Best video of the series. It gives a very good example of the problems of communication. A nice touch would have been to have a single stationary person Dan could call for the first hour, (until the "enemy artillery cut the line".) I think it was insightful to look at the impact on morale too. Dan's team were dejected and quick to blame the leadership, just like soldiers did in the Great War. However, what would have helped the generals of the time would be to have gone forward occasionally to actually see the conditions on the ground. We saw that too in WW2, with MacArthur wanting to put a road through the Kokoda track for instance, but the problem was even worse in WW1.
+Browntau well, generals could went forward to see with their own eyes what's going on, but this simply couldn't work. It was possible a generation earlier, when battlefields had only miles across, and a general could ride in minutes to the most remote corner of the battlefield. In WW1, battlefield stretched for tens or even hundreds of miles. No general could "tour" a battlefield in time enough to have a clear picture of what's happening. He had to rely on communications (which were not far away from his father's days). I think there's nothing a general could do to improve this mess.
+Cipi Ripi Modern movement speeds today are matched with modern communication gear, but in the Great War, communication equipment was static, as in stationary. A unit advancing was largely limited to the use of runners, or occasionally flags. The point I was trying to make is that not only were generals limited by communication technology, they were limited by their knowledge of the nature of the actual fighting. Many simply didn't understand how limiting the mud and barbed wire was to advancing troops, and how effective defensive fire was in repelling assaults. As junior officers with battlefield experience were promoted, they took with them a knowledge of what hadn't worked. Lessons were learnt, and by 1918, the Entente forces were able to co-ordinate artillery, tanks and infantry in an effective way. Mind you, so could the Germans...
+Cipi Ripi I just realised I'd misread your comment somewhat. Yes, the Great War trench network went on for hundreds of miles and one general knowing the terrain well over that length is simply impossible. However, divisional commanders, usually a general, we're in charge of only two to three km of front, would know what the local weather was like, and should be familiar with the terrain his men fought over. Some made the effort, like the commander of the Irish Guards, one of the few units not to take severe casualties on the first day of the Somme. Others didn't, leading to a waste of men. I think too matters of class distinction came to influence events, but that's another whole can of worms.
Browntau Anyway, if a general would go forward and see with his eyes what's going on, that solve only half the problem. Once he figure what's going on. how can relay new orders to front line troops? If he's lucky enough to find a field phone nearby, he can redirect artillery fire on new targets, but what about frontline troops? They are already in no-man's land, or in ennemy trenches. He must rely on runners, which cand be killed at tremeduous rate. So even if a general see the situation looks grim, how can he call off an attack? How can he exploit an opportunity for flanking or enveloping manouver? There's almost nothing he can do. (In the next war, any commander leading from the front, like Rommel or Patton were accompanied everywhere with cars or halftrack overloaded with radio and communication equipment).
A wonderful and highly informative series. a very high level of knowledge imparted in an entertaining and easlity unerstandable manner ie short, sharp and to the point. Well done everyone.
+Matthew Moses yeap, but field telephones have two major drawbacks: 1. they can be cut by artillery fire, so, unless there are a lot (and I really mean A LOT) of redundancy in your phone network, those field phones become quickly useless. 2. Field phones are useful in defensive battles, when you have to defend the ground you already control and prepared for defense (trenches, barbed wires and of course, field phone lines). But they are useless in offensive, because, once you're "over the top", there simply are no phone lines. You can hastily lay some lines by advancing soldiers, but these lines are very prone to be cut by shelling, so they use is very very limited.
Dan organised his resources incredibly badly though. Firstly he should have split the map into zones and allocated a team to each zone. Every few streets within the zone you have a predetermined meeting point and give the team a time to be there by and a length of time to stay there. Then he should have kept one player from each team, preferrably with a bike back at HQ. The teams can then split up and search the streets for there contacts heading systematically to the next meeting point for the allocated time and if there are any changes to orders the runner / riders head to the meeting point with the next allocated time after receiving the orders. Having delivered the orders the rider then returns to base incase there are any further changes. Probably would still have been beaten by the mobile team, but certainly would have delivered more than one card.
War was always based on a failure to communicate, no surprise. On the same vein, modern warfare always start with the primary objective to destroy communication networks of your enemies.
Idiots in the comments here, so many . The Royal Engineers Signals Service did outstanding work under often impossible circumstances. The Dispatch Riders and message dogs often were necessary as other means of communications were decidedly not reliable. The wireless was reliable but not early in the war. Just as they had learned in the US Civil War to tap telegraph lines, all sides did this during WW1. One famous story involved a field hospital that was being shelled. The commander ordered the signaller to send -Stop. You are shelling a hospital. The shelling ceased. Operational security was often sketchy at best due to the taps.
Pretty sure it would have been easier in the trenches due to the fact of there is no pedestrians, traffic and chaos in the way and the useful fact that people who are on the same team are wearing the same uniform in a linear trenching system.
Phillip Stone except the area you're communicating over would be massively expanded and there are the minor considerations of bullets killing your messengers and troops and the occasional enemy overrunning some of your positions.
in war you need to adapt too there's no point in just sticking to something as you need to be able think for yourself. even the germans let some commanders adapt to the changing situation on the battlefield we should have done the same.
The team without modern communication should in theory win as they don't have immediate communication meaning they should have more tactics as they have to think more to make up for it
Maybe I'm thick but I really didn't get the point of this. It wasn't explained very clearly as far as I'm concerned. They're looking for people in blue shirts, fine, whats the point of the playing cards? I'd have walked off his team after ten minutes of frustration. I could definitely have designed a better plan for staying in touch, half his team should have been designated as runners going to and from Command and the field units. I generally have enjoyed this series but this episode is a bloody shambles. Good idea for a game though.
Far as I could tell, they could only score once off each person they found, and the card was the way of indicating that. As for the initial plan...I think they did that intentionally just to highlight the gaps and weaknesses of the time period's communications abilities, rather than to really "compete" to win.
Mike Dench I totally agree they never mentioned the many runners they had between the different trenches in ww1 My grandfather was a ww1 message runner as well as being shot and injured several times from behind friendly fire due to the fact of running in and out of trenches
The telephone wires tended to be cut rather quickly by random artillery fire and other battle hazards. The flares idea was tried at the Battle of the Somme, but the fighting troops soon stopped using them as the enemy could see them too, and bombarded any position where a flare was sent up. The spotter pilots were forced into going down low enough to try and see the colour of the uniforms under a coating of mud.
Interesting content. Lose the shaky cam, and by the way, since we're the audience, maybe you could face the camera and not look as though you're addressing someone out-of-frame. That technique just screams, "My image is what is important here, not my subject. Gaze upon my magnificence".
Can't believe they used the merry go happy music for a documentary about one of the most atrocious war in the history of mankind. What's it for? Kids that'd rather go disco and shake their arses off than actually attend their history lectures?
Best video of the series. It gives a very good example of the problems of communication. A nice touch would have been to have a single stationary person Dan could call for the first hour, (until the "enemy artillery cut the line".) I think it was insightful to look at the impact on morale too. Dan's team were dejected and quick to blame the leadership, just like soldiers did in the Great War. However, what would have helped the generals of the time would be to have gone forward occasionally to actually see the conditions on the ground. We saw that too in WW2, with MacArthur wanting to put a road through the Kokoda track for instance, but the problem was even worse in WW1.
+Browntau well, generals could went forward to see with their own eyes what's going on, but this simply couldn't work. It was possible a generation earlier, when battlefields had only miles across, and a general could ride in minutes to the most remote corner of the battlefield. In WW1, battlefield stretched for tens or even hundreds of miles. No general could "tour" a battlefield in time enough to have a clear picture of what's happening. He had to rely on communications (which were not far away from his father's days). I think there's nothing a general could do to improve this mess.
+Cipi Ripi Modern movement speeds today are matched with modern communication gear, but in the Great War, communication equipment was static, as in stationary. A unit advancing was largely limited to the use of runners, or occasionally flags.
The point I was trying to make is that not only were generals limited by communication technology, they were limited by their knowledge of the nature of the actual fighting. Many simply didn't understand how limiting the mud and barbed wire was to advancing troops, and how effective defensive fire was in repelling assaults. As junior officers with battlefield experience were promoted, they took with them a knowledge of what hadn't worked. Lessons were learnt, and by 1918, the Entente forces were able to co-ordinate artillery, tanks and infantry in an effective way. Mind you, so could the Germans...
+Cipi Ripi I just realised I'd misread your comment somewhat. Yes, the Great War trench network went on for hundreds of miles and one general knowing the terrain well over that length is simply impossible. However, divisional commanders, usually a general, we're in charge of only two to three km of front, would know what the local weather was like, and should be familiar with the terrain his men fought over.
Some made the effort, like the commander of the Irish Guards, one of the few units not to take severe casualties on the first day of the Somme. Others didn't, leading to a waste of men.
I think too matters of class distinction came to influence events, but that's another whole can of worms.
Browntau Anyway, if a general would go forward and see with his eyes what's going on, that solve only half the problem. Once he figure what's going on. how can relay new orders to front line troops? If he's lucky enough to find a field phone nearby, he can redirect artillery fire on new targets, but what about frontline troops? They are already in no-man's land, or in ennemy trenches. He must rely on runners, which cand be killed at tremeduous rate. So even if a general see the situation looks grim, how can he call off an attack? How can he exploit an opportunity for flanking or enveloping manouver? There's almost nothing he can do. (In the next war, any commander leading from the front, like Rommel or Patton were accompanied everywhere with cars or halftrack overloaded with radio and communication equipment).
A wonderful and highly informative series. a very high level of knowledge imparted in an entertaining and easlity unerstandable manner ie short, sharp and to the point. Well done everyone.
Well done everyone except the sound guy.* FTFY
This game sounds incredibly fun.
They should have given the one team pigeons and telephone wire. :)
Good point.
Nice little pub that too, the HMS er President
It's crazy how well they can recognize the street names so easily
Looks like this was the inspiration for the score of the match between Germany and Brazil
Military field telephones were in widespread use prior to WW1, not much use in London but very useful in warfare...
+Matthew Moses yeap, but field telephones have two major drawbacks: 1. they can be cut by artillery fire, so, unless there are a lot (and I really mean A LOT) of redundancy in your phone network, those field phones become quickly useless. 2. Field phones are useful in defensive battles, when you have to defend the ground you already control and prepared for defense (trenches, barbed wires and of course, field phone lines). But they are useless in offensive, because, once you're "over the top", there simply are no phone lines. You can hastily lay some lines by advancing soldiers, but these lines are very prone to be cut by shelling, so they use is very very limited.
They is crazy! It's vital to have a good communication in battle.
Never forget 7-1
Dan organised his resources incredibly badly though. Firstly he should have split the map into zones and allocated a team to each zone. Every few streets within the zone you have a predetermined meeting point and give the team a time to be there by and a length of time to stay there. Then he should have kept one player from each team, preferrably with a bike back at HQ. The teams can then split up and search the streets for there contacts heading systematically to the next meeting point for the allocated time and if there are any changes to orders the runner / riders head to the meeting point with the next allocated time after receiving the orders. Having delivered the orders the rider then returns to base incase there are any further changes. Probably would still have been beaten by the mobile team, but certainly would have delivered more than one card.
no cause we watched this in history and ldn by lily allen started playing (shes my fav singer everr) and i literally screamed- ITS LILY ALLEN!
Thank god, for Radio's and Mobile (Cell) Phones, When you Trouble there a way getting help, Thank you Dan Snow and BBC team
War was always based on a failure to communicate, no surprise. On the same vein, modern warfare always start with the primary objective to destroy communication networks of your enemies.
These ww1 weapons and other equipments look so beautiful. I wish i could see them one day.
British scientists proved that comunicating without modern comunication devices is hard.
Did they get any grants for this experiment?
they probably used the money to get stoned and drunk then realised, oh shit we're supposed to be doing some stupid and obvious experiment
Wow never thought about that..very interesting!!
Interesting example. Team 1 is totally bamboozled.
Oh, Suzannah.....
Dan snow should be PM
the inclusion of that particular song at the start
It's called London Calling.
Idiots in the comments here, so many . The Royal Engineers Signals Service did outstanding work under often impossible circumstances. The Dispatch Riders and message dogs often were necessary as other means of communications were decidedly not reliable. The wireless was reliable but not early in the war. Just as they had learned in the US Civil War to tap telegraph lines, all sides did this during WW1. One famous story involved a field hospital that was being shelled. The commander ordered the signaller to send -Stop. You are shelling a hospital. The shelling ceased. Operational security was often sketchy at best due to the taps.
Pretty sure it would have been easier in the trenches due to the fact of there is no pedestrians, traffic and chaos in the way and the useful fact that people who are on the same team are wearing the same uniform in a linear trenching system.
not necessarily bc commanders couldnt relay messages to cut off companies
Phillip Stone except the area you're communicating over would be massively expanded and there are the minor considerations of bullets killing your messengers and troops and the occasional enemy overrunning some of your positions.
Phillip Stone but the traffic and the pedestrians are replaced by shells and an enemy shooting at you
Dan Snow, a classic example of continued nepotism at the BBC.
+John Know I know its a bit late, but I dont get why this specific show is hated whats wrong with it?
in war you need to adapt too there's no point in just sticking to something as you need to be able think for yourself. even the germans let some commanders adapt to the changing situation on the battlefield we should have done the same.
Nothing ever go according to plan but believe or not it's actually normal that's why it's so difficult to keep order in everyday life🤣😃
The team without modern communication should in theory win as they don't have immediate communication meaning they should have more tactics as they have to think more to make up for it
4:47 are those 40k model bases?
PVEntertainment no
Maybe I'm thick but I really didn't get the point of this. It wasn't explained very clearly as far as I'm concerned. They're looking for people in blue shirts, fine, whats the point of the playing cards? I'd have walked off his team after ten minutes of frustration. I could definitely have designed a better plan for staying in touch, half his team should have been designated as runners going to and from Command and the field units. I generally have enjoyed this series but this episode is a bloody shambles. Good idea for a game though.
Far as I could tell, they could only score once off each person they found, and the card was the way of indicating that.
As for the initial plan...I think they did that intentionally just to highlight the gaps and weaknesses of the time period's communications abilities, rather than to really "compete" to win.
Mike Dench I totally agree they never mentioned the many runners they had between the different trenches in ww1
My grandfather was a ww1 message runner as well as being shot and injured several times from behind friendly fire due to the fact of running in and out of trenches
A group of random, jolly civilians goes for a stroll in the city. They're hard to find. Now, what about World War I?
İstanbulda yapmak lazım bunu
Why didn't they use flares and telephones they were in ww1
The telephone wires tended to be cut rather quickly by random artillery fire and other battle hazards.
The flares idea was tried at the Battle of the Somme, but the fighting troops soon stopped using them as the enemy could see them too, and bombarded any position where a flare was sent up. The spotter pilots were forced into going down low enough to try and see the colour of the uniforms under a coating of mud.
Interesting content. Lose the shaky cam, and by the way, since we're the audience, maybe you could face the camera and not look as though you're addressing someone out-of-frame. That technique just screams, "My image is what is important here, not my subject. Gaze upon my magnificence".
Can't believe they used the merry go happy music for a documentary about one of the most atrocious war in the history of mankind. What's it for? Kids that'd rather go disco and shake their arses off than actually attend their history lectures?
its a tv show not a documentary
Why aren‘t you wearing ww1 Uniforms? xD
Rubbish show.