Gamer hat Disco assured me tons of stuff is coming this year. Do I believe what Gamer Hat Disco said? Heck no. Until CIG proves for a few years in a row that they can hit their projections, I'll go on feeling like those jump gates to Pyro won't be operational this year like they were last year.
So way back in the day, we had a game called SWG (Star Wars Galaxies). That game had a crafting system that needed items from others. It could be biomaterial, ores, metals, or all kinds of stuff that had to be delivered to the manufacturer to complete orders. The biggest thing was the better the materials the manufacturer got, the better the product was produced, so stims, weapons, and armor from one person may be cheaper, but they were not as effective. Crafting in SWG was crazy cool, but to make the insane stuff, you needed to have the materials for it, and that economy was crazy awesome. You could order a weapon, but if the materials were not in that crafter's hands, you would have to wait till everything was in place to get your product. You could specialize in one thing and if you got the best stuff create stockpiles and sell it to all the crafters or auction house and make a killing, or be a crafter and make the things people wanted and charge whatever you wanted and place it in the trade network.
If that is the process they are looking at doing, it will change this (not game) as people say to something amazing with so many moving parts@@vorpalrobot
Yeah I remember that too; I had a small architect business, making houses and furniture. You had to get all sorts of stuff, my buddy was running farms all over the galaxy to provide the best materials you could get. Our guild had a pretty neat supply chain running with weapon and armorsmiths. Great times.
The guild I was with was all elder jedi, so we farmed bio-mats for doctors, and weapons materials for bounty hunters, crystals and pearls from Krayt for jedi weapons@@dwminiboss511
SWG had the best material gathering system ever, can remember the mad rush if some really HQ stuff appeared and everyone knew who to go to for the best ships or sabers or whatever because they had stocks of it all from the rare occurence that it did appear. Then the variance you could get from crafting the items added to it, huge difference in quality to available items for sale from what was essentially a low amount of items, an x wing is an x wing some might think, yet the difference in an x wing crafted by that shipmaker is superior to the rest.
if they implement something like "you must use a vehicle to move the cargo yourself" or even a "wait X minutes based on Y cargo you are loading" they better MEGA buff trading because even as of now its not really worth it
Cig needs to create a cargo hauling game loop, which is different than the cargo trading we have now. Cargo hauling is where you are hired to pick up a set amount of cargo at one location and haul it to another. It’s similar to the box missions but with cargo. Cargo trading is always going to favor the largest cargo haulers. Cargo hauling can accommodate every size cargo ship. Need a 2 scu high value cargo transported to a small outpost with only a small landing pad, starter ship. Maybe a 32 scu box on a long haul, easy for a medium size ship, too expensive for a large ship. Reputation can also play into it with various companies specializing in different types of delivery. Especially with the new types of cargo containers coming out.
Oh yo that is a great idea and then criminals can hire you to be a Mule and move drugs and stuff but maybe the path is dangerous or something so it pays more but is illegal
@@teddypicker8799 yes the game is small. Maybe if they added like 2 or 3 other plants into Stanton. It could work very well or even just bringing resources from one place to another. It doesn’t pay a lot but good enough for a good profit and to repair and re fuel
In an. NPC economy, there is not a single game where this "loop" provides any actual value yo anyone other than yourself. That, inherently, conflicts with the purpose of delivering cargo. Lets stop having deep convos about it It's a waste of everyone's time.
@@lennoxdantes what do you mean? That’s literally cargo running… it just adds a little different start up. It’s a mission instead of buying and selling. Not to mention the game would need to explains more then 4 plants to be able to add that mechanic to where you bring materials somewhere and they build a building. Not to mention not every material needs to be seen. This company could need cold to make ships parts. Ect…
I think small outposts will be for small ship trade where you spend 5 minutes with your doors open instead of 20. It's kinda weird that those tiny Outposts and settlements have the capacity to fill even one C2. Large ship hauling will be done with the Distribution centers, which offer hangars.
That sort of has been CIG's plan for a long time. I think if you go to outposts with a larger ship trying to take larger loads, then you run the greater risk of piracy during your loading\unloading. UGFs will likely become the locations where larger craft will have more protection and less likelihood of piracy.
There is something beautiful about large ships landing on ground pads, but it’s time to introduce a large fuel cost for large ships to exit planetary gravity, especially when fully loaded. Utilise the outstanding physics system in the game to reduce the arcadey ping pong dumbed down stats on most ships.
I think there is way to bring together what he said and what you said. You should be able to "offload your cargo to the cargo deck". This could mean having an inventory for your cargo at, say, Everus for example. Maybe you pay a cargo storage fee or something. You don't have to sell it to that station -- you can just store the cargo there and still own it. This opens up a few options. From the cargo deck you look at prices at various locations for your cargo and create sale contracts which result in payment to you and a hauler (NPC or player) once the hauler successfully comes to Everus, picks up your cargo, and delivers it to the sale destination to complete the contract. You then give a rating to the hauler. Should be able to set minimum rating requirements for your contract. Also probably buy insurance. Think selling smaller amounts of derelict outpost RMC to various TDDs over time without having to land and wait for demand at a particular TDD. Alternatively you can offer to sell part or all your cargo at Everus to haulers or other traders by creating a well priced listing in the cargo deck. Think creating a stash of SLAM, Widow, Maze, etc, at open minded CRU stations and leave a bit of room for profit for your buyers. Third option would be for you to get in a cargo ship, load up with some or all of your cargo when you feel like it, and go sell or move it yourself.
From what I understood, he makes a distinction between trading where you could trade with station but sell to company on the planets, and moving cargo as a contract for company where instead of having to move it from on inventory to the other you move stuff from a locations to the other. If I understood correctly, I really like it.that would make small mission that are important mostly be done behind the scene but still have some be given to player who wants to do it.
Small cargo jobs and replace cargo pads with cargo hangers is needed. to make things work like elite dangerous all pads are lift elevators. You need to be able to buy and sell either from the ship or inside the hanger.
Mining location -> Cat/C2 -> Port -> Hull C -> refining station -> Hull C -> Port -> Cat/C2 -> planet locations. First time really thinking about the "cargo loop". crazy to actually thing about this, and to think that was super simple. 🤯
THERE'S A HUGE PROBLEM WITH CARGO!!! I have a full Hull C of Hephaestinite and can't even sell because every time I enter the area to off load my cargo it goes through this loop of telling me: "Alright, starting to transfer your cargo now." to "Got a problem with your cargo check your position and that the zone is clear so we can start transferring your cargo." and then repeats. I'm glad i didn't waste real money on that cost of credit machine that is the state of the current Hull C cargo loop.
We need a small intro missions like package delivery, since the 100i has 2 scu.... replacing a package delivery with 2 scu cargo delivery is basically still a package missions but now requires a multitool with tractor beam to do the delivery. And we need something ahead of that so people can earn the credits to buy a tractor beam, so i don't think package delivery missions are going anywhere.
The outpost that you're selling/buying to is linked to the cargo station is what he said, if that was the case, there would be no need to take a smaller ship to the outpost or automated shuttle, you could simply just sell it from a computer at the station. If it went that big haulers sold to stations and then there were separate contracts to take goods from the station to the outpost, you have contracts for large and small freight in one. The automated shuttle idea gets rid of the need for smaller transport jobs, newer players would favour these smaller transport missions as they're all around one area, more advanced players are out there bringing those goods, that idea gives a lot for folk to do.
Another little thing about the cargo elevators is that, how will you use a hangar, and elevator to manually load a Hull series ship? In my head you need an enormous hangar, where you can dock it, with multiple levels of loading platforms. Right now in videos they only show ships that has cargo ramps when they show hangars and elevators. While CIG holds up the Hull Series as the premiere haulers. Take this into account when we speak about loading, and unloading out in the open.
I think that just adds to the ship, it has the most capacity yes, but its VERY vulnerable, so it only makes sense to trade between very lawfull areas were loading and unloading in the open is safe.
~15:30: He's dead wrong about small outposts creating an opportunity for small traders. Remember, it's driven by quanta which is worldwide. So a million players and 9 million NPCs... the outpost needs to support far more than one player... and one player in a large ship is indistinguishable from several players in small ships. So you *can't* do it, and even trying will harm everyone (as a slight uptick in players trying that run, assuming it was balanced before, will make it "wait and refresh" at the terminal.
We sort of have the systems for what you re talking about with the farm and factory. What if it functioned similar to mining and refining? You could sell the raw food for processing, and that process takes time. However rather than limiting it to the player who dropped it off, the processed food could then be picked up from a universal storage and taken to an outpost or city. Later down the road you could add functionality for orgs to buy the different pieces if the logistics chain to keep hauling in house.
I think the relevance of ships with less cargo will be based off turnaround time. I believe this has been hinted at with the Hull-series. Having worked at FedEx Express and Currently at Amazon Air it would be similar to an how this works irl. Based off the CIG's classifications Heavy Freight = Aircraft/Ships between ports (major ports in game), Medium Freight = tractor trailers/box trucks between ports and delivery stations (major cities), then Light Freight = box trucks/delivery vans between the delivery stations and the final location (outpost and specific locations in the cities basically similar to box missions but with commodities instead); though there are a few ships that overlap the routes. There may also be a way to incorporate time sensitive missions that would replicate on demand freight operations, like say a factory making Greycats needs a specific commodity to get production back online.
whats also Important is, that once a comodity is traded, then the price and quantity to deliver is locked at that. So when you arrive at the drop off place, you are sure that the place will take your cargo and pay what you anticipated
What he was saying about decoupling, was you could unload commodities first, which puts them into your "account" at the city's warehouse. Then travel to the trading center and sell the commodity from your account in the city's warehouse, not off of your ship.
Open space outposts would be a solution for small cargo ships. Manual loading of high-value goods in the open would mean you naturally can't realistically load large ship with for example drugs or other high-value goods.
in Elite you could do huge wing (party) procurement and delivery missions. Those were fun. in those large quantities procurement was tricky and delivery was dangerous. You needed to move huge loads for a mission giver who wouldn't care how you handled it. Although possible to do solo to some extent, it would be very advantageous to do it in a wing (party)
Outposts are currently small and compact. If they added a large area of tarmac for cargo loading and unloading, I think that would be the easiest way to resolve this issue. By large area, I'm referring to something the size of a football field or bigger.
I think the Hull C cargo hauling needs an overhaul. It should be docked when you load and unload. The whole flying to a box to load and unload not only is unnecessarily tedious, and it has some major bugs right now. With CIG trying to physicalize cargo, having to fly into a box is always going to be an issue for loading. Better to have a docking port where the ship is in a fixed position, it would also allow the player to visit the shops, get some e food and drink, all while the ship is being loaded. If you think about cargo ships today they are loaded at the docks, Not in the middle of the bay.
at each landing zone we need warehouses connected to the landing pads. one at each side of the pad with forklifts unloading our ships with turrets on top of the warehouse.
IMO small box delivery missions are not going away. If anything there will be more. I think when all is said and done ... there will be pizza delivery missions. Because, you have to start somewhere.
Mike, the truck driver would be more of the in-system from hub to planet. The Trader is buying and selling items that then need to be shipped by a "hauler" like type C/D/E for that bulk shipping.
We need outposts that are put in places that only small ships can get in/out of. Like a place built into the side of a mountain that only has room for a small hanger, and then the price per SCU is higher there to make up the difference. I'm thinking the real world scenario here of like places that only have a 2000 ft runway that you can't physically get a 747 loaded with cargo in and out of, and you have to use smaller aircraft like Cessnas and Barrons.
Prospector mining with the 48scu bags from the mole is still the only solid and lucrative gameplay loop that isn’t a cheat code like the reclaimed or ert cargo
I felt that cargo depots/stations/whatever be distribution centers for Hull ships to move mass amounts of products, materials, etc..., like container, tanker ships or trains, drop off and/or pick up items/units to other distribution centers, including in other systems? Than you have ships like a C2, Caterpillar, etc... to be the semi-trucks, moving items/units to or from the distribution center to the city and the cutter, cutlass, Freelancer, etc... are the delivery trucks going from the city, distribution center or outpost to an outpost? The Pieces, Titan and similar craft are like FedEx, UPS trucks doing P&D jobs? The ARGO-Cargo and RAFT move items/units between Hull ships. Obviously the various jobs can be done by ships other than what I've indicated, but I'm sure you get the gist of my thinking? ;-)
The ship size has to be put into the equation for what you want to do... Like the 3 scu Aurora that you mentioned, or the Avenger would be main city to small planetary outpost. But something larger like the c1's and freelancers would be planet to space station. While even larger would-be planet to planet and the biggest ships would be between systems. The other part of the that equation would be how long does it take to get from point to point. Because if a hauler isn't moving it's not making money just like modern transport (farther distance equals more money on the mission board). After that then how long between loading and unloading. Is it a secure system or a pirate system? The smaller ships are always going to be faster and easier but due to the short trips they won't make as much money. So now you can see the natural progression of where hauler starts and finishes. Not to mention where the player or pilot wants to be or stay. Maybe staying in a system with a c1 planet to station or planet to moon in a secure system is the safest and best spot to be but risk vs reward taking a cargo mission into somewhere like pyro for example could multiply that pay out exponentially.
Small cargo ships can transport direct to seller to reduce shipping overhead. Large ships have to ship in large amounts to overcome the overhead costs. Small ships for cargo will still be needed due to if you need to sell something that has special conditions to be safely transported (G-limits, refrigeration……) large cargo ships should tend to ship generic bulk goods.
I think one of the other things cargo hauling is going to need is other star systems. Such that you can only get certain materials and goods from other systems. I think that's what ships like the larger Hull series are designed for, multi-system distance runs. Also, I think what you want, and I agree with, cargo runs that make sense, such as running ore from the mines to the industries are planned and will happen when we get the larger UGF's they're working on now.
using the ports as commodity exchanges would probably be best case scenario tbh. hopefully any price differences selling to the planetary TDD would mostly even out when factoring time spent docked and moving cargo to and from. maybe still allowing for smaller (i.e. Hull A, Caterpillar, etc.) cargo vehicles to make some extra profit bypassing the port. price going port to planets being marginally different for low risk commodity trading. the it's true though, freight hauling could easily replace courier type contracts. commodity trading and freight are different and "freight" could be any "Point A->B" deliveries using 1/8 to 32SCU shipping containers. it's just a matter of generating a pick up anywhere i.e. city Hab, city business, port, outpost, etc. with an appropriate container, and a plausible destination. could basically base levels off of container size and value of contents. could be good beginner and Zero To Hero type missions to deliver Amazon packages and Uber from the food courts.
Truckers don't even decide, they have brokers/dispatch for that. Now truckers use apps to match their trailer type to a cargo job. Especially for owner operators. Its very video game like, just copy that. Owner operators use brokers. Contact drivers us a company dispatcher. They use their own or company equipment.
My running theory is that Tony Z and team got dragged over to Sq42 to help polish it up. Helps that the servers couldn't handle quanta right now anyways. Maybe by year's end we'll see the first hints of the "real" economy.
i think the hauling missions will need to be ship specific, like this mission requires a light fast moving ship, or a large cargo capacity or something to that effect, because say you had a mission that was 3 scu of cargo for a aurora and you want it to be worth the time so you make it pay well, whats stopping someone from piggybacking multiple of those missions or hauling larger quantities of that commodity? if large ships can pick up large quantities of a very valuable commodity than itll just break the market
I’m hoping that with basebuliding you’ll be able to sell directly from your outpost. That way, you could sell your produced goods (weaponry, commodities etc) without needing a large cargo ship to ferry them. Likewise, it would provide traders with further opportunity to buy low, sell high by buying from player outposts at a discounted rate
@@harleyurquhart292 Dont you think that this is more in line with the idea of a player driven economy? players buying off eachother with mutual benefit
If I was going to give a very low level run down of things then Id argue that cargo hauling and commodity trading would be different things. I think cargo hauling should be hauling other peoples goods, with commodity trading being the buying, selling, and organisation of transport. There would of course be some middle ground in there of independent "traders" who look at the market and then buy, transport and sell their own goods (kind of ehat we call cargo at the moment). In terms of the economy itself I think the biggest let down is that it's not lore based. Freelancer did this excellently. Each station had a reason for existing, when you spoke with NPCs what they said would maatch with the high/low prices of goods going to and from each location. This doesn't really exist in Star Citizen. I landed on a station in SC that had a refinery deck, sold medical supplies and crystals or minerals or something. I mean Ive heard of healing crystals, but why would a station with a refinery be selling medical supplies and not refined metals etc?
Cargo missions are like your Walmart truck bringing stock to the stores. Whereas delivery missions are like your door dash driver. I don't see them in the same category or think cargo replaces delivery missions.
For cargo hauling, unless you are running illegal trade, I don't think any commodity is worth it in a ship that can carry anything less than 150 SCU. The time, effort, risk do not equal the reward possible at smaller quantities.
I think it would be amazing when locations need the proper resources before they can produce their commodities, it'll give you a reason to make a loop (bring resources to point A a couple of times so you can take a more profitable route from A to B a little later)
Current outposts do not make any sense for trading anyway (they don't have any space to store anything) I think it would make sense for the new big locations to take over that role and they could have hangars.
Moving cargo from everywhere to everywhere and for everyone and all items from components to ground vehicles' and all tradable commodities and mining material and every item you could use in game ,that means for settlments,space stations and anything for refineries or any facility that needs goods, great topic BTW,thank you.
This just made me think. If a Hull C is like a big cargo ship An A2 is like an 18 weeler And say a Freelancer is like a box truck Then a Station is like a port A city is like.. A city AND Your own base is like your house. So imagine if you could place a beacon/mission requesting/buying a certain type of resource. Like 2 SCU of food, and then a player can make a decent amount of money just moving that from the nearest city to your base, i think that would be really cool, and since we already have medical beacons, it feels pretty possible to add.
All talk of "dynamic economy" doesnt mean anything in an enviroment of 9:1 of NPC to player. The players will not make any significant dent into the NPC run economy.
Videos like 'the cargo problem' are simply an offshoot of the fact that development of Star Citizen is agonizingly and mind-numbingly slow and people need to talk about something. We can't have a 'cargo problem' when we have a single system and a half-baked economy. We won't know if there is a cargo problem until there is an economy driven by more than spreadsheets and there is more than a single system in which to run cargo. Also, I do think that deliveries will stay around as the entry intro to hauling for new players. It's a great way to become familiar with travel and locations.
Who the hell tells you that those small outposts stay the way they are, or that they don't get instanced hangars replacing the open pads to integrade a cargo elevator? What was it with that thing up there and using it? 😂 Current outposts are legacy placeholder stuff that is terribly outdated. It gets replaced anyway.
I really hope that Livestock isn't a thing that exists in a large scale in the future because I'd hope we have more advanced and efficient ways of creating protein like in vitro meat, etc. I'm sure there will be a luxury market for "real meat" but it would a certain type of boutique luxury good on a much smaller scale. But if they do implement livestock then you best bet I'm starting a Vegan Pirate gang to liberate all of the animals :P
2 minute timer? Why not add parking fee? I mean if you know you need longer time, then pay for parking space then lol! So make short parking free but if you need to take longer then it should be paid. If you want really REALLY great cargo/manufacture game system look at game called Prosperous Universe. It's a just a spreadsheet part of space game but this is the exact economy backend that if put into some real 3D game not just spreadsheets it would be the best game ever. I hope Star Citizen will get there. Both traders that trade from terminals and actual haulers that move goods is probably the best thing there is. In prosperous universe manufacturing and production is really well done you have some stock that can last you few days and if you mess up and forget to get something you put order and get some nice extra premium or fly it on your own ship. Unless you are big fish you will always fly your own stuff but later on you need to hire small new players because you can't hall everything yourself and that create really great gameplay for smaller players who like to play small and chill style vs tycoon who wants to make all the money and create tons of jobs for all the small casual players. Works great IMO.
I think they've begun realising they have spent more than 10 years but still need to build the industrial side of the game comparable to eve, factorio, satisfactory or foxhole 😂
Your wrong Mike, he saying you dont go downtown (TDD) to sell ur cargo when ur parked at the port. Its not like this IRL at all so it doesn't need to be this way in the game. Where u drop off should be the same place u sell/transfer, no need to take a ride to Downtown to offload ur cargo. Its the job of the drop off location take in the cargo electronically and to physically unload it.
I believe it’ll be really cool if we can run our own company say I have a Hull C, C2, Connie Taurus I should be able to hire NPC’s to fly and trade using those ships without guidance. That way I can sit on my 400i, 600i and let the money roll in 😂….right?
boxes are miniture crates, miniture crates are big crates, crates are smaller containers, small containers are same as big containers. all this it has "x" inside and a box is stupid. every box should be as a sadal bag, with a digital lable on it for what is inside the box, and everything from fuel, to liquids, to ammo, armors, component parts, to vechiles, or even tinny ships should all be able to fit inside varous boxes. so boxes should never go away. and the digital lable should be what the terminals scan for deposits with various stations. and when a deposit station recieves box with x size, those items should instantaneously be transferred to its localized vending items. as a transfer of ownerships. and the ai needs to react with localized storage components. this is the key element that is missing. players have storages but the ai does not. if you sell tons of things to the AI and the AI store house is filled. the AI should not be able to receive additional items. where after you make the deposit. you should get your box back empty. this is the next element that is missing between common trade. a package delivery as mailing items the box is transferable with the items. and doing deliveries will aid with ai storage growth, but doing ai deliveries will also cause the ai storage to shrink from one location to the other. these basic elements need to be True before the progression of adaptive economy. then after you have deliveries, and actual item deposits for transfers of goods and not boxes. then you can set up ai pirate locations for black market goods. then they could even add expensive boxes that are shilded from scanning with hacked digital readers. so the box can be opened and store 1 thing, but the components actually put inside the box is something else entirely. adding to the hacking and smuggling loops which are near non-existant. as that is crucial tech to forward those modalities of game loops also. where if you deposite a hacked box, and sell x items, but actually sell idk miscellaneous dust as if it were hydonite? then the local ai store is in a currency deficit and item deficit. which then effects market rates, and causes a warrant for arrest to go out also affecting bounty play by malacious transactions and not just negitive player combats. also adding to the bounty loop game play. it starts with packages, builds up to large containers storing components and ships, then builds even further with inventory readers that are hackable, and having the proper ai scripts to exchange goods and be bluffed on the sale of wrongly listed items. that is how it should be.
In Star Citizen if I hire anyone in my reclaimer it is beneficial to them not to me, they are trying to enforce into the game the current stage of capitalism where it's somehow OK to hire someone and give them 1% or 2% of their labour value as salary and that's the problem.
I do think we need to make more (what we make now then when this game goes live) money right now as this is an alpha and we will get all aUEC wiped all the time. Once there is longer term progression ie. keeping aUEC then we can push the price per contract down.
All that is great, but when you spend hours and millions getting the cargo, only for the servers to shit the bed, as they've done for YEARS, and you log back into a bed, with a 30 min wait time, your money still gone, and you have to pay a fee to get your ship back.. that, that is the bane of all star citizen gameplay.
ship defense systems like personell turrets at top of cargo ship or somthing like that. boom only ones authorised to enter ship aka crew and npc crew and those given permission by the captain. any one else gets turned swish cheese
Is there something in SC that have no problem😅 big patch and fix patch dropped but elevators in bunker missions 50% of the time not working😮 Drug destroying mission often have no drugs or no guards, SoO still often cant be completed do to missing target lt or shuttle not coming, back pack can disappear during any mission for no obvious reason😂😢
I want to be able to set a contract myself if i want to spec my ship but don't want to fly around picking everything up i can give someone X amount for their time and do it for me would be good for newbs to learn systems planets and where stuff is.
I dont understand why they dont just replicate a real economy, mining outposts etc buy gems from miners, cargo haulers buy them cheap and sell the at a higher rate at cities etc. if no one sells to a location the prices go up, and make the prices immediately searchable.
Because its hard to do, its what they are trying do with quanta, but they also need to simulate transport times, booms, depressions etc. Etc. Its a lot more complex than most people think, especially when you have to think about brain dead players fitting into it too 🤣
No hate to Drake Cutter enthusiasts but I just can’t wrap my head around it. That thing is so damn ugly. But fly the ship u love and don’t let my confusion dampen ur joy 🫡
Pls stop calling Star Citizen a Sandbox. This is NOT a sandbox. Not even a little bit. Its a full blown themepark. Themparks have community events and player housing.
I don't think package delivery isn't going anywhere. You need something that fits in an Aurora and a gameplay play loop that basically teaches new players how to land and take off while giving tour of pretty looking moon tech. I suspect cargo missions will require Cutty Black or bigger size ships and you won't be able to do them in a starter. I understand how they balance the Hull C and up. They literally can't buy or sell from the same locations as everyone else. But right now how you balance a C2 and a Cutlas just seem to be quantity limits but nothing stops the C2 from filling it's first 46 cargo with drugs or whatever and then filling the rest with something that is supposed to be moved a bit more in bulk. So it just random first come first server for the more limited quantity stuff and if you are flying a medium ship there's a good chance there is nothing decent for you to carry. ...One thing that may help is segregating where you buy and sell from based on the quantities you are hulling, so the large ships have to go out of their way and it doesn't make much sense to pick up the high value low quantity items that should be intended for smaller runs. Obviously a C2 load still has to make more profit than a Cutty or C1 (and the Hull C more than the C2) but they could be balanced out a little more this way.
I feel they need to make it to where you can either make your own shipping company or work for a npc shipping company the corporations would then give contracts through a player owned or npc owned shipping company this would open different routes to shipping like a beginning route to shipping could be npc shipping company’s you can sign up for they would then loan you a company owned small cargo ship and that would open shipping contracts you could do then once you save enough money to get your own ship for cargo hauling you can either start and name your own company or you can work for another player owned company if you start your own company you would obviously have to pay a base fee to get the company up and running and ready to do missions on the other hand working for another players shipping company would be a bit different you would sign up to work for that corporation you would need your own ship to do the cargo missions and you would get cargo missions specifically set to the ship you signed up with (insuring you can pick up everything needed in one run) the player owned company would pay for part of the items picked up the player dying the cargo run would pay the remaining cost of the pick up fee for the materials take it to where it needs to go and make a percentage of the profits that would raise or lower depending on hoe much of the material was paid for (ex: i sign up to do a cargo mission for a player owned company lets say thr price of the full csrgo run is 100k creds if the player doing thr flying only wants to pay 10% of the run thrn they eill get there money back upon completion plus roughly 8% profit of the run (couldnt be the full 10% as the player owned company would be tsking much greater risk then the pilot credit wise of course) the percentage of what the pilot makes would go up or down depending on the danger of the system or planet that the pick up and drop off areas are in obviously higher risk = more money for the company and pilot) the only way this would work is to incorporate real-estate like the buyijg and selling of property's and company's as well as an actual banking system wherr you csn set up a personal bank account as well as compsny owned bank accounts i understsnd this may seem like too much to most and most would be fine with just being able to select a contract and go but the possibilities here are endless and the more indepth we make these things the nore realistic and rewarding the game feels since i started this game ive wanted to see a truly open world abke to do whatever you wanted endless possibilities ive wanted to stsrt either a shipping company or a mining company where i could send out contracts to players as a player having people mine and transport and refine and sell like a well oiled assembly line and if all of that becomes possible imagine the endless possibilities abke to mske our own player owned mercenary groups pirate groups hell you could even create a rscing company whos only goal is to go crsck the best times sround thegalexy at multiple race tracks …. i really hope this is the area that the gsme is going i understsnd it would take an enormous amount of work making banking possible as well as all the other small things that would go into it but if stsr citizen could pull off something like this it would be the best game around fof the next 50 years untill they could put is in the game id never touch any other game star citizen gods if your listening we beg you make this game as good as we pray for fuck i reslly hope these things are coming i want to own a shipping business i want to be able to give contracts to people to do a cargo run and i wsnt to be able to hire a player owned mercenary company to protect my company's ships while doing there runs which would enturn feed the economy let us do the work let us own the company's let us be one with the economy instead of it being something we look at from afar letting the economy decide what missions we do today because it pays more no give us something we can grow give us something to strive for instead of nice ships armor and a fat wallet give us something we can be apart of idk about anyone else but this is all I hope for a new system is cool new ships is alright new missions would be cool but being able to own and operate being able to change our prices to undercut and overhead the competition allowing us to control payout percentages to rival other corporations pay these things will make a truly amazing game like no one has seen before i doubt anyone will read this whole thing with all the typos and such but I don’t care I just wanted to say this is what I hope for personally and I think detailed things like this if it is possible to bring into the game would make it the most amazing game ever made and I hope for the day it comes true
Gamer hat Disco assured me tons of stuff is coming this year. Do I believe what Gamer Hat Disco said? Heck no. Until CIG proves for a few years in a row that they can hit their projections, I'll go on feeling like those jump gates to Pyro won't be operational this year like they were last year.
So way back in the day, we had a game called SWG (Star Wars Galaxies). That game had a crafting system that needed items from others. It could be biomaterial, ores, metals, or all kinds of stuff that had to be delivered to the manufacturer to complete orders. The biggest thing was the better the materials the manufacturer got, the better the product was produced, so stims, weapons, and armor from one person may be cheaper, but they were not as effective. Crafting in SWG was crazy cool, but to make the insane stuff, you needed to have the materials for it, and that economy was crazy awesome. You could order a weapon, but if the materials were not in that crafter's hands, you would have to wait till everything was in place to get your product. You could specialize in one thing and if you got the best stuff create stockpiles and sell it to all the crafters or auction house and make a killing, or be a crafter and make the things people wanted and charge whatever you wanted and place it in the trade network.
That's more or less the exact plan for Star Citizen. Some of the SWG devs are even at CIG now! At least that's what I've heard.
If that is the process they are looking at doing, it will change this (not game) as people say to something amazing with so many moving parts@@vorpalrobot
Yeah I remember that too; I had a small architect business, making houses and furniture.
You had to get all sorts of stuff, my buddy was running farms all over the galaxy to provide the best materials you could get.
Our guild had a pretty neat supply chain running with weapon and armorsmiths. Great times.
The guild I was with was all elder jedi, so we farmed bio-mats for doctors, and weapons materials for bounty hunters, crystals and pearls from Krayt for jedi weapons@@dwminiboss511
SWG had the best material gathering system ever, can remember the mad rush if some really HQ stuff appeared and everyone knew who to go to for the best ships or sabers or whatever because they had stocks of it all from the rare occurence that it did appear. Then the variance you could get from crafting the items added to it, huge difference in quality to available items for sale from what was essentially a low amount of items, an x wing is an x wing some might think, yet the difference in an x wing crafted by that shipmaker is superior to the rest.
if they implement something like "you must use a vehicle to move the cargo yourself" or even a "wait X minutes based on Y cargo you are loading" they better MEGA buff trading because even as of now its not really worth it
Cig needs to create a cargo hauling game loop, which is different than the cargo trading we have now. Cargo hauling is where you are hired to pick up a set amount of cargo at one location and haul it to another. It’s similar to the box missions but with cargo. Cargo trading is always going to favor the largest cargo haulers. Cargo hauling can accommodate every size cargo ship. Need a 2 scu high value cargo transported to a small outpost with only a small landing pad, starter ship. Maybe a 32 scu box on a long haul, easy for a medium size ship, too expensive for a large ship. Reputation can also play into it with various companies specializing in different types of delivery. Especially with the new types of cargo containers coming out.
Oh yo that is a great idea and then criminals can hire you to be a Mule and move drugs and stuff but maybe the path is dangerous or something so it pays more but is illegal
Game is too small atm for this. We can get anywhere in stanton in 5 minutes. They need to start pumping out lots of copy/paste solar systems
@@teddypicker8799 yes the game is small. Maybe if they added like 2 or 3 other plants into Stanton. It could work very well or even just bringing resources from one place to another. It doesn’t pay a lot but good enough for a good profit and to repair and re fuel
In an. NPC economy, there is not a single game where this "loop" provides any actual value yo anyone other than yourself. That, inherently, conflicts with the purpose of delivering cargo.
Lets stop having deep convos about it
It's a waste of everyone's time.
@@lennoxdantes what do you mean? That’s literally cargo running… it just adds a little different start up. It’s a mission instead of buying and selling. Not to mention the game would need to explains more then 4 plants to be able to add that mechanic to where you bring materials somewhere and they build a building. Not to mention not every material needs to be seen. This company could need cold to make ships parts. Ect…
I think small outposts will be for small ship trade where you spend 5 minutes with your doors open instead of 20.
It's kinda weird that those tiny Outposts and settlements have the capacity to fill even one C2.
Large ship hauling will be done with the Distribution centers, which offer hangars.
That sort of has been CIG's plan for a long time. I think if you go to outposts with a larger ship trying to take larger loads, then you run the greater risk of piracy during your loading\unloading. UGFs will likely become the locations where larger craft will have more protection and less likelihood of piracy.
Already you can’t use Hull -C with ground pads when loaded.
There is something beautiful about large ships landing on ground pads, but it’s time to introduce a large fuel cost for large ships to exit planetary gravity, especially when fully loaded. Utilise the outstanding physics system in the game to reduce the arcadey ping pong dumbed down stats on most ships.
I think there is way to bring together what he said and what you said. You should be able to "offload your cargo to the cargo deck". This could mean having an inventory for your cargo at, say, Everus for example. Maybe you pay a cargo storage fee or something. You don't have to sell it to that station -- you can just store the cargo there and still own it. This opens up a few options.
From the cargo deck you look at prices at various locations for your cargo and create sale contracts which result in payment to you and a hauler (NPC or player) once the hauler successfully comes to Everus, picks up your cargo, and delivers it to the sale destination to complete the contract. You then give a rating to the hauler. Should be able to set minimum rating requirements for your contract. Also probably buy insurance. Think selling smaller amounts of derelict outpost RMC to various TDDs over time without having to land and wait for demand at a particular TDD.
Alternatively you can offer to sell part or all your cargo at Everus to haulers or other traders by creating a well priced listing in the cargo deck. Think creating a stash of SLAM, Widow, Maze, etc, at open minded CRU stations and leave a bit of room for profit for your buyers.
Third option would be for you to get in a cargo ship, load up with some or all of your cargo when you feel like it, and go sell or move it yourself.
From what I understood, he makes a distinction between trading where you could trade with station but sell to company on the planets, and moving cargo as a contract for company where instead of having to move it from on inventory to the other you move stuff from a locations to the other.
If I understood correctly, I really like it.that would make small mission that are important mostly be done behind the scene but still have some be given to player who wants to do it.
Small cargo jobs and replace cargo pads with cargo hangers is needed. to make things work like elite dangerous all pads are lift elevators. You need to be able to buy and sell either from the ship or inside the hanger.
Mining location -> Cat/C2 -> Port -> Hull C -> refining station -> Hull C -> Port -> Cat/C2 -> planet locations. First time really thinking about the "cargo loop". crazy to actually thing about this, and to think that was super simple. 🤯
THERE'S A HUGE PROBLEM WITH CARGO!!! I have a full Hull C of Hephaestinite and can't even sell because every time I enter the area to off load my cargo it goes through this loop of telling me: "Alright, starting to transfer your cargo now." to "Got a problem with your cargo check your position and that the zone is clear so we can start transferring your cargo." and then repeats. I'm glad i didn't waste real money on that cost of credit machine that is the state of the current Hull C cargo loop.
CIG please make a large cargo expanded cutter. Like they did with the Freelancer Max. Cutter is very well made, ‘Cutter Max’.
We need a small intro missions like package delivery, since the 100i has 2 scu.... replacing a package delivery with 2 scu cargo delivery is basically still a package missions but now requires a multitool with tractor beam to do the delivery. And we need something ahead of that so people can earn the credits to buy a tractor beam, so i don't think package delivery missions are going anywhere.
The outpost that you're selling/buying to is linked to the cargo station is what he said, if that was the case, there would be no need to take a smaller ship to the outpost or automated shuttle, you could simply just sell it from a computer at the station. If it went that big haulers sold to stations and then there were separate contracts to take goods from the station to the outpost, you have contracts for large and small freight in one. The automated shuttle idea gets rid of the need for smaller transport jobs, newer players would favour these smaller transport missions as they're all around one area, more advanced players are out there bringing those goods, that idea gives a lot for folk to do.
Another little thing about the cargo elevators is that, how will you use a hangar, and elevator to manually load a Hull series ship?
In my head you need an enormous hangar, where you can dock it, with multiple levels of loading platforms. Right now in videos they only show ships that has cargo ramps when they show hangars and elevators.
While CIG holds up the Hull Series as the premiere haulers. Take this into account when we speak about loading, and unloading out in the open.
I think that just adds to the ship, it has the most capacity yes, but its VERY vulnerable, so it only makes sense to trade between very lawfull areas were loading and unloading in the open is safe.
~15:30: He's dead wrong about small outposts creating an opportunity for small traders. Remember, it's driven by quanta which is worldwide. So a million players and 9 million NPCs... the outpost needs to support far more than one player... and one player in a large ship is indistinguishable from several players in small ships. So you *can't* do it, and even trying will harm everyone (as a slight uptick in players trying that run, assuming it was balanced before, will make it "wait and refresh" at the terminal.
We sort of have the systems for what you re talking about with the farm and factory. What if it functioned similar to mining and refining? You could sell the raw food for processing, and that process takes time. However rather than limiting it to the player who dropped it off, the processed food could then be picked up from a universal storage and taken to an outpost or city.
Later down the road you could add functionality for orgs to buy the different pieces if the logistics chain to keep hauling in house.
I think the relevance of ships with less cargo will be based off turnaround time. I believe this has been hinted at with the Hull-series. Having worked at FedEx Express and Currently at Amazon Air it would be similar to an how this works irl. Based off the CIG's classifications Heavy Freight = Aircraft/Ships between ports (major ports in game), Medium Freight = tractor trailers/box trucks between ports and delivery stations (major cities), then Light Freight = box trucks/delivery vans between the delivery stations and the final location (outpost and specific locations in the cities basically similar to box missions but with commodities instead); though there are a few ships that overlap the routes. There may also be a way to incorporate time sensitive missions that would replicate on demand freight operations, like say a factory making Greycats needs a specific commodity to get production back online.
whats also Important is, that once a comodity is traded, then the price and quantity to deliver is locked at that. So when you arrive at the drop off place, you are sure that the place will take your cargo and pay what you anticipated
What he was saying about decoupling, was you could unload commodities first, which puts them into your "account" at the city's warehouse. Then travel to the trading center and sell the commodity from your account in the city's warehouse, not off of your ship.
100% and i think @saltemike misunderstood it completely
Open space outposts would be a solution for small cargo ships. Manual loading of high-value goods in the open would mean you naturally can't realistically load large ship with for example drugs or other high-value goods.
in Elite you could do huge wing (party) procurement and delivery missions. Those were fun. in those large quantities procurement was tricky and delivery was dangerous. You needed to move huge loads for a mission giver who wouldn't care how you handled it. Although possible to do solo to some extent, it would be very advantageous to do it in a wing (party)
The third sneeze is always so sneaky.
"Oh, good. It's over."
*smirks in sneeze* OH NO IT'S NOT!
Outposts are currently small and compact. If they added a large area of tarmac for cargo loading and unloading, I think that would be the easiest way to resolve this issue. By large area, I'm referring to something the size of a football field or bigger.
PVP is a whole other issue in this kind of situation. Could someone just stroll up and start tractor beaming your pile of stuff?
Or they could add hangars and tell you to go get your stuff out of such and such hangar.
I think the Hull C cargo hauling needs an overhaul. It should be docked when you load and unload. The whole flying to a box to load and unload not only is unnecessarily tedious, and it has some major bugs right now. With CIG trying to physicalize cargo, having to fly into a box is always going to be an issue for loading. Better to have a docking port where the ship is in a fixed position, it would also allow the player to visit the shops, get some e food and drink, all while the ship is being loaded. If you think about cargo ships today they are loaded at the docks, Not in the middle of the bay.
They already said this box is a temporary solution until they are ready to provide a better way to load/unload
at each landing zone we need warehouses connected to the landing pads. one at each side of the pad with forklifts unloading our ships with turrets on top of the warehouse.
so they went from the Hull-A straight to the Hull-C. What happened to the Hull-B?
IMO small box delivery missions are not going away. If anything there will be more.
I think when all is said and done ... there will be pizza delivery missions.
Because, you have to start somewhere.
Mike, the truck driver would be more of the in-system from hub to planet. The Trader is buying and selling items that then need to be shipped by a "hauler" like type C/D/E for that bulk shipping.
We need outposts that are put in places that only small ships can get in/out of. Like a place built into the side of a mountain that only has room for a small hanger, and then the price per SCU is higher there to make up the difference. I'm thinking the real world scenario here of like places that only have a 2000 ft runway that you can't physically get a 747 loaded with cargo in and out of, and you have to use smaller aircraft like Cessnas and Barrons.
Prospector mining with the 48scu bags from the mole is still the only solid and lucrative gameplay loop that isn’t a cheat code like the reclaimed or ert cargo
I felt that cargo depots/stations/whatever be distribution centers for Hull ships to move mass amounts of products, materials, etc..., like container, tanker ships or trains, drop off and/or pick up items/units to other distribution centers, including in other systems?
Than you have ships like a C2, Caterpillar, etc... to be the semi-trucks, moving items/units to or from the distribution center to the city and the cutter, cutlass, Freelancer, etc... are the delivery trucks going from the city, distribution center or outpost to an outpost?
The Pieces, Titan and similar craft are like FedEx, UPS trucks doing P&D jobs?
The ARGO-Cargo and RAFT move items/units between Hull ships.
Obviously the various jobs can be done by ships other than what I've indicated, but I'm sure you get the gist of my thinking? ;-)
The ship size has to be put into the equation for what you want to do... Like the 3 scu Aurora that you mentioned, or the Avenger would be main city to small planetary outpost. But something larger like the c1's and freelancers would be planet to space station. While even larger would-be planet to planet and the biggest ships would be between systems. The other part of the that equation would be how long does it take to get from point to point. Because if a hauler isn't moving it's not making money just like modern transport (farther distance equals more money on the mission board). After that then how long between loading and unloading. Is it a secure system or a pirate system? The smaller ships are always going to be faster and easier but due to the short trips they won't make as much money. So now you can see the natural progression of where hauler starts and finishes. Not to mention where the player or pilot wants to be or stay. Maybe staying in a system with a c1 planet to station or planet to moon in a secure system is the safest and best spot to be but risk vs reward taking a cargo mission into somewhere like pyro for example could multiply that pay out exponentially.
In game Ship prices should fluctuate regionally depending on the amount of resources sold by players to those locations.
Small cargo ships can transport direct to seller to reduce shipping overhead. Large ships have to ship in large amounts to overcome the overhead costs. Small ships for cargo will still be needed due to if you need to sell something that has special conditions to be safely transported (G-limits, refrigeration……) large cargo ships should tend to ship generic bulk goods.
I think one of the other things cargo hauling is going to need is other star systems. Such that you can only get certain materials and goods from other systems. I think that's what ships like the larger Hull series are designed for, multi-system distance runs. Also, I think what you want, and I agree with, cargo runs that make sense, such as running ore from the mines to the industries are planned and will happen when we get the larger UGF's they're working on now.
using the ports as commodity exchanges would probably be best case scenario tbh. hopefully any price differences selling to the planetary TDD would mostly even out when factoring time spent docked and moving cargo to and from. maybe still allowing for smaller (i.e. Hull A, Caterpillar, etc.) cargo vehicles to make some extra profit bypassing the port. price going port to planets being marginally different for low risk commodity trading.
the it's true though, freight hauling could easily replace courier type contracts. commodity trading and freight are different and "freight" could be any "Point A->B" deliveries using 1/8 to 32SCU shipping containers. it's just a matter of generating a pick up anywhere i.e. city Hab, city business, port, outpost, etc. with an appropriate container, and a plausible destination. could basically base levels off of container size and value of contents. could be good beginner and Zero To Hero type missions to deliver Amazon packages and Uber from the food courts.
The cargo decks seem to act as an intermodal station that dont necessarily house the cargo for the station its self.
Truckers don't even decide, they have brokers/dispatch for that. Now truckers use apps to match their trailer type to a cargo job. Especially for owner operators. Its very video game like, just copy that.
Owner operators use brokers.
Contact drivers us a company dispatcher. They use their own or company equipment.
My running theory is that Tony Z and team got dragged over to Sq42 to help polish it up. Helps that the servers couldn't handle quanta right now anyways. Maybe by year's end we'll see the first hints of the "real" economy.
i think the hauling missions will need to be ship specific, like this mission requires a light fast moving ship, or a large cargo capacity or something to that effect, because say you had a mission that was 3 scu of cargo for a aurora and you want it to be worth the time so you make it pay well, whats stopping someone from piggybacking multiple of those missions or hauling larger quantities of that commodity? if large ships can pick up large quantities of a very valuable commodity than itll just break the market
I’m hoping that with basebuliding you’ll be able to sell directly from your outpost. That way, you could sell your produced goods (weaponry, commodities etc) without needing a large cargo ship to ferry them. Likewise, it would provide traders with further opportunity to buy low, sell high by buying from player outposts at a discounted rate
no you should have to create a HAULING contract or move them to a port yourself not just "i make item and sell like magic"(cave man tone)
@@harleyurquhart292 Dont you think that this is more in line with the idea of a player driven economy? players buying off eachother with mutual benefit
I have the best strat for circumventing all frieight problems:
Do Something Else.
If I was going to give a very low level run down of things then Id argue that cargo hauling and commodity trading would be different things. I think cargo hauling should be hauling other peoples goods, with commodity trading being the buying, selling, and organisation of transport. There would of course be some middle ground in there of independent "traders" who look at the market and then buy, transport and sell their own goods (kind of ehat we call cargo at the moment).
In terms of the economy itself I think the biggest let down is that it's not lore based. Freelancer did this excellently. Each station had a reason for existing, when you spoke with NPCs what they said would maatch with the high/low prices of goods going to and from each location. This doesn't really exist in Star Citizen.
I landed on a station in SC that had a refinery deck, sold medical supplies and crystals or minerals or something. I mean Ive heard of healing crystals, but why would a station with a refinery be selling medical supplies and not refined metals etc?
Connie has a issue with large containers and stacking them when close to full due to the height of the ship and its cargo deck
Cargo missions are like your Walmart truck bringing stock to the stores. Whereas delivery missions are like your door dash driver. I don't see them in the same category or think cargo replaces delivery missions.
I'm a truck driver owner operator and enjoy delivering on SC
Imagine a Verse filled with 1 Million Players and 9 Million npc; dynamic economy needed ;-D
For cargo hauling, unless you are running illegal trade, I don't think any commodity is worth it in a ship that can carry anything less than 150 SCU. The time, effort, risk do not equal the reward possible at smaller quantities.
I think it would be amazing when locations need the proper resources before they can produce their commodities, it'll give you a reason to make a loop (bring resources to point A a couple of times so you can take a more profitable route from A to B a little later)
Current outposts do not make any sense for trading anyway (they don't have any space to store anything)
I think it would make sense for the new big locations to take over that role and they could have hangars.
Moving cargo from everywhere to everywhere and for everyone and all items from components to ground vehicles' and all tradable commodities and mining material and every item you could use in game ,that means for settlments,space stations and anything for refineries or any facility that needs goods, great topic BTW,thank you.
I love the idea of cargo insurance. Makes sense to me!
We can't even move large amounts of items from a to b from the inventory
One day I'm gonna be able to sweep out my cargo hull
This just made me think.
If a Hull C is like a big cargo ship
An A2 is like an 18 weeler
And say a Freelancer is like a box truck
Then a Station is like a port
A city is like.. A city
AND
Your own base is like your house.
So imagine if you could place a beacon/mission requesting/buying a certain type of resource.
Like 2 SCU of food, and then a player can make a decent amount of money just moving that from the nearest city to your base, i think that would be really cool, and since we already have medical beacons, it feels pretty possible to add.
“Seems” cool… too easily exploitable. Pirates would have a field day literally just setting traps for people with fake beacons.
As far as remote sales. I don’t see CIG implementing it. It would screw up the BGS they have planned.
After landing you see a ship (name) you recognize and you talk to them and arrange to meet at the bar for a drink or two and a bite to eat? ;-)
All talk of "dynamic economy" doesnt mean anything in an enviroment of 9:1 of NPC to player. The players will not make any significant dent into the NPC run economy.
Not exactly, but we will see how far they go, they pretty much said they want players to make an impact as long as they don't break it
@@lolsalad52 so what is the point of adding the complexity of a dynamic economy if they basically want it to be static in the first place?
Videos like 'the cargo problem' are simply an offshoot of the fact that development of Star Citizen is agonizingly and mind-numbingly slow and people need to talk about something. We can't have a 'cargo problem' when we have a single system and a half-baked economy. We won't know if there is a cargo problem until there is an economy driven by more than spreadsheets and there is more than a single system in which to run cargo.
Also, I do think that deliveries will stay around as the entry intro to hauling for new players. It's a great way to become familiar with travel and locations.
Who the hell tells you that those small outposts stay the way they are, or that they don't get instanced hangars replacing the open pads to integrade a cargo elevator?
What was it with that thing up there and using it? 😂
Current outposts are legacy placeholder stuff that is terribly outdated. It gets replaced anyway.
I really hope that Livestock isn't a thing that exists in a large scale in the future because I'd hope we have more advanced and efficient ways of creating protein like in vitro meat, etc. I'm sure there will be a luxury market for "real meat" but it would a certain type of boutique luxury good on a much smaller scale.
But if they do implement livestock then you best bet I'm starting a Vegan Pirate gang to liberate all of the animals :P
I think vehicles would be great. Deliver 4 tanks somewhere, or STVs or something like that.
be able to take ore from mining outposts and refine it at refinery decks then sell the refined product
The whole stock trading idea would benefit more for crafting. From mining to crafting trade network.
2 minute timer? Why not add parking fee? I mean if you know you need longer time, then pay for parking space then lol! So make short parking free but if you need to take longer then it should be paid.
If you want really REALLY great cargo/manufacture game system look at game called Prosperous Universe. It's a just a spreadsheet part of space game but this is the exact economy backend that if put into some real 3D game not just spreadsheets it would be the best game ever. I hope Star Citizen will get there. Both traders that trade from terminals and actual haulers that move goods is probably the best thing there is.
In prosperous universe manufacturing and production is really well done you have some stock that can last you few days and if you mess up and forget to get something you put order and get some nice extra premium or fly it on your own ship. Unless you are big fish you will always fly your own stuff but later on you need to hire small new players because you can't hall everything yourself and that create really great gameplay for smaller players who like to play small and chill style vs tycoon who wants to make all the money and create tons of jobs for all the small casual players. Works great IMO.
I'll be honest I am taking a break from SC and playing WoW...
same aha. SoD?
@@JordanVegBike both that and Dragon Flight, its solid enough :)
Would be great for delivery to be replaced by an Uber Eats Delivery style, or buy orders from Eve Online.
I think they've begun realising they have spent more than 10 years but still need to build the industrial side of the game comparable to eve, factorio, satisfactory or foxhole 😂
At this point, pretty much everything is waiting for server meshing
NOT ENOUGH ONLINE BEER
i think you misunderstood what he said about the cargo deck... you might want to think carefully about it
Your wrong Mike, he saying you dont go downtown (TDD) to sell ur cargo when ur parked at the port. Its not like this IRL at all so it doesn't need to be this way in the game. Where u drop off should be the same place u sell/transfer, no need to take a ride to Downtown to offload ur cargo. Its the job of the drop off location take in the cargo electronically and to physically unload it.
Why not have some NPC ships also haul rather than simulate it? That opens up game play loops and missions.
There isn't Cargo Hauling in the game. Only Trading.
Great discussion. Cheers
I believe it’ll be really cool if we can run our own company say I have a Hull C, C2, Connie Taurus I should be able to hire NPC’s to fly and trade using those ships without guidance. That way I can sit on my 400i, 600i and let the money roll in 😂….right?
So you'd it find really cool to make botting legal?
I think it is time to start working in economy v2.0, that will allow more interesting emerging gameplay
boxes are miniture crates, miniture crates are big crates, crates are smaller containers, small containers are same as big containers. all this it has "x" inside and a box is stupid. every box should be as a sadal bag, with a digital lable on it for what is inside the box, and everything from fuel, to liquids, to ammo, armors, component parts, to vechiles, or even tinny ships should all be able to fit inside varous boxes. so boxes should never go away. and the digital lable should be what the terminals scan for deposits with various stations. and when a deposit station recieves box with x size, those items should instantaneously be transferred to its localized vending items. as a transfer of ownerships. and the ai needs to react with localized storage components. this is the key element that is missing. players have storages but the ai does not. if you sell tons of things to the AI and the AI store house is filled. the AI should not be able to receive additional items. where after you make the deposit. you should get your box back empty. this is the next element that is missing between common trade. a package delivery as mailing items the box is transferable with the items. and doing deliveries will aid with ai storage growth, but doing ai deliveries will also cause the ai storage to shrink from one location to the other. these basic elements need to be True before the progression of adaptive economy.
then after you have deliveries, and actual item deposits for transfers of goods and not boxes. then you can set up ai pirate locations for black market goods. then they could even add expensive boxes that are shilded from scanning with hacked digital readers. so the box can be opened and store 1 thing, but the components actually put inside the box is something else entirely. adding to the hacking and smuggling loops which are near non-existant. as that is crucial tech to forward those modalities of game loops also.
where if you deposite a hacked box, and sell x items, but actually sell idk miscellaneous dust as if it were hydonite? then the local ai store is in a currency deficit and item deficit. which then effects market rates, and causes a warrant for arrest to go out also affecting bounty play by malacious transactions and not just negitive player combats. also adding to the bounty loop game play.
it starts with packages, builds up to large containers storing components and ships, then builds even further with inventory readers that are hackable, and having the proper ai scripts to exchange goods and be bluffed on the sale of wrongly listed items. that is how it should be.
In Star Citizen if I hire anyone in my reclaimer it is beneficial to them not to me, they are trying to enforce into the game the current stage of capitalism where it's somehow OK to hire someone and give them 1% or 2% of their labour value as salary and that's the problem.
5-6 years is my guess, feels about right
I do think we need to make more (what we make now then when this game goes live) money right now as this is an alpha and we will get all aUEC wiped all the time. Once there is longer term progression ie. keeping aUEC then we can push the price per contract down.
All that is great, but when you spend hours and millions getting the cargo, only for the servers to shit the bed, as they've done for YEARS, and you log back into a bed, with a 30 min wait time, your money still gone, and you have to pay a fee to get your ship back.. that, that is the bane of all star citizen gameplay.
ship defense systems like personell turrets at top of cargo ship or somthing like that. boom only ones authorised to enter ship aka crew and npc crew and those given permission by the captain. any one else gets turned swish cheese
Is there something in SC that have no problem😅 big patch and fix patch dropped but elevators in bunker missions 50% of the time not working😮
Drug destroying mission often have no drugs or no guards, SoO still often cant be completed do to missing target lt or shuttle not coming, back pack can disappear during any mission for no obvious reason😂😢
I just want smuggling missions to work 😅. Right now they are so broken.
i feel like the stock encon. will be more like neopets
I want to be able to set a contract myself if i want to spec my ship but don't want to fly around picking everything up i can give someone X amount for their time and do it for me would be good for newbs to learn systems planets and where stuff is.
I dont understand why they dont just replicate a real economy, mining outposts etc buy gems from miners, cargo haulers buy them cheap and sell the at a higher rate at cities etc. if no one sells to a location the prices go up, and make the prices immediately searchable.
Because its hard to do, its what they are trying do with quanta, but they also need to simulate transport times, booms, depressions etc. Etc. Its a lot more complex than most people think, especially when you have to think about brain dead players fitting into it too 🤣
No hate to Drake Cutter enthusiasts but I just can’t wrap my head around it. That thing is so damn ugly. But fly the ship u love and don’t let my confusion dampen ur joy 🫡
Pls stop calling Star Citizen a Sandbox. This is NOT a sandbox. Not even a little bit.
Its a full blown themepark. Themparks have community events and player housing.
I need some team
I think that @astropub called it, the new distribution centers will likely be the only places we can trade on the ground.
am I banned from posting here?
I don't think package delivery isn't going anywhere. You need something that fits in an Aurora and a gameplay play loop that basically teaches new players how to land and take off while giving tour of pretty looking moon tech. I suspect cargo missions will require Cutty Black or bigger size ships and you won't be able to do them in a starter.
I understand how they balance the Hull C and up. They literally can't buy or sell from the same locations as everyone else. But right now how you balance a C2 and a Cutlas just seem to be quantity limits but nothing stops the C2 from filling it's first 46 cargo with drugs or whatever and then filling the rest with something that is supposed to be moved a bit more in bulk. So it just random first come first server for the more limited quantity stuff and if you are flying a medium ship there's a good chance there is nothing decent for you to carry. ...One thing that may help is segregating where you buy and sell from based on the quantities you are hulling, so the large ships have to go out of their way and it doesn't make much sense to pick up the high value low quantity items that should be intended for smaller runs. Obviously a C2 load still has to make more profit than a Cutty or C1 (and the Hull C more than the C2) but they could be balanced out a little more this way.
I feel they need to make it to where you can either make your own shipping company or work for a npc shipping company the corporations would then give contracts through a player owned or npc owned shipping company this would open different routes to shipping like a beginning route to shipping could be npc shipping company’s you can sign up for they would then loan you a company owned small cargo ship and that would open shipping contracts you could do then once you save enough money to get your own ship for cargo hauling you can either start and name your own company or you can work for another player owned company if you start your own company you would obviously have to pay a base fee to get the company up and running and ready to do missions on the other hand working for another players shipping company would be a bit different you would sign up to work for that corporation you would need your own ship to do the cargo missions and you would get cargo missions specifically set to the ship you signed up with (insuring you can pick up everything needed in one run) the player owned company would pay for part of the items picked up the player dying the cargo run would pay the remaining cost of the pick up fee for the materials take it to where it needs to go and make a percentage of the profits that would raise or lower depending on hoe much of the material was paid for (ex: i sign up to do a cargo mission for a player owned company lets say thr price of the full csrgo run is 100k creds if the player doing thr flying only wants to pay 10% of the run thrn they eill get there money back upon completion plus roughly 8% profit of the run (couldnt be the full 10% as the player owned company would be tsking much greater risk then the pilot credit wise of course) the percentage of what the pilot makes would go up or down depending on the danger of the system or planet that the pick up and drop off areas are in obviously higher risk = more money for the company and pilot) the only way this would work is to incorporate real-estate like the buyijg and selling of property's and company's as well as an actual banking system wherr you csn set up a personal bank account as well as compsny owned bank accounts i understsnd this may seem like too much to most and most would be fine with just being able to select a contract and go but the possibilities here are endless and the more indepth we make these things the nore realistic and rewarding the game feels since i started this game ive wanted to see a truly open world abke to do whatever you wanted endless possibilities ive wanted to stsrt either a shipping company or a mining company where i could send out contracts to players as a player having people mine and transport and refine and sell like a well oiled assembly line and if all of that becomes possible imagine the endless possibilities abke to mske our own player owned mercenary groups pirate groups hell you could even create a rscing company whos only goal is to go crsck the best times sround thegalexy at multiple race tracks …. i really hope this is the area that the gsme is going i understsnd it would take an enormous amount of work making banking possible as well as all the other small things that would go into it but if stsr citizen could pull off something like this it would be the best game around fof the next 50 years untill they could put is in the game id never touch any other game star citizen gods if your listening we beg you make this game as good as we pray for fuck i reslly hope these things are coming i want to own a shipping business i want to be able to give contracts to people to do a cargo run and i wsnt to be able to hire a player owned mercenary company to protect my company's ships while doing there runs which would enturn feed the economy let us do the work let us own the company's let us be one with the economy instead of it being something we look at from afar letting the economy decide what missions we do today because it pays more no give us something we can grow give us something to strive for instead of nice ships armor and a fat wallet give us something we can be apart of idk about anyone else but this is all I hope for a new system is cool new ships is alright new missions would be cool but being able to own and operate being able to change our prices to undercut and overhead the competition allowing us to control payout percentages to rival other corporations pay these things will make a truly amazing game like no one has seen before i doubt anyone will read this whole thing with all the typos and such but I don’t care I just wanted to say this is what I hope for personally and I think detailed things like this if it is possible to bring into the game would make it the most amazing game ever made and I hope for the day it comes true
It's all an NPC economy. What's it matter anyways. You might as well call the cargo XXX or ZZZ.
Waste of potential for sake of laziness
buggy or not,
its BORING AS HELL