@@TheLifePhoenix Because society isnt built to support you and you'll fail at life without a platform and be in hell your entire life. Theres a reason theyre called starving artists. the world is made up of 99% bums and if you can figure out a way to fix that, call me
That the problem right there , if creativity represents the size of ocean then Organization/Consciousness and Intelligence represents the size of your boat to ride it , The more overwhelming Oceans became the more unstable and defeated your boat becomes , yet if your boat is like a heavy cruiser to you then its likely you are in a lake not an ocean for your lack of exploration and creative skills have created that defect , its better if you ride the oceans but ride on the currents which may be unstable but manageable for you , FOR IF YOU DONT then the currents will just overwhelm you.hindering your creativity Useless
It's especially challenging when you're highly creative and an introvert as people seldom take notice of the creativity you manifest in reality which is often just the tip of the ice burg compared to what's locked up in a creative introvert's mind.
Find a means to manifest your creativity. I'm a musician and songwriter/poet. That's one of the many ways I manifest my creativity. You seem to like cars so you could learn to paint pictures of sports cars, for example. You could even sell your services so people would hire you to paint a picture of their beloved car or truck. People do portraits of humans, so there will most definitely be car guys who would love a painting of their car. But this is just an example, you can probably think of a better idea.
Wish I heard you say this 30 years ago. It’s been a struggle, but realized what you are saying within the past few years and almost at the place to just exist comfortably doing the necessary job while practicing creativity on the side. Thank you for enforcing what I’ve come to see as the only way. I’ve tried changing myself to fit, but just couldn’t put that square peg in the round hole of society. I’ll try this way for the second part of life. 😊
Well from my own experience as a creative person (musician, today that means the full range: performing, composing, arranging, producing and sound engineering) I know that a lot of like minded (and some brilliant) people have been kept at the bottom on purpose. This happens a lot in film and music. The creative people get no chance to make a name, which is used as an excuse and a Catch 22 (among other things) to keep them down in the "cave" and do all the work that needs lots of creative decisions - including switching from detail to context, from math to emotion, from analysis to synthesis AND overcoming (by knowing them and the tricks to overcome them) all biases and flaws in human perception. This is VERY exhausting and draining work. Needless to say: the guys and gals who run the show take all the credit (I won't even go into envy and forcing bad taste onto the creative workers, who have to come up with clever ideas to take out the ''cheese' as much as possible, to prevent it from backfiring). Not to say that film and music history should be re-written - but it might not be too far off. Also: Western society seems to despise the arts and write it off as foolish, useless stuff unless it has some kind of institution, "seriousness" or academia attached to it (classical music - I use the term as "non popular" here, not the time period, the other meaning of the word). I left my native Germany over 30 years ago because it is a country that doesn't nourish or even appreciate the arts (at the present time) and people get quality and success mixed up. Just wanted to throw that in. Thanks for reading. P.S. getting a "day job" and being creative on the side is virtually the same as being not creative at all IMHO. You won't have the time and energy to even get anywhere near good at creative work (which is not just crazy ideas, it has to do a lot with dealing with both the tangible and the intangible at the same time).
truefilm yes it does make it hard for Creative people to get jobs and be as creative but I have for boys that are very creative they do short films they do comics they do music but they all have day jobs because they want a family also and in order to have a family you have to be able to provide as a man not that their women don't work but nobody wants to have to take care of someone else why they go have all the fun and the other person has to do the job being responsible for the household that is why my kids are successful and they do have happy lives they may never get rich but they enjoy their families and their art
+debbie wilder - Happy for you and your kids (NO sarcasm, I mean it!). It's not about riches. If you are truly creative and have a clear goal (making great art, for others to enjoy and which has something to say and to convey) you just cannot enjoy it unless you become skilled enough to even start working on your best projects. If someone is able to enjoy art as a hobby while not compromising family and a job that provides a steady income: more power to them! Not saying your kids are not true artists (how can I, I don't know them). Just: you need to dedicate all the time you have to even get the minimum skills required to produce great art (or craftsmanship). A true creative artist is driven - art has chosen this person. That's why I don't have a day job and no family - and since Western culture doesn't take art as seriously as it should (IMHO) I am not a successful artist (I had a long period where things went rather well) either, but I created works I am proud of (a lot of music that actually was being broadcast many times ranging from album tracks to music for TV commercials before cheap stock library music took over and threw us musicians out on the street) - because I put my entire being into it. Someone has to do it - otherwise we would end up even faster in a world without art. Just look at what happened to architecture, painting and music. Classical ( I use the term in its meaning "non-popular" as opposed to the classical period between baroque and romanticism -think Mozart) music is creatively bankrupt since the 1910s. The pop/rock music business is finished since a long time ago - it's all run-of-the-mill music which is more about the visuals. The great bands are all hidden in niche markets. One last thing: I also do short films for all my life (I started in the 1970s with Super 8mm film) - on a real professional film format, not digital, a personal preference. Coming up with even ONE single shot that is more than just amateur footage, it takes years to study, plan and at least an entire day to shoot).
truefilm I'm aware no one can help me in this case but I need an answer anyway. I'm 18 years old now and also a native german who's currently facing the exact same problem. I can either follow my familiys advice to get a job make some financial status and at the same time try to be creative (this would also be JPs advice), or I go on full risk like you did and study for example literature, art history or philosophy in this case I'd have more time to be creative but when I fail I'll sit alone and poor in a small flat at the age of 50 without love/respect from anyone, and without a wife or children which are both things I consider as essential for a meaningful life. I don't know which szenario is worse being lonely, childless, sad and unrespected by my whole familiy and friends or working in a job like a slave in which I have to obey and slog away all the day and at the same time loosing the nescessary energy to be a good creative. Well I know I exaggerate a bit xD at least I hope so .... AND btw you're so fucking right with your opinion on germany! In germany and especially in richer south germany creative people are so unapprechiated until they're actually very succesful the highest status goes to boring people. I really like my country for it's culture but it's a shame it nowadays still calls itself "land of poets and philosophers". I mean of course that's what makes us economically succesful but on a cultural level we suffer.
+Felix W - my humble advice: since you do have parents (or other family members) who actually try to give you sound advice, my answer is: don't follow your dreams, they are just that: dreams. More than ever, since the arts are officially bankrupt (they weren't in the 1980s and 90s, but it started to decline.). You need to eat and pay the bills - and that costs a LOT of money. Also I know from my own experience that living without a family in a shoddy apartment at age 50 is not desirable at all. If I was now at the age of, say, 19, I wouldn't chose the arts anymore. Now that everything's gone (everyone can hammer out a tune on a laptop in their bedroom - both because it has become easier and music is creatively bankrupt since long ago, the same goes for film making, painting, you name it) there is no more excitement in the arts anyway - it's all a data cloud. I do my own thing and have two UA-cam channels where I share everything I know with like minded people - and I am happy I was able to help many already, so at least I have a strong purpose). Yet: here is my humble advice: go for the well paid job, if you can manage to do it without suffering and - VERY important: don't marry too early. You need to find a kindred, like minded woman which whom you can truly communicate (like she does need a man like that). At your age it's all too easy falling in love with the wrong woman. Having your own family - that sticks together and functions must be the greatest thing, for a million reasons. As an artist, you won't truly and consistently make it. No one will anymore. I didn't and nobody I ever knew truly made it. As soon as you hit a certain age, it will dry up anyway and you will end up half starving, getting old, ill and being alone. Avoid that! It's not worth it - under any circumstances. Just my humble opinion.
Thank you very much for your opinion. I'm kind of surprised you recommend to go the ordinary way. To be honest I tended to this choice before, mainly cause of the reasons you've mentioned but I just can't get rid of the feeling I would betray my ideals and my character with this, it still feels wrong. In the past I've watched out for a normal job you can be creative in, like designing something or being a journalist, the problem is these jobs are so in demand that I would have to spend way to much time into work to have any chance to write or paint in my free time. As a consequence I would kill my last bit of time to achieve what I truely want. It's really weird for me right now, two years ago when I was like 16 I was so idealistic, I was so determined to follow my dreams that I was sure to take any consequence for it. I sweared to myself I will never become on of these boring persons who in their 20s only concentrate on job and partner and judge everyone on how much money you have, how your partner looks like or how many friends you have, but now there's nothing left of this determination except this feeling I have to try it anyways. The problem is when creative jobs are out of the question there are only highly normal and boring jobs left to take. There may be 99% of failing but there is a 1% chance to success and I feel like I have to try it. Do you know where I'm coming from? On the other hand you nailed it, I don't want to belong to the 99% I don't want to be alone and starving and sadly this is way more probable. That's why I'll go for the job as a civil servant next year if I don't change my mind till then. Regarding marriage I agree with you I consider myself to be able to judge people very appropriate and I'm aware everyone has flaws. I have many myself. You know actually I'm not a person who cares much about money and posessions, but sadly women do a lot. And I care about women. Now when they are 18 they care about on which party you go (I don't go on partys often) but when you're 30 they care about if you're able to build a house. Also I don't want to pity you, but you seem to me like a honourable, intelligent person so it really upsets me when I hear how you ended up. Life is very unfair so I wish you all the best. I can recommend you deeply the norwegian author Karl Ove Knausgard he has written a fantastic autobiography about his struggle to become a writer (which is also my wish) and failing.
I work in the military as a soldier and I hate everything about it. The system, the authoritarian kind of people and how dumb they all are. when I come with a solution no one listens to me and when they do they treat with contempt. Sometimes they even stole my idea and say they did it. For sure I want to get the hell out of it and work in a more honest and less egoistic career that no one needs to let you down just to "feel superior than you".
Stop being an order following piece of immoral trash dude..... You call that being a man? Jeez GOD: why did you kill that man? STORM TROOPER:..... errr.... I was just following orders.... GOD: why did you kill that man?
Here is one of many possible solutions for when you have someone in your life who consistently steals your ideas. Start generating ideas with subtle but catastrophic flaws when you're around them. Eventually they will latch on to one of these ideas and pass it off as their own. From there you just let the natural process unfold.
Creative people didn't get any help for a long time. They were brainwashed that they should be crazy and starving. Psychologists also couldn't help as they would categorise creatives as out of order people without understanding that it is normal for artists to have flamboyant fantasies or be sensitive or impulsive. Fortunately there are a lot of mindset change going on lately. Artists learn business. Coaches begin to specialise on artists and jump-start their careers. Artists need more empowerment and yes, they need to think about finances for their creative life. JP is so right about business. 9to 5 job will only exhaust a creative person. But creatively run business can function without the owner being there all the time
I agree fully and additionally, creative types need certification, schooling, etc. Trying to make it as a creative without any credentials is both socially and financially suicidal.
Finally! F*cking finally! I finally know why the hell school exhausts the living being out of me. I don’t like to brag but people often tell me I’m too inteligent and creative for normal schooling, I feel the same way. More often then not I feel like school system is pulling me apart, like they are tearing the soul out of me. There isn’t much creativity involved in mechanical engineering you know? You also don’t use your brain that much because everything you learn has already been determined. It’s dreadful...
Definately! None of my "menral health" workers ever understood my creative artistic heart, just tried to labotomize me with medication and try to panel beat me back into societys mold, this doesn't work, and is poisonous to be around, i live in the middle of a toxic society that wants people like me dead
Creativity is evaluated by the impact of what it creates. The inability to perceive the potential value of new things demonstrates a lack of intelligence. So, if hierarchies of authority are unable to evaluate creativity, then they are, at best, only promoting for a narrow kind of intelligence.
“There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. For the innovator has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order, this lukewarmness arising partly from fear of their adversaries … and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have had actual experience of it.” -Niccolò Machiavelli
Very true. I'm creative and I don't give a flying hoot about hierarchies. I do see where hierarchies have merit, and it's typically where people are promoted based on merit such as in the military. Another thing I noticed is that our entire society it designed to brainwash people to be kept at the bottom. As a young man growing up I wanted to pursue my ideas but literally everyone around me kept giving the brainwashed advice about working hard, paying dues, climbing the ladder. Meanwhile I'm like "why shouldn't I just start my own business at 18 and climb my own ladder?". And the internet was in it's infancy so there wasn't much good information which meant trying to find the info at the Library - which is basically a dart game for learning.
I think I'm very high in creativity; I find it utterly boring to do things the traditional way, but I ran into exactly the problem he mentioned, where I entered a new hierarchy, found its flaws, pointed them out, and was completely disregarded because I hadn't built up any status in the hierarchy. So I gritted my teeth, worked hard, and built up some respect. Not much, just enough that I couldn't be disregarded offhand, and now my ideas, once radical, are considered common practice. Unfortunately, that's now left that domain uninteresting to me so I've left it behind, which is something that a lot of people fail to consider. The problems of creativity don't stop once you reach a point of respect, they just start all over again. Which is why it's nice to have a relatively stable career to back me up as I run headlong into an infinite chain of problems. JP is 100% right in that respect.
Isn’t there some creativity inherent in learning your way as quickly as you can up a hierarchy, at least when it comes to learning new skills? Admittedly, when it comes to repetitive implementation, earning respect is a drag…
Hence the term $tarving Artist. It was this realization at a very young age that led me into a field of design... From there I expanded by competence and a degree of luck into management however I will say that there was an emptiness I felt throughout the process because my creativity was caged throughout 70% of my day to day activities. I do not regret it because this realization and choice led me to having a family and children that I can provide for. The creative lion within however is still rattling the cage.
I am creative (IQ 149) and this happened to me. Stuck at the bottom of corporate hierarchies for decades, then bought a cafe four years ago and made it so successful that my bank thought I was money laundering!
The very condition of true artist drives them to live beyond hierarchy weather they want it or not. Artists have just different sets of values by nature, sure they pay rent and fart like all the rest but you won't allure an artist with status as easy as a bank worker, cos most of people don't have a remote idea what is "badass" in artist's eyes (and it's definitely NOT what you think at the moment it is, so it's tricky to lure them in collaborations). So there's a lot to learn from that imho.
I know someone who is extremely creative and brilliant, but whose "superiors" are essentially swaggering egos yoked to examples of stunning mediocrity. Thus, all of their interactions with this creative person can effectively be summed up as follows: "Back in your corner. Back in your corner. Back in your corner."
creative=changing things up/doing things different, which scares normies. people skills and being extroverted are essential because people will only listen to you if they find you relatable. most artists starve because they focus on their craft instead of salesmanship and pandering to idiots.
I can only speak from the perspective of a designer who has worked in the industry for 11 years now. Never EVER underestimate your stakeholder management. It's THE most important skill alongside anything you need to get your actual job done.
I've worked in highly technical and high paid software development roles and have a lot of experience. I am also highly creative. I've watched as my creative abilities shifted projects from being something no one had heard of to being worth millions to the organization. And then watched as higher ups came around like vultures to fight for control of these projects. Everything would become toxic as these projects gained traction and success. This would crush my enthusiasm and I would inevitably leave or be forced out. But, what these experiences taught me was that being creative and having "my own thing" isn't optional for me. I assume there are others out there that may need to hear this or have had similar experiences. The lack of being able to grow a project and own it fully can be soulcrushing. I believe that with the right work ethic and a balanced lifestyle, creative people can thrive ON THERE OWN. I think product ownership is MANDATORY though, unless you've found a sweet spot somewhere. It may be difficult to get your project (or business) off the ground, but there's always a way. I wish anyone struggling the best.
I think part of the problem in monetizing creativity is that creativity and business sense, or the ability to promote and sell, rarely occur together in the same person.
Wow. I feel like this is another mythical place. I thought all my life I was the stupidest kid in the school. Always told to stop daydreaming focus and memorize. Barely made it through high school never went to college. But co founded a successful multimillion dollar distribution company. I can’t tell you how much I had to fight against the naysayers including my own family. But I finally got it through the other side or the mystical side. I started seeing the life of a successful entrepreneur. I love It. I love every second of it. I’m glad I persisted even when I thought of quitting many times. I can finally say I am that baby bird who is thrown out of the nest and now I’m soaring. I will never trade it for anything. Persistency and resilience are my greatest asset. God receives all the glory. I love all these comments because it shows how I’m not alone. I felt alone for a long time. I wish we had our own network.
sometimes I am guilty of keep questioning things and coming up to new ideas happily and enthusiastically which shaken all the social norms, unspoken rules, power dynamics, priorities and interests within a hierarchy. I brought up new situations which people need to give attention and energy to deal with it and the impact to everyone at the end may not be constructive in short run, and they then subconsciously dislike me of kind of forcing me to change and don't want to see me exercising my enthusiasm in front of them anymore. I felt like I am the sinner, the unfit, a source of destruction.
Chef Gordon Ramsey is very creative but he clearly has the end price in mind at all times when he is creating. Creative people can be overly altruistic and focus only on the pureness of "the work", but Ramsey always has the money and the work together in his mind and knows exactly how to turn ten bucks worth of food into fifty bucks cash. Andy Warhol thought about the price a lot, too. If you're going to be creative you're going to have to be one hell of a salesman or you'll starve for sure...
@@slicedtopieces It's not that simple though. In this particular video Peterson brings up an important point, with lots of emphasis for a reason. He says it's "very, very, very, very, very hard for creative people to monetize their creativity." You could be the world's greatest, freshest poet and learn everything there is about marketing and business but you still might only get $1,000 from a tiny publisher for your masterpiece book of poetry. It's extremely hard to make money from music, art, writing, etc. - the best advice I have is similar to Peterson's, here - you basically still need to find a career and do something you don't hate doing. For me it was taking my love of language and writing and becoming a professor. Some people who love to write get into technical writing or marketing/communications or digital marketing, etc. - basically you still need to supplement that creativity with practical skills so you can survive in the world. (And I'm a fringe case, because most people can't just get a PhD and become a professor, it's like 1% of the US population that ends up with a doctoral degree, or maybe less.)
Ideas are not evaluated on their individual merits alone. In strict, top down hierarchies, ideas that come from the bottom are often ignored by the top and stolen by the middle.
I know this can't be a solution for everyone, but I've been having a lot of joy with programming and trying to be creative with it. Just different approaches to practical scenarios (I've made a script that takes care of my time sheet, I'm working on a lot of ideas for this Android app called Tasker which opens up a lot of possibilities, and I'm automating different tasks at my office job like a certain daily email, file sorting, etc.) I think perhaps I'd fall under the creative and orderly type which is why a creative approach to a logical system has been rewarding, but I still think it's a useful idea to conduct yourself as creatively as possible with your job even if it isn't your creative avenue of choice (such as music). It sucks that creative people can't just follow their strong suit and live out of poverty in most cases, but life isn't gonna change how it approaches you so change how you approach it.
The relationship between intellect and creativity is the ability to manipulate categories. You must be able to understand and distinguish between existing categories, evaluate categories effectively, and develop new categories meaningfully. An intellect focuses on effectiveness and meaningfulness and therefore doesn't garner attention to his own creativity. An intellect is nevertheless as creative as any highly creative person. A person who focuses on creativity devoid of effectiveness and meaning doesn't do themselves any favors. Their creativity may be aesthetically pleasing, but not usually very marketable - it's harder to trade it for what they need. A creative person needs to go back to their ability to understand categories and tap into their intellect in order to turn their creativity into something effective - teleology - and meaningful - epistemology. These are useful categories that can direct creativity into something that can be traded. So it's a little bit of an identity shift, or perhaps it's better to couch it as the maturing of one's identity as a creative person.
I agree with your main points except 2:00. You can go by averages over the length of a career. The greatest batting average was 400. That a whole lot of misses by Ty Cobb. But you hang around the fringes of the art scene or the music scene, or look at the obvious famous examples like David Bowie, or Fitzgerald , Picasso, or in the corporate world Steve Jobs (before everyone jumps down my throat these are all people from different times and art forms with varying levels of talent.)They all had pretty high averages though. It’s the general public that gets it wrong. Van Gogh being the classic example or any number of jazz musicians. Anyone around the scene at the time knew Coltrane was getting on base a lot more than others though or that Brando was not like his predecessors. He sure had a lot of misses. Lol. Still most actors you’ll meet will admit he was pretty good (if they don’t Laurence Olivier’s name is usually brought up quickly. ) Another guy with good averages. A matter of taste but also averages.
"...What propels you up hierarchies of authority is intelligence and conscientiousness..." I haven't found that description accurate. I see _fitness_ adaptation and the reliance on argumentum ad baculum in all dominance hierarchies and hierarchies of authority. I don't see competence. Some of the fitness adaptation in Humans is certainly intelligent, so I can grant that to an extent. Still, interesting stuff. The problem with this take is that Human consciousness, regardless of whether its high in openness or conscientiousness, is a heuristic process. At some nearly granular, fundamental level we are all chucking abstractions at the "wall of reality" to see what sticks. This noise in the process is probably fundamental to what distinguishes a conscious life form from a "merely intelligent, but unconscious" information processing system. If that is true, does it make sense to use dominance and authority hierarchies - which by their nature do not place this at the foundation of all possible value, rather suppress it... I don't see that it makes sense at all. Hmm... Seems like a waste of potential "CPU" if you will.
Real, meaningful art is neither a job nor a hobby, nor a desire to deal with trauma and escape from the world, but - a calling. It is a painful life, rarely joyful; it is absolute chaos that wants to take shape and bring a message to the humanity that must be said. And it can be damn hard, not because of lack of money, recognition, success...Your loved ones who start judging you, because they misunderstand and think you're throwing your life away. But because of doubt that is always present and thousands of questions that arise. Why all this? I have a degree in economics, I could do really good jobs, and yet, when I'm not painting, I feel miserable and have nothing to look forward to. Everything seems wrong. But the hardest of all are the days when I simply can't create, and those days are painful and unbearable, especially since I quit drinking years ago and have to get through it sober. Imagine working on a piece for six months, only to destroy it in fifteen minutes - yes those things happen sometimes, and yes it's a horror. But then again, the relief and blessing of the moment when it's all done and the paintings turn out just right is the greatest possible reward there is. But it doesn't last long, because new paintings are yet to be made...
You need to upskill. To get to the top you need to become a hell of a salesman, and get some extra competencies that fit the new role. I'm curious whether project management is for creative people.
"Creative" does not mean artists. Artists are starving because they create little value. Telling jokes or jamming with friends does not mean much of anything. It means ppl who come up with inventions, new technologies, new ways of doing things. Important stuff.
Just because you don't see value in something doesn't mean it's of little value, it just means that you are blind to its value. 'Telling jokes' has no value, say that to a successful comedian. 'Jamming with friends' has no value? Say that to any well knows musician, and they will tell you how very wrong you are.
@@suraspen8152 if artists are starving them because they create little of value= if Artists are not starving then because they create something of value. Modern art=creation of 5yo old. Yet there are ppl who actually pay money for modern art. What's the difference? The ability to convince others of subjective value?
@@kofola9145 Isn't your whole argument baised around the ignorant assumption that all artists are starving? Let's not even go into the argument on the value of art, the value of any object is different to different people. And I wouldn't expect you to understand the value I see in art and entertainment for that matter. The rate at which it is sold, if the artist is willing to sell it, is a price agreed upon by the buyer and the seller unlike mass produced products. All I can see in your last point is that you fail to see any form of art that is currently sold other than modern art. I'll take digital art as an example for this, going from logos, graphic novels, digital paintings, etc. Each of them have their own market and the prices always depend on what the artist sees its value to be. I personally am unable to see the value in what is generally described as modern art either but I am certain that it holds value to the artist and the buyer.
Does anyone know the jp video where he also talks about the personality traits saying some people are systematisers? I want to know if I am creative type or a systematiser.
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you can now easily live outside that hierarchy in "parallel society" using bitcoin, working remote or build business with like minded people.
Maybe the conscientiously driven economy and top of the hierarchy ought to consider that if money is the bottleneck of many creatives that also include those that should lead a business, then money ought not to be concentrated to the bureaucratic managers. That is, a socialist economy and a democratic business, a la Richard Wolff co-op business model.
I don’t know what he means by creative people. But basically all the tech entrepreneurs where creative and came up with radical new ideas that made them very wealthy. Maybe he means people in the art and music industry.
In big companies its not who is the best, who works the hardest, its about the good ol boys still and thats why the world is in the trouble its in --Everyone just keeps playing the game Managers are taught the carrot and the stick to deal with "employees" Things will change one way or another.
This is me and my first job and how I was eventually laid off at 25. Little do they know I will buy the company at its peak and disrupt their primitive hierarchical structure
"How the hell do you evaluate a creative person" (01:45) First of all: There is no distinction between "creative" people and .... "not creative?" people, except that "creative people" were to stubborn to let go of their natural urge to create, where others did in order to take their place in society that is built on conscientiousness, and therefore found a way to manifest their creativity. One would expect from a psychologist to know these things. And second of all: why would you want to determine how to evaluate any person at all, creative or otherwise?
You are basically saying that everybody starts with the same creative ability. That doesn't seem right. Some (most) people do give up their ambition to become a soulless slave.
Climb that ladder first before you present your radical ideas to the authorities. That's how humans work, they listen to people that already made a name for themselves because in human nature they knew that they have something effective and reasonable to say, just like how the weak people back at the stone ages got shielded by the strong tall cavemen for their survival. Because they will always think that the reason you're at the bottom is because you don't have what it takes to earn the same respect, position, and reputation they have.
Do creative work outside of your job....Do it so that it stabalises your emotional and personality needs...Even perhaps spiritual needs, but you may have to just accept that your day to day job will be as boring as bat shit....One way to combat that boredom is to be as consienteous as possible...It won't be easy, but there is life after work and if you need to create enough, then you'll create in your spare time.
The belittling way he speaks about those ‘starting out at the bottom’ and somehow justifying the fact that no one listens to them is what is wrong in the world and wrong with JP himself. True leaders actually crave input from the ‘young ones’ (in stead of silencing them because of a false sense of ‘superiority’)
I believe creative people should not rebel against authoritative and conscientious forces. Mainly because it's hard to survive and fulfil human needs and wants when rebelling against it. As much as its advertised, Most people do not get in the position of financial independence and success because of creation. It's extremely hard to be an entrepreneur. Instead creative people should accept the forces for what they are. Obtain a career, observe the hierarchy in which you are subjected to and analyze why you have such a problem with it. Now once you are achieving a stable and consistent income, start creating your ass off. Let your dreams and goals motivate you to elevate into a higher position in life. Your goal of creativity never changed, you just changed how you felt about authority and conscientious and twisted it into your benefit of creating something in your life.
How people around the world indicate that they're done talking Pharaohs: "So let it be done. So let it be written." Native Americans: "Hugh, I have spoken." Koreans: "Seumida." American presidents: "Thank you, and God bless America." Dolphins: "So long, and thanks for all the fish." UA-camrs: "Please subscribe and hit that notification button." Jordan Peterson: "So..."
Very true. I have a series that explores ways that creative people can monetize their passion and companies like Apple and google have made this a reality for many of them.
So why compromise and "work" with small mind and egos. I'd rather be broke and create than tolerate and have a pay check... If I'm not creating what would I be motivated to buy, pay bills for and own if I'm not living out my God given talents?! Nonsensical
You know the worst is having a creative job and having all the creativity sucked out from it. When you come home you are so drained you have no drive to do anything.
Is this not more a case of too many fish: More creative people than necessary, as seen in areas of employment which require such? I know he points to this at the end. But I think my issue with this is he's neglecting the impact monopolies play on creativity. We can bang on all day about the positive effects of industrialisation (higher average wealth, longer life expectancy, better medicine etc) which gave rise to the digital age we're now living. But what has it done to the local smith, jeweller, woodscraftsman, potter, painter....? Sure it would have been hard if you were at the very bottom (say; an orphan-turned-adult) during early Victorian Britain, for e.g. , to garner the capital required to start a local business. And most continued within the family business irregardless. And life wasn't nearly as pleasant as today, admittedly, in terms of comfort. But at least you knew you didn't have to compete with a fast economy where companies like Amazon were your main competition, and growth of small business is discouraged and actively surpressed by bigger business, or distrubtors of your wares (I'm looking at you Etsy!). I studied Art & Design at college (UK), and remember discussions surrounding ludditism within the Impressionist Movement..... Over 100 years on, and they were right!...There has been a destruction of beauty. And I speak only for myself when I say this; But if discomfort is the trade-off for raw beauty, give me discomfort! The human body isn't designed for perpetual comfort anyway. It's unnatural.
Sell your art on the internet. Just be you. Jordan is wrong to his point where he states: 'we can't survive on art'. He comes from a different era. I sell my architectural plans and then have a small catalog of ancelary home products like solar panels. Good luck!
Lol you either have a day job or you create. Both? Fat chance Edit: note, theres a difference between having a day job and doing something to pay the bills. You can door dash a bit or work part time at the grocery store. Your life won't be lavish; you may have to grocery shop at dollar general and live in a trailer, but youll be happy with the mental and emotional freedom being a self directed creative provides.
Might you think that creative people have such a hard time of it, partly due to these stereotypical beliefs around "the starving artist"? The Arts and Cultural sector of BC earns more than the lumber and fishing industries combined. Also I seem to be able to "monetize" my art (portraiture) ShaheeMedia.com/portraits facebook.com/CyberGypsyArts
Use your "EXTRA" time??? Time is worth more than money, and While trying to survive the California economy and work with small minds grinding away at their only purpose, the "structural" job steals and sucks away time and energy. It hasn't been until I've put MOST of my time into my art n music by barely working a modern day BS job that I've found true substance and purpose. Love you Peterson but as you would know dime a dozen folks will never understand a creative mind and that's not going to hinder me any longer
Its really not that hard in today's age. Technology has broadened the scope immensely for creative people and so has the pandemic. Recipe 1. Make sure whatever skill/s you have as a creative person is at its peak and that you are competent - if not don't bother going further until you have reached that place. 2. Learn as much as you can about micro economics. Essentially you are an entrepreneur so if you do not have fundamental business skills as a creative - U WILL FAIL! 3. Connect to like minded people - don't be throwing ideas to people who don't get you - this is important in building a team of people around you - this does not mean you have a team. 4. Look and see who are people who are doing exactly what you would like to do - find out how they did it - copy + paste - make adjustment where necessary to fit your narrative 5. Do the work - rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. Be patient, eat sh*t, don't be entitled - the world don't owe you nothing. rinse and repeat. I went from leaving a full time job in Advertising just before the pandemic hit to a full time Artist. Within 3 months I regretted I had done it. This forced me reevaluate my strategy - within 4 months after that I was bringing enough money in a month that equated to 2 months salary in my previous job.
“We have art so that we shall not die of reality” F. Nietzsche
Now that sums it all up!
ahahahahah Brilliant!
Creative people hate hierarchies anyway.
Amen. So why compromise and work with small minds and egos?!!!
Just as much as you hate using your brain, idiot.
@@TheLifePhoenix Because society isnt built to support you and you'll fail at life without a platform and be in hell your entire life. Theres a reason theyre called starving artists. the world is made up of 99% bums and if you can figure out a way to fix that, call me
i love you
That the problem right there , if creativity represents the size of ocean then Organization/Consciousness and Intelligence represents the size of your boat to ride it , The more overwhelming Oceans became the more unstable and defeated your boat becomes , yet if your boat is like a heavy cruiser to you then its likely you are in a lake not an ocean for your lack of exploration and creative skills have created that defect , its better if you ride the oceans but ride on the currents which may be unstable but manageable for you , FOR IF YOU DONT then the currents will just overwhelm you.hindering your creativity Useless
It's especially challenging when you're highly creative and an introvert as people seldom take notice of the creativity you manifest in reality which is often just the tip of the ice burg compared to what's locked up in a creative introvert's mind.
very true
Well - that is the real truth. what he says - in general - is false - but if you are an introvert or ONLY creative - then he is correct.
Find a means to manifest your creativity. I'm a musician and songwriter/poet. That's one of the many ways I manifest my creativity.
You seem to like cars so you could learn to paint pictures of sports cars, for example. You could even sell your services so people would hire you to paint a picture of their beloved car or truck. People do portraits of humans, so there will most definitely be car guys who would love a painting of their car. But this is just an example, you can probably think of a better idea.
Socrates is both introverted and massive creative
Wish I heard you say this 30 years ago. It’s been a struggle, but realized what you are saying within the past few years and almost at the place to just exist comfortably doing the necessary job while practicing creativity on the side. Thank you for enforcing what I’ve come to see as the only way. I’ve tried changing myself to fit, but just couldn’t put that square peg in the round hole of society. I’ll try this way for the second part of life. 😊
Well from my own experience as a creative person (musician, today that means the full range: performing, composing, arranging, producing and sound engineering) I know that a lot of like minded (and some brilliant) people have been kept at the bottom on purpose. This happens a lot in film and music. The creative people get no chance to make a name, which is used as an excuse and a Catch 22 (among other things) to keep them down in the "cave" and do all the work that needs lots of creative decisions - including switching from detail to context, from math to emotion, from analysis to synthesis AND overcoming (by knowing them and the tricks to overcome them) all biases and flaws in human perception. This is VERY exhausting and draining work.
Needless to say: the guys and gals who run the show take all the credit (I won't even go into envy and forcing bad taste onto the creative workers, who have to come up with clever ideas to take out the ''cheese' as much as possible, to prevent it from backfiring). Not to say that film and music history should be re-written - but it might not be too far off. Also: Western society seems to despise the arts and write it off as foolish, useless stuff unless it has some kind of institution, "seriousness" or academia attached to it (classical music - I use the term as "non popular" here, not the time period, the other meaning of the word). I left my native Germany over 30 years ago because it is a country that doesn't nourish or even appreciate the arts (at the present time) and people get quality and success mixed up. Just wanted to throw that in. Thanks for reading.
P.S. getting a "day job" and being creative on the side is virtually the same as being not creative at all IMHO. You won't have the time and energy to even get anywhere near good at creative work (which is not just crazy ideas, it has to do a lot with dealing with both the tangible and the intangible at the same time).
truefilm yes it does make it hard for Creative people to get jobs and be as creative but I have for boys that are very creative they do short films they do comics they do music but they all have day jobs because they want a family also and in order to have a family you have to be able to provide as a man not that their women don't work but nobody wants to have to take care of someone else why they go have all the fun and the other person has to do the job being responsible for the household that is why my kids are successful and they do have happy lives they may never get rich but they enjoy their families and their art
+debbie wilder - Happy for you and your kids (NO sarcasm, I mean it!). It's not about riches. If you are truly creative and have a clear goal (making great art, for others to enjoy and which has something to say and to convey) you just cannot enjoy it unless you become skilled enough to even start working on your best projects. If someone is able to enjoy art as a hobby while not compromising family and a job that provides a steady income: more power to them! Not saying your kids are not true artists (how can I, I don't know them). Just: you need to dedicate all the time you have to even get the minimum skills required to produce great art (or craftsmanship). A true creative artist is driven - art has chosen this person. That's why I don't have a day job and no family - and since Western culture doesn't take art as seriously as it should (IMHO) I am not a successful artist (I had a long period where things went rather well) either, but I created works I am proud of (a lot of music that actually was being broadcast many times ranging from album tracks to music for TV commercials before cheap stock library music took over and threw us musicians out on the street) - because I put my entire being into it. Someone has to do it - otherwise we would end up even faster in a world without art. Just look at what happened to architecture, painting and music. Classical ( I use the term in its meaning "non-popular" as opposed to the classical period between baroque and romanticism -think Mozart) music is creatively bankrupt since the 1910s. The pop/rock music business is finished since a long time ago - it's all run-of-the-mill music which is more about the visuals. The great bands are all hidden in niche markets. One last thing: I also do short films for all my life (I started in the 1970s with Super 8mm film) - on a real professional film format, not digital, a personal preference. Coming up with even ONE single shot that is more than just amateur footage, it takes years to study, plan and at least an entire day to shoot).
truefilm I'm aware no one can help me in this case but I need an answer anyway. I'm 18 years old now and also a native german who's currently facing the exact same problem. I can either follow my familiys advice to get a job make some financial status and at the same time try to be creative (this would also be JPs advice), or I go on full risk like you did and study for example literature, art history or philosophy in this case I'd have more time to be creative but when I fail I'll sit alone and poor in a small flat at the age of 50 without love/respect from anyone, and without a wife or children which are both things I consider as essential for a meaningful life. I don't know which szenario is worse being lonely, childless, sad and unrespected by my whole familiy and friends or working in a job like a slave in which I have to obey and slog away all the day and at the same time loosing the nescessary energy to be a good creative. Well I know I exaggerate a bit xD at least I hope so ....
AND btw you're so fucking right with your opinion on germany! In germany and especially in richer south germany creative people are so unapprechiated until they're actually very succesful the highest status goes to boring people. I really like my country for it's culture but it's a shame it nowadays still calls itself "land of poets and philosophers". I mean of course that's what makes us economically succesful but on a cultural level we suffer.
+Felix W - my humble advice: since you do have parents (or other family members) who actually try to give you sound advice, my answer is: don't follow your dreams, they are just that: dreams. More than ever, since the arts are officially bankrupt (they weren't in the 1980s and 90s, but it started to decline.). You need to eat and pay the bills - and that costs a LOT of money. Also I know from my own experience that living without a family in a shoddy apartment at age 50 is not desirable at all. If I was now at the age of, say, 19, I wouldn't chose the arts anymore. Now that everything's gone (everyone can hammer out a tune on a laptop in their bedroom - both because it has become easier and music is creatively bankrupt since long ago, the same goes for film making, painting, you name it) there is no more excitement in the arts anyway - it's all a data cloud. I do my own thing and have two UA-cam channels where I share everything I know with like minded people - and I am happy I was able to help many already, so at least I have a strong purpose). Yet: here is my humble advice: go for the well paid job, if you can manage to do it without suffering and - VERY important: don't marry too early. You need to find a kindred, like minded woman which whom you can truly communicate (like she does need a man like that). At your age it's all too easy falling in love with the wrong woman. Having your own family - that sticks together and functions must be the greatest thing, for a million reasons. As an artist, you won't truly and consistently make it. No one will anymore. I didn't and nobody I ever knew truly made it. As soon as you hit a certain age, it will dry up anyway and you will end up half starving, getting old, ill and being alone. Avoid that! It's not worth it - under any circumstances. Just my humble opinion.
Thank you very much for your opinion. I'm kind of surprised you recommend to go the ordinary way. To be honest I tended to this choice before, mainly cause of the reasons you've mentioned but I just can't get rid of the feeling I would betray my ideals and my character with this, it still feels wrong. In the past I've watched out for a normal job you can be creative in, like designing something or being a journalist, the problem is these jobs are so in demand that I would have to spend way to much time into work to have any chance to write or paint in my free time. As a consequence I would kill my last bit of time to achieve what I truely want. It's really weird for me right now, two years ago when I was like 16 I was so idealistic, I was so determined to follow my dreams that I was sure to take any consequence for it. I sweared to myself I will never become on of these boring persons who in their 20s only concentrate on job and partner and judge everyone on how much money you have, how your partner looks like or how many friends you have, but now there's nothing left of this determination except this feeling I have to try it anyways. The problem is when creative jobs are out of the question there are only highly normal and boring jobs left to take.
There may be 99% of failing but there is a 1% chance to success and I feel like I have to try it.
Do you know where I'm coming from?
On the other hand you nailed it, I don't want to belong to the 99% I don't want to be alone and starving and sadly this is way more probable. That's why I'll go for the job as a civil servant next year if I don't change my mind till then.
Regarding marriage I agree with you I consider myself to be able to judge people very appropriate and I'm aware everyone has flaws. I have many myself.
You know actually I'm not a person who cares much about money and posessions, but sadly women do a lot. And I care about women. Now when they are 18 they care about on which party you go (I don't go on partys often) but when you're 30 they care about if you're able to build a house.
Also I don't want to pity you, but you seem to me like a honourable, intelligent person so it really upsets me when I hear how you ended up. Life is very unfair so I wish you all the best. I can recommend you deeply the norwegian author Karl Ove Knausgard he has written a fantastic autobiography about his struggle to become a writer (which is also my wish) and failing.
I work in the military as a soldier and I hate everything about it. The system, the authoritarian kind of people and how dumb they all are. when I come with a solution no one listens to me and when they do they treat with contempt. Sometimes they even stole my idea and say they did it.
For sure I want to get the hell out of it and work in a more honest and less egoistic career that no one needs to let you down just to "feel superior than you".
I recommend avoiding any union jobs in that case. Same issues. Your value is based on time served not quality of work
Stop being an order following piece of immoral trash dude..... You call that being a man? Jeez
GOD: why did you kill that man?
STORM TROOPER:..... errr.... I was just following orders....
GOD: why did you kill that man?
@@JesusLordOfLords455 stop being a overly judgmental piece of trash before you start telling people what’s wrong with them.
Ha, I relate to the stolen ideas part - people have been passing off my ideas as their own forever
Here is one of many possible solutions for when you have someone in your life who consistently steals your ideas.
Start generating ideas with subtle but catastrophic flaws when you're around them. Eventually they will latch on to one of these ideas and pass it off as their own. From there you just let the natural process unfold.
Creative people didn't get any help for a long time. They were brainwashed that they should be crazy and starving. Psychologists also couldn't help as they would categorise creatives as out of order people without understanding that it is normal for artists to have flamboyant fantasies or be sensitive or impulsive. Fortunately there are a lot of mindset change going on lately. Artists learn business. Coaches begin to specialise on artists and jump-start their careers. Artists need more empowerment and yes, they need to think about finances for their creative life. JP is so right about business. 9to 5 job will only exhaust a creative person. But creatively run business can function without the owner being there all the time
I agree fully and additionally, creative types need certification, schooling, etc. Trying to make it as a creative without any credentials is both socially and financially suicidal.
Margarita Vid 😁👍
Finally! F*cking finally! I finally know why the hell school exhausts the living being out of me. I don’t like to brag but people often tell me I’m too inteligent and creative for normal schooling, I feel the same way. More often then not I feel like school system is pulling me apart, like they are tearing the soul out of me. There isn’t much creativity involved in mechanical engineering you know? You also don’t use your brain that much because everything you learn has already been determined. It’s dreadful...
Definately! None of my "menral health" workers ever understood my creative artistic heart, just tried to labotomize me with medication and try to panel beat me back into societys mold, this doesn't work, and is poisonous to be around, i live in the middle of a toxic society that wants people like me dead
Oh my gosh right. I think I've been suppressing my creativity for all this analytical stuff and oh Lord it's fun when everything is turned upside down
That was encouraging.
Creativity is evaluated by the impact of what it creates. The inability to perceive the potential value of new things demonstrates a lack of intelligence. So, if hierarchies of authority are unable to evaluate creativity, then they are, at best, only promoting for a narrow kind of intelligence.
...I'm putting that on a t-shirt.
“There is nothing more difficult to take in hand, more perilous to conduct, or more uncertain in its success, than to take the lead in the introduction of a new order of things. For the innovator has enemies in all those who profit by the old order, and only lukewarm defenders in all those who would profit by the new order, this lukewarmness arising partly from fear of their adversaries … and partly from the incredulity of mankind, who do not truly believe in anything new until they have had actual experience of it.”
-Niccolò Machiavelli
Me: This seems like a really good quote
*Sees '-Niccolò Machiavelli' *
_ _
Also Me: (O)>(O)
O
Very true. I'm creative and I don't give a flying hoot about hierarchies.
I do see where hierarchies have merit, and it's typically where people are promoted based on merit such as in the military.
Another thing I noticed is that our entire society it designed to brainwash people to be kept at the bottom. As a young man growing up I wanted to pursue my ideas but literally everyone around me kept giving the brainwashed advice about working hard, paying dues, climbing the ladder. Meanwhile I'm like "why shouldn't I just start my own business at 18 and climb my own ladder?". And the internet was in it's infancy so there wasn't much good information which meant trying to find the info at the Library - which is basically a dart game for learning.
I think I'm very high in creativity; I find it utterly boring to do things the traditional way, but I ran into exactly the problem he mentioned, where I entered a new hierarchy, found its flaws, pointed them out, and was completely disregarded because I hadn't built up any status in the hierarchy.
So I gritted my teeth, worked hard, and built up some respect. Not much, just enough that I couldn't be disregarded offhand, and now my ideas, once radical, are considered common practice. Unfortunately, that's now left that domain uninteresting to me so I've left it behind, which is something that a lot of people fail to consider. The problems of creativity don't stop once you reach a point of respect, they just start all over again.
Which is why it's nice to have a relatively stable career to back me up as I run headlong into an infinite chain of problems. JP is 100% right in that respect.
Isn’t there some creativity inherent in learning your way as quickly as you can up a hierarchy, at least when it comes to learning new skills? Admittedly, when it comes to repetitive implementation, earning respect is a drag…
Hence the term $tarving Artist.
It was this realization at a very young age that led me into a field of design... From there I expanded by competence and a degree of luck into management however I will say that there was an emptiness I felt throughout the process because my creativity was caged throughout 70% of my day to day activities. I do not regret it because this realization and choice led me to having a family and children that I can provide for. The creative lion within however is still rattling the cage.
I feel you
I love when argumentative people look for contradictions but end up just misinterpreting the statement👏👏
I still love to argue... hehe ;-)
Remember when Art school used to be judged solely on how well you can imitate what has already be socially judged as what Art is?
Creativity is much more than the ability to stain things and produce noise.
@@kofola9145 lmao did an artist steal your girl or sth ?
I am creative (IQ 149) and this happened to me. Stuck at the bottom of corporate hierarchies for decades, then bought a cafe four years ago and made it so successful that my bank thought I was money laundering!
How did you make the cafe successful?
Yes, but that only happened after you bought the landromat next to the cafe. :)
149IQ and you don't realize that caffeine is bad for you?
@@mattvdh
...
@@mattvdh Bro
The very condition of true artist drives them to live beyond hierarchy weather they want it or not. Artists have just different sets of values by nature, sure they pay rent and fart like all the rest but you won't allure an artist with status as easy as a bank worker, cos most of people don't have a remote idea what is "badass" in artist's eyes (and it's definitely NOT what you think at the moment it is, so it's tricky to lure them in collaborations). So there's a lot to learn from that imho.
I know someone who is extremely creative and brilliant, but whose "superiors" are essentially swaggering egos yoked to examples of stunning mediocrity. Thus, all of their interactions with this creative person can effectively be summed up as follows: "Back in your corner. Back in your corner. Back in your corner."
creative=changing things up/doing things different, which scares normies. people skills and being extroverted are essential because people will only listen to you if they find you relatable. most artists starve because they focus on their craft instead of salesmanship and pandering to idiots.
I can only speak from the perspective of a designer who has worked in the industry for 11 years now. Never EVER underestimate your stakeholder management. It's THE most important skill alongside anything you need to get your actual job done.
I've worked in highly technical and high paid software development roles and have a lot of experience.
I am also highly creative.
I've watched as my creative abilities shifted projects from being something no one had heard of to being worth millions to the organization.
And then watched as higher ups came around like vultures to fight for control of these projects.
Everything would become toxic as these projects gained traction and success.
This would crush my enthusiasm and I would inevitably leave or be forced out.
But, what these experiences taught me was that being creative and having "my own thing" isn't optional for me.
I assume there are others out there that may need to hear this or have had similar experiences.
The lack of being able to grow a project and own it fully can be soulcrushing.
I believe that with the right work ethic and a balanced lifestyle, creative people can thrive ON THERE OWN.
I think product ownership is MANDATORY though, unless you've found a sweet spot somewhere.
It may be difficult to get your project (or business) off the ground, but there's always a way.
I wish anyone struggling the best.
that's an interesting use of the word "technology" a the end there...
TheKlink What does it mean?
I think part of the problem in monetizing creativity is that creativity and business sense, or the ability to promote and sell, rarely occur together in the same person.
Disagree. Don't listen to Jordan on that point. Artists now can sell on the internet. Just be you.
@@zarazalazar Good luck with that.
Creativity and delivering that creativity disrupts hierarchies and doesn’t payoff.
Wow. I feel like this is another mythical place. I thought all my life I was the stupidest kid in the school. Always told to stop daydreaming focus and memorize. Barely made it through high school never went to college. But co founded a successful multimillion dollar distribution company.
I can’t tell you how much I had to fight against the naysayers including my own family. But I finally got it through the other side or the mystical side. I started seeing the life of a successful entrepreneur. I love It. I love every second of it. I’m glad I persisted even when I thought of quitting many times. I can finally say I am that baby bird who is thrown out of the nest and now I’m soaring. I will never trade it for anything. Persistency and resilience are my greatest asset. God receives all the glory.
I love all these comments because it shows how I’m not alone. I felt alone for a long time. I wish we had our own network.
sometimes I am guilty of keep questioning things and coming up to new ideas happily and enthusiastically which shaken all the social norms, unspoken rules, power dynamics, priorities and interests within a hierarchy. I brought up new situations which people need to give attention and energy to deal with it and the impact to everyone at the end may not be constructive in short run, and they then subconsciously dislike me of kind of forcing me to change and don't want to see me exercising my enthusiasm in front of them anymore. I felt like I am the sinner, the unfit, a source of destruction.
Chef Gordon Ramsey is very creative but he clearly has the end price in mind at all times when he is creating. Creative people can be overly altruistic and focus only on the pureness of "the work", but Ramsey always has the money and the work together in his mind and knows exactly how to turn ten bucks worth of food into fifty bucks cash. Andy Warhol thought about the price a lot, too. If you're going to be creative you're going to have to be one hell of a salesman or you'll starve for sure...
Creatives really do need to adopt an entrepreneurial mindset.
@@slicedtopieces It's not that simple though. In this particular video Peterson brings up an important point, with lots of emphasis for a reason. He says it's "very, very, very, very, very hard for creative people to monetize their creativity." You could be the world's greatest, freshest poet and learn everything there is about marketing and business but you still might only get $1,000 from a tiny publisher for your masterpiece book of poetry. It's extremely hard to make money from music, art, writing, etc. - the best advice I have is similar to Peterson's, here - you basically still need to find a career and do something you don't hate doing. For me it was taking my love of language and writing and becoming a professor. Some people who love to write get into technical writing or marketing/communications or digital marketing, etc. - basically you still need to supplement that creativity with practical skills so you can survive in the world. (And I'm a fringe case, because most people can't just get a PhD and become a professor, it's like 1% of the US population that ends up with a doctoral degree, or maybe less.)
@1:00 -ish : "Just going to write you off because it is easier than taking you seriously"
I experience this a lot . Makes me question my competence .
As a creative I can attest to this being true.
Some brilliant people in these comment.. Just wanted to take a second to acknowledge and appreciate you all.
Ideas are not evaluated on their individual merits alone. In strict, top down hierarchies, ideas that come from the bottom are often ignored by the top and stolen by the middle.
HATE THE MUSIC AT THE END???
God damn, it's so annoying!
+Hernán Cortés sounds exactly like title music for a 1980s TV crime drama.
All that's missing is a speed boat running from the coast guard
Hernán Cortés what about the video itself
I know this can't be a solution for everyone, but I've been having a lot of joy with programming and trying to be creative with it. Just different approaches to practical scenarios (I've made a script that takes care of my time sheet, I'm working on a lot of ideas for this Android app called Tasker which opens up a lot of possibilities, and I'm automating different tasks at my office job like a certain daily email, file sorting, etc.) I think perhaps I'd fall under the creative and orderly type which is why a creative approach to a logical system has been rewarding, but I still think it's a useful idea to conduct yourself as creatively as possible with your job even if it isn't your creative avenue of choice (such as music). It sucks that creative people can't just follow their strong suit and live out of poverty in most cases, but life isn't gonna change how it approaches you so change how you approach it.
Congratulations man, I looked up your app and it's great to see how successful it has become
I miss this Jordan Peterson
the ending song makes me feel like im installing a crack for my favourite game. Love you
The relationship between intellect and creativity is the ability to manipulate categories. You must be able to understand and distinguish between existing categories, evaluate categories effectively, and develop new categories meaningfully. An intellect focuses on effectiveness and meaningfulness and therefore doesn't garner attention to his own creativity. An intellect is nevertheless as creative as any highly creative person. A person who focuses on creativity devoid of effectiveness and meaning doesn't do themselves any favors. Their creativity may be aesthetically pleasing, but not usually very marketable - it's harder to trade it for what they need. A creative person needs to go back to their ability to understand categories and tap into their intellect in order to turn their creativity into something effective - teleology - and meaningful - epistemology. These are useful categories that can direct creativity into something that can be traded. So it's a little bit of an identity shift, or perhaps it's better to couch it as the maturing of one's identity as a creative person.
Totally, man. Data analysis day job; comedy on the side.
Damn, I love the music at the end : )
🤣🤣🤣😎
GOD DAMN IT JORDAN!!! HE"S SO GOD DAMN SMART IT MAKES MY HEART HURT!
I agree with your main points except 2:00. You can go by averages over the length of a career. The greatest batting average was 400. That a whole lot of misses by Ty Cobb. But you hang around the fringes of the art scene or the music scene, or look at the obvious famous examples like David Bowie, or Fitzgerald , Picasso, or in the corporate world Steve Jobs (before everyone jumps down my throat these are all people from different times and art forms with varying levels of talent.)They all had pretty high averages though.
It’s the general public that gets it wrong. Van Gogh being the classic example or any number of jazz musicians. Anyone around the scene at the time knew Coltrane was getting on base a lot more than others though or that Brando was not like his predecessors. He sure had a lot of misses. Lol. Still most actors you’ll meet will admit he was pretty good (if they don’t Laurence Olivier’s name is usually brought up quickly. ) Another guy with good averages. A matter of taste but also averages.
"...What propels you up hierarchies of authority is intelligence and conscientiousness..."
I haven't found that description accurate. I see _fitness_ adaptation and the reliance on argumentum ad baculum in all dominance hierarchies and hierarchies of authority. I don't see competence. Some of the fitness adaptation in Humans is certainly intelligent, so I can grant that to an extent.
Still, interesting stuff.
The problem with this take is that Human consciousness, regardless of whether its high in openness or conscientiousness, is a heuristic process. At some nearly granular, fundamental level we are all chucking abstractions at the "wall of reality" to see what sticks. This noise in the process is probably fundamental to what distinguishes a conscious life form from a "merely intelligent, but unconscious" information processing system.
If that is true, does it make sense to use dominance and authority hierarchies - which by their nature do not place this at the foundation of all possible value, rather suppress it... I don't see that it makes sense at all. Hmm...
Seems like a waste of potential "CPU" if you will.
Challenge accepted.
wow this was very motivating. felt like a victim for a moment. thanks for snapping me back to my senses
subscribed for the dope music at the end 🤣 🤣 🤣
guy: Let me ask you a very abstract question.
JP: Let me give you a very abstract answer about a very specific situation I'll never define.
Hierarchy of competence is a cute idea. The reality is the hierarchy is that of likeableness and nepotism. Competence is always secondary.
Real, meaningful art is neither a job nor a hobby, nor a desire to deal with trauma and escape from the world, but - a calling. It is a painful life, rarely joyful; it is absolute chaos that wants to take shape and bring a message to the humanity that must be said. And it can be damn hard, not because of lack of money, recognition, success...Your loved ones who start judging you, because they misunderstand and think you're throwing your life away. But because of doubt that is always present and thousands of questions that arise. Why all this? I have a degree in economics, I could do really good jobs, and yet, when I'm not painting, I feel miserable and have nothing to look forward to. Everything seems wrong. But the hardest of all are the days when I simply can't create, and those days are painful and unbearable, especially since I quit drinking years ago and have to get through it sober. Imagine working on a piece for six months, only to destroy it in fifteen minutes - yes those things happen sometimes, and yes it's a horror. But then again, the relief and blessing of the moment when it's all done and the paintings turn out just right is the greatest possible reward there is. But it doesn't last long, because new paintings are yet to be made...
You need to upskill. To get to the top you need to become a hell of a salesman, and get some extra competencies that fit the new role. I'm curious whether project management is for creative people.
"Creative" does not mean artists. Artists are starving because they create little value. Telling jokes or jamming with friends does not mean much of anything. It means ppl who come up with inventions, new technologies, new ways of doing things. Important stuff.
artists are starving because they create little value WOW.
@@evans2267 Have you tried to sell your gucy gang copy to your friend?
Just because you don't see value in something doesn't mean it's of little value, it just means that you are blind to its value.
'Telling jokes' has no value, say that to a successful comedian.
'Jamming with friends' has no value? Say that to any well knows musician, and they will tell you how very wrong you are.
@@suraspen8152 if artists are starving them because they create little of value= if Artists are not starving then because they create something of value.
Modern art=creation of 5yo old. Yet there are ppl who actually pay money for modern art. What's the difference?
The ability to convince others of subjective value?
@@kofola9145 Isn't your whole argument baised around the ignorant assumption that all artists are starving?
Let's not even go into the argument on the value of art, the value of any object is different to different people. And I wouldn't expect you to understand the value I see in art and entertainment for that matter.
The rate at which it is sold, if the artist is willing to sell it, is a price agreed upon by the buyer and the seller unlike mass produced products.
All I can see in your last point is that you fail to see any form of art that is currently sold other than modern art.
I'll take digital art as an example for this, going from logos, graphic novels, digital paintings, etc. Each of them have their own market and the prices always depend on what the artist sees its value to be.
I personally am unable to see the value in what is generally described as modern art either but I am certain that it holds value to the artist and the buyer.
Does anyone know the jp video where he also talks about the personality traits saying some people are systematisers? I want to know if I am creative type or a systematiser.
you can now easily live outside that hierarchy in "parallel society" using bitcoin, working remote or build business with like minded people.
What’s the song at the end?
Maybe the conscientiously driven economy and top of the hierarchy ought to consider that if money is the bottleneck of many creatives that also include those that should lead a business, then money ought not to be concentrated to the bureaucratic managers. That is, a socialist economy and a democratic business, a la Richard Wolff co-op business model.
I don’t know what he means by creative people. But basically all the tech entrepreneurs where creative and came up with radical new ideas that made them very wealthy.
Maybe he means people in the art and music industry.
Just one thing anoyed me in the video production;
This Song in the last saconds invading the video
well you just described me, at the bottom of the hierarchy i rot to my death :)
In big companies its not who is the best, who works the hardest, its about the good ol boys still and thats why the world is in the trouble its in --Everyone just keeps playing the game
Managers are taught the carrot and the stick to deal with "employees" Things will change one way or another.
huh?
Almost all of my life problems are summed up here. Guess i'll have to find a traditional job to stabilize myself economically
Yo what’s this music from at the end it’s so familiar
Don’t know the name of it but it’s from One Piece
That is why creative entrepreneurs often kill large companies.
whats the title for the ending music?
This is me and my first job and how I was eventually laid off at 25. Little do they know I will buy the company at its peak and disrupt their primitive hierarchical structure
How did you do it?
Agreed!
It help me, thanks.
2:37 creative people can't monetise
They need a manager
"How the hell do you evaluate a creative person" (01:45) First of all: There is no distinction between "creative" people and .... "not creative?" people, except that "creative people" were to stubborn to let go of their natural urge to create, where others did in order to take their place in society that is built on conscientiousness, and therefore found a way to manifest their creativity. One would expect from a psychologist to know these things. And second of all: why would you want to determine how to evaluate any person at all, creative or otherwise?
You are basically saying that everybody starts with the same creative ability. That doesn't seem right. Some (most) people do give up their ambition to become a soulless slave.
@@hgzmatt They become desperate and are tricked by evil talentless selfish fat people in power. ie HR Huseless Retards.
Climb that ladder first before you present your radical ideas to the authorities. That's how humans work, they listen to people that already made a name for themselves because in human nature they knew that they have something effective and reasonable to say, just like how the weak people back at the stone ages got shielded by the strong tall cavemen for their survival. Because they will always think that the reason you're at the bottom is because you don't have what it takes to earn the same respect, position, and reputation they have.
Is openness the same as creativity or are they different
same
This guy is a perfect example of a person all Adderall’d out
But I think if creative people do reach the top they will create so many more branches for others increasing the number of opportunities.
High Creative High Agreeable people. Where do they fit on the heirarchy 😭.
Do creative work outside of your job....Do it so that it stabalises your emotional and personality needs...Even perhaps spiritual needs, but you may have to just accept that your day to day job will be as boring as bat shit....One way to combat that boredom is to be as consienteous as possible...It won't be easy, but there is life after work and if you need to create enough, then you'll create in your spare time.
The belittling way he speaks about those ‘starting out at the bottom’ and somehow justifying the fact that no one listens to them is what is wrong in the world and wrong with JP himself. True leaders actually crave input from the ‘young ones’ (in stead of silencing them because of a false sense of ‘superiority’)
That hard eyy
In general… creativity is a pain in the neck 😂
I think japan suffers in a similar manner as manga
artist are pressure into submitting by the schedule
Fuck everybody else, this music is beautiful
I believe creative people should not rebel against authoritative and conscientious forces. Mainly because it's hard to survive and fulfil human needs and wants when rebelling against it. As much as its advertised, Most people do not get in the position of financial independence and success because of creation. It's extremely hard to be an entrepreneur.
Instead creative people should accept the forces for what they are. Obtain a career, observe the hierarchy in which you are subjected to and analyze why you have such a problem with it.
Now once you are achieving a stable and consistent income, start creating your ass off. Let your dreams and goals motivate you to elevate into a higher position in life.
Your goal of creativity never changed, you just changed how you felt about authority and conscientious and twisted it into your benefit of creating something in your life.
Wow
I work in an environment with a creative Director and its been hell!
Why?
Yep. That was my life until I decided to work freelance. Problem solved✅
1st
I'm also a pain in the neck, and at the bottom of this comment section.
wow your so smart gee wiz
word
lol no you have to bootlick your way up the hierarchy, and pointing out its flaws is seen as an attack rather than an attempt to improve.
How people around the world indicate that they're done talking
Pharaohs: "So let it be done. So let it be written."
Native Americans: "Hugh, I have spoken."
Koreans: "Seumida."
American presidents: "Thank you, and God bless America."
Dolphins: "So long, and thanks for all the fish."
UA-camrs: "Please subscribe and hit that notification button."
Jordan Peterson: "So..."
i would like to add that technology has allowed creative people to monetise their skills much easily
Very true. I have a series that explores ways that creative people can monetize their passion and companies like Apple and google have made this a reality for many of them.
So why compromise and "work" with small mind and egos. I'd rather be broke and create than tolerate and have a pay check... If I'm not creating what would I be motivated to buy, pay bills for and own if I'm not living out my God given talents?! Nonsensical
You know the worst is having a creative job and having all the creativity sucked out from it. When you come home you are so drained you have no drive to do anything.
@@hgzmatt True with a capital T
Today it is 24/12/2024... I am just starting an endeavor to monetize my creativity. Can someone, please, call me up in one year to ask how it went?
Good luck my friend!
why do people just connect creativity with art to become an inventor or a good scientist u need to be creative...
Is this not more a case of too many fish: More creative people than necessary, as seen in areas of employment which require such?
I know he points to this at the end. But I think my issue with this is he's neglecting the impact monopolies play on creativity. We can bang on all day about the positive effects of industrialisation (higher average wealth, longer life expectancy, better medicine etc) which gave rise to the digital age we're now living. But what has it done to the local smith, jeweller, woodscraftsman, potter, painter....? Sure it would have been hard if you were at the very bottom (say; an orphan-turned-adult) during early Victorian Britain, for e.g. , to garner the capital required to start a local business. And most continued within the family business irregardless. And life wasn't nearly as pleasant as today, admittedly, in terms of comfort.
But at least you knew you didn't have to compete with a fast economy where companies like Amazon were your main competition, and growth of small business is discouraged and actively surpressed by bigger business, or distrubtors of your wares (I'm looking at you Etsy!).
I studied Art & Design at college (UK), and remember discussions surrounding ludditism within the Impressionist Movement.....
Over 100 years on, and they were right!...There has been a destruction of beauty.
And I speak only for myself when I say this; But if discomfort is the trade-off for raw beauty, give me discomfort!
The human body isn't designed for perpetual comfort anyway. It's unnatural.
Sell your art on the internet. Just be you. Jordan is wrong to his point where he states: 'we can't survive on art'. He comes from a different era. I sell my architectural plans and then have a small catalog of ancelary home products like solar panels. Good luck!
Lol you either have a day job or you create. Both? Fat chance
Edit: note, theres a difference between having a day job and doing something to pay the bills. You can door dash a bit or work part time at the grocery store. Your life won't be lavish; you may have to grocery shop at dollar general and live in a trailer, but youll be happy with the mental and emotional freedom being a self directed creative provides.
i appear to be in a nutshell
that outro music is so inappropriate haha goddamn
Phew i am not low status because i am lazy i am just creative
yeah... Da Vinci would be a really great "creative director" gotta ground that creative genius in something that makes a living...
You only know his name because he was a good businessman
Might you think that creative people have such a hard time of it, partly due to these stereotypical beliefs around "the starving artist"? The Arts and Cultural sector of BC earns more than the lumber and fishing industries combined.
Also I seem to be able to "monetize" my art (portraiture)
ShaheeMedia.com/portraits
facebook.com/CyberGypsyArts
Use your "EXTRA" time??? Time is worth more than money, and While trying to survive the California economy and work with small minds grinding away at their only purpose, the "structural" job steals and sucks away time and energy. It hasn't been until I've put MOST of my time into my art n music by barely working a modern day BS job that I've found true substance and purpose. Love you Peterson but as you would know dime a dozen folks will never understand a creative mind and that's not going to hinder me any longer
You need some better paintings on your walls. :))
Its really not that hard in today's age. Technology has broadened the scope immensely for creative people and so has the pandemic.
Recipe
1. Make sure whatever skill/s you have as a creative person is at its peak and that you are competent - if not don't bother going further until you have reached that place.
2. Learn as much as you can about micro economics. Essentially you are an entrepreneur so if you do not have fundamental business skills as a creative - U WILL FAIL!
3. Connect to like minded people - don't be throwing ideas to people who don't get you - this is important in building a team of people around you - this does not mean you have a team.
4. Look and see who are people who are doing exactly what you would like to do - find out how they did it - copy + paste - make adjustment where necessary to fit your narrative
5. Do the work - rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat, rinse and repeat. Be patient, eat sh*t, don't be entitled - the world don't owe you nothing. rinse and repeat.
I went from leaving a full time job in Advertising just before the pandemic hit to a full time Artist. Within 3 months I regretted I had done it. This forced me reevaluate my strategy - within 4 months after that I was bringing enough money in a month that equated to 2 months salary in my previous job.