Swiss Prototype von Steiger Auto-Ejecting Revolvers
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- Опубліковано 18 лют 2018
- / forgottenweapons
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In the 1870s, Switzerland was looking for a new military revolver, and they were particularly interested in finding a system which would allow faster reloading than the standard loading gate and manual ejection rod. A military veteran and gunsmith by the name of von Steiger in Thun submitted a design which automatically ejected an empty case each time the gun was fired. This did dramatically increase the rate of fire (one Swiss officer in the trials managed 10 rounds in 20 seconds), but at the price of complexity and durability.
The first series of von Steiger revolvers were in 9mm, followed a few years later by a redesign to the 10.4mm cartridge which would ultimately be adopted in 1878. We have six examples to look at today, form prototype #2 through one of the trials pistols in 10.4mm. Ultimately the Abadie system was chosen in favor of von Steiger's guns. Abadie's gun was not as fast as von Steiger's to reload, but it was still faster than the traditional system and did not sacrifice as much cost or durability. It would prove to be quite successful, and was adopted by many European militaries in the late 1800s.
Thanks to Kessler Auktionen AG for letting me film some of their guns!
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"This requires a screwdriver..." "...but fortunately all of our Swiss soldiers are issued pocket knives that contain a screwdriver, among other things."
They probably would've slip a gun in the pocket knife if they could.
If you think about it, a screwdriver is a knife with the blade at the tip and a knife is a screwdriver with the blade on the side
Never thought about how that's probably partly due to their complex field strip guns
For a country that never goes to war, the Swiss make great guns. Bless them.
Never seak war out but always be prepared for one.
The land of the banks surely is interested to stay neutral at all costs.
Gihaal and pen knives
ua-cam.com/video/Fx8yCd4mDBY/v-deo.html
Break action is better!
I'm a complicated man. I see 'Swiss Prototype', I design a magnificently machined and frighteningly expensive clockwork mechanism to click the like button.
Of course someone would find a way to pump as much time, skill, and money into something that would literally explode.
Mr Rube Goldberg
Gay meme fam
Are you german?
@@IIIVI Nein.
Actually the safety on the third version is in keeping with military hand gun philosophy of use of the time. Hand guns were largely used by officers and cavalry at the time, The main weapon of officers was a saber which was used right handed for both signaling troops and combat. This means the only hand they had free was the left, hence they were trained to shoot pistols left handed.
As a lefty thats great for me
It was a police concept in the ‘50s to use the club in your right hand and the pistol was to be used in an emergency in your left hand.
Double action AND auto ejecting ??
One of coolest I've seen. Great video.
Break action is better!
Why not all 3? When all the cartridges are gone, you top break it and load them back in
@@Doctor.R_LP that's what I was thinking, why wasn't this pursued further? An auto-ejecting revolver would be sweet, especially if either it breaks open or the cylinder swings out for reloading.
@@jacqirius and is more expensive or complicated than an auto ejecter?
I'm always excited to see if he will say "I'm Ian" or "I'm Ian McCullom"
They're actually two different people.
depends how ethnic hes feeling iv seen a vid he drunk whiskey in lol he has a funny accent for a celt lol
Exactly! You made my day!
Literally what I thought when clicked on this video!! :)
It's the little things like that which make life worth living.
Dirty Harry "I know what you're thinking: Did he fire five shots or only four?" Well, to tell you the truth, in all this excitement, I've kinda lost track myself. But being this is a 10.4mm Steiger, the most complicated handgun in the world, and would blow your head clean off, you've got to ask yourself one question: 'Do I feel lucky?' Well, do ya, punk?...Punk "You shot five I can see all the empty brass" Dirty Harry "sh*t"
fastmongrel Wouldn’t you have to dryfire after the last shot to eject them all?
Good point
It would work. If he fired 4, there would be 3 empty cases on the ground, one empty still in the cylinder and one live ready to shoot. If he fired 5, there would be 4 empty cases on the ground and one empty in the cylinder.
fastmongrel , just gonna beat ya with it now
😂
The screwdriver/sideplate/widge/ lanyard ring is what I espect from the Swiss
I'm only wondering where are the toothpick and the corkscrew.
The cleaning rod could be made into a cork screw
I was thinking that of course a Swiss officer would be carrying a screwdriver because they'd also have a Swiss Army knife, but it turns out that they were first introduced in the 1890s, so too late for this gun.
I am sure there was something like that before Victorianox got the contract
+vsGoliath Of course. We like to overthing everything. It makes us so great in... well... making chocolate, cheese and watches? ;)
I wish someone would make a modern take of this design. I'd buy one for sure
You say that, but when someone brings one to market for $1,500+ will you still buy one for sure?
I'm not so sure that this wouldn't be successful in a quality reproduction, even at a $1500 price point. Manufacture it in a more conventional revolver caliber, and it might get some headway in cowboy action shooting. A lot of those guys drop similar money into custom tuned single actions anyway. Considering how popular European things were in the U.S. in the 19th century, I can't see why this wouldn't be allowed for match play.
$1,500 for a gun is not that bad of a price I probably have 20 guns that are a thousand or more. My carry gun was 1600
Break action is better!
$1500 wouldn't be an unjust price and yes, alot of us enthusiasts have no problem saving for unique or historic firearms.
I love the designs from the 1870s to the 1920s. The mechanical innovations, while not always perfect, are ingenious attempts to solve various problems. Many people saw the same problem, but went about solving it in different ways.
Genius! What craftsmanship for the time!
But if you load it fully, the first shot will eject a live round.
Angry Yogbuscus Yup! Load one..skip..maybe..
Actually, the "finger" enters on the cartridge that has been just fired when it rotates towards it.
The Stoned Videogame Nerd Say I've loaded all five Chambers and prepare to fire: either single or double action, the cylinder rotates as the hammer cocks, the extractor slips under the rim of what used to be my 12-o-clock chambered round, and firing pops it out. Live round ejected, and no demonstrated means to avoid it besides loading only four rounds.
We are even better then the germans.....and we are swiss and not germans. Keep that in your minds.
The americans are all europeaniens?
The machining on the back of the cylinder is just gorgious!
Absolutely. I was immediately thinking about the rotary table work. In 1872!
My mind is now filled with dreams of auto ejecting Fosbery revolvers, thx
Laird Cummings thinking about it you could add a barrel setup like on the Mateba autorevolver and yes, my nose is starting to bleed
That's interesting, a Mateba-LeMat would have to have an unusual hammer design, since the shotgun barrel would be above the normal barrel. The shotgun firing pin would have to extend upwards instead of folding down.
I don't know, top breaks are pretty awesome already.
Have you seen the new video on the Silver and Fletcher revolvers
I would drop a lot of money on a modern version of this in .38 special.
Anthony I'd like so think like 8+ shot .22
.38 special is too long of cartridge for that cylinder. Either, the cylinder and frame would have to be lengthened, or, if you want to keep the original proportions, it would have to be chambered in a smaller revolver cartridge like .38 S&W. But with modern steal, you could probably work up some good smokeless hand loads for .38 S&W on par with a .38spl +P or 9mm. It would definitely be a fun project!
.455 Webly maybe. I know .45acp would be cheaper and more available, but I'm weird about automatic cartridges in revolvers...feels like sacrilege.
Mine is chambered in 9mm + p +. Google Maurice the frankenruger.
The 1878 revolver didn’t have an Abadie system, that came only with the 1882. The 1878 incorporated the Warnant rebounding hammer and has extra notches cut the cylinder to align the chambers with a loading/unloading furrow in the frame.
Very fascinating revolver and very Swiss.
Thank you for this Ian
Would love to see a side by side comparison and ideally side by side shoot with the various Auto-Ejector revolvers like the Silver and Fletcher, colt Gas-Eject etc.
Patreon money well spent Ian. I am so glad you are travelling to bring us this knowledge from Auction houses and museums. I can't do it anymore, so you are doing it for me. Great job.
At 11:41 I kind of expected you to say "This is definitely a Swiss revolver"
Too many fragile parts for a military weapon, but beautiful execution. Switzerland must be a treasure trove of military weapons! Keep these excellent videos coming.
Yeah, it was kind of doomed by the very role it was designed to fill. More's the pity.
This is the greatest prototype revolver collection of all time.
You think? Let's see Dardick Model 1500 revolver ;)
Laird Cummings it's the ugly duckling we love for it's personality
Maybe , but I personaly like the clever idea behind this gun :)
That was so fulfilling to watch that. Awesome video Ian! That's a neat system!
Auto ejecting revolver? How Swiss of an idea.
The REALLY Swiss thing is that UNGODLY amalgamation of a trigger group.
@DOUG HEINS designed by Furrer, (toggle lock nut)
Reminded again why I support this on patrion such a interesting firearm. I also used you as a source for a project I did on the sturmgewehr. Worth every penny.
This was by far the most interesting video you made. Thanks Ian, keep the good work up! Also greetings from sweden.
Never ceases to amaze me the ingenuity in the designs, borderline art, just lovely!
What beautiful revolvers and an interesting choice of caliber. Ty Ian!
You can really tell that was a Swiss gun when you opened it up, by all the precise machining and everything it reminds me of Swiss watches.and that was especially cool that they included the screwdriver in the cleaning rod jag in the handle. Definitely a well thought out gun.
it's the first time I see a revolver with automatic cartridge removal. Awesome!
This is the video that would get me started with Ian's videos, I love his format, I love the weapons he shows off, I love Gun Jesus himself for probably being the most chill, dryly funny, and informative nerd on the internet. Never change, Ian!
They are gorgeous! The finish and machining.
Outstanding video. Ian, l would have never known about these pistols but for your video, great job!
I love Swiss small arms they always put so much time and effort into them same with Ian's Videos
Another awesome video! The whole time, I’m thinking, “I’d wish he would show the ammunition to these odd calibers,”, and then you produce the ammo and demonstrate the ejector! With the tools in the handle, it truly is the Swiss Army Knife of revolvers!
Thanks for showing us these beautiful pieces of art 👍
I became a patron because of this video! I love Ian's work!
That video just shows how cool this channel is. 👍
Really impressive engineering in those revolvers indeed. ☺
I was so waiting to see demonstration of injecting empty cartridge thank you very much!! This is why I love your channel you always provide the answers that I have in my mind both thumbs up for the video and greetings from sLOVEnia
I have an odd question, Matej. Is saying "sLOVEnia" a very common thing/trope, or is it simply something several people have come up with on their own? I've seen it once or twice from other Slovenian people I've met online. Just piqued my curiosity, is all.
eni I don't know if it's that common but we use it because we have it in our name so to show the love we have. I LOVE to use it , I'm very patriotic about my country I love my country there is no place I would rather live so in that case I'm very blessed to be sLOVEnian
Matej Pecnik Cool! I like it. I've always had a soft spot for Slovenia, and I've been intending to visit Ljubljana for a while, I just haven't found the time.
Thanks for the reply, mate. Have a good week.
eni I hope you do visit us in the future it's a beautiful country there's a lot to see in a very small place you can go from swimming in Adriatic Sea to skiing in Alps in just 2 hours or less. Thank you for your wishes and right back at you enjoy your life
Nice system, thanks 4 showing it Ian.
What a beautiful revolver.Thanks for the video.
@10:57: This is how the development of the Swiss army knife started
I am an absolute freak when it comes to revolvers. Powerful handguns that don't jam. Can blow off body parts in the right caliber and creates a boom that makes them almost terrifying to hold.
I must say watching your videos is like a college-level course on the mechanics of of gunsmithing you could package this and then sell it to universities you could say I'm impressed your knowledge is amazing thank you for increasing mine
It’s nice to see that Ian has acknowledged Kessler, which is one of the premier gun auction house in Switzerland. I purchased three firearms from them, and they are fine individuals who truly love firearm history.
Laird Cummings Yes, this is his first time at Kessler Auktion AG.
What works of art these pistols are! The engineering is wonderful.
As Stealth the unknown once put it when he explained the mechanism of the SIG 552, this is one swiss watch of a gun!
Indeed, very interesting as always Ian. Thank you.
From my point of view, the biggest disadvantage of the Colt Peacemaker was the removal of each fired round one by one. So, the Schofield Revolver would have been my choice in those good old times.
I'm happy to hear these are going to a museum instead of becoming "safe queens".
What a clever system. Fascinating as alway thanks Ian
Swiss engineering you gotta love it. and I wouldn't mind a modern reproduction in .38 or maybe .22
Gun Toting Nerd the manufacturing would be super expensive
@@dchevron77 I doubt it. Overall the guts didn't look too much more complicated than a 1911. I think it would be surprising how little it would cost by today's standards.
Man those tools in the grip are super cool alongside the mechanics of course
That is a very slick revolver! Thanks for sharing it with us :)
Love auto-ejecting/quick reload revolvers. Always ridiculously overbuilt when one remembers the Webley guns.
That would take some getting used to, when you fire a shot and have something come flying back at you !
Overall a very cool piece!
Thanks for sharing and take care. 👍
Thanks for another great video, Karl!
Thats is pretty cool!! Love how the empty cases fly out!!
Love the use of brass
I believe that the doctrine at the time was to carry the handgun in the left hand, with the sabre in the right
In that case, I wonder why they didn't design the gun to eject to the right, away from the shooter...
Probably a compromise so that cavalry could also use it, pistol in the right hand, reigns in the left. On the ground, a officer would probably only draw the pistol if his saber were damaged/lost.
@Laird Cummings - If it simply doesn't matter which side the ejector is on, I wonder why he moved the loading gate to the left side? The only reason would be if he specifically wanted the ejector on the right, surely.
This is exactly the sort of coolness for which I subscribed to ForgottenWeapons.com!!
Great video. It would be interesting to see something on the relationship between shooting style and grip angle.
that is really impressive. Thank you so much for sharing
Nice!
I'm from Switzerland, and i've actually been to Kessler's gun shop. It's really, really nice.
Now i'm kinda that i didn't know Ian was here in Switzerland. :/
Such an awesome gun design. Its impressive from the time period. I wonder if the internal mechism could be simplified at all.
Beautiful & nicely thought out. The problems I see vv/it are that to fully load it initially you'd need to remove the cylinder , then after fireing you'd need to reload each shot as its fired & still have to vvait until an empty cylinder came around . Still nice but the Smith & VVesson Schofeild vvould've reloaded faster , just my opinion & still an interesting video as you havnt made a video yet that I vvasnt interested in. Keep up the great vvork Ian.
If you fully loaded it, regardless of if you removed the cylinder or not, it would eject the first round, it ejects when the hammer falls not when it cocks. Plus you don't have to remove the cylinder anyway, you put the revolver in half cock so the cylinder is free spinning to load each chamber, that's standard gate loading revolver system.
The only way to not eject a live round is to have the first chamber sitting inline with the barrel empty while carrying, which for single action revolvers with a fixed firing pin is already standard safety practice because otherwise the fixed firing pin would be resting on the primer of a round and an impact could fire it. However double action revolvers like this usually have a rebounding hammer (when at rest it sits slightly back instead of resting on a primer) so normally they would be fully loaded. But this one cannot be, not unless the ejector is under careful spring load to only have enough power to eject an empty case while a full cartridge would be too heavy, but it doesn't look like that is the case.
Just too cool! If there were ever a reproduction made it would be in my collection.
This is so cool and I'd love to see a modern version of it.
amazing series of revolvers
That revolver system is seriously badass
A question that comes to mind is: can you load the full 5 shots without ejecting the first live round the first time you pull the trigger? =)
...if not then this is effectively a 4 round revolver.
Alex Naanou I was wondering the same thing. The first shot would eject a live round right? @forgottenweapons
maybe you need to fire the first shot in single action in order to keep the live round in the chamber
this is vvhat I thought as vvell,, seems that you'd have to remove the cylider to fully load it & after load a round each time it vvas fired ( vvhile vvaiting forit to advance another 2 places ) ...apologies 4 broken"double you" key
I distinctly remember that one of the most important things back then was to NEVER carry a fully loaded revolver.
They supposedly always loaded every round but one, and the empty chamber was always the one that was lined with the barrel, so there wouldn't be any misfires.
PS: When at the half-cock position of the hammer, most revolvers will allow you to fully rotate the drum in one direction to allow quicker loading, this revolver likely isn't an exception, since it was always a common feature amongst revolvers.
@@KRIMZONMEKANISM yeah that's called a cowboy load, where the chamber facing the pin is left empty so as to take the risk of a misfire from the pin accidentally hitting the primer while in the locked position.
This was common during the times where revolvers had fixed pins.
I wish I was a machinist, so I could recreate some of these neat firearms in my free time for fun.
In a gunfight with two fast shots, before you have time to reload a chamber, you have an empty chamber in between. You always have to have your left hand full with some cartridges and reload after each shot to make this auto-eject mechanism a good idea.
While not exactly a Forgotten Weapon the Swiss Army bike is cool and might be worthy of a video
Pretty cool, not surprised about the internal complexity being a swiss gun and all :P
that was a pretty cool ejection ! and thats a really nice gun. If you ask me the Abadie system isn't "that" good but I guess its about cost
Seems like if they sloped the loading gate spring a little more it'd let you push the cartridge straight in without having to depress the spring.
Dude that is a cool design, I would've purchased one of those in a heartbeat.
One plausible answer: as has been pointed out already, the user would store hammer down on an empty chamber. This is likely why the chambers are numbered. My guess is that the user would load the cylinder after removing it from the gun, leaving the first chamber empty. Since the revolver is double action, the first trigger pull would index empty chamber "1" to the unloading mechanism, bringing loaded chamber "2" into position for firing. From there, each shot is fired until the user notices the empty chambers rotating towards the loading port, where they would then start manually loading individual shots to keep up firing. Interestingly, it's similar to the individual shell loading techniques on pump shotguns. I moved this answer from a lower reply so more people can see it. I hope it helps.
I was wondering if anyone had tried to invent an auto-ejecting revolver. Now I know! Thanks, Ian!
Now I'm dreaming of a revolver which combines this system *with* a variant of the Abadie Loading Gate system for maximum beautiful complexity. Perhaps find some way to add in a Webley-Fosbery style Autorevolver system too? It would never work, but it would fail magnificently!
These guns are beauties. Pity it was never further developed, I'd love to own a revolver with this system.
Excellent video! !!
It is fairly fascinating that all these complicated clockwork mechanisms were worked out before the much less complicated and more effective swing out cylinder.
The men behind the design of these firearms were real geniuses, armed with an extraordinary intelligence and patience. Imagine making complicated parts by hand only to find out that they don't work as desired so that they had to be made over and over again until the optimal functioning of the whole assembly was achieved. Nowadays CAD does most of the design work and CNC machinery does the rest.
When I saw that ejecting system i was like - GENIUS - very thoughtful.
Glad you were here in Switzerland...hope you had a good Röstli( shredded potatoes). Or a nice foundeu??? In all...
Ian!!! Many people are asking this. Can you please answer. If you had it fully loaded, wouldn’t the first shot eject a live round???? Love your show to death. Forgotten Weapons is just ahead of the Great War for number one my favorite channel.
It's a bummer they never made any civilian versions of these things. Sure it's a bit of a novelty, but it's very nice and I'd love to have one.
Nice to see you are in Europe! Could you tell me more about Dutch arms fabrication?
That's really damn cool. I'd love to see it actually firing.
That is so damn cool, super complex but so mechanically cool.
Yes, it must have been very expensive to produce and would take substantionally longer to produce BUT.....We just saw a revolver auto eject empty cartridges while firing the next round (Simulated) like a semi auto pistol. How COOL is THAT! I had never seen anything like this before this video
I like this gun. Very clever and exactly what I’d expect from the Swiss
It'd be kinda neat to see a revolver like this in a FPS. It would be very different from the way most revolvers tend to function.
If you would want to make a alternate history game Forgotten Weapons in general is a great resource but just the idea of this revolver is a real tripp.
Also Mateba Autorevolvers when?
Those are very aesthetically pleasing revolvers.
Beautiful machine!
Finally!!!!! I have always thought that a safety on a revolver was ludicrous! Especially on a s.a. revolver! It's nice to hear someone else agree. That safety is like the notches on a Remington cap and ball revolver's cylinder. It's between the firing positions and you lower the hammer and the fixed firing pin engages the detent. That way you can carry all cylinders loaded safely. Not really a "safety" safety,as it is a way to carry full up.
That is nifty thanks for sharing!
Geez do you hear how crisp that safety is on the brasser? What Craftsman they were, I know the safety is a small part but but dam, it sounds bran spankin new!! Awesome stuff, weird looking, but awesome.
Yay more forgotten weapons!!!
That's a damn cool idea, I can see how with some training, and maybe a strip type speed loader it'd be much faster to shoot and reload than a single action cold or other gate loaded revolver.
*Colt
I can only hit the like button so many times. This is honestly really neat stuff!