Why this is a game changer for me (AIAIAI TMA-2 Wireless+)
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- Опубліковано 30 чер 2024
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Chapters:
0:00 Intro
0:41 Live loop
1:24 Benefits of working wirelessly
4:03 Modular design
5:16 Issues with Bluetooth
7:07 Demo of "ultra low latency"
8:08 Tips for reducing latency in general
11:51 Pros & cons of W+
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Thanks for watching today and a big hug to you if you share this video with someone!
Can we just say, what an absolute madlad, playing synth keys and physical drums at the same time
Clowncore but mellow vibes
If you think that was impressive, prepare yourself for this: ua-cam.com/video/DEGnqB-54Us/v-deo.html
@@elusive2000 lol definitely less raw
Back in the late 1980's, I used to DJ in large dance clubs in Toronto, using wireless headphones. You couldn't use digital then, for the same reason (latency - you can't beat mix from a delayed cue channel!), so I had a set of Koss headphones that connected over infrared, like a TV remote! Sennheiser had digital ones that broadcast PCM over infrared, but they had latency - the Koss headphones were all analog. It worked great, had no RF interference, and freed me to move around the booth and quickly pull records to slap down on the turntable without getting wound up in wires. I wish I still had them.
That's nuts.
That’s nuts
That's bananas
That’s banana nut bread!
There are some older Sennheiser wireless headphones that have no latency, because they work analog. Drawbacks where lots of hiss and non linear plastic headphones.
I bought the TMA-2 headphones after Andrew mentioned them in an earlier video and a fair warning for people with big ears: the over-ear pads aren't really over ear. For me they became uncomfortable to wear after 30 minutes. Compared to my trusty Beyerdynamic DT770s, the sound is also quite bass heavy and slightly muddy in the low mids (I got the S05 MK2 capsules). The highs are there but not as pronounced. Sound isolation from the outside is sort of... half-open half-closed.
The latency is fantastic (16 ms) and the battery life is enough to last you for 12+ hours in low latency mode - A+ there.
But the wireless transmitter clips HARD when the signal is too loud - no distortion but uncomfortable clipping. There also is a noticeable hiss when you turn up the volume too much that you mostly notice when there is a quieter passage in the music.
Also I'm not sure if there is any way to tell if the battery is about to run out. It sometimes plays a sound but I couldn't find any documentation in the manual about the bleeps and bloops it produces.
So if you have average sized ears, are comfortable to spend a bit more on your headphones and are fine with a slight hiss - go for it. Despite the flaws (and the weird charging port) they are still IMO the best option for low-latency wireless studio headphones.
I've had a similar experience with my set of TMA-2's, from the very noticeable hissing and uncomfortable clipping, to the random beeps that get old real quick. I emailed support about the beeps and all they were able to tell me was that they're aware and there will be a firmware update to address it but with no estimated release date, and that i should subscribe to their newsletter to stay updated. pretty disappointing, given that the hardware is pretty great, and i love what they stand for wrt modularity
Ouch, over-ear is really important for me. No-go then until they come with different sizes.
My issue isn't generally big ear, but depth. Ears stick out just enough that most headphone press in on my ears making my ears hurt after long sessions.
@@_DRMR_ if you own a 3d printer, there are adapters to fit your favorite over-ear pads. I now am using the ones from the DT-770 headphones. This actually also reduces bass a lot so I even made the switch over to the "warm" drivers. the printed adapter also makes the headphones even more open - great for mixing but not so much for sound isolation. At least I can wear them now for a full day without any issues :)
Nice to have them compaired to 770's. Thanks.
I have TMA-2 and I generally like them, I started using them for almost all needs: listening music, office meetings, studio work, live recording, sometimes even for live mixing.
However, 16ms is far from latency free or ultra-low latency. The delay is still so annoying that I need to use the supplied cable when recording electronic drum set controlling a drum module in DAW. It just feels so laggy and definitely makes the playing harder than it should be. Without wireless phones, my DAW setup is stable at 32 samples buffer, which means less than 2ms round trip audio delay. Accustomed to that, the additional 16ms is just too much for me.
I know, 16ms means just ~5 metres, but you don't actually play drums from 5m distance. Your brain expects the sound hit as you hit the drum. This is especially noticeable on the hihat parts, while still doable.
Soundwise, I like the product and while it allows me to use wireless for most daily use cases, it's definitely worth of the money. The option to use a cable for killing the latency makes me feel better for the time-critical use cases.
Technologywise, I'm still expecting lower latency.
Yes the latency is still pretty noticable on these. On heavy tracks (and 64samples in Ableton) it can be an eighth note out.
Thank you!! I have the same experience monitoring drums and 16ms really was off from what numbers have worked for me. Would love to try them but for monitoring purposes of percussive I think long tangly cable will be my solution for a while longer
@@ivanmoren3643 I've heard some drummers use wireless in ear monitors. Do you know if that works? 🌈
@@robertschnobert9090 Those work very well and are used by musicians with high timing requirements (Adam Neely w/ Sungazer for example), but for good ones you need to be prepared to pay. Shure PSM 300 sell for around 800$ for example, and that is just one stereo transmitter and one stereo receiver.
I've been researching wireless headphones for awhile now and this is the first thing that convinced me to take the plunge, just ordered and can't wait to try tracking drums with these
What are you experiences?
Whenever a new Andrew video drops, it feels like the return of an old friend. So glad that this channel exists.
Andrew - loved your work since discovering STWPT almost 20 years ago now. Knew your voice years before knowing your face. Watching you rise to this level has been just insane to watch, and I’m really happy for you! The tons of effort are seen and appreciated for the difference it makes. I hope even greater things for you down the road. Thanks for always sharing your knowledge, and pulling us forward with you.
Latency is why I never stepped from playing instruments to producing music. I tried but the latency drove me up the wall. Too frustrated to keep trying. These tips make me want to give it another go!
This will help so much with performances for my classes, thank you.
I have been a professional producer for 25 years and I must say that you are really impressive! Being a musician and a technician at the same time is very difficult because it requires the ability to use both hemispheres of the brain. What you are obviously doing. Bravo! Could you make a video about the difficulty of making personal life and musical production coexist? Thank you :)
God damn, even when you're just talking about latency and wireless headphones your videos still look like a work of art
Put your pants back on, it’s an infomercial
@@BeastlyAnteater Doesn't mean the video doesn't look good.
Also I watched your little jam that you uploaded a year ago. Sounds good! That beat is pretty sweet.
@@RogueAstro85 fair enough lol, thanks
I've also used my live in-ear performance monitor for no-latency recording applications. Not bluetooth...it's radio. They aren't cheap either, but if you want to spend that much cash, and you're a live performer, you can get two use cases out of the same gear?
never even knew low-latency wireless headphones were a thing. gonna take these into consideration!
I mean wireless IEM packs are a thing.
@@aarocka11 Very exspensive and there's still a wire. And often mono. I've been looking into that option. Even just a pair of mono DT770's for tracking would be ace. But yeah. Wireless Monitor systems aren't as simple an option as you'd hope. Also while the latency is excellent it's not fixed like these. wireless monitoring systems average out about 5-6ms of latency from what I've researched. The ones worth looking at anyways.
Now it's arguable that you don't need to adjust any recording for latency when you're recording with only a 5ms discrepancy but that's where I'd be talking out my arse if I gave an opinion.
Microsoft used similar tech since XBOX one. They decided not to use bluetooth but a different low latency technology. I mean it's been years.
Wow, wow, wow.
My TMA-2 Wireless+ just arrived 2 hours ago and I can't stop listening to music.
Sound quality is great, fits my ears perfectly and does not shift when I move around.
4:54 DAMN this beat is so good, so hard to sit still and it just kicks ass. Hope that you continue to work on it and release it.
Nice!! I've been waiting for this!
I know it was mentioned, but I think direct-monitoring wherever possible is worth emphasizing. If you don't have the option on your interface, you can achieve the same thing running your instruments/mics into a mixer first and monitoring from that
Similar tip to your bounce one, but exporting an entire instrumental for vocal production. For background I use logic, but I think all daws make this easy.
I’ll use a recent example: I received a voice memo style demo from an artist and built most of a track around it. Then when it came time to track the vocals, instead of worrying about committing or freezing, I just muted the demo vocals, bounced the entire project, and imported it into a separate session. Then we had plenty of cpu headroom to record vocals even with fancy reverb and compression and several layers and whatnot. Then I went back to the full session, chose Import Logic File, and brought the vocal tracks back over with all their takes, plug-ins, and routing still perfectly in tact
This was a very informative, and extremely enjoyable, video.
Thank you.
I'll be seriously considering getting my hands on these.
That live loop performance was dope AF! I've been dying to setup something like that in my rig.
Awesome content amigo!
Cheers!
Love the stuff they make. I have an almost 10 year old pair of TMA-1 Studios. Great cans.
That live loop was really cool
I love these headphones, they were worth every penny. One thing that I think hasn't been covered enough about the AIAIAI TMA-2 Wireless+ headphones is the extended battery life in Bluetooth mode. If I am not doing any music production (using the wireless+ mode) then I only ever have to charge them once a week.
Nice video bro!
Its something I can't live without after having it for about couple of months. If you think this latency will prevent your from jamming live watch some of Gnarlys finger drumming videos! Awesome content Andrew like always! Happy to see this collab
TBH, Gnarly's comment on her video saying that she has no problems finger-drumming with these cans is the main reason why i pulled the trigger for a pair.... Because we can watch these sponsored videos all day long, but she's the one who's really deep in that particular pudding, and she's not gonna BS around about such things! The most solid endorsement i've seen on YT 🤙🙏🌌
I would definitely consider saving for these when I end up getting some new headphones if they have bigger earcups. I have glasses, so pressure on my ears ends up annoying me way more because of the glasses so headphone comfort is probably my top priority. I'm currently using the Sennheiser HD 579s I got on a really good sale probably 3 years ago now and they've served me well, but these make me consider upgrading. I wouldn't mind having a pair of closed back headphones as well and bringing out the Sennheisers when I want the open back.
Man, I am literally waiting by the door for my HD400 Pro's to arrive. However, watching you move around makes me realize that I need these in my studio as well. Thanks!
You could consider a wireless pack so you can use your headphones of choice wirelessly! You’d just need to make sure they have enough power to drive your headphones since they’re typically used with IEMs.
Been watching you for a few years! Just subscribed! You are on point my friend!
This is beyond timely for me bless you
For some reason I can't comment on a comment. Someone said the latency of aptX adapters was better, and I did some looking into it. I don't know where they got 3ms per adapter but if that's true that doesn't account for the 32ms of transmission delay in aptX. AptX is what is used to give Bluetooth 5.0 that 32ms fast end. W+ is twice as fast. And a good pair of studio headphones for 350 sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
Well I don't need a new set but I will put these on my list in case I'm feeling spendy.
Really got me with the modularity.
Thanks. Very helpful tips!
That modular set up is insane. As for the headphones, definitely something I’m looking forward to replacing my wired ones with.
The implications of the effects wireless has for creativity really makes me think this needs to go up on my to-buy list.
If the wire on your headphones is what you think is preventing you from being creative and making great music, buddy I got some bad news for ya….
I feel like every time I see your studio i have to stop myself from getting the gear I see in the background lol so much cool stuff
I'm just here for that sick live loop.
One of the reasons why higher buffer size helps is because of an unfortunate reality of the maths that go into digital signal processing. Specifically, an algorithm called the FFT (Fast Fourier Transform): it operates in O(n*log(n)) time, but if you split it up into two chunks, you might have to run four times as many iterations of it. So, calculating 32 samples and then calculating 32 more samples, takes about 67% longer than just calculating 64 samples in that scenario.
This is the perfect review of such a product, focusing on latency as the manufacturer intended.
Appreciate the game/ info 🔥
I might have to try these out. Wow!
I loved the throwback to the time travel of the space crystal
I had a ton of problems but now I’m using the Low latency mode in Logic which has given me… low latency. Not loved by all but does the trick. For me an easy process is important so having the DAW automatically turning off plugins when recording is great.
This has nothing to do with wireless/wired, though. Low latency mode is useful if you're listening to the output signal while recording, which nobody does exactly because of the latency (low or not, there *will* be some). You shouldn't listen to the DAW. Get an interface with direct monitoring or use a mixing console.
@@IlBiggo True regarding wireless! Personally I do not use direct monitoring but maybe I should… It’ll be something to explore in the future. In some cases when recording for instance drums from the midi drum-set I guess direct monitoring won’t work and then the low latency mode is a lifesaver (I think?).
You and LOOK MOM NO COMPUTER are like crazy music scientists… and its awsome.
if insanely thorough . was a person-- thank You -- appreciate the time taken,, seriously.. -- been trying to figure if even standing somewhere else in my room was even an option , might definitely try these-,,
OH MAN THANKS FOR THIS DETAIL REVIEW
Those drums sound incredible though!!
Lovely to see the Polybrute in action, also wondering how your hearing is these days? Gonna check those headphones!
Biggest latency tip I've discovered lately :
In Ableton , TURN YOUR TRACK MONITORING ON OFF, it litteraly makes your recording as latency free as your interface can be
Can you explain what you mean a little more please?
@@ThePrehistoricWars images , better than words ua-cam.com/video/PT5mD2Zd7F8/v-deo.html
@@melo3101 Thank you
Not a music producer, but this is still super cool! I've been trying to find a wireless solution for gaming audio - without sacrifices to quality or latency - for quite some time now! The only option I have tried so far that solves the latency is the Arctis Pro Wireless, but the hiss is so bad it hurts after a while. The TMA-2 wireless+ looks like the answer!
Have you tried Audeze Penrose magneplanar headset? It's designed for gaming.
For super duper low latency (and if you don’t mind feeling like a freak) I use those Swiff Audio guitar type transmitters- 2ms latency (undetectable to me)- with corded headphones into a female to female adapter with the receiver plugged in the other side. It’s a little bulky but I wear hoodies constantly so I just jam it all into my pocket. The problem will always be the adapter tho (it can glitch out the connection and I don’t know where to get a better one!). 2ms is close to perfection tho. I’ll probably get some of these tho cos 16ms isn’t horrible (like a nice slap) and then the adapter isn’t a problem anymore.
Bro, thanks for that open drum loop. You sir are a G.
gonna buy these
Wow, that first loop was such a flex hahaha. Loved it, and gave rise to the question: when will Marc Rebillet and Andrew Huang Collab?
I've got a pair, I love them!
I have learned so much about the Octatrack from you my dear. Keep up the great work!
@@andrewhuang I am incredibly flattered to hear that, you have been teaching me for years! Thanks for saying hello :)
can we get an updated studio tour? it looks like some cool stuff has gone on since last time!
figured out, instead of using preamp and PDIF optical output, I used the LG C1's built in mini jack out io to achieve much higher volume amplification
sound speed through air is about 343m / sec around 20C temp.
traveling 1m takes the sound 1/343 = approx 3ms. So listening to the headphones (with a fixed latency of 16ms) is like listening a musician friend playing 5.5m aways from you. Not bad at all but still noticeable.especially because in modern systems, your audio interface itself (not even using plugins yet) adds its own latency (roundtrip latency varies but is usually about 10ms) so now it adds up. You won't notice when watching someone else but when you play fast enough, you start to feelt it.
Amazing video content as always :-) can you tell us about the sound quality or even put it in relation to the ones you have?
Wireless headphones are not the issue. It's the USB driver issue that has latency problems even using ASIO. Having Aspergers doesn't help me either as latency has to be below 10ms in Reaper or FL Studio otherwise I notice straight away.
❤️❤️❤️
Glad you mentioned the noise floor. No-one else has and I was dissapointed when I used mine for the first time. As you say though you can work around it by turning the phones down low and the source up. Still, nice phones, £300 is steep for the sound quality imo but the freedom to move around is great. Also... bluetooth is like 80 hours playtime! :O
I need wireless headphones for my live streams cause I move around all over and a cord would be deadly.
Up to this point the only solution I have had luck with (since I listen to my mic) is using a Shure PSM 200 system. It has the LOWEST latency I can find anywhere. But then I have the cable to the wireless pack, and that gets annoying.
This might be the PERFECT solution!! Thank you for sharing!!!
Is the Shure PSM 200 system stereo or does it a down mix to mono.
Nice jams as usual! Curious to know what you've been doing with that Elektron Analogue Drive. I have one and haven't had a chance to drop it in the mix much yet.
I am seriously debating buying these!
Seeing them in two videos you made really makes me want to change my Sennheisers, especially because of the cable problems I keep having. However, being a Piano player, 16ms is a really big difference for me. The moment I realize I don’t notice it anymore is about 7-8ms and having that be doubled is really hard to get used to.
Wonderful explanation and really enjoyed the video none the less ❤️🙌🏼
I stopped buying Sennheiser headphones because of cables.
Andrew got paid to show them in his videos ;-)
@@el_dani 😱 WHAAAAAAA?!
~20ms is absolutely fine for keys. you get used to it. I even got used to playing with the ~50ms latency when not using my interface, but it definitely impairs my playing a little.
@@drkastenbrot I am hearing what you are saying and while that is an option, you are going about the problem from the wrong side.
If you learn something in a particular way, the answer shouldn’t be “well, now just unlearn it”.
As for the latency problems that you have friend. In a live setting that will mess you up with keeping time, but if you aren’t gonna be in such a position, then keep doing what you are doing ❤️ so long as you make music, because I support everyone that makes music ❤️
As a musician, I didn't even know I needed this :D After seeing the video, now I do :D
I have been the biggest fan of yours for so many years. I wish I could afford these monthly lessons. But thanks for giving us less than fortunate people access to some amazing content even for free on UA-cam.
6:24
I love the callback
Hey Andrew! Cool stuff as always 🙏🏼
What is the tape machine called? 🤩
Finally, I thought I was crazy! 13:35 I have wireless headphones and even at normal level I hear that hissing sound, in the end I always end up going back to the 3.5mm jacks.
Love the quick callback to Spacetime 😂
ah a fellow Soyuz lover. I saw that SDC and Bomblet. Got the 017FET myself, managed to snatched a limited edition for my VO work. Hope you're enjoying them as much as I am!
I’ve got three questions: 1) Is each earphone’s volume separately adjustable (if I want to avoid having bleed through by wearing with one earphone off of one ear so I can hear myself in the room? 2) Are these able to record vocals with their built in microphone? 3) Using a 3.5mm to usb c or lightning adapter, can the low-latency transmitter be plugged into an IPhone 12 Pro Max or an IPad Pro circa 2022?
Fresh cut, sir.
By the way you can also use gaming headsets. They are made for low latency. You wanna hear a guy shooting at you before you’re dead … so if you’re looking for something a bit less pricey I would suggest something in the SteelSeries Arctis series. Although The Wireless+ does have Bluetooth as well which is a nice bonus
This. Gaming headsets with a wireless dongle (non-BT) have a latency of 19ms.
I had purchased the TMA-2 / H05 when it first came out and the recharging battery in the headband died within 2 years. I was disappointed but when I contacted their support they offered me a 20% discount coupon on any new product. I thought that was a kind gesture. I just worry that spending this much on headphones that may not be usable after 2 years is not ideal. Love their design though.
Very interesting 👍🏼
Love their industrial design
fyi: Logic also has a freeze function! I’m (somehow) still using a 2010 macbook pro so i use the freeze function pretty heavily lmao
i’m more of a video editor than a producer, but these got me intrigued, AirPods editing just have too much latency even though it’s really convenient
THAT INTRO IS FIRE
Nice video!
Completely agree wireless monitoring is a game changer in the studio. 16 msec is a bit much if you ask me (no one asked me....) Wireless systems from Sure and Sennheiser can go down to less than a 1 msec , but they are much more expensive......
I use a system from Shure P3T/R. As I see it being able to use your favorite headphones with the Shure system is a big advantage for me. But as I said, its much more expensive but well worth it :-)
would it require any, like, solder-level modification to just grab the receiver and plug the audio into a preferred audio device?
Thanks For All Of Your Input, Also I would Like To Know That If I Bought The Transmitter Only and Connected it to My Car Audio System Which Has Bluetooth, Will I Be Able To Sync My MPC Live 2 Standalone To It Because It Is Bluetooth Capable as Well... This way i Can Do my Finger Drumming Inside My Car With No Need For Cables, The Transmitter's Link To Aux Input would Be it...That Would Be A Game Changer For ME.😁
That would be sick! ❤
Aha I've been looking for something wireless like this! For those who have used this, how's the audio quality compared to a wired headphone - is there any degradation? Also, how neutral are these headphones? I'll be using it to mix/master.
People are saying the audio quality is not great and very colored. Why would you want to mix and master with wireless headphones 🙈
hey andrew its been long time since your app "flip" released. are they any news on getting it to Android??
0:41
DAMN brother! That goes hard!
Now I really want to see a clearer picture of that pedalboard in the background at @3:20
Was that an Old Spice commercial?! That was awesome!
5:33 Sick sample =)!
i’ve been considering getting the TMA2s for MONTHS now but i really can’t find much online about how good the sound quality is. planning on just recording vocals but would be nice if i can mix/master on them too. if anyone has experience with them i’d appreciate some feedback, thnx !
Hello Andrew, like the video (especially the mobility use case with headphone and guitar)...and have a quick question on the Wireless +, I use mine for home entertainment primarily and use a headphone amp to boost the signal (via my OLED TV Source LG C1) however, I often have to switch to Bluetooth from RF in order to increase the volume and can't seem to get the Wireless any louder, any suggestions?
Man, I could spend the rest of my life on your studio, jeeez, hope someday I have 1% of all of this, and dont say you dont need it!!xD
I own these and can fully endorse.
Great video , what is the name of the technique around the 5 min mark that involves the mixers and switching cables to create sounds ?
In theory I'd really like something like this, but I don't like the fact that they're tied to a specific set of cans. I'd prefer the option of a more traditional wireless bodypack type of deal, like the 2.4GHz ones typically used for wireless IEMs. $350 is way less than the $850 you'd pay for a Shure PSM300, and I imagine that a transmitter / receiver pair using the aiaiai tech without the actual headphones would put that $350 price point even lower for people who already have IEMs that they use. I'm primarily a drummer and don't really like drumming with cans on, I much prefer IEM's.
Tip: if at all possible; don't have the computer you make music on, connected to the internet. Windows and other programs updating in the background, as well as anti-virus software always running, can really affect the computer's performance. No internet= less problems. If you are using a subscription service for your DAW, ditch that and get one that doesn't require a subscription. If you need to download something, do it on your phone, or another PC, run the virus scan, then transfer the files to your music PC. This isn't an option that will work for everyone, but I highly recommend this method.
What bass stand was that?...That thing is cool. Also, I'm guessing this was done using Ableton since that's Andrew's DAW of choice... curious how recording the clips were triggered.
@@mattgav23g20Me too! That was sick how he walked up and played it like a standup bass! ❤❤❤
If I bought a pair, then not for the 16 ms of latency, but for the other features.
The reason for that is that I got a pair of old wireless FM headphones, which with its analog transmitter is achieving under 1 µs of latency if you're not hundreds of feet away.
Yes, the sound is not close to any professional monitors and sometimes also a bit noisy, but it's sufficient for what I'm recording, and I don't know why this isn't more widespread.
.... Because IT's 2022 and people want good sound quality along with low latency....? 🤷♂️🤨🌌
Just a note on your "you can't notice 16ms" comparison - our brains are really good at matching up delayed audio to visuals (because it happens literally everywhere). You might notice latency playing something that you don't notice visually. But 16ms is still really short, I don't disagree with your conclusion, only your method.
Fun fact - this automatic brain filtering doesn't work if the sound arrives first. Your brain won't notice the delay if the sound occurs 100ms after the hit, but WILL notice if it happens before.
Audeze Penrose magneplanar headset also claims lossless low latency playback, I wonder how they compare for music production. Magneplanar headphones usually provide very high quality sound.
Hi Andrew as a Torontian myself , I luv your channel, since you own an apollo 8, can u do a proper console video on the TMA 2 wireless setup , I am using console and logic together, having issues, THks.