“What a profound insight. We all need initial guidance to glimpse what is possible-a spark to open our awareness. The hidden truth within us can be accessed through various methods and channels, including psychedelics, which, importantly, are non-addictive. However, the true essence of ‘giving up’ lies in surrendering-not to external forces, but to our inner self, the eternal being that has always existed. This surrender is about ceasing the constant striving, thinking, and seeking, allowing us to rediscover the timeless truth of our Divine nature. Awakening, ultimately, is the realization of this truth-a revelation that comes to each soul in its perfect time, without the need for any external substances or practices.”
but what is meant by this solo jump? Like how would one understand what is meant by this? To go off grid, not indulge in anything related to the topic? And one could even say what is off topic? Byt yeah in a sense i get ya, just feeling like stuff like this should be clarified more.
@@LeeByerly Giving up the known is much harder than the facing the unknown. But you Can do it. Jump. Enlightenment is free, but it will cost you everything.
@@DriftXC Giving up all your ideas, notions and perceptions about enlightenment, and Life while you're at, it is all it takes. Simple, uncomplicated....not easy, but doable
@TomaszTomaszPL thats an argument of a drug user perspective. There is no coherence of being high as possible the gain is quite low compared to a natural integration and healthy mind and body work. One is drunk driving .u get somewhere but what u remember and integrate of the journey is quite mumbled. U understand?
@@RPS3000 Psychedelics are not alcohol or other drugs. Are mind opener. DMT opened my mind to meditation everyday, my life i s much better and I feel waking up.
The psychedelic experience in general is a 'higher risk, higher reward' path. It's suitable for some, and not for others. The reality is, most people simply cannot achieve the insights of (for example) one singular 5Meo-DMT breakthrough experience, even with a lifetime of meditation practice, sans psychedelics. They may achieve other noteworthy insights which are certainly worthwhile, but the results can be slow and patchy. I have run my own bricks and mortar school for the evolution of consciousness for over a decade, incorporating high level trainings in traditional spiritual practice, alongside entheogenic awakening facilitation. I have high-level traditional university qualifications in consciousness studies, and the experience (or "receipts") to back up what I am saying. To suggest that the psychedelic path is akin to "drunk driving" is an extraordinarily low resolution comment.
The vast majority of people should be recommended to try a decent dose of a psychedelic at least once in their life. Our world doesn't suffer because to many people are 'experienced', it is completely the other way round... I really like Rupert - but like many other spiritual aware teachers, he forgets that most people will NEVER in their lifes even come near to a wisdom that would allow them to walk into the spiritual realm without any kind of 'crutches'
I don’t think you got his point. He did not dismiss how helpful these substances can be. He even compares them to reading Meister Eckhart, Ramana, or listening to Bach. His point is - yes, these substances can be great, but from a certain point onward, you have to leave them behind and go naked. I agree with you and I’m sure Rupert does too. Substances provide glimpses into our real nature that one would never experience under the “brain-foggish” hypnotic sobriety of our society. So most people need a facilitator. But as Rupert says, this should be only the trigger, not the path.
@@RogerioLupoArteCientifica Rupert has never taken psychedelics. He's admitted this. I agree with his answer here in general but he really isn't qualified to give an opinion at all. Comparing psychedelics with reading Ramana etc shows just how naive he is in this area. I'm not disputing Ruperts spiritual attainment or the transformational potential reading Ramana etc can have. But Rupert should probably experiment a couple few times before he offers advice on the topic. IMO I believe it would be very very good experience for him.
@@edward6768 well, from his point of view, maybe the naive is you. At least from my point of view that’s the case, which can be explained if you read my comment above. As I said above, reading Rumi, or for example “The Cloud of Unknowing” can lead me to psychedelic-like experiences which are actually way more potent than those triggered by substances. So if you haven’t yet unified all these phenomena, because ultimately all them are one and the same, that’s you being naive.
@@joechip4822 I disagree that the vast majority would be helped- there are many people and populations where psychedelics would not be safe or helpful- bipolar, schizophrenia, borderline, some forms of PTSD - The current movement where they are considered a panacea for almost all ppl is inaccurate and ignorant. Screening is vital as is plenty of time for integration. Integration isn’t just a follow up session- it can require on going support, guidance, and professional therapy. Yes they have their place when set and setting have been carefully and thoroughly considered.
@karenslaughing You don't need to explain things about psychedelics to me - I am dealing with this subject for more than 30 years now from a lot of different perspectives. And the ONE thing that most people get wrong about them - and everybody is repeating this BS over and over again - that people with mental problems like the ones you list - should totally refrain from taking them. The actual truth here is this: This claim arises solely because insurance companies refuse to pay if someone experiences a psychological episode after participating in a study and then claims it was caused by the substance. This even applies if the episode happens months or even years later! For this reason, researchers and study directors exclude individuals with such pre-existing conditions from the outset. However, this is nonsense, and in practice, psychedelics could actually help such individuals quite often. It is simply not pursued by research and medicine because legal departments advise against it.
That’s one of the kinder ways of putting it. However, in the context of the question (ref: peace, shanti,) there is also the understanding certain activities are more enervating than others. Finding these objects, substances, activities, even practices that add to unnecessary enervation has been an important part of quieting down. Not to the exclusion of activity, even occasional enervations, but a deepening, a finding of a foundation below.
It depends on your degree of sensitivity. I experienced both and can assure that reading Rumi and some other authors was sometimes way more potent than my experiences with psychedelics. More potent, I mean, but not more “brutal”. In this sense, psychedelics are necessary for those who are not yet sensitive enough to subtleties. However, on a deeper level, regardless of people’s capacity of perception, reading some books will inevitably cause inner shifts and lead to transformation, even though many people don’t consciously realize it. I had experiences under deep meditative states when even a single raindrop on my head led me to a sort of psychedelic trip and I could realize how the rain can be beneficial to all beings. So everything can lead to inner shifts and evolution, no matter how conscious these shifts can be. But the more conscious these shifts are, the faster and deeper. That’s why our society evolves so slowly. Very few are conscious of the shifts.
@@edward6768 If there is ONE thing in the world you should absolute NOT claim anything about it as long as you haven't experienced it yourself - it is the psychedelic experience. And sex, of course... 😊 And even if you are experienced with lsd and mushrooms, DMT is still totally different. Nobody can even imagine how otherworldly this feels...
Reading can give you so much, but very rarely can it help induce an experiential understanding of the things you're reading about. Psychedelics can. To imply that everything that psychedelics can do -- which we're only scratching the surface of in the West -- is the equivalent of reading and that psychedelics are merely books rather than technologies that can help catalyze the very experiences those books speak of is little more than Rupert showing his bias for his preferred method of achieving these states. Psychedelics aren't a panacea; neither is mediatation. But psychedelics can democratize access to meditative states, which 'normally' can take lifetimes of dedication to achieve. Many spiritual cultures of the past -- from Egypt to India to Tibet to Greece to the Americas and more -- were psychedelically inclined. That's an extremely important thing to understand, especially in a world that seems to be willfully spiraling into greater darkness (i.e., ignorance).
There is nothing there, in the moment, but I can remember how I act And I can learn to determine the actions of the insect, the emotions and the sound brain
@@chinchilla_462 "I" don't! There is no "I" to perform the function of "knowing" or "not knowing". The infinite is all there is. The infinite may appear as knowing. Or not knowing. The infinite may appear as anything. Even this. 🙂
@@gregmixing I do hope that's genuine. Take care my friend, people seem to get stuck on a view of emptiness quite easily. Tozan's fifth rank is a powerful pointing there. No rejection whatsoever of ways of speaking and utilizing concepts. Moving seamlessly in relative and absolute, without distinction
When we - abruptly or progressively- realize we are constantly looking for outside 'distractions' - however gross or subtles -, we can come back to ourselves, as we are and have always been ... Indeed, there is no path
Once you've found the sacred in the mundane, which is always accessible to you in this present moment, life becomes the trip and the desire to take psychedelics diminishes. They're just another attachment at the end of the day.
Very interesting to read and learn what you guys in the comments thought of this video and the title. So I’ll throw in my two cents. I’ve explored with psychedelics a fair amount and I can honestly say they have not greatly impacted my sober state, under the influence of various substances sure, I can feel the presence of god, I can feel inexpressible beauty. But, the key thing is here, it’s fleeting, it’s momentary, it’s not fixed. Whereas, the practice of presence, the awareness of awareness, the ability to be consciously aware, the practice of this awareness is not fleeting, it’s always available no matter the state of the body/mind. Acid at smaller dosages is about the only compound which I can say that even slightly compared to this, and kinda acts to induce awareness (none subjective/objective awareness) “being”. All the best all, merry Christmas!
Agreed. Every thing we “do” is fleeting, including meditation. It doesn’t matter what you do, it’s how you live in between that matters. All of those things are tools to help us live with awareness.
I think he's probably on to something. I use cannabis frequently (daily) to experience a period of "less me". But I'm starting to see how it is just keeping me seeking after experiences at this point. I've received the same insights thousands of times. Maybe I don't really need to keep chasing them.
If Spira wants to be logically consistent here, he would also have to accept that one should eschew listening to speakers such as himself, because (according to him)… partaking of psychedelic medicines or ceremonies is only about as useful as reading the spiritual greats… and thus, only about as useful as listening to a self styled spiritual teacher such as himself. But if listening to Spira must also be “given up” in order for his argument to remain logically consistent… then we are in a loop, since we are required to “give up” the advice to “give up” psychedelics. Ultimately, I get the sense Spira actually has little clue what he is pontificating about here. It’s the boring attitude of one who has likely never had an depth of engagement with psychedelics himself whatsoever.
Thanks for your comment - He does eschew listening to teachers (which would include himself) 'at some point'. He says most people need some external guidance at least initially and then at some point one needs to give up listening to external sources to verify the nondual understanding for themselves. So this isn't a loop - its a linear path of external guidance initially, concluding with self-guidance. Also, the question was only about how useful psychedelics are for an abiding realisation of nonduality. He isn't commenting on their other potential uses (therapy, creativity, connection etc) Its a very specific question about what he has observed to be useful, having spent several decades in communities of people seeking an abiding nondual understanding, which does not require him to have any personal psychedelic experience to answer.
One time I saw a video that suggested I stop watching this video and head outside. I never got back to the rest of that video but I'm glad I came across it.
@@adventuresinawareness You're welcome. Thanks for responding. My original comment is based on what he says here in this video, not in other videos which may or may not exist, the references to which are not provided here. You mention that he does eschew "listening to teachers (which would include himself) 'at some point'." Well, he certainly doesn't mention that here. If that is true, I guess that's great. But then, even if I accept on good faith what you mention, my point still remains... if we indulge Rupert's position... then listening to him, or taking a psychedelic for self-enquiry, is on about equal footing epistemically, in terms of usefulness vis-a-vis arriving at non-duality-induced peace and realisation. But he doesn't emphasize that. Indeed, there is a deep lack of humility in the way Rupert speaks, that strikes a massive bum note with me. He speaks from a place of true ignorance about psychedelics, he doesn't mention his lack of personal knowledge or engagement with them, but he goes on to pontificate about them anyway, as if he is in a position to do so. He also fails to point out (at least here), that people should also 'give up' listening to HIM, in equal measure to 'giving up' psychedelics, if (on his view) they are to rest in the abiding peace of nonduality that he points to. (Honestly, my sense is that Spira is profoundly dissociated, and not remotely a true proponent of fulsome nonduality... someone like Adyashanti, to me, is much more legit, though that's another story). I radically disagree with you that 'having spent several decades in communities of people seeking an abiding nondual understanding' ....does not require him to have any personal psychedelic experience to answer.' That is an absurd statement. That is like saying you have spent several decades watching people eat chocolate, and therefore you know what the internal effect of eating chocolate is. Or that you have spent several decades observing what happens when people go to therapy for a few sessions (lots of crying and often an initial break with their ordinary reality)... but you have never been to therapy yourself... but somehow you believe yourself to be in the position to pontificate on the effects of therapy on nondual realisation. Next level nonsense. And the height of projection and presumptuousness, in my opinion.
@@odettegibbs2238 Thanks for your comment. It’s interesting that we have quite different understandings of this video, even though we’re watching the same thing. I guess that is part of what makes humans so fascinating. In the video, Rupert says: “sooner or later we have to put down our books, we have to put down our substances we have to just close our eyes and go there in our own experience not aided by someone or something else” To me, this puts psychedelics, music and teachings on equal footing: something that can be useful initially but to be let go of eventually. Since Rupert is ‘someone else,’ to me it's obvious that he is including himself as something to let go of. I could be wrong, but I would be very surprised. In regards to you not liking him: (I hope you take this as a friendly comment) different teachers resonate with different people - maybe life will be more fun if you stick with videos of the people you like? Some people like Adyashanti, some like Rupert, some people like watching football. I hope everyone finds the resources that they need at any given time. In regards to if it's absurd for him to even answer the question because “it is like saying you have spent several decades watching people eat chocolate, and therefore you know what the internal effect of eating chocolate is”: If I want to study how useful a substance is for pain relief, I can make conclusions based on what people report, I don’t have to take the drug myself, or even know what it feels like to take the drug. The assumption I’m making with my question is that people probably talk with Rupert about what has helped them in their journey towards nondual understanding, and a bunch of them probably tried psychedelics. Seems a reasonable assumption to me, but I could be wrong. You might find this article I wrote about psychedelics and enlightenment interesting, in which I tried to review many points of view: psychedelicsociety.org.uk/media/psychedelics-meditation-amp-enlightenment-part-2 And this playlist with more extensive discussion: ua-cam.com/play/PL7BoM7i7vUzuFIUzFAq2RAfjPXkKv7PQe.html
It’s not about being addictive. In the spiritual context, one can definitely become dependent on using an exogenous chemical key to open the door and that can prevent people from working towards forging their own. It’s like, psychedelics are a trampoline, you can jump on it and go up real quick but you’ll always come down. There comes a time where if you really want to ascend, you have to get off the trampoline and build your ladder.
This is not a bad analogy at all. However, one must also take into account the fact that even if one jumps on a trampoline once, and becomes privy to a perspective "over the fence" (ie. beyond the veils of ordinary perception) that they did not have before, coming back down to the ground does not arrive that person at the same place psychospiritually as they were before. They return with new insight. That is, they don't simply plop back to baseline. There is a transformation of consciousness that can happen in a relative "instant", which might otherwise require a lifetime of ladder-building, with no understanding of where that ladder was really taking one to. Pragmatically speaking, almost no-one accesses the states that are routinely accessed via psychedelics by mere 'ladder building'... either they don't have the skills to build a ladder, thereby building a shoddy ladder that fails to support the journey to the peak, or they lack motivation due to (understandably) not really grokking the significance of where the ladder is going. Ideally, as you may be alluding to... there may be a period of trampolining followed by ladder building (this is the case for great visionary leaders who end up transforming society). For some, it is enough to gain the perspective of trampolining, and to humbly integrate that new awareness into everyday life, without the need to build ladders [though I suppose one could argue this represents its own ladder of sorts, meshing the sacred and the mundane, or the sky and the earth (so to speak) as it does, even in humble ways].
The relationships that people have with psychedelic medicine is started to corrupt the individual paths . I’m a huge fan of the medicine but these days at most, I go into ceremony twice a year. Psilocybin is my preference and I use it to release psycho physiological tension. The work is done in real time, the everyday, the mundane not in the peak experience when the default network has been taken off line, so we have a taste of the non dual. There’s no short cut, just a moment to moment application ❤
I'm confused as to why so many people ask Rupert, a man who has never taken psychedelics, what the value of psychedelics are on the spiritual path. He's not qualified to answer this question and he should refrain from doing so.
Hi Edward - thanks for your comment. Here is the response I wrote to a similar comment which you may feel is relevant to your curiosity: "If I observe 10 people go up a mountain and 9 come back with gold, I don't need to go up the mountain myself, or be an expert in mountain climbing to guess that there is gold up there. I just need to know what gold is. Rupert has spent decades around hundreds, (maybe thousands) of people seeking a nondual understanding. People will have shared with him their experiences - what is working for them and what isn't. He doesn't need experience with psychedelics to make general comments about what he has observed, what comes up in conversation, what people report, what his intuition around a given topic is. But also, this isn't a scientific study, this a conversation amongst friends on a wide range of topics. It's ok if you happen to have had different experiences or disagree. I don't agree with everything Rupert, says, I don't think he is an 'authority.' I'm curious about his perspective on a wide range of issues, and these videos are for anyone else that feels the same. I hope you find value in some of the videos, and if not, I hope you find value elsewhere! Best of luck either way"
@@adventuresinawareness This may be true with regards to gold from a mountain and observing people who have experimented does give insight. However, you simply cannot describe adequately a psychedelic experience. It simply must be experienced. With regards to the fact that it's simply a conversation? It's a conversation being shared with thousands who rely quite a bit on Ruperts opinion. Nevertheless, I withdraw my comment that he shouldn't be discussing them at all. But he should always disclose that he's never experienced psychedelics. Thank you for your reply.
@@edward6768 thanks for your reply. I felt Rupert's answer it was nuanced and also inline with what I've observed working for the Psychedelic Society for the last 7 years. I have met 100s of people who take psychedelics. The vast majority do not transition to an abiding recognition of nonduality, although it does help some get a glimpse. To be fair, many don't even get a temporary glimpse that is clear enough to be useful in the future. That doesn't mean they don't get other benefits from the experience - but the question here was quite specific about non dual understanding. Most other teachers I've researched say something similar, and many of them have taken psychedelics. I wrote an article for the Psychedelic Society on the subject a few years ago that some might find useful or interesting: psychedelicsociety.org.uk/media/psychedelics-meditation-amp-enlightenment-part-2 By the way, I didn't know Rupert hadn't taken psychedelics - is he on record as saying this? I personally know researchers and teachers who take psychedelics, but for a variety of reasons won't say so publicly, so I generally don't bother asking, and in this case, I don't think it matter much. Thanks again 🙏
@@edward6768 Respectfully, your claim is patently illogical and disproven in countless ways by every person on earth in our day-to-day experience with countless subject areas. I would respectfully submit he’s much more qualified than someone such as yourself to comment on the efficacy of psychedelics for achieving a stable realization of true nature because he already resides at the “destination” you and others (presumably) are seeking through the use of psychedelics. He doesn’t have to travel every path to a particular destination to recognize the destination itself or to share the commonality of experience with others at the same destination who have arrived via different paths.
If you have to give up experience to go to a non-experience (nirvana), which means you have to give up ALL experiences, including psychedelic experiences, then the activity of knowing and knowledge has to be let go of (left-brain).
They weren't part of his path, so he doesn't know much about them and doesn't advocate them. And/but, he's correct that eventually they should probably be left behind.
After learning the realities about spirituality this year, I sort of went there naked in my first ever intense lucid dream (which was inside another dream). Now trying to learn meditation to go there again, otherwise I’ll consider psychedelics as I’ve heard great things.
@@JonasAnandaKristiansson Mooji is a self-aggrandising shill, with reams and reams of testimonies online about his shady sexual antics and power trips with devoted female followers. Hardly the 'real deal'. Better try the psychedelic path (in a safe container, after doing thorough research and ensuring no medical contraindications) and get the direct experience, rather than going through a spiritually pontificating, posturing, egomaniacal middleman.
Alone and sober. It is always good to have more experience but it is not a must. Jumping on the deep water without a contexts can be devastating. DMT will do the thing correctly but you will face yourself naked in an instant. Micro dosing of Amanita muscaria should be good enough and healthy. The key is the state of mind when you are fully sober. I have been on the path like since my childhood. Strange thing. All is around you. Try to attract it via your thoughts towards you and then deep it into yourself. It is flat plain filled with structure and colors, already present manifestation of consciousness. Erase it and you will see emptiness. It's nothing there. On this still plain things start to appear from the source. This is the break through. It speaks different language. I went there without any teachings, without any psychedelics. I know it was my higher self, but I listened. When you start doing it, those teachers, gurus, monks and fellow souls appear in you life accordingly. It is amazing. Being here and discerning those things is already a mile stone. We can't be closer to the truth because we are the truth.
All the butthurt people in the comments. I've been doing all kinds of psychedelics for more than 10 years and it's simply true that despite that they can show you something, at some point it has to be the "journey" from just yourself to yourself, without crutches, without a rocket that takes you there. Rupert Doesn't need to be an expert on psychedelics or even have done them once to know that external substances and such can only give you a temporarily glimpse. Because you didn't do it yourself.
Cool. So… I guess eating food and breathing air, and being born from our mother’s wombs are all spiritually verboten now because they are tantamount to “relying on something outside of ourselves” 🥴 These arguments are so ridiculous. The “self” is never an isolated silo of self sufficiency.
Love and compassion to all unmet physical, mental, emotional needs and desires and love and compassion to all needs, desires that are being met in unhealthy, unconscious, subconscious, manipulative, fearful ways. Humans can meet needs, desires in conscious, healthy ways and then Humans will consciously create Heaven on Earth. My experience 🌎😘
Non-ordinary states of consciousness, facilitated by organic matter, have been around for millennia. The fact that LSD (one of literally thousands of psychedelic compounds) was not yet synthesized during the age of the Buddha is a meaningless statement.
I am seeing a lot of anger, and defensiveness (and frankly spiritual ego) in the comments, I just wanted to give my two cents on this topic. As someone whose spiritual journey started with psychedelics and as someone who still indulges in them for growth, healing and learning lessons I recognise the beauty and acceleration that can come with them, but I also see that they can only take you so far, firstly because we should beware of fools gold, but even beyond that because it is 'A method' of getting to self-realisation. If you wish to go all the way on this path, recognise that all methods are traps, including holy scriptures, music, psychedelics and even meditation. Psychedelics are an interesting one because as Maharaji once said to Ram Dass, they allow you to "Be with Christ, but you can only stay for a few hours" I recognise the truth in what Rupert is saying about needing to be naked and come face to face with the beloved without any methods. Just pure experience, I AM'ness. Namaste, my fellow journeymen. I wish you ease of suffering on this path!
Psychedelics especially dmt are trampoline. Ones you get there you know the path. After the trip is easier to get there through meditation. Everything is much easier to understand.
i often see the absurdity of these proclamations against taking psychedelics by turning it around and saying the same thing about "meditation". Talking about it in that manner is entirely missing the point.
Exactly. If using psychedelics as a tool for self enquiring is “relying on something outside of yourself”, then so too is using learnt techniques of meditation. I mean, FFS, even eating is “relying on something outside of yourself”. But then again, Rupert, if reality is all one, as you claim, then the psychedelics ARE yourself.
@@adventuresinawareness Ummm... the fact that Spira is literally suggesting to "give up" psychedelics. I mean... if you want to be granular, he is claiming you should give them up IF you want to access non-dual self-realisation (utter nonsense IMO, but that's his claim). But Spira's implication is clear: give up psychedelics and gain eternal wisdom, or don't, and be an unenlightened dolt, swimming in the torrid soups of maya forever instead. I mean, whether explicit or implicit (and it's both), you could hardly argue this ISN'T a proclamation against taking psychedelics.
@@odettegibbs2238 Perhaps the way we titled the video is making it seem more polemic than it is. The title is just to get people watching - the video is far more nuanced. I'm wondering if people are responding to the title without actually watching the video? He acknowledges that psychedelics can be useful initially, similar to his favorite spiritual teachings and music. This hardly seems like a proclamation against taking psychedelics! He then goes on to say that for a genuine abiding understanding of nonduality, at some point we need to put all those things aside and look within. This seems like common sense to me - if someone only understands something when in an altered state, when listening to music, when with their favorite teacher, then have they really understood? He doesn't even say you have to give up psychedelics for all time. I'm sure he hasn't given up reading nondual books or listening to Bach. It's just that endless books or altered states won't give you what unguided self-reflection will, in his opinion. Makes sense to me, but each to their own I guess.
@@adventuresinawareness I totally understand that the UA-cam algo Gods tend to favour a polemic title, and that sometimes titles (almost of necessity these days) present a more inflammatory front than is actually contained in the content of a video :) But at least as far as I am concerned, my comments certainly do not derive from the title alone, but from the content of Spira's own commentary, which I don't find "nuanced" in any way, shape or form. Quite the contrary. It is by no means common sense - and in fact is actually tautological when applied to non-dual understanding - to suggest that someone 'give up' something that is (supposedly) "outside of oneself". A true non-dualist would understand that the psychedelics ARE comprised of the exact same consciousness that IS your self. Therefore, in an abiding nondual state, there is nothing ultimately "outside of oneself". However, even if we are speaking not from the level of unity consciousness, but from the level of fragmented ego-consciousness (since that is effectively where spiritually-seeking humans begin); to make didactic proclamations that we must give up certain things that are "outside of ourselves", such as psychedelics or Bach, but to implicitly accept that we continue to rely upon other things, such as food, water, oxygen, and so on, that are no less "outside of ourselves" is simply biased conditioning. It's a shallow position, that unjustifiably says "food approved", "psychedelics maligned". Both are equally "outside of ourselves", from the level of separated ego consciousness. (And both are equally within ourselves from the level of infinite unity consciousness.) Spira's position is really no more interesting, valid or deep than Mr Hanky on South Park stating "Drugs are bad, m'kay". And the idea that we must put certain (Spira-proscribed) things "aside" and "look within", presumes (baselessly) that psychedelics, or indeed Bach, are always distractions and never conduits to self realisation. It is true that anything can be a distraction in certain contexts - but this also include so-called "looking within". I have seen many more people get spiritually side-tracked with constipated practices of "looking within" than I have seen people get distracted by psychedelics. As mentioned in a previous comment here, you only have to look to studies such as the Good Friday experiment to see that even one psychedelic journey can have deeply abiding impacts on self realisation that last for decades, in a large proportion of people. I'm sorry, but one session of 'looking within' will simply NOT have that same impact statistically (ie. in almost all people). I say this having run my own bricks and mortar school for the evolution of consciousness for more than a decade, and myself having taught thousands of students face to face who are on an awakening path. Psychedelics, administered in intelligent contexts, while not for everyone, are simply a much more efficient and reliable path to non-dual realisation than simply "looking within". Most people are so mired by inner conditioning that "looking within", absent of any other framework, is merely a hall of mirrors, and generally much less revelatory than a psychedelic state. "Looking within" in a vaccuum absolutely won't lead to realisation at all, except in the most fractional of minority cases (and even then, I would venture, something had probably primed that person to be looking with a particularly benefactory lens, or to be open in just the right way to new perception). Something is needed to pierce the veil for the vast majority of people. In fact, it is usually those who eschew psychedelics without having ever experienced them that I find completely incapable of deep self-realisation. They mistake shallowness and dissociation for "calm" and "stability", but actually their subconscious being has never truly been encountered. In the same manner as they reject the depth of opportunity for mind-manifestation that psychedelics present, they concomitantly tend to reject the messy and inconvenient truths of their being (and the being of others), in favour of a goody-two-shoes version of slightly smug and smarmy spiritual dogma. In my own experience, I have found they are the most likely to - like Spira - make blanket commentary on what a person must or must not do (ie. must "give up") in order to be "spiritually awake". The great irony being that they are in no position to even be commenting on the matter, as they are ignorant of what lies on the other side of what they refuse to encounter due to (typically) their own mental projections, conditioning and - I'll just say it - personal cowardice and lack of spiritual courage. Again, I am astonished that anyone thinks Spira is a "realised" person. To me, he spouts simply the most boring and trite platitudes, that reveal very little depth, and a lot of ingrained dogmatism. That said, in order for my own position to remain consistent, I duly acknowledge that Spira - and his trite and boring proclamations - is/are an aspect of the totality of consciousness that is ultimately myself (and, I venture, yourself) at the deepest level. So, yeah, Spira's spiritual constipation and insufferable all-knowing attitude is also a part of me, too ;) I get it. Ah, the great paradoxes of non-duality.
Psychedelics make you feel like your tripping. Religion makes you feel like your fallen. Literature makes it feel like you stumbled. We are at a loss for words and blind to the reality that raised us. Catching our balance has become a dance that is broken. Jesus catches us by our feet because we are head over heels for life. But they need washing due to not watching where you were stepping.
Is UA-cam censoring commentary here, or is it you, Adventures in Awareness? I have had a number of well-considered comments on this thread censored - why? Are others having a similar experience?
Hi Odette, I sometimes remove comments that are obviously spam or go against the community guidelines for respectful communication. I don't believe I've removed any of yours, (actually I wrote quite lengthy replies to some of your comments.) The order in which comments appears seems to change quite a bit, so maybe your comments show up in places you don't expect. I can see there are some further down. There is a chance a comment got deleted if was a reply to a comment that was deleted for going against community guidelines, but I don't think that was the case, but there doesn't seem to be a way to check deleted comments. If I inadvertently deleted something you wrote I apologise, but as mentioned, I don't think this was the case.
@@adventuresinawareness Thanks for replying. If that's the case, then it seems to me that UA-cam must be deleting my comments. Very odd. Nothing in them that should go against "community guidelines". Though who even knows what the criteria for those are anyway. They seem almost entirely arbitrary. It's a worrying trend.
@@odettegibbs2238 maybe if a post looks like it is advocating psychedelics it gets picked up by AI bot moderators and deleted... don't know... I see lots of comments pro-psychedelic so could be something else. I do see several of your comments below, do you think many were deleted?
I'm kind of surprised how many of the comments seem to respond to this like its authoritarian demands. Like maybe after 20 years plant some mushrooms for someone else and spend more than a weekend sober, if not in this lifetime in the next. Its a take it or leave it, and Im not ready for this, but who the fuck cares.
This seems naive (perhaps because Mr Spira has never taken a classic psychedelic-has he?): unlike reading Meister Eckhart or Ramana Maharshi, true psychedelics (LSD, mescaline, psilocybin, DMT) provide a __direct__ experience, which may then be attempted to be put into words (Eckhart’s, Maharshi’s, …). In the language of Tibetan Buddhism, psychedelics may (no guarantees) provide “example wisdom”, which may be a useful part of an ongoing upaya (skillful means) to realization in everyday life.
Exactly. I am astonished that Spira is taken to be some sort of "realised" person, when his analyses and general attitude reveal such utter naievete and shallowness. But all with the pomp and posture of being in a position to speak on matters he knows nothing about.
We don’t. He’s just sharing his opinion, which to me comes across as ragingly uneducated, presumptuous and lacking in nuance. To others, who want to get googoo-eyed at someone like Spira (usually due to their own lack of personal depth of engagement with the subject matter, and lack of self worth, resulting in projection of guru status onto another)… well, that’s their prerogative I guess 🤷🏻♀️
YOU are truth,you can’t get it from any book,person,guru,spiritual teacher,look at the difference between what thought says about reality,and how you find reality to actually be?
I'm curious which part of this video (if any) you thought made Rupert an arbiter for what is correct? He's just sharing an opinion, informed by several decades of sharing perspectives and observing people in communities that seek a non-dual understanding of life. Doesn't make him an authority, but for some it makes his opinion worth taking into account.
@@adventuresinawareness “spiritual teachers “ are nothing more than frauds,and they make their money off the BELIEF that the truth is something you need to be taught .
It’s bloomingly obvious he is not an expert on psychedelics. Perhaps someone like Martin Ball would be a better authority in the realms of psychedelics and nonduality. Honestly, I am curious why you deigned to ask Spira this question at all, given that (at least prima facie) asking in the first place implies to a certain degree that you assume he has the requisite knowledge base to have anything substantively valid to say on this? I mean, it’s like asking what being multiorgasmic is to someone who has no sex life, and maybe had a weak orgasm once…
I dont get the hype. Taking them was completely meaningless and non impactful in my experience. Sure, it can be fun, but youre deluded if you think putting yourself in that state of mind is useful.
Sooo... you had a shallow experience, and therefore you project your own shallow experience onto the state of others, and describe states of consciousness that you clearly never experienced as "deluded". This is like someone climbing a kiddie's jungle gym, then not understanding why people may find the experience of summiting Mt Everest to be sublime or benefactory in any way (though, admittedly, not without risks and challenges).
@@Diomedes99 Hardly. You made a reductive and ill-educated comment, which projected the shallowness of your personal encounters with altered states onto others. You’re just egoically aggrieved that someone pointed out that obvious fact. Indeed it’s ironic that you project onto others the slur of “cult” mentality, when your own commentary embodies the exact essence of cultishness - assuming that your own limited experiences and belief system applies to all others. To be clear, I take no issue with you suggesting that you didn’t find psychedelics useful personally. That’s your prerogative. But to project your own limited experience of shallowness and meaninglessness onto the rest of humanity at large is the exact thing cult members do. So no so sir, if anyone is culty, it’s you.
What a ridiculous title… as if anyone had to “give up” psychedelics… they’re not addictive (except for Ketamine… apparently… which I don’t understand… it’s as profound as any other classical psychedelic) and the experience is typically an introspective 8-12 hours of both elated, and difficult, ebbs and flows… hardly something someone would ever need to ‘give up’ as the experience itself isn’t an ‘easy’ one, as for instance, cannabis or alcohol are… or perhaps that’s too revealing 😉 then again, Rupert is right in what he says… as a great man said, at one time, “once you understand the message, hang up the phone” so to speak - but until then, keep exploring 😉😏
What I understood is that with psychedelic use, it shouldn’t be the only method you use. I read that a lot, if not most, Tibetan monks have tried substances like LSD. And in fact it was the catalyst for a lot of them becoming monks. But they are not habitual users. The drug was the catalyst but ultimately they understand that the drugs are just that, external catalysts. They can reach the same place naturally and that is the path they undertake. He is just saying that you don’t need to rely on psychs for growth, as that can lead to abuse (there ARE people who get addicted to LSD because they think it’s necessary for their growth); and that you can and should learn how to experience psychedelic like growth without the use of external forces.
They are psychologically addictive. Many people stop using them but they just make them a hobby and community which is just a different kind of addiction. Nothing wrong of course with hobbies and community. These are great aspects of life. The issue is that people engaging with psychedelics think they are practicing spiritual development or worse.. imagine they can teach!
It’s absolutely not a ridiculous title and the fact you so strongly think it is ridiculous just shows that you don’t really understand Rupert’s point and why serious people don’t use psychedelics when pursuing a spiritual path.
Respectfully I thought it was "once you get a message, you DONT hang up the phone" as in once you know something is on the other end, you don't just walk away from the communication...but what do I know also
Please BE WARNED - continued use of psychedelics beyond "enlightenment experiences" can have damaging consequences. These events cause a burst of neuroplasticity during which the brain rewires itself. The presence of mind-altering substances can negatively impact this process. Take it from one who knows
Indeed. And even more the “enlightenment experience” are only counterfeit ones, at best useful as glimpses, but usually turn into self inflation. Dangerous stuff.
@@agedcorsair6707 I would say the peak state experience itself may be real enough but people who operate predominantly at lower stages of development are especially unable to integrate them in a beneficial manner resulting in any of a whole array of psycho-spiritual issues including but lot limited to ego inflation, psychosis, delusion etc. There are of course myriad factors involved in regards to the specifics of the issues that such an individual may face.
@josephgirgis6735 I would largely agree. The traditional "does and don'ts" of most spiritual traditions have the effect of purifying and strengthening the nervous system in preparation for that peak experience. Most eschew psychedelics because they add another unpredictable factor
@odettegibbs2238 bro if you get triggered by Rupert then its because you see him as above you as someone with authority over you. If you see him as a person sharing his truth then I don't see why you'd be triggered like everyone here is. Literally in this video he is telling you to trust yourself and let go of needing knowledge from teachers
I literally just said nobody is triggered by Rupert. They are calling out his BS. There is a difference. So your position is incoherent, brah. If he gets to share “his truth” (which is blatantly and profoundly uneducated on the subject matter he pontificates about), then why are you triggered that other people are also sharing their “truths” in response? Bro, who hurt you?
Nope. That’s just your way of using an ad hominem because you are a Spira fan boy, but you don’t have any legitimate arguments to counter people’s spot on refutations of his presumptuous and ill educated nonsense.
I was pretty messed up from being in a car full of fumes as a child, and kind of kept that going as an adult. I'm definitely an example of someone who ran head first into pain like it was actually searching for truth. I'm actually exactly the kind of person this is referencing. I've also seen people stop taking LSD because it was hard for them to find themselves empathising with people in their life they had been treating badly without even realising. Others just find it a waste of time and would rather be learning a skill or being productive. It's not for everyone!
“What a profound insight. We all need initial guidance to glimpse what is possible-a spark to open our awareness. The hidden truth within us can be accessed through various methods and channels, including psychedelics, which, importantly, are non-addictive. However, the true essence of ‘giving up’ lies in surrendering-not to external forces, but to our inner self, the eternal being that has always existed. This surrender is about ceasing the constant striving, thinking, and seeking, allowing us to rediscover the timeless truth of our Divine nature. Awakening, ultimately, is the realization of this truth-a revelation that comes to each soul in its perfect time, without the need for any external substances or practices.”
You must eventually give him up also. When you are urged to sign up for another seminar, you are putting off that solo jump into the abyss once again
Gulp
but what is meant by this solo jump? Like how would one understand what is meant by this? To go off grid, not indulge in anything related to the topic? And one could even say what is off topic?
Byt yeah in a sense i get ya, just feeling like stuff like this should be clarified more.
@@LeeByerly Giving up the known is much harder than the facing the unknown. But you Can do it. Jump. Enlightenment is free, but it will cost you everything.
@@DriftXC Giving up all your ideas, notions and perceptions about enlightenment, and Life while you're at, it is all it takes. Simple, uncomplicated....not easy, but doable
@DriftXC psychedelics are the best way I know to initiate spiritual awakening. Cannabis, especially edible, Mushrooms, Lsd, Dmt, mescaline, peyote.
I understand what he is saying. Psychedelics are kicking in doors.finding a key within to open them is growing up
There is no difference when both of them standing on finish line. Win is win.
@TomaszTomaszPL thats an argument of a drug user perspective. There is no coherence of being high as possible the gain is quite low compared to a natural integration and healthy mind and body work. One is drunk driving .u get somewhere but what u remember and integrate of the journey is quite mumbled. U understand?
@@RPS3000 Psychedelics are not alcohol or other drugs. Are mind opener. DMT opened my mind to meditation everyday, my life i s much better and I feel waking up.
The psychedelic experience in general is a 'higher risk, higher reward' path. It's suitable for some, and not for others. The reality is, most people simply cannot achieve the insights of (for example) one singular 5Meo-DMT breakthrough experience, even with a lifetime of meditation practice, sans psychedelics. They may achieve other noteworthy insights which are certainly worthwhile, but the results can be slow and patchy.
I have run my own bricks and mortar school for the evolution of consciousness for over a decade, incorporating high level trainings in traditional spiritual practice, alongside entheogenic awakening facilitation. I have high-level traditional university qualifications in consciousness studies, and the experience (or "receipts") to back up what I am saying.
To suggest that the psychedelic path is akin to "drunk driving" is an extraordinarily low resolution comment.
@@odettegibbs2238 and yet, at some point, one must give that up. Major psychedelic enthusiast speaking here... I love them.
The vast majority of people should be recommended to try a decent dose of a psychedelic at least once in their life. Our world doesn't suffer because to many people are 'experienced', it is completely the other way round...
I really like Rupert - but like many other spiritual aware teachers, he forgets that most people will NEVER in their lifes even come near to a wisdom that would allow them to walk into the spiritual realm without any kind of 'crutches'
I don’t think you got his point. He did not dismiss how helpful these substances can be. He even compares them to reading Meister Eckhart, Ramana, or listening to Bach.
His point is - yes, these substances can be great, but from a certain point onward, you have to leave them behind and go naked.
I agree with you and I’m sure Rupert does too. Substances provide glimpses into our real nature that one would never experience under the “brain-foggish” hypnotic sobriety of our society. So most people need a facilitator. But as Rupert says, this should be only the trigger, not the path.
@@RogerioLupoArteCientifica Rupert has never taken psychedelics. He's admitted this. I agree with his answer here in general but he really isn't qualified to give an opinion at all. Comparing psychedelics with reading Ramana etc shows just how naive he is in this area. I'm not disputing Ruperts spiritual attainment or the transformational potential reading Ramana etc can have. But Rupert should probably experiment a couple few times before he offers advice on the topic. IMO I believe it would be very very good experience for him.
@@edward6768 well, from his point of view, maybe the naive is you. At least from my point of view that’s the case, which can be explained if you read my comment above.
As I said above, reading Rumi, or for example “The Cloud of Unknowing” can lead me to psychedelic-like experiences which are actually way more potent than those triggered by substances. So if you haven’t yet unified all these phenomena, because ultimately all them are one and the same, that’s you being naive.
@@joechip4822 I disagree that the vast majority would be helped- there are many people and populations where psychedelics would not be safe or helpful- bipolar, schizophrenia, borderline, some forms of PTSD - The current movement where they are considered a panacea for almost all ppl is inaccurate and ignorant. Screening is vital as is plenty of time for integration. Integration isn’t just a follow up session- it can require on going support, guidance, and professional therapy. Yes they have their place when set and setting have been carefully and thoroughly considered.
@karenslaughing
You don't need to explain things about psychedelics to me - I am dealing with this subject for more than 30 years now from a lot of different perspectives. And the ONE thing that most people get wrong about them - and everybody is repeating this BS over and over again - that people with mental problems like the ones you list - should totally refrain from taking them. The actual truth here is this:
This claim arises solely because insurance companies refuse to pay if someone experiences a psychological episode after participating in a study and then claims it was caused by the substance. This even applies if the episode happens months or even years later! For this reason, researchers and study directors exclude individuals with such pre-existing conditions from the outset.
However, this is nonsense, and in practice, psychedelics could actually help such individuals quite often. It is simply not pursued by research and medicine because legal departments advise against it.
That’s one of the kinder ways of putting it. However, in the context of the question (ref: peace, shanti,) there is also the understanding certain activities are more enervating than others. Finding these objects, substances, activities, even practices that add to unnecessary enervation has been an important part of quieting down. Not to the exclusion of activity, even occasional enervations, but a deepening, a finding of a foundation below.
Generally agree, but I'd argue that there is a substantial difference between reading a book and taking psilocybin...
@@dmellybelly that's true. I think he meant it in the sense that they're all paths.
It depends on your degree of sensitivity. I experienced both and can assure that reading Rumi and some other authors was sometimes way more potent than my experiences with psychedelics. More potent, I mean, but not more “brutal”. In this sense, psychedelics are necessary for those who are not yet sensitive enough to subtleties.
However, on a deeper level, regardless of people’s capacity of perception, reading some books will inevitably cause inner shifts and lead to transformation, even though many people don’t consciously realize it.
I had experiences under deep meditative states when even a single raindrop on my head led me to a sort of psychedelic trip and I could realize how the rain can be beneficial to all beings. So everything can lead to inner shifts and evolution, no matter how conscious these shifts can be.
But the more conscious these shifts are, the faster and deeper. That’s why our society evolves so slowly. Very few are conscious of the shifts.
Exactly. There is absolutely no getting around that. Rupert admits, he's never experienced psychedelics. So how can he ever give an opinion.
@@edward6768
If there is ONE thing in the world you should absolute NOT claim anything about it as long as you haven't experienced it yourself - it is the psychedelic experience. And sex, of course... 😊
And even if you are experienced with lsd and mushrooms, DMT is still totally different. Nobody can even imagine how otherworldly this feels...
Yyyyyyyyyyeah.
Reading can give you so much, but very rarely can it help induce an experiential understanding of the things you're reading about. Psychedelics can. To imply that everything that psychedelics can do -- which we're only scratching the surface of in the West -- is the equivalent of reading and that psychedelics are merely books rather than technologies that can help catalyze the very experiences those books speak of is little more than Rupert showing his bias for his preferred method of achieving these states. Psychedelics aren't a panacea; neither is mediatation. But psychedelics can democratize access to meditative states, which 'normally' can take lifetimes of dedication to achieve. Many spiritual cultures of the past -- from Egypt to India to Tibet to Greece to the Americas and more -- were psychedelically inclined. That's an extremely important thing to understand, especially in a world that seems to be willfully spiraling into greater darkness (i.e., ignorance).
Well put.
There is no path. YOU are the path.
There is no you.
How do you know?
There is nothing there, in the moment, but I can remember how I act
And I can learn to determine the actions of the insect, the emotions and the sound brain
@@chinchilla_462 "I" don't!
There is no "I" to perform the function of "knowing" or "not knowing".
The infinite is all there is. The infinite may appear as knowing. Or not knowing.
The infinite may appear as anything.
Even
this. 🙂
@@gregmixing I do hope that's genuine.
Take care my friend, people seem to get stuck on a view of emptiness quite easily.
Tozan's fifth rank is a powerful pointing there. No rejection whatsoever of ways of speaking and utilizing concepts. Moving seamlessly in relative and absolute, without distinction
in short, sometimes you gotta stop listening to others and just listen to self.
When we - abruptly or progressively- realize we are constantly looking for outside 'distractions' - however gross or subtles -, we can come back to ourselves, as we are and have always been ... Indeed, there is no path
Once you've found the sacred in the mundane, which is always accessible to you in this present moment, life becomes the trip and the desire to take psychedelics diminishes.
They're just another attachment at the end of the day.
No less an “attachment” than the attachment to claiming psychedelics are an attachment.
Very interesting to read and learn what you guys in the comments thought of this video and the title. So I’ll throw in my two cents.
I’ve explored with psychedelics a fair amount and I can honestly say they have not greatly impacted my sober state, under the influence of various substances sure, I can feel the presence of god, I can feel inexpressible beauty. But, the key thing is here, it’s fleeting, it’s momentary, it’s not fixed. Whereas, the practice of presence, the awareness of awareness, the ability to be consciously aware, the practice of this awareness is not fleeting, it’s always available no matter the state of the body/mind. Acid at smaller dosages is about the only compound which I can say that even slightly compared to this, and kinda acts to induce awareness (none subjective/objective awareness) “being”.
All the best all, merry Christmas!
Agreed. Every thing we “do” is fleeting, including meditation. It doesn’t matter what you do, it’s how you live in between that matters. All of those things are tools to help us live with awareness.
I think he's probably on to something. I use cannabis frequently (daily) to experience a period of "less me". But I'm starting to see how it is just keeping me seeking after experiences at this point. I've received the same insights thousands of times. Maybe I don't really need to keep chasing them.
I can relate brother
If Spira wants to be logically consistent here, he would also have to accept that one should eschew listening to speakers such as himself, because (according to him)… partaking of psychedelic medicines or ceremonies is only about as useful as reading the spiritual greats… and thus, only about as useful as listening to a self styled spiritual teacher such as himself.
But if listening to Spira must also be “given up” in order for his argument to remain logically consistent… then we are in a loop, since we are required to “give up” the advice to “give up” psychedelics.
Ultimately, I get the sense Spira actually has little clue what he is pontificating about here. It’s the boring attitude of one who has likely never had an depth of engagement with psychedelics himself whatsoever.
Thanks for your comment - He does eschew listening to teachers (which would include himself) 'at some point'. He says most people need some external guidance at least initially and then at some point one needs to give up listening to external sources to verify the nondual understanding for themselves.
So this isn't a loop - its a linear path of external guidance initially, concluding with self-guidance.
Also, the question was only about how useful psychedelics are for an abiding realisation of nonduality. He isn't commenting on their other potential uses (therapy, creativity, connection etc) Its a very specific question about what he has observed to be useful, having spent several decades in communities of people seeking an abiding nondual understanding, which does not require him to have any personal psychedelic experience to answer.
One time I saw a video that suggested I stop watching this video and head outside. I never got back to the rest of that video but I'm glad I came across it.
@@natclo9229 lol. I've also appreciated those videos. I wonder what happens at the end of them.
@@adventuresinawareness You're welcome. Thanks for responding. My original comment is based on what he says here in this video, not in other videos which may or may not exist, the references to which are not provided here. You mention that he does eschew "listening to teachers (which would include himself) 'at some point'." Well, he certainly doesn't mention that here. If that is true, I guess that's great.
But then, even if I accept on good faith what you mention, my point still remains... if we indulge Rupert's position... then listening to him, or taking a psychedelic for self-enquiry, is on about equal footing epistemically, in terms of usefulness vis-a-vis arriving at non-duality-induced peace and realisation. But he doesn't emphasize that.
Indeed, there is a deep lack of humility in the way Rupert speaks, that strikes a massive bum note with me. He speaks from a place of true ignorance about psychedelics, he doesn't mention his lack of personal knowledge or engagement with them, but he goes on to pontificate about them anyway, as if he is in a position to do so. He also fails to point out (at least here), that people should also 'give up' listening to HIM, in equal measure to 'giving up' psychedelics, if (on his view) they are to rest in the abiding peace of nonduality that he points to. (Honestly, my sense is that Spira is profoundly dissociated, and not remotely a true proponent of fulsome nonduality... someone like Adyashanti, to me, is much more legit, though that's another story).
I radically disagree with you that 'having spent several decades in communities of people seeking an abiding nondual understanding' ....does not require him to have any personal psychedelic experience to answer.' That is an absurd statement. That is like saying you have spent several decades watching people eat chocolate, and therefore you know what the internal effect of eating chocolate is. Or that you have spent several decades observing what happens when people go to therapy for a few sessions (lots of crying and often an initial break with their ordinary reality)... but you have never been to therapy yourself... but somehow you believe yourself to be in the position to pontificate on the effects of therapy on nondual realisation. Next level nonsense. And the height of projection and presumptuousness, in my opinion.
@@odettegibbs2238 Thanks for your comment.
It’s interesting that we have quite different understandings of this video, even though we’re watching the same thing. I guess that is part of what makes humans so fascinating.
In the video, Rupert says: “sooner or later we have to put down our books, we have to put down our substances we have to just close our eyes and go there in our own experience not aided by someone or something else”
To me, this puts psychedelics, music and teachings on equal footing: something that can be useful initially but to be let go of eventually.
Since Rupert is ‘someone else,’ to me it's obvious that he is including himself as something to let go of. I could be wrong, but I would be very surprised.
In regards to you not liking him: (I hope you take this as a friendly comment) different teachers resonate with different people - maybe life will be more fun if you stick with videos of the people you like? Some people like Adyashanti, some like Rupert, some people like watching football. I hope everyone finds the resources that they need at any given time.
In regards to if it's absurd for him to even answer the question because “it is like saying you have spent several decades watching people eat chocolate, and therefore you know what the internal effect of eating chocolate is”:
If I want to study how useful a substance is for pain relief, I can make conclusions based on what people report, I don’t have to take the drug myself, or even know what it feels like to take the drug.
The assumption I’m making with my question is that people probably talk with Rupert about what has helped them in their journey towards nondual understanding, and a bunch of them probably tried psychedelics. Seems a reasonable assumption to me, but I could be wrong.
You might find this article I wrote about psychedelics and enlightenment interesting, in which I tried to review many points of view:
psychedelicsociety.org.uk/media/psychedelics-meditation-amp-enlightenment-part-2
And this playlist with more extensive discussion: ua-cam.com/play/PL7BoM7i7vUzuFIUzFAq2RAfjPXkKv7PQe.html
Yes. Many excellent mushroom adventures in my youth can not make up for my decision to simply practice.
It’s not about being addictive. In the spiritual context, one can definitely become dependent on using an exogenous chemical key to open the door and that can prevent people from working towards forging their own. It’s like, psychedelics are a trampoline, you can jump on it and go up real quick but you’ll always come down. There comes a time where if you really want to ascend, you have to get off the trampoline and build your ladder.
This is not a bad analogy at all. However, one must also take into account the fact that even if one jumps on a trampoline once, and becomes privy to a perspective "over the fence" (ie. beyond the veils of ordinary perception) that they did not have before, coming back down to the ground does not arrive that person at the same place psychospiritually as they were before. They return with new insight.
That is, they don't simply plop back to baseline. There is a transformation of consciousness that can happen in a relative "instant", which might otherwise require a lifetime of ladder-building, with no understanding of where that ladder was really taking one to.
Pragmatically speaking, almost no-one accesses the states that are routinely accessed via psychedelics by mere 'ladder building'... either they don't have the skills to build a ladder, thereby building a shoddy ladder that fails to support the journey to the peak, or they lack motivation due to (understandably) not really grokking the significance of where the ladder is going.
Ideally, as you may be alluding to... there may be a period of trampolining followed by ladder building (this is the case for great visionary leaders who end up transforming society). For some, it is enough to gain the perspective of trampolining, and to humbly integrate that new awareness into everyday life, without the need to build ladders [though I suppose one could argue this represents its own ladder of sorts, meshing the sacred and the mundane, or the sky and the earth (so to speak) as it does, even in humble ways].
Bow down to yourself for you are God ❤️🙏
Yes, careful though, the vast majority of people, including those who "think they are conscious", will "do that" and it's the ego :)
The relationships that people have with psychedelic medicine is started to corrupt the individual paths . I’m a huge fan of the medicine but these days at most, I go into ceremony twice a year. Psilocybin is my preference and I use it to release psycho physiological tension. The work is done in real time, the everyday, the mundane not in the peak experience when the default network has been taken off line, so we have a taste of the non dual. There’s no short cut, just a moment to moment application ❤
I'm confused as to why so many people ask Rupert, a man who has never taken psychedelics, what the value of psychedelics are on the spiritual path. He's not qualified to answer this question and he should refrain from doing so.
Hi Edward - thanks for your comment. Here is the response I wrote to a similar comment which you may feel is relevant to your curiosity:
"If I observe 10 people go up a mountain and 9 come back with gold, I don't need to go up the mountain myself, or be an expert in mountain climbing to guess that there is gold up there. I just need to know what gold is.
Rupert has spent decades around hundreds, (maybe thousands) of people seeking a nondual understanding. People will have shared with him their experiences - what is working for them and what isn't. He doesn't need experience with psychedelics to make general comments about what he has observed, what comes up in conversation, what people report, what his intuition around a given topic is.
But also, this isn't a scientific study, this a conversation amongst friends on a wide range of topics. It's ok if you happen to have had different experiences or disagree. I don't agree with everything Rupert, says, I don't think he is an 'authority.' I'm curious about his perspective on a wide range of issues, and these videos are for anyone else that feels the same.
I hope you find value in some of the videos, and if not, I hope you find value elsewhere!
Best of luck either way"
You might find these two videos interesting: ua-cam.com/video/I9YxUcI4uxg/v-deo.html
ua-cam.com/video/EiDkay1KZzg/v-deo.html
@@adventuresinawareness This may be true with regards to gold from a mountain and observing people who have experimented does give insight. However, you simply cannot describe adequately a psychedelic experience. It simply must be experienced. With regards to the fact that it's simply a conversation? It's a conversation being shared with thousands who rely quite a bit on Ruperts opinion. Nevertheless, I withdraw my comment that he shouldn't be discussing them at all. But he should always disclose that he's never experienced psychedelics. Thank you for your reply.
@@edward6768 thanks for your reply. I felt Rupert's answer it was nuanced and also inline with what I've observed working for the Psychedelic Society for the last 7 years. I have met 100s of people who take psychedelics. The vast majority do not transition to an abiding recognition of nonduality, although it does help some get a glimpse. To be fair, many don't even get a temporary glimpse that is clear enough to be useful in the future. That doesn't mean they don't get other benefits from the experience - but the question here was quite specific about non dual understanding.
Most other teachers I've researched say something similar, and many of them have taken psychedelics. I wrote an article for the Psychedelic Society on the subject a few years ago that some might find useful or interesting:
psychedelicsociety.org.uk/media/psychedelics-meditation-amp-enlightenment-part-2
By the way, I didn't know Rupert hadn't taken psychedelics - is he on record as saying this? I personally know researchers and teachers who take psychedelics, but for a variety of reasons won't say so publicly, so I generally don't bother asking, and in this case, I don't think it matter much.
Thanks again 🙏
@@edward6768 Respectfully, your claim is patently illogical and disproven in countless ways by every person on earth in our day-to-day experience with countless subject areas. I would respectfully submit he’s much more qualified than someone such as yourself to comment on the efficacy of psychedelics for achieving a stable realization of true nature because he already resides at the “destination” you and others (presumably) are seeking through the use of psychedelics. He doesn’t have to travel every path to a particular destination to recognize the destination itself or to share the commonality of experience with others at the same destination who have arrived via different paths.
If you have to give up experience to go to a non-experience (nirvana), which means you have to give up ALL experiences, including psychedelic experiences, then the activity of knowing and knowledge has to be let go of (left-brain).
They weren't part of his path, so he doesn't know much about them and doesn't advocate them. And/but, he's correct that eventually they should probably be left behind.
After learning the realities about spirituality this year, I sort of went there naked in my first ever intense lucid dream (which was inside another dream). Now trying to learn meditation to go there again, otherwise I’ll consider psychedelics as I’ve heard great things.
Be Here Now Practice - Mooji. Skip ahead to the real deal without all the special effects brother.
@@JonasAnandaKristiansson Mooji is a self-aggrandising shill, with reams and reams of testimonies online about his shady sexual antics and power trips with devoted female followers. Hardly the 'real deal'. Better try the psychedelic path (in a safe container, after doing thorough research and ensuring no medical contraindications) and get the direct experience, rather than going through a spiritually pontificating, posturing, egomaniacal middleman.
Beautifully said Rupert
Alone and sober. It is always good to have more experience but it is not a must. Jumping on the deep water without a contexts can be devastating. DMT will do the thing correctly but you will face yourself naked in an instant. Micro dosing of Amanita muscaria should be good enough and healthy. The key is the state of mind when you are fully sober. I have been on the path like since my childhood. Strange thing. All is around you. Try to attract it via your thoughts towards you and then deep it into yourself. It is flat plain filled with structure and colors, already present manifestation of consciousness. Erase it and you will see emptiness. It's nothing there. On this still plain things start to appear from the source. This is the break through. It speaks different language. I went there without any teachings, without any psychedelics. I know it was my higher self, but I listened. When you start doing it, those teachers, gurus, monks and fellow souls appear in you life accordingly. It is amazing. Being here and discerning those things is already a mile stone. We can't be closer to the truth because we are the truth.
This is a perfect teaching.
All the butthurt people in the comments.
I've been doing all kinds of psychedelics for more than 10 years and it's simply true that despite that they can show you something, at some point it has to be the "journey" from just yourself to yourself, without crutches, without a rocket that takes you there.
Rupert Doesn't need to be an expert on psychedelics or even have done them once to know that external substances and such can only give you a temporarily glimpse. Because you didn't do it yourself.
Cool. So… I guess eating food and breathing air, and being born from our mother’s wombs are all spiritually verboten now because they are tantamount to “relying on something outside of ourselves” 🥴 These arguments are so ridiculous. The “self” is never an isolated silo of self sufficiency.
Love and compassion to all unmet physical, mental, emotional needs and desires and love and compassion to all needs, desires that are being met in unhealthy, unconscious, subconscious, manipulative, fearful ways. Humans can meet needs, desires in conscious, healthy ways and then Humans will consciously create Heaven on Earth. My experience 🌎😘
The Buddha didn't have LSD.
Or kids, or working 40 hours a week, and all the other demands of western life….. I’m guessing 🤔
No they used something else, does exactly the same thing,
And I taught you what that was , it would blow your reailty upside down
@@KevinMannix-sf5zk 😂
@@Emlizardo Baaa, Baaaa, Baa, happy breeding to you
Non-ordinary states of consciousness, facilitated by organic matter, have been around for millennia. The fact that LSD (one of literally thousands of psychedelic compounds) was not yet synthesized during the age of the Buddha is a meaningless statement.
I am seeing a lot of anger, and defensiveness (and frankly spiritual ego) in the comments, I just wanted to give my two cents on this topic.
As someone whose spiritual journey started with psychedelics and as someone who still indulges in them for growth, healing and learning lessons I recognise the beauty and acceleration that can come with them, but I also see that they can only take you so far, firstly because we should beware of fools gold, but even beyond that because it is 'A method' of getting to self-realisation.
If you wish to go all the way on this path, recognise that all methods are traps, including holy scriptures, music, psychedelics and even meditation.
Psychedelics are an interesting one because as Maharaji once said to Ram Dass, they allow you to "Be with Christ, but you can only stay for a few hours" I recognise the truth in what Rupert is saying about needing to be naked and come face to face with the beloved without any methods. Just pure experience, I AM'ness.
Namaste, my fellow journeymen. I wish you ease of suffering on this path!
@@itsumzi I wish you ease of suffering too ❤️ thanks for your thoughtful comment 🙏🏻
Brothers in Chris; Blessings.
@@Ekam-Sat 𝗣𝘀𝘆𝗰𝗵𝗲𝗱𝗲𝗹𝗶𝗰 𝗰𝗼𝘂𝗹𝗱 𝗰𝗵𝗮𝗻𝗴𝗲 𝘁𝗵𝗲 𝘄𝗼𝗿𝗹𝗱 𝗶𝗳 𝗽𝗼𝗹𝗶𝗰𝗶𝗲𝘀 𝗮𝗿𝗲 𝗺𝗮𝗱𝗲 𝘁𝗼 𝗱𝗲𝗰𝗿𝗶𝗺𝗶𝗻𝗮𝗹𝗶𝘇𝗲 𝗶𝘁, 𝗹'𝗱 𝗽𝗼𝗶𝗻𝘁 𝘂 𝘁𝗼 𝘁𝗵𝗶𝘀 𝗿𝗲𝗽𝘂𝘁𝗮𝗯𝗹𝗲 𝗽𝘀𝘆𝗰𝗵 𝘀𝘁𝗼𝗿𝗲 𝗶 𝗼𝗯𝘁𝗮𝗶𝗻 𝗗𝗠𝗧,𝗜𝘀𝗱, 𝘀𝗵𝗿𝗼𝗼𝗺𝘀 𝗮𝗻 𝗼𝘁𝗵𝗲𝗿 𝗽𝘀𝘆𝗰𝗵𝘀.𝗧𝗵𝗲𝘆'𝗿𝗲 𝘀𝘂𝗽𝗲𝗿 𝗿𝗲𝗹𝗶𝗮𝗯𝗹𝗲 𝗮𝗻 𝘀𝗵𝗶𝗽 𝗱𝗶𝘀𝗰𝗿𝗲𝗲𝘁𝗹𝘆 𝗮𝗻𝘆𝘄𝗵𝗲𝗿𝗲
Psychedelics especially dmt are trampoline. Ones you get there you know the path. After the trip is easier to get there through meditation. Everything is much easier to understand.
Why he links substances to Eckhart or Bach? There is no link between them.
All three have the potential to ocassion a mystical experience or insight
i often see the absurdity of these proclamations against taking psychedelics by turning it around and saying the same thing about "meditation". Talking about it in that manner is entirely missing the point.
Exactly. If using psychedelics as a tool for self enquiring is “relying on something outside of yourself”, then so too is using learnt techniques of meditation. I mean, FFS, even eating is “relying on something outside of yourself”.
But then again, Rupert, if reality is all one, as you claim, then the psychedelics ARE yourself.
this wasn't a proclamation against taking psychedelics - how did you get that conclusion?
@@adventuresinawareness Ummm... the fact that Spira is literally suggesting to "give up" psychedelics.
I mean... if you want to be granular, he is claiming you should give them up IF you want to access non-dual self-realisation (utter nonsense IMO, but that's his claim). But Spira's implication is clear: give up psychedelics and gain eternal wisdom, or don't, and be an unenlightened dolt, swimming in the torrid soups of maya forever instead.
I mean, whether explicit or implicit (and it's both), you could hardly argue this ISN'T a proclamation against taking psychedelics.
@@odettegibbs2238 Perhaps the way we titled the video is making it seem more polemic than it is. The title is just to get people watching - the video is far more nuanced. I'm wondering if people are responding to the title without actually watching the video?
He acknowledges that psychedelics can be useful initially, similar to his favorite spiritual teachings and music.
This hardly seems like a proclamation against taking psychedelics!
He then goes on to say that for a genuine abiding understanding of nonduality, at some point we need to put all those things aside and look within.
This seems like common sense to me - if someone only understands something when in an altered state, when listening to music, when with their favorite teacher, then have they really understood?
He doesn't even say you have to give up psychedelics for all time. I'm sure he hasn't given up reading nondual books or listening to Bach.
It's just that endless books or altered states won't give you what unguided self-reflection will, in his opinion.
Makes sense to me, but each to their own I guess.
@@adventuresinawareness I totally understand that the UA-cam algo Gods tend to favour a polemic title, and that sometimes titles (almost of necessity these days) present a more inflammatory front than is actually contained in the content of a video :)
But at least as far as I am concerned, my comments certainly do not derive from the title alone, but from the content of Spira's own commentary, which I don't find "nuanced" in any way, shape or form. Quite the contrary.
It is by no means common sense - and in fact is actually tautological when applied to non-dual understanding - to suggest that someone 'give up' something that is (supposedly) "outside of oneself". A true non-dualist would understand that the psychedelics ARE comprised of the exact same consciousness that IS your self. Therefore, in an abiding nondual state, there is nothing ultimately "outside of oneself".
However, even if we are speaking not from the level of unity consciousness, but from the level of fragmented ego-consciousness (since that is effectively where spiritually-seeking humans begin); to make didactic proclamations that we must give up certain things that are "outside of ourselves", such as psychedelics or Bach, but to implicitly accept that we continue to rely upon other things, such as food, water, oxygen, and so on, that are no less "outside of ourselves" is simply biased conditioning.
It's a shallow position, that unjustifiably says "food approved", "psychedelics maligned". Both are equally "outside of ourselves", from the level of separated ego consciousness. (And both are equally within ourselves from the level of infinite unity consciousness.)
Spira's position is really no more interesting, valid or deep than Mr Hanky on South Park stating "Drugs are bad, m'kay".
And the idea that we must put certain (Spira-proscribed) things "aside" and "look within", presumes (baselessly) that psychedelics, or indeed Bach, are always distractions and never conduits to self realisation. It is true that anything can be a distraction in certain contexts - but this also include so-called "looking within".
I have seen many more people get spiritually side-tracked with constipated practices of "looking within" than I have seen people get distracted by psychedelics.
As mentioned in a previous comment here, you only have to look to studies such as the Good Friday experiment to see that even one psychedelic journey can have deeply abiding impacts on self realisation that last for decades, in a large proportion of people.
I'm sorry, but one session of 'looking within' will simply NOT have that same impact statistically (ie. in almost all people). I say this having run my own bricks and mortar school for the evolution of consciousness for more than a decade, and myself having taught thousands of students face to face who are on an awakening path.
Psychedelics, administered in intelligent contexts, while not for everyone, are simply a much more efficient and reliable path to non-dual realisation than simply "looking within". Most people are so mired by inner conditioning that "looking within", absent of any other framework, is merely a hall of mirrors, and generally much less revelatory than a psychedelic state. "Looking within" in a vaccuum absolutely won't lead to realisation at all, except in the most fractional of minority cases (and even then, I would venture, something had probably primed that person to be looking with a particularly benefactory lens, or to be open in just the right way to new perception). Something is needed to pierce the veil for the vast majority of people.
In fact, it is usually those who eschew psychedelics without having ever experienced them that I find completely incapable of deep self-realisation. They mistake shallowness and dissociation for "calm" and "stability", but actually their subconscious being has never truly been encountered.
In the same manner as they reject the depth of opportunity for mind-manifestation that psychedelics present, they concomitantly tend to reject the messy and inconvenient truths of their being (and the being of others), in favour of a goody-two-shoes version of slightly smug and smarmy spiritual dogma.
In my own experience, I have found they are the most likely to - like Spira - make blanket commentary on what a person must or must not do (ie. must "give up") in order to be "spiritually awake". The great irony being that they are in no position to even be commenting on the matter, as they are ignorant of what lies on the other side of what they refuse to encounter due to (typically) their own mental projections, conditioning and - I'll just say it - personal cowardice and lack of spiritual courage.
Again, I am astonished that anyone thinks Spira is a "realised" person.
To me, he spouts simply the most boring and trite platitudes, that reveal very little depth, and a lot of ingrained dogmatism.
That said, in order for my own position to remain consistent, I duly acknowledge that Spira - and his trite and boring proclamations - is/are an aspect of the totality of consciousness that is ultimately myself (and, I venture, yourself) at the deepest level. So, yeah, Spira's spiritual constipation and insufferable all-knowing attitude is also a part of me, too ;) I get it. Ah, the great paradoxes of non-duality.
Psychedelics make you feel like your tripping. Religion makes you feel like your fallen. Literature makes it feel like you stumbled. We are at a loss for words and blind to the reality that raised us. Catching our balance has become a dance that is broken. Jesus catches us by our feet because we are head over heels for life. But they need washing due to not watching where you were stepping.
Brilliant! Love it,
What’s the reference at 1:25.. ´nassaganata?? ‘
Nisargadatta. A spiritual teacher.
Is UA-cam censoring commentary here, or is it you, Adventures in Awareness? I have had a number of well-considered comments on this thread censored - why? Are others having a similar experience?
Hi Odette, I sometimes remove comments that are obviously spam or go against the community guidelines for respectful communication. I don't believe I've removed any of yours, (actually I wrote quite lengthy replies to some of your comments.)
The order in which comments appears seems to change quite a bit, so maybe your comments show up in places you don't expect. I can see there are some further down.
There is a chance a comment got deleted if was a reply to a comment that was deleted for going against community guidelines, but I don't think that was the case, but there doesn't seem to be a way to check deleted comments. If I inadvertently deleted something you wrote I apologise, but as mentioned, I don't think this was the case.
@@adventuresinawareness Thanks for replying. If that's the case, then it seems to me that UA-cam must be deleting my comments. Very odd. Nothing in them that should go against "community guidelines". Though who even knows what the criteria for those are anyway. They seem almost entirely arbitrary. It's a worrying trend.
@@odettegibbs2238 maybe if a post looks like it is advocating psychedelics it gets picked up by AI bot moderators and deleted... don't know... I see lots of comments pro-psychedelic so could be something else. I do see several of your comments below, do you think many were deleted?
Well, eventually, you have to also give up giving things up.
Lol. Honestly, this shows you have more understanding of nonduality than Spira has in his left thumb 😂 (I'm serious!)
I'm kind of surprised how many of the comments seem to respond to this like its authoritarian demands. Like maybe after 20 years plant some mushrooms for someone else and spend more than a weekend sober, if not in this lifetime in the next. Its a take it or leave it, and Im not ready for this, but who the fuck cares.
I guess it isn’t wrong to just say instead “Give everything up”….
If listening to spira for 15 years haven't worked you might wanna try something different!
Mark Rylance could play this geeza in a movie
The Penultimate Question * When you get it you know the Answer **
This seems naive (perhaps because Mr Spira has never taken a classic psychedelic-has he?): unlike reading Meister Eckhart or Ramana Maharshi, true psychedelics (LSD, mescaline, psilocybin, DMT) provide a __direct__ experience, which may then be attempted to be put into words (Eckhart’s, Maharshi’s, …). In the language of Tibetan Buddhism, psychedelics may (no guarantees) provide “example wisdom”, which may be a useful part of an ongoing upaya (skillful means) to realization in everyday life.
Exactly. I am astonished that Spira is taken to be some sort of "realised" person, when his analyses and general attitude reveal such utter naievete and shallowness. But all with the pomp and posture of being in a position to speak on matters he knows nothing about.
Why on earth do we let these "teachers" become arbiters for what is "correct".
We don’t. He’s just sharing his opinion, which to me comes across as ragingly uneducated, presumptuous and lacking in nuance. To others, who want to get googoo-eyed at someone like Spira (usually due to their own lack of personal depth of engagement with the subject matter, and lack of self worth, resulting in projection of guru status onto another)… well, that’s their prerogative I guess 🤷🏻♀️
YOU are truth,you can’t get it from any book,person,guru,spiritual teacher,look at the difference between what thought says about reality,and how you find reality to actually be?
I'm curious which part of this video (if any) you thought made Rupert an arbiter for what is correct?
He's just sharing an opinion, informed by several decades of sharing perspectives and observing people in communities that seek a non-dual understanding of life. Doesn't make him an authority, but for some it makes his opinion worth taking into account.
@@adventuresinawareness “spiritual teachers “ are nothing more than frauds,and they make their money off the BELIEF that the truth is something you need to be taught .
It’s bloomingly obvious he is not an expert on psychedelics. Perhaps someone like Martin Ball would be a better authority in the realms of psychedelics and nonduality.
Honestly, I am curious why you deigned to ask Spira this question at all, given that (at least prima facie) asking in the first place implies to a certain degree that you assume he has the requisite knowledge base to have anything substantively valid to say on this?
I mean, it’s like asking what being multiorgasmic is to someone who has no sex life, and maybe had a weak orgasm once…
I dont get the hype. Taking them was completely meaningless and non impactful in my experience.
Sure, it can be fun, but youre deluded if you think putting yourself in that state of mind is useful.
Sooo... you had a shallow experience, and therefore you project your own shallow experience onto the state of others, and describe states of consciousness that you clearly never experienced as "deluded". This is like someone climbing a kiddie's jungle gym, then not understanding why people may find the experience of summiting Mt Everest to be sublime or benefactory in any way (though, admittedly, not without risks and challenges).
@odettegibbs2238 you sound like every other cult member.
@@Diomedes99 Hardly. You made a reductive and ill-educated comment, which projected the shallowness of your personal encounters with altered states onto others. You’re just egoically aggrieved that someone pointed out that obvious fact.
Indeed it’s ironic that you project onto others the slur of “cult” mentality, when your own commentary embodies the exact essence of cultishness - assuming that your own limited experiences and belief system applies to all others.
To be clear, I take no issue with you suggesting that you didn’t find psychedelics useful personally. That’s your prerogative. But to project your own limited experience of shallowness and meaninglessness onto the rest of humanity at large is the exact thing cult members do. So no so sir, if anyone is culty, it’s you.
bitte keine KI-Übersetzung.
belassen Sie lieber die Sprache im Original und unterlegen sie mit Untertiteln.
I think he’s saying the exact opposite to that
What a ridiculous title… as if anyone had to “give up” psychedelics… they’re not addictive (except for Ketamine… apparently… which I don’t understand… it’s as profound as any other classical psychedelic) and the experience is typically an introspective 8-12 hours of both elated, and difficult, ebbs and flows… hardly something someone would ever need to ‘give up’ as the experience itself isn’t an ‘easy’ one, as for instance, cannabis or alcohol are… or perhaps that’s too revealing 😉 then again, Rupert is right in what he says… as a great man said, at one time, “once you understand the message, hang up the phone” so to speak - but until then, keep exploring 😉😏
What I understood is that with psychedelic use, it shouldn’t be the only method you use. I read that a lot, if not most, Tibetan monks have tried substances like LSD. And in fact it was the catalyst for a lot of them becoming monks.
But they are not habitual users. The drug was the catalyst but ultimately they understand that the drugs are just that, external catalysts. They can reach the same place naturally and that is the path they undertake.
He is just saying that you don’t need to rely on psychs for growth, as that can lead to abuse (there ARE people who get addicted to LSD because they think it’s necessary for their growth); and that you can and should learn how to experience psychedelic like growth without the use of external forces.
They are psychologically addictive. Many people stop using them but they just make them a hobby and community which is just a different kind of addiction. Nothing wrong of course with hobbies and community. These are great aspects of life. The issue is that people engaging with psychedelics think they are practicing spiritual development or worse.. imagine they can teach!
It’s absolutely not a ridiculous title and the fact you so strongly think it is ridiculous just shows that you don’t really understand Rupert’s point and why serious people don’t use psychedelics when pursuing a spiritual path.
Agree grossly misunderstood
Respectfully I thought it was "once you get a message, you DONT hang up the phone" as in once you know something is on the other end, you don't just walk away from the communication...but what do I know also
❤
Please BE WARNED - continued use of psychedelics beyond "enlightenment experiences" can have damaging consequences. These events cause a burst of neuroplasticity during which the brain rewires itself. The presence of mind-altering substances can negatively impact this process. Take it from one who knows
Indeed. And even more the “enlightenment experience” are only counterfeit ones, at best useful as glimpses, but usually turn into self inflation. Dangerous stuff.
@dionysis_ A "counterfeit experience " does not produce the same neurological effect. They merely inflate the Ego rather than render it impotent
@@agedcorsair6707 I would say the peak state experience itself may be real enough but people who operate predominantly at lower stages of development are especially unable to integrate them in a beneficial manner resulting in any of a whole array of psycho-spiritual issues including but lot limited to ego inflation, psychosis, delusion etc. There are of course myriad factors involved in regards to the specifics of the issues that such an individual may face.
@josephgirgis6735 I would largely agree. The traditional "does and don'ts" of most spiritual traditions have the effect of purifying and strengthening the nervous system in preparation for that peak experience. Most eschew psychedelics because they add another unpredictable factor
@@agedcorsair6707 spot on!
Everyone in the comments are so triggered lol. Maybe there really is some merit to "giving up" psychedelics after all
I don't see people being triggered. I see people calling out Spira's monumental BS.
@odettegibbs2238 bro if you get triggered by Rupert then its because you see him as above you as someone with authority over you. If you see him as a person sharing his truth then I don't see why you'd be triggered like everyone here is. Literally in this video he is telling you to trust yourself and let go of needing knowledge from teachers
I literally just said nobody is triggered by Rupert. They are calling out his BS. There is a difference. So your position is incoherent, brah.
If he gets to share “his truth” (which is blatantly and profoundly uneducated on the subject matter he pontificates about), then why are you triggered that other people are also sharing their “truths” in response? Bro, who hurt you?
@odettegibbs2238 I know you said no one is triggered but that doesn't take away the fact that everyone is triggered 😂
Nope. That’s just your way of using an ad hominem because you are a Spira fan boy, but you don’t have any legitimate arguments to counter people’s spot on refutations of his presumptuous and ill educated nonsense.
L.S.D. 👌
"just try shrooms/ayahuasca/weed bro"...all I needed to do was observe the LIFE RESULTS of the people who explored these things to say no thanks.
So… Aldous Huxley, Ram Dass, Alan Watts… all dolts I guess … 🙄
I was pretty messed up from being in a car full of fumes as a child, and kind of kept that going as an adult. I'm definitely an example of someone who ran head first into pain like it was actually searching for truth. I'm actually exactly the kind of person this is referencing.
I've also seen people stop taking LSD because it was hard for them to find themselves empathising with people in their life they had been treating badly without even realising.
Others just find it a waste of time and would rather be learning a skill or being productive. It's not for everyone!
@@odettegibbs2238dont forget Stan Groff