From Failure to Fantastic: How to FIX a Scuffed Cylinder
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- Опубліковано 24 вер 2024
- From Failure to Fantastic, here's a step by step process to fix a scuffed cylinder, hone the engine block and pick up some horsepower along the way.
Watch as Lake Speed Jr takes one of his Dad's old Ford NASCAR engines and brings it back to life with just a few simple changes - new pistons, rings, and hone. Then just for fun, they swap the carburetor and fuel to see how much power this 1990's engine can make.
#engine #enginebuilding #pistonring #horsepower #dynotested
Lake, This is the stuff I love to see. It's a helping hand to those without NASCAR budgets!!
Take care
DV
Hi DV! Nice to see you found the Total Seal channel.
Sodium hydroxide dissolves aluminum and eats fat also known as grease or oil. The crystal drano actually has aluminum shavings for it to dissolve and make heat to help dissolve grease in slow or clogged drains. Works good to degrease rear end housings as well.
Ain't chemistry fun? Really like this channel. It's unconventional and interesting.👍
Never realized Lye reacts with Aluminum, that's cool!
Thanks for watching!
@@TotalSealLake when you say if you leave some of the aluminum in those recesses it will grab the piston, didnt a lot of small engines have aluminum cyl walls? Would that be the same scenario or did they do something different to make them dissimilar metals?
@@stevenbelue5496 When there is an aluminum cylinder liner, the pistons skirts are coated to create dissimilar metal contact.
On a classic trucks site I belong to there's a lot of talk about lifters currently made for use in old school flat tappet cam engines being defective, going flat during break to 1000 miles.
Many claimed they used zinc containing oils and or zinc additive.
I've never had that issue in hundreds of engine builds, or cam upgrades.
Could you do a video on this?
By the way I was a NASCAR fan in the 70,-90s.
Remember your dad won when he had his surprise win, front runners crashing near the end of the race with your dad weaving through to victory and giving JC the credit. Amen.
Check out the truth about ZDDP video on the Motor Oil Geek channel
muriatic acid also works awesome! It will just remove the aluminum. Same idea
ua-cam.com/video/jXxWfX-6mD8/v-deo.htmlsi=1hvgK_WWw1e5hJXb
I was curious about that myself
I agree with that. I used to race 2 cycles and it was a common practice. To clean the aluminum out of the cylinders after a scuff. Put muratic acid on a Qtip or other applicator. Be sure to rinse and oil after. Muratic acid can make everything around it rust
I'm not a chemistry whizz, but I think the muriatic will also attack the iron block/sleeve too, just not as quick. So I think it's a viable option, but you'll need to do it fast and neutralize the acid with baking soda ASAP.
@GroovesAndLands I run a machine shop where we rebuilt high performance engines. I have been using this method for +25 years. Its pretty standard in the industry. The acid doesn't hurt the iron block. BUT after you neutralize the acid you need to oil the block to stop it from rusting. Muriatic acid isn't that strong.
MUCH respect for men of automotive science and engineering. Gale Banks, LS Jr, etc. Great video!
Thanks!
I’ve had the Tennessee Abrasives scotch brite hones for several months now.
Check your surface finish before and after. You will be surprised at what this step can do.
Kenny Smith is a very helpful person.
Absolutely!
Kenny Smith even helped the Houston Rockets win back to back championships!
I’ll blame it on my autocorrect. It’s Kenny Harris at Tennessee Abrasives.
Some science behind all the HP right there!!! Nicely Done... I like that....
More to come!
I had a v twin briggs that got a little overheated and had some slight piston scuffing from going a little egg shaped.
Cylinders looked ok,no metal transfer.
So i took the much hated dingleberry hone, tried my best to become a real honing machine as most folks spin the drill way too fast and don't go up and down fast enough either.
On the pistons, i took a very small piece of hone stone and oiled it and started cleaning off the scuffing.
You can feel when the stone glides smooth,STOP!
I saved them, and in fact you could see the original machining marks aeound the skirts as if they were new.
I really dodged a bullet there as the overheat wasnt that bad.
This was for a project that was more about having time to myself than getting it completed in a short time, and laying out minimal cash.
She works fine ,pulls 14" of crankcase vacuum and doesnt smoke or consume oil.
I put it on a riding mower thats more like a sit on go kart,as its pulley swapped to do about 30mph.
Heres a short vid of it if you're interested .
ua-cam.com/video/_S1B4l8OqNA/v-deo.htmlsi=xjdTHWdWTGJrtlSg
A few years ago i starting hearing about the coating on pistons for Harleys.. Heat cycling, tune on a dyno ect . The coating seems to do a great job..Thanks for the videos and info
Thanks for watching!
Hello lake i want to thank you for all you bring to the table sharing performance tips and tricks that people wouldn't normally get to see , thanks for sharing with us always enjoy your videos
My pleasure!
Driveway cleaner that's basically 50/50 methanol and lye works pretty good. Spray foaming oven cleaner works pretty good.
100% lye is also available at hardware stores and is cheap.
Muratic acid will remove aluminum and leave iron alone. Other forms of acids can etch iron and steel.
Neat stuff. A pushrod engine rev'ing to 8700 rpm. I'm not up on what these pushrod engines are doing. I'm impressed. I know it surprised the Europeans at LeMans. Anyway, where I worked we used to glass bead the skirt to get that surface raised a little. Also 0.7mm for a compression ring. This stuff is impressive.
I'm not surprised that this lye technique came from karting.
Great tip, Lake! Also, very timely for me as I have scuffing in a small engine right now and am going to try this to clean it up! Thanks! (I'll use straight NaOH, though.)
Thanks!
cool video, my advice would be to get a wooden dowl/stick/1x2 and wrap one end with several brillo pads and then zip tie the ends (so it pops out in the middle), this way you can use a little leverage and reach easier. Thanks!
Cool idea!
Wow that’s a crazy increase in HP from just an update in hone and rings!
Compression is everything
@supersportimpalass
You fuss other people saying “did you even watch before commenting?”
Maybe you should watch it yourself before commenting.
No, that hp was not just from hone and rings.
Watch again.
…And carb and fuel
I have saved 3 engines with this process and am about to do a fourth.
Hi Lake, as usual, your content is always awesome and I enjoy this channel a lot, so thank you, but there is one thing that is better not to pass.
Look buddie, if you leave that film or "strip of aluminun" in the bore and begin the boring proceess without, first get it out, for example, like you said, did it, well, without any doubts you will contaminate the stones of the boring tool, in the practice, I saw this...I lost the count, in this mini subject, that's all I have to say my friend, thank you.
Lake
This some fantastic data.
Keep up the good work.
Chip
Way back I had a Suzuki Quad Sport and messed up the bore because I used fuel with no oil. I didn't have the money to fix it proper so bought a new piston and rings, and did exactly this. Engine never ran better afterwards to be completley honest. And that was with a hand done hone job.
So it ran better afterwards?
Ive had to needle gun and peened a couple of pistons to expand before, still all running strong. Can't wait to try line 2 line
Lake, Just got to the end of the video here. As Tony the Tiger says ----GGRRREAT STUFF!!!!
Thank you sir!
learned something as usual... thanks
Thanks for watching!
Hey Elvis, what happened to getting the piston skirts knurled??? It restores the clearance and provides channels for oil to get trapped, this modern society teaches to throw everything out and buy new things that can be easily repaired..
This engine would be on a stand and rotated where the cylinder is parallel to the floor, also media blasting using co2 would clear that crap out without harsh chemicals or leaving media FO in there
Caustic soda, as used in a hot tank, would work great. If we accidently dunked something that still had aluminum somewhere in it, it would look like a big ol' Alka Seltzer.
If you can find Easy Off paste oven cleaner, that stays where you put it.
Good tip!
Bored my Chrysler 400 .007 over neural all the Pistons .007 install backwards I did this 20 years ago and used cast rings at the time off of Ford 390 still running I take it to 7500 RPM
really amazing what a hone and new rings can do for an engine. Not every problem requires it to be bored. Ive honed an engine with good amounts of pitting and large ridges put it new rings and it runs great. Sure going 20 or 30 over and new pistons would have fixed everything but all that machine work for an eninge you can pick up sub $500 all day every day just isnt worth it
I did a super-quickie "rebuild" on a 5.0 SBF for a dude that popped the engine in his Mustang. I had a very, very used shortblock laying around so I gave it a good hone with a Lisle (a real hone), 20 minutes at the coin-op car wash, tossed some 0.005" over rings into it, new bearings, polished the crank with some crocus cloth (not in a crank lathe, just by hand) and shipped it. Ran like a scalded dog and didn't even mind the 150 shot of N2O he put on it.
Lake, great video again. You might need check out WPC treatment for an upcoming video. It's like shot peening on a micro level. I think you would find it interesting.
To remove aluminium smeared on steel use a solution of caustic soda and water. Caution, as the solution dissolves the aluminium but not the steel it will generate explosive hydrogen gas.
I use wet wipes as a mat to hold the caustic in place (wetwipes are polypropylene so wont disolve in the caustic).. in this sort of scoring on just one side.. wet&dry contact glued to a PVC pipe slotted as an expanding sleeve.. then hand lap just that side before doing a full fine hone for new rings.. no piston coating needed
Why did the pistons skirts scuff up??🤔🤔🤔
Rust pitting in the cylinder in this case. Did you comment before watching the video?
@@bigboreracing356 yes , hone out the rust , toss in some ring and bearings gaskets , it will get grandma down the road to the grocery store for the next 10 years
He said may have, didn't he?@@supersportimpalass
Too hot so it expands. Breaks through the barrier lubrication. Sticks a little and then the stuck metal compounds the lack of barrier.
@@jasontrevis7142to fix either free up 0.5 thou to 1 thou or get a better cooling system
Hi Lake, chances are you are going to do a post oil analysis on this engine. It would be interesting to know what chemicals show up in the oil from the Line2Line coating. I asked them about that over a year ago and at that time and they didn't know. I had an oil pump coated to reduce clearances and the coating did wear off in some areas as expected.
Great suggestion!
perfect timing i need to do his t mine after a injector failed open
Lye is called a few things. Sodium hydroxide or caustic soda. You can get it at most hardware stores or Amazon. They took it out of Walmart because it’s a precursor for methamphemine
Ayyyy it's that oil tribology guy
I wouldn't trust a thick coating of skirt material to last. If it fails then you have .005 or more clearance at the skirts which will result in more rocking and wear at the skirts.
Lake, I have the fix for two stroke race motor bore scuffing. Thought you might be interested.
DV
Us nitrous drag racers commonly use muriatic acid to etch aluminum transfer from a hurt piston out of a bore..... slam a new piston in there and go win the next round. To be honest my personal car/engine has been faster after scabbing it back together after being hurt a few times than it was when brand new.... still pulling 17" pan vac on a wet sump so its sealed up.
Nice
Yup... and old two stroker trick... Piston scuffing happened a lot on the air cooled engines
Hey lake, I'm a tech and a couple of my friends are going through excessive oil consumption almost certain due to low tension rings being gunked. Are there any tricks that can help without the cost of a rebuild since the car isn't worth that much? I've heard chemicals down the spark plug holes to soak the rings?
Lye is just sodium hydroxide (NaOH). Should be relatively easy to find some 1 or 2 molar solution.
Was this the engine where you made the piston clearances very tight for more power?
Maybe the engine wasn’t allowed proper warm-up before it was pushed hard. Pistons will heat/expand more quickly than the iron block.
Different engine
🔔😎🇺🇲
Excellent!!
Thanks for posting.
Keep up the good work. 😎
YeeeeHaaaaw!!!!
Thanks 👍
Pool acid, use paint brush put it on, eats alloy, not iron, just do outside with good ventilation.
this mean we get to see your dad rip around the track again this year?
Yes sir!
Nice! 👍
Thanks! 👍
I tried this on my LS1 and it turned into a puddle. How can I fix it?
jk. I want to re ring my engine, and didn't know if it was possible to clean up the cylinders while keeping the same (26 year old) pistons. Did you use Line2Line's Armor CC? My engine builder has a Rottler. Is there a new kind of hone that works with Mahle moly rings?
Hello Lake. What was your final piston to wall? And I'm assuming 2618 material?
Yes, 2618 piston. With the Line2Line coating, piston to wall was .003
Mutator acid will get rid of the aluminum and do it fast enough not to hit the steel
Which microskop camera did you use
UMO2 Digital Microscope
My friend ... 🧡
A mith
Put ring 180 posited.
Is it possible to have a key. On a ring to piston . On the ring so it dont turn on the the piston.
Normal ring . With a squre box on the ring. That join the piston .
A lock key. Ring stay in place . ?
Low by. Mick Australia 🇦🇺.
Im sorry. Im not Normal. But think out side box. God bless
have u tested rev x ?
So begs the question, what do you estimate was the cause of the piston failure?
A combination of factors. That cylinder was hotter than the others and we had just put a thinner oil in the engine.
Did you use one off diameter new rings or nominal?
Same size rings as before. They are file to fit.
muriatic acid (pool acid) cleans out the smudged Aluminum with little to no effort.
But why scuffing in the first place, pistons or rings too tight?
I'd suspect it's due to the previous rust pitting he found in that cylinder taking the coating off the piston then its all downhill from there.
The line to lune coatings. Does it fill in the cylinder cross hatch valley?
Nope!
@@TotalSeal thank you!
I think the first thing to do is find out why only one piston got hurt?
What about a single liner in this case?
Way more work than this.
So you did end up with all new pistons? Im just confused. At the beginning it was one piston?
8:05
Just three new pistons.
@@TotalSeal Thanks.
@@TotalSeal I heard one at the very beginning, then later, 3 new pistons, but here's my confusion.
11:30
@@randywl8925 We had hoped to save the two lightly scuffed pistons, but we decided against it later.
Marty McFly.
😂
LOL
IDK you replaced 3 pistons and used line2line which isn't cheap and isn't fast. If possible I'd of bored it and got 8 new pistons and called it a day.
Them old guys would just bore one cyl
What causes the scuffing my 2t aftermarket scooter bores are all like that while the rusted original that had 4000 miles on it still has the factory hone... the piston the company sends with the cylinder seems loose would tge piston rattling around really obliterate tge cylinder wall
use break in oil for the first 2 gallons and run it rich , don't turn the screw for max power , run it rich a little so it sounds rough , run 25:1 on the oil ,if the plugs foul then bump it to 30:1 with race oil after a gallon , if you feel lucky goto 40:1 lol , you want the rings to wear into the cylinder and seal properly before you tune for power for the first 2 gallons
it's scoring because it's getting HOT from lean ( not enough gas ) and maybe not enough oil , and not properly broke in ( ring seating ( sealing ) to the cylinder ), if the rings are not seated the gas passes past the piston back into the crank case and will fool you on the tune
@cardboardboxification the first one I baby'd through 2 tanks starting with 120psi cranking pressure ending with 60 before I decided to replace it with another which I took a more aggressive approach to break in upon disassembly I discovered a similar condition... third one I supplemented the fuel with oil on top of the oil injection with 1/4 cup to 2 liters of gas ran it through upon disassembly same horror
@matthewfredrickmfkrz1934
Maybe you don’t allow enough time for block to warm up and expand?
@@bobirving6052 piston to wall clearance is 0.45mm
Try spray oven cleaner.
Thanks for the tip!
To comment never see on the web. A ring with a position locater one a piston. Where it don't turn around. And compression goes through.
If make money Please help me down siddome child 🙏
I have never seen a aring with a key. God bless
Need audio on your preview
Engine Restorer. Like a Mexican in a can.
Why touch the other cylinders if they are in good shape or if they needed a hone then fine but bringing them all out seem like unnecessary work and cost
5-6 hp gain per cylinder, just needs 16 cyl's 🙂
That would be cool!
Sodium Hydroxide is preferable, Muriatic (HCL) will attack the bore.
Be very careful, when doing this process your making hydrogen rapidly.
I made this same comment several times who is listening
If you’re going to use a horn machine, why even bother? Lol what a goof.
I have sent way worse. I just use a flex hone tool and a drill and be done. Half the time i just use a little sand paper. You would vomit if you watch my shorts.
flex hones conform to all the warpages in the cylinder. use a fixed tri stone
@@shootermcgavin2819 Most of the people would repair something like this will not be taking the block out of the car. I have lost count how many times in life I have done this. I usually end up selling the vehicle years later still going strong.
I also use marvel to silence a stuck lifter. 2 things i am sure this guy hates.
If this is one of my engines, I'm buying a new block or a new engine. Nothing worse the you doing this and in 15k miles loosing a hole or burning oil. Just do it right the first time. Generally with machining if you cant sleeve it. Its worse to try and save money and have to do it twice.
Can't buy a new one of those blocks...
Anyone can be a parts replacer, knowing when and how to do a good patch sometimes is the best way to go.
Don't waste your time ,it's a Ford motor.😂😮😅
LOL
OR...you could just throw it away... cause it's a Ford...
LOL, a Chevy R07 would have been cooler, but it isn't a bad little engine.
Wow Lake, you're becoming a real sheel. Becoming less trustworthy.