W.Evans consistenly one of the best back rows all season - excellent work rate and a menace around the breakdown. Surely he deserves at least a training spot whilst the top 4 teams are absent?
Because it’s a summer series it’s to test newer players and lower capped players (plus a couple of senior players) and we know how good steward is. This allows new players to compete while they are on form.
Dammit you're right, I searched for Sodeke and did watch him for U20s so I should have got that right...my bad! Both of them in the second row for England in the future could be world class
I wonder if the selection of Wimbush is reminiscent of the selection of Banahan? Are you picking him simply because he is big? I wouldn't have him near even a training squad at the moment. Once he starts getting regular-ish starts for Exeter he might be in the conversation, but not yet.
@@rugbyanalyst agree to a degree and if for instance Esterhuizen or van Rensburg were English I think they would walk into the squad. Unfortunately, we don’t seem to be producing those types of players and I think pushing Wimbush into the training squad smacks of desperation. Seb Atkinson literally has five times as many starts this season. I’d rather select him. I think Wimbush will be in the conversation at some point as will (in my opinion) Rekeiti Ma'asi-White and Tom Litchfield but it is either too early or they are potentially involved in the semi finals. Oh for a young and healthy Manu Tuilagi, aye?
Still whispers going around that tyron green qualifies for England and I think he could be some series threat at international in the back three especially if he was partnered up with Marcus smith at 10
Why not take another non-English player! It’s not like England already have a huge advantage with player population over most countries already. Why not let another foreign born player take the jersey off an actual English born player! 😂
Lack of a good tighthead and a proper 12 are the only problems, elsewhere England look good. I'd want Mercer, Barbeary and Fisliau all in the squad to sort out who the starting 8 should be.
Think if anytime Mercer would've got into a squad would've been before the last World Cup. I don't think Borthwick will like his comments and forget about them (but that said he had a disagreement with Billy V and still selected him). I think Mercer is a great club player but probably looked a bit better than his true value in a big pack at Montpellier. Lastly, Dombrandt outplayed him in the Big Game at Twickenham - Borthwick does hold Olive trees out to players he's dropped when they go back to club level and improve like Dombrandt and Henry Slade did.
Good to see so many Chiefs on the list. For now I think only Slade, Roots and Feyi-Waboso have a chance of starting, but it would be great to see the others involved. My only change would be Wyatt for Hodge, who needs to become more of a team player.
I see Evans being in there, otherwise we've only got 1 real openside in the training squad. Then Steward absolutely has to go for me. Lots of people are writing him off as a 1 trick pony, forgetting that he's only 23 years old, he has loads of room for development and I think he has started to show a bit more in attack this year. I'd leave Hodge and Redshaw at home or take one as an "apprentice player" as they're both pretty lightweight, and take Steward and one more fullback/utility as Beard also plays wing. Others have suggested Hathaway but I like Shillcock, although that's really just preference at that point.
I think you need someone in the squad who consistently fails to convert their club form into the international arena. Someone who slides off tackles and who goes missing for large portions of the match, but who has a solid left boot, even though he rarely has the tactical nous to use it to it's best effect. Now, who fits that description?
It would be good to see James Williams in the training squad. Watching him for Bristol he seems to be able to do everything Owen Farrell does as a 12 but without the high tackles and shouting at referees.
No mention of Seb Blake of Gloucester at hooker, has been excellent, I would have in training squad in place of either Riley of Harlequins or Ogre of Bristol. Redshaw of Newcastle Falcons will be a very good player, currently missing defensive experience, I would pick Noah Heward of Bristol, covers both full back and wing, serious pace
For me, I would not put Cole or Marler in this initial training squad, I like Street and I think Davidson's good - how about VRR is he back and fit yet? For the back three, I would take a look at Josh Hathaway from Gloucester
Didnt think JVP looked any good when he had a run, porter and randall would be it, wait for mitchell and spencer. Agree williams, want some gas in the back 3 for sure. Thought ibotoye has looked good this season. I think steward is too slow and doesn't offer enough in attack but also that Borthwick will go conservative and pick him
Do not see the point of picking Dombrandt. He has had plenty of chances at international level and failed to take any of them. I am guessing Finn Smith is injured because he looks more assured at international level than Marcus. Maybe not for the future but Trevor Davison deserves another try, particular as he can play both sides of the scrum
Cole in the past has been a stand out player for England throughout the years but think his time is up after watching him him in the 6 nations, yes still big and strong in the scrum but apart from that think he's slowed down to much and will be easily picked off by a running forward.
5 number 8s yeah? 😂 I’d have Will Evans for Clement and Harding for Mercer. I’d also have Dan Kelly and Seb Atkinson in, we need to start looking at the next 12. Curve ball but I reckon Feyi-Waboso could slot in at 12 too. Gotta have Steward in, can’t leave him out. For the time being I’d have him and Malins as the two fullbacks in camp
think an XV in the summer I'd like to see is: 1. Genge 2. George (c) 3. Cole 4. Itoje 5. Martin 6. CCS 7. Underhill 8. Earl 9. Mitchell 10. Ford 11. IFW 12. Lawrence 13. Slade 14. Freeman 15. Furbank 16. Langdon 17. Baxter 18. Stuart 19. Roots 20. Dombrandt 21. JVP 22. Smith 23. Hendy Would like to see the likes of Steward, F.Smith and Daly given a go as they still have plenty to offer. Without Chessum, I'm a bit worried of our depth at Lock, I wouldn't be surprised if Ewels or Coles gets a call up. Another player who I seriously rate at 13 is Litchfield and agree with many others that Will Evans should be given a look in at least
Agree Baxter,shame against about Collier.What about Thacker at hooker? Martin for sure.Cunningham South,Earl,not Mercer, Barberry,Roots.Can be exciting side but will Borthwick listen to you 😅
The argument for not picking Will Evans always seems to become very wishy washy very fast. “Just not sure he is an England player/is he ready to step up?”. Rubbish arguments, he’s the top tackler and jackaler in the prem. has been the best jackal threat by miles for 3 years now. As far as 7’s go he should be a shoe in (especially for this squad)
7’s is one route for him, the other would involve him leaving Newcastle for a better team to see just how dangerous he really can be in 15s with a little front foot ball.
W.Evans consistenly one of the best back rows all season - excellent work rate and a menace around the breakdown. Surely he deserves at least a training spot whilst the top 4 teams are absent?
Nice to see Sodeke in, I thought he was brilliant in the U20 six nations.
The picture he used is of Junior Kpoku lol
So Steward has gone from nailed on England starter to not even getting in the training squad when 4 teams are missing? Seems harsh to me
Yeah it is harsh. I'm just thinking that England want to go down the attacking fullback route you might as well go all in
I don't get it either. Plus, Steward has been playing well - looked sharp and powerful against Exeter.
Because it’s a summer series it’s to test newer players and lower capped players (plus a couple of senior players) and we know how good steward is. This allows new players to compete while they are on form.
@@joeboonmusic4004 No pace when playing at international level.
Josh Hathaway is one to look at as a potential fullback, worth having him in camp while the other 4 teams are ineligible?
4:04 thats Junior Kpoku not Olamide Sodeke. I think Kpoku plays in France now
Dammit you're right, I searched for Sodeke and did watch him for U20s so I should have got that right...my bad! Both of them in the second row for England in the future could be world class
We just need to get Kpoku back from France - loved watching them both at U20
I wonder if the selection of Wimbush is reminiscent of the selection of Banahan? Are you picking him simply because he is big? I wouldn't have him near even a training squad at the moment. Once he starts getting regular-ish starts for Exeter he might be in the conversation, but not yet.
Yea , there's a bit of a punt there for sure, but England need to look at big centre options as a priority
@@rugbyanalyst agree to a degree and if for instance Esterhuizen or van Rensburg were English I think they would walk into the squad. Unfortunately, we don’t seem to be producing those types of players and I think pushing Wimbush into the training squad smacks of desperation. Seb Atkinson literally has five times as many starts this season. I’d rather select him. I think Wimbush will be in the conversation at some point as will (in my opinion) Rekeiti Ma'asi-White and Tom Litchfield but it is either too early or they are potentially involved in the semi finals. Oh for a young and healthy Manu Tuilagi, aye?
The sooner England drop the ludicrous policy of only picking Premiership players, the better. Too much talent has gone abroad anyway.
Some big boys here.
Still whispers going around that tyron green qualifies for England and I think he could be some series threat at international in the back three especially if he was partnered up with Marcus smith at 10
Interesting, I thought he still had a year or so to go
Why not take another non-English player! It’s not like England already have a huge advantage with player population over most countries already. Why not let another foreign born player take the jersey off an actual English born player! 😂
@@rugbyanalyst he does. Qualifies next autumn
Excellent shout still doesn’t appear as sharp as he was prior to injury.
@gprugby how many of the welsh players were born in England?
Lack of a good tighthead and a proper 12 are the only problems, elsewhere England look good. I'd want Mercer, Barbeary and Fisliau all in the squad to sort out who the starting 8 should be.
Think if anytime Mercer would've got into a squad would've been before the last World Cup. I don't think Borthwick will like his comments and forget about them (but that said he had a disagreement with Billy V and still selected him). I think Mercer is a great club player but probably looked a bit better than his true value in a big pack at Montpellier. Lastly, Dombrandt outplayed him in the Big Game at Twickenham - Borthwick does hold Olive trees out to players he's dropped when they go back to club level and improve like Dombrandt and Henry Slade did.
Good to see so many Chiefs on the list. For now I think only Slade, Roots and Feyi-Waboso have a chance of starting, but it would be great to see the others involved. My only change would be Wyatt for Hodge, who needs to become more of a team player.
Roots won't start over Cunningham South
I see Evans being in there, otherwise we've only got 1 real openside in the training squad. Then Steward absolutely has to go for me. Lots of people are writing him off as a 1 trick pony, forgetting that he's only 23 years old, he has loads of room for development and I think he has started to show a bit more in attack this year. I'd leave Hodge and Redshaw at home or take one as an "apprentice player" as they're both pretty lightweight, and take Steward and one more fullback/utility as Beard also plays wing. Others have suggested Hathaway but I like Shillcock, although that's really just preference at that point.
I think you need someone in the squad who consistently fails to convert their club form into the international arena. Someone who slides off tackles and who goes missing for large portions of the match, but who has a solid left boot, even though he rarely has the tactical nous to use it to it's best effect. Now, who fits that description?
It would be good to see James Williams in the training squad. Watching him for Bristol he seems to be able to do everything Owen Farrell does as a 12 but without the high tackles and shouting at referees.
🤣
No mention of Seb Blake of Gloucester at hooker, has been excellent, I would have in training squad in place of either Riley of Harlequins or Ogre of Bristol. Redshaw of Newcastle Falcons will be a very good player, currently missing defensive experience, I would pick Noah Heward of Bristol, covers both full back and wing, serious pace
Believe it or not I had seb Blake in my notes to mention but didn't in the end. Def one to watch
For me, I would not put Cole or Marler in this initial training squad, I like Street and I think Davidson's good - how about VRR is he back and fit yet?
For the back three, I would take a look at Josh Hathaway from Gloucester
Didnt think JVP looked any good when he had a run, porter and randall would be it, wait for mitchell and spencer. Agree williams, want some gas in the back 3 for sure. Thought ibotoye has looked good this season. I think steward is too slow and doesn't offer enough in attack but also that Borthwick will go conservative and pick him
Ibitoye has no defensive ability, one of the major reasons Quins let him go
You clearly have not watched him this season. That is an absurd comment.
Do not see the point of picking Dombrandt. He has had plenty of chances at international level and failed to take any of them. I am guessing Finn Smith is injured because he looks more assured at international level than Marcus. Maybe not for the future but Trevor Davison deserves another try, particular as he can play both sides of the scrum
Cole in the past has been a stand out player for England throughout the years but think his time is up after watching him him in the 6 nations, yes still big and strong in the scrum but apart from that think he's slowed down to much and will be easily picked off by a running forward.
5 number 8s yeah? 😂 I’d have Will Evans for Clement and Harding for Mercer. I’d also have Dan Kelly and Seb Atkinson in, we need to start looking at the next 12. Curve ball but I reckon Feyi-Waboso could slot in at 12 too. Gotta have Steward in, can’t leave him out. For the time being I’d have him and Malins as the two fullbacks in camp
I think the team you have picked is a fair pick England needed to try out new players even if they don't make the squad they get a feel for the team
Think Steward will be in the squad - we need him for a rainy day and also whenever we play the Springboks
Just my opinion , but George hendy goes on tour for me. Just something about him . And I’m a tigers fan .
I know he’s getting on in player terms, but I wonder how Olly Woodburn never got a shot at the England squad.
Josh Hathaway has been ridiculous
Your leaving out Theo Dan and Luke Cowan Dickie?
This training squad is minus the 4 teams in the premiership semi final remember
Missing Will Evans from this squad but otherwise pretty much sport on
Defo take Mercer, best all rounder 8 in England
I think you’ve mixed up kpoku and sodeke. Understandable though as they’re both top class units in the lock
I did. Annoyed with myself.
think an XV in the summer I'd like to see is:
1. Genge
2. George (c)
3. Cole
4. Itoje
5. Martin
6. CCS
7. Underhill
8. Earl
9. Mitchell
10. Ford
11. IFW
12. Lawrence
13. Slade
14. Freeman
15. Furbank
16. Langdon
17. Baxter
18. Stuart
19. Roots
20. Dombrandt
21. JVP
22. Smith
23. Hendy
Would like to see the likes of Steward, F.Smith and Daly given a go as they still have plenty to offer. Without Chessum, I'm a bit worried of our depth at Lock, I wouldn't be surprised if Ewels or Coles gets a call up. Another player who I seriously rate at 13 is Litchfield and agree with many others that Will Evans should be given a look in at least
Smith over Ford
thoughts on ollie sleightholme?
i’d love to see him in an England shirt
I'd have rodd over Marler. His play in the loose has been exceptional and Marler has been very very poor lately
No sale players in this squad as they'll be preparing for the prem semis
Wow, that group of tight-heads is incredibly weak... I pray a youngster comes from nowhere that's anywhere near the standard we need there!
Will Evans surely!!!!!
Agree Baxter,shame against about Collier.What about Thacker at hooker? Martin for sure.Cunningham South,Earl,not Mercer, Barberry,Roots.Can be exciting side but will Borthwick listen to you 😅
That’s junior kpocko ??
What has Thacker done wrong?
The argument for not picking Will Evans always seems to become very wishy washy very fast. “Just not sure he is an England player/is he ready to step up?”. Rubbish arguments, he’s the top tackler and jackaler in the prem. has been the best jackal threat by miles for 3 years now. As far as 7’s go he should be a shoe in (especially for this squad)
Yea, you may be right, just so much competition out there
Surely Beno Obano
Don't rate Murley, he seems a bit hit and miss
SB should pick younger, time to leave behind those fine veterans.
Tyrone green?
Not yet eligible
No Radwan…?!
Going to 7s I believe so no point ATM
7’s is one route for him, the other would involve him leaving Newcastle for a better team to see just how dangerous he really can be in 15s with a little front foot ball.
Toulouse vs Leinster is next weekend