonna complain after eating a seeable low telegraphed launcher 😂 like damn Leffen, thats on you man
Exactly. He’s a whiny bitch. Didn’t like him before he even touched tekken
Are you trying to say that noone has ever eaten snake edges and bitched about it? or are you expecting streamers to be transcendant humans who have no emotion and pander to sensitive people?
I checked out the stream for a good hour and watched him eat the same 2 lows repeatedly without a single low parry. No throw breaks. The worst getup choices, etc.
I agree that training in Tekken is difficult. However, Leffen ought to be using it to build that muscle memory for the FUNDAMENTALS before he tries to figure out all the frame data.
Not enough people talk about the fact that YOU HAVE TO BUY THE CHARACTER TO LAB THEM. I don't like Ganryu, I won't play Ganryu. Then why are you forcing me to buy him to just lab him ?
This is backwards thinking and if EA or Activision have done something like this the outrage will be huge.
This is a fgc issue I dont understand why cant I just feel the character out. Ik its because they dont want me to demo them and figure out what characters I want. Which is BS
Not a valid argument. There are very few games that allow you to play a dlc character that you haven't paid for.
You can't do it in FighterZ, you can't do it in SFV(anymore), you can't do it in MK11, you couldn't do it in MKX, you couldn't do it in MK9, you couldn't do it in BBtag, you couldn't do it in SFIV, you couldn't do it P4Arena, you couldn't do it in Street Fighter X Tekken etc, et-fucking-c.
The only games you can do that in are ones that have a rotating base of characters to play, and that's only in the demo/trial versions of them as well like DOA5 & 6, or Killer Instinct.
Fuck, there are actual issues here like paying for frame data. Complain about that, but this is an argument I've heard time and time again and it's just one of the dumbest fucking things I've ever heard.
@@mikealangeloy I never said I wanted to play the character for Free. I said I wanted to LAB the character for FREE & no practice mode is not the same as playing in online or offline mode. having this problem in other games doesn't mean its should be excusable.
(Tekken has a shite netcode, Oh will its fine because SFV, DBZ, GuiltyGearXrd, BBTAG don't have a good net code so it's fine). See the problem with your argument.
And Just because I bring one issue doesn't mean I don't hate the idea that frame data is behind a paywall as well.
But with characters locked its more of a problem because it becomes a disadvantage due to matchup knowledge being a core element in Tekken. Watching a video and labbing the character yourself is not the same at all.
@@MuzzYADam Labbing a character can be seen as "playing" the character therefore companies have no incentive of you "lab for free" also it would hampered their sales tremendously if they did let ppl do that.
Tekken players need to stop asking for this.
@@mikealangeloy the basis of tekken is labbing a character and learning the punish. How are u supposed to learn learn the frame data if you cant lab it. Each character has about 100 moves minimum. So how can you learn animations and frames without having to buy the character first. Atleast you can go to TZ to learn the frame data, but it dont mean shit if you can't physically lab it.
Seriously, you can't play Zafina then whine about cheesy characters
Exactly
I commented that days ago on his stream and he silenced me...
It's not only about him being salty or pointing out flaws, I mean we already know how flawed Tekken is.The thing is you can't expect to not get trolled if you eat Bryan's snake edge at breakfast and dinner while constantly shitting on the game,this one is on you Leffen.And throwing personal attacks while boasting you being a pro Smash player when somebody is trying to point out your mistakes is a huuuuge mistake,isnt it son?
Leffens rage is on him but i have watched how tekken players 'point out mistakes' in his chat. neither side is civil. quit giving him clicks if you really dont like it
@@LovelyToaster well,for your kind information,I tuned on his channel only once and it was my last.I can't afford to lose my precious time watching crybabies.Sorry if you were offended in any way Sir.
Sebastien Hahn just adding my two cents. i replied because i think you have a good point about how he deals with getting hit by snake edge or missing low parries ie he just rages and calls it cheap or the other person bad for spamming it.
@@LovelyToaster that's the whole point its one thing to rage, it's another to rage when you can't deal with something and you talk down on the game and it's players. It's immature and bitchy.
@@WavyJayZ i agree with all that but i dont think you can go that hard on a man in his own stream. thats sorta the point. tekken players are tuning into the stream of this confirmed villain and expecting him to suddenly be humble or something?? Tekken greatness speaks for itself, hope leff nuts up and realizes that and grinds it for real instead of just making excuses when hes challenged.
I respectfully disagree with u mainman. There’s many aspects why Leffen should be chastised for his behaviour especially someone with his status. His attitude towards other players when giving him criticism, that holier than thou thinking especially when he’s not even that experienced with the game but speaks like he’s an expert just coz he’s a good smash player. If you have a platform like he does, it’s basically spreading misinformation coz of his frustration at the game. If he was just some random player with no followers, it’s okay to be as salty and bitchy as he is, but when you have a platform and have no experience on how to play the game, the ‘rants’ come off as churlish and unjust
He had a point when he asked "what is being added by calling him a bitch on Reddit?"
Someone with his size and audience can use that as ammo against online Tekken communities and give his fans proof that the Tekken community is horrible.
If a good example was set, he'd have that much less to complain about.
Yup , exactly .It's not what Leffen has to say about Tekken. Personally , i liked watching him play. But not anymore, it's just Leffens attitude towards everything and the way he says it.
He even said to someone "just go d*e if you're going to send me shitty combo" because a random dude sent him a complicated combo he was dropping everytime.
or they can just suck it up and realise he's just a human with a camera no?
The idea that Smash skill translates over to any other fighting game is the biggest thing holding him back. They are entirely different games. There are plenty of high level players from other games (MKX, MVCU, KOF, Soul Caliber) that can play at equally high level in Tekken. This is not the case for Smash for better or worse.
I thought about it a bit and I think Leffen is doing it so he can prove Smash is a real fighting game. If he can get top rank in Tekken well it shows a foundation of Smash got him there, some shit like that. But if he can't get top rank well Tekken has a toxic community and is a trash game, he wins either way. /s
Honestly if someone plays a game and they say it stupid or dumb yet they don't leave and quit the game, means they don't hate the game.
Leffen: its not i like tekken b-baka!!!
Tekken 7’s biggest mistake was giving everyone crazy damage now if you guess wrong twice you die.
I hate this kind of mindset when there is so much stuff you just can react to. Normal punishable launchers usually do ~50% 60-70% if counter hit, then you are at the wall and you have to at least eat 3-4 fast low pokes to die usually. The 2 hits to death is just scrubs eating shit on counter hit snake edges on 3-4 bar connections and the game is just not balanced around online except for maybe throw breaking. When you see high lvl play, the rounds are so much harder to close out.
You must be new here..tekken has always been like that
Tekken community is a bunch of chill dudes as far as I've seen. They just don't like stuck up attitudes like him.
Lucky you
Depends where you go imo. Discord is full of really cool guys. Reddit is the hellhole. Those guys light you up for the slightest difference of opinion on the most menial stuff.
@@coolcool5181 people just shit on me because I play LC, Noctis and Leo. On UA-cam comment sections. Some people really represent tekken community to a new player as whiny and salty af
I agree with you. I started learning tekken like two weeks ago and its been nice with other people. The mortal kombat community on the other hand is absolutely terrible in my experience, and I've been playing those games for about 6 years
@@jespinoza1421 same I had some trolling people, but afterwards they would tell me what I did wrong and was chilled. Unlike mk which was just toxic
Honestly , I don’t see the point in complaining bout Tekken. Everybody knows it’s a hard game, and every community is toxic, so why even complain? This isn’t even a “git gud” thing, just a “it’s whatever” thing I guess lol
no game is perfect. Tekken 7 is amazing. Been playing it since release. But took a long break from it. For the topic. Its twitter tho. Everyone is an ass on twitter.
Raspotnik me too, I played tekken when it was released. When I started playing that game I instantly fell in love with it, and it took me a long time to understand the frames, the characters, the moves, etc and I got good with it a few years, but yeah i had to take a long break from it too, cuz when ever I lose the game I became a salty cry baby really I was very stressed from losing but then I realized ‘is just a game, don’t get mad about it’ that’s what I would say to myself...
I absolutely love T7, and the knowledge checks - good term btw - and cheese is moderately annoying, but I know that it's on me, for the most part, to learn and adapt. But yeah I take fairly extensive notes and I'll take 2-3 months away from the game, this year I took like 5 months off because I was playing other games and spending time on other hobbies. I came back to it a month ago and got back instantly hooked lol.
if only tekken 8 introduced some sort of matchup trial mode that drills the player against a fine tuned cpu that plays to the strenghths of the character they choose. it could go slow mo whenever the cpu throws out something like a snake edge, or some big commital high, and it should also give you a detailed description of a characters game plan and how to beat it.
tekken is a complex game don't expect it to hold your hand through the whole game, that's what makes tekken TEKKEN
@@DXRKMDE01 nah i think most pros agree that a roster that big needs better training tools.
If he didn't want to duck Fauk's kick, I could imagine him playing Virtua Fighter. Particular moves, usually tracking and moves with pushback (You duck or evade respectively some* ) he would get rung out because whilst blocking the characters body move. VF favors constant decision making on defense and offense whilst understanding risk/reward and your frame data. Medium sized roster, you learn in-match right away. Need to lab? Free frame data, all stages types are there, a reaction based dummy system to do their universal and unique move. You can keep fresh by simply watching the Japanese and then your matches.
With respect to the situation the world is in, I understand all he has is online. But why is he playing online ranked and dealing with stream monsters, and letting that be his impression of the community? People who LOVE Tekken and have played it for years don't love online ranked. The vitriol to him is unwarranted, but painting the community with broad strokes cause of a toxic online experience is what bothers me. We're all learning the game, veteran and new players alike. The mountain to climb that is Tekken's meta is both daunting and exciting, but he acts like it's an issue it even exists. Fair enough, fair criticism, but some people are okay with that. He can't expect to be good at the game within a year, when people have spent years just trying to compete at a decent level.
He is too impatient. That's his root problem here.
these "tekken zealots" usually can't break my King's bridge
Honestly I’m seeing more of “The game isn’t perfect, Leffen just thinks he’s too perfect for the game” so I can understand why people are mad
I still think constantly getting at him isn’t necessary
I love your videos main man been here since tag 2
I think Leffen with his issues of Tekken being complex, that's it's legacy heavy etc. If you made it more like the games he played, Tekken would lose it's identity. I agree with labbing DLC is BS but how many games actually let you lab the DLC, if anyone knows? The frame data DLC should have 100% been free.
I think Tekken is in it's own lane a little bit, you can't change too much without stripping it's identity, there should be more focus on better modes, network enhancements, QoL adjustments and some well made tutorials that are engaging. If you don't like the game then you simply don't play it. A good example is how everyone reacted to the hellsweep buff, you change legacy moves or chars and people lose their shit, obvs that was a bad change but just an example of one.
Obviously this is just my opinion, so w.e
It isn't a huge number of games but both Rivals of Aether and Killer Instinct allow you to practice DLC characters IIRC. Besides FighterZ which allows it through Body Change from Ginyu in offline and online modes but it isn't really "practice" mode any way you slice it.
Someone else may be able to name some, but it isn't like it is a hard feature to implement. It is just a possibility that gets ignored like Rollback.
Definitely too many characters and the people who plays the chars then get ultra cry baby mode when they are not in anymore.
@@Zlatko815 yeah agreed with that, Tekken 7 should never have got to the roster size of TTT2, considering that's a 2v2 game as well.
@@thelastgogeta thanks man, I actually didn't know that about KI.
@@MrDxfusion Yeah so in Tag 2 you had more chances of learning the other matchups because everyone played 2.
IF you stumbled upon this video today, you should watch "Leffen: A Liar and a Fraud" vid. Basically this dude sh*t talks the game and attacks anybody, but when he's finally getting the heat and the people are catching on to his BS, Leffen plays the victim. This is a normal reaction from him and is something I do not like from somebody.
He has called TK time and time again a "Cheese" game and that it's a bad game, even when he is not tilted or playing Tekken. From what I can see here is Leffen is bad at the game, but he vents his frustrations on the game and blames his own shortcomings on it. It's not the game that's bad, he is, and that's ultimately the problem here.
The way I think about Tekken, it is a product and the players are the customers. Leroy and Fukumran were total disrespect of customers
Its mostly the Western audience that takes it too personally when people say Tekken has problems.
I've seen fellow Asian people don't get mad when people criticize Tekken.
Look on Reddit, they all hail Harada as a god and support his "don't ask me for shit" phrase when people want basic quality-of-life upgrades in the game. You can see them gatekeeping beginners with their "git gud" attitudes.
no they don't, they ask for new characters everyday, and ask for Kiryu shit every day on reddit and twitter, its never about substantive things
I agree, reading newer player asking valid question been reply with "git gud"/"hey alright" is a turn of for me
@@helloimvic7451 Aris fans are something else
no asian player or content creator would dare to behave as arrogantly as leffen.
Exactly, the Eastern audience is way more calmer than the Western audience. Westerners are hard-core geeks lmbo.
the most absolute reasonable approach anyone has taken so far, big amount of respect to TMM as well as also appreciate that he acknowledged that Dyrus also had a pretty similar experience when he first started playing Tekken aka getting bombarded with jims when he's trying to play the game
So yesterday, I played against a Devil Jin player. Whenever he would go into Fly, I immediately applied delayed hopkick to try and punish him.
The thing about this is, that this has never happened to me before which made me very proud of myself for successfully reacting to his stance.
So I absolutely agree with TMM and Leffen, that despite knowing a certain character’s move, you also must be able to recognize it through muscle memory to punish it, which I now realize comes from multiple encounters and experiences with that character.
This game, no matter what anyone says, is 100% bloated. But that is the Tekken franchise’s charm IMO. The moveset dosen’t change and experience is key, almost like a REAL sport.
I'm a smash player who appreciates tekken and sees the beauty in it's complexity (for the really strong players)
I haven't personally played it myself , but enjoy watching the content.
This video really made me like you. Objectivity like this is refreshing from a top-tier player in any scene.
Hats off my friend
We pretty late to this video arent we?
Just like my response to your comment
Right you are haha
The problem I have is if it were any other no name streamer getting trolled in chat, no one would care. But because its Leffen, the world is supposed to treat him different. He victimizes himself because he's not on the top of the food chain, people feed off that. People troll him the same reason people troll LTG. Being humble goes a long way.
I mean he's legit LTG In terms of shit attitude
Traditionally speaking, the way you learned the entire roster was to do marathon Mokujin matchups. That character existed specifically to make the knowledge check overhead palatable. The current version made a huge mistake removing them, and also made a huge mistake allowing game mechanics to make it a huge chore to get variety in general on top of that. I can't get a new player matchup reliably even when I opt out of a rematch, can't change characters between matchups without exiting all the way back to the main menu, and can't opt to roll again on stage when rematching. All of these are lost opportunities to practice in a well rounded way, and the series always had approachable mechanics to handle this in previous games that are absent now. Put all of that back, it doesn't work without it.
I think it works 2 ways. The majority of leffens chat is quite tame. Your usual twitch chat. The issue is, you have a few people that will write twitter/reddit posts and bring the rest of us down. However, its very frustrating to tekken players, listening to leffen call all knowledge checks, cheese. Such as dragunovs b4,3 or his command grab. And he won't listen to any advice other than from what I've seen to be 'verified' players. This is what I've gathered from seeing his stream only a few times.
This really shows why hes a good man and a good father. He has like we in Germany say, the horizon for moral and ethics. Good man.
this feels very cherrypicked though
nobody reasonable is complaining about the clips of leffen being shown here, clearly there is more to him than this, I don't know what because I don't use much twitch
but if the tekken community was really this bad, then sonicfox would have been driven out long ago, everyone would have, but it's only leffen
if I had to put my theory in
Leffen thinks the tekken community is the worst community, because he can't respond to hate by saying I'm a pro, he knows he's not even a high level player yet, and because becoming a high level player takes so long in this game, he's frustrated at the game and the audience, and keeps making everyone angry
1 in 50 chance of meeting the character that gave you trouble
You meet a Lei they bamboozle yoi with cheese you go back to the lab study for weeks
Now youre ready
You just have to wait another year till you meet another lei
But in that time prepare for zafina hwoarang eddy xiaoyu julia ganryu and all the other characters with potent cheese
10:00 yup. A lot of people stated that as the reason why Rangchu won a tournament with panda... he had a lot of practice with that match up, and his opponents were like "huh, how does this matchup go? I can't remember!"
Tekken has always had a little bit of gimmicks and cheese, but its got worse over the years. thats the problem, they keep pushing to 11 on every new character lol.
You think it's gotten worse? Tekken 7 one of the must balanced tekken games vs like tekken 3 or 5 or any ttt lol
coolunusual tekken 7 is a buttfuck of characters, cheesy moves(ra and rd included), and the longest most damaging combos ever. Its not balanced. Its just not. Its on a new level of gimmicks and laggy bullshit compared to other tekkens.
@@EaastonCams it is still literally more balanced than old tekken games
@@EaastonCams I could kick a Leroy player's ass with Gigas if I wanted to try to do that in older games with similarly powered characters. That's been primarily an issue with newer dlc characters.
@@EaastonCams TTT2 would like a word
So quick question for my fight stick nerds like my self. Is there a restriction gate or a Joystick with a smaller restriction gate ? To put it in the easiest to understand lingo. Is there a joystick or restriction gate that stops the fight stick as soon as it “clicks” with out the extra slack after the “click”
Soulcalibur 6 as a similar issue, although that game has fewer characters but every character has more uniqueness to them then Tekken chars have which are a bit more uniform.
I feel like Tekken, ever since tag 2, has required a lot of dedication to get better at. Like a lot of games, but many feel it’s unnecessary to have this much training needed. I never felt overwhelmed. I feel like if you play enough and practice your character enough, you can learn match ups as time goes on. You just have to catch on quickly during fights
Name one game where you can lab dlc characters without buying them. I've never seen it.
Dragon Ball FighterZ kinda, sorta has this. You have this exploit where a character called Captain Ginyu can swap bodies with an enemy character. So you essentially steal that character from the other player/CPU. The exploit was that there are game modes where you can encounter DLC characters, so you can steal those characters and play with them that way. It's not a lab/practice mode by any means though.The Tekken equivalent would be like if you could encounter the DLC characters in treasure battle, and then use Yoshi (if he had a move like that - and he would be the character to have a move like that) to swap characters.
@@RJALEXANDER777 that's one way to get around it but it isnt always guaranteed that you'd nail the body swap. Plus that'd allow you to play as the character, not learn how to fight against em. My point is there isn't a game where you can outright lab a character you don't own whenever you want. All of Leffen's criticism's i've seen for Tekken were valid except for that one. Tekken's tough af (especially when compared to smash) but complaining ab buying dlc chars to lab them isn't a valid complaint
For Honor. I know that might not count as a fighting game and a ton of people say it's garbage even to this day, but labbing characters without buying them is a thing in For Honor.
@@scatman1236 that's officially the best thing i've ever heard Ubisoft do then.
@@MarqyMarq And that is fact.
u have to read between the lines. yes, the exact complaint TMM quoted from Leffen was a fair complaint by Leffen, but you read between the lines. E.g., when a woman says something, do they always simply mean the exact words they said? No. Leffen made a legit complaint, but he is trying to shift all the blame to the complaints he made. Does he critique his own skills with equal frequency as he complains about the game, or does he always blame the game when he loses? What is the ratio? If the ratio is highly imbalanced, but he is losing to other online rank players (not pros), then that means his ratio is skewed. So, what is his true intention?
He plays because he wants to be able to have bragging rights one day, but as long as that day doesn't come, he will keep trying, while blaming the game. the problem is that tekken is taking waaaaay to long for him to get there, so now he has deep rooted complaints about tekken, but not other games. it's the type of ppl that pisses you off, because they brag all the time, but when they get humbled, they refuse to act humbled and try to brag their way through. Leffen is clearly playing tekken to reach the end of the tunnel one day, but he isn't anywhere close, so meanwhile, if he can't act humbled, he's gotta point out the flaws of the game. So, yeah, the complaints he keeps legit, but why is he whining nonstop? the motive/intent is to shift the blame, until the day comes when he gets good, then he can brag (plus brag how he overcame the stuff he complained about). it's a common tactic used by ppl who has too much pride and can't eat humble pie.
So, while the complaint TMM quoted was a legit complaint, Leffy's constant whining has another motive that really annoys ppl. Anyone who has a friend like that would get annoyed. Why is TMM defending Leffen? I think TMM is just doing this to keep Leffen in the Tekken scene. Also, because TMM isn't experiencing his whining first hand, so he doesn't realise Leffen is doing the typical annoying salty gamer thing.
in addition, ppl don't flame TMM when TMM said it in the past. TMM did not address this. why did they flame leffen? because they knew what leffen was doing. also, leffen began criticizing the first time he tried tekken, as a newb. when a newcomer comes, starts losing, and immediately starts blaming the game, that is a completely differently message. if leffen didn't look like he was being a sore loser, ppl would react differently. sore losers are easy to spot and also easily annoy ppl. that's it.
imagine if leffen was losing, but instead he said, "wow, just how complicated is this game?" but he doesn't give any context that he is being a sore loser. then i bet the chat would instead say, "yea, u can't win if u don't lab", "keep it up man", etc. *they would say why leffen is losing for leffen, so leffen doesn't have to say it. when u don't act like a sore loser and make the same complaint, ppl will defend u. but when u immediately say every excuse yourself, nonstop, and look salty af, ppl pick up on that and call u out.*
leffen was clearly acting like the ONLY reason he couldn't become god at this game was because he wasn't a legacy player. he tried to disregard all the pros by implying that they are better because they are legacy players. that doesn't explain how online casuals are beating him. he was complaining so much, but never even tried to think his movement isn't that great, etc. he actually already started praising himself about learning kazumi combos already on his first stream, like he mastered the game and even said the game is not hard, but the movelist made him lose.
u can see him acting like a sore loser, while bragging, very easily. this would've happened to any other game he's not good at. it just happened that he's not good at tekken. all communities flame sore losers. he just excelled at the other games too fast that he didn't have enough chances to act like a sore loser.
There is no perfect game and a discussion like that will always be subjective, because in order for you to think a game is perfect, it needs to appeal to you in very specific ways, personally, I've always really liked fighting games and specifically, 3D fighting games, there was something about the grounded and semi-realistic nature to them that really sucked me in and fascinated me, I think that a perfect game to appeal to me would be a combination of relatively simple gameplay yet complex and deep system for a 3D fighting game, with mostly design that is down to earth yet has some fantastical elements to it, which is why my favorite games are always Tekken and Virtua Fighter installments.
unless you play leroy or fahk as a beginner. s3 will be unforgiving to you.
I am using noctis to get used to commands,but i have a bad dpad and db sometimes goes out as either d or b and im on the verge of giving up
Paul also works as a solid beginner character if you wanna go with a legacy character. Heavily populated online as he's a perfect character for circumventing labbing. Everything launches or does huge damage while being relatively safe or hard for lower ranked players to step or punish. Plus df2 call out to bail you out of anything you're scared of.
It sure is
1:53 Umm, actually salt is a a cooking ingredient.
It feels like playing mid/high level Tekken 7 is like racing cars, but every new session it's a random car you drive, a random track/layout, random weather, and it variates between all the different kinds of race cars/models.
You and your opponent fighting in Tekken is like dealing with your car, the track, and whatever bad things that might happen during racing, then swapping it all around in the next race.
The Tekken Gandalf already spoken his wise to us
Watch the Gizou Gitai Tekken retrospective series. They are great.
I'll give it a go.
You are SEVERLY downplaying what Leffen is saying. He's saying far worse things than just talking about gamemechanics and whatnot.
Can you give some examples of what he said?
^
"Amazing: Player finds things he like and things he doesn't like at videogame and then complains about the ones he doesn't. Tune in at 8pm to find out more."
I HOPE YOU ARE ALSO DOING AWESOME MAINMAN!!! 🥊💀❤️
I wish people could compete with the 20 yrs of knowledge ogs have with matchups
Tekken is hard as of playing this game over 10 years+ it takes time to learn everything but this what i liked about it the challenge of the skill level and learning the key to movement and your own playstyle and mindgames and the best of all the execution ,games were made to have fun and if you want to be good at tekken you have to be with it for the long run!!!!
There’s also frame data apps and spread sheet
There are a lot more "tekken zealots" than you think lol.
Nah just a few vocal minority that are crazy
Its usually the stupid ones.
A lot are in the comment section
@@JamBadguy lmao
They're just more vocal and brainless
To be honest I just don’t get some of his reasons for disliking it considering it’s just “I can’t get good fast”
But to bully him for it is honestly overboard
"have u seen this, have u seen this" hmm accurate..
to be fair tekken twitter, and reddit are literal cancer. i just stopped posting and looking at both. him not liking tekken is fair. and i think vocal members of the community may not help
eggsmash finally someone that gets it
I complain constantly when I play, I think a lot of people do we just ain't on camera.
I agree with you on this one. Theres just far too much hate and not enough understanding
so he's got a problem with labbing? lol so what do you want? a cheat code? an auto guard? smh...this guy wants a shortcut in Tekken when there never was one.
Hardest fighting game yea
He can just play Leroy 😂
Even Mainmanswe disagrees with your take
I mean hes just saying that if you want lab all chars you have to buy dlc chars and not only that buy the frame data dlc which should just be free. It is pretty bullshit to a new person who wants to lab shit.
One major flaw I see in Tekken as a whole is the juggling system. It feels like they are fighting on the moon. One juggle hit pops a character off the ground to extend to combo twice as long as it should be. For as realistic as the fighting tries to be the juggling system is cartoon-ish.
The perfect fighting game juggle system is from Tobal 2. After launching a character their is no pop up on juggle hits. The trick is to repeatedly hit the character to delay them from falling. Not only take the physics are insane. You need perfect timing to do 10 hit juggles or the character will be knocked out of range. To get long combos you need to get characters to pinwheel in the air keeping them stationary in space.
Tmm has 1243 subs on twitch and 1243 is kaz's string
TMM covering two FGC Swedes with a lot of controversial history in one vid? Not bad! Love how respectful you've been in these videos!
I really love tekken but the community is so cancerous i haven't had a nontoxic interaction within the community besides ppl i already knew before i started playing
TZ is chill af
Well i haven't had toxic cinversations that much, maybe go to right streamers i guess
You're absolutely right about Tekken's difficulty being comparable to learning a language. You either played since young and know most of the moves by heart or you come in fresh having absolutely no clue on what to do. I think the franchise desperately needs an established in depth tutorial system that guides new players step-by-step on each of the game's mechanics. Eg. How to utilise wall splat, movement, sidestep, which moves are good for poking which are good for punish.
Whenever I see TMM complain about matchup knowledge all I hear is him bitching about Lei.
HOMING, THIS IS HOMING 🤣🤣🤣🤣
Totally agree coming from street fighter, king of fighter and mortal Kombat ( also soul calibur and Virtua Fighter) I have to say that Tekken Community is the worst above all!
And the funny thing is that they all thing that they are playing the most difficult and demanding fighting game lol
They thing that you have to know all the move list of all characters to be good... That's their level
Can't we all just get along and have fun with the game despite it's flaws :(
I think the biggest problem of Tekken, the big variety, the way that every person can play one character differently is too the what makes the game so unique and so loved.
mainman really needs to watch some of the vods of that guy and see the relationship he has with his fans.
he is like a mother that hates her child and poison drips it into codependency by tying their confidence to her shifting moods.
its legit insane.
I never comment on videos normally, but this one is incredibly on the money. I'm 41 y/o and have been playing Tekken since the 90s and there are still M/U's that I get washed with. I'm no slouch at the game and play still pretty regularly. Asking a noob to start a Tekken from scratch, ESPECIALLY 7, that's a tall order. There's just to much to learn. Just my 2 cents.
I think my problem with Leffen is him playing the same fucking game despite him complaining and whining so much about it. Why is he putting himself through all of this “suffering?”
He calls the community shit but I think it’s specifically his channel and people trying to get a reaction/rise out of him. The other channels I watch have great chatrooms and lots of supporters (imyourfather, arsenalty, kwiss, mainman, etc). Even some top level players were in his chat trying to help him out and teach him but he just ignored them, complained about having to learn how to counter “cheese” and told chat to kill themselves multiple times.
If you come into a new FGC, whine about the game and quit; no one’s going to say anything. But if you continue to shittalk the community and game WHILE still playing the game, you’re just going to get trolled. Leffen is just bringing this onto himself imho
I’d always wanted to get into Tekken, I played TTT2 a lil bit. But that huge roster and huge move lists are seriously overwhelming. It would be cool to see Namco do a spin-off Tekken game with a smaller roster and more experimental mechanics like Tekken 4 (without the balance issues of that game lol) because it’d be closer to starting fresh but not abandoning fundamental tekken gameplay.
"This game is super unforgiving, it throws you knowledge checks all the time." Super true, but...isn't that why we love it? Isn't that what makes it so unique? Isn't that what gives you a sense of satisfaction, when you overcome a knowledge or matchup barrier? When you gradually level up and add experience and execution perks to your Tekken skill tree? Because that's why I love it.
I do agree with the u have to buy the dlc and frame data to lab them that annoying.
For those who never watched his stream. He said Tekken is the golden turd in current FGCs.
His main issues with the game that he complains 24/7:
- to much character, with an average of 100 moves each. Needs to much learning. (True)
- online is trash (True)
- even high level is cheesy, and only pro level is 99% fundamental base (mosty True)
- need to pay for frame data/lab dlc characters(True)
- the Community shits on him on his stream, (True, but I feel like he only realizes the rotten apples in his chat, there are a lot of chill lads who only wants to help or enjoy the stream )
- he thinks the full game costs too much, he paid around 160$ for it. (Depends on people if Acceptable or Not)
Nah you're on his nuts. The MAIN thing he complains about is not knowing how to beat every character in every situation despite only playing for like 6 months
$160 for a game that has no decent offline modes, yeah thats overpriced.
There's a couple fighting games that Leffen might enjoy, dive kick and footsies come to mind
I Iove this game to but it’s very flawed and time consuming
Im new to tekken n i see mainman and majin are just such positive guys. Mainman supports & uplifts everyone he speaks on that’s admirable 🔥👏🏽
Listening to him feels like been scolded by my math teacher for hitting my classmates
He hit it on the nail that Tekken 7 is so unforgiving that it is only going to be natural to feel the salt. This is coming from someone who has been playing since Tekken 1 on the PS1 and the game heavily favors those who have been legacy players throughout the whole series. Also that the fact that a lot of these people are probably the Arcade elites Who have that mentality that if you didn't suffer through the bullshit of learning things a certain way, then you have no right to judge or complain about the game. Which I call Bullshit, Because just because you dealt with it, doesn't mean it should work that way. Even with the current patches and updates, The game itself as whole package is still Inferior to previous titles. Training and Lab time is so bare bones compared to something like Mortal Kombat 11, where it makes you understand, why this mechanic works, how you can improve on the mechanic, and how you can punish said mechanic. Call leffen a filthy Casual but, when some characters move lists are enough to fill a fucking novel, then you know that is too much to remember, let alone just one character to even get decent at and sometimes half the moves in said move list pro players don't even bother to use to begin which already adds unnecessary bloated complexity .
110% true dude, totally right here.
Can we start pointing out his insane toxicity as well? Telling people to kill themself or that they are a waste of oxygen? When you make a video in which you protect someone, at least show some reasons WHY is he being attacked and not only 1 clip that is nitpicked. It obviously is not healthy to spam reddit threads on someone who tries to give good criticism, but don't just ignore the other side. Saying something dumb/obnoxious is not a reason to insult them to the oblivions, because then you are no better than them.
And this is not about his opinion on the game, rather on his interaction with the community.
Yes, the community might've reacted bad, so did Leffen with his tweets/recent actions.
I've actually said this about Tekken. While at its highest level the game isn't jank, there is an inherent jank gap players must overcome become of just how big characters movesets are.
This is why the learning curve for Tekken can be so tough at intermediate because its as much about player skill as knowing how to counter said jank.
And I think a lot of people, especially those who have been playing for 10 or 20+ years and have tons of legacy knowledge try to downplay that.
That isn't to say Tekken needs to change as I think its important every fighting game has its own identity but it is what it is.
I mean calling reddit Twitter and twitch chat toxic is redundant haha
Frankly speaking, just try to master your character and know your character's moves well enough to do what you want the character to do at the right time. Is normal not to know the matchup, you just have to act accordingly. Is like a real fight of martial art, you won't be able to know what your opponent knows. You just have to be better at your own game to be better than your opponent. Having the lab is just a bonus to learn from the mistake, or be more prepared for the next time. No game is perfect, no human is perfect too.
THIS is why TMM IS SO RESPECTED! FACTS! TOP TO BOTTOM!