I thought the Metal Virus was simply water. I'd only seen snippets, and I thought Metal was simply being curious. That's really sad now that I know the truth.
@@SpiderYeen What do you mean by that? When I was reading the metal virus part of the comics, I wasn't really paying attention to the details so I'm not sure what you mean
@@aquarify7188 He's referring to one of the anniversary mini-stories that came out during the metal virus arc I think, so you might not have seen it. Basically it follows Metal as he silently contemplates his robot body, and it heavily implies that he is sad or jealous of Sonic being the, well, real Sonic. When the guy said they thought the liquid was water, it was because Metal dipped his finger into the metal virus fluid and watched as it had no effect on him, since he's a robot.
I always had a theory that Metal Sonic’s perception was warped, like when he captured Amy I imagined he viewed it as her being saved from Sonic, who he would likely perceive as a sort of Metal Sonic, and he genuinely believed he was the real Sonic and went mad because he didn’t know why all his friends were so scared of him edit: looking back this shit was so obvious I didn’t deserve 800 likes on this
It's an interesting idea, I think, but isn't Amy tied up in CD? If she was able to convince Gamma, then she probably would have tried to talk some sense into Metal Sonic, too. But of course, that's certainly not what supposedly happened.
The crucial thing that made Metal Sonic so memorable in CD was that he was a perfect *thematic* foil, rather than just narrative. The whole game was about exploring the dichotomy of nature and technology and how they can manifest in positive and negative ways for the planet. Metal Sonic is sort of a bizarro reflection of the real thing; a “bad future” Sonic, if you will. Sonic is a champion of nature and has to fight Metal’s influence in every stage. Even tho his appearances are limited, his presence is felt throughout the title because the core themes are always at the forefront of the player’s mind. Even the marketing was careful to frame them in perfect opposition to each other; you could draw a line down the Japanese and European boxart and they’re pretty much a perfect mirror image of each other. Equal and opposite in terms of power, but with Sonic being fundamentally *good* and Metal being fundamentally *bad.* They’re not just fighting each other but also fighting for the future of the planet and it’s aesthetic ideology. There’s a effortless genius to Metal Sonic’s sleek, sharp, heartless design, compared to the softer, rounded and personable look of Sonic. In that sense, Metal Sonic was *made* for Sonic CD, in the same way that Knuckles was made for Sonic 3 and Shadow was made for SA2. When ripped away from his original context, SEGA is forced to actually create a new motive or emotional hook, which they did with Heroes but couldn’t be bothered to do ever again. If you can’t justify the prolonged use of a character that’s already served his purpose, it comes off as cloying and unsatisfying.
@@leritykay8911 *cough cough* chaos *cough cough* then again they didn't really forget about chaos but they saw potential and decided hey kill the water making chaos a perfect way to show how a villain should be used but forces didn't care and I'd rather have a boss against a copy of chaos with the phantom ruby than metal sonic since it would work but metal should be a character that shows up way less frequently sure I'd still like to see him but he is a character that works will only some stories so I wish they fix up everything and continue on to fix metal and all the other characters
I think metal sonic had various forms because he wanted to surpass sonic’s super form. Sort of like a “ anything you can do, I can do better “ type of mindset that he has.
A question I have for Metal Sonic’s character is that one of Metal Overlord’s voice lines, he says “he is no longer afraid of anything.” The question is what was he afraid of? I personally think he was afraid of facing that fact that he is not the real Sonic.
I agree, I think his delusions are so intense that he cant handle not being sonic, and in that moment he sees himself as more, a god, he WAS god in that moment, as it took 3 supers to take him down
i think anyone who tries to give layers to these deliberately unidimensional characters has an offset of peterpan syndrome... I love sonic, for the gameplay...But story and characters? please xd... None of these characters should have ever learned to talk...Sonic was defined by his motion, and gameplay, not for stoping and having lengthy cutscenes where the controller is resting for minutes on end on your lap. This is a videogame. Case in point, Mario and Luigi are still unable to string a FULL sentence together, and their games have ALWAYS been far betterthan anything sonic has been able to accomplish since the genesis era. Metal Sonic was ALL we needed in terms of an edgy sonic, because he is exactly that, he didnt have to tell you, or speak in a badboy voice. Shadow ruined it all.
I’d like to mention that the rings in the walls in cd are actually tied to the time travel mechanic, in other time periods those walls aren’t there, meaning you can grab the rings.
cause it incentivises you to go to the other time periods if you think about it for a bit. best you could do other than that is make decorations or fossilized rings where theyd be in the future or past@@Echoline77
The true doppelgänger I never thought of Shadow as that, he is less of a doppelgänger and more of a powerful enemy/alley that just so happens to also be a Hedgehog. But people keep saying Shadow is like the venom of Sonic when it’s actually Metal Sonic
that it shadow is not rival he is hero he is"dark hero" why metal sonic spot off to bowser jr ripoff style evil chirdren boss character? seriously iizuka? ....ok he trying again rival shadow ....is prime oh no
One thing I wish they had done that might have prevented Metal Sonic from becoming stale was after Sonic Heroes, make his defection permanent and have him be a villain on his own. I think that idea has potential for new and interesting stories for Metal Sonic, like him trying to create an army of his own or something.
@@thepjshow Or maybe he gets his hands on Metal Knuckles, a Metal Amy, and Tails Doll and then they become their own team like Team Sonic or Team Dark. Maybe called Team Metal. Anything besides being just Eggman’s favorite Mook that can’t talk for some stupid reason. Btw how do you feel about SEGA mandating that he can’t talk, cause I think it’s just dumb.
My headcanon is that after Heroes, Eggman placed further safeguards in Metal Sonic to prevent him from rebelling again. The Doctor thought this would turn his creation back into a mindless lackey again, and it sure seems like it sometimes. Yet somehow, Metal Sonic still retains consciousness, and is pissed (think of Blade Wolf from Metal Gear Rising). The events of Heroes have become a distant memory and just another adventure to every other character, even Eggman, but not Metal. Oh you think that you're mad this cool robot has become a mere puppet? Imagine being that puppet, and remembering what it was like to have autonomy. This silenced rage will someday boil over and break the restrictions placed upon him. And when that happens, the real superpower of teamwork will not be enough to stop him.
I remember reading the sonic wiki and it citing that, that rebelling apparently being the reason Free Riders happened. And then noting that Eggman suppressed it again. Realistically it would probably happen again sometime in the future... Honestly, that just kinda made me feel even worse for him. His violent personality almost felt justified. Even then I wondered why does SEGA not ever make a game that addresses Metal Sonic, but still just...keeps him here; it's like modern Squidward. I wonder if that was true, well it'd certainly put Eggman's comment about him not being able to speak actually being a conscious design decision into perspective. Edit: I think it said even that part of the reason was his increasing fury of constantly losing to a "fake".
@@Jann75 The issue is that Sega basically banished any sort of "out of the box-thinking" to the Shadow Realm. When it comes to writing instead of making cash, they also straight up pretend like Colors is the first game they made after Sonic 1 and all the games inbetween were instead in some vaguely canon secondary material like some random obscure novel. When they temporarily gave Metal the ability to absorb hyper go on in Rise of the Wisps, my mind instantly went towards the possibility of how cool it would be if he ended up breaking programming and copied the Wisp data and could just use the abilities at will as long as he has enough stored energy. But eh, with how I know good old buddy Sega over there, they would never go with an idea like that. Because then they would have to think about power balancing.
You know, if becoming a Metal Overlord twice wasn't enough to beat Sonic, and Eggman's robots never seem to beat Sonic either, then Metal Sonic's conclusion should actually be really simple. To steal some of Eggman's old machinery that led to the cloning of Shadow, the perfect lifeform, and use it on himself, to create a hybrid between biology and machine. Something that transcends even Eggman's imagination... _A cyborg Sonic,_ if you will. Combine that with your plotline about Metal being mad about losing his free will and being used like a puppet, and why is Sonic Team out of ideas again?
Heroes version of Metal Sonic was by far my most favorite because it was MS at his peak in my opinion! Also that transformation scene had me dying! I forgot how overly long that scene was, but I still love how epic it is.😆 Such a shame that he's been treated as nothing more than a side villain! If he's somehow the final boss in Frontiers I'd be happy!
Hot take - Neo Metal Sonic should have been the default design from Heroes onwards. Maybe the leather cape is a bit tacky, but the design is badass as hell
My vision of Metal Sonic is Robotnik's greatest invention. Sonic's first actual perfect doppelganger, matching his speed and agility. Being an actual challenge for Sonic. Okay, maybe Mecha was more of a challenge but he is more of a upgrade than an invention. Shadow was just Sonic's...well shadow, he really didn't have a purpose, only SA2, Sonic Heroes and Shadow The Hedgehog gave Shadow an actual backstory than just a side story. Out of all the inventions Robotnik's made I'd say Metal is the best machine he has ever built. Once was a challenger, proving to Sonic that he was the true Sonic, now being just a mini-boss, no meaning or use for him at all.
Mecha wasn't more of a challange? He was never a big point in neither Sonic 2 and 3. At best 2 but even that is forcing it. And in 3 at best he is better for Knuckles. Metal was the main deal for CD after he was done story literally had nothing more to do.
Both Sonic Heroes, The OVA, and the comics fully fleshed out his character and personality, anything after those games he became a nostalgia object with no purpose, nice analysis PJ
I'd love to see a Metal-centric story where Metal tries to find a purpose beyond defeating Sonic. Maybe after defeating him- even convincing himself that Sonic is dead- his mission fulfilled, he is free at last to forge a destiny he chooses. Then, at the end, Sonic is revealed to not be dead (big surprise) and Metal has a bittersweet ending where he cannot override his programming (or maybe he can in a true ending) and everything he experienced beforehand is cruelly wiped away.
I think I thought about a small theory while watching the video. That theory being that Eggman purposely resets Metal Sonic after every encounter with Sonic. After the events of Heroes, Eggman now has control over Metal once again and, being the control freak that he is, ensures his control over him by any means necessary. For most of the series after this game, Metal is mostly silent and just there to race against Sonic, like how he did in CD, his first ever outing. Thanks to the reset, Metal only knows the doctor and his mission, but not his countless failures, which was the cause of his actions in Heroes. Rather than choosing to scrap Metal, Eggman still uses him because of how close he is to Sonic, both in appearance and ability. The resets just tighten the proverbial leash onto Metal. I will say that I’m not all too familiar with the games he appears in, since my only involvement is watching people talk about them, so there may be some obvious holes in the theory.
_"I will say that I’m not all too familiar with the games he appears in, since my only involvement is watching people talk about them, so there may be some obvious holes in the theory."_ Welcome to the club, buddy.
@@dappleofthedualiesperhaps he remembers the events from Heroes cuz Neo Metal Sonic is basically “Metal Sonic Unleashed” (not as in the game Sonic Unleashed,but literally Metal’s true self being unleashed),where Eggman stops resetting Metal and allowing him to go further with his mission.
In the IDW comics it actually explains why they used a illusion Metal Sonic, he was being transformed into Neo Metal Sonic but was completed too late. By the way, I loved this video, also thanks for talking about that comic with Metal Sonic.
The IDW writers were on full damage control and repairs after Forces. Undoing coward Tails, actually explaining where Blaze, Cream, Metal, etc were at, Knux actually hiding the Master Emerald (instead of leaving it out in the open in the canon Forces prequel comic) and more corrections.
@@puremltrash2 I think they were more referring to Forces itself being adapted (in other words, rewritten). Since the comics follow directly from Forces, the game's story is technically a prequel to them.
I’ve absolutely loved Metal Sonic for years now, he’s my favourite character behind Sonic himself, and it genuinely sucks how much he’s been downplayed into what’s basically just a more dangerous badnik. The idw comics definitely gave me hope that he’d go back to how he once was, especially after Reflections, and given that Ian Flynn is seemingly becoming the new main writer for Sonic, I hope he can incorporate Metal into a game that justifies his inclusion, and properly brings back the character so many people love
Metal Sonic's characterization in one of the Sonic Mania animated shorts where he is rescued by Amy is pretty darn adorable and one of the best things they did with him sinced Heroes and the IDW series.
Just re watched that video and it's very understandable now. Seeing that Metal Sonic has been losing and losing over and over again to a point where he's given up on trying. He no longer sees himself as the real Sonic, and he can't beat Sonic, so he sees himself as a shameless copy. RIP metal sonic
What traits? I can see Shadow being a point of contention because at least he’s also artificial and kinda sorta looks like him but Knuckles and the others? Knuckles himself is a character who got scavenged hard for future characters like Blaze (lonesome serious Emerald guardian who learns about the meaning of friendship) and Silver (naive good-hearted rival who gets tricked by the villain into thinking Sonic is responsible for his home being a mess) and arguably even Sticks (grew up in the wilderness and is driven by instincts) after these traits stopped being used for him. There are better examples, like Johnny from Rush Adventure who is also an Eggman robot who primarily battles Sonic through racing.
@@rainpooper7088 I personally see as 2 main traits their desire at least for while to beat sonic or just seeing sonic as a threat to the things they do. Metal Sonic- Was programmed to beat/destroy sonic and kept doing till the end of heroes. Knuckles- Was tricked but saw sonic as threat to his island and the master emerald. Shadow is pretty easy to explain. I wasn't thinking about sliver till you brought it up thanks. Sliver- Was trying to save the future but amused sonic was the one making the future bad. I haven't seen or played much Sonic rush so I plan on getting more information on that game. In my opinion, before sonic changed most of their minds expectation (I think Johnny and metal sonic). They saw as a threat and later on after making it was mainly because a friendly rivalry.
I was actually thinking about mentioning the OVA in the comments, and then heard you mention it yourself, the OVA has an amazing depiction of Metal Sonic, and how he willingly sacrificed himself at the end, stopping Sonic from saving him and saying “Sorry, there can only be one Sonic the Hedgehog…”
Metal sonic was my favorite character for the longest time. But over time, I've realized that I don't want him in the games anymore. If he's just there to be there for sales, and have metal sonic fans have hope he'll do something, I don't want him there. Either do something with him, and treat him like a character, or don't have him in the game in the first place. It sucks for me to say that, but it needs to be said I want metal sonic the character, not metal sonic the jobber
@@rickyrackey7930 I can just imagine Metal stalking the main characters wherever they go (maybe camouflaged since we're going by sci-fi tech?) and now I just want that so badly.
Remember how Metal Sonic was absent from Sonic X? Personally I was fine with him being a race rival & cameoing the way he did in Sonic Adventure. The 2010s for Sonic were just crap in general as far as the games were concerned.
I remember growing up on Metal Sonic. All the drawings, all the badass moments, just for Sega to overuse him for “Marketing Values”. I truly love what IDW did with “Reflections”. It shows that Metal is self-aware in this scenario. Him realizing that he’s copy. The fact that there aren’t any moments of dialogue, and just the imagery can set up a good example for telling an awesome story. It made me feel bad for him, I think he dipped his finger into the Metal Virus, hoping it might’ve transformed him into something…different, but to no avail. Him walking away so solemnly is a reminder of that.
If Metal comes back in Frontiers I think it would be cool if he was voiced by Ryan again since he did such an amazing job in Heroes, kinda like how they got Vegeta's Ocean dub voice actor Brian Drummond for Copy Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super.
finally someone said those names together so i can spout crap. one is ryan drummond, and the other is brian drummond. i waited years to question why they sound similar. you have fulfilled one of my purposes.
What an awesome analysis of Metal Sonic, I really wish that many of the characters, including Metal, get improved portrayals in the future, but sadly, their former glory doesn’t seem to be coming back soon.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Hopefully with Ian Flynn writing the stories in the games now, he can be redeemed. Or he could be the main villain of Sonic the Hedgehog 4 (the movie).
@@thepjshow Honestly, one of the things that I really want to see is some three way interaction between Metal Sonic, Knuckles, and Shadow. All 3 characters were rivals/enemies of Sonic considered his equals, while having interesting interactions with powerful gemstones, like the Chaos Emeralds, Master Emerald and Phantom Ruby. The possibilities are fascinating, as all three could be considered equals to each other in different ways while having personalities and abilities that have great variety.
I can imagine Eggman being scared or paranoid to include Metal Sonic into his plans in Forces after what he was capable of in the events of Heroes. Opting for a mindless duplicate than the unstable original, although he could have attempted to build a new metal sonic to aid infinite or maybe he was finished with Metal Sonics in general
The IDW (more specifically, Neo Metal Sonic) comics state that Eggman was actually converting Metal into a Neo form from Heroes, and I guess using the phantom copies to still have Metal Sonics out there. Neo was finished after the world was saved tho.
There's a theory metal sonic is a roboticized sonic from the future. Since if Eggman could create something like metal sonic, why wouldn't he make all of his armies like him?
@@dappleofthedualies Oh yeah that makes sense to use the phantom copies while upgrading and reworking any bit of Metal Sonic so he wouldn't go rogue again. Guess he wasn't completely turn off from the idea of Neo Metal Sonic
@@NintendoMeister2260 Eggman sees Metal Sonic as a work of art in the IDW comics, so he probably sees it as something that can't be replicated like the average egg bot but only refined. I guess the closest we got are the previous versions of Metal such as Mecha Sonic or the phantom copies, or maybe Eggman just has too much pride
I’m gonna give the sonic mania episodes some credit for metal sonic. While they didn’t really use that whole rival thing for sonic, I really like how they made him actually threatening and pretty cool.
The Amy Christmas special was also pretty good for Metals characterization at least to me, in that he gets essentially depressed because he failed to beat sonic yet again and Amy has to pick him back up again
Honestly I'm just glad that they kept him silent. It's a small trait of his that really keeps his character cold and imposing. That being said, I can't wait for Chris Pratt to voice him 10 years from now.
A Sonic CD movie would be cool asf ngl. I feel like they would start producing it after the Sonic the Hedgehog 3 movie comes out, because there already is a teaser for that movie when they showed Shadow.
After seeing this comment (Man the Chris Pratt casting is such a mistake) and more importantly the responses I would honestly really like to see metal sonic show up in the next sonic movie because they've done a really good job on the two that they've made so far. Might give him a redemption of character, and if not we know his fate is sealed.
Honestly, the Forces inclusion makes some sense to me, since Metal is already Eggman's strongest creation, and the Phantom Ruby can mass-produce that and upgrade said copies endlessly with no real effort. It beats having only one Metal with no upgrades. That said I admit I don't know why Metal wasn't there, aside from Eggman maybe considering him obsolete at the time.
only excuse I can think off is Robotnik didn't want to risk Metal going rogue again and stealing the ruby for his own ends, we've seen what Metal can do when he decides not to follow orders, would you risk that happening with the Phantom Ruby? I know I wouldn't.
Honestly I agree. Metal Sonic has always been my favorite and while I didn't mind his Sonic 4 appearances, Sonic Forces is where it really it the fan for me. I remember going through that boss fight on the bridge and thinking "Where is the real Metal Sonic?". However I have high hopes for Metal. If Frontiers goes well maybe Sega will keep Ian Flynn writing for future Sonic games. If there is one thing Archie and IDW have taught me about Ian Flynn it's that he can write Metal Sonic like no other.
Metal Sonic is a character I prefer to be mostly silent, I feel his actions show his character the most Most of his actions alone show how much he despises and wants to surpass Sonic, especially in the Metal Virus arc in the IDW comics in where he touches the Metal Virus and it simply slips off of him while he on looks at Sonic trying to speed of the Metal Virus, he’s just a copy and he’s coming to terms with that. Yet he still wants to overcome Sonic I guess me and you have some similar views on Metal Sonic
I always viewed Metal Sonic having a voice as a representation of his free will, mainly because in the games where he doesn't have a voice, or when his dialogue is more robotic, he seems to not have that much free will. While I do agree that Metal Sonic being as chattery as Sonic would completely ruin the character, I do think that he should be allowed to talk sometimes.
Nah metal Sonic having a voice in his transformed form shows the scariness of his evolution because the robot suddenly has become sentient and has its own free will. I agree his original form shouldnt talk cuz its just a robot but the talking adds to his transformation and serves as such a good contrast from normal programmed robot to an actual living thing with emotions. Thats scary which is why it works
I think the best thing about Metal Sonic is always that you might know everything that he's going to do, but that won't help you because he knows everything that you're going to do. Strange, isn't it?
At the first time when I saw Metal Sonic I fought,"This is gonna be a 2D character without personalitty" and was shocked when they were able to make a robot with actual personalitty
I really do feel bad for Metal Sonic. After he's been overused, I'm glad he might be getting a break in Frontiers. He definitely deserves it. Though for Forces, I always like to imagine that Eggman didn't want Metal Sonic there because he was actually scared of Metal. He remembered everything that happened and that if Metal Sonic betrayed him, he could take the Phantom Ruby and transform into what he did in Knuckles and the Chaotix. Or even worse, Metal Overlord. And I can also excuse the Generations thing as well, due to that being Classic Metal Sonic. You can tell he has shorter and stubby limbs. So he has to be the Classic version. But the Sonic 4 appearances always confused me and the Mania boss fight always felt lazy to me (Still is a great game, don't get me wrong). But Metal Sonic is still the best rival in my opinion for Sonic. This may be a bit of a hot take but I prefer him being the rival over Shadow. I just hope that one day, Sega can see his true potential and stop using him as a game seller. Good luck to the metallic hedgehog.
@Jamie Gioca. Well, there's another reason he might not have been in the game. Maybe he just wasn't finished being rebuilt. That's the only other reason. He wasn't as finished as even Sonic 06 was.
IDW actually provides an explanation for this. In those comics, it's revealed that the real Metal Sonic was being upgraded into Neo Metal Sonic to ensure that Sonic wouldn't stand a chance, although by the time he was finished being upgraded, it was too late. Sonic and his friends had already won.
Also want to throw in the already collected data since CD and whatever eggman decided to program to metal up until heros Meaning that eggman may have taken a lot of data from the sonic 3 & K era
Another thing I love about Metal Sonic is he’s also a representative of how Eggman sees Sonic, that’s his interpretation of him, cold, angry, red eyed with a gaping void of a monoeye, spikes, and a jet engine for a chest, I like how these evil metal robot copies of characters are a subsequent reflection of how their creator views them, like Toc-Man from Pac-Man World having big sharp teeth as the ghosts from their perspective see Pac-Man as a hungry monster ready to devour, character design details should be able to convey such wordless conclusions and narrative characterization
I know he *very* rarely gets any voiced dialogue, but it's always felt like a missed opportunity to me to not give Metal Sonic the same voice actor as the real Sonic but filtered, to further emphasize the metallic copy aspect. Also, I saw that Morbius edit you bastard.
It's sad that characters like Metal Sonic and Shadow were ruined by lazy writing, although I do have hope that the newer games can improve that. Also hoping we get Metal Sonic in the Sonic movies, maybe as a rival built by Eggman to beat Sonic. Just a thought but nevertheless, good video.
I think metal sonic in the idw comics is pretty good.... In the first arc that is and certain scenes littered around but i think some of the moments were he's underutilized is do to mandates to keep him in a comfortable plave which in a character arc driven comic is bad
I was REALLY hoping for that instead of Shadow...they really screwed up there. Since they gave up Shadow instead of Metal Sonic, and Jim Carrey is retiring before Metal Sonic was designed, we can't get him in the movies anymore.
metal sonic is like, the perfect foil for sonic. it's pretty much eggman's greatest mockery, and argument supporting his wit. the hutzpah to make a metal mirror of your own worst enemy, and make them better than what they imitate. imagine a clone of you that does everything you do better, but also stands for everything you hate about the world. also, the design is cold as fuck. i love shadow, but metal sonic is just ice cold.
The IDW comic also explained why Metal wasn't actually present in Forces. Eggman was basically running updates on Metal so he could become Neo Metal Sonic without rebelling against Eggman, which worked. The updates didn't finish until Forces was over and in the beginning of the IDW comic Metal's goal was now to take over the world so that he could hand it over to his master on a silver platter.
Metal Sonic's flanderization reminds me of Shadow's. Both were once good characters early on, but as the years went by, they had no fuckin' clue what to do with them. And then resorted to simplifying them to certain traits that make them shadows of themselves.
16:05 I’m betting Metal Sonic (the real one) is on some sort of training arc, doing his best to get stronger so that he can defeat Sonic to prove he’s the real one. Infinite saw him as just another villain, and Eggman probably overlooked Metal’s reasons for what he did entirely. Infinite just summoned Sonic’s past enemies, and to him, Metal was just another antagonist. That’s why I think he showed up the way he did in Forces. I also want to thank you. I started with the newer Sonic games, and didn’t know of Metal’s crazy backstory, so thank you for rectifying that
Since you mentioned the comics, I like how they explained why Metal Sonic, despite being willing to betray Eggman in the past for his own ends, has become more loyal to him since Heroes because Eggman stopped treating him like a mere robot and more like a son. That makes the dynamic between IDW Metal and Eggman interesting because they might be the only beings that the other truly cares about… if only the games could explore that to make game Metal as fleshed out as IDW Metal.
I hope that he becomes a as good as idw metal and I have good felling because flin (don't know how to write his name sorry) writes the new games so yeah good day
What the next game should be: -Eggmans robots evolve and terrorise -Sonic hunts down Eggman -Eggman boss -Shadow showed to be mind-controlled -Few more areas -Shadow 'final' boss -METAL SONIC PLOT TWIST WITH EVEN MORE LORE
I love Metal Sonic, I recently replayed Sonic Heroes, and I consider this was the peak for Metal, but after 2003 there was no idea for him. Notice how in Dark Age he wasn't in games, and then in 2010's was just put in there for no reason with no purpose. After Heroes there's so much potential, like for example, they could have made story arc about Metal based on Amazo from Justice League/Justice League Unlimited, a artificial metal being that was created by super-villain for copying heroes abilities, and then he grows sentient and even starts to becomes more human and a good guy. I'm sad that we will never got this kind of story. Emerl from Sonic Battle is the closest we got for after-Heroes Metal.
I don’t really see Metal becoming a good guy that’s not in his character, he’s made to destroy Sonic plus he’s personality is too cold to become good that would be way out of character for him, but it would be nice to see Metal have plans more smarter and intelligent than Robotnik as in Heroes if you think about it he’s plan was actually pretty smart he steals the characters abilities and got them all together to destroy them.
16:09 why would metal sonic come along.His meaning is to out play sonic in his own game . If he done it with some one else it just wouldn’t feel like a real victory. It’s not him who was better than sonic, it’s infinite and him who are better then sonic
You just keep surprising me with how accurately you hit the nail on the head with these character essay videos. Sonic Team has neglected and forgotten to actually write these characters for far too long now, and it's a damn shame. I never would have become a Sonic fan as a kid if these characters were as empty back then as they are now. I really hope that Frontiers will be the end of this dark age at least story-wise, and we can start to look forward to these characters being actual characters again.
I think its clear that Sega has no idea what to do with Metal Sonic. He's clearly popular enough that people want to see more of them but they kind of wrote themselves into a corner. Betraying Eggman should alienate Metal from him and it would force Metal into being a separate faction. But that's probably too much of a lore leap than Sega is comfortable with, but there's no way to really justify why Metal would willingly go back to being a minion of Eggman. So they didn't bother justifying it and just made it happen. Thing is, his protrayal in Heroes is a big part of why so many people love Metal Sonic. They want to see more of him being so driven to beat Sonic he'd do anything to beat him, even if it means betraying everyone, setting up an elaborate plan to copy everyone's data and turn himself into a monster. But you can't do that every single time, that would be silly. Metal Sonic's struggles takes way too much limelight onto himself as well, so unless he is supposed to be the focus of the game it doesn't really make a lot of sense to even go into it. The obvious answer would be to make Metal Sonic a more rare character that only shows up to make a big impact. Except, you know, he's too damn popular and everyone wants more Metal Sonic.
I think this isn't a problem just for Metal Sonic, it's for just about almost any Sonic character. The team behind Sonic's story didn't understand why we loved these characters, so they just pop up randomly for fan service. What I think they should've done was go back and do an analysis on the characters to prove why we loved them a lot and wanted them back properly. This is why I'm glad Ian Flynn is writing the story for Frontiers since he's a long time Sonic fan, published Sonic comics and understands the characters.
Cream hasn't appeared in an actual game since Generations & I would argue they don't even bring characters back for fanservice with a few exceptions like Chaos. The people who have been writing the games during the 2010s had no actual knowledge of the series, which is why there were so many problems.
@@phantom-X2086 Decade of damage, it legit hurts my soul and we wasted a History Celebration Game with these imbeciles, Generations honestly could've been much better....
Sega should have made it so if you lose during the metal madness/overlord boss fight, there’s a short cutscene of metal taking the chaos emeralds and going super, while declaring himself not only the real sonic, but the superior one, before heading off to find a new purpose.
SEGA and Sonic Team's problem is that they know how to write amazing villains, but they don't know how to maintain them. Mephiles is arguably one of the best, also only made a single canon appearance. Sage, a great anti-hero, so far only been once. Sage will either be a Mephiles and die an amazing antagonist or become a shell of her former self, a "Shadow" of her old self if you will.
I wanna copy and paste an idea for Metal Sonic and how he should have been the main villain of Forces. I think each of those prisons should be guarded by a version of Metal Sonic. For example, a prison near Green Hill could be guarded by Silver Sonic from Sonic 2, one could be guarded by Mecha Sonic, and Neo Metal Sonic, and so on. All of them are hooked up to a central network, a sort of hive mind setup where they will all adapt to your play style as you defeat each one. It would encourage variety with the Wispons being crafted. Then the final prison to take over is the real Metal Sonic and he’s white and more advanced than any of the forms since he’s powered by a version of a super form but still distorted in some twisted kind of pure hatred like Dark Super Sonic from Sonic X. Like all of them will be optional to fight, and if you don’t go for the prisons and just go for the missions, then you fight all the Metal Sonics you didn’t destroy in each of the prisons. Sorta like BOTW with having to fight the Ganon forms and all. However, this version of Metal is really dipping into the existential nightmare of his very being that the IDW comics touch on and him going to huge lengths to truly show what he can do with his idea of carrying out his reason for existing.
Metal needs to be remade honestly. I love him so much but like every other character in the series he’s just been butchered over the years. I think bringing something back like mecha sonic will work
Metal Sonic doesnt need to be remade, they make him quiet and not do much, he just needs to do more stuff especially ones that are meaningful and have dialogue, Free Riders even has him the final boss and disguised as a lesser Eggman robot while faking being pathetic so nobody is aware he is even there or Metal Sonic.
I feel like free riders originally was going to be more focused on Metal sonic.With how simple the story is and how a lot of character dialogues feel out of character, Metal's sudden reveal at the end and the fact that he can still shape shift,collect data and how he keeps the collected data for himself(disobeying eggman) I feel like they changed the story last minute to fit the new voice cast and the tone of the meta era. I also think the theme song fits metal sonic especially the crush 40 and the beta version with lyrics like "felt so refrained, felt so constrained-but now I'm breaking out " and "Wants to be free, wants to be me, want to be everything that you see, wants to be heard, wants to be known, wants to be high". What do you think? I found this out from a comment on the beta version of free and can't stop speculating lol
I think the problem is that Metal Sonic doesn’t really serve the purpose as a rival. Considering he has a mental life crisis now. Idk what they’re planning. Maybe they’ll start making him nihilistic like Mephiles or The End? Who knows.
I personally feel that Neo Metal Sonic should practically be seen as a completely different character to normal Metal Sonic, considering how different the two are.
really good analysis as always, I really agree with the sentiment that metal shouldn’t be in the sonic media unless they actually need him there (this goes for knuckles too) because metal being overused makes him less cool, which is definitely not (at least i hope not) what sonic team wants
16:01, yeah you are right. Why make an illusion of a weaker version of Metal Sonic when you already had the original? Even sonic points this out, as if SEGA knew what they did with Metal was stupid.
I agree with most of this video, Metal Sonic's potential has been absolutely wasted in the series more recent games... but I have to say I actually liked Metal Sonic in Sonic 4 and *kinda* liked him in Sonic Rivals. (But not really.) (I have a lot to say about Sonic 4, but not so much Rivals. Regardless there's a decent amount of text below, so it's a bit of a read.) In Sonic 4, him destroying badniks in his stages and constantly showing up to challenge Sonic on various fronts in the game and not just races made him feel less like a lackey or throwaway boss fight to me and more like a vengeful rival who was acting on his own. One who was more desperate and more determined than ever to beat Sonic after failing to in Sonic CD. Metal Sonic is fought 5 times in Sonic 4, and each time he tries something different. The first time he tries to overpower Sonic with his newfound power gained from the artifact he uncovered on his own in Lost Labyrinth. (which has the same glowing effect as Super Sonic in the game. Even Super Sonic can't damage Metal Sonic in this state) The second time he tries to shoot down the Tornado from a distance with his own all new aircraft. (with Sonic mostly focusing on avoiding Eggman's aerial fleet to chase down the flying fortress) The third time he challenges Sonic and Tails to a aerial showdown. The fourth time he tries to team up with Eggman and perform similar tag team attacks that Sonic and Tails use during the game. The final time, after all else fails, he finally challenges Sonic to another race, a rematch essentially, only to fail once again. *Essentially in Sonic 4, Metal Sonic tries to outdo Sonic on every front, not just raw speed, but combat, aerial skill and Tag team attacks* This is exactly what I wish the series had done more with Metal Sonic, it's just a shame it's in Sonic 4, as Sonic 4 absolutely sucks at conveying any story without dialogue unlike the Classic games. To me, Metal Sonic in Sonic 4 actually perfectly sets up the villain he becomes in Sonic Heroes, in Sonic 4 Metal Sonic pushes his normal body to the very limit, trying countless different approaches to best Sonic, and fails every single time. I can easily see this furthering his obsession with defeating Sonic, to the point he alters his own body beyond recognition and is willing to overthrow Eggman and create his own plans in Sonic Heroes. *Every Sonic game after that though, screws up Metal Sonic and uses him as a throwaway boss in the exact same setup every single time. It's so stale.* Now Sonic Rivals, the only reason I like what they did to Metal Sonic there, is because I like to think Eggman would have put stricter restrictions on Metal Sonic after Heroes, which prevent him from acting as independently as before. Can't have your most powerful robot turning on you on a whim after all, but at the same time he's too powerful to simply never use again. But this is admittedly just my own take on Metal Sonics lack of personality or purpose in that game. To close off, I think Metal Sonic has just been used the same way in too many games now, and he's never used in creative ways. Perhaps if they gave him an actual story again, he'd be better, but I'd honestly rather see someone else get a random throwaway boss fight for a change if that's all these old villains are worth. (But oh well, I'll take Metal Sonic over a Zavok Boss any day of the week, no matter how disappointing it is.)
I definitely agree with you with metal sonic needing to be more of a character rather than a lackey. Heck, why not even have an entire game deticated to him.
I think I know why Metal Sonic was created as an illusion by Infinite. Maybe Eggman thought since the original failed to beat Sonic so many times, and since Infinite had the power to create illusions, and he COULD defeat Sonic, that maybe he could create a better and stronger Metal Sonic, but as an illusion. Or maybe because Eggman doesn't want everything that happened in Sonic Heroes to happen again.
I would have loved it if metal sonic had a boss fight where he is tough as balls, testing everything in your moveset by matching it blow for blow, along with a few extra moves just to be evil.
@@Mau.jpg0761 His proportions don’t look right, even for a sonic character. His head is way too big, his Quills are too smooth around the edges and he should have darker colors.
It feels like Metal Sonic went from a robot nemesis to a living Stardust Speedway reference too. Last time he had an original theme was Sonic 4, but even that game had a SS remix lol. Every time he appeared recently was just to reference the race in Stardust Speedway (Sonic Generations, Sonic 4, Sonic Mania, Sonic Forces, Team Sonic Racing, Sonic at the Olympic games...) Even in Colors Ultimate, which didn't have a SS remix, he is just there to race you... That's why i think Metal Sonic peaked in OVA and Heroes. Idk much about the comics btw... Also slight correction i think Metal Sonic KAI is Metal Sonic's name in the entirety of Knuckles Chaotix, not just his final transformation.
Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I still enjoy seeing him in things like colors ultimate and generations where his lack of character is understandable as he’s just an extra thing. Forces kinda gets a pass for me too since it wasn’t even him to begin with (though that begs the question as to why phantom Zavok actually had character when compared to every other phantom). I do hope we get another game with Metal Sonic as the main villain, though. He’s great in IDW and I’m hoping that translates over to the games with Ian now doing the writing.
Once you are done with the character analyzes (or if you want to take a break from them), it would be cool if you did a tier list of all the Sonic games and discuss their pros and cons (you mention tidbits throughout your videos but it would be nice to have it all in one).
I'd be interested to see how the films handle him. I'd tease him as a Thanos-level villain. It actually would be pretty easy (in theory) since he has so many forms.
Movie 1: Sonic Movie 2: Team Hero Movie 3: Team Dark + a few hints of Black Doom Movie 4: Amy and Tikal's planet (mystic ruins?) needs help from a shapeshifting metal menace, team hero are teenagers (except for "I'm 5 what is this?" Tails) and go help out. SA1 with proto-Metal Sonic instead of Chaos. Black doom revives metal sonic at the end. Movie 5: Metal sonic comes to Green hills. Sonic CD. Introduce Blaze and Silver in Dark Future? (possible Team Future- Blaze (speed), Silver (flying), and abducted-and-rescued Amy (power) ) Movie 6: Sonic Heroes. (Team Future replacing Team Rose) Movie 7: Metal sonic teams with Black Doom to be the villian of Sonic 06.
It’d be cool. At this rate because shadows been confirmed, I really hope we don’t see the bio lizard because it’s kind of lame. Metal is a way cooler villain
A bit surprised you left out the Sonic Mania clip where Amy takes pity on him. It's the most sympathy Metal has gotten outside the comics since Heroes. Though, if we want to push things, maybe Eggman uses Metal at every opportunity to avoid another Omega situation.
I wish you talked about other versions of Metal Sonic like Archie or Fleetway. Fleetway my opinion may be the best interpretation of the character. This is still great video
heres an idea: sonic heroes gets a remake. this time with a bonus episode after beating the true ending where you are metal sonic. this is framed like a prequel. it opens with eggman writing a letter (the same letter shown in team sonics story, showing he was indeed going to do everything as intended) and metal sonic is a three-in-one, able to shapeshift into the forms of tails doll and metal knuckles to act as flight and power. the first mission has metal sonic carry out a routine mission in stage 1 for eggman. only... he stumbles upon something that gives him sentience by the end. then he singlehandedly takes eggmans entire fleet down, fighting many of the same battles as in the vanilla game, but with the real eggman furiously trying to get metal back in line. as the game goes on, metal gets more and more unique sections which are much harder than the vanilla ones. along the way he sets up the conflict, disguising himself as sonic to take cheese and froggy, tipping rouge off about a secret weapon that would fetch a high price (being shadow and omega). finally, once metal destroys egg emperor, eggman begins to laugh. one final trump card: he explodes, revealing to have been a copy all this time. while the true eggman was piloting the egg overlord - which looks similar to metal sonic. metal sonic screams that he is the true sonic, having lost his mind due to the new power source driving him mad, revealed to have been a shard of the master emerald. he transforms into neo metal sonic, and once eggman is finally defeated, metal sonic takes complete control of his armies, unable to bring himself to kill his creator, he locks him up. but eggman was able to come up with components to send communications to the chaotix. and thus, sonic heroes begins.
Fun fact: Metal Sonic in Sonic Heroes was also voiced by Ryan Drummond, much like the real Sonic.
Metal Sonic trying to sound like Sonic to become more real is kinda spooky and cool to think about
Oh really, now that interesting.
*I AM THE REAL SONIC*
Much like the real sonic?
Gosh I wonder who the fake sonic is?
@@juicebox7372 *_I'll make you eat those words!_*
I honestly love the IDW comics so much. They truly preserve that great Sonic storytelling and the writers actually understand these characters well.
Agreed!
I thought the Metal Virus was simply water. I'd only seen snippets, and I thought Metal was simply being curious. That's really sad now that I know the truth.
@@SpiderYeen What do you mean by that? When I was reading the metal virus part of the comics, I wasn't really paying attention to the details so I'm not sure what you mean
@@aquarify7188 I'd only seen bits of the comic and not all of it. I don't really read the comics, so this was a bit of a revalation for me.
@@aquarify7188 He's referring to one of the anniversary mini-stories that came out during the metal virus arc I think, so you might not have seen it. Basically it follows Metal as he silently contemplates his robot body, and it heavily implies that he is sad or jealous of Sonic being the, well, real Sonic.
When the guy said they thought the liquid was water, it was because Metal dipped his finger into the metal virus fluid and watched as it had no effect on him, since he's a robot.
If we could look at this metaphorically, he went from a robot Sonic to just a robot.
Basically yeah
I don’t see him doing any commentary in the games
Fun fact:in the lego sonic game,eggman mention that theres a metal sonic that was be able to kill sonic showing the strength of metal sonic
Yeah but metal sonic to him is who thinks he’s the real sonic is why heroes he did so good
metal-phorically
I always had a theory that Metal Sonic’s perception was warped, like when he captured Amy I imagined he viewed it as her being saved from Sonic, who he would likely perceive as a sort of Metal Sonic, and he genuinely believed he was the real Sonic and went mad because he didn’t know why all his friends were so scared of him
edit: looking back this shit was so obvious I didn’t deserve 800 likes on this
It's an interesting idea, I think, but isn't Amy tied up in CD? If she was able to convince Gamma, then she probably would have tried to talk some sense into Metal Sonic, too. But of course, that's certainly not what supposedly happened.
@@artey6671 To be fair maybe Robotnik was the one to tie her up
He probably sees Eggman as his father
Insanely good theory dude, fr
I mean, he pretty much explicitly admits this with his deranged rambling and ranting during the Metal Overlord fight.
The crucial thing that made Metal Sonic so memorable in CD was that he was a perfect *thematic* foil, rather than just narrative. The whole game was about exploring the dichotomy of nature and technology and how they can manifest in positive and negative ways for the planet. Metal Sonic is sort of a bizarro reflection of the real thing; a “bad future” Sonic, if you will. Sonic is a champion of nature and has to fight Metal’s influence in every stage. Even tho his appearances are limited, his presence is felt throughout the title because the core themes are always at the forefront of the player’s mind. Even the marketing was careful to frame them in perfect opposition to each other; you could draw a line down the Japanese and European boxart and they’re pretty much a perfect mirror image of each other. Equal and opposite in terms of power, but with Sonic being fundamentally *good* and Metal being fundamentally *bad.* They’re not just fighting each other but also fighting for the future of the planet and it’s aesthetic ideology. There’s a effortless genius to Metal Sonic’s sleek, sharp, heartless design, compared to the softer, rounded and personable look of Sonic. In that sense, Metal Sonic was *made* for Sonic CD, in the same way that Knuckles was made for Sonic 3 and Shadow was made for SA2.
When ripped away from his original context, SEGA is forced to actually create a new motive or emotional hook, which they did with Heroes but couldn’t be bothered to do ever again. If you can’t justify the prolonged use of a character that’s already served his purpose, it comes off as cloying and unsatisfying.
Well, honestly... In my opinion it's sometimes better to use a character SOMEHOW rather than forget about him
@@leritykay8911 *cough cough* chaos *cough cough* then again they didn't really forget about chaos but they saw potential and decided hey kill the water making chaos a perfect way to show how a villain should be used but forces didn't care and I'd rather have a boss against a copy of chaos with the phantom ruby than metal sonic since it would work but metal should be a character that shows up way less frequently sure I'd still like to see him but he is a character that works will only some stories so I wish they fix up everything and continue on to fix metal and all the other characters
E
Jesus christ 2 whole screens of text.
@@DesrhonfromHelio Trouble reading? :(
I think metal sonic had various forms because he wanted to surpass sonic’s super form. Sort of like a “ anything you can do, I can do better “ type of mindset that he has.
Really? I had no idea why metal sonic said “I’m the ultimate overlord”……
A question I have for Metal Sonic’s character is that one of Metal Overlord’s voice lines, he says “he is no longer afraid of anything.” The question is what was he afraid of? I personally think he was afraid of facing that fact that he is not the real Sonic.
I’d say he’s no longer afraid of losing to sonic/being inferior to him, because at that point he’d thought he’d finally surpassed him
I agree, I think his delusions are so intense that he cant handle not being sonic, and in that moment he sees himself as more, a god, he WAS god in that moment, as it took 3 supers to take him down
The fear of being nothing more than a robotic copy of your master's worst enemy.
i think anyone who tries to give layers to these deliberately unidimensional characters has an offset of peterpan syndrome... I love sonic, for the gameplay...But story and characters? please xd... None of these characters should have ever learned to talk...Sonic was defined by his motion, and gameplay, not for stoping and having lengthy cutscenes where the controller is resting for minutes on end on your lap. This is a videogame.
Case in point, Mario and Luigi are still unable to string a FULL sentence together, and their games have ALWAYS been far betterthan anything sonic has been able to accomplish since the genesis era.
Metal Sonic was ALL we needed in terms of an edgy sonic, because he is exactly that, he didnt have to tell you, or speak in a badboy voice. Shadow ruined it all.
@@mailusphoenix8894 You had a point until you got to the second half.
I’d like to mention that the rings in the walls in cd are actually tied to the time travel mechanic, in other time periods those walls aren’t there, meaning you can grab the rings.
I KNEW IT! but like, why would they do it like that?
They probably didn't have enough time to make the rings invisible or the sonic team thought it was funny. @@Echoline77
cause it incentivises you to go to the other time periods if you think about it for a bit. best you could do other than that is make decorations or fossilized rings where theyd be in the future or past@@Echoline77
@@BlackbeltHitoshi Yeah
The true doppelgänger
I never thought of Shadow as that, he is less of a doppelgänger and more of a powerful enemy/alley that just so happens to also be a Hedgehog. But people keep saying Shadow is like the venom of Sonic when it’s actually Metal Sonic
I can kinda agree with that. I think that conceptually, Metal Sonic is the better fit for that role.
that it shadow is not rival
he is hero he is"dark hero"
why metal sonic spot off to bowser jr ripoff style evil chirdren boss character? seriously iizuka?
....ok he trying again rival shadow ....is prime oh no
@@thepjshow can you react to eggman nega character analysis by Saj man the sonic fan
Kinda funny too bc shadow is wayyy older than sonic in canon
I could see Metal Sonic be compared to Doppelganger. I wish I made it up, but the character in Spider-Man is literally called Doppelganger.
One thing I wish they had done that might have prevented Metal Sonic from becoming stale was after Sonic Heroes, make his defection permanent and have him be a villain on his own. I think that idea has potential for new and interesting stories for Metal Sonic, like him trying to create an army of his own or something.
That is a cool Idea. Have Metal stop trying to please Robotnik by becoming a better version of Sonic and just have him become his own version of Evil.
@@thepjshow Or maybe he gets his hands on Metal Knuckles, a Metal Amy, and Tails Doll and then they become their own team like Team Sonic or Team Dark. Maybe called Team Metal. Anything besides being just Eggman’s favorite Mook that can’t talk for some stupid reason. Btw how do you feel about SEGA mandating that he can’t talk, cause I think it’s just dumb.
My headcanon is that after Heroes, Eggman placed further safeguards in Metal Sonic to prevent him from rebelling again. The Doctor thought this would turn his creation back into a mindless lackey again, and it sure seems like it sometimes. Yet somehow, Metal Sonic still retains consciousness, and is pissed (think of Blade Wolf from Metal Gear Rising). The events of Heroes have become a distant memory and just another adventure to every other character, even Eggman, but not Metal.
Oh you think that you're mad this cool robot has become a mere puppet? Imagine being that puppet, and remembering what it was like to have autonomy. This silenced rage will someday boil over and break the restrictions placed upon him. And when that happens, the real superpower of teamwork will not be enough to stop him.
Sega, hire this person, NOW, that last part alone is more than Metal will ever get right now.
I remember reading the sonic wiki and it citing that, that rebelling apparently being the reason Free Riders happened. And then noting that Eggman suppressed it again. Realistically it would probably happen again sometime in the future...
Honestly, that just kinda made me feel even worse for him. His violent personality almost felt justified. Even then I wondered why does SEGA not ever make a game that addresses Metal Sonic, but still just...keeps him here; it's like modern Squidward. I wonder if that was true, well it'd certainly put Eggman's comment about him not being able to speak actually being a conscious design decision into perspective.
Edit: I think it said even that part of the reason was his increasing fury of constantly losing to a "fake".
@@Jann75 The issue is that Sega basically banished any sort of "out of the box-thinking" to the Shadow Realm.
When it comes to writing instead of making cash, they also straight up pretend like Colors is the first game they made after Sonic 1 and all the games inbetween were instead in some vaguely canon secondary material like some random obscure novel.
When they temporarily gave Metal the ability to absorb hyper go on in Rise of the Wisps, my mind instantly went towards the possibility of how cool it would be if he ended up breaking programming and copied the Wisp data and could just use the abilities at will as long as he has enough stored energy. But eh, with how I know good old buddy Sega over there, they would never go with an idea like that. Because then they would have to think about power balancing.
You know, if becoming a Metal Overlord twice wasn't enough to beat Sonic, and Eggman's robots never seem to beat Sonic either, then Metal Sonic's conclusion should actually be really simple.
To steal some of Eggman's old machinery that led to the cloning of Shadow, the perfect lifeform, and use it on himself, to create a hybrid between biology and machine. Something that transcends even Eggman's imagination...
_A cyborg Sonic,_ if you will.
Combine that with your plotline about Metal being mad about losing his free will and being used like a puppet, and why is Sonic Team out of ideas again?
@@TheAuron32 sega hire this man
Heroes version of Metal Sonic was by far my most favorite because it was MS at his peak in my opinion! Also that transformation scene had me dying! I forgot how overly long that scene was, but I still love how epic it is.😆
Such a shame that he's been treated as nothing more than a side villain! If he's somehow the final boss in Frontiers I'd be happy!
i thought you were talking about microsoft when i read ms
I thought it was metal gear solid at first.
Hot take - Neo Metal Sonic should have been the default design from Heroes onwards. Maybe the leather cape is a bit tacky, but the design is badass as hell
Agreed. Especially since his neo version has more going on. It would also be cool to give metal sonic a modern design like everyone else.
Yes, Neo Metal Sonic is GODLIKE
Agreed or at least an empowered form/last resort when all the chips are down similar to inhibitor rings off Shadow or ESP state Silver.
Neo Metal Sonic can actually talk, that would be nice.
Chaos should be Chaos 6 from now on
My vision of Metal Sonic is Robotnik's greatest invention. Sonic's first actual perfect doppelganger, matching his speed and agility. Being an actual challenge for Sonic.
Okay, maybe Mecha was more of a challenge but he is more of a upgrade than an invention.
Shadow was just Sonic's...well shadow, he really didn't have a purpose, only SA2, Sonic Heroes and Shadow The Hedgehog gave Shadow an actual backstory than just a side story.
Out of all the inventions Robotnik's made I'd say Metal is the best machine he has ever built. Once was a challenger, proving to Sonic that he was the true Sonic, now being just a mini-boss, no meaning or use for him at all.
Mecha wasn't more of a challange? He was never a big point in neither Sonic 2 and 3. At best 2 but even that is forcing it. And in 3 at best he is better for Knuckles. Metal was the main deal for CD after he was done story literally had nothing more to do.
Both Sonic Heroes, The OVA, and the comics fully fleshed out his character and personality, anything after those games he became a nostalgia object with no purpose, nice analysis PJ
So, like Shadow?
@@motherfuckingenterprises7436 like pretty much all the characters at this point. It is baffling as to how this happened.
I'd love to see a Metal-centric story where Metal tries to find a purpose beyond defeating Sonic. Maybe after defeating him- even convincing himself that Sonic is dead- his mission fulfilled, he is free at last to forge a destiny he chooses. Then, at the end, Sonic is revealed to not be dead (big surprise) and Metal has a bittersweet ending where he cannot override his programming (or maybe he can in a true ending) and everything he experienced beforehand is cruelly wiped away.
I think I thought about a small theory while watching the video. That theory being that Eggman purposely resets Metal Sonic after every encounter with Sonic.
After the events of Heroes, Eggman now has control over Metal once again and, being the control freak that he is, ensures his control over him by any means necessary. For most of the series after this game, Metal is mostly silent and just there to race against Sonic, like how he did in CD, his first ever outing. Thanks to the reset, Metal only knows the doctor and his mission, but not his countless failures, which was the cause of his actions in Heroes.
Rather than choosing to scrap Metal, Eggman still uses him because of how close he is to Sonic, both in appearance and ability. The resets just tighten the proverbial leash onto Metal.
I will say that I’m not all too familiar with the games he appears in, since my only involvement is watching people talk about them, so there may be some obvious holes in the theory.
_"I will say that I’m not all too familiar with the games he appears in, since my only involvement is watching people talk about them, so there may be some obvious holes in the theory."_
Welcome to the club, buddy.
Ok, I like it, but in the comics, as Neo, he remembers the stuff from Heroes.
This actually sort of a thing in some comic runs, especially in ones where Metal's sense of will is a plot point
@@dappleofthedualiesperhaps he remembers the events from Heroes cuz Neo Metal Sonic is basically “Metal Sonic Unleashed” (not as in the game Sonic Unleashed,but literally Metal’s true self being unleashed),where Eggman stops resetting Metal and allowing him to go further with his mission.
In the IDW comics it actually explains why they used a illusion Metal Sonic, he was being transformed into Neo Metal Sonic but was completed too late. By the way, I loved this video, also thanks for talking about that comic with Metal Sonic.
The IDW writers were on full damage control and repairs after Forces. Undoing coward Tails, actually explaining where Blaze, Cream, Metal, etc were at, Knux actually hiding the Master Emerald (instead of leaving it out in the open in the canon Forces prequel comic) and more corrections.
@@lynxfresh5214 praise Ian Flynn.
@@lynxfresh5214 I would love to see a Sonic forces IDW adaptation like a prequel to the Sonic IDW comics by Ian Flynn
@@WakerOfTheSky There are actually some Forces-prequel comics! Although, they're kinda short and rushed so you'll have to judge the quality yourself
@@puremltrash2 I think they were more referring to Forces itself being adapted (in other words, rewritten). Since the comics follow directly from Forces, the game's story is technically a prequel to them.
2022:Metal Sonic is so bad,he is ruined 2024 November:Holy crap he is carrying the Eggman team,he is such a badass
I’ve absolutely loved Metal Sonic for years now, he’s my favourite character behind Sonic himself, and it genuinely sucks how much he’s been downplayed into what’s basically just a more dangerous badnik. The idw comics definitely gave me hope that he’d go back to how he once was, especially after Reflections, and given that Ian Flynn is seemingly becoming the new main writer for Sonic, I hope he can incorporate Metal into a game that justifies his inclusion, and properly brings back the character so many people love
You got another thing coming if you think Flynn of all people will ever let another villain get out of Eggman's shadow.
souperr mooriooo
Metal Sonic is my second favorite character in the Sonic franchise (behind Shadow)
@@ToaArcan infinite
@@ToaArcan What do you mean? Ian Flynn has done that tons of times
19:32 Ngl this image is cute, it makes Eggman look like a dad and I find that both funny and adorable
exactlyyy aa its so cute TuT
And now we have Sage post-Frontiers.
Metal Sonic's characterization in one of the Sonic Mania animated shorts where he is rescued by Amy is pretty darn adorable and one of the best things they did with him sinced Heroes and the IDW series.
Just re watched that video and it's very understandable now. Seeing that Metal Sonic has been losing and losing over and over again to a point where he's given up on trying. He no longer sees himself as the real Sonic, and he can't beat Sonic, so he sees himself as a shameless copy.
RIP metal sonic
Here after Death Battle has done more justice for Metal Sonic than SEGA has in TWENTY YEARS
Yeah, that fight felt more like Bowser vs Metal Sonic than Bowser vs Eggman with how much Metal carried the Eggman empire
Metal Sonic was definitely a great rival that unfortunately had his similar traits create more rivals being Knuckles, Shadow and more.
but that knuckles is not bad rival knuckles and metal is better rival
What traits? I can see Shadow being a point of contention because at least he’s also artificial and kinda sorta looks like him but Knuckles and the others? Knuckles himself is a character who got scavenged hard for future characters like Blaze (lonesome serious Emerald guardian who learns about the meaning of friendship) and Silver (naive good-hearted rival who gets tricked by the villain into thinking Sonic is responsible for his home being a mess) and arguably even Sticks (grew up in the wilderness and is driven by instincts) after these traits stopped being used for him. There are better examples, like Johnny from Rush Adventure who is also an Eggman robot who primarily battles Sonic through racing.
@@rainpooper7088 I personally see as 2 main traits their desire at least for while to beat sonic or just seeing sonic as a threat to the things they do.
Metal Sonic- Was programmed to beat/destroy sonic and kept doing till the end of heroes.
Knuckles- Was tricked but saw sonic as threat to his island and the master emerald.
Shadow is pretty easy to explain.
I wasn't thinking about sliver till you brought it up thanks.
Sliver- Was trying to save the future but amused sonic was the one making the future bad.
I haven't seen or played much Sonic rush so I plan on getting more information on that game.
In my opinion, before sonic changed most of their minds expectation (I think Johnny and metal sonic). They saw as a threat and later on after making it was mainly because a friendly rivalry.
I was actually thinking about mentioning the OVA in the comments, and then heard you mention it yourself, the OVA has an amazing depiction of Metal Sonic, and how he willingly sacrificed himself at the end, stopping Sonic from saving him and saying “Sorry, there can only be one Sonic the Hedgehog…”
Metal sonic was my favorite character for the longest time. But over time, I've realized that I don't want him in the games anymore. If he's just there to be there for sales, and have metal sonic fans have hope he'll do something, I don't want him there. Either do something with him, and treat him like a character, or don't have him in the game in the first place. It sucks for me to say that, but it needs to be said
I want metal sonic the character, not metal sonic the jobber
The movies might make him like the prowler from Spiderverse
@@rickyrackey7930 I can just imagine Metal stalking the main characters wherever they go (maybe camouflaged since we're going by sci-fi tech?) and now I just want that so badly.
@@lukasruston8618 Also, make him a bit like Sabertooth from the X-Men movies in which he has no dialogue and just actions.
Remember how Metal Sonic was absent from Sonic X? Personally I was fine with him being a race rival & cameoing the way he did in Sonic Adventure. The 2010s for Sonic were just crap in general as far as the games were concerned.
idw got you there
I remember growing up on Metal Sonic. All the drawings, all the badass moments, just for Sega to overuse him for “Marketing Values”. I truly love what IDW did with “Reflections”. It shows that Metal is self-aware in this scenario. Him realizing that he’s copy. The fact that there aren’t any moments of dialogue, and just the imagery can set up a good example for telling an awesome story. It made me feel bad for him, I think he dipped his finger into the Metal Virus, hoping it might’ve transformed him into something…different, but to no avail. Him walking away so solemnly is a reminder of that.
...also the fact he can't talk outside of the Neo form. (If we consider IDW canon.)
If Metal comes back in Frontiers I think it would be cool if he was voiced by Ryan again since he did such an amazing job in Heroes, kinda like how they got Vegeta's Ocean dub voice actor Brian Drummond for Copy Vegeta in Dragon Ball Super.
That would be awesome.
finally someone said those names together so i can spout crap. one is ryan drummond, and the other is brian drummond. i waited years to question why they sound similar. you have fulfilled one of my purposes.
Modern Day Metal Sonic should be Voiced By Roger!
I shit you not, the recent Death Battle Episode make Metal Sonic cooler than he has been in canon for years
Sonic X Shadow generations has metal overlord
What an awesome analysis of Metal Sonic, I really wish that many of the characters, including Metal, get improved portrayals in the future, but sadly, their former glory doesn’t seem to be coming back soon.
I'm glad you enjoyed the video! Hopefully with Ian Flynn writing the stories in the games now, he can be redeemed. Or he could be the main villain of Sonic the Hedgehog 4 (the movie).
@@thepjshow Honestly, one of the things that I really want to see is some three way interaction between Metal Sonic, Knuckles, and Shadow. All 3 characters were rivals/enemies of Sonic considered his equals, while having interesting interactions with powerful gemstones, like the Chaos Emeralds, Master Emerald and Phantom Ruby. The possibilities are fascinating, as all three could be considered equals to each other in different ways while having personalities and abilities that have great variety.
OR DOES IT??
The text on the thumbnail should've been
"From overpowered to overused"
That is actually a really good one.
I can imagine Eggman being scared or paranoid to include Metal Sonic into his plans in Forces after what he was capable of in the events of Heroes. Opting for a mindless duplicate than the unstable original, although he could have attempted to build a new metal sonic to aid infinite or maybe he was finished with Metal Sonics in general
The IDW (more specifically, Neo Metal Sonic) comics state that Eggman was actually converting Metal into a Neo form from Heroes, and I guess using the phantom copies to still have Metal Sonics out there. Neo was finished after the world was saved tho.
There's a theory metal sonic is a roboticized sonic from the future. Since if Eggman could create something like metal sonic, why wouldn't he make all of his armies like him?
@@dappleofthedualies Oh yeah that makes sense to use the phantom copies while upgrading and reworking any bit of Metal Sonic so he wouldn't go rogue again. Guess he wasn't completely turn off from the idea of Neo Metal Sonic
@@NintendoMeister2260 Eggman sees Metal Sonic as a work of art in the IDW comics, so he probably sees it as something that can't be replicated like the average egg bot but only refined. I guess the closest we got are the previous versions of Metal such as Mecha Sonic or the phantom copies, or maybe Eggman just has too much pride
@@dappleofthedualies then why hasn’t neo metal shown up in any other games?
I’m gonna give the sonic mania episodes some credit for metal sonic. While they didn’t really use that whole rival thing for sonic, I really like how they made him actually threatening and pretty cool.
The Amy Christmas special was also pretty good for Metals characterization at least to me, in that he gets essentially depressed because he failed to beat sonic yet again and Amy has to pick him back up again
Honestly I'm just glad that they kept him silent. It's a small trait of his that really keeps his character cold and imposing.
That being said, I can't wait for Chris Pratt to voice him 10 years from now.
A Sonic CD movie would be cool asf ngl. I feel like they would start producing it after the Sonic the Hedgehog 3 movie comes out, because there already is a teaser for that movie when they showed Shadow.
I really wanted Metal to be in Sonic 2, but I have no complains about how the movie turned out to be
@@fellascallmethedrink They should make him like the Terminator from the first two films in terms of presence and terror.
@@fellascallmethedrink imagine a movie with the same animation as the intro
After seeing this comment (Man the Chris Pratt casting is such a mistake) and more importantly the responses I would honestly really like to see metal sonic show up in the next sonic movie because they've done a really good job on the two that they've made so far. Might give him a redemption of character, and if not we know his fate is sealed.
Metal Sonic: "I've been reduced to just a boss fight for nostalgia bait"
Meta Knight and Galacta Knight: "First time?"
Honestly, the Forces inclusion makes some sense to me, since Metal is already Eggman's strongest creation, and the Phantom Ruby can mass-produce that and upgrade said copies endlessly with no real effort. It beats having only one Metal with no upgrades. That said I admit I don't know why Metal wasn't there, aside from Eggman maybe considering him obsolete at the time.
Agreed
only excuse I can think off is Robotnik didn't want to risk Metal going rogue again and stealing the ruby for his own ends, we've seen what Metal can do when he decides not to follow orders, would you risk that happening with the Phantom Ruby? I know I wouldn't.
But they might be dumber
@@TheAuron32 could also explain why he's weaker post-Heroes, I'm willing to bet Robotnik limited his power levels to keep him obedient.
@@ryanchua6520 I mean eggman already got betrayed so many times, of course he wouldn't pass the opportunity to limit one of his best lackeys's power
Honestly I agree. Metal Sonic has always been my favorite and while I didn't mind his Sonic 4 appearances, Sonic Forces is where it really it the fan for me. I remember going through that boss fight on the bridge and thinking "Where is the real Metal Sonic?". However I have high hopes for Metal. If Frontiers goes well maybe Sega will keep Ian Flynn writing for future Sonic games. If there is one thing Archie and IDW have taught me about Ian Flynn it's that he can write Metal Sonic like no other.
Metal Sonic is a character I prefer to be mostly silent, I feel his actions show his character the most
Most of his actions alone show how much he despises and wants to surpass Sonic, especially in the Metal Virus arc in the IDW comics in where he touches the Metal Virus and it simply slips off of him while he on looks at Sonic trying to speed of the Metal Virus, he’s just a copy and he’s coming to terms with that. Yet he still wants to overcome Sonic
I guess me and you have some similar views on Metal Sonic
I always viewed Metal Sonic having a voice as a representation of his free will, mainly because in the games where he doesn't have a voice, or when his dialogue is more robotic, he seems to not have that much free will. While I do agree that Metal Sonic being as chattery as Sonic would completely ruin the character, I do think that he should be allowed to talk sometimes.
Nah metal Sonic having a voice in his transformed form shows the scariness of his evolution because the robot suddenly has become sentient and has its own free will.
I agree his original form shouldnt talk cuz its just a robot but the talking adds to his transformation and serves as such a good contrast from normal programmed robot to an actual living thing with emotions. Thats scary which is why it works
I think the best thing about Metal Sonic is always that you might know everything that he's going to do, but that won't help you because he knows everything that you're going to do. Strange, isn't it?
At the first time when I saw Metal Sonic I fought,"This is gonna be a 2D character without personalitty" and was shocked when they were able to make a robot with actual personalitty
You did however predict the future except for the 2D part
0:11 the disrespect
I really do feel bad for Metal Sonic. After he's been overused, I'm glad he might be getting a break in Frontiers. He definitely deserves it. Though for Forces, I always like to imagine that Eggman didn't want Metal Sonic there because he was actually scared of Metal. He remembered everything that happened and that if Metal Sonic betrayed him, he could take the Phantom Ruby and transform into what he did in Knuckles and the Chaotix. Or even worse, Metal Overlord. And I can also excuse the Generations thing as well, due to that being Classic Metal Sonic. You can tell he has shorter and stubby limbs. So he has to be the Classic version. But the Sonic 4 appearances always confused me and the Mania boss fight always felt lazy to me (Still is a great game, don't get me wrong). But Metal Sonic is still the best rival in my opinion for Sonic. This may be a bit of a hot take but I prefer him being the rival over Shadow. I just hope that one day, Sega can see his true potential and stop using him as a game seller. Good luck to the metallic hedgehog.
If that's the case, I don't understand why he was scared of Metal when he took away all of the reasons he feared him
@Jamie Gioca. Well, there's another reason he might not have been in the game. Maybe he just wasn't finished being rebuilt. That's the only other reason. He wasn't as finished as even Sonic 06 was.
IDW actually provides an explanation for this. In those comics, it's revealed that the real Metal Sonic was being upgraded into Neo Metal Sonic to ensure that Sonic wouldn't stand a chance, although by the time he was finished being upgraded, it was too late. Sonic and his friends had already won.
.
Yeah same, he's a much better rival than Shadow.
Metal sonic is one of my favorite characters. I still like Metal sonic, a perfect enemy, he is able to keep up and fight! Thanks for the video!
I'm glad you like it
Actually, on the Eggman bit, it can also be seen as feeding into his ego. He built it, so he may have an inflated sense of how dangerous Metal was.
True
Also want to throw in the already collected data since CD and whatever eggman decided to program to metal up until heros
Meaning that eggman may have taken a lot of data from the sonic 3 & K era
Anyone else get the feeling MORØ watched this video?
That would explain why metal sonic got to be so awesome in that fight
Another thing I love about Metal Sonic is he’s also a representative of how Eggman sees Sonic, that’s his interpretation of him, cold, angry, red eyed with a gaping void of a monoeye, spikes, and a jet engine for a chest, I like how these evil metal robot copies of characters are a subsequent reflection of how their creator views them, like Toc-Man from Pac-Man World having big sharp teeth as the ghosts from their perspective see Pac-Man as a hungry monster ready to devour, character design details should be able to convey such wordless conclusions and narrative characterization
I doubt eggman sees sonic as a cold angry person
Am sure this is just stretching it
I know he *very* rarely gets any voiced dialogue, but it's always felt like a missed opportunity to me to not give Metal Sonic the same voice actor as the real Sonic but filtered, to further emphasize the metallic copy aspect.
Also, I saw that Morbius edit you bastard.
It's sad that characters like Metal Sonic and Shadow were ruined by lazy writing, although I do have hope that the newer games can improve that.
Also hoping we get Metal Sonic in the Sonic movies, maybe as a rival built by Eggman to beat Sonic. Just a thought but nevertheless, good video.
I think metal sonic in the idw comics is pretty good.... In the first arc that is and certain scenes littered around but i think some of the moments were he's underutilized is do to mandates to keep him in a comfortable plave which in a character arc driven comic is bad
@@nolanlong1979 Yeah the idw comics are pretty good. They usually get the characters pretty well.
I was REALLY hoping for that instead of Shadow...they really screwed up there. Since they gave up Shadow instead of Metal Sonic, and Jim Carrey is retiring before Metal Sonic was designed, we can't get him in the movies anymore.
??
@@Turtle22312 I imagine the movie verse of Metal Sonic taking cues from Sabertooth from the X-Men movies and the Prowler from Spiderverse.
metal sonic is like, the perfect foil for sonic. it's pretty much eggman's greatest mockery, and argument supporting his wit. the hutzpah to make a metal mirror of your own worst enemy, and make them better than what they imitate. imagine a clone of you that does everything you do better, but also stands for everything you hate about the world.
also, the design is cold as fuck. i love shadow, but metal sonic is just ice cold.
The IDW comic also explained why Metal wasn't actually present in Forces. Eggman was basically running updates on Metal so he could become Neo Metal Sonic without rebelling against Eggman, which worked. The updates didn't finish until Forces was over and in the beginning of the IDW comic Metal's goal was now to take over the world so that he could hand it over to his master on a silver platter.
Sounds like a DLC that would've went well...
I found an old comic about Metal Sonic being Sonic from another dimension thats a bitter failure.
Metal Sonic's flanderization reminds me of Shadow's. Both were once good characters early on, but as the years went by, they had no fuckin' clue what to do with them. And then resorted to simplifying them to certain traits that make them shadows of themselves.
That's the Sonic franchise for you
16:05 I’m betting Metal Sonic (the real one) is on some sort of training arc, doing his best to get stronger so that he can defeat Sonic to prove he’s the real one. Infinite saw him as just another villain, and Eggman probably overlooked Metal’s reasons for what he did entirely. Infinite just summoned Sonic’s past enemies, and to him, Metal was just another antagonist. That’s why I think he showed up the way he did in Forces. I also want to thank you. I started with the newer Sonic games, and didn’t know of Metal’s crazy backstory, so thank you for rectifying that
Can we just have metal be a real threat like in Heroes and ill even say IDW.
Or like the mania cartoons
Or the archie comics
Yep
the reflection story makes me cry. seriously though great video! I love metal sonic and I really want him to be done justice soon!
Since you mentioned the comics, I like how they explained why Metal Sonic, despite being willing to betray Eggman in the past for his own ends, has become more loyal to him since Heroes because Eggman stopped treating him like a mere robot and more like a son. That makes the dynamic between IDW Metal and Eggman interesting because they might be the only beings that the other truly cares about… if only the games could explore that to make game Metal as fleshed out as IDW Metal.
I hope that he becomes a as good as idw metal and I have good felling because flin (don't know how to write his name sorry) writes the new games so yeah good day
2:17 It took me some time to realise, but the name "collision chaos" is quite literal and the rings in the walls were put on purpose as far as i know
In conclusion, Metal Sonic wasn't just another robot, it was something more
What the next game should be:
-Eggmans robots evolve and terrorise
-Sonic hunts down Eggman
-Eggman boss
-Shadow showed to be mind-controlled
-Few more areas
-Shadow 'final' boss
-METAL SONIC PLOT TWIST WITH EVEN MORE LORE
I love Metal Sonic, I recently replayed Sonic Heroes, and I consider this was the peak for Metal, but after 2003 there was no idea for him. Notice how in Dark Age he wasn't in games, and then in 2010's was just put in there for no reason with no purpose. After Heroes there's so much potential, like for example, they could have made story arc about Metal based on Amazo from Justice League/Justice League Unlimited, a artificial metal being that was created by super-villain for copying heroes abilities, and then he grows sentient and even starts to becomes more human and a good guy. I'm sad that we will never got this kind of story. Emerl from Sonic Battle is the closest we got for after-Heroes Metal.
I don’t really see Metal becoming a good guy that’s not in his character, he’s made to destroy Sonic plus he’s personality is too cold to become good that would be way out of character for him,
but it would be nice to see Metal have plans more smarter and intelligent than Robotnik as in Heroes if you think about it he’s plan was actually pretty smart he steals the characters abilities and got them all together to destroy them.
@@Skye2993 Well that's also a good way to go. No matter which path Metal could have choose, he was wasted unfortunately.
@@thehedgehognerd Yup unfortunately
12:01 ah yes my favorite sonic game morbius with my favorite catchphrase "its morbin time."
Great analysis as always, PJ! Metal Overlord is one of the most epic and badass final bosses in the whole series.
16:09 why would metal sonic come along.His meaning is to out play sonic in his own game . If he done it with some one else it just wouldn’t feel like a real victory. It’s not him who was better than sonic, it’s infinite and him who are better then sonic
You just keep surprising me with how accurately you hit the nail on the head with these character essay videos. Sonic Team has neglected and forgotten to actually write these characters for far too long now, and it's a damn shame. I never would have become a Sonic fan as a kid if these characters were as empty back then as they are now. I really hope that Frontiers will be the end of this dark age at least story-wise, and we can start to look forward to these characters being actual characters again.
I think its clear that Sega has no idea what to do with Metal Sonic. He's clearly popular enough that people want to see more of them but they kind of wrote themselves into a corner. Betraying Eggman should alienate Metal from him and it would force Metal into being a separate faction. But that's probably too much of a lore leap than Sega is comfortable with, but there's no way to really justify why Metal would willingly go back to being a minion of Eggman. So they didn't bother justifying it and just made it happen.
Thing is, his protrayal in Heroes is a big part of why so many people love Metal Sonic. They want to see more of him being so driven to beat Sonic he'd do anything to beat him, even if it means betraying everyone, setting up an elaborate plan to copy everyone's data and turn himself into a monster. But you can't do that every single time, that would be silly. Metal Sonic's struggles takes way too much limelight onto himself as well, so unless he is supposed to be the focus of the game it doesn't really make a lot of sense to even go into it.
The obvious answer would be to make Metal Sonic a more rare character that only shows up to make a big impact. Except, you know, he's too damn popular and everyone wants more Metal Sonic.
I think this isn't a problem just for Metal Sonic, it's for just about almost any Sonic character. The team behind Sonic's story didn't understand why we loved these characters, so they just pop up randomly for fan service. What I think they should've done was go back and do an analysis on the characters to prove why we loved them a lot and wanted them back properly. This is why I'm glad Ian Flynn is writing the story for Frontiers since he's a long time Sonic fan, published Sonic comics and understands the characters.
Frontiers already looks like ass lmao, the gameplay looks so clunky and slow and the bosses look dumb and boring.
Cream hasn't appeared in an actual game since Generations & I would argue they don't even bring characters back for fanservice with a few exceptions like Chaos. The people who have been writing the games during the 2010s had no actual knowledge of the series, which is why there were so many problems.
@@WaterKirby1994 that's also my problem with the 2010s writers, they were hired with no knowledge of the characters at all. That bothers me a lot too
@@fellascallmethedrink gameplay wise yes, this is about the writing though
@@phantom-X2086 Decade of damage, it legit hurts my soul and we wasted a History Celebration Game with these imbeciles, Generations honestly could've been much better....
Sega should have made it so if you lose during the metal madness/overlord boss fight, there’s a short cutscene of metal taking the chaos emeralds and going super, while declaring himself not only the real sonic, but the superior one, before heading off to find a new purpose.
I’ve loved Metal Sonic since Adventures but it’s sad to see him reduced to a generic boss
I loved this video! Thanks a lot for making it!
Glad you enjoyed it!
@@thepjshow I hope Jeff Fowler can do the Blue Butcher some justice. Yeah, that’s his nickname that I came up with.
SEGA and Sonic Team's problem is that they know how to write amazing villains, but they don't know how to maintain them.
Mephiles is arguably one of the best, also only made a single canon appearance.
Sage, a great anti-hero, so far only been once.
Sage will either be a Mephiles and die an amazing antagonist or become a shell of her former self, a "Shadow" of her old self if you will.
My favorite journey for him was Shard. He works shockingly well as a redemption villian to hero.
I wanna copy and paste an idea for Metal Sonic and how he should have been the main villain of Forces.
I think each of those prisons should be guarded by a version of Metal Sonic.
For example, a prison near Green Hill could be guarded by Silver Sonic from Sonic 2, one could be guarded by Mecha Sonic, and Neo Metal Sonic, and so on. All of them are hooked up to a central network, a sort of hive mind setup where they will all adapt to your play style as you defeat each one. It would encourage variety with the Wispons being crafted. Then the final prison to take over is the real Metal Sonic and he’s white and more advanced than any of the forms since he’s powered by a version of a super form but still distorted in some twisted kind of pure hatred like Dark Super Sonic from Sonic X. Like all of them will be optional to fight, and if you don’t go for the prisons and just go for the missions, then you fight all the Metal Sonics you didn’t destroy in each of the prisons. Sorta like BOTW with having to fight the Ganon forms and all. However, this version of Metal is really dipping into the existential nightmare of his very being that the IDW comics touch on and him going to huge lengths to truly show what he can do with his idea of carrying out his reason for existing.
Metal needs to be remade honestly. I love him so much but like every other character in the series he’s just been butchered over the years. I think bringing something back like mecha sonic will work
zavok and surge he ruin
Metal Sonic doesnt need to be remade, they make him quiet and not do much, he just needs to do more stuff especially ones that are meaningful and have dialogue, Free Riders even has him the final boss and disguised as a lesser Eggman robot while faking being pathetic so nobody is aware he is even there or Metal Sonic.
Make him like Metallix in SMBZ
well idw made him pretty badass again
Mecha Sonic is already back so nah
I know the fan comics are just that, but i would honestly love if sega actually decided to have metal be a big brother to sage.
I feel like free riders originally was going to be more focused on Metal sonic.With how simple the story is and how a lot of character dialogues feel out of character, Metal's sudden reveal at the end and the fact that he can still shape shift,collect data and how he keeps the collected data for himself(disobeying eggman) I feel like they changed the story last minute to fit the new voice cast and the tone of the meta era. I also think the theme song fits metal sonic especially the crush 40 and the beta version with lyrics like "felt so refrained, felt so constrained-but now I'm breaking out " and "Wants to be free, wants to be me, want to be everything that you see, wants to be heard, wants to be known, wants to be high". What do you think? I found this out from a comment on the beta version of free and can't stop speculating lol
Cool
Yeah, that is what I think too. They probably rewrote the lyrics when the story turned out to barely have Metal in it.
I think the problem is that Metal Sonic doesn’t really serve the purpose as a rival. Considering he has a mental life crisis now. Idk what they’re planning. Maybe they’ll start making him nihilistic like Mephiles or The End? Who knows.
I love how in the comics Metal Sonic acts more like a son for Eggman than a simple robot creation. I hope he eventually encounter Belle.
I personally feel that Neo Metal Sonic should practically be seen as a completely different character to normal Metal Sonic, considering how different the two are.
really good analysis as always, I really agree with the sentiment that metal shouldn’t be in the sonic media unless they actually need him there (this goes for knuckles too) because metal being overused makes him less cool, which is definitely not (at least i hope not) what sonic team wants
So basically the takeaway here is that as the years go by, Sonic Team forgets what characterization was written for their characters.
16:01, yeah you are right. Why make an illusion of a weaker version of Metal Sonic when you already had the original? Even sonic points this out, as if SEGA knew what they did with Metal was stupid.
Probably cause the original would take time to rebuilt after being defeated.
Not only that, but if infinite can make illusions, why didn't he make perfect Chaos or metal overlord?
Probably some kind of poorly explained limitation. @@Tara191
Arent we gonna talk about the Morbius sonic game at 12:03 ?
I agree with most of this video, Metal Sonic's potential has been absolutely wasted in the series more recent games...
but I have to say I actually liked Metal Sonic in Sonic 4 and *kinda* liked him in Sonic Rivals. (But not really.)
(I have a lot to say about Sonic 4, but not so much Rivals. Regardless there's a decent amount of text below, so it's a bit of a read.)
In Sonic 4, him destroying badniks in his stages and constantly showing up to challenge Sonic on various fronts in the game and not just races made him feel less like a lackey or throwaway boss fight to me and more like a vengeful rival who was acting on his own. One who was more desperate and more determined than ever to beat Sonic after failing to in Sonic CD.
Metal Sonic is fought 5 times in Sonic 4, and each time he tries something different. The first time he tries to overpower Sonic with his newfound power gained from the artifact he uncovered on his own in Lost Labyrinth. (which has the same glowing effect as Super Sonic in the game. Even Super Sonic can't damage Metal Sonic in this state)
The second time he tries to shoot down the Tornado from a distance with his own all new aircraft. (with Sonic mostly focusing on avoiding Eggman's aerial fleet to chase down the flying fortress)
The third time he challenges Sonic and Tails to a aerial showdown.
The fourth time he tries to team up with Eggman and perform similar tag team attacks that Sonic and Tails use during the game.
The final time, after all else fails, he finally challenges Sonic to another race, a rematch essentially, only to fail once again.
*Essentially in Sonic 4, Metal Sonic tries to outdo Sonic on every front, not just raw speed, but combat, aerial skill and Tag team attacks*
This is exactly what I wish the series had done more with Metal Sonic, it's just a shame it's in Sonic 4, as Sonic 4 absolutely sucks at conveying any story without dialogue unlike the Classic games.
To me, Metal Sonic in Sonic 4 actually perfectly sets up the villain he becomes in Sonic Heroes, in Sonic 4 Metal Sonic pushes his normal body to the very limit, trying countless different approaches to best Sonic, and fails every single time. I can easily see this furthering his obsession with defeating Sonic, to the point he alters his own body beyond recognition and is willing to overthrow Eggman and create his own plans in Sonic Heroes.
*Every Sonic game after that though, screws up Metal Sonic and uses him as a throwaway boss in the exact same setup every single time. It's so stale.*
Now Sonic Rivals, the only reason I like what they did to Metal Sonic there, is because I like to think Eggman would have put stricter restrictions on Metal Sonic after Heroes, which prevent him from acting as independently as before. Can't have your most powerful robot turning on you on a whim after all, but at the same time he's too powerful to simply never use again. But this is admittedly just my own take on Metal Sonics lack of personality or purpose in that game.
To close off, I think Metal Sonic has just been used the same way in too many games now, and he's never used in creative ways. Perhaps if they gave him an actual story again, he'd be better, but I'd honestly rather see someone else get a random throwaway boss fight for a change if that's all these old villains are worth. (But oh well, I'll take Metal Sonic over a Zavok Boss any day of the week, no matter how disappointing it is.)
I definitely agree with you with metal sonic needing to be more of a character rather than a lackey. Heck, why not even have an entire game deticated to him.
I think I know why Metal Sonic was created as an illusion by Infinite.
Maybe Eggman thought since the original failed to beat Sonic so many times, and since Infinite had the power to create illusions, and he COULD defeat Sonic, that maybe he could create a better and stronger Metal Sonic, but as an illusion.
Or maybe because Eggman doesn't want everything that happened in Sonic Heroes to happen again.
I always thought Metal was being repaired/upgraded in Eggman’s workshop.
Metal was being rebuilt and turned back into neo metal
I would have loved it if metal sonic had a boss fight where he is tough as balls, testing everything in your moveset by matching it blow for blow, along with a few extra moves just to be evil.
I feel that Metal Sonic Needs a new Look. Make him Sharper and more Metal Lookin, he doesn’t look that cool with his modern design.
I have to disagree his design looks perfect he just need to make more appearances, better writing and a power up.
Yeah the only thing new about his modern design is he has a pelvis 💀
@@Mau.jpg0761 His proportions don’t look right, even for a sonic character. His head is way too big, his Quills are too smooth around the edges and he should have darker colors.
@@Terminal_Apotos ah ok when i look at it your right he does need some touch ups.
It feels like Metal Sonic went from a robot nemesis to a living Stardust Speedway reference too. Last time he had an original theme was Sonic 4, but even that game had a SS remix lol.
Every time he appeared recently was just to reference the race in Stardust Speedway (Sonic Generations, Sonic 4, Sonic Mania, Sonic Forces, Team Sonic Racing, Sonic at the Olympic games...) Even in Colors Ultimate, which didn't have a SS remix, he is just there to race you...
That's why i think Metal Sonic peaked in OVA and Heroes. Idk much about the comics btw...
Also slight correction i think Metal Sonic KAI is Metal Sonic's name in the entirety of Knuckles Chaotix, not just his final transformation.
Maybe I’m in the minority here, but I still enjoy seeing him in things like colors ultimate and generations where his lack of character is understandable as he’s just an extra thing. Forces kinda gets a pass for me too since it wasn’t even him to begin with (though that begs the question as to why phantom Zavok actually had character when compared to every other phantom). I do hope we get another game with Metal Sonic as the main villain, though. He’s great in IDW and I’m hoping that translates over to the games with Ian now doing the writing.
1:32 you actually meet Amy first in Palmtree panic in the end of act 1
Once you are done with the character analyzes (or if you want to take a break from them), it would be cool if you did a tier list of all the Sonic games and discuss their pros and cons (you mention tidbits throughout your videos but it would be nice to have it all in one).
i always loved that part at 6:08, when vector rescues eggman, eggman gives him the "sup" nod
I'd be interested to see how the films handle him. I'd tease him as a Thanos-level villain. It actually would be pretty easy (in theory) since he has so many forms.
Movie 1: Sonic
Movie 2: Team Hero
Movie 3: Team Dark + a few hints of Black Doom
Movie 4: Amy and Tikal's planet (mystic ruins?) needs help from a shapeshifting metal menace, team hero are teenagers (except for "I'm 5 what is this?" Tails) and go help out. SA1 with proto-Metal Sonic instead of Chaos. Black doom revives metal sonic at the end.
Movie 5: Metal sonic comes to Green hills. Sonic CD. Introduce Blaze and Silver in Dark Future? (possible Team Future- Blaze (speed), Silver (flying), and abducted-and-rescued Amy (power) )
Movie 6: Sonic Heroes. (Team Future replacing Team Rose)
Movie 7: Metal sonic teams with Black Doom to be the villian of Sonic 06.
It’d be cool. At this rate because shadows been confirmed, I really hope we don’t see the bio lizard because it’s kind of lame. Metal is a way cooler villain
A bit surprised you left out the Sonic Mania clip where Amy takes pity on him. It's the most sympathy Metal has gotten outside the comics since Heroes.
Though, if we want to push things, maybe Eggman uses Metal at every opportunity to avoid another Omega situation.
I wish you talked about other versions of Metal Sonic like Archie or Fleetway. Fleetway my opinion may be the best interpretation of the character. This is still great video
Metal Sonic in Death Battle: 🗿
Fr
Oh nice. Appreciate the shout out.
We're completely agreed on Metal. Here's hoping Ian Flynn fixes him and/or he's the main big bad for Sonic 3.
I think the only good thing about Metal Sonic in Forces is the music when you fight him. It sounds very cool. But that's it.
Sonic: *tries to save Metal Sonic from being melted down in a magma pit*
Metal Sonic: *slaps Sonic's hand away* "THERE... IS ONLY ONE SONIC."
Yo I remember that 😄
heres an idea:
sonic heroes gets a remake. this time with a bonus episode after beating the true ending where you are metal sonic.
this is framed like a prequel. it opens with eggman writing a letter (the same letter shown in team sonics story, showing he was indeed going to do everything as intended) and metal sonic is a three-in-one, able to shapeshift into the forms of tails doll and metal knuckles to act as flight and power.
the first mission has metal sonic carry out a routine mission in stage 1 for eggman. only... he stumbles upon something that gives him sentience by the end. then he singlehandedly takes eggmans entire fleet down, fighting many of the same battles as in the vanilla game, but with the real eggman furiously trying to get metal back in line. as the game goes on, metal gets more and more unique sections which are much harder than the vanilla ones. along the way he sets up the conflict, disguising himself as sonic to take cheese and froggy, tipping rouge off about a secret weapon that would fetch a high price (being shadow and omega).
finally, once metal destroys egg emperor, eggman begins to laugh. one final trump card: he explodes, revealing to have been a copy all this time. while the true eggman was piloting the egg overlord - which looks similar to metal sonic. metal sonic screams that he is the true sonic, having lost his mind due to the new power source driving him mad, revealed to have been a shard of the master emerald. he transforms into neo metal sonic, and once eggman is finally defeated, metal sonic takes complete control of his armies, unable to bring himself to kill his creator, he locks him up. but eggman was able to come up with components to send communications to the chaotix. and thus, sonic heroes begins.
I have a soft spot for Metal Sonic. Even if I haven't played very many of the games that he's in, CD was my introduction to the Sonic series.
Metal Sonic sees Sonic as the fake. Where have I seen that before? Oh, that’s right! Dark Pit sees Pit as the clone