FFXIV - Relic Grinds and Why They Matter
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- Опубліковано 14 жов 2024
- So you know how the new relics are basically free? And how some people like that? And other people don't? Well, let's talk about it a bit, because relics being easy to obtain isn't a completely simple matter. There's reasons for people believing there should be a relic grind, why it shouldn't just be an immediate obtain.
This is just a small look at the argument, and just mostly my opinions. There's tons more opinions on this subject beyond me. But maybe it's time we hear people out, yeah?
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The Anima relic was the most fun of the relic grinds I have so far done so when I initially heard that EW would have a relic not tied to a zone I was excited. Anima improved upon Zodiac, so I was thrilled as to what an improved Anima relic could be. 1500 tomes was not it
One definite pro that the Manderville Relics have over both the Eureka and Bozja relics is that they won't potentially be subjected to the issue of not enough players doing the content making it more difficult (such as DR for Bozja).
As for ways I would improve the current relic, I think implementing a rework of the Zodiac books (using what they learned from WT) would be a decent idea or even a revamped version of the Singing Clusters (which could either be bought using tomes, or obtained through a daily/weekly quest).
I do wish Eureka and Bozja were more alive, yes. But that's partly why I chose Anima as my examples. Not just because Anima is imo the perfect relic quest, but perfectly shows how there's multiple ways of doing this.
I would actually argue the inverse. Those relics help keep players in Bozja/Eureka which makes it possible for newer players to experience them. I helped a few friends through Bozja recently and the majority of the people who were doing things like CLL, DR and Dal were doing them for relic progress.
@mosley3485 funnily enough that's my biggest issue with how they handled exploration zones, I love Eureka, meh about bojza but they should be able to stand on their own with their own rewards and such, adding the relics was just a carrot on a stick that caused alot of unnecessary problems.
If you just get your weekly singing clusters(not even the daily ones), within a few months you will have enough to do a couple anima weapons. You can do that while focusing on other things. The amount of tomestones needed for umbrite is the only ridiculous thing IMO. Otherwise, the Anima weapon grind is quite nice overall.
agree with this
I’m trying to do the DR step of the Bozja relic and holy heck looking for a group takes forever
If the devs plan to continue on the tomestone method, the Anima weapons are the best option IMO - the Umbrite step alone is pretty damn grindy
I still will always say that Eureka and Bozja were the best relic content by far. I played in Bozja for weeks if not months just grabbing all the relics I wanted, it was this whole other world of content to engage with, it was a lot of fun. I'm hoping YoshiP skipping it this expansion is due to them maybe working on something really big or unique for the next expansion and they don't have the staff to work on Bozja style content right now.
And yet they have abysmal completion rates. For relics which they created huge chunks of content for, it's nothing short of a waste of effort on their part.
People run Eureka and Bozja to this day! That's long lasting content, the Manderbille are shocking
I’m with you on this one! Was massively disappointed when the step was just “yeah go do your dailies lmao”
I'm personally of a mind that no grind step is better than a _bad_ grind step, but with that said...
I completed a Zodiac-Zeta weapon at 80, before starting Endwalker, and I was _excited_ to work on the Endwalker relic bit by bit on current dungeons, or even anything that wasn't speedrunning Aurum Vale for so many hours. I typically wrap up all my weeklies well before the reset, and don't always have the energy to go on PF to learn a new fight, so having a relic to work towards would've been cool.
If it's 1500 tomes again, I'm not going to riot or anything, but it's certainly been... disappointing.
The first weapon being free, I was fine with - they did it with the Resistance Weapons, seemed like a good idea to get people into it, and at least throw a neat looking weapon to players who are either lazy or don't have time. But for the other steps to be...also free? Ugh.
There's also the fact they're imposing on Tomestones as currency for other things, and risking too many things requiring the same Tomestone currency. You need 1500 for each Relic, which isn't an outright trivial amount, but those same Tomestones can be used to buy gear (desynth, GC turn ins, or used), crafting materials, gear upgrades for crafted gear, etc. After a certain point, it will just feel bad to have to decide "Well, this thing gets to sit on the backburner while I dump Tomestones into Relic" when...we had a method previously that didn't _require_ that all the time.
I think the reason this relic is so simple is because people complain a lot about relics being annoying
I have a personal goal of trying to get all the relics for my main, PLD and I have Zodiac, Anima and Manderville at the moment with a half-finished Eureka relic and I gotta say: some of the older grinds can be rough and can easily burn you out at times so I see that argument.
However, that was kinda the point of relics: a expansion best in slot that you can grind for instead of doing harder content with a cool effect.
Getting a 665 ilvl weapon for completely free sounds boring to me.
Anima did the whole material thing better cause there were other things to do, like the light farming and farming fates for the crystals.
So instead of making it better, they make it worse? I don't get it
I can't believe they experimented with one-time steps in ShB and then moved to this. There's a clear option that fulfills both a grind and completionism. Make the first one grindy and the rest easy. Like that's obviously not going to be everyone's preference, but it does appease both ends of the spectrum in some way. For someone like me, I crave variety, so it's fun grinding the first time and working toward the goal, but then kind of awful repeating the same grind almost 20 times now afterward.
I'm with you for the one-time-steps. I actually like the idea to just throw some tomestones to later jobs as I'm also kinda completionist (not everything but some things) but I don't want to burn myself out on the grind. I just recently finished the 180 Raids for one-time-step Resistance weapon and it took me almost 8months as I didn't want to burn myself out on it. Happy to have it done and yes, it's a feeling of accomplishment but I'm also very happy I don't need to do this anymore.
I can understand people wanting more grind but with more and more jobs it's difficult to catch up if you join later (and want more than 1 weapon) and content like Eureka and Bozja are not as much frequented when the expansion is over, making it a lot more difficult to complete the steps. They could (and did to an extend) make the steps easier later on but this would probably also annoy the people who spend hours grinding the weapons out.
So far I've completed one relic weapon and that was the Zodiac relic. That was fun, I like the grind/farm. Currently working on one Anima relic for now. I'm on the last couple of steps to finish it. I understand the feeling of "wow! I finally did it!"
I think one of the things being left out of a lot of the discussion over this is the long term effects of the changes and how it could relate to the gearing curve during future expansions. Old relics start largely useless beyond glam, hence players don't even equip them when they don't have to.
Also viewing EW as a story bookend this a good way to reset the gearing floor starting the story to come. Everyone is given a starter endgame weapon at lvl 89, this would be a clean path to an end-endgame EW weapon without stalling new players grinding out the eventually outdated content.
100% agree. Id like to think using easier steps on the start of relics may encourage more people to work on harder tasks later on.
I also wanted an step related to the gold saucer. Maybe with gates? That would be fun
Imagine doing a chocobo race against actual real people for a change... That would be nice.
Honestly, I'm not a fan of the big grind for Relic weapons. I got myself the Anima daggers for my ninja but that completely discouraged me from grinding any more weapons. I tried Eureka and got to Pyros but stopped there - it's just not worth it to me
However, I can absolutely see the appeal in grinding Relics for some players - it is something of a status symbol and a feeling of reward after all. Still, I'm glad that the Manderville weapons are rather easy to obtain.
In my opinion though, there should be two ways to get Relic weapons: One easy way akin to the Manderville weapons where you can get the "stat stick" Relic weapon and a more grindy way to get a prettier version of said Relic weapon.
I think I agree with basically everything you said. I think one extra supplement is the value to new players. Relic grinds can be a massive community event and thus an excellent way to bring new players into the fold/have them feel like they're in it with others. I started in Endwalker and really joining the community via the relics was one of the things I was looking forward to the most. This *community* aspect is also really important to the game's health in addition to variety of content and structured goals.
I always thought that relics were specifically meant for the crazy people to give them something to shoot and grind for far above the average casual.
As a filthy casual I shouldn't be able to get every cool shiny in the game unless I'm willing to put in the time. The inverse wouldn't make sense. There's value in exclusivity.
EDIT: Aight island sanctuary 200k blue cowries as the final surprise requirement to the Manderville weapons would be fucking hilarious.
Tbh I wish it would be a bit more "normal" to just admit a piece of content is simply not for you, like you just did. There is nothing inherently wrong about not wanting to do all kinds of content.
I get that it was Best in Slot in other expansions, so people who were into savage raids etc. had to get it ideally, but this isn't even the case this time, so... just get a different shiny weapon if you don't like relic grind instead of demanding that piece of content is watered down to making it a freebie. For example, personally I'd love to get the mounts from the recent normal raids, their design is right up my alley. I don't like Savage raiding though, but I wouldn't dare complaining savage is too hard and should be more casual, or normal non-savage stuff should get this too. Eventually it will be less of a hassle to get it unsynced in an expansion or two, I can wait.
What you people need to realize is that thie is all lore friendly. Think about it.
MANDERVILLE relic weapons.
What are the Mandervilles? They are powerful, look good and, most importantly, they do it all effortlessly and even accidentally. And also they are a joke by the developers just for fun.
It. All. Makes. Sense.
It can make sense for the lore, but that doesn't mean people have to like it or put up with it.
@@Zema98736 I know. I'm just poking fun of it all.
@@AraiiarA I'm pretty positive the relics being tomes are a way to ease stress on developers as well, not just to "have fun". since they are working on two games now, this and ff16, if they worked on ff16 while also churning out regular patches for XIV and added a grindy relic quest on top of it, the devs might actuallly overwork themselves to a not so safe state.
I'm not excusing the state of the relics being too easy to get, just saying I'm pretty sure THAT's the reason they are.
None of the "it's for casuals" reason people are spamming, and I say this as a casual.
@@Zema98736 Okay, dude. I think you might be projecting some stuff at my dumb joke but sure, I guess.
@@AraiiarA You say that, but your og post didn't give off the feel of a joke at all as I've seen people actually say that kind of stuff to excuse it being so simple and easy. Sounded like you were kinda pressed, but sure.
I actually farmed the anima weapon on my AST as soon as I got to 60, not really knowing what I was in for.
The step where I remember doing a LOT of synced Alexander raids was so brutal, and equally fun part of that grind, I even met another AST in the raids who had the finished weapon and that gave me a lot of confidence, and some people even joined in to help me do the raids quicker and for fun.
It’s been over a year since then and I still remember, and while me and some of those folks don’t hang out, back when I was in the DC still, if we ran into one another in town, we would always give a wave ask how we’re doing and maybe run a dungeon together for glamour.
Lol, l did mine dragoon weapon after l got to level 90. I enjoyed steam rolling the a9s boss for light farm
Honestly ShB relics was the best of both worlds. You had a choice between doing bozja or doing regular content and it was a grind either way, my friends were looking for the fastest way which was anything but bozja and I did bozja. Guess who finished first I did i wasn't getting burnt out and the content was fun and a breath of fresh air. I still don't know why people hated it cause it was better then eureka (personal opinion) but I understood peoples frustration at needing to do some of bozja to continue the relic since they already didn't want to do it to begin with leaving them needing to grind it quickly in order to do more steps later.
According to, one website, I have 26 out of 55-74 relics. Clearly, this is not the sort of collection I wish to start. Whatever the method, it generally includes grind. Which is the main reason I don’t bother. That being said, that’s just me. I still recognise that a relic should be a difficult item to obtain. It should be a challenge, because it’s special and unique. But I’m not convinced grinding is the answer. In the case of the Manderville relics it is a tad easy, even for me. So not surprised so many players didn’t enjoy it. Maybe things will get ‘fixed’ in future. As for me, I’ll get all Manderville before it becomes a grind too. 😅 Thank you for this video Wesk! 👍❤
Edit: fixed number of relics obtainable in game, including future 6.55 patch.
That site must be counting EVERY INDIVIDUAL STEP. Because There's only 55 currently completable relics. 74 once 6.55 hits.
Adding in ARR/ShB DoH/L "relics" would only make 55 into 77. Once EW is done, 107.
@@WeskAlber - Thank you Wesk! I must confess I thought the number was ridiculously high, but to be fair I didn’t check. Regardless of the quantity, I was merely pointing out that I’m not a relic collector. 😉 No intent of being misleading! I will fix the above.
Thank you for making this video. I am definitely more in the "let us do anything else but this" team. There is plenty of interesting content this expansion, but not really a lot that keeps me entertained long term. (Especially as someone who isn't interested at all in anything extreme or savage.) I get not everyone has a lot of time at their hands and all, there are some arguments out there I understand to some extent, but some of the discussions I had were truly lacking any kind of nuance whatsoever. As soon as you say you feel the current not-really-grind lacking, some people act like you would demand the OG unnerfd ARR book phase and atma farm back. As if this extreme example would be the only possible other option... (Not to mention how Manderville Weapons will turn into a poetics sink with 7.0...)
I hope getting the question about relics in an interview might have the devs reconsider their current path, should this actually be the route they are taking. (Maybe one of them might even watch your video?) Otherwise I honestly don't think I'll pay much more attention to them. Maybe collect the materials if I don't know what to do with my tomes, but I'll rather start Eureka on my 3rd character and go on with the two Shb relics I'm working on than trying very hard to feel attached to the Manderville relics.
I've been thinking a bit about this since cider spider made a video about this and I noticed I've probably done most of EW dungeons (sabe expert/90)not more than twice because after the msq is done, nobody's queueing for it. There's a lot of content people just forget because there's no need for it.
My point is, Relic steps may help on that too
I've just gotten my first relic (anima drk weapon, not 100% finished but close) and honestly though the grind has taken a while, I gotta say I'm with you on this one. Not having to work for them would make them not feel as special as they do
The only annoying parts of the Anima grind is the tomestone grind and the density grind(generally done with Alexander Savage) The density grind doesn't take long at all while the tomestone grind(for umbrite) is... rather slow. I'm working on my third anima weapon and I'll probably cap it off at 4 of them. Primarily because I like other relic weapons more for certain classes (the Eureka monk weapons look pretty great, glowing fists). The Eureka grind unlocks the Bardesion Arsenal raids, which is it's own reward. An ideal EW grind to me would be something locked behind level 80-90 content, because the reason you get that far is so that you can finally play with all those abilities, with all that nice materia-loaded gear.
One other thing about the Anima grind, I liked having to do all those trials and dungeons, I found it to be a good way to make play through some dungeons I would really encounter in a roulette, and to play it with different class than I did my first playthrough. That's sort of an ideal relic grind in my opinion, give you opportunities to experience content again with a different class, to obtain mastery of that class and get cool glam.
"Feel as special as they do" Feelings are subjective.
As someone who doesn't really care about relics, mostly going for them for the sake of glamour and even then, I found most of the effects on the weapon gaudy or distracting or clashing with my taste, I agree that we need some level of grind. 1500 Red tomestones (which are gonna drop in 6.4 meaning now it'll just be poetics and become even easier) is absolutely nothing and while I have fun doing my dailies, it's not enough of an interesting grind to be really worth doing it.
When they announced that the weapon would be linked to Manderville, I remember them explaining they would go back to a formula closer to before Stormblood and Shadowbringers and I expected either farming fates or other similar duties or outright just adding a little instance à la Diadem to help you farm. As much as I enjoy how laid back it is to get those weapons, I do want a bit of grind to actually keep me engage.
I think Eureka and Bozja, while very interesting, are inherently flawed by the fact that the moment the content is no longer fresh, those get completely abandonned. It leads to essentially giant patches of content dead and somewhat half-inaccessible since, if you want to now participate either because you want a relic or simply want to experience the story, you're now forced to go in a Discord and ask people to do the content with you. And honestly, if you're telling me now to get a piece of content, I have to go in a dedicated Discord or website to experience a shadow of its former self, I'll probably not bother and do something else.
On the idea brought up of a possible Khloe's journal but for the relic, this sounds really good both gameplay wise (since it's fairly easy to just give you procedural tasks in the game world or duty) but as well as lore wise since one of the character in the quest is litterally a conspiracy theorist journalist, you could have the very simple explanation of having him give you missions regarding "sightings" or "weird alien stuff" happen around the world. As long as we find a way to give older content a new life thanks to those relics, I'll be happy one way or another.
Correction: It will likely become 300 Causality, assuming no nerfs. They don't downgrade current expansion costs to Poetics until next expac.
I LOVE Eureka (not Pagos) and Bozja both. So it really is a shame that the content becomes super niche overnight.
Great idea with tying the conspiracy theorist into the relic. Hell, he could be like the Singing Cluster step from once again... Anima. You COULD throw all your tomestones into Clusters.... but there was also a daily and a weekly quest that gave you more than enough clusters. And given doing content gives Tomes... Gasp! You're tome grinding AND doing more than just roulettes!
@@WeskAlber The idea would fit even better since we would finally be doing a tad of investigation when we've been hanging out with the Inspector Extraordinaire himself.
Honestly, Eureka isn't dead much of the time. While not a lot of people love and run Pagos, there are often people in there during peek times, which is saying A LOT considering it's 2 expansion old content's least favorite zone and probably the shortest part of the relic grind meaning people are in there because they want to farm stuff or have fun.
Eureka also did something very smart by having Baldession Arsenal at the very end AND only needed for the +2 of the Relic/Armor, where it doesn't change the look and only adds Elemental Power stat, which is only useful if you really like Eureka and want to do more in there. So you can the completed Relic (dyable and all) and the +1 Elemental Armor (also dyable) and complete everything in Eureka never setting foot into BA. The only thing you need BA for is to finish the story quest and get the Ozma mount, which, while not nothing, isn't the Relic itself. Moreover, you needed Discords for that when it was current, so that hasn't actually...changed.
Bozja, on the other hand...the problem with Bozja early was CLL didn't give much reward and was super punishing, so people did it all at once (early on, you couldn't get in if you wanted to) and then...no one did it. It didn't help the first armor upgrade needed 999 coins (99 would have been a far better choice), meaning a lot of people just decided to not even bother. The other problem is that all the content is gated behind the story, which is gated behind doing CLL, then DR, then Dal. While they've nerfed the content/buffed the player Echo to the point you can do them with very few people now, this still was gating people in the first zone who were late to the party EVEN WHEN IT WAS CURRENT CONTENT still. Which is obviously a problem. Finally, while they responded to complaints about Eureka (that you had to do all Eureka to get the Relics) by giving alternate ways to get the parts and stuff outside of Bozja, they screwed this up in two ways. Firstly, that the outside way was FAR more efficient, making there no point to do Bozja itself...except for the OTHER problem - you still had to do the Bozja story, meaning you still had to grind out Resistance Rank/Mettle and still had to get through the gating raids.
So while on paper, Bozja seemed better, having to do the story meant you had to get rank and clear the raids, which people couldn't get into to clear and which KINDA defeated the purpose of being able to get the mats outside of Bozja since you had to go into Bozja to do rank and story and raids anyway. They really could have fixed that by making the Relic quest not require the Bozja story and have that (and all the extra rewards like mounts and titles and just lore knowledge) be for the people really into it. I feel like that would have been the better solution.
Maybe we'll get Goldilocks in 7.X, though.
I do hope all the people who complained endlessly about Eureka and Bozja have decided after this those aren't so bad so maybe we can have them next time...
@@SubduedRadical Yeah, the Eureka farm isn't the most egregious one on some levels, I've farmed the first zone multiple times with people to get some weapons and armor pieces and there was decent amount of people everytime (I actually never used Discord for it). I still would like to do Baldesion one day for the sake of it but farming everything to be up to speed is not something I'm looking forward to.
The furthest I've gone on a relic in Bozja was Augmented Law and Order's Zweihander cause purple effect and I remember farming all the mats required OUTSIDE of Bozja for those, same for other weapons I made for fashion sake. Hell, I remember having blatantly more fun in running Antitower multiple times no matter how boring it was because I was thinking "at least it's not Bozja". Hell, I never even did Dalradia simply because I needed to reach Rank 25 and I couldn't be bothered to.
I still like the concept of Eureka and Bozja in hindsight, it's very smart way to make content regarding the world and the lore (Bozja is still a very interesting story imo and a more nuanced take of FFXIV's war than just "Garleans are bad oop actually it's just the royality that's bad oop nevermind all ascians !") so I'd like a little instanced duty like Diadem or bigger that doesn't require me to grind the shit out of fate to have access to the CHANCE of getting more fo the content.
Personally I'm glad the new relic doesn't have as much content gating it besides just doing the Hildibrand quests. It makes it easy for the devs to allocate resources towards other forms of incredible content which we've seen, such as the new deep dungeon, the new criterion dungeons, the rework of PVP, etc. I'd compare that to Bozja or Eureka in the sense that when that content was coming out, it kind of served as a black hole which sucked up a ton of resources from the development team. Not to imply that's a bad thing, that side content is really cool and fun! But it did mean we saw less in terms of other content to experience.
Also worth noting that the new relics will be MUCH more forgiving to obtain for glamour purposes in later expansions. In the cases of Eureka and Bozja, grinding those relics is somewhat of a pain in the instances which don't have enough players, which is especially prevalent with Bozja and the lack of players for instances such as Castrum, Delubrum, and Dalriada. I'm cool with them overall making this easier, especially considering they've been focusing in on content for hardcore players and this enables them to gear up without having to spend ludicrous amounts of time in side content.
The Eureka/Bozja point is part of why I used Anima as the example, along with many other reasons.
At the same time though, the time it takes to make new Hildy quests, tie it into the relic, etc, is still time spent on the relic. Time deciding to make it 1500 tomes is still time on the relic. We also may see that this easy start was to sunk cost fallacy everyone and make these next steps rough and involved. Anima had some involved stuff, but it was hardly this huge resource sink dev wise. The relic being ARR/HW era is fine, perfect even.
@@WeskAlber Yeah, I won't deny that I wish there was at least a little bit more to do, at least on the level of ARR, maybe requiring multiple Hildibrand themed Trials or something. Something small that's easily accomplished but still at least has some substance to it. My hope is that the resources they're saving up by not doing a big Bozja/Eureka thing are going towards both current content and the next expansion, though obviously we can't know that for certain.
I agree that creating another Bozja/Eureka would take up a lot of resources that might hinder creating others, but "a huge chunk of side content with its own story and battle system" and "just do dailies" are not the only two options of which you have to pick one. They don't even need to create a new duty, they haven't done so for ARR or HW relics either after all and still made them interesting. (Fuck those ARR books though.) They can introduce a new currency and then put it at different places that could need a boost, or give various options for this step - including the very content you just mentioned as new and fun. Have a step where Godbert needs something out of a variant dungeon, another one where you can do Fates in areas with the Shared Fate feature. Neither of these things need any changes or introduce a new duty and take up plenty of additional development resources. But they would get more people into variant dungeons/help with the queue and offer more motivation to get some bicoloured gemstones or unlock unrelated Shared Fate loot. There is so many things they could do just with the content they already have, but they decided to just.. not utilize this.
One thing I feel like doesn't get stated enough in XIV is that there's often no reason to be out in the world for anything, especially this expansion. The only thing that really gets people out into the zones are hunt trains, but otherwise the new zones feel hollow and empty with basically zero player engagement. It's really a shame the Relic isn't being used to help address this, but I also really think SE need to go back to the drawing board in how they're designing content to bring more life to the zones. Making FATEs more diverse with mini-games (like what WoW has done with weekly quests in Dragonflight) and making them more rewarding to do would probably help quite a lot.
Even just something like a traveling Gold Saucer troupe that setup jump quests and other events in random zones periodically would help a lot.
background: I joined in post shb (i wanna say 5.2ish, little before the pandemic) and i never really Got relic grinding
as someone outside of the relic grind and that Tried to do my shb relic, I hated a lot of aspects, though I liked others. I hated being made to play bozja, which i found obtuse, dull, and dreary. that said, any time i got to do something Outside of bozja, I did like it. I bothered to play the alexander raids, I actually really liked doesnt hvw fates. i hated how it turned 60/70/80 roulette into my daily run of antitower and alliance roulette into daily crystal tower run. i loved every step that gave us choice in how we approached getting items, especially when those choices were things i wouldnt have thought of doing before. that said, i do also like being able to get my pretty weapons for three different jobs with minimal effort. i def see both sides here
I'm mostly on the side that "this is fine", for several reasons. chiefly among them that I'm an endwalker launch new player, having put a whole lot of time into catching up on EVERYTHING, every quest done, every single piece of content with story attached to it(including, of course, one of all of the relics) done, all the story content I'm missing is job questlines(and working on it, at that, already done all the ARR jobs and a couple of HW ones... now *that* is a burnout grind), and being able to actually take breaks instead of having another eureka on my hands is great... and I'm not exactly the only new player with a decade of content to catch up in this expansion. another is, looking towards the future, it'll be great to have a proper poetics dump for weapon glams! anima is the go-to for that until now, and there's a whole bunch more stuff to it than the poetics shopping list.
AND YET, yes, this could be improved. Even respecting the two above points.
I mostly agree with your points, only with an addendum at that not everyone interested in the relics has a ton of free time and it can be burning to struggle to find the time to play other games; it's fine to keep the grind for -one- relic relatively easy even if you actually take breaks from the game instead of logging in at least weekly. Older relics definitely came across as designed assuming you were going to farm all of htem and could get kinda bullshit to farm only a single one then dip, specially bozja; that actually took me twice as long as eureka. But manderville is actually too little by comparison, much of a nice break as it is.
It could have had extra one-time steps before unlocking the "pay tomes, upgrade" quests, and most definitely, it could have offered alternatives for payment other than tomes.
Or, heck, imagine if instead of tomes, the pieces were bought with 600 bicolor stones, that'd have been great! fate farming is actually awesome when you actually have several people doing it. woulda been great for shared fate progression, too... such a grind to do alone...
The time point is a huge reason why I did the gradient stuff. 10,000 tomes per Manderville Weapon is still less tomes for ALL 19 RELICS in that step than it was for 13 Umbrite steps... half of 13 Umbrite steps. An hour of play a day dedicated to roulettes, you will have the step done on the 4th day. And that's without getting out of your routine.
You can still push low playtime players out of their ruts without making things be Umbrite. Gradients and spectrums.
Thanks for your measured take on this!
I found the manderville questline funny and constant. Still need 2 meteorites
I do genuinely wish there was a grind, cause I just have not been enthralled with post EW, and was fully hoping for the Relic grind to carry me to the next expansion. The main thing I haven't gotten into is Raiding, but I like the solo-grind that relics usually can do when my friends aren't on. My main things I can do in Solo in Endwalker is island sanctuary, and delving back into Deep Dungeons, and PvP. Or just making a new character. I know there's a lot of people who get burnt out after the launch of an expansion, but I still like this game, I just don't feel like anything is capturing my attention like the Relics did.
While a new zone like Bozja or eureka would have been amazing (I really loved them) I get that dev resources are dedicated elsewhere, so even a quest specific drop for those doing mandeville relic on things like fates, crystalline conflict, heck even island sanctuary would of been better.
Better yet since EW is the cap on a complete saga, have relic items pop from all the previous content….. yes Everything.
You need a drop a single drop, from doing all ARR dungeons, a drop reward for doing all ARR side quests (if you’ve already done them all then you auto get the drop). A drop from grinding ARR fates. Same thing for HW, SB and ShB, but add in drops for Eureka, Bozja, alliance raids, small raids, PVP content… etc, etc
It’s only a single drop from each piece of content, either guaranteed for doing all side quests, or drop rate that happens after doing the content for a few hours.
Nothing major, but the point is to get the relic you have to experience and complete all the content this saga has to offer, what better way to close the saga?
Really good video! I'm a new-ish player (August 2022) but I've done an Anima weapon and I'm halfway through another, and I want to do a Zodiac as well! I personally really like that we're not being forced to go to some random instanced area to do menial tasks and nothing else for weeks on end to get a relic weapon, but I definitely feel like the variety is really missing.
The best part of Anima weapons is that it's not JUST tomes: You're going around doing FATEs, raids, dungeons, roulettes, CT (that quest got removed now :(), getting GC seals, DoH/DoL, all SORTS of stuff that makes you run all around everything the game has to offer to gather the materials you need. JUST getting tomes is limited to a few sources, and as you said, EW has a MASSIVE variety of content! I don't see the problem of making it so, I dunno, Orthos or Sildhin can drop some materials, or Barb EX can drop another, or maybe you can buy them with Faux Leaves...
They can pretty easily integrate so much side content into the relic quest but they just aren't right now :(
Beats going to Eureka any day though, holy shit I fucking hate that place
Honestly I think a lot of it has to do with the team putting resources toward island sanctuary and Tatarus Grand Endeavors AND continuing the manderville story. I was a huge fan of eureka and Bozja because they were a fresh take on the grind (with separate mechanics, new bosses, and new leveling progression).
I do wish the grind for the 2nd step was bigger. Do not mind the first step being as simplistic. I just look at this from a perspective though that wonders if resources that normally would be put towards the relic stuff was redirected to the graphics overhaul, or other stuff, and thus when Yoshi looked at the big picture and had to choose an item to cut on, the relics just fell short on the list. Will have to see what comes going forward, but I do wonder if some of the bigger projects coming caused the relic step to suffer.
Agreed 100% i love the grind, i live for grinds like relics, mounts pets, ect but i know that's not everyone so as loaded as it is to say they really should at least try and meet somewhere in the middle instead of totally removing any kind of grind at all. Also thanks for making this a place for civil discussion about the matter, an example for the community once again 👍
For a while I wasn’t doing roulettes so manderville WAS a change in routine for me. But I understand the issues with it. I’m taking a break hard doing roulettes until 6.45 to see if the customization step is good or not before I commit to getting all of them.
Rn I'm on the xbox beta and been grinding out the DRK anima relic to get the drip and while getting the whole tomestones is daunting it feels like a somewhat healthy grind that you can somewhat casually get. Something a little less intensive would be fine but I do like outting effort into something and be rewarded for the effort. The only thing about the easier relics are that once I' done with the anima grind at least I'd have a more chill grind b4 going and finding something more grindy
On one hand so far from what i have available the eureka type relic grind seems so far the most fun and different to do although still a bit faunting with my current level but something perhaps worth doing for the fun at least
One of the appeals I thought of this game was to focus on encounters and community, not necessarily loot. I came from wow where loot drops were in general pretty specfic, and people are farming certain things both for transmog or glamour as it’s called in this game, or for power.
The issue was that for a certain legendary items there was a lot of RNG, so even a hard-working group or individual would take a lot longer for no apparent reason to acquire the same item. I think the relic grind being shorter is no problem, because we still have to learn fights and many types of mechanics. I don’t see the point in making something tedious it’s not like it’s hard to accomplish, it’s just time consuming, and time is something that a lot of people don't have. It doesn’t mean they don’t like the game any less, it just means they might have other obligations in their life. Making these weapons more accessible is a good thing in my humble opinion, as there are ways to distinguish a player from others, for example, players that accomplish or be more challenging raids or counters.
The thing I kinda fail to understand is why these anti grind people are so happy to get relics for free of all things. Like it's very bizarre to me how there's people who don't want to engage with this type of content yet they ask for it to be trivialized. And if the reason is simply just the cosmetic then honestly that is kinda sad, because a cosmetic you didn't earn with be replaced very soon by the next new thing, so you won't have any attachment to it.
I believe it's the freedom of choice. Rather than be forced into what they don't like, they can choose what they do like with their friends and such.
Yeah... I mean, I did a lot of relics way past their era and chose the ones I got in Shadowbringers when it was current content mostly for looks, because I knew in a few months this would be their only actual item use. But they still mean more to me, (relic story spoilers incoming) because in HW Gerolt, the scholar guy and me created a living aetherical being bound to a weapon. They mean more to me because I helped finding out what happened to the Isle of Val when it disappeared in the ARR patches, and because I could free Bozja with the resistance. They mean more to me because of teaming up for the greater good of spawning Pazuzu or Penny, for the best chaotic atmosphere of death and destruction in Dalraida and the fun of kicking Alaimbairt's spiked Butt in that one HW FATE with 7 other people over and over.
Without all this it would be just on the same level as the crafteable shiny versions of Extreme Trials you can get on the market board. A nice shiny thing among other nice shiny things I wear when it suits my glam occasionally. And that's just sad. Especially considering this is supposed to be peak relic craftsmanship with Gerolt and Godbert teaming up I thought there would be more to it, but I guess... not.
@@Sketchblopp To this day I still think very fondly of the Anima quest, which I did when it was current. I still use Kaladanda Lux, and I like the lore that it is more a companion in my quests than a weapon I use.
@@sleepingparappa But we are literally doing what we have been doing forever, and choosing to do roulettes with your friends is just a routine, not any kind of special activity
@generalpenny That is true, and it makes sense because both ARR and HW also had you run old dungeons for your relic and we were told in advance we would be goiing in that direction, albeit those one had a bit more engagement with it. In all honesty, I do believe the relic grind we have now may be due to the backlash and lack of participation Eureka/bojza faced so the devs are playing it safe this time round .
this pertains to 6.5x:
grinding for boz relics and the yokai event in anticipation for Dawntrail has been some of the most fun ive had in my 1800+ hrs of playtime. this is the first time ive done any events with an FC aside from maps, and its cool actually playing with your guild! regarding my solo ventures, ive met some really cool people in boz because it forces interaction, something which i think this game SORELY lacks, considering its an MMO. stepping into the southern front instance and seeing people milling about and actually talking about the game has been so, so refreshing. the yokai event has injected a ton of life into the game for me. the world actually feels alive when you can go to nearly any zone right now on a congested server and see SWARMS of players running around doing overworld content. it all comes down to personal preference, i suppose, but playing an MMO and actually having to make your own parties, work with other players, and engage with content ive otherwise not really touched due to a lack of general interest from other players, has been phenomenal.
This is my first current content relic and my hopes were high given how much fun I had doing some of the previous ones that I do feel this as a let down.
With Variant, Criterion and Orthos, I was hoping for these to be alternate avenues to farm for the enhancement but alas, such is not the case nor it looks like it will ever be.
Kinda frustrating to have those options right there for the taking and choosing to go down the "just tomestones" route.
"With Variant, Criterion and Orthos, I was hoping for these to be alternate avenues to farm for the enhancement but alas, such is not the case nor it looks like it will ever be." Don't they give tomestones? So aren't they literally the definition of a "alternative" way to get EW relics?
@@Tom-Pendragon in the sense that they could have the items you buy from tomestones as a reward for completing the content, ie like they did with Timeworn Artifacts, Loathsome Memories, etc
In essence a lot of relic steps do come around to spending tomestones along with getting some other item for the sake of variety.
Not gonna lie, with Ultimate Weapons being much more fun and much better looking weapons, they need to make better incentives to make relics worth my time again.
Maybe make them +5 iLVL during the current savage tier, because IMO there's zero point in making a weaker relic when the step to get said relic is months after the savage tier drops anyway.
Also might need to have better designs; they don't NEED to be ultimate weapon level, but I feel like they haven't matched the quality of ARR/HW relics since.
As it currently is, I like not having to grind them. They're weaker weapons and don't look as good as ultimate weapons. But if those change, I'd be onboard with the grind.
Hello i never commented one of your video but i want to thank you for all your content and all the help u provide my journey on FFXIV is way more pleasant with your guide and content ! thanks you
While I grinded my dol/dol gear during 5.3, I happenned to get a huuuuge burnout when 5.3 released. And my grind for this expansion's gear isn't even halfway done... I was waiting for something relic related to break my routine with, but when I realised this was once again a tome farm, I just lost all motivation. I needed a reason to break my routine, and relic grinding was what I was looking for...
I actually don't have the manderville weapons for one reason... I've been spending all my tomes on grinding up my crafters and gatherers. All the tomes have just gone to getting the Indagator stuff which I've finally gotten myself to. And it's felt more rewarding getting the Splendorous relics than just... buying the Manderville ones.
I did a relic quest way back in the day with og ARR quests, honestly I feel it should be sort of like it was back in the day, but instead of having to do it for every weapon, once completed, then you just can buy the rest, so big long grindy unlock is fine, but only make me have to do it once though, gets really old doing it again. I do not look forward to doing any relic grinding now that I am back, so I have not done anymore, still working up through MSQ though.
Yeah, as a relatively new player hearing about relic weapons, I was super hype to get a manderville one when I finally got through the questline to unlock being able to get it.
But that's just it.
It was only a grind and felt worth it to me because I hadn't done most of the content that's required to be able to get it, and to anyone else who's done that content pre-emptively for exterior reasons, it's just gonna be an easy grab and feel like it was nothing.
While "grind" is a pretty broad word, I find that "novel content grind" is much more to the point for some players. Endwalker relic weapons offer no unique content. They are, therefore, meaningless for players who wish to engage with some form of novel content that culminates in novel gear. For some, this can be the difference between paying the sub or not.
There is a good chance I will never get a Manderville weapon. There is a good chance I'll do Castrum/Delubrum for no reason other than playing that content with other people. Someone else's idea of "grind" is my idea of having fun with a game I like playing. There are people with several resistance weapons who never felt what it's like to take a healer into Castrum with a proper essence and two useful lost actions, enjoying taking hold of the game, synergizing with other like-minded players and helping new people clear content. How many of us did og Delubrum and saw the +1 million dmg on the midares by fully prepped sams? Or the absurd numbers on a fully stocked misery? No, all we hear about is "the grind", as if these systems didn't offer novelty by design, always being goal-focused. But I digress. (Or do I?)
To reiterate, it's very simple: no novel content to "grind", no reason for prolonged subbing.
I don’t have any problems with how we are getting this tiers relics. You still had to grind to get those tomes. I just hate having to do anything revolving fates.
I'm happy with the Manderville weapons. I know they're not crazy interesting but I've done every relic weapon on release since ARR and this is the first time I felt...idk kinda free? Eureka led to horrible burn out where I needed to step away from the game twice. Bozja burnt me out as well, tho I played thru it. Endwalker is the most I've ever stayed logged into the game and I attribute part of that to not being bogged down relic grinding. I've finally found time to start progging UCoB and some DSR which has been so much fun. There's still a lot I want to do like blue mage raids and criterion savage. I think this type of relic came at the right time for somebody like me. However, I am still down for another exploratory zone in 7.X. Bring it on!
The best relics are the ones that give you a checklist you can steadily chip away at. I'm going to use un nerfed resistance weapons as an example. First step was just poetics, fine whatever its step 1 who cares easy to get your foot in the door. Spend a few hours running across heavnesward zones farming fates, much as I personally hate doing fates I find them mind numbingly boring, it didn't take too long and even late into the expansion you'd still find at least small groups running the fate gauntlet. Then you had to run 6 60 dungeons, either spamming antitower or queueing up for a bunch to get mroe variety if you were fine going a little slower. Alternatively you could've gone into bozja and with how the items dropped it encouraged you to not just run around fates but farm the enemies that drop clusters or spawn CEs. Then the next step initially was bad as it was 15 CT (I did this as an excuse to start playing red mage) or 15 castrums, the latter option was way too slow so the nerf to 3 castrums was very much warranted (ignoring the bad CE drop rate). Then 18 mach and 18 ivalice raids, while this number is kinda obnoxiously big (and should not have been a one time step as it would help fix the problem that its impossible to queue for content these days since everyone who cares about the relic has already finished the one time step) I enjoyed running the alliance raids a couple times each day I felt like my progress was slow but steady even if my ears now bleed whenever I hear tactics music. And then the infamous delu step, running that 15 times with groups that never used esscences and kept dying so it took over an hour each run, was painful, but having a couple friends who also wanted to run delu made it a fun shared experience (even if after over 60 runs I never got fucking golden gabriel I'm so sad). Final section with zadnor was kinda less interesting, either obtained mostly passively as you level through zadnor, or painfully spamming normal raids, its whatever at least bozja was finally good for it. Then you had the step with a lot of variety, spam 70 dungeons, spam delu again to double up relic progress (made more sense once delu was nerfed to 3 artifacts though) or do the new dalriada, a lot of options but all things you wouldn't naturally do, giving a checklist to chip away at.
I'm kinda in your boat, I think there's reasonable middle ground, even just some simple tasks like farming specific mobs or doing hunts or FATEs would be an improvement over .. more tomestones.
I really wasn’t too bothered about the first two steps of the Manderville weapons as I thought it was going to be like ShB. The first few steps being basically free, then the begin with the grind. From what you’re saying though, it doesn’t seem like it’s going that way.
I’m not sure how to feel about it, I suppose it gives me time to do other content and having farmed previous relics, I’d still like the grind to exist somewhere. I feel like they’re missing the mark with relics but hopefully we will get a better system soon or at some point in the future.
Like I say in the video, it's not actually confirmed to be super easy again. It's just heavily implied, but could be like I also show. 10,000 tomes this time. Super boring, but at least pushes a grind to maybe get people trying to get a farm group going or such.
This is an opinion piece on why I say they should do more with it, not 1500 again
Se could take advantage of the many step . Start at 25 and double on each step if you did previous one . B1=25, b2=50,b3=100,b4=200,b5=400 . This would lessen the grind while keeping things grindy
I only started playing when Endwalker got released, so perhaps that doesn't bother me as much, but I can honestly say that I absolutely hate grinding for grinding's sake. This is just my opinion, but if I can stockpile materials for later, I'm all for that. I think grinding just to have something to do feels artificial, and it feels like the game is just using this as an excuse to artificially inflate the play time. At the end of a long grind, I only get satisfaction if it DIDN'T feel like a waste of time. For example, I lave and hated getting the Eureka weapons and gear. Once I go them, I felt relieved and satisfied. Then when I beat Shadowbringers and did the Bozjan weapons, I got seriously bored with how long it was taking me to do the same thing over and over. When I completed by Resistance weapon, it felt more like "about time, it's finally over" instead of a moment of triumph. The Resistance Gear in particular felt way too boring to grind, so much so that I only completed one set and one weapon and said never again. With Eureka, I got all my healer weapons and the summoner weapon because it didn't feel that bad and the grind wasn't as long. I'm still doing the EndWalker MSQ so I haven't started my Manderville weapons yet, but I'm not upset with being able to stockpile what I need so I don't have to grind. That's how I feel at least.
I love adventure forays and deep dungeons. They said we werent getting eureka/bozja but get a deep dungeon Ethos. They literally gave us the perfect content to tie relics to in some way similar to how blades you could get timeworns from potd floors sets. They completely bamboozled! Another way would be doing Fates in ShB/EW, this EW relic, going to ARR or HW is not
It would certainly help all the Shared FATE farming people if more people would start farming ShB and EW FATEs. Oh well..
not having something goal-oriented to work towards is my problem with the manderville relics. but more than that, i can't appreciate them because the steps being only "do dailies to pay 1500 endgame tomes" feels like it cheapens the Hildibrand quests associated with the weapons in the first place, and that makes me very sad because i adore those quests quite a lot. someone only doing them because they want a cheap shiny that's worth the same effort as getting endgame poetic gear? ok i don't normally judge how a person plays, (as long as they're not griefing) but also i am absolutely judging them for that specifically.
I don't do "dailies" so the relic gave me a reason to do a few. People play the game differently, so there is always going to be group that's disappointed and a group that's happy. I'm happy that just playing the game gave me a reward.
For new players tho, the Hildebrand storyline is a solid 2 day long grind of nothing elsel
If they don't skip the scenes. But also, the fact that people are considering that part of a grind doesn't actually do it any favors.
@@WeskAlber I wonder if the Devs themselves consider it a part of the grind, would explain the lack of "anything else" at least a bit.
@@Sketchblopp That could cover the 6.1 step then. .2 and .3 still nothing though.
Remember this, SE and Yoshi Are known and famous for listening to the community and make changes base on the majority of the community to make them happy and have a better time playing the game. That what makes FF14 standout and got good reviews. So for all these changes that we see coming, those who dislike it, perhaps take a moment to considering that you maybe belong to the minority% here and these changes will make the game better/healthier :D
More people have anima relics than any other relic.
According to Lalachievements
Zodiac Relic: 44.1% completion
Anima Relic: 50.6% completion **3
Eureka Relic: 38.4% completion*
Resistance Relic: 48.5%**
Manderville Relic: 51.3% **2
* - Hydatos completion
** - This is completion of the Dalrida, not necessarily the relic.
**2 - This is the achievement tied to the first quest, not completion. Still higher than Zodiac though.
**3 - This is actually the MINION tracking. The minion technically can be skipped despite having a completed relic. Technically, there could be people who have the relic not accounted for in this number.
@@WeskAlber Oh ppl did progress to obtain those weapon in the past, like me :D I have them too, but Did I enjoy the grind to obtain them? Nope :< not at all x) , so I assume majority of players feels like me thats why they slowly change it, just like the thingy with positionals for melees, slowly slowly getting rid of it :3
I personally dont mind this. Being around since arr, in arr the grind was the booms. In hw it was the sands. stb it was eureka. Shb it was bozja. This time its tomestones...because of this ive managed to get all my fav job relics, instead of one or two, and fully equip my entire sub fleet to farm gil. It shifted my goals. Granted its not for everyone, but for me personally, this was a nice break from the grinds of go do this thing for hours again. Hoping a return to a healthier grind in DT.
Not having yet another grind in the game was the best thing ever. I'd be fine with there being two options to get the weapons - a grindfest and the tomestones - so people can choose what they want, but don't take away the simpler method just because you can't find what to do in the game.
I agree that we don't need that exact thing but it has been great to just run around with other people in Bozja doing events and seeing a part of the story that I hadn't before. I would love it if they gave us some kind of thing to be social around
12:02 I love reclic grinds, I HATE the yokia event. Fate open world grinding has almost never been fun. Litgit any other type of grind is more fun. I will ALWAYS prefer stuff like Euraka and Bozja fate grinds where they are like boss gauntlets.
What I'm most surprised about however. Is that Variant dungeons were RIGHT THERE. They had a PERFECT candidate to tie them too, with an alternate route of Criterion dungeons that they could have made "harder but faster to get your shiny stick of choice". Considering how sparse the rewards for VC dungeons are as well. It would have added a much needed reason to do them. They are functionally dead content RN on my DC.
And this is coming from ME, the guy who often says that if you need to get a shiny stick at the end to want to play a game, then you shouldn't be playing that game because you don't enjoy it, you enjoy getting the shiny stick. Honestly I'm sick of modern games and grind. It's more often then not just a way to pad out a game. How about spending that time used to make a grind, to instead make a longer game that actually has content?
I really think that you present the various points of view in a very calm and neutral tone, which is a very refreshing change from some of the posts in social media. Not that I blame people- i understand that they are disappointed - I would really recommend your video since you really present various points of view from someone who has done all of the relics and also understand s various player segments.
Personally I would be fine if this relic had more of a grind IF we get the approach that we could choose our content and not be forced to repeat specific content over and over, AND if in return for that grind the weapon ilevel and patch made it worth the effort.
That's the most annoying bit. I even go as far to say Limsa afkers are fine if that is actually their idea of fun. But some of the people going as far to say I want the Umbrite step to come back and force everyone to do it. I mean, I WOULD be fine with that for a few reasons. But at no point did I say that's a good idea, instead saying that there's middlegrounds.
Forced to do the same content is fine... IF it's a secondary option. Could give multiple options, including a "go do Orthos a ton" option.
I dunno man. I've got every relic in the game as well (including Physeos). I would think that since you're also in that achievement grindset (top 10 life), you would also share the opinion that the weapons were always 'softcore' grinding anyway. I like that I can do it passively while doing other in-game activities - rather than be forced to do one activity that I otherwise wouldn't be doing. (I mean, yea - Stormblood FATEs gives me Fate achievement progress towards 10k but uh.. literally nothing else :/ Doesn't tickle that multi-tasking itch). Astronomy Tomes ARE variety. I've been earning mine from farming FL's for Wins and Mentor Roulettes. Hunts? Treasure Maps? As long as you're actively playing, you get your relic. And not only that, now you can get as many weapons as you want if you're playing casually. I love that.
You touched on the fact that there's a lot of 'varied' content in EW. This is the problem I think people are bumping into, but don't really realize. For people who don't want to engage in deep dungeon, or islands, or pvp fomo series rewards, variant currency - the game isn't pushing people into a singular direction like with the last two instanced mega zones. There's entire sections of this expansion that players are choosing not to engage with - and that's OK! Could they have tied all of these additions together with the relics? Yes. But could you imagine each of these things being required for the weapon step?: 100k Cowries? 100 Sil'dihn potsherds? 25 Crystal Conflict Victories??? People would fucking riot.
(You mentioned HW relics, but speed running 255 DRNs made me the saltiest out of every step of every weapon to date. Group formation for efficiency is so toxic. Never again.)
EDIT: Inb4 the final step is 1m MGP.
That's the thing though. The Umbrite step, you have options. Singing Clusters had quests for bonus Clusters. ShB steps almost all had two options. Make those extra content pieces an OPTION for the relic. If you need 180 of an item, make Sil'dihn give like, 5 a run. That would otherwise cost 200 Tomes, in the step that takes 7,200 Tomes. You could very easily get through a few with just dailies. But for people who are going for every relic, it takes a bit more. Or even just gives them incentive to visit again.
I was right there with you with doing the DRN spam. Still hated Pagos and Books more. But since we don't have an open zone this time, we can get multiple options for the grind with the content we do have,
@@WeskAlber I definitely wouldn't turn down more options on steps. 👍
i like the Manderville Relics. it makes me exited for them, i got them for all my 90's. But now i have them i need to keep on them and am looking forward to the quests going forward.
As far as i have seen of older relics, they started easy and went on harder and harder.. or better said: more and more grindier.
I liked how easy it was, how i did my usuall content, had to do some Roullettes with 90'S instead of leveling a lower job, that decision alone hurt a little bit :D
But they look pretty and made me get the splenderous tools too. And do the older relics. For me it was an entry to relics, easy to understand, easy to do and easy to get hungry for more.
But looking at the older relics and their grinds.. i can understand how old time players feel.... uninspired (not to say salty)
As someone who has some a few Anima weapons and is currently doing the Eureka grind, I would prefer that Endwalker relic weapons required you to at least do Endwalker content, whether that be dungeons, raids, FATES or something like Eureka/Bozja. The reason being you are forced to do content with other players, maybe even to organize with a community working on that goal. It's more satisfying than just grinding tomestones(which is the most BORING part of the anima weapon grind btw).
I don’t understand why people need to grind to feel satisfied. Maybe majority players are casual, work life balanced player ? When you check FCs I see many stated as work-life balance. However, you know what I cannot find enough people to go into the latest deep dungeon, maybe please add this as a requirement : )
Every relic I done so far (Zodaic, Anima, early bits of Bozja) have all been pretty miserable personally. Grinding out trivial content isn't my idea of fun, so I'd definitely prefer if they stuck to just tomes or other passive ways of getting it done while doing current content like expert roulette/savage clears.
When I got to Radz at Han, with Godbert, I totally expected him to expect me to find the Manderville Meteorite Shards scattered all across Eorzea... as a thought: Maybe there are several nodes scattered across Eorzea, and each node has a Hunt boss level fight attached to it? So, the nodes spawn randomly, and you have to do a Hunt for access, but everyone in the Hunt can collect the node?
I've noticed that a very vocal portion of this game's playerbase just straight up don't want to play the game and get annoyed when the devs actually make them play the game to get rewards. Maybe I'm in the minority here, but I started playing in ShB and, even though I have some criticisms of Bozja and Eureka, they were still the most fun I had playing the game just bc it felt like I was actually working towards a goal. The new relic "grind" doesn't fill that void for me at all personally, and as someone who isn't doing savage rn, my time playing in between patch cycles is literally just dailies with the occasional mount farm. I wish I had something to get me excited about playing this expansion besides patch days.
Skipping through the Manderville cutscenes and doing dailies I was going to do anyway, is easy, but not engaging.
You didnt mention the hildabrand quest line having to be finished first.
Which can be counted as the first "step." One that I'm pretty sure takes less time than either of the tome steps if you don't care about the story scenes. I'm VERY take it or leave it with Manderville, so if I had to do it on an alt, it'd be a quick speedrun and some fun trials.
tbh I feel like those trials are WHY they tied it to Manderville. To fill out those four duty queues... but also super weird they stopped at just those.
@@WeskAlber I think they are swamped with everything and making the Mandeville storyline mandatory is a common ground for people to grind if they never done but also for those that want to grind for relics they can do tomestones. No one was gonna get everything they wanted but this is a nice compromise. People that have been playing for years probably are the ones that ain't happy but at least this is better than nothing at.
I 100% agree. As someone burnt out on daily roulettes and hunt trains, I want a fun social thing to do in the game.
Last time I voiced that opinion in a comment section I was told to “play other games”.
And I do play plenty of other games, but this is my only real multiplayer one (I’m not counting elden ring as multiplayer with how I play….). I want to make friends and have fun with other people
I've done basically everything I wanted to do in the game, I was expecting some kind of grind to play again. I enjoy the game a lot, I just need an excuse to do some other content than dailies/weeklies etc.
The Relic grind this time is doing Hildibrand.
You underestimate just how large a percentage of players find it to be just that: a tedious, grinding, unfun (and unfunny) bore. (Not I; I love it so I came in all caught up.)
Spending current Tomestones on gained from what you were doing anyways after that to get/upgrade? Sugar to make the medicine go down- nothing more.
At most, I would see acceptance of tie-ins to Island Sanctuary or the Variant Dungeon, but otherwise I think "Relics must be grindy" are as on their way out here as they are in competing MMOs with encounter design (and difficulty) replacing it in priority.
We can consider the Hildibrand Quest Step to be the "one time" step of the relic. A very short one though, for those of us who do not like Hildy. Only characters I liked were Greg and Godbert, and have no idea why people are so into Hildy. If you hate it though, super easy to skip.
Plus also, I remembered post-video. They likely made the quests required for the exact same reason I mentioned in the video. it fills queues. Queues for the Hildy Trials.
Can you put out a video talking about suggestions for how you manage your goals, I tend to try to do too much and don't get anything accomplished for silly reasons and perhaps sometimes real reasons. While I get a lot of stuff done and still find ways to help others, I am now looking for other ideas or rather, someone to listen to while deciding what I wanna do next, plus what other people's goals are.
I will say that I was genuinely shocked that the devs didn't tie the criterion dungeons into the relic weapon grind in some form. I know that they're considered "experimental" and were a completely new addition, but it feeds into the main problem with Endwalker: longevity. I did the Sil'dihn Subterrain until I got all the lore endings, the special boss, and maybe a couple more to get the minion and mount. All in all, it took me maybe 20 runs, and I haven't touched it since. If you wanted an easily solo-able OR community experience that would bolster relic grinders while not be too difficult or time consuming, the criterion dungeons seemed like a guaranteed hit. It would offer more than the extremely low amount of tomes, while also encouraging people to talk about faster routes, better boss strats, funny experiences if they do it with other people, etc.
I'm really, REALLY hoping this next step is at least a little more involved. If it isn't, I'm more than likely going to cancel my sub until 7.0. I'm going back to Uni in a little over two months, I'm barely going to have time for the game anyways, but if there isn't some form of long relic grinding that I can use to destress in my downtime, it's better for me and my wallet to take a long break.
For me, I joined well into the early reaches of ARR, and I fell in love with Svara fate grinds, so for me, relics are a continuation of that. It might seem boring or repetitive for others, but ffxiv has expanded upon this in every expansion to reward players with more enticing rewards, be it cosmetic or functionality, eureka was kind of hit and miss but it was still enjoyable because we got a lot of zones, I felt that bozja was the right amount of grind for the right amount of rewards, as well as having inter-instance queue's for the raids made it a lot more accessible, than having apply on discord like you would in BA, on the same note, keeping Savage content seperate as a means to gather the party specifically for that content was a good decision, as not everyone wanted the gearsets.
Endwalker doesn't have any form of fate grind, so i have no desire to play it.
if you follow the relic quest thread convert your weapon to the next . Its less gtindy but if you want to keep the weapon you made , outch . Its brutal
I don't know why this video appeared to me just now but... I prefer if it's something SIMPLE but DIVERSIFIED, I mean, the player at least needs to do A LITTLE bit OF EVERYTHING that exists in the expansion with a given class.
(On Endwalker it's Simple and Nothing 😢)
On Endwalker for me the ideal could be something like this:
1 Fate on each map, collect a little of the Raids itens, buy itens after some Hunts, one time each C/V Dugeon, maybe one time Smileton and Stigma, one time on each "normal" Roulette, and a little bit of itens bought with Gil and Tomes. (no steps needs to be exaggerated) all that for each single job.
I personally think it more comes down to how burned out a player would feel after the grind regardless if the actual progression is fun or unique or whatever.
Me personally after experiencing Zodiac grind and got my hands on my first Zeta,I'll promised to never go through such exhaustion ever again.it's just not worth it.
The Burnout left me not playing the game for a week even through there is no denying the reward was TOO damn satisfying ya know ? It felt like i got a badge i should be proud of and my friends also happy for me even through they put their time by carrying me onto grinds that requires me to do 20+ unsync trails.
and not to mention,It did felt like breath of fresh air and i actually put my time onto something i never bothered...Like doing 10s dungeons or Fates where i only done them once to twice before i started the chain.
so after hearing how easy it is to obtain the Manderville Relics i was a bit glad cus i don't have to go through such grind let alone burning out again but at the same time i don't like the feeling of getting such rewards in a silver platter too.
I'd say the grind needs a proper balance in between actual hard work and effort while also be comfortable and fun to go through.
Something that's genuinely not as burn out inducing as the Zodiac/Resistance relics nor is it Effortless as the Manderville Relics.
Make the grind somewhat like that and i am sure both parties would find an understanding cus i can see why most people prefers Manderville Relics grind AND I can also see why many liked the Anima relic grind cus apparently it's just like what i mentioned above.
I understand the point of a bonding experience and a badge of honor. But if we had them grinded through island sanctuaries and criterion dungeons, it'd be the same content we're having and it'd be a large grind. And there is a long grind if you haven't done the Mandeville quest. At least we could ask for a sense of closure where they had us go through the long cycle of the heroes journey
I never really find Grinding Rewarding,. Well atleast certain grinds are not rewarding.
ARR had a few good interesting ideas, I really liked the Book, but the Crystal RNG was annoying.
HW was more of a Tomestone grind now then it was for EW. I believe my item was around 9-10k Poetics, and I still had to throw in about 90-100k Gil for materials, and I still haven't gotten myself my Lux yet.
SB, is literally the worst one to get because it is completely tied to Eureka, and Eureka is very Low Population, it was ok, when it was released, because it was a new thing but as time goes on, this makes it harder and harder to reach, it is not satisfying it is just annoying. I gave up because I took a break from Eureka, and by the time I decided to get back into it, I found no one really their to help me get caught up and get the gear.
ShB was the time I really was determined to do Relics, and it was annoying to say the least. I never been so angry at seeing Blue Mages, since the Yokai Watch Event. The First one was a rewarding thing for the grind, but that only lasted for the first one, every other weapon was very much a hassle, it took me a day or two grind to get my First 2 Relic, but it took me a month to get the willingness to finish my 3rd, by the time I finished my 4th, I literally gave up trying to obtain any more because it wasn't worth it.. And similar to Eureka, Bozja is pretty empty.
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How EW is handing it so far may not seem the most exciting or time consuming, I still feel the most at ease getting the Relics, it is not a hassle, and I can grind any max level content I want and I can get the Relic, I can't do that with any of the others.
I don't mind the grind for ARR relics but I always thought they should've get rid of the materia step since the materials are now very expensive and you don't need the stat increase at all. Also the light grinding step needs to be normal rather than having a randomized double light timer which prolongs the dungeon runs.
But materia for Zodiacs is free and is easy to farm
While I think relic grinds are actually quite fun (though Zodiac was one HELL of a commitment and Eureka and Bozja requiring other players to be doing specific content isn't great) I think the reason that the relics weren't much of a grind this time is ultimately because they're tied to the Manderville questline. They're not traditionally grindy weapons because the appeal is moreso in following the Hildi story. I still wish that they were anything BUT only causality tomes. I need something to use these damn poetics on, man!
I could not agree more.
I just hope there are steps that call for taking the weapon into content to build up aether, or steps that include some tome grinding, but also currency from other content.
Very good point. I just wished tomestones would be warted for FATEs, too... I mean, you get them for hunts bunt unless you're in a Hunt-linkshell or -discord, its hard to get to know when they start and where. Also its sad not to have another story line... expect the Manderville quest... which is so awesome, I'm still laughing XD
I've been playing for something like three and a half years now but two of those years were as a free trial. During the free trial period I got one ARR relic and all HW relics. After I subbed to the game I got two more ARR relics alongside some friends and a StB relic and some armour pieces. I still haven't finished the msq. I am at the very start of EW. I'm doing Bozja now. So knowing all that I have to say that I absolutely hate grinds in games. I think that they are more of an excuse for the developers to just include something mindless or boring instead of something actually interesting to do. I agree on a lot of your points. Doing relics with friends and being social can be a lot of fun. But doing them alone is one of the most boring and tedious experiences in the game. I hate doing fates alone. I think fates shouldn't even exist. Just leave the big fates that require more people. But again this is only my opinion. I really didn't like Eureka. Sure you had a lot of people but mindlessly grinding mobs to spawn boring fates was really tedious. Right now I'm enjoying Bozja a lot more because encounters spawn way faster and are actually somewhat challenging and the social factor is even bigger in my opinion. I've had more conversations in Bozja for the past few days than in Eureka for a month. I think that the cooperation to down something that's actually somewhat challenging and requires some attention is the reason but I might be wrong. This all is why I also don't enjoy deep dungeons. They feel very samey and boring to me. I've done PotD once to floor 180 with 3 other friends and that was kind of fun just because we were together. The actual content wasn't fun in my opinion. That's why I'll never do a solo run, I just find it boring. I do savage raids and what not because you have the challenge and also the social aspect. I still haven't done anything in EW so I have no idea how the relic grind is done there. I believe there is a sweet spot, somewhere in the middle, not too grindy but not without any grind at all. But I absolutely think that they should encourage cooperation and socializing during the grind because everything is more fun with friends. Again this is only a single opinion. I do not disagree with anyone. You can like what you like and you are not wrong to do so. Just sharing my thoughts.
i have so much to do and catch up on this game i am 3 months in just lost my (its okay if you f**k up) symbol i understand people who been playing this since 10? years have maybe nothing to do but i am somehow glad i can just pick up a good weapon and have fun at max level without farming for that too expremely long, besides the manderville questline since arr wasn't really a walk in the park to complete too, and this game has sooo much to do and grind and unlock i am pretty sure nobody could really do 100% of everything in it, bit i still wish there will be a mmorpg as good as ffxiv coming out soon where i can be active from the very start and be a OG like wesk here, something build up like ffxiv but in a cyberpunk 2077 kind of future world would be a absolute dream
The relic grinds are too tedious, I got past a few steps on one ARR & HW weapon but it ended up being to much to continue with. It's not hard to do, just boring. I think they should have been tied to more difficult, but less time-consuming tasks. Take for example, what if they rebalanced a few boss fights so that you had to clear them solo with the specific weapon. Beating all of them with a certain class would demonstrate a mastery worthy of the prize. Clearing the same content over & over is just a time-waster imo.
So, Savage content
@@WeskAlber I guess so? Anything other than the braindead grind it currently is.
I think erp should be a step in relic grind, at least its more social than just afk like you said :)
But serious answer, i dont mind specific steps again than just general tomes, though i do not mind collecting tomes FIRST then do specific steps like go do variant dungeons, EW fate bosses, Nier raids and specific EW dungeons.
and then i dunno Island Sanctuary for fun because it is casual content right so might as well.
I do most content including EX and savage except for Ultimates (lack of time, cannot commit a schedule currently)
I've done all the relics especially Anima, Atma, Eureka and Bozja, i hope before the actual patch comes they would have changed things and the interview was just a translation issue copium.
I know im late to this but you are 100% right its very important i hope we get a good grind again in Dawntrial!
Im not a big relic weapon grinder. But changing the big expansion weapon to nothing was a bad call. Next expansion lets just give out extreme mounts on the first clear to all 8 players wouldnt want there to be too much grind...
I will always look fondly at my ARR PLD relics because of what I had to go through to obtain them. The second I am finished with the EW relics I will never touch them again.
I just don't see how people can pick up and play an MMO, and then when it comes to doing *actual* Multiplayer tasks and activities, they wanna throw their hands up and whine. Congrats, you're taking the "MMO" out of "MMORPG". You aren't meant to sit around and do nothing to earn stuff. You're supposed to engage. IT'S THE ENTIRE POINT OF A AN MMO.
If there's one thing I can thank Endwalker for, it's being dry enough in content to let me catch up on the older expacs content, since I started playing half a year before Endwalker came out.
Not gonna lie I would be STOKED if a relic step involved island sanctuary. Hell make a separate grind for specific upgraded Island Sanctuary gathering tools.
Endwalker Relic Weapon is certainly a lot easier than previous relic weapon grind. However, i think one thing is not mentioned is that you need to Mandeville quest. Certainly it is nothing but still a requirement.
I enjoyed the new relic weapon. But i would like some challenge once awhile.
The one-time steps of Resistance Weapons want to know your location.
@@WeskAlber hey, that's a completely different step. And the step after the one step is still a grind.
No I'm saying all of Hildi equates to like one one-time step from ShB
@@WeskAlber oh....ehe
My question is why does it need to be a grind, though? I’m all for having more to do, but myself and many of my friends always fell off the relic map as soon as we got to step 2-3 in the past as now we need to learn a whole new system and gaming etiquette for a specific zone. If you fall behind you’re kinda SOL if you need more people to make it bearable.
My GF and I couldn’t keep up with Bozja and when we did have time it was just the 2 of us and we made what felt like barely a dent with the 2 hours we would have to play. Eventually we caught up to the raids and by then there were so few people doing the content and at the time we could play that we got bottlenecked for weeks
Why did you have to remind me of the Yokai event... SO MANY FATES! And since I've only been playing since 5.3 abouts, I had too get ALL the Yokai in one event...